Back to the Office! BnB Breaks Down Outrageous Back To Work Perks

[00:00:04.420] - Dan Paulson

Good.

[00:00:06.150] - Dan Paulson

Day, and welcome to Books and the biz. I am back here with my good friend Rich Veltre. Rich, how are you doing today?

[00:00:12.540] - Rich Veltre

I am doing fabulous.

[00:00:14.620] - Dan Paulson

So we've been reading stuff, and I thought this would be a pretty good article I'd send to you to talk about some things. Because one of the things we often learn from our clients is they still struggle finding people and keeping people. But one of the biggest challenges is getting people into the office. There are many companies that are still trying to find ways to get people to come back to work, because let's face it, most people like working from home. It's a lot easier. There's less travel. You don't have to worry about a car. You can have the kids in the background screaming and crying and doing everything else amongst other things. But you had also brought up something that WeWork is struggling a little bit.

[00:01:00.490] - Rich Veltre

Yeah, I saw the headline yesterday. I don't have too many more details on it, but it said that WeWork is headed into the bankruptcy courts. Apparently, they are announcing that they are going to be in there in as little as a week. I'm waiting to see if that's for real, if it's a mild suggestion. Not sure. It's been talked about for years now, so I'm not surprised at all, but it has a wide reaching effect.

[00:01:34.590] - Dan Paulson

That's also a sign that even the people, the independent contractors and the small business owners aren't going back to the office anymore because that's pretty much what all those people were. But this is what prompted the story or our discussion today. I found this in The Wall Street Journal, the nine most over the top perks companies are using to bring workers back to the office. And I thought we would just spend some time today going down each one, spending a minute or two on why we believe they will or won't work. I think when I looked through the list, I scratched my head and said, yeah, this probably isn't going to do it. It's going to have to find something else to get people back in the office. But yeah, let's just take a moment to talk about them. So I'll be scrolling through these here. But the basic premise is companies are trying to find new and creative ways to get people come back to the office and actually spend time at their desk instead of sitting at home. Getting credit for leaving your car at home. So walking to work, or taking a bike, doing something other than driving your vehicle.

[00:02:49.120] - Dan Paulson

So let me tell you how exciting that's going to be for me in Wisconsin. It is November at the time you guys are seeing this. So if you watch this video in the future, it could be a nice sunny day, and you might say, well, what's the problem with that? Well, today is about 30 degrees outside, and I am not biking anywhere. I'm going to hop in my nice warm truck with my heated steering wheel and my heated seats, and I'm going to go wherever I need to go. On top of that, where I need to go is going to be 50 miles away from my house. So biking is out of the question. I could really see this if you're in someplace like maybe where you're at Rich in New Jersey or Manhattan, where it's probably actually better or easier to get around on a bike. Of course, I've seen how they drive in Manhattan, so I have some concerns there. But I really don't see providing a monthly credit for walking or biking to work being a benefit that's going to draw me back in the office. How about you?

[00:03:49.810] - Rich Veltre

Yeah, I was in New York City last night and it was 30 degrees. And I think for me, I'm not that far from New York City, but 50 miles I can't walk. And yes, even getting to the train station is a hike. So I'm not really feeling this one, although it is a move back to when there was a very big push to get people to use mass transit and offering tax incentives or-.

[00:04:26.120] - Dan Paulson

Yeah, I guess hopping on the train counts.

[00:04:30.570] - Rich Veltre

But it also took all day.

[00:04:33.880] - Dan Paulson

Yes.

[00:04:34.250] - Rich Veltre

The train ride was an hour and 10 minutes. We had to get to the train station. So we went by car to the train station. We still had to take the car there. And then we went an hour and so minutes to New York City and then taking an Uber. So by the time I was done, $50 didn't cut it.

[00:04:55.640] - Dan Paulson

Well, I think that's a sign that we're... And you're in a city that is set up with some pretty decent public transportation. I look out here at Madison, they're trying to improve the different bus lines and whatnot. And that's been their number one complaint, is where six months ago I could hop on the bus, I could get to where I'm going in less than an hour. Now because of the way they rerouted, everything's to make it faster. It now takes two and a half hours, and people have gone out and bought a car instead. So again, head scratcher for me, probably a little bit more understandable for you. But then here's the next one, number two. So drop the ball, get paid time to participate in intramural sports clubs. I guess for some people, if you're already prone to do that, because we have different intramural leagues out here in the Midwest too. Again, bigger cities tend to have more and you still got to get there. But I don't know if I were an employee, if this would be attractive enough for me.

[00:06:00.960] - Rich Veltre

I think there's a disconnect. I think that this is really just a throwback to when I was with a big firm and half of the firm would go and play basketball after work was over.

[00:06:18.160] - Dan Paulson

Exactly.

[00:06:19.370] - Rich Veltre

But once I had a family, there was no way that I would be having generally the time to do that. So I'm not really sure who are they trying to get back into the office? Because I think you're only going to deal with the people who can spend the time to go do this, I guess, or unless you're telling me come into the office, but then leave the office to go play basketball and when you come back.

[00:06:46.420] - Dan Paulson

Yeah, you got to come back to get your paid time off.

[00:06:50.710] - Rich Veltre

Yeah. So you're not really getting any work done if you're coming in to go play basketball or play in a Mural League. So I'm not following quite the logic. Getting people healthy, I get it. That's one of the things people want to do. It's one of their complaints why they want to be able to work from home because they don't have the time to go. Instead of commuting, they'd have the time to go do something that would be healthy.

[00:07:12.940] - Dan Paulson

Exactly.

[00:07:14.080] - Rich Veltre

Are we getting there with the interview? I'm not sure.

[00:07:18.780] - Dan Paulson

Yeah. I just really struggle again because most people, like you said, when you've got family and stuff, if this is outside of the normal work hours, it's going to be a harder sell to get people to do. Okay, number three here. So beyond leave, comprehensive family planning benefits and stipends for expect mothers. Okay, that sounds good. This is something that to me is a good retention. I think it'll keep people in your company because let's face it, having a kid is not cheap. But again, is this something that's going to get you to come back to the office? And I'm not sure if this is an option that most people are going to look at and say, yeah, this is going to get me back in to sit at my desk for two or three days a week, or even five days a week. It's a nice perk to have. And I think if you're looking to start a family or you know you're going to have a family, it would definitely attract people in. But I would assume that with that, then you're also working into the agreement the hiring agreement that they need to spend time in the office.

[00:08:33.530] - Dan Paulson

So getting that new employee, yes. Keeping an existing employee or getting that existing employee to show up? Probably not.

[00:08:41.090] - Rich Veltre

Yeah, I agree with you that the the mention part of it, I think other than that, it just resonates with a lot of the companies back that I worked with over the years that already had some benefit towardexpect the mothers. So I think some of this is just an old perk repackaged.

[00:09:10.850] - Dan Paulson

I agree with you. That seems to be the common theme here. This is, I can't remember. Actually, it was Old Wine, New bottle, I think is the way it was put. So then number four, farm to conference table. So having your internal farmers market where you get free food, is that enough to get you to come back to the office? And how often? I could see showing up when the free food shows up on Thursday that I get my box of goodies and I stay in the office for that day. But is it going to get me to come back three to five days a week? I'm not so sure.

[00:09:46.140] - Rich Veltre

You're not coming in on Friday.

[00:09:47.780] - Dan Paulson

Hell no. If it's at Tito's, I'm sipping my bloody Marys or Mimosa. Yeah, I think it's going to be another difficult thing that isn't going to necessarily create the outcomes you want. Now, again, if you have a culture like that that does attract people in, it's very possible it could. But I'd be curious how well it would actually do for most companies. Outfit aid. So yearly subscription for clothing rental services.

[00:10:21.530] - Rich Veltre

I'm actually interested in that one.

[00:10:23.220] - Dan Paulson

That would get you back in.

[00:10:24.930] - Rich Veltre

The office? I don't know. It depends. I happen to know some of those services are actually really good, and that was one of the complaints that people had. Your outfits are different. What you can wear to go to the office in the expected uniform, call it a uniform, but the expected attire can cost you more because one is different than being to, I just wake up, go to my computer and I'm working for eight hours. It's very productive, right?

[00:10:54.050] - Dan Paulson

As long as nobody has to see you can do it in your pajamas if you want.

[00:10:58.880] - Rich Veltre

Yeah. And I'm not really talking about me. I'm talking about the people that complain that this is one of the things that's an issue. When I can work at home, it's much more efficient. I'm on Zoom or whatever and I have a certain attire, that's fine. And then to go to the office, it's different. So something like this might actually be squashing one of the complaints of why people don't want to go back to the office. I think really to me, it's twofold. It's a little bit of the cost and it's a little bit of the time. Commute to New York here, you leave it the wrong time, it could take you two and a half hours. Good point. If you leave it really early time, you can get around it. But cost is still there, too. I mean, it was a $30 round trip for a train. It's $20, I think, to go through the tunnel. The point here is this is what the people are complaining about. Throwing them a head of lettuce is not going to change the answer. But maybe changing some of the cost of what it costs them in a tire actually translates to dollars for dollars, right?

[00:12:09.400] - Dan Paulson

Yeah, I do agree with you. I think this is the best one, I would say, of the ones we've read through so far because I agree with you. It can be real expensive to build up a wardrobe for work, especially if you're required to wear certain types of shirts or certain types of pants. Plus then it's keeping the look fresh. Well, if you can do it through a subscription and that way, yeah, that's a nice perk to have.

[00:12:35.900] - Rich Veltre

It attacks one piece, but not the two. Exactly.

[00:12:38.870] - Dan Paulson

So this one is similar to the health club thing or the paid to work out. Pickleball, which I've never played, I guess, is becoming a very popular thing. I see pickleball courts going up everywhere. But what they're talking about is put in an on-site pickleball court in your parking lot. Will this do it?

[00:13:04.440] - Rich Veltre

On its own?

[00:13:05.470] - Dan Paulson

On its own. Will this do it?

[00:13:07.530] - Rich Veltre

I don't think so. I mean, look, I get it. I really do get it that if you attack the health part of it and you give them an opportunity that the worker could get some perk for still having the ability to get what they were getting when they were home, maybe. But I don't think it's enough. I don't think Pickleball alone is enough.

[00:13:30.720] - Dan Paulson

Well, I think this is more attacking a trend because Pickleball is a trend. I would guess five years ago, most people hadn't even heard of what pick-a-ball was.

[00:13:40.380] - Dan Paulson

And.

[00:13:40.740] - Dan Paulson

Now we're seeing pick-a-ball be everywhere. So here's number seven, money laundering. Hey, I have a place down at Ozark. Ozark show was all about money laundering. Is that what they mean here? I don't think so. And it looks like they made a financial advisor available to their employees. I don't see this as anything new. With the exception of really small companies, most of the companies I know that are somewhat sizable typically work with some advisory, and a lot of this is through their 401(k)s. Whoever you have assigned to administer your 401(k), usually they provide advisory services for employees for free.

[00:14:25.610] - Rich Veltre

I think again, it's an old perk, rewrapped. I don't think it's enough to say, Let me go to the office five days a week and somebody will help me put together a budget. I don't feel that one. I think it's too small for what you need to get the people back in. I think.

[00:14:47.920] - Dan Paulson

It's- That leads us to... This is the deal breaker, Rich. This is the one that will get me into the office every day of the week. Shoot, not ladders. So they are now putting slides between floors that you can take. So you don't have to walk the stairs, because as I think they said on here, stairs are just old hat. They're not that good anymore. So you can hop on a slide, and you can go down to the floor, and then you can take that down the next floor, and so on. Again, this seems very kitsy and just not really... I'm not go in the office to go on a slide. I got a playground across the parking lot here or across the street in the local park if I want to go on a slide.

[00:15:38.150] - Dan Paulson

Not.

[00:15:38.530] - Dan Paulson

My thing. Not going to do it for me.

[00:15:40.960] - Rich Veltre

Yeah, I'm agreeing with.

[00:15:41.790] - Dan Paulson

You there. This is back with foosball tables and Kegurators in the office. I just don't see how this becomes a unique, attracting thing to get me to go to the office. Now here's something that might make sense. I would say that if clothes are it for you, getting a haircut would get me back in the office, but I only get my haircut once every six weeks or so. So while they're offering free monthly haircut, so I guess you get a trim every four weeks. That keeps you looking fresh. Okay, that's nice. But still, are you really going to go into the office just because you get haircuts once a month? I would say I go in the office once a month when I need a touchup. For those of you listening to the call, Rich is pointing at his bald head and going, yeah, that doesn't work for me so much. Now maybe if the services were broader and your audience was maybe a little more female. And I'm just speaking from my own personal experience here, but women tend to spend more and require more for their hair care than guys do. My wife is more than happy to remind me of that.

[00:17:04.230] - Dan Paulson

But again, really nice. Is it going to get me to go in the office three to five days a week? Probably not. And all these are interesting. And I think that's part of the reason for the whole story is that they're interesting. They're a little bit different than maybe what is traditionally being offered out there. But I have yet to see anything here that goes, wow, that's going to get me come back to the office. We are still struggling with the fact that people... I mean, we're dealing with some of the laws of physics here. A body at rest tends to stay at rest. Well, if you're at home, you don't have to change your clothes, you don't have to go out, you can get work done and get paid for it. Why do you want to leave? It just doesn't seem to register with most people.

[00:17:53.840] - Rich Veltre

I think that I agree with you. They're interesting, but I think the only way any of this works is it's got to be, unfortunately, more than one.

[00:18:06.560] - Rich Veltre

There's not one in the list that's enough for me anyway to realize that, Oh, everybody has to go back. Now, in a combination of things, trying to offer something that's good for multiple people and something else is good for multiple people or going back again to some of the old perks that maybe weren't as widespread, I think there's way more things that you have to do here, I think, in combination to get people to actually be able to go back and see the value of going back to work. If they can get their work done at home, they're all arguing because they can get their work done at home.

[00:18:44.920] - Rich Veltre

So.

[00:18:46.680] - Rich Veltre

The commuting time and the commuting cost is a big deal for people because they're realizing that they can get so much more done by not doing that. I'm just becoming there.

[00:19:01.100] - Dan Paulson

People are motivated by incentive. And the incentive to stay home is much stronger than the incentive to go to work because most companies haven't figured out the right incentive to do. And as you point out, I think they're focusing on the wrong areas to get people to move. And it's going to be different from company to company. I get that. Maybe again, for some of these companies that are listed here, this works. I just don't see it being a across the board. If you do this, it's going to make a difference. Yeah. Well, that pretty much takes care of it. We've gotten through our list here. I think the takeaway is while these are all cute and in some ways unique, they're also the same thing all over again. Rich, if they do want to try something different or they do want to figure out what exactly all this crap is going to cost them, how do they get a hold of you?

[00:19:58.960] - Rich Veltre

Best ways by email are veltre@veltregroup.com.

[00:20:02.220] - Dan Paulson

Yep. And you can get a hold of me at danpaulsonlet'sgo.com. Just feel free to reach out and I can maybe help you figure out what incentives are actually going to make a difference. You can also catch past episodes or future episodes of books in the biz if you go to books, the letter N, B-I-Z. Com. That's where all our past and future podcasts will be hosted. All right, take care.

[00:20:29.250] - Rich Veltre

All right, take care. Bye.

WSJ Article:

https://apple.news/AkqFISI7YR6C1H33X_xqmtw

The 9 Most Over-the-Top Perks Companies Are Using to Bring Workers Back to the Office