21 - From Brain Fog to Business Strategy: A Host Update with Steph Pajonas & Danica Favorite

In this episode of Brave New Bookshelf, hosts Steph Pajonas and Danica Favorite share personal experiences, including Steph's journey through brain fog and the strategic use of AI tools to enhance productivity. The discussion covers key topics such as democratizing publishing, ethical AI usage, and the importance of treating writing as a business. With insights into upcoming collaborations and industry events, this episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to navigate the intersection of creativity and technology. Visit our website https://bravenewbookshelf.com to view the full episode notes, links and apps mentioned in the episode, and the full transcript.

[00:00:00] Welcome to Brave New Bookshelf, a podcast that explores the fascinating intersection of AI and authorship. Join hosts, Steph Pajonas and Danica Favorite, as they dive into thought provoking discussions, debunk myths, and highlight the transformative role of AI in the publishing industry.

**Steph Pajonas:** Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Brave New Bookshelf. I'm Steph Pajonas, CTO and COO of the Future Fiction Academy, where we teach authors how to use AI in any part of their business. Isn't it funny? Sometimes I almost forget the names of my children, the where I work.

**Danica Favorite:** Right,

**Steph Pajonas:** I'm constantly calling my dog by my daughter's name. It's just, it's all a big mess up in my head. I'm always with my lovely co host Danica Favorite. Danica, how are you doing today? 

Better. 

**Danica Favorite:** Thanks. Yes. Well, you know, brain fog is real. COVID brain is real. I think that you are definitely this is just more reason why you use AI, [00:01:00] right?

**Steph Pajonas:** Yes, it is. It is, we're doing a little duo show here today with just me and Danica because last month in September, I celebrated my 20 year wedding anniversary with my husband by going to Japan for like two weeks. And it was. Fantastic. It was absolutely beautiful there. Although I was just telling Danica, it was unseasonably warm.

That's what they kept saying to us in every city we went to. Oh, I'm so sorry. It's, it's unseasonably warm. Yes, it was 95 degrees in Kyoto when I was there. Oh my God. It was so, so hot, so hot in Japan while I was there. So we went, we had a great time. We flew into Tokyo. Tokyo, we took the train to Osaka, we spent some days there, did a little day trip to Kyoto, and then we took the train to Fukuoka, which is a bit south on the next main island and then from there we flew back to Tokyo, spent some time there, and then flew home.

And on the plane ride home, I heard a [00:02:00] gentleman behind me clearing his throat over and over and over and over and over again. And I was thinking, this man is going to make me sick. And that is exactly, unfortunately what happened. I returned home and a few days later I came down with COVID. I didn't realize it was COVID.

To begin with, I took the test came back negative and then a sinus infection crept in. So I went to urgent care and they're like, Oh, but we're going to test you now for COVID too. I'm like, yeah, sure. Fine. Go ahead. Do it. Swab me. And then I should have known that I had COVID because while I was waiting in the room, the doctor came in to see me and she had on like a face shield and a mask and she had on like a, it looked like a hazmat suit.

She's like, you have COVID. Oh, so I spent a week or so in isolation and socially distancing from my family and getting over the sinus infection, which is probably why I sound a little bit congested. [00:03:00] And, I was glad that I did a lot of editing of the Brave New Bookshelf before I left on this trip, because I had everything edited all the way up through our last week. 

We had Jill Cooper on and it was all edited and ready to go before I left for Japan. And then I came home and got sick. And I'm really glad that I did all that because there was no way I would have been able to do that while I was sitting in bed and, just watching TV constantly.

So I'm really glad to be back. I'm glad to be somewhat mostly healthy again. Although I feel like the brain fog has layered on, on top of the other brain fog that I had from COVID. And as many of you know, I came to AI because of COVID brain fog and because of long COVID. So I'm really hoping that some of it alleviates over the next couple of months.

And I start to get my brain back a little bit, but I'm once again very grateful for AI because I've been using it since I've been home, been working on lesson plans for Future Fiction Academy. I've been working on [00:04:00] understanding some of the new models, the 01 strawberry model and whatnot, and it's been a lot of fun and not too taxing, which is one of the reasons why I love AI, right?

I mean, that's what, that's why Danica loves it too, right?

**Danica Favorite:** Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. 

**Steph Pajonas:** I don't want to take over this whole conversation with my health, but it gives you an idea of where we're at, what we're doing. And Danica was also very busy while I was gone in Japan. She was at Novelist Inc conference, which we call NINC.

N I N C. So, I was hoping she would fill us in on some of the stuff that she did there, too. So, what have you been up to, Danica, and how was NINC? 

**Danica Favorite:** Yeah, yeah, I think was great. So, intros. I think we forgot that, but that's okay. I'm Danica Favorite and I am the Community Manager at PublishDrive and PublishDrive helps authors distribute their books to the largest worldwide audience possible. But we've also got some really neat tools using AI to help optimize your metadata and [00:05:00] book sales. And spoiler alert, we have some really cool stuff coming up that I can't wait to announce

**Steph Pajonas:** We're excited! 

**Danica Favorite:** Yes. And also we have a really cool royalty splitting tool. So a lot of great things that PublishDrive does. And one thing I will announce because I can is right now, so we're recording this October 14th, but it's coming out, what, the 16th? No, 17th. But anyway, from now until November 4th, all annual plans for distribution at PublishDrive are 50 percent off. So, just go to publishdrive. com. Sign up for any annual plan and you will get 50 percent off through November 4th. 

We have a lot of other cool tools. You get to try everything for free. Even if you didn't want to commit to the 50 percent off plan. All of our tools start for free. Your first one is free, our metadata generator, which is AI you get your first book metadata for free.

[00:06:00] So that's super cool. And part of why I wanted to share that is, like I said, we have some other cool new AI stuff that is coming down the pipeline. I believe they're going to launch the beta version at Frankfurt Book Fair, so I can't take that thunder away. But, oh boy, I'm so excited. 

Another cool thing that I think we can kind of announce is that FFA and Publish Drive, we're going to be working together even more. So excited about that because what they're going to do is through their future publishing press. Is that right?

**Steph Pajonas:** Future Fiction Press. Mm 

**Danica Favorite:** Future Fiction Press they are going to be using PublishDrive to distribute their books and they're going to be showing it live through their classes, through their videos, how they're using PublishDrive to distribute books, which I think is really cool because we're going to put it all into one process.

Make the book, boom, do all the stuff with the book and then boom, distribute the book and then track your sales data. do sales [00:07:00] promotions, all the stuff published drive does all the stuff they do. So I'm really excited about that.

**Steph Pajonas:** I am too. I'm excited about this partnership because I think that the two of us, we have the same vision for the future of publishing. 

And so I, I'm, I'm really excited about this collaboration. I 

**Danica Favorite:** Yeah. Yeah. And I'll just use Elizabeth Ann West's name in vain here since she is also our partner in crime, who's not on the podcast, but I know as soon as she gets back from Frankfurt, we will have her on the show to talk about her experiences there.

But, between the three of us, we really have this vision that publishing should be easier than it is. I was just telling somebody the story last night of how I got started in publishing and I got started back in the dinosaur age. And really like, you know, dinosaurs roam the ground.

**Steph Pajonas:** Dinosaurs are awesome. We 

**Danica Favorite:** I know. And here we are full circle. I'm working with dinosaurs again. I remember back in the day when I [00:08:00] got started my whole publishing history and I'm sorry, this isn't what we were going to talk about, but this is what we're talking about, but I remember when I got started.

So I was one of those kids who was writing ever since I was a little girl. And my best friend, she also was a little writer. We had a little notebooks that we carried around, you know, a little three ring. I don't know if you guys did this, but at the end of the school year, when you got your school supplies back and you had those half filled notebooks, those were gold to us, we would beg our schoolmates, please, can we have that?

And they're like, what the heck do you want that for? Oh, we got stories to write. And we would, we would fill those notebooks.

And her mother was an author. Again, back in the stone age where the only route was trad and the gatekeeping was even worse. I remember this woman working and working and working to write a book and trying and trying to sell a book and I can remember the tears over the rejection letters and she wrote fantasy. So that [00:09:00] was even a harder market to break into. Right?

But the thing I remember most is her family was so poor, like they were the poorest family I knew. Again, dinosaur ages, they were so poor that my friend and I would go to the park to play, but we would also bring bags with us to collect aluminum cans. Back in the day, you would collect the aluminum cans at the park and then you would take them to the grocery store. The grocery store would weigh them and then give you money for the aluminum cans. And that was enough money that we would collect enough to buy enough food that her family would have dinner that night. 

So to me, I always equated being an author with being poor. And so I didn't go to school to be an author. And I would laugh at my friends who are English majors who wanted to be authors. I'm like, yeah, yeah. Good luck with that. Welcome to a life of poverty. So I didn't go to school to be an author.

I figured eventually someday when I had made my money doing other things, I would write on the side for fun, and if I got published, I got published, and then when I [00:10:00] retired, then I could be really serious about being an author and making money writing books. 

**Steph Pajonas:** Sure, sure.

**Danica Favorite:** Because that was the path. Like, that was the path I knew to being an author growing up. Or you could be a journalist and whatnot, and I don't want to bother with that. Like, I can't write an article. I need a book to express my thoughts.

**Steph Pajonas:** Yeah, I was never into journalism or nonfiction either. I was always into fiction, so 

**Danica Favorite:** Yeah, yeah. Then I became a stay at home mom with a baby and none of my friends were stay at home moms. All my friends worked. I didn't know anybody and I was kind of bored. I love babies, but they really don't do a lot. I love holding babies. Seriously. If you have a baby and you see me, please let me hold your baby. But then I get to give it back when it cries or it poops, it's diaper and stuff, right?

**Steph Pajonas:** Yep. Yep. 

**Danica Favorite:** So that's when I started to write again. I still was doing like the hobby writing on the side, writing in my notebook, blah, blah, blah. I went online and I discovered the e Harlequin forums. I [00:11:00] started talking to people online on these online forums, learning how to write and learning how to write for Harlequin, which was always a dream of mine. And yay, dream accomplished. I I've done 19 books with Harlequin, so, that's feels pretty good.

I didn't have to wait until retirement for that. 

**Steph Pajonas:** That's great. 

**Danica Favorite:** I know like some people in the indie world are like, Oh, Harlequin, back then, that was like the democratization of publishing because anyone could get in that way. As long as you wrote something appropriate for Harlequin. Then of course the indie revolution came on. And I remember when indie started and people, and Hey, I was one of the gatekeepers. Sorry. I apologize for that. I, I will never stop apologizing for that because I was on RWA boards and boards of other writing organizations that worked really hard to gatekeep indies because they were so afraid that these low quality books were going to take over and the market was going to be flooded with garbage and what happened? The quality rose to the top and the garbage stayed at the bottom and [00:12:00] now, coming into AI AI has even democratized that even more and I know people, oh, the AI garbage. No, it's going to be the same thing. The garbage is going to go to the bottom and the quality stuff is going to come to the top.

And I'll be real honest. Like the stuff that Steph and Elizabeth are teaching and writing, that's quality stuff. Like those are good stories. I mean, I get mad sometimes watching Elizabeth's videos and she's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, and she's like, okay, I've got to go. I'm like, no, you can't go finish the book.

I'm going to know what happens next. 

**Steph Pajonas:** Well, you'll get to read it eventually.

**Danica Favorite:** Eventually, absolutely. Thanks to our partnership together, you guys will publish it and we'll distribute it and it's going to be fantastic. All that story to say is now is easier than ever to become a published author. I'm totally here for all the AI stuff and making it easier for authors, because I think that.

The gatekeeping is still there just in different ways. And part of that gatekeeping is financial. It is, do you have all of the right tools? You [00:13:00] know, like people, someone was telling me about the formatting software they use. Well, number one, I can't use it because it's Mac and I don't have a Mac. I used to hire someone to do that for me, and that was expensive. PublishDrive has a free formatting tool, so that anyone can get the book formatted. Now, that's just one more way, one more barrier to entry people don't have. 

With the AI writing, it's that same thing where, yes, you need to be able to write a book. We can say, okay, here's my weird blah, blah, blah. Help me make sense of it. And AI can do that, which is phenomenal, because I don't know about you guys, but I have a million ideas in my head. Like, this is a very small head and it's full of stuff. And AI helps me get that out. 

I feel like every move to democratize it and everyone who wants to write a book, everyone who wants to be an author can be an author. In terms of the talent required, you still have to know how to write a book. You still have to know the writing terms and all of that. But I love [00:14:00] that it's becoming more and more accessible to everyone.

**Steph Pajonas:** I agree. This is one of the things I love about this new paradigm that we're living in, right? We're knocking down these barriers to entry and we're going to let the actual content shine and do the work. It's one of the things I love about where we're going with all of this. 

**Danica Favorite:** Absolutely. And I think too, you know, you go back to this idea of, well, is it real writing? Blah, blah, blah. You hear these debates. Steph and I are beyond that debate. We still hear that negativity. We still hear people saying, AI, it's bad, or it's all that garbage.

I don't even want to deal with that. Except to say that if you're one of those people, and you are putting people down for using AI, please know that's bullying. I'm just going to keep saying it over and over. I remember what happened with indie publishing and I remember how poorly those indie authors were treated.

And I don't think I ever treated an indie author [00:15:00] badly, but I certainly was on a committee that was deciding the gatekeeping. And that's where I really regret that. Because everyone deserves that opportunity to tell their story in a way that feels good to them. And if you're going to judge them for that, or be mean to them for that, or post nasty memes about that, I'm seeing a lot more of the nasty memes. Stop it because it isn't helping. All it's doing is bullying someone and hurting them. That's not okay.

**Steph Pajonas:** It's not okay. In the past couple of weeks, we've seen AI blacklists come about, people are gathering names and their URLs of websites and putting them into Google spreadsheets and spreading that around. And look, I got to caution people, like, don't get involved in this. Don't do this kind of thing because if you put the wrong person's name in there.

You don't know all the specifics about what's going on. This is going to land in some lawsuits. This is going [00:16:00] to get people sued. There are people out there that think that they're doing the right thing by pointing out people using AI because they, they think of it as an ethical issue and it's not something that they agree with. But when in essence, though, this is really none of their business, whatever tool you may be using to help you write your book, to market your book, to put a cover on that book, to do any of these kinds of things.

It's really nobody's business, but your own. You're the business owner, you use whatever tools you need to do in order to get your book written and sold to all the people out there that want to read it. We still, as always caution people to use AI in an ethical manner. So you're going to do that, but like simply making covers and using it to brainstorm or write first drafts or edit your books or whatever the, Those are all ethical ways to use AI.

There's,

**Danica Favorite:** Yeah, absolutely. 

**Steph Pajonas:** I'm getting, really tired of seeing [00:17:00] this negativity going around because it is really only hurting your fellow authors. And these are people in your community who you can be going to for help or support, and you're pushing them away. And you're causing great harm to them and their business.

So let's move past this and everybody let's use the tools that you want to use. Don't use things you don't want to use, and everybody get back to work.

**Danica Favorite:** right. Well, that's the thing. I think we were joking about this in one of our forums where we were talking about how these people on their witch hunts. They're spending time on a witch hunt that they should be spending time writing. Like, use that time to write your books. Use that time to promote your books. If you have time to worry about what another author is doing that you don't agree with, you have too much time on your hands. Go

**Steph Pajonas:** made too much time on your hands. 

**Danica Favorite:** And the other thing about some of these witch hunts, like it's really hilarious because I saw this in a group and I generally don't like reading any of the posts.

I don't read the comments. I pretty [00:18:00] much hide all this stuff. But I happen to be reading the comments on a post the other day and they're like, well, if they use AI for this, you can assume they're using AI for that. No, you can't.

So Steph has the AI for Authors writing group, and I'm one of the moderators, and and please join. If you are AI positive, on Facebook, we have AI Writing for Authors group,

And we have people all the time, I use AI for this, but not this. I like AI for this, but not this. Everyone has their own yes and no to what they're going to use AI for. So you can't assume. Everyone has a different process. 

And the other thing I'm going to tell you is, Don't assume the content you see is actually AI. I think in the beginning AI days, it was super easy to tell what was and wasn't AI.

Now it's getting more and more difficult and it's hilarious to me to see where people are wrong. Just really keep that in mind.

[00:19:00] And what you are judging in someone else's writing is completely inappropriate and not your position to do so.

**Steph Pajonas:** I agree. And especially since more and more of this industry is taking on AI pretty much every day, right? Still none of the major top tier publishers have said that they're not going to use AI. And several have already come out that they are, and as more and more of this industry takes on these tools, it's more and more important for authors to understand how they work, how to use them if they want to what their publisher, if they decide to go traditionally published and not self published, what their publisher is going to be using AI for in their process, all of these things.

It's just important to be educated on this topic and understand what's going on. And to segue back into our original topic idea, more of these author organizations are now confronting the use of AI. We've heard from Authors Guild recently [00:20:00] about AI and we've seen it coming up on panels at author conferences.

Danica and Elizabeth will be speaking at AuthorNation next month. It is next month. Oh my 

**Danica Favorite:** Yeah. It

**Steph Pajonas:** It's coming up so quickly. It's coming up really quickly. And then there was some talk about this also at Novelist Inc, which is where Danica was while I was in Japan last month. 

**Danica Favorite:** Yeah. So, yeah, I think it was interesting because it was really cool to see how many people were also more curious. I did sit and watch the AI panel. I was not on the panel, but Elizabeth spoke and what I saw was just the breadth of what people are doing with AI. Yes, some people are using it to write. Other people are saying, no, I'm not going to use it to write. I'm going to use it for marketing. I'm going to use it for this piece or that piece. It's really still a smorgasbord of what works for me, what [00:21:00] works in my process and how do I want to adopt it?

One of the things I noticed is just how much misinformation there is. Even one of the panelists was like spouting off about something and we're all sitting there going, no, that's wrong. And of course, Elizabeth did correct that person. But it's so important to check and double check the information against what's really happening. None of the memes that you're seeing about AI are true. I have yet to see a correct meme about AI. So if you're getting your information from memes. It's wrong.

**Steph Pajonas:** yeah, you should probably just pass by that one.

**Danica Favorite:** Yeah. It's just like the political memes, right? We know they're not true. Stop it. Stop it with the AI memes. When somebody's telling you about AI, consider that source. Have they really studied it? Because most of the people on this anti AI bandwagon, they literally don't know what they're talking about.

I mean, it's so funny. And I won't anymore because I think both Steph and I have seen the [00:22:00] futility of it. You can't argue with them. And their facts are wrong. So do the fact checking like really find out. 

And that's what I found at NINC was there was a lot more people who've said, you know, well, AI is not my thing. Ooh, but maybe maybe I should take a better look. Not so much cause I want to use it, but maybe because there's actually some merit to it or perhaps my facts are wrong. 

One of the conversations I had, I won't say with who, but it was a publishing figure and I was talking to them about AI and this person pulled out a notebook and just started really taking notes because a lot of the stuff this person was hearing from me was stuff that they hadn't heard before. And they were like, wait, really? This person also is having conversations with Elizabeth. Suddenly the light bulb went on where the person was like, Hey, wait, I didn't know that. 

If you're looking at AI from a standpoint of fear go start educating [00:23:00] yourself. And again, Not from the memes, not from all these anti AI people. When an anti AI person comes up with a perspective that I haven't heard, I absolutely do the homework. I am going to read about, okay, wait, huh. Did that lawsuit say that? Okay, I want to read this lawsuit because a lot of times people say, oh, there was this lawsuit and the lawsuit said, blah, blah, blah, that must mean X, Y, Z. Well, you're taking someone else's summary. Have you gone and read that lawsuit for yourself?

And honestly, I think you should. 

**Steph Pajonas:** I see a lot of bad interpretations of lawsuits and what they mean. And I also hear a lot of bad data too. There's lots of very old and bad data about the, the energy consumption of AI. And that is even getting better month after month. I also hear constantly, Well, AI hallucinates. You can't trust anything that it says. But you know what? That was very true last year. And it's just not as true this year. Each of the companies have been working hard to bring down hallucinations so that it does not happen all [00:24:00] that often anymore.

And I'm seeing it less and less and less every day. And then I'll see the same tired stuff about AI images. Oh, just look for the extra fingers on the hand or look for the weird shadows. Guys, guys, that's almost all gone now. I can't even remember the last time I generated something in mid journey and I got like extra fingers on a hand.

I mean, sure. There were other things, maybe like some artifacts in places that I wasn't happy with and I would regenerate or change or edit myself, but I mean, I haven't seen. I haven't seen a lot of these things in a long time, whether it's hallucinations or just bad generations with like extra limbs and whatnot.

I'm seeing it less and less and less. You cannot say, that any of these things are going to be around even in six months or a year. Everything is working fast and moving so quickly towards the future that, that all of this stuff is going to be a figment of the past at some [00:25:00] point.

We need to be constantly educating, constantly looking at the newest data. You cannot rely on things like rumors and hearsay from other people who are not using these tools all the time.

We're using these tools all the time. So we're getting the chance to see just how much they're evolving and how good they're getting. Everybody needs to be on top of this information as much as they can, right? Of course you should be writing your books probably and not necessarily out there doing research on AI all the time like we do.

People like me and Danica and Elizabeth and the Future Fiction Academy and all these people and the people in the AI Writing for Authors group we're putting that information out there all the time. So you can just like skim it, you can know it, you don't have to be diving deep on any topic unless it's something you're super interested in.

So keep these people in your orbit so that you can learn from them and hopefully we can all get better at this education part of the business because this is super, super important.

**Danica Favorite:** Yeah, I totally agree. And, [00:26:00] if you're not interested in AI, if you don't want to use AI for your process, that's okay. And you don't need to spend hours upon hours researching AI, but just don't diss people who are using it. Don't sit there and be down on it and share those memes that are misinformation and things you don't know about because you haven't taken the time to research it. 

I certainly am not going to sit here and tell quantum physicists how to do their job. Like, I don't know anything about quantum physics. I tried to read a book about it once, and I didn't understand beyond the first page.

**Steph Pajonas:** Now, me neither. Me neither. I consider myself a pretty smart person and yet I was like, Oh, this is, I don't understand any of this.

**Danica Favorite:** yeah, and like, so I'm not going to go and say to somebody, okay, this is how you do your job. This is really important as writers. to not tell writers how to do their jobs. I think that I was really pleased at NINC to see a little more open mindedness. That's what we have to realize is that just be [00:27:00] open minded and willing to learn. I am absolutely open to a negative perspective on AI, that is true and grounded in research. And grounded in fact. I want to know those things and I want to know those cautions. You know, open mindedness goes all ways, but unfortunately the negative that I'm hearing that Steph is hearing that Elizabeth is hearing. It's all false. And

just another cool thing , when we were at NINC, Elizabeth was invited to speak at Frankfurt on AI specifically about fiction writing. It wasn't about how to use it for marketing or how to use it conceivably or whatever. She's specifically talking about fiction writing and you have to understand the Frankfurt book fair is the largest book fair and gathering of publishing industry professionals in the world.

And that is so cool. So I don't know if any of our listeners will be at [00:28:00] Frankfurt, but please seek Elizabeth out. Please say hello. Publish Drive is also going to be there. We have a booth. So please go say hi to our people and say, Hey, we heard you were here from the podcast. I think that would totally blow their mind.

**Steph Pajonas:** Yeah, that would be great. Yeah, Elizabeth is on her way now. She arrived in Paris today and she's getting on the train tomorrow to Germany. So, 

**Danica Favorite:** So cool.

**Steph Pajonas:** is exciting. It is exciting to see, to see these larger places that are willing to talk more about AI. It is, especially in business, it is important to understand AI and know how to put it into your process.

And this is another reason why I'm so adamant about authors learning this sort of thing because, authors they're writing their books. But like the moment your book is done and it's ready to be packaged and put into a cover and made into paperbacks and ebooks and then be sold, it becomes a business, right? We're all part of this business. Now, whether you farm [00:29:00] that out to traditional publishers or you're self published, you still have to be a part of the business of writing. There is a business side to all of this and the business side of pretty much everything nowadays is incorporating AI into their process.

So if you're an author and you're self published and your books are your business, then you need to consider AI as part of your business at some point.

**Danica Favorite:** Yeah, and I agree with that. And I think that's one of the conversations. And I don't want to necessarily put words into his mouth because a lot has happened since NINC, I had a really great conversation with Joe Solari about the author business and I'm right there with Steph the moment you decide to write something and put it up for sale it becomes a commercial product and you have decisions to make that are business decisions about your work, and it's really important to consider what that business decision looks like for you.

And so it was really cool for me speaking with [00:30:00] Joe who runs the Author Nation Conference. And that was one of the things that I was really impressed with talking to him and talking about AuthorNation is this idea of your writing as a business and the writing business and him running that conference as a business. Because ultimately, yes, we do these things from our heart and we absolutely love story and storytelling. But, Can we be honest and just say we all need to eat? Like, I, seriously, you know,

**Steph Pajonas:** Put a roof over our heads. Absolutely. 

Like all of this stuff is important. 

**Danica Favorite:** be honest. If, if Lord such and such would like to come and be my patron and give me a living and I could live in a nice little section of his manor and just write whatever the heck I want. You know what I still have to please Lord such and such with what I'm writing though But to just be able to write Sure, I could write all kinds of stuff I could write stuff that is definitely [00:31:00] not commercially viable.

I had a cool conversation with my editor, recently about my writing. I actually blew her mind and I now think that she's going to be really picky with me on this. I hate description. I don't like writing description. I don't like describing my characters. Part of that is number one, I am the kind of reader that I don't like it when the author describes it for me. But number two, that's not how I see people.

So like when I envision my hero and I envision a heroine, they're just these amorphous blobs. I don't know what they look like. I don't care what a person looks like because to me, what matters is what's inside them. I care about their heart. I care about their spirit. I care about their soul. I care about all of these other non tangible things. So if you have blue eyes or brown eyes, I don't give a crap. Like I just don't.

It was pointed out to me because my editor was horrified when I said this. I only describe characters in my books because I'm forced to. And she's like, ah, [00:32:00] she's like, wait, you don't describe them? How have I not called you out on that? I say, I'm like, oh, I've been called out on that. And then I go and I do it and I add it because I realized that's what readers want. Readers want to know what the character looks like. I don't care. You can tell me what you want the character to look like and I'll say that's what the character looks like. And I do, I literally have come back with that. Like, well, what do you want them to look like? I'll make them look like that. Um, cause I just don't care. And the point behind that is if it was a fully Danica book written exactly the way I want to write about it, I wouldn't describe any of that stuff. I wouldn't,

it would be. Descriptionless.

But it's a commercial product and therefore because I want people to buy my book I describe the things I say, okay.

Well, I guess this dude has blue eyes because people like dudes with blue eyes Yeah, I know that that's what we're gonna get the hate mail of.

**Steph Pajonas:** Dudes [00:33:00] with blue eyes. Everybody loves them. I don't know.

**Danica Favorite:** Yeah. But like, again, like for me, that's a business decision. I make not a creative decision. What I really loved talking with Joe at NINC was this idea of the business decisions versus a creative decision. Author Nation is making business decisions, not just because they want it to be a good viable conference, but also because authors need to learn how to make business decisions for their writing and make what's an appropriate business decision for them.

What business decision is AI for you?

And frankly, I think that the Author Nation people see AI as a valid and important business decision, because there are going to be so many talks on AI at Author Nation, Elizabeth has a couple of talks about AI. I have a talk about AI. Publish Drive is giving a talk on Publish Drive and I promise you, because I wrote the talk 

**Steph Pajonas:** [00:34:00] They will be talking about it. I will not be speaking on AI at the conference, but I will be there interfacing with all of the authors that I know. And ones that I'm certain I will meet along the way. And I will talk about AI with you if you're interested in one on one. Like let's all just try to demystify this and make it understandable for you as part of your creative process or your business decisions, 

**Danica Favorite:** Absolutely. Absolutely. And that is something I think both of us have this open invitation. If you see us at AuthorNation, if we're in the middle of something, we won't be able to, but please, stop us. Please ask us questions. Especially if it's something maybe you're afraid to ask publicly, say, okay, can you tell me privately what this actually means?

There is no such thing as a stupid question, in my opinion, and Steph and I are happy to do it. I will also say at NINC, thank you, to the people who came up and said, hi to me, I did tell Steph this, but like, it was so [00:35:00] humbling to me, like how many people came up to me that I didn't know that aren't friends of mine.

They aren't friends with Steph and they're like, Hey, I listened to your podcast. It means a lot to us. So please, if you see us, let us know that you listen to the podcast. If you have ideas for future topics, also let us know because this really is about education.

My heart, Steph's heart, it's always been about supporting other authors, educating authors, helping authors. That's so important to us because I wouldn't be where I am at without the support of authors. My journey started with E Harlequin and it was authors there supporting me, encouraging me and showing me the ropes.

And that was for me, another beautiful thing about NINC is some of those authors that I know from those early days were there. And it was so cool to get to see them and realize that we're still here. And so many of the authors I started out with way back [00:36:00] when they aren't here anymore. They aren't writing.

They,

**Steph Pajonas:** same.

**Danica Favorite:** and like, and here's the thing I, and I mean this very sincerely from the bottom of my heart is I want to see all of you 20 years from now. I want us 20 years from now, whatever conference, whatever that looks like to be able to hug each other and say, Oh my God, We did it like we're still here and to be able to celebrate those successes and to say yes and to have been part of that journey because that is why I do this.

That's why I'm here. I know that's why Steph is here. And, I think that's really where we want to wrap it up. Come see us at AuthorNation. We want to celebrate you. We want to celebrate your successes. We want to answer your questions and of course, always feel free to reach out to us through our website at bravenewbookshelf. com. We're also on Facebook. So visit us on Facebook and,

**Steph Pajonas:** All the [00:37:00] places. Yeah. 

Come see us at AuthorNation. We're excited to meet you and find out what you've been up to and celebrate your successes. I know Danica is excited about that too. 

So that's pretty much all we wanted to talk about this week. We'll have more guests coming up soon.

There are, they're all over our calendar and we're going to be recording a lot in the next few days, but we wanted to get this little solo duo show in before we continue on with those so yeah. So you have anything else you want to say Danica before we go? No? 

**Danica Favorite:** like I said, I just want to remind you that we've got the cool sale at Publish Drive 50 percent off through November 4th for our distribution plans on an annual plan. And the other stuff you can still try for free. So, still a really great deal. We're all here to help authors. That's everyone's goal. And so the more ways we can help you, the more we want to do that. So thank you all for being here. And I can't wait to see how all this turns out because like you said, 20 years from now I really do want to be [00:38:00] running into you at a conference and hugging on you and saying, Oh wow, look at all we've done. 

**Steph Pajonas:** I can't wait as well. If you want to check out our new writing tool from the Future Fiction Academy, you can go to futurefictionacademy. com slash raptor. Yes. Just like the raptor dinosaurs, lots of dinosaurs. Go check out our new tool that we have there for writing with AI.

So thank you guys all for tuning in. Once again, the show notes and the full transcript will be on the website at BraveNewBookshelf. com. So come check us out and we'll see you in the next episode. Okay. Bye everybody.

**Danica Favorite:** Bye.

Thanks for joining us on the Brave New Bookshelf. Be sure to like and subscribe to us on YouTube and your favorite podcast app. You can also visit us at BraveNewBookshelf. com, sign up for our newsletter, and get all the show notes.