#21 - Navigating a Toxic Workplace? How to Find Your Way With Peace and Ease (Part 1)

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Hello, listeners, and welcome back. It's Laura and Christine on this episode of Women's Career Mastery Podcast. The two of us today are going to be doing part one of a two-part series focused on my amazing co-host, amazing partner, and now amazing author, Christine Samuel. Christine and I are going to talk about her book that she just released.

It's called the Heart Space. Let me just read you a description of it. The Heart Space is a life-changing guide to embracing uncertainty, overcoming fears, and thriving in times of change. It shows you a way of being where actions become effortless. Thinking hard is unnecessary and peace of mind comes naturally. Even if your path ahead is unclear.

I've read through the first half of the book and so that's part one, we're going to cover that today. It's all about the thinking mind. So, Christine, I had to do a little convincing to get you to be on the podcast with me about the book, but we're here. Tell me, what do you want to share with everybody?

Well, I guess I want to share why I wrote the book. As you hear what Laura mentioned is The Heart Space living with grace and ease in an era of uncertainty. It took me about four years, basically. To get this book from first having an idea about the book to the end of it. And the reason why I wrote the book, because I was at the end of my corporate career, and I was contemplating, and this is COVID right during pandemic people are thinking like, is this the what I really want to do.

And people have some time to think about their life, to think about, their purpose and all this stuff. So, I, I was one of those people, and it was scary. And what I wrote is basically, I noticed a difference between the headspace and the heart space and how much that during my corporate Career, all I rely on.

I mean, like, almost entire of my life is the headspace. My intellectual capacity my rational my analytical capacity. Then, when I went through uncertainty. It was scary because I was so used to something that is so certain, so in control. But going through a transition was like, I had no idea and that was so scary and so I was interested in what is fear about, like why we fear and what fear got to do with all our thinking, our feeling, and our experience.

And also, a journey of living from the heart space myself so I can write the book that is, impactful and powerful. And it's not coming from, according to this theory or that theory, but it's coming from, my experience. And I want, readers to read it not as, not an expert telling them what to do, but a friend who, who knows what they've been through and who, who done their path, who experienced all the fear and doubt and not knowing and uncertainty and, who can be.

They're with them walking together. So that's kind of a book that I like to write. And even the tone of the book is also coming from the heart space.

So, I felt all that reading the book. That you're there as my friend, even though you are my friend, if I didn't know you and I'm reading it, it does feel like a friend is trying to educate me. Help me see something different that I haven't seen about myself before and you use a lot of metaphors, which is really helpful. Helps you put things in context. And the one you use straight out is the is the metaphor of the knife. Can you explain a little bit about that?

Yeah, so, the knife is chapter one, basically.

I told a story of, the world, once upon a time, there's a world where a wizard came and bestowed a knife to the people who never used a knife before. And they start using it and they start finding how useful is the knife, like to cut everything faster, you know, cooking is faster, they can make a nice furniture, at home and, and because it's so useful, they give the knives away to their children too.

And everyone has different sort of knives that they can use. They use it to play. They use it to work. So then one day there was an epidemic. There's something that happened everywhere in the city that everyone is bleeding, but they didn't know why they are bleeding.

And the story basically points out that, we are using that kind of knife. And not the knife that we know, but the knife of our thinking and our analytical, our intellect are very, sharp in cutting things into pieces and cutting things so small that we forgot the whole picture.

That's basically the story from chapter one.

Yeah, it's very powerful to think that my thoughts can represent something like a knife, and I can cut and split things. in seconds, right? Just think about, you meet somebody for the first time, and you might start cutting right there. Are they a man or a woman? Do they have blonde hair or brown hair? Like you just start slicing it up before you even get to know the person you start to make a judgment. I mean, that's the kind of example that came to mind as I was reading that section of the book.

Yeah, and also, about the work, right? So, each of us.

Like we are living in specialization, our jobs, and the more you specialize in what you do, the higher you get paid. Right? Like my background is User Experience, so I specialize in user experience. And you know, Laura, your background is, Learning and Development. So, you specialize in learning and development and with our specialization, we have tools that we use and also way of thinking and perspective and approach of how we solve problems. And that's the way we cut too, because if I see things from user experience perspective about something, then I will not be able to see somebody who like, maybe from different disciplines of seeing something.

So, I cut it into pieces, and I cut it into the shape of user experience, then I forgot there's another way of approaching a problem or making solutions. That's also part of, very powerful tool of our mind, but it's also cutting it so small that we forget the whole picture.

That's an excellent example. And I think this leads me into the part in your book where you talk about the connection between the thinking mind and the body. And that whole section on the cost of rigidity.

So, if I am using the knife and I'm working, and I'm specializing, and I'm cutting, and I'm getting very finite, I know I could see this for myself as I was reading it, but why couldn't I see that that's what I was doing before? Like that getting so rigid and constrained with my thinking.

That it was holding me back, that it was costing me to be too rigid and not be able to connect.

Yeah, it's interesting, maybe for the audience, just a little bit of background about that. Rigidity is in neuroscience, and we all know this, “use it, or lose it,” that kind of term. So, let's say, you use a certain muscle so much, but you don't use the other muscles and the other muscles are getting weak and you kind of lose the flexibility on that.

The same thing as now, our eyes are focused on small screens, and we are using that narrow focus all the time, that we, start losing our ability to see in peripheral ways of seeing, so, what Laura referring is, you know, we use so much of our analytical and intellectual mind that we forget we have other capacities such as intuition, creativities, and those other capacity, we kind of lose it.

Not because something else, but because we just rarely use it, so that's make it, the way we think, the way we use tools, limited, because we only know how to use one tool, which is the knife, to cut. Because there are glues, you know, there are tapes to put things together, but we don't use it, we forget we have it.

And the reason why we don't see it, because our mind is so close to us, and we live in the world from five hundred years old, “I think, therefore I am.” Right? So, because we are living in the culture that believe, I think, therefore I am, therefore whatever you think, you think it's you.

And because it's so close to us, it is us, we couldn't see it.

Let's say I get mad at you, Laura, because you do something. And I have a thought of, maybe I judge you, for example, because it's my thought, and I think that's my thought is I am, then I believe that you're wrong.

And I didn't really reflect, is it really what I think, right? Is this just my assumption? Or is my judgment? Or is that the truth? But I just said, no, that's wrong. Laura is wrong. Because I didn't test it. I didn't question. I think what I think it's me.

Reactionary, like their initial reaction. Yes. To think. Yeah. You might go to right or wrong versus really question.

What, why did Laura do that?

Yeah. Or what am I contributing to this conflict? For example, we never asked that question.

Yeah, and that that speaks to the ability to have that peripheral vision.

Yes, you right. Take a step back because that's the next part that I want to talk about in the next, paragraph on page 21, 22, you talk about. Powerful beyond measure. And, I highlighted this entire section. I'll just read some of it. So, you talk about “how while the outside world may limit our freedom to speak, move, or belong, no one can take away your freedom to perceive and think as you wish.”

Like, wow, that was an aha moment for me. And then you follow that with “how we often have our minds on autopilot.” So true. Right? So true. I can easily think is Christine right or wrong here, like based on the way my brain thinks, but you encourage us to take that step back. Is that where we're trying to get like detached from the thinking mind and just think about what we just said, like get the peripheral view of it.

Yeah, the idea is, in my book, especially the first section, is an invitation to see How does our mind work? Can we move back and see the inner working or the mind, the inner working of our experience? And when I wrote that sentence, I felt, like in my past, I had an experience where, in high school, my, writing was banned, was censored because some belief that the teacher has.

In the office, for example, there's a policy where I cannot do certain part or I cannot speak certain way, but they cannot really tell me what I can think and what I cannot think, because it's all in my mind. So, for me, can we see that because of the way.

That we create perspective in our brain, the way we create connection and meanings that is our own, not others that has come from our own belief. And maybe it's come from the culture belief, but it become ours. We adopted it. Then, can we see that rather than being with what is, we actually respond to our self-created story about what is, because we are meaning-making beings.

We make meaning all the time. The sky is blue, oh, that means happiness. The sky is gray, oh, there's unhappiness or sadness, right? But the sky is gray. Sky is blue is natural, but we just put meaning on it. So, we are the one who creates story. So, it may seem that the external events such as the words someone speaks or news we hear, or the challenging situation we face, trigger our reaction.

The truth It's that our responses are driven by something alive within us, filled with meaning and emotions. So, if we able to see there is a very lively inner world within us that speaks, that have this dialogue, that has this judgment, that have meanings attached to it, then like, you know, let's stop and slow down a bit and don't just look out, but look inside so that we can know more about ourselves.

So, that's the part where you're like telling me take a step back from it. So, let's just do a quick example. So, you're right. I'm at work and I have to follow policy. I can only say and do a certain thing in the process, but I can think differently about it, but I don't have to act on it.

I just can take a step back and realize that I have that power, that I have that capability to do that.

Yeah, and I think, a lot of things that happen in our, in our mind is a habit, right? It's a reaction, its conditioning, whatever we have experienced before. And right now, there's a lot of uncertainty, a lot of fear at work. Is my job last and like, where I am going to be next year or, or stuff like that. So, there's a lot of fear. And there is reaction that comes from fear, right? And, in fearful mode, we try to protect ourselves. We try to, predict the worst scenario so we can prepare. That's part of what I wrote about the survival mind, how the analytical thinking can be used by our survival mechanism. So, we think the worst. So, can we move back and say, what's is my mind doing right now? To me, what do I feel and why I do feel that way?

What I, most afraid of? Is it true? Is it coming from reality or I'm just projecting? So, we can ask those questions. So, one of the traits of headspace is, it thrives through doubt. It's doubtful. It asks questions. So instead of questioning ourselves, Am I good enough? Is this going to work or not?

Question our thoughts. Like don't question us as a human being, as a good human being, that we try the best. Question our thoughts that say you're not good enough, or this is not enough, or you are not safe enough. Question those and see if those are true. And I think that's, the more healthy way to use our mind, our headspace in a way.

Yeah. I'm going to share the story I told to you earlier. So, for the listeners, when we were preparing for this session, I was sharing a story with Christine. I was up to chapter three of reading the book. And I heard that someone was challenging my character saying things about me that were not true.

And so, some sort of feedback based on something that I was working on, but it was a challenge to not the work, but the challenge to my character. And if I had not started to read this book, I probably would have reacted in a very aggressive way, feeling fearful.

And I would have just got incredibly defensive about it. But I didn't. Instead, I was able to step back, like Christine was saying, and see where this was coming from. And I won't go through the whole situation, but I could see that it was coming from what Christine is saying. There's a bit of fear happening outside of me, within the group.

It was creating this reactionary mode to attack somebody. And I just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, my name, my work, and I was getting attacked, but I didn't react to it. I could have, but I, I thought about it for maybe two seconds and then I said, no, there's something bigger happening here.

My thinking mind doesn't have to go into defense mode.

Yeah. And when I heard what Laura said, I think that's amazing. This is what happened, right? So chapter one to chapter three talk about our analytical, knives that cuts everything and how it affects us and how our analytical is actually part of our survival mind. Because with our analytical power, we can predict, we can analyze, we can make things into small pieces to pay a lot of attention to it, because just in case something, we feel threatened, right?

So now by knowing the way it works by knowing how fear works and how survival mind affecting us, not just me or you, but like human, of course, people will be, trying to protect themselves and the way they protect themselves is they think others as their enemies or they, not as a team, but as competitions. So, in that way, if you see others attacking you in a way that is so rude or so harsh, you can kind of say it's going to be hard, but it's not really personal because they're in fear. Of course, they're going to react that way, right?

So let's talk about that a little bit more Christine. Chapter 3 goes on to how fear holds us back from life and keeps us constrained How fear can drive us to want to have control to feel secure like oh, I've got to control everything this Again, I'm highlighting that every section, this comes up a lot for me and for my coaching clients.

I hear this a lot. And there's a lot of fear when it comes to career, right? Trying to achieve a promotion. Am I enough? Do I have enough? Do what it takes to get the promotion? Getting laid off, performance ratings, all these things, many more happening that creates fear. And of course, the instinct is to go into something that I can control, right?

That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to work harder. I mean, start to network more. I may start to ask more questions. Like I just go into this action mode, so that I can make myself feel secure in that moment. And I might burn myself out trying to do that. I really might cause I just won't stop until I get something.

And then when I get that something, I might, keep going to the next. How do I stop this cycle? Do I stop the cycle? Where do I ask myself to step back and look at things the way you're telling me I should look at things?

Yeah. And this is, I think this is an epidemic in our societies, in our workplace. Um, again, I felt it's because we are Relying so much, too much on our intellectual, on ROI, counting everything and making everything logical. We miss the other part of humanities.

So, we've been working like machine, like trying to get more, do more. And I was part of that too, Laura, I guess it's everyone. This is what I would tell people. And I would start with a story of chapter two, when you look at the earth from outer space, right?

We saw pictures of the earth from outer space. We see the land, beautiful planet, blue and green and clouds. And the only lines that you kind of see. Like a border is between the land and the ocean, land and the lake, the water, and the land, but there are no country borders. There are no country borders between Canada and the United States, in the real globe.

And you can only see those border in the globe or map made by human. So, what that's supposed to mean? That means a lot of things that we think it's as natural as a sun rising on the east and sets in the west, it's actually a mind-made, system. You know, why people need to work nine to five?

Why they have to go to work? Uh, office and, why we only can have vacation for, two months. Why would we need to retire? Like why there's a retirement? Because nature, there's no retirement? So, it's all mind made. And what I know is something that we never thought about.

It's like, when you are in career, sometimes it feels like there's only one way, right? There's a mind made path of career that organization make that use the best practice without asking question why, which, you know, like when I was a junior user experience, I want to be a senior user experience.

And after I get my, promotion as a senior user experience, I want to be a manager user experience, and then it's move up, right? And that's what I felt my value is. The way I progress is by my title when I move up my career, so it feels like then we trap into. Oh, the only way to progress is moving up the only way I know I'm valuable, I grow is by Counting, how much salary increase I have, what is the title I have?

So, we only know one way get to our destination and we become so focused on getting, applying or, making ourselves fit into that process. Then we start, forgetting that our value and worth is not dependent on what other or our boss or our manager told us or how many stars we have in our performance review.

Our value is much more than that, but we forget because we are living in a mind-made system and we're not knowing its mind made. Well, because its mind made, that means we can think about other ways of finding our passion or purpose or getting where we want to get, because it's not only one way.

There are so many ways to go to where we want. I hope that's clear.

It's clear. And it leads me to the last thing I want to talk about on this. Part of our two-part episode. It's that part you talk about this. In chapter four around page 51. So, I'm following the man-made system, right?

And I'm trying to achieve, but there's so many more ways. For me to achieve my potential, my potential is in value is not tied to that one career path. Yes, not tied to that one job role. There's so much more, but you say we can't get there because we're kind of caught in the middle somehow because of this fear of uncertainty so how do I navigate the space?

Like I'm, I'm hearing what you're saying to me, Christine, and I'm stepping back and I'm not reacting to things and I'm thinking differently than I already am. Like I'm thinking, what can I do besides my regular work? Oh, you and I have done that. We've created a podcast on our own outside of our regular work.

It's an addition to something that we do. What is it? How do I navigate that space though? To think. Beyond that one-dimensional career path. How do I get there?

That's a great question. And for me, that's why I wrote this book. That's why we need the heart space. What I mean is this. We are creatures of our habits, right?

We live. In the mind-made system that is so real to us that our survival or our livelihood depends on it. And then we afraid of like not following the systems. So, and then at one point we kind of aware of it. Right. And in this in between, we really need a bigger space because it's scary.

It's still scary. You're not used to it. And at the same time, we need to give space for potential and opportunity and possibilities for us to go and pursued. So, the reason why is in this kind of space is not enough to rely on our intellect. It's not enough to rely on our logical headspace, because the reason why is our logical, our analytical only can work from what it's already know, because its comparison based, right?

So, for example, I know this good or bad. I know if this progress, if I can compare, I need to have a point of references. And the point of references cannot be in the future because I never knew about it before. It's Only something you can comprehend before or even if it's future is expectation of the future based on your past experience.

So now we going to do something that we never done before. Of course, it's scary. So therefore, we need have a capacity, and this is the definition of the heart space for me. The heart space is a gentle, loving space where all our complexity. Feelings and contradictions and paradoxes can stay together in one space because in this gentle holding where we allow and welcome all feelings together, stay a little bit longer, a new insight, a new intelligence, a new idea can arise.

That's all. A place and a capacity we need to have right now because otherwise we become reactive because survival is important for human. And if we think it's about life and death. Of course, we're going to react in a way that we know it's safe, but if what we know before was not helpful anymore, how can we find a new way of being, and therefore we need to allow ourselves to learn to walk that path.

To hold this paradox and contradictions, to grieve the old, to grieve of the dying of, what's not working for us anymore because it's all identity connected with that. And at the same time to embrace this new and therefore it's about trusting ourselves more. Because when we trust ourselves, we see our potential, we see our power inside.

Then, it allows us to be more confident to move forward, to rely on our own inner wisdom. Because otherwise, we always look for outside for some advice, some books, some steps by steps, some proof. But it's kind of fun. As you know, Laura, it's kind of fun to explore. Actually, the fun part is in the process.

As long as we know how to take care of fear.

And it's been a pleasure to play with all of this with you practice it throughout all of our work that we've been doing together for the last two years. I honestly, I'm just amazed at this book and love it. Listeners, you got to catch up with us.

So read the first part, and then we'll dive into the second part. Cause there's so much more we want to cover and talk about, and we'll be sharing more. Christine will be sharing more. She's got some events where she's doing, to talk more about this and about her book. We'll share that in the show notes and Christine, any last words you want to share with listeners?

What I long the most, and this is what I feel for myself as when I was in that place, in between is connection, connection with yourself. And my book, it's about connection with yourself. And I love to be part of that connection, and I love to witness that people are making connection more with themselves.

Because the answer doesn't lie outside, it lies inside, because you know the best of you. Nobody else knows the best of you, it's only you. So, I hope this book really brings. People, the love of themselves and connection to themselves and get to know the power within. So yeah, get the book, go to Amazon, wherever you are and just type in or search the heart space, living with grace and ease in an era of uncertainty or a keyword, my name on Amazon, you'll find the book.

Thank you, Laura. Thank you, Christine.

And one last thing. Typically, Christine and I end our episodes with a lightning round question, but since it's just the two of us, we, we're not doing the lightning round, but I do want to read, apart from her book, and she's talking about how to restore order in our thinking and in our lives. So, she writes this, remember this, you are the one who thinks, the one who acts, the one who feels, and the one who observes.

Christine. The thinker is absorbed in thought, the doer is busy doing, the feeler is caught up in emotion. Only the observer can hold space for all three. And the observer is that person who's taking a step back. So, thanks again for listening. Stay tuned for part two,

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