#19 - The Power of "YES, AND" Leadership

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In today's episode, we will uncover the power of simple yet profound words:

"Yes, And." Our guest today is a trailblazer in integrating the principles of improv into the world of business and leadership. She will show us how "Yes, And," which is the recipe in improv theater, when applied in business and personal life, not only enhances our ability to listen, collaborate effectively and bringing innovation, but also serves as a powerful tool for building trust, overcoming fear and nurturing confidence. But this episode, isn't just a discussion.

You are going to enjoy a playful "Yes, And" game that our guest leads us through. Without further ado I'll hand it over to Laura

thank you, Christine. Hi, listeners. We're so glad you're here and listening in with us on this episode, we're taking a journey into the world of improv. Our guest is Tracy Shea Porter. Tracy is the CEO and co-founder of Yes Unlimited.

She's an entrepreneur, top rated facilitator. Keynote speaker and mentor. She's also an author of a newly released book, the yes and business evolution improv skills for leadership in life, which is filled with practical and easy to implement ideas for enabling outstanding leadership. We're excited to have Tracy here with us as she has extensive experience in both the business world and improv community, designing and delivering training to clients internationally, which we know will bring value to this episode.

So, let's get started, Tracy. We are so grateful that you're here with us today. Would you mind starting by sharing a little bit about yourself and why you wanted to join us on the podcast?

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Laura and Christine. I'm so delighted to be here today. Well, the interesting thing is that I started my business career, I spent decades in the corporate world, at publishing companies, agencies, technical companies, and all the way along I had this great hobby called improv.

So, in my early 20s, I was working at a publishing company. It was the late 80s. Everyone was smoking in the office. I didn't hear a lot about training and development programs or bringing your whole self to work at that time. We were really figuring it out. I was 20 something years old and the thing for women to do was wear big, huge shoulder pads.

Kind of like football players so that they could be more masculine. And the women that I worked with were trying to be more masculine because we thought at the time that That was the way to be in the business world. We hadn't yet figured out that the yin yang or masculine feminine approaches, can work together and build a beautiful kaleidoscope.

We weren't there yet. And at that time, I went down to Harbor Front, where they had a theater sports class. And theater sports, is literally a show where you get on stage and have fun and get playful and laugh doing improv. And I was captivated and went back for a class the next week and frankly, never left the improv community.

So, in the beginning, that's how it started for me, a young working woman who took up improv as a hobby. And along the way through the decades, I Brought improv practices, and we'll talk about them, of course, into my working world. And I always ended up being, , on the employee engagement team, always helping people feel included, heard, listen to this type of, collaboration approach that started to become more and more part of the working world.

And we're still developing it today, of course. So, that's the root of how I worked, always in communication, sales, and marketing, and also had this great improv hobby that was really a big community of people being playful and getting collaborative in the moment.

Seems very serious to something that is fun. And I'm curious because There's some point in your career, whatever it is, you kind of bring the improv into the organization and corporate world. Why is it like, why did you start doing it and what, what did you see about it?

Well, interestingly, throughout my career in the corporate world, I found that there was kind of a revolving door of we're a downsize and cutting departments. And there wasn't really a lot of back and forth and input from team members at the time throughout these, these years of me working in the corporate world. It was really focused on revenue quite a bit. And in recent years, maybe in the last 10 years, I'd say, which is so new, there has been a movement to realize that in fact, people are burnt out.

You know, people are quiet quitting or loud quitting their jobs. And more and more research out there show that if we, if we don't involve the whole person at work, if we don't listen and hear people and work on a sense of values and purpose in an organization, and if we only focus on revenue, for example, then companies actually lose revenue then.

And, I think, a beautiful awakening for the corporate world to realize that what's really important here when you're working with people is to understand that, all these people that you're working with, these humans, they make your company what it is, all the way through to how people deal with customers, bond with each other, how leaders and teams connect.

And so what improv does, and what I started to bring into the working world was: building trust through different ways to collaborate, different ways to speak to one another, to really listen improv is amazing for listening skills. Because when you're doing improv, you can't be anywhere else, but in the present moment, and you must listen, and the foundation principle of improv yes and, which is an approach where you say I'm listening to you, I hear you, I respect you, even if I don't agree.

And I'm going to listen and hear what you have to say. And then you'll listen to me and you'll respect what I have to say. And we'll go back and forth. And out of this listening, we might arrive at something new. And these types of, principles are entering the workplace and becoming a huge part of learning and development programs to help people really feel like, and experience and embody the fact that they're part of an organization that cares.

Because we're all filled with people and we're all humans connected.

That's beautiful. And I think probably most of the listeners never have or never experienced improv before. Tracy, I wonder, maybe we can play a little bit, just show us a little bit of what improv is and how does it.

Affect us as we are speaking or being together.

Absolutely. I love that. Let's do a little exercise. And one thing I want to want to say is what we like to say right up front is improv. A lot of people think, what do you think when I say the word improv, Laura, and Christine, what do you think about improv?

What work? Entertainment. Comedy. Comedy. Second City. Saturday Night Live. Whose Line Is It? All that sort of thing. So, what happens is people, because it's really embedded in the consciousness that improv is all about comedy, people might think that we're turning them into performers or actors.

So, what we're doing with corporate and education and also therapeutic work, healthcare work, it’s called applied improvisation. So, we're taking the fundamentals like yes and applying them through brief experiential exercises so people can feel and start to, get it in at a cellular level, what it's like to connect.

beyond the thinking and right into the body. So, I'd love to do a little yes. And exercise with you. I love that. And so, what I'm going to do is, always I'll be first and, Christine second and Laura third in this approach that we're going to take, and I'm going to do a little yes. And so, the first thing we'll do is.

We'll just do a one word at a line story where we start with the word no. Okay, we'll start with the word no. So, I'll say something, I'll say a line like, Laura went to the store. And Christine, you will say, no, Laura, and then Laura, you will say, no. And so forth. And we'll just do that for 15 seconds.

And then we'll talk about what no means before we move to the next phase. Sound good. Sounds good. Okay. So, Jennifer, put on her suit to get ready for work.

No, Jennifer put on her pajama to go back to sleep.

No, Jennifer jumped out of bed and fed the cat. Okay.

No, Jennifer got in her spaceship to go to the moon.

No, Jennifer doesn't like the moon.

No, skipped over to Mars.

I love it. Okay, so we'll stop the no.

So, when we're using the word no in that way, what did you notice or how did that feel?

It feels we don't go anywhere. It feels like we are staying about, always about what Jennifer does, and we don't go anywhere.

Right. It also felt like there was no connection. Like, Is she going to the moon or is she going to Mars?

Like there was just no connection whatsoever.

Exactly. I love all your points. Now, when I'm talking about the word no, when I'm facilitating and teaching or doing keynotes, I always say the word no is really important. Because we need to have the word no to create boundaries, to shut things down, for self-care, no is a critical and important word.

When you're building effective communication between teams, however, what the word no tends to shut things down in a way that isn't positive. It's kind of like my way or the highway approach. No, we're not taking that idea. No, we're not listening to each other, that sort of thing. So, in improv, we want to avoid no, because it doesn't help us with openness with hearing each other and our ideas.

So that's why in improv the word no is something that We kind of want to not shut things down. We want to expand communication. So let's try that with yes, but. Okay, so I'll say a line and then Christine you'll say yes, but, and then Laurie you'll say yes, but, and finish the line. So, it would be something like, uh, Patrick decided to take his dog to the park.

Yes, but he go back to the, goes back to the kitchen to get some snack.

Yes, but the snacks were not good. So, he decided to go back for the walk.

Yes, but when he was on the walk, he decided to pick some flowers and take it slowly.

Yes, but he is worried about the dog and the dog run away.

Yes, he ran after the dog to save it.

Right. So, when we were using the phrase yes, but to start a sentence, how did that one feel for you?

It's felt complicated. It feels there is a block. It feels like you're moving a little bit, but you know, your kind of being stopped before you move again.

Yeah. He felt more forced, like. Oh, I have to, I have to force this somehow, like to fit to work and it's not, it wasn’t really.

 Right. Thank you for that.

So, the word, but by the way, research and studies show that when you use by the lot, it negates everything you said before. So, it's a little bit what I call it, but better know. So, if you think about when you're talking to people, how you feel kind of shut down when they say, but you know, Hey, I have this idea.

And someone says, yeah, but. And you feel kind of like, they're not really supportive or they're not listening to me all the way through. They're coming in with the judgment from their own mind. They're not suspending judgment and really opening up to maybe just, getting beyond what they think as well, right?

So, the foundational principle, yes and let's try that and see how that one feels. So, this is the foundation principle of improv and I'll start with something like, Emily, went for a walk and then Christine, you can say yes and, and Laura, you'll say yes and. So, let's try that. And I'll say, Emily decided to go for a walk.

Yes. And then she picks up her phone to dial, to connect with her boyfriend.

Yes. And as she's talking, she's picking flowers.

Yes, and Emily is walking and talking to her loved one, picking flowers and enjoying the sunshine.

Yes, and while she's enjoying the sunshine, she saw birds, flock of birds flying across the sky.

Yes, and as she's walking and talking and experiencing nature, she lands on a pot of gold. Yes,

and Emily became wealthy. and got married and picked the flowers and brought them to her wedding. So, we'll end there. So how does it feel to do yes and?

It's very, moving and it's interesting because you get curious where it goes.

Like, there's a storyline and story progress and you get it curious and it's amazing how, you know, different mind would lead to different stories, and you just keep going with it.

Yeah. You definitely feel more creative, like you're creating something and there's, there's nothing You can't say anything wrong.

Like it's just, I just keep, it keeps growing.

I love what you said because one of the beauties of improv is that you really can't say anything wrong. Improv is about, it's okay to fail. It's okay to make mistakes. And that's kind of where the magic happens, and the growth happens like life. And this foundation principle of yes.

And if you start saying yes, and in your life more. For example, just throughout your day, as opposed to no or but, you'll notice kind of an energetic shift within yourself, and it's an observation skill to do that, , if you say but, it's okay, don't worry about it, everyone does, or if you say no, it's okay, just say, oh, that's okay, get playful with yourself.

Make it a practice. I'm going to try to say yes and more when I'm communicating with others. And if I say no or but I'll just say, hey, I just did that again. That's no big deal. I'm just, I'm going to practice. I'm going to practice. Yes. And, and see how it makes you feel, feel more open. And we actually go in and work with teams, leaders, all kinds of education, work with students.

On the power of yes, and to be more open, collaborative, and to build that deep bond with one another.

So, this is just making me think because of the work that we all do. This is a really valuable tool for a lot of reasons. So, can we explore maybe that's like from an individual and from a team perspective?

 Yes. I can see how useful it is for, team and then I love you Tracy to express more about it, but also, from individual perspective, how can improv, build confidence, overcome imposter syndromes, or, and you mentioned about examples, perfectionist, like not overcome that part of us that want to be perfect and know that, you know, making a mistake is fine.

I welcome all those different aspects of improv. I'll start with a little bit about the individual approach, and then I'll talk a little bit about the team and leader approach. I call the individual approach of being kind of an improvisational person, a moment-by-moment practice. In fact, it's kind of a spiritual practice in a way.

And I even did some work directly with Eckhart Tolle, who wrote The Power of Now. Because his work weaves beautifully into improv. Because one of your great practices is to be present in the moment. And I often bring up in workshops, The importance of breathing and I can't emphasize it enough for anyone who wants to be more attuned there have a more bodily attunement with connection because improv trains the brain to get out of fight or flight syndrome and to get fully present in the moment and it helps you regulate your nervous system and there's a lot of research and studies out there now that show how improv activates a different part of your brain.

To help you get over judgment for moments when you want to be. playful and connecting and collaborating. So, what can you do? Well, I'll give you an example. This is a story that I like to tell, where I was on my bicycle and a car cut me off and I actually, got irritated and I looked at the driver and I was like, Ooh, you know, and the driver looked at me and went, er, and there was going to be this road rage moment, right?

Which many people can relate to. And in that moment, I actually got playful instead and decided, this is silly, I'm actually going to smile at the driver. It's a human, we're humans, things happen. I smiled and he immediately mirrored me, which is a great improv technique. And gave me a huge laugh and we just laughed together right there, gave each other a thumbs up and off we went and had a great day.

And imagine if we had had that scowl and went off and complained about each other all day instead. We would have taken a different trajectory and impacted our nervous system or fight and flight, all those things differently. So as an individual, how you show up in all your little moments is this moment-by-moment practice.

And again, if a moment happens and you're like, oh, I didn't do that as playfully as I might have wanted. Well, let it go and get playful with that, right? Get playful with. Being annoyed, get playful with being all the little irritations and notice your life shift as you throughout the day involve play whether you're eating or brushing your teeth or anything you're doing, you can do mindfully in the moment and have a sense of humor about it.

And what is improv? Laughter bonding. So, let's shift to teams for a moment. And the beauty and power of laughter, laughter, again, research shows for those who love research that. Teams that, play together, stay together. And if you involve a sense of humor and laughter, it can really help projects flow better, create camaraderie.

So, when you're doing improv, we go in and talk about how it trains the brain. It trains the brain to show one another that it's great to have each other's backs. And we do simple exercises. We just did a great one with Yes, And, where we involved active listening. Because once you learn how to listen effectively where you're not thinking, and you're really fully present, and people feel heard, deep trust occurs.

You can have friends for life, and I'm sure we all have. I have friends for life from my working world. And we all bonded through some kind of, storytelling. that we engaged in with one another and improv is also great for teaching. You had us tell stories and have confidence and to overcome imposter syndrome.

I like to say the more you do something, the more you will do it. So the more you get up there and take that risk with your teammates and you notice everyone's got your back and everyone's been trained to support one another, the more you will. Support one another and not worry about if you look silly, it's like fantastic.

Or if you didn't say that word, right. It's okay because you all are in it together. And if someone supports you when a project didn't go fully the way you wanted it to, that creates, again, that deep personal bond that helps you work together as you go forward and try other things. So, my, my thing is. Be playful, alter your nervous system, get out of fight, and flight system, breathe effectively.

 And for nonverbal skills, here's one I really like. The Wonder Woman pose. Amy Cuddy, if you spread your arms and say, I'm grateful. And I do this with whole groups of people. I did it yesterday. With 40 people and had everyone spread their arms. If you hold that post for 20 seconds and just say, I'm grateful your whole chemistry changes and shifts.

And in fact, the whole team, you could feel them regulating one another in the room. So these are some of the examples of how improv can help you with individual and team.

That's amazing. And it's interesting when you say that with the improv, it's also remind me of, you know, jazz improvisations, you know, like the jazz musicians met another musicians and they haven't practiced or they discuss at the moment, what kind of song or what kind of keynotes that they want to play and then, as a listener, it's just amazing how much fun or how amazing they are together.

 And it starts from listening to one another, tuning into one another. And I felt like that it's similar to conversations when we talk to one another. And when we tune in and improv in a way that everyone is participating in. Yes. And another song can be created through that.

What you said is really, as you were saying that, recently I was at a concert and everyone was playing spontaneously, they had just met, and I was talking to one of the musicians and he said, you can't do that without Yes And, which was beautiful.

I want to mention that there's a study that Charles Lim, a neuroscientist did, you can Google it on, on the internet, and he did a study on both jazz musicians. who were improvisers, as well as comedians. He did it with Colin Mochrie, from whose line is it anyway, where he plugged them up to see how their brain was working when they were improvising.

And he noticed that the part of their brain that suspends judgment and opens to creativity and play was activated when they were improvising. So, We use that research when we're talking with leaders and doing keynotes to explain how improv is great for innovation. And it supports, divergent thinking.

So, brainstorming. So, you might, for example, invite your team into a room and say, we're going to just improv all ideas on the table. All ideas are good ideas. Everyone can be heard. And in that session, you would say we're going to activate that part of the brain that lets go of judgment and says we're going to skip all the no's and but's and say everyone can be heard here.

And what research also shows is that the more ideas you are putting forward, the better ideas. I, I sometimes read about organizations who They've been too speedy with their product, and then they have product failures, and they go back and try to fix things and it, it's a nightmare. I can think of a few today that are in the news, actually.

And, basically if, you take the time to allow people to have that free flow, not only does it build camaraderie and trust because people feel heard. You're likely to get to the good ideas and then on a different day, you can apply that convergent thinking where you narrow things down and do your top one or two ideas and, skip the ones that aren't going to work.

So that's how we use improv to, help, teams. You could do it in your own personal life, sit down with yourself and say, I'm just going to let all the ideas out without any judgment. For today and write them all down and let them all go. And then I'll look at them another day, tomorrow or next week, whatever it is, and apply that judge to the brain.

You can do that in your personal life too when you're trying to make choices and decisions. So yes, jazz musicians, comedians, anyone who improvises, they're activating a part of their brain that's really spontaneous and creative.

What I really love about it is it opens up for options, possibilities, whether I'm doing it by myself.

Or with a team in an organization, you know, I coach a lot of women and I hear this a lot. Well, you know, that's a, I could try it, but yeah, yes, but it's a lot of yes. But what if they were just to say to themselves, but yes, and, and they can continue to grow their ideas and their options for their career or for their situation that they're in, like, wouldn't that be.

Lovely. Like, wouldn't that, wouldn't that be more helpful?

I love what you said, Laura. And I just want to answer that for a second, because as women, we have this collective conditioning often, and we get messages from sometimes our families, society, educate, whatever. Sometimes we're told we're supposed to be a certain way.

And that way is quiet and submissive. That is still out there. We're still overcoming thousands and thousands of years of conditioning. So how can we yes and ourselves and open up to trying something when we're afraid, like there's a lot of fear around, stepping forward, what if someone says, it’s not good, or they don't like me, or I did it wrong.

And so, I don't mind saying, when I first started public speaking, I can remember shaking on stage and being nervous. I can remember everyone with their eyes down because I really wasn't doing a good job. And what I did was, I joined groups. I cannot overemphasize the power of joining a group to help you with your confidence, a group that's doing something you want to do, whether you want to learn to make clay or, or to write or anything, joining a group really helps.

And I, I started a quest through Toastmasters. I joined Speaker Slam. I took courses in speaking. And then the thing I did, the thing that. I always recommend, which is to feel the fear and do it anyway. And so, take little steps. I think what stops people is, I'm here and I need to be here.

Like, I'm at A and I need to be at Z. Well, actually you're at A and just go to B. And through those little steps throughout the days and months, you will achieve your goal. And, even in writing the book, that I recently released, the Yes and Business Evolution, I went through many, many roadblocks.

I mean, it was COVID. I lost my mother during COVID. I had hip surgery. I was, dealing with the very human reactions we all had to COVID. It wasn't a pretty time. However, I did keep this creative project of writing my book in my mind and it became kind of a north star for me. So, if you have a dream and you're listening, you can do it.

You can absolutely do it. And it does involve taking all the little steps and not thinking I have to be perfect. In fact, it is going to be through all the ups and downs and all the ins and outs. That you grow and then you'll look back and see yourself and go, oh, wow, I did something unexpected and isn't that great.

And you can yes end your way all the way through it, right? Can yes end your way all the way through it.

And isn't it amazing with yes end there's no stuckness because it's yes end and then what you mentioned about the B, the B could be your left side, right side or back or front. It's just another step and yes because it takes you to another yes again.

I love that. Yes. Yes end. Yes end. Thank you, Tracy.

Where can people find you? Well, you can find me on LinkedIn, under my name, Tracy Shea Porter, I love it when people add me on LinkedIn. You can, engage with me there. If you actually want to reach out to my email, I'm at Tracy at yes, unlimited dot CA.

In fact, that's the name of my company. Yes, unlimited. And you can check out my website at yes, unlimited dot CA. And we do a lot of, international training. And I don't mind saying that yes. And an improv is flourishing around the world. We're part of a community. There are thousands of us.

It's called the Applied Improvisation Network. It's a nonprofit and all of the people teaching Applied Improvisation connect there. And there's exciting work going on around the world in, Applied Improvisation.

Yeah. And also, don't forget to check out Tracy's book.

And we'll have all the information on Tracy in our show notes for you. So Tracy, before we leave with you, we want to ask you our four lightning round questions. Lovely. Just a way for us to get to know you more. , First question is, where do you go for inspiration?

I have a tree friend. And I actually go to the park and it's huge fur kind of green tree that I can actually go under. And I feel like I have a friendship with the tree literally. And I like to breathe with the tree. And if you've heard of tree breathing, it's quite therapeutic.

I have not heard of that, but I'll check it out.

I love trees.

What is one habit you adopted that has greatly improved your career?

I would say the number one, tip I can give to people is to eat healthy. Exercise, drink water, sleep well. These foundation pieces are easy to overlook, however, everything I do works way better because of skipping processed food, I eat organic, I'm, , a big water drinker and, uh, sleep well, and the exercise, yoga, anything that moves your body.

What is one thing that keeps you moving forward each day?

My daughter. I love my daughter so much. She's 32. She's, uh, the light of my life. And we have a great relationship. And I love her and Flo the cat. I'm a big animal lover too.

That's beautiful. And our last question is what is the most valuable piece of advice you ever received?

I would say the most valuable piece of advice I ever received was to not believe everything your mind thinks. Don't believe all your thoughts and in fact yes, and, and to feel the fear and do it anyway. So don't believe everything your mind thinks. And get playful with that.

That's awesome advice. I'm going to take that to heart.

I don't know about you, Christine, but that's definitely coming with me. Yeah,

yeah, definitely. Thank you so much, Tracy, for coming here for speaking for having conversation with us for introducing. Improv and the yes and philosophy to the workplace, to our listeners. And I wish all the best for your book and what you do, your missions.

Thank you so much. And thank you listener for listening to our episode today. Please don't forget to like, or to comment and we'll see you next time. Thank you, Christine, and Laura. It was a pleasure.

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