Episode 17: Jessica Tagler

Sheila Chester [00:00:00]:

All right, Jessica, why don't we just get started having our conversation? Can you tell me tell me who your family is?

Jessica Tagler [00:00:08]:

My family is my son King, who is twelve, and my daughter Ajana, who will be 17 this month, and my dog Jack. Jack, who I love dearly.

Sheila Chester [00:00:20]:

Do you have any, like, close friends or family where you live?

Jessica Tagler [00:00:25]:

So my sister is not far from me, my sister Genevieve. My friends are not close, however, but they did just fly in to see me last weekend all the way from South Dakota and New Mexico. So I've got amazing friends, but they're not close to me.

Sheila Chester [00:00:41]:

They do love you, don't they? I see your Facebook feed all the time. You guys spend probably three weekends a year or more together, don't you?

Jessica Tagler [00:00:50]:

Oh, yeah, we try to, definitely.

Sheila Chester [00:00:53]:

Why don't we dive into that friendship? Because you guys have all been connected through some interesting circumstances your entire lives.

Jessica Tagler [00:01:00]:

Yeah, absolutely. How long have you known them? More than 30 years. I think it starts in the fourth grade. Long time. We've been through a lot together. We have experienced some pretty amazing things together, and they've experienced amazing things in their lives, and it's just been quite a journey with all of them.

Sheila Chester [00:01:27]:

So how did your journey as a mother start?

Jessica Tagler [00:01:31]:

Well, as a biological mother, it started when I was 17. I had gotten pregnant in high school with my daughter Allison, who just celebrated her 25th birthday. It's fine, it's fine. She came along actually my senior year, about three months before I graduated high school. And I ended up giving her up for adoption. And we reconnected when she turned 18. She looked me up on Facebook and was able to find me by looking up my name, but it had been a closed adoption for 18 years. I had no idea where she was living. I was corresponding with her adoptive family through an adoption agency in South Dakota, and so I would see pictures and get letters and such, but I finally got to see her or talk to her through text messaging when she turned 18. We have yet to talk on the phone and we have yet to meet slowly but surely. And I'm just waiting for her whenever she's ready.

Sheila Chester [00:02:38]:

Doing the closed adoption and not really knowing how she's doing. So how did you get through that time?

Jessica Tagler [00:02:47]:

It was extremely emotional time, especially right after she was born. I did have the support of my mom always, which was good, and my friends. But I think just receiving those letters and pictures and knowing in my heart of hearts that she was doing very well, it was a good feeling just to know that she was being well taken care of. And she said, thank you for giving me such a good life. I have had a great life, and thank you so much for giving birth to me because there was a point, a very short point in time where I was considering an abortion just because of the guilt and shame and fear that's associated with teen pregnancy. But by the grace of God, that did not happen, and she was very grateful for that as well.

Sheila Chester [00:03:38]:

I'm going to tell this cute little story. I remember when you were pregnant in high school. We went to high school together because we did this prom dress exchange, and you were probably seven or eight months pregnant and trying on all of the dresses in Miss Cavell's room and just laughing hysterically. And the joy. I'll never forget that day, just like I did not see the shame in your face. You were always laughing. You're always laughing. That's wonderful.

Jessica Tagler [00:04:18]:

Mrs. Philvell was a huge also support system during that whole time. She was very light hearted teacher, and she really gave me good advice. And she'd always say, every time I was complaining because I did that quite a bit, she would say, Jessica, you're just pregnant. That's only thing that's wrong with you. And I'm like, I don't feel good. No, you're just pregnant. She was amazing. Love her.

Sheila Chester [00:04:45]:

What was your experience with the rest of the school? Because it was a really small school that we went to and a really small town, so there's no secrets. You can't keep secrets.

Jessica Tagler [00:04:55]:

Well, everyone was very kind to my face, but when you are a young girl that's pregnant in high school, there's always that gossiping, especially in a small school, gossiping, talking behind your back, making their judgments. And of course, nobody did it to me, but there's always just that stigma that goes with it, you know what I mean? I was very grateful for the people that were close to me during that time. But at school, the teachers were cool. They were real cool. Especially I just remembered Mr. Nelson just being, yeah, real accommodating, giving me the big old table in the back of the classroom because I couldn't fit in the desks toward the end of the pregnancy. And he was just very accommodating. He was awful. So I appreciate those teachers, I really do.

Sheila Chester [00:05:54]:

That's incredible. Obviously, it's a traumatic experience, but.

Jessica Tagler [00:06:02]:

It.

Sheila Chester [00:06:03]:

Could have been worse.

Jessica Tagler [00:06:05]:

It was extremely traumatic, and it was extremely traumatic, even to the point where I drove by Rapid City Regional Hospital when I was visiting a few years ago. And just driving by that hospital, I was like, oh. Because when you leave the hospital and you give your baby up for adoption, there is something terribly wrong, terribly missing. You carried this baby for nine months, and then all of a sudden she's not with you anymore. It's very traumatic. And I just thank God that I am in communication with her, just knowing that she's just living her best life. She's going to get married this year. I'm so happy.

Sheila Chester [00:06:47]:

That's so exciting. I'm so glad you have that. For people who have had closed adoptions. A lot of times they don't get to meet and, like, thank God. It's the age of Facebook and social media, where that is a bonus that it's easy to be found and you've let yourself also be easy to be found, too. I mean, you're not hiding, so that's amazing. And hopefully someday the sisters get a meet and the brother and sister get a meet. Like, that would be oh, absolutely.

Jessica Tagler [00:07:19]:

And they want to. And my daughter is communicating with her via Snapchat or whatever, so they're just fully but surely building a relationship. But, yeah, my son definitely wants to meet her. We all do.

Sheila Chester [00:07:32]:

So after you leave high school, you've placed this child. I have lost track of you after that. I have no idea what your life was like after that.

Jessica Tagler [00:07:41]:

It was very interesting. As you know, born and raised in Edgemont, lived there for 18 years, and just gave a baby up for adoption and had really no direction in life whatsoever. My mom reached out to her family on the East Coast in Maryland and said, can she come and live with you? Because she knew that they were a good family and I would have more opportunity there. They're like. Sure. Come on. So I moved to Maryland, got into very dark place there emotionally, and really still not on the track for success at all. I think I was kind of lost it a little bit. I had been through that whole situation with Alison and, you know, didn't know where I wanted to be, didn't know what I wanted to do, no direction, no real guidance or anything until my sister Genevieve. One day, she called me from Phoenix, and she's like, hey, I moved here. Will you come live with me? I'm like, sure. I'm not doing anything. So I got in my little car, and when I was 20 years old and drove from Maryland to Arizona by myself without a cell phone, using Map bus by the day.

Sheila Chester [00:08:55]:

I don't even know how that how did you even make it to Arizona?

Jessica Tagler [00:08:59]:

No, I'm not sure. There was no fear, I guess, back then, because it was do or die, and I did it. So I got here, and Genevieve had also given a son up for adoption the same time I gave Alison up for adoption. And so it was a crazy time in our lives. By the time I came to Arizona, we were just complete alcoholics together and just partied hard and on a fast track to absolutely nowhere. Until one day what amazing day, we had been invited to this church, faith Christian Center, 26 40 East McDowell Road, Phoenix, Arizona, if anybody wants to visit. And we walked into that church. We got supernaturally saved and delivered of all of our demons, and that's the best way that I can put it. And Jenna's version, of course, is much better than mine, but it put us on a completely different road, leading us to Naomi house, leading me to go to school, all these amazing things. So that's where I was in early 2000.

Sheila Chester [00:10:16]:

I got to tell you, I didn't have any trauma growing up, other than being a teenager, which was extremely traumatic. And my 20s were awful. Like, those first years out of high school, from a small town to a big city, I was in college, but changing majors all the time, it was awful. And then to imagine having a traumatic situation happen to you like that right after you leave, and then everything changes, and you're trying to deal with something so emotional, and you have only yourself to try to figure it out. It's so hard.

Jessica Tagler [00:10:58]:

So hard.

Sheila Chester [00:10:59]:

Just because we're 18 and we walk out into the universe, I feel like go to, like, at least a year of therapy before they let us leave.

Jessica Tagler [00:11:08]:

One year, if not five. Absolutely. I mean, it's necessary. We don't know anything when we're 18. And I had the guidance of Genevieve, especially in our early 20s. Thank God. I thank God for saving me from what could have been, because it should have turned out very different than it is. I should be probably addicted to drugs somewhere on the streets. My kids should have probably been taken away from me, you know what I mean? But God put us on a completely different path. And so I'm here today because of Jesus, and that's the only reason that I am in my right mind and my life is the way it is.

Sheila Chester [00:11:52]:

Yeah, I feel that to the core. And how is your faith? I know you kind of talked about that, but how has your faith shaped you as a mother?

Jessica Tagler [00:12:06]:

Well, I had to heal from so much in my life. It wasn't all roses. Even after I got saved, there was a lot that took place, and I definitely leaned on Genevieve and Jesus, and that shaped me to be the mom that I am today and able to instill in my kids. Faith. Forgiveness. Oh, God. Forgiveness, I think, is the key to anything. Anything that you forgiveness. Absolutely. So there was a major healing process, and that took place while I was at Naomi house for all those years, and that's what has shaped me to be the mom that I am today.

Sheila Chester [00:12:50]:

And how are you preparing your kids to I mean, your daughter's almost 18. How are you preparing her for adulthood? You're like, you're living in my basement for the rest of your life.

Jessica Tagler [00:13:02]:

Well, that's all there is to it. I'm like, don't go. That's my secret. Right? And of course, just telling her that no matter what, I am always going to be here for you. And if you ever find yourself in a situation that you can't get out of, please just let me know. There's no judgment. There's no fear of me being mad or whatever, and I hate to say that she's perfect, Sheila, but she's borderline just wow. Like, completely different than I was in high school. And I am very confident that Ajana. Is going to be successful no matter what she puts her mind to. She is amazing, but just trying to teach her about the responsibilities of being an adult.

Sheila Chester [00:13:54]:

Gross. I don't even like the responsibilities of being an adult.

Jessica Tagler [00:13:58]:

Now.

Sheila Chester [00:13:59]:

Seriously raising kids. So you've been a single mom to your two kids for 17 years, is that right?

Jessica Tagler [00:14:11]:

That's correct, yes.

Sheila Chester [00:14:13]:

How's that gone?

Jessica Tagler [00:14:14]:

Oh, I wouldn't recommend it. I wouldn't recommend it, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. And that's another thing I tell my kids, one spouse with all your kids, have all your kids when you get married. Don't rush to get married, but just wait on god when it comes to that, because I think that that's probably the most difficult job on this planet, is single parent. And again, I've had a lot of help from my sister and my sisters, Jennifer also. And living at Naomi house, I was able to be a stay at home mom, which thank you, god, for Naomi house. And other than that, it has been very difficult.

Sheila Chester [00:15:01]:

And not only are you a single mom, but you're a single mom to biracial kids.

Jessica Tagler [00:15:07]:

Yeah, absolutely.

Sheila Chester [00:15:08]:

So that makes it a little bit harder, even.

Jessica Tagler [00:15:12]:

It does. And my daughter has taught me a lot about being black in America that I never knew, of course, because I grew up in South Dakota and because I'm white. So I've learned a lot through her. And that has definitely presented challenges, for sure.

Sheila Chester [00:15:30]:

It sounds like you have given birth to your own personal counselor.

Jessica Tagler [00:15:34]:

Yeah, exactly. She's my best friend and my therapist all in one.

Sheila Chester [00:15:40]:

Yeah, you really saved some money on that. That's a good call.

Jessica Tagler [00:15:44]:

That was my plan the whole time.

Sheila Chester [00:15:46]:

Planned that one out. All right, we've talked about Naomi house a little bit. Why don't you tell me? Tell me about this organization, because I'd really like to know more, and it sounds amazing. And all the things that you post.

Jessica Tagler [00:15:58]:

About these kids, I want to know it all. So Naomi is an acronym for native American outreach ministries incorporated. And I think it's so interesting, the whole aspect of Naomi house, it is an emergency placement, shelter and foster home for native American kiddos in northern Arizona. And my baby, Allison, she is a half lakota Sioux. And I think it's so interesting how god brought me back to native American children after I gave up my native American for adoption. And it's beautiful, you know what I mean? I just felt like I had the opportunity to raise my native Americans. So let's see. Genevieve, when she was living in Phoenix, she graduated from bible school and she googled native American ministry and found Naomi house. And that's how we stumbled upon it. And she is the executive director of Naomi House, www.thenamihouse.org for all the information. But I lived in a home with ten kids plus my own, and raised them, and it was hectic and crazy, and there was so much grace and love all at the same time. And I actually have moved from there last August, I moved back to the Valley, maybe temporarily, maybe not forever, but I go back to Naomi House every other weekend. It's a three and a half hour drive because I cannot stay away. And so I'm definitely still affiliated with them. But, yeah, it's a home that started in 1993 by Linda Thompson, and we are contracted with the Navajo Nation Department of Social Services, and they send us some pretty tough cases our way. I've heard and seen just about everything that these precious children have experienced and are experienced on most reservations throughout the United States. A lot of physical abuse, sexual abuse, abandonment, everything you can think of, these kids have gone through. And they've, in their seven years of life, have seen more than I probably ever will. And they come into our home, and they are scared and vulnerable. And somehow, because it's a Christ centered facility, I believe there is so much healing that takes place in their hearts and minds and bodies while they're with us. And some are with us for three weeks, and some have been with us for eight years and everything in between. And it's an amazing ministry. And we have just recently, this year, expanded onto the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota.

Sheila Chester [00:18:39]:

How many different kids have come and gone? Like, how many kids can you keep in the Naomi House? And how does the foster system work for reservations and Native Americans? Is it separate from the government foster system?

Jessica Tagler [00:18:55]:

It is, as far as licensing requirements go, and I don't really know the major logistics to it. Their system is a lot further behind than the state system, so they're still trying to figure out their logistics. Right. So we have a ten bed home in Arizona for emergency sheltered children, and they come just on an emergency basis, but they end up staying for quite a while because these families, there's nowhere else for them to go because of the epidemic of drugs and alcohol on the reservation. It takes a long time for mom, if ever, to get her kids back. And then we have a six bedroom, long term foster care home, so we have anywhere from 15 to 25 kids on the property at all times.

Sheila Chester [00:19:48]:

Oh, wow. And how many adults are there?

Jessica Tagler [00:19:51]:

Well, on average, there's been five adults, maybe. And so it was a crazy time, but we are evolving into something that is actually working. We have more adults now. We have a better system. We have somebody responsible for cooking meals, and we have long term health parents that have been there for over a decade, and they are so committed and they're amazing people, and the kids are incredible. And then we just started a young adult program for our kids that are aging out because there's nowhere for them to go. What are they going to do except go back to the reservation, which we've had kids do that before, and we found that they have become addicted to young parents and even had one of our kiddos commit suicide. And so there's a huge need for an aging out program, which we're just in the beginning works of right now. Some of our kids have graduated, have jobs, or are going to school, and so it's a cool thing to be a part of now.

Sheila Chester [00:20:56]:

Are there, like, scholarships and programs for Native American kids to get into community colleges or how do you even I.

Jessica Tagler [00:21:08]:

Think that the tribe, like, they get a certain amount of money when they turn 18. It's not a lot of money, but it's just something to give them that they could spend that in less than a few months. Yeah, it's not a lot of money. So I don't know exactly how they would pay for community college. I just know that the opportunity is there with the location of Naomi Health. There's a community college about 15 minutes away, and I'm also working, so I know that we're always looking for donations for our emergency shelter and foster kids, but I think we need to start really promoting this young adult program because these kids are good kids. They're so amazing, you know what I mean? And they just want a shot at life like the rest of us did at that age. So the opportunity is there, but we just need the resources.

Sheila Chester [00:22:06]:

Both you and I talked about what happened to us emotionally after high school, and you had trauma. I had no trauma. We both experienced hardships emotionally after high school. These kids have tremendous trauma and they're leaving the foster system with the clothes on their back and no direction and no other than, I guess, the Naomi house adults who are watching ten other kids, and it may be the same kids every week or different kids every week, but who do they have to come back to that they really can trust? It's not like we can go to Grandma's house or Mom's house without being potentially exposed to drugs and alcohol. And that's a scary situation, like, where's your safe space? And if there is no money to put them in a post foster house or a post foster program, then they have no choice but to go back to what they knew.

Jessica Tagler [00:23:12]:

Yeah, and that's why we ended up losing one to suicide, some tube and just drug addiction, is because there is no place for them to go. Not yet, anyway. And that's why I'm so that Naomi House is that place that they can always come back to. And we have had kids that have come back. We actually have a young lady that's interning there that I raised from when she was five years old, and now she's come back to be an intern. And that's the whole point. We want our kids to come back and then serve there and then eventually be employed with us.

Sheila Chester [00:23:54]:

Right. That's their path. If you can encourage that. All right, well, I will definitely post all the Naomi house information. Is there anything else you want to say about Naomi house? And, like, how okay, I have a question. How did Naomi house shape your kids growing up with other kids that have gone through these situations?

Jessica Tagler [00:24:14]:

Well, I think that well, they love it there. That was home. You know what I mean? It was just like being raised with a bunch of brothers and sisters. That's what they consider them to be. Imagine just having your own team of kids constantly, and there's so much land out there. They can run around and play and have fun and be kids, and it's a place for children. So they had a blast growing up there. And they, of course, built long life relationships, and it was like having a bunch of siblings. And there was never jealousy of mom not spending all of her time with you, or my attention was definitely shared, and there was never any jealousy because of that. And so now she loves the babies.

Sheila Chester [00:25:04]:

Of course.

Jessica Tagler [00:25:05]:

We all do. We love them babies. It's just a lot of fun.

Sheila Chester [00:25:10]:

Do you have any native American in you?

Jessica Tagler [00:25:13]:

So my mom is enrolled in the Lakota Sioux tribe on the pine ridge reservation in South Dakota. So, yes, I have Lakota Sioux on my mom's side and generate actually is enrolled with the tribe. I never did enroll with the tribe. I don't know why. I just haven't done it yet. But I don't know if you've ever been on the pine ridge reservation, Sheila, but it is the poorest reservation in the United States, and it's compared to a third world country.

Sheila Chester [00:25:42]:

Yeah, we played basketball games out there, and it was terrifying.

Jessica Tagler [00:25:48]:

Remember the big drum in the girls locker room?

Sheila Chester [00:25:52]:

The what?

Jessica Tagler [00:25:53]:

Remember the there was a big drum in there. Yeah, it was very interesting.

Sheila Chester [00:25:59]:

But yes, anything that had to do with basketball, jessica, I have PTSD, and I don't want to talk about it.

Jessica Tagler [00:26:06]:

That's hilarious, and that's fair. But yeah. My grandmother, my mom's mom, and my grandpa, they own 600 lake acres on the reservation and donated it to Naomi house for this Naomi house that's out there. So that's my grandparents land that this Naomi house is built on.

Sheila Chester [00:26:29]:

Oh, that's extra special.

Jessica Tagler [00:26:32]:

Hold on.

Sheila Chester [00:26:33]:

I'm opening playdoh.

Jessica Tagler [00:26:34]:

Okay.

Sheila Chester [00:26:34]:

We can't open all the playdoh.

Jessica Tagler [00:26:36]:

Okay.

Sheila Chester [00:26:36]:

Just some of it. Thank you. All right, what are some things we can educate the public on regarding native Americans and the state of reservations?

Jessica Tagler [00:26:49]:

There is a huge need for children's homes on every single reservation. These kids are experiencing more trauma than you and I will ever know. We need a lot of prayer. We need people to sow into the resources that are available for Native American kids such as homes like Naomi House. It's necessary and vital for these kids'lives and futures. I think that prayer is probably the most important thing for these kiddos. But just, you know, educating yourself on how this cycle that they're going through has started and just knowing where it stems from as far as how white people have contributed to what they're experiencing today. And I hate to put it like that, but it is what it is. Their resources are so limited. Also, I think that there's a stigma associated with Native Americans that they're just lazy drunks, right? And that's actually not what it is. They just don't have a way out of where they live and they don't have what you and I have. They don't have the know how. They don't have the education. They can't just go get a job. It's just not that simple. And so I think it's real important not to put them in that category. They're beautiful human beings, and their culture is so beautiful and they have so much to teach us. If we would just take a minute to listen and learn.

Sheila Chester [00:28:26]:

I have several churches that I know that do mission trips to Pine Ridge all the time. Is that beneficial? Do the Native Americans like having a bunch of white people coming up digging holes for them? Is that helpful?

Jessica Tagler [00:28:39]:

That's a really good question. There's so many benefits to the body of Christ coming and serving on reservations for Native Americans. But what I would suggest is don't do it the white way. Like, really just learn the culture, ask questions. Ask them, what is it that we can do for you to be helpful? And then listen to them, right? Because we have our ideas of what we can do to help. But let's hear it from them of what they need us to do. Because there's so many they're beautiful people. They are such beautiful people. They are kind, quiet, patient, and very wise people. And I think that if we just took time to listen to their needs that that would be the most helpful thing. But it's absolutely vital that mission trips come. That's how Naomi House survive, by the way, is because there's so many mission trips that come throughout the year to help us. Without them, we wouldn't be able to do what we do. And that's the truth.

Sheila Chester [00:29:42]:

And the other question is, and I don't know if you can answer this, but foster kids on the reservation don't go to families off the reservation. Is that correct, or can they?

Jessica Tagler [00:29:55]:

So non Native Americans can foster Native Americans. It depends on the tribe. But in general, they don't adopt Native Americans out of the tribe or to non Native Americans. But, yeah, anybody can foster. But as far as adoption, especially within the Navajo tribe, they want to keep it within the Navajo.

Sheila Chester [00:30:17]:

Right. And I talked about that on one of my other podcast interviews where we talked about ICWA and the Indian rights and how you want to keep the culture together, which makes complete sense, considering what white America has done to Native American children.

Jessica Tagler [00:30:35]:

They do want to keep it within.

Sheila Chester [00:30:36]:

The tribe, fully understandable and raise them as Native American children.

Jessica Tagler [00:30:44]:

I have learned so much just from living at Naomi House. I've learned so much from the social workers that I work with, the Native American social workers, from the families, and from the children themselves. They teach us so much about the Native culture, and so it is something that people need to be educated on, including myself.

Sheila Chester [00:31:03]:

And how does faith enter into the Native American culture? They have their own faith.

Jessica Tagler [00:31:08]:

Do they have a Christian faith? Yeah, there's a lot of Christian Native Americans that we know personally that have the same beliefs that we have as far as Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit and all that. But there's a lot of tradition, too, right? They definitely have their traditional belief system, and I would say that that's pretty common among most Native American families, that's the most common thing is traditional beliefs as far as dances. Traditional dances. Their traditions are amazing, too. There's a couple that I don't personally agree with, but it's amazing to learn about what they do. So, yeah, I would say most families are traditional.

Sheila Chester [00:31:54]:

And how is working with Naomi House and with these kids, how has that shaped your life?

Jessica Tagler [00:32:02]:

It's taught me to be a lot more gracious, a lot more understanding, not so judgmental that there's more in this world besides what I know. And I need to be open to learning and loving. Even if I don't agree with you, I still love you. And it just took me out of the box that I would put myself in, just because I only knew what I knew growing up. And so it's definitely just opened my eyes to a whole new way of living, and it's beautiful.

Sheila Chester [00:32:41]:

What advice would you give somebody who's been through some of the same things that you've been through?

Jessica Tagler [00:32:49]:

Oh, man. One of my passions in life is mentoring teenage girls, and I always tell them, Give yourself grace. Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody goes through stuff that they wish they hadn't gone through. Give yourself grace. Forgive quickly. Anybody that has wronged you intentionally or unintentionally, forgive them quickly. It's going to benefit you in the long run. I love Joyce Meyer. She says, unforgiveness is like drinking a bottle of poison and expecting it to hurt the other person. And I always think about that whenever I feel unforgiveness. And so forgive, forgive, forgive. And I would just say, no matter what you've been through, there's always healing available if you want it, and no matter where you've. Been. You can always change where you're going, and life is not final until your final breath. The possibilities are endless if you put your mind to it and trust in God.

Sheila Chester [00:34:00]:

That's really good advice that you just threw out there randomly.

Jessica Tagler [00:34:05]:

Well, you know, I had been practicing all morning.

Sheila Chester [00:34:11]:

You have so many good words, Jessica.

Jessica Tagler [00:34:13]:

I'm so impressed. Thank you.

Sheila Chester [00:34:18]:

What else should we talk about? I got, like, ten more minutes left. Come on, give me some more information.

Jessica Tagler [00:34:24]:

Let's see, what else can I tell.

Sheila Chester [00:34:27]:

You about your life? I don't know. You've had an interesting life.

Jessica Tagler [00:34:34]:

I have had an interesting life. I really have. I made some mistakes along the way, but I think that those mistakes have turned me into person I am today. And how cliche to say, but it's true. And I love my kids. I don't think that I'm the best mom. I do have a lot of self doubt when it comes to being a good mom, but I think a lot of moms feel that way. And in reality, I think we're pretty freaking great. We make the world run. Women are amazing in general. It's so funny how the amount of tasks that a woman can take on simultaneously all day, every day and get the job done, and I think that we don't give ourselves enough credit as women and as mothers, and I have to remind myself, you know what? I'm doing a pretty great job. These kids are awesome. I have provided for them as well as I can, and so I just need to give myself more grace. How about you? How do you feel you are as a mom? Because you're kind of terrible. You are kind of a super disagree.

Sheila Chester [00:35:50]:

My son would disagree. He's pushing every button that I didn't know existed. Jessica. Like, I don't even know. I'll say something to him, and then I'll walk into my room and like, oh, no, did I say the right thing? What if I said the wrong thing and he wrecked in ten years? He'll be like, remember that time when I was nine and that thing? And now I'm just living my life the way that you told me that one time.

Jessica Tagler [00:36:13]:

I seriously have fears that my kids are going to just, you know, need therapy when they're older. But, I mean, let's just call that.

Sheila Chester [00:36:24]:

A hope that they are in therapy to deal with the trauma that we've given them.

Jessica Tagler [00:36:29]:

Right.

Sheila Chester [00:36:30]:

You have a choice, kids. Do you want to go to college or therapy because they cost the same amount? I can't afford either.

Jessica Tagler [00:36:36]:

Exactly. No, it's fine. I mean, I'm sure it's going to.

Sheila Chester [00:36:41]:

Be probably most likely going to be fine, or they're going to live on the street. It's great.

Jessica Tagler [00:36:47]:

Everything's great. Yeah.

Sheila Chester [00:36:49]:

Constant fear that I'm not doing the right thing.

Jessica Tagler [00:36:51]:

I don't know.

Sheila Chester [00:36:52]:

Do dads have these same fears? I think maybe my husband does. I don't know.

Jessica Tagler [00:36:59]:

I don't know. I don't know if they have that same fear. I think their fear is not being able to provide. I think that's the most important thing for a man. I really don't know. But I don't know if they nitpick every little thought in their head like women. Yeah. I found something out so fascinating years ago about men. Did you know that they have a compartment in their brain called the nothing box? How do I get one of them? And they can go to this place in their brain and they are literally thinking about I don't know how that is possible. Can you imagine?

Sheila Chester [00:37:32]:

That sounds amazing.

Jessica Tagler [00:37:34]:

It really does. And so when they're watching football, they're literally just watching football and not thinking about I don't understand.

Sheila Chester [00:37:40]:

I think that sounds like a waste of time is what that sounds like.

Jessica Tagler [00:37:45]:

We could be getting so many thoughts done right now.

Sheila Chester [00:37:48]:

What are you doing in Phoenix now? What did you move? You moved from the Naomi house to what are you doing now?

Jessica Tagler [00:37:56]:

So I'm still with Naomi part time. Right now I am working within the Division of Developmental Disabilities, but one of the things I'm doing is getting my daughter through high school. And I just felt like there was just a little bit more opportunity here since we were living in a very small town in northern Arizona, and so just wanted to give her that experience and opportunity. So she's finishing up her junior year. She may graduate next December, a few months early. So I'm here for now, and I'm enjoying my time with my children because I do have a lot more time with them as opposed to at Naomi house and who knows where I'm going to be in a year or two. I don't have any real plans, which is how I've lived my whole life, by the way. Just kind of just kind of go with the flow and go as God leads. And I'm not really going to stay in one place for too long, I don't think.

Sheila Chester [00:38:57]:

And what is giving you hope right.

Jessica Tagler [00:39:00]:

Now that my kids are getting older? That's the truth. I mean, it does get easier as children get older and become more independent. And I'm so grateful for that because it was real tough when they were little kids, as you know, my faith and just knowing that I'm in the palm of God's hand no matter where I go. And I have a lot of assurance in that and just still taking it, sometimes one day at a time. I do struggle sometimes with feeling anxious about life and am I doing the right thing and am I in the right direction? But I feel like as long as I'm in his hands, I cannot go wrong. That's where my hope comes from.