#1 Dismantling the Perfection Myth with Mercedes Escala

The amount of energy that gets drained because you have to be that person. Oh, the amount of energy because you should be doing something else. That's a total energy greater. I want people to actually be on the other side of that background. Let's use your activity to create.

Welcome to the Women's Career Mastery Podcast, the show that's dedicated to empowering women to really find success and breakthrough barriers. I'm your host, Christine, and my co-host, Laura, along with our amazing guests and experts, we are here to shatter the midst that has been hindering women's career fulfillment for far too long.

So, if you're ready to master your career and take your life to the next level, join us in our journey together. The Women's Career Mastery Podcast starts now.

In today's episode, we tackle the myth that has held women back for a long time: the belief that we must be perfect to succeed in our careers. But let's face it, striving for perfection is not only impossible, but it's also a recipe for burnout and self-doubt. Our guest today is here to bust this myth wide open and show us how we can achieve success without the pressure to be perfect.

Are you ready to join us on this journey of transformation and growth? So, let's dive in and learn how to overcome this myth and find success on our own terms. We defer to do. I hand it over to Laura to lead the interview and introduce our guest today.

Thank you, Christine. Our guest speaker today is Mercedes Escala. She's the Vice President of Talent and Learning for Genesis, which is a global software company focused on the customer experience.

Both Christine and I have had the pleasure of working with Mercedes, and we know first-hand that she is somebody who's an absolutely wonderful manager, leader, and person admired by everyone she works with. So, we're really grateful, Mercedes, to have you here with us today. Perhaps you could start by just sharing a little bit about yourself and why you agreed to join us.

Sure, yes. Well, thank you so much for those kind words. How could I say no to two lovely former colleagues? So, yes, I'm here. Definitely, the topic really sounds super interesting. So, for those that I haven't met, my name is Mercedes Vittala. I've been in the US department for 11 years, but I am originally from Peru and love to be here, be learning constantly about leadership development. Now, with my role as driving talent and learning, I've been exposed to so much around this continuous growth, the power of just putting yourself first and being at your best when you are your true self. So, this topic comes to me as something that really resonates with me. I'm eager to jump in. Let's jump in.

Yes, so when you heard about the topic that we're trying to bust the myth on perfectionism for women in terms of their needing to have it to be successful, what comes to mind for you first?

Oh no, when I hear the word perfectionism, I see a cage. That's how I see it, that's my visual thing—a cage that limits. So, you know, first of all, I feel that I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum. And just because I've been raised that way, I guess, I feel that I've never had the concept of perfectionism in front of me. Although I have a picture that I think, you know, gravitates to that face, but not me. And I actually enjoy very much the concept of trying to get away with that myth. I use it a lot as part of my mentoring-mentee relationship with lots of lovely Latin girls that I mentor. Because really, having that in front of you is limiting. I think thinking about perfectionism is limiting.

So, tell me, I'm really interested in what you're saying about limiting. It's interesting because we think and believe that when we strive for perfection, we get more success, more validation, or more. But why is it a cage? Why is it limiting?

Well, because I feel that the restrictions that perfectionism brings to you, some people could aspire to be that perfect person, that preconceived idea of what perfection or greatness looks like, instead of allowing themselves to have a blank piece of paper and be as perfect as they can be in that moment, with the energy they have that day, you can be as perfect as can be. 

I'm a leader of that, so that's where I see it. So, tell me something, this is very interesting. You said, "So you can be as perfect as you want in a blank piece of paper." And I love that you've been using a lot of metaphors so far. So, tell me, in the women that you mentor, maybe in the workplace that you see, how is this possible? What does it mean in the workplace to have a blank piece of paper?

Well, it means allowing yourself to ask the right questions, allowing yourself not to have all the answers. And I share with you, you know, I'm actually doing something right now that I had not done before. So, when you met me in a former life, in a past life, I was leading other spaces. I wasn't specialized, I was a generalist in the HR space. But right now, I'm doing something different. I'm focused on talent, on learning, things that are very close to my passion. And you know what? Now I'm actually leaving that. I have a blank piece of paper every day because I feel that I have a mission to allow people to be at their best—mentally, physically, spiritually, in any space they choose. Because when you come to work, if you come as your whole self, your energy will be devoted to what you are going to be doing, instead of feeling the pressure to be perfect.

The amount of energy that gets drained because you have to be that person, on the amount of energy because you should be doing something else, that's a total energy drainer. I want people to actually be on the other side of that backroom that you're trying to create. There's no "should" to be honest. I've reached the point, and you know, I'm on the 5th floor. I turned 56, and I can tell you, we do not need all those "shoulds." We do not. And the view from the 5th floor is fantastic. So now, I'm okay with that, and I want people to learn that, as early as my daughter, who's 18 years old. I'm trying to convey that message, and I always say this expression, like, "If you want to plant lettuce, be the best one planting lettuce, and you will go anywhere you want." Without passion, it's okay. And don't worry if the money is there, if the job is well-paid. It doesn't matter. Just plant your niche. I'm being here, and I love it. Mercedes, you're awesome. You mentioned a few times that you noticed, like, maybe your sister or someone is on the other side, right?

They're doing the perfectionist thing. How do you recognize it? Like, what shows up there? What are you seeing of that? The effort and the way things are being projected have a component of this burden. You can see when somebody's really not in their true self, instead of trying to say the right thing or maybe even second-guessing themselves and saying, "I have to ask only a question that sounds smart." You can see when people are refraining themselves. And again, it doesn't mean that they don't deliver great work, but the energy that they put in there, the amount of work that it took them to get there, is way more. They're overworking, they're working too much. And it's not like it's okay to do more work, but you're saying doing work that's not even necessary because you're trying to be perfect, right? Trying to hit that perfect place. Where actually, again, it's the energy.

You know, I'd like to think of this like we all have a day in a life with an amount of energy, and that's a battery that you have every day. And believe me, every day your energy levels are different, your battery is different. 

So, for today, when I open my computer and my job starts, I have something in there that I can get if I use that energy to start focusing on the shoes or what should I be doing that looks good, or the perfectionism. Because, for example, I'm working in a company where we're constantly creating. Now, we have to be okay with things that are not perfect because we have to constantly iterate. And it's fascinating to see that because, instead of building blocks, we're actually building spaces that allow people to move within. You know, your project, your work, it's creating those spaces instead of just building blocks that have that rigid conception. Again, I love your metaphor. You said, instead of building blocks, you're building spaces. And I think you speak from a leader's perspective, like you lead people in organizations where you give the space instead of a block. So, it seems like there are two things: externally and instantly, personally. Where am I a building block within myself, or building space so I can be that blank space? But also, it seems like when you allow yourself to give space for yourself, you can give space for others.

I'm interested in what you're saying as well. If we allow ourselves not to be perfect, we can allow others, people who we work with, not to be perfect as well. Can you iterate on that, please?

Yes, I'd love to do that. I think there's so much opportunity to do that because it's allowing them to open doors, asking the right questions, and actually challenging them in a way that gives them other perspectives. Sometimes, you know, it's interesting because obviously there's always a final deliverable, and when somebody gives you a challenge, in their head, they have a deliverable. That's human nature. Like, you know, my boss says, "Oh, I want you to create, I don't know, a manager class." They're expecting something. Because of past experiences, whatever. But I always see an opportunity to actually, and I love the wow effect. I love it when I enchant people. I feel like I should have been a salesperson because I love going, you know, and I say, "Why limit ourselves to do something that we've already done?" So, give that space. And maybe it is the "what if?" I use that a lot. The "what if we did this?" or, you know, and it's very growth mindset.

My company is really based on the growth mindset, so it's "Why didn't we think of this differently?" That's where we start opening the door, you know, being very candid. That's the way I lead, very true to who I am. And you will see that. People won't see me in the podcast, but I am not the traditional leader, you know, like the executive that has everything matching, super not. That's not me. I have never been like that, and it's okay. Believe me, it is okay. You know, I always say to people, "Let their work speak for you." Like, you know, or your energy. When I go into a place, you know, your energy, do it. But it is this opportunity to give people and allow them to be in that place because, you know, there's a lot of unlearning that needs to happen, a lot of unlearning. And how do you provide that space for the unlearning? It's just, you know, asking the right questions, allowing yourself to be in that place too. I think there's, you know, I think that our leadership styles are also changing. I spend way more time thinking together than actually guiding people. I have an idea of what this could look like, but instead of just saying, "Hey, I'm expecting this," it's like, things together, you know, let's brainstorm. They don't have to come to me with something big. I actually love when we create together. I'm not here just to say yes or no to something. I want to be part of the process because I think I can help in the process. And this is how I can help. I can help taking out the burden of perfection, taking out the overwhelmness. If people feel overwhelmed about something, or helping them think differently or prioritize differently, that's where I see perfectionism crumbling. And it feels delicious to see it crumble.

I mean, you've been in different types of environments, right? And now you're in an environment where you're seeing this co-creation, collaboration, and acceptance of no perfectionism. But how do you see the difference? What are the results? What comes out of it?

Well, they've, I see an outcome that resonates way more with your audience. Because the other concept, that there, too, when I think about this cage of perfectionism, it's also, and I find this is the most limiting thing, you stop listening. When you look for perfection, you will stop listening. That comes with it, you see. And I think when you're on the other side, when you start collaborating, co-creating, you actually have to listen. Like, ears are all over, like your radar just expands. You are going to start feeling more comfortable asking people for feedback. It's showing people, you know, like the bite-size, because it's not fully fleshed, but it's okay. You become an artist in your world. I used to think of myself because in the past I did a lot of conversations, so very number, and I used to think of myself as a number, you know, mathematical brain person. So, I never thought of myself as a creative soul. And I can tell, I am super creative. And the reason I moved myself to that big, I allowed myself to be that way, is because the minute you open that listening, you know, we are in a creative process. We are creative. Things that they see that the line that, then, you know, need, you know, people will tell you, are the people love the fact because that's the critique process for them. We can't have a chicken in every place we do, you know. So, every work we do, opening yourself to that, that's where you see the more, you know, compelling deliverable that resonates with others, that will get more buying because you brought people along. That will allow you to iterate because it's not fully baked. So, you know, you see something that's a condition could change or, you know, there's, you know, some things that you might get better technology later. You can iterate this quickly, but the outcome is way more robust than just limiting by, you know, a perfectionist way or somebody that says, "We used to do it that way." That's very limiting.

From what I get from you, is you said something that's very important. When you try to be perfect, you're not listening. And when you are in that collaboration, now co-creation mode, that's what you do. You listen. So, there is a difference between when I'm trying to be perfect, I'm trying to be alone. I'm trying to see myself. It's more like seeing, felt too much. But when collaboration happens, it's like I become us or me become we. Because through that, there's a lot more new things happening, like evolving and shaping what we want to create.

Yes, the ego goes out the door. Yeah, it's usually a week, no? Yes, the ego goes out. So, what's the difference between perfectionism and striving for excellence? Well, I think the striving for excellence and perfectionism are very closely related. There is this concept of... I tend to think that excellence has a little more component of your view of things, instead of perfectionism being the phase where you have very little to say, somebody else painted that for you. I actually feel that I do excellent work because I give my 100%, and I am okay at that place, you see? That is where I think excellence has the individual component. I feel perfectionism is somebody else painted this for me, and I should be going that way. I still will give it my 100% because that's the way I am. And again, I always say this, every day, it's a different battery. And someday, you might not be in your best creative self for whatever reason, and it's okay because you are still giving your 100% of that day, understanding your... You know, one for me, it was a very liberating moment many years ago. Somebody, it was a long time ago, that I found space where I knew that I had my own personal battery, my energy, you know, was abundant, even if it was low energy, it was still abundant. It was the 100% of that need. So, you know, feeling that, based on you being your console and giving your best, you know, with what you have, it's very liberating. I consider that excellent, but I'm sure, you know, many people could differ from that, and it's okay. We can all live in this world. And Mercedes, I want to ask, is it a switch that turns on and off, like, "I'm a perfectionist. Hey, I'm not a perfectionist tomorrow," or is it something that you learn and evolve over time?

I like to consider myself a recovering perfectionist. I'm in recovery because I was a perfectionist, and I'm learning not to be one. What do you think about that? I think it's a journey. I don't think it's a switch that makes a sudden change. But I do believe that there's a moment in your life where you actually unplug. I would say it's more like unplugging in some way. Whatever the trigger is, it's just a moment where you feel different and say, "Well, I'm willing to embark on this journey, and I will take it one day at a time." I think the positive aspect of this is that once you unplug yourself from that frame or cage that you're in, the abundance of positive things that come your way just keeps you going. And there's no looking back because you feel like, "Wow, this is really giving me so much. What can I do to keep it going?" It's just about staying true to your authentic self. That's what I'm hearing.

Yeah, what I've found is that it's more like inner confidence. It's about allowing ourselves to be free and express our authentic selves. But what I really appreciate about what you're saying is the concept of the battery. Each day, we have a different battery, and it's about giving 100% of that day. It's so much easier to live day by day, acknowledging where we are and how much battery we have, and accepting that. And what you mentioned about acknowledging the abundance and intelligence within that daily battery, I believe that's a very individual journey. Everyone has the choice to put on the lens they want. Personally, I start my day with a lens of gratitude. I have a morning routine that I'm very protective of. I wake up early at 5:00 AM, go to the YMCA with my husband at 5:30, and that's how we start our day. I don't open my computer to start working until I finish my morning routine, which includes things like my gratitude journal and having breakfast. By the time I open my computer, the important things of my day are already done. I feel okay and ready to face whatever comes in front of me because I've prioritized my energy battery providers. I also acknowledge that some days, my energy may be lower, like when I have a cold. But by protecting my morning routine, I allow myself to take care of my energy. For example, I may enjoy a slow sip of lemon tea. It's about recognizing and checking in on your battery and deciding how to best take care of it.

I mean, do you feel and find yourself during the day wanting to do something to recharge? You know, take a nap, go for a walk, whatever. But it's just this personal journey to get to know yourself. There's nobody else that can tell you what works for you because it's only you. It's only you, and what works for me might not work for somebody else, and I'm sure it won't. But take the time to think through it, take the time to give yourself the gift of knowing what you need. It is a gift, and it's yours. If nobody else can give it to you, even if you go to lots of workshops around this, you will still need to take the time to think, "What makes sense for me?" And it's a very valuable advice you give and insights also in what you do, like what are the examples that you have in your life on that part? And it brings me to the topic of mindfulness. What does it mean to be mindful of that battery, of getting to know yourself? We sense there's a perfectionist coming in. How does mindfulness help people? Well, I actually think that first of all, anything that comes into your life needs to be greeted with love. Yes, there are moments where I lose patience, yet it doesn't mean that I will put myself in a place where I beat myself up because I lost patience.

I said, you know what, this is teaching me something. What do I need to learn from this and give myself that space to do that? And I think perfectionism, and I like the concept of recovery. If you think of it this way, believe me, it won't happen again, and it's OK. I even say this when I help people start their meditation journey and guide them through meditation. Your mind will wander, no matter what. But the exercise of allowing that mind to come back, that is the powerful meditation space. Your mind will wander, that to-do list will kick in because you've been wired that way for so long. But it's allowing yourself to say, yes, it's coming in, but right now I want to do something different, which is be with me, which is just not think about anything or connect with me. So trying to bring those spaces where you actually, instead of just putting yourself down like, oh, I failed with this, no, love it and say, hey, welcome. I'll make space for you and get you a chair, but I'm not willing to entertain you for too long.

I'll just move on, okay? That was like, not every day is perfect, right? Things don't unfold the way you want them, but you embrace them, you live through them, and don't you learn from every lesson, you learn from everything that happens. Yes, definitely, definitely. And again, everybody has their own way of connecting that to something spiritual, something linked to the universe, whatever you link it to, whatever works for you. That's the beauty of diverse people. So, there's something that I'm very curious about, because I think just for the past 3-4 minutes, you spoke about creating space. Like, examples of what does it mean to create space for yourself? What is space for you? What is spaciousness? How does someone know, "Oh, I'm creating space, not block"? I think it's being myself. I think for me, it translates to that, being myself. I have people, a lot of people ask me, "Where do you get your energy?" Well, I don't waste my energy on anything else because this is me. So, I'm actually very full of energy because, you know, I'm not doing something because my bosses don't think this way or I'm not going to be doing this because it won't look good in my career. Like, all those things that I was mentioning before, those are energy drainers for me. My space is, "Oh, you know, I'm here, I'm present. I can have an interesting conversation. I can have a very deep one and a very shallow one. It's okay. It's part of what I do." That I think, you know, has helped me is that before every place, even this Zoom meeting, even, you know, I was running late for this one, it doesn't matter. I even if it's a 10-minute break, but I always tune in. I always say this, every orchestra to perform needs to tune in, no matter what.

Even if they played the most wonderful pieces the night before, before they go in, they are two human beings. We need that. It's just this, "Why am I here for? Why am I joining this call? What do I want to...?" And again, it's the more tiny, tiny breather before you do something. If I have a meeting that I know is going to be important, what do I want to do? What is it? How can I show up the way I want to show up and don't allow others to just not give me the space or whatever? So, I think it's part of giving yourself that sacred tune, yourself to what's next. I love it, and I love the questions. And I think that could be tips for the audience as well, the tune in. And if I can get it from what you're saying, the tune in is basically tuning into yourself. And the question that you said, "How can I show up the way I want to show up? Why are we here for?" And I feel that that's part of bringing our intention. By being aware of our intention and asking ourselves why and tuning in, we're able to bring our inner sovereignty to the room. And I think that's where it gives space and freedom to be yourself. I love just your energy because that shows you are who you are. And by being who you are, there is more energy that we generate instead of trying to be someone else, trying to be perfect, where it's taking the energy out of ourselves.

Energy out. And again, you know, this opportunity to be there, let me tell you, there's another side of tuning in. Because when I do this reflection of how do I want to show up, on, you know, what's needed from me in this meeting, there's a lot of meetings that I do not participate because I have nothing to do there. And I am really helping my team say no to things. People just get the flow of, "I have to be everywhere." I don't need to. I'm OK. And, you know, it's just this check and balance and say, "I have two other team members that have, you know, my total back. If they need me, I will be pulled in." Why just join for the sake of joining? Those little things all start adding up. Go back to the comment you made. You were being the artist in your own world. So every day you show up and how, when, and how am I gonna paint my picture today? How am I gonna show up today? And even, yeah, the energy on this podcast today…

Oh my gosh, I wish the viewers could... I hope they can feel it because it's there. Like, I can totally feel that you've given us more than 100% of you in on this topic as well. So thank you.

Oh, my pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you. I've been on the edge of my seat the whole time. Thank you.

OK, we have a lightning round of questions to ask you, Mercedes, and these questions are like one to three-word answers or just quick responses. So, there's four:

• Where do you go for your inspiration? God.
• What is one habit you adopted that has greatly improved your career over time? Meditation.
• What is the one thing that keeps you moving forward each day? Gratitude.
• And what is the most valuable piece of advice you ever received? I have several, but I would say, "Do not say things that will not help in any way."
• Lovely. Christine, over to you to do a wrap-up for us.
• Thank you, Mercedes, for being here, for being you, for giving us a lot of inspiration, a lot of energy as I'm listening to you. And, hope for the listeners, you have a lot of insights from Mercedes here, and we wish you all the best. And we know how lucky our organization is to have you there. Yeah, thank you for being here with us.
• No, it's been a pleasure. I loved it. Thank you for the open conversation. Well, I knew I was in for a treat with this lovely invitation from both of you. So, thank you. And I hope your listeners are enjoying this as much as we did.

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