Tax Planning: Your Tax Questions Answered.

[00:00:04.020] - Dan Paulson

Hello.

 

[00:00:04.750] - Dan Paulson

And welcome to this special holiday edition of Books and the biz. We are not on Thursday this week because I don't know how many people are going to watch today, Rich, but I'm pretty sure when it comes to Thanksgiving, we're probably going to get beat out by a turkey. I don't think anyone's going to pay attention to us on Thursday at night. So yeah, well, welcome. Thanks for coming, Rich.

 

[00:00:26.400] - Rich Veltre

Absolutely. Anytime. I love books and the business.

 

[00:00:29.390] - Dan Paulson

I'm glad that you showed up, because again, I get bad tax advice and really needed you here to help fill this out. So if you haven't caught what we posted about, we have been talking about tax planning. And I can give a little bit of background of why we're talking about this today, because I get tons of questions about tax planning. Do you see a accountant in my name anywhere at all? No, it's not there. However, I do know enough to be dangerous. I do know some places to look, and I always to my account and experts to then work out the details on that. And that is one thing we also want to share today is Rich, you're going to be going over a number of questions. And while we are sharing these questions, we're sharing them in very broad terms. The legal disclaimer here is you always need to talk to a professional because there might be some details that we aren't discussing here that affect you. You don't want an audit, so we're just giving you the warning on that. If you do have questions, Rich, how can they get a hold of you?

 

[00:01:33.010] - Rich Veltre

Best way is send me an email at rveltre@veltregroup.com.

 

[00:01:36.810] - Dan Paulson

There you go. Also, the other reason why we're doing this is because people ask me tax questions. What does that tell me? It tells me there's a lot of tax accountants that just don't do this. They don't dig into somebody's taxes and find out maybe where there are some tax events that might lessen their tax burden. I have known this through many accountants that I've worked with that they just do the accounting part. They do the taxes and you pay a set fee for that and they just cover the basics. If there's some details in there that aren't covered in their 50,000 page worksheet that they send you to fill out, there's that. Rich, I don't know what's your experience on that side.

 

[00:02:15.800] - Rich Veltre

No, it's very much the same. I think that there are a lot of accountants out there and there's a varying amount of experience. I really don't want to offend the guys that definitely do the proactive side of it. But I would have to say the majority of, especially the small business accountants, they're busy, they're understaffed. And reactive is more likely than proactive. And I think you really have to be proactive if you're looking at our mugs this morning. Then you're thinking proactively, you're thinking about, What can I do now? As opposed to, What can I do when I actually go see my accountant for the one time of the year. Because that's going to be after the year is over and that's not going to help you very much.

 

[00:03:04.930] - Dan Paulson

Exactly. And most people go, Oh, crap, I made too much money. How do I lessen my tax burden on it? That's usually where I get the call because I'm working on the operations side. For example, I have one client that we increased their revenue by 10 % this year, and we got most of that to the bottom line. Well, guess what happens? Your tax liability increases. Now you got to figure out what to do with that. So there's a lot of things that you have to consider. Considering it early, being proactive is better than waiting until the end of December. And I've also had a number of clients that it's December 31st, and they're buying a fleet of trucks. So there's that. But anyway, I wanted to share this with you. Happy Thanksgiving. As we said, this is the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, so if you see this at a later time, you'll wonder why everything's going to be Thanksgiving theme today. But we wanted to definitely take some time to recognize the holiday, and hopefully if you're traveling, you can listen along with us. I put these questions in random order. This is Stump the CFO.

 

[00:04:05.830] - Dan Paulson

Rich, you've had a chance to see all these questions, right? While I'm stumping you, I'm giving you some time to prepare, but you won't see what's coming and when until we hit the slide. That'll keep it a little bit of fun today and keep you guessing a little bit. So here we go. Let's hit our first question. In our first question... Come here. It's always so easy when it works and when it doesn't. There we go. All right. So I forgot to put the name in this one, but this is Michelle P. So we got questions from you guys. Everything came in the email or from clients. So if I missed something online, I apologize for that. You can definitely reach out to Rich and maybe you can help me answer that. But Michelle asked this, I just launched my business. Should I form a corporation, an LLC, an S-corp? And if so, which one? Rich, which one is the best one to form and why?

 

[00:05:07.240] - Rich Veltre

I don't know.

 

[00:05:09.590] - Dan Paulson

Oh, we're off to a good start here.

 

[00:05:11.900] - Rich Veltre

So here we go with the disclaimer. The type of entity that you want to work out of depends on your personal or your business experience. It doesn't necessarily mean that I have a magic hat and I open it up and say, Okay, form one of these entities, and this is the one today. It comes down to what you're doing. So it's very, very important to go back to the disclaimer that you said a minute ago. You need to speak to someone specifically about your needs. I will give you the very general answer. If you start a business and you just start walking around and suddenly you have developed a product and you're going to start selling it because friends and family say, This is fabulous, let's start it, essentially you have a business, you're collecting money as you sell these things. So you're a sole proprietor. That's part of your personal everything. So the reason to form an entity is to draw a legal line. And I'm not a lawyer. But you're drawing a legal line between your personal assets and your business and your business assets. So the reason to form an entity is legal first.

 

[00:06:25.750] - Rich Veltre

So the reason you should be talking to a legal professional or someone who can give you at least enough advice that says this is why these are the rules, that would be your first step. If you're going to pick an entity other than doing things yourself, I believe 100 % we're beyond this whole proprietary conversation. We don't need to put that on the slide. I would tell you almost every time if you're going to run a business, separate your personal assets, put it into an entity. So let's talk about what kinds of entities. Old school, you start a corporation, you have 100 % legal, limited liability. You have a wall, corporate veil between you and your business. But a corporation is clunky. To use a technical word, it's clunky. It is old school, traditional. It is tax wise, it's double taxation. What that means is the corporation is going to pay its own taxes. And then when you try to get money out of the corporation, you're either going to have a salary or dividend, and that's going to be also taxed. So you're taxed twice, once at the corporate level, once at your personal level.

 

[00:07:39.560] - Rich Veltre

So nobody really likes that unless you're headed down the road of an IPO or going down things that we're not talking about today. Corporation is more than likely not your answer. However, when you talk to your professionals, the corporation rate right now is 21 %. There is a small fraction of people that I've actually said, Have you thought about using a corporation in your plan? I would say if you're just starting a business, which is what this question was, if you're starting a business, most likely no one's going to tell you to be a C corporation. No one's going to tell you to do that. They're going to tell you to go to LLC or S-corp because the LLC or the S-corp do not pay their own taxes. I'll repeat that one because that's huge. Llc and S-corp do not pay their own taxes. So double taxation is eliminated. What happens, though, is the income flows through to the owners. On an LLC, if you're a sole owner, all that income goes into you like you were a sole provider. You still have the block, you still have the legal block, but all that money comes into you.

 

[00:08:50.550] - Rich Veltre

Okay, S-Corp, same thing. It all comes into you. S-corp has slightly different rules than the LLC. Again, go and specifically talk to what you want out of the company, what you want the company, how you want it to function. The question of which one specifically for Michelle P, can't really answer it without a very specific set of questions to go over your particular situation. But understand that more than likely as a startup, you're going to be talking LLC or S-Corp. And again, based on what your plan is for the business or where you're trying to head, you're probably going to be advised to do LLC or S-Corp. And I would say, more than likely, I'd give you the same advice. I don't think there's anything else I can answer to this question, except if there's a follow up, if you want to really dive in a little more, I'm happy to do that with you. Again, just send me an email and we'll finalize that.

 

[00:09:53.650] - Dan Paulson

Yeah. I think just really quick here, if you could answer this, Rich, there is a hybrid. There is LLC, this taxed as an sCorp. Correct. Can you quickly explain what the difference to that might be?

 

[00:10:04.750] - Rich Veltre

Sure. An S Corp itself is not like I go into my state and I say, Hey, guys, I want to start an sCorp. Okay. What winds up happening, you start either a cCorp or an LLC first. The sCorp is simply an election with the IRS. It's a form you fill out, form 2553. So whether you're an LLC or a corporation, you file that 2553 form, and the IRS approves you as an s-corp. You still can start off as a C-corp or an LLC, and make that election to become an s-corp. The s-corp is actually easier for someone to take away from you than a C-corp or an LLC, because those are the base filings, those are the base formations. An sCorp is just an election. If I make a mistake and I bring in, say, an international shareholder, sCorp has a rule that says you can't have an international shareholder, but they don't warn you. They just say, Well, you brought on an international shareholder, so your sS election is revoked. The next thing you know, you're back to either being a cCorp or an LLC. Again, way more of a spider web of how to answer this question.

 

[00:11:17.020] - Rich Veltre

But that's the big starting point of where you really want to start diving in and saying, Which one do I want to be? But I'll go back and just reiterate that I think anyone starting out of business nowadays should put something between them and the business.

 

[00:11:36.200] - Dan Paulson

Agreed. All right, let's go on to question two, Brad B. Thank you, Brad. I've started a new business with large capital expenditures on equipment. How much am I able to write off the first year?

 

[00:11:51.420] - Rich Veltre

First year. You've got to love it.

 

[00:11:55.700] - Rich Veltre

So you have all this money going out and you think, wow, I'll be able to save a ton on taxes. And maybe, maybe not.

 

[00:12:05.020] - Rich Veltre

Yeah. Well, if you started a new business with large capital expenditures, you should be able to write off up to, and I have to always look up the number, $1,160,000 of upfront cost on that equipment can be written off in 2023 for equipment, place and service in 2023. There are a couple of other or a couple other ways to look at this. There are actually two things going on at the same time. The old school was what they called Section 179 because that was the code section that actually described what we're doing here, which was first time small business, right off of equipment in the first year. Section 179 has some limits to it. You can only put in, I think, $2.8 million of equipment in any given year in order to get that write off of $1.1 million. That's one thing. The second thing is you can't create a loss with Section 179. You have to have business profit to cover it, so you can't go below zero. Section 179 can actually have a limitation that says you can only take up to this amount and it stops. In the past years, the government has been trying to give small businesses an advantage, trying to give them a little bit more of a runway.

 

[00:13:38.550] - Rich Veltre

They came up with what they call bonus depreciation. Bonus appreciate for a while there, especially during the pandemic, was 100% of all of your equipment that you put in in a given year could be written off on what they call bonus depreciation. You never even talked about Section 179 anymore. The big difference is that bonus depreciation can create a loss. So for people who are in an S corp and are taking a salary, what you forget is, Oh, I got my profit down to zero, but you took salary. So it's no longer zero. You still got it down to the salary that you took. But if you're trying to actually get any additional tax planning and get that loss to offset some of your salary and get some of your withholdings back, you couldn't do it with Section 179, you had to do it with bonus depreciation.

 

[00:14:28.880] - Dan Paulson

Got it.

 

[00:14:29.240] - Rich Veltre

The quick answer to the question is $1.1 million or in that range. And the longer answer is there's an opportunity to use both bonus depreciation and Section 179. Now, anybody who's listening to me is saying, Wait a second. If I take 100% bonus depreciation, there's nothing left for Section 179. What's this guy talking about? Well, key point for 2023, it's no longer 100%. It's 80% in 2023, and it's dropping 20% every year going forward. 2023, you missed the boat on the bonus depreciation. And if you're in a lost position, Section 179 can't do anything for you for the remaining 20%. So there's planning to be done. On top of that, if you're looking at trying to put together something for 2024, I just told you it's going to be 60% on the bonus depreciation. But now you should figure out, does Section 179 still come into play for me so that I can get both?

 

[00:15:37.020] - Dan Paulson

Good question. All right, let's go to the next one. This one's from Bob D. Thank you, Bob. What is an S corporation election and can I still make one for 2023? So this might be similar to one of the other questions that was already asked, is it?

 

[00:15:56.050] - Rich Veltre

That's correct. So again, I said the other question was, S corp, C corp, LLC, and I went rogue on my answer.

 

[00:16:09.610] - Rich Veltre

So.

 

[00:16:11.670] - Rich Veltre

An S corp is just an election with the IRS that takes an LLC or a corp and says, I want to be taxed as an sCorp. Again, S-corp has the flow through. It basically does not pay its own taxes, it gives it to you. Now, the S-corp election has a deadline, which is two and a half months after the beginning of a tax year. By March 15th, you have to file that 2553, and you want to have proof that you did it usually, and get your S-election in so you can say, For all of 2023, I am an escort. Most people do this and have this in their head already when they form the company, so they file the 2553 right away. There are particular rules on how that deadline is structured, because what happens if I started my business on September 12th? What's the two and a half month rule go when I'm on September 12th? But you follow those rules, and typically it is two and a half months after the formation or where capital came in. There's a specific deadline. If you miss it and the only reason you missed it was you just forgot or I believe you have to have a reasonable reason for why it happened, but we forgot.

 

[00:17:34.050] - Rich Veltre

We've been acting all along like we're S-Corp, our accounting shows that we're all by S-Corp, but we forgot to actually send the form in or the form got lost and was never filed. There's no confirmation it got done. Yes, you can still go back. I believe up to three years after formation, you can still go back and say, I have a problem because my S-Corp election was not filed. Therefore, even though I've been treating myself as an S-corp, everybody is telling me that it was never properly filed, we need to fix it. There is a procedure to go back and actually correct that mistake. It's relatively straightforward. It's not overly cumbersome. You don't have to have an audit in order to get it done. So yes, BobD, you can definitely go back and have an S election repaired. I'll call it repaired.

 

[00:18:26.550] - Dan Paulson

Perfect. All right, well, we have another Bob, BobS. Which is better? Cash versus cruel accounting. Which is better for manufacturing or construction? So it's like a double question here. So maybe you could explain just a little bit quickly on what's the difference between cash versus accrual and which one you would probably use for manufacturing or construction if you're in that.

 

[00:18:51.670] - Rich Veltre

Okay. Double whammy. I need to get my breath in for this one. Okay, so let's start with the first part and make that the easy explanation. When you're a small business, you are allowed to run on either the cash or accrual method of accounting. Cash is exactly what it sounds like. Cash in, cash out, what's in the bottom line? That's your taxable income. It's just that simple. If the cash came in, it's taxable. If the cash went out, it's a tax deduction. Bottom line times your tax rate. That's what you're going to pay. Relatively straightforward. Got it. Hard part is when somebody sends you a deposit on December 15th and it's a half a million dollars and you haven't even started the job yet, the IRS is going to say that's taxable. So cash basis, you want to watch what your cash is because December becomes very critical for you on whether or not you get hit with a surprise. If you have a very even keeled business, cash is just fine. There's no reason to worry about it. That's a great way to start. Accrual is what is prescribed in generally accepted accounting principles.

 

[00:20:12.210] - Rich Veltre

Accrual is where you record your income as you bill. The technical definition of it is you record your income as you earn it. If I send Dan a bill for a million dollars, I earned a million dollars because I did the work because I wouldn't send the bill unless I did the work. That's the income side. On the deduction side, same thing. If I get a bill in my hand and I haven't paid it yet, it's still a deduction because I have incurred it. So if it's on my credit card or if I have an account payable to someone, that's deductible. So that's really the difference between cash and accrual. Accrual says what did I bill and what do I owe? What's my net at that point? Cash says, what did I bring in? What did I send out? And that's my cash at that point.

 

[00:21:08.600] - Dan Paulson

That's my end of the year. Again, it sounds like a lot of this stuff is right at the end of the year is where you would really notice the difference. So if you get... For example, there's a lot of end-of-year accounting maybe where you're invoicing a lot of people or you're collecting money maybe for work to start in January, but you haven't done that yet, that becomes taxable income. Where I would see it on the... So you brought up credit cards. Well, under cash accounting, if you haven't paid that credit card balance off, that transfers into when you would pay it off. So if you have a bunch of credit card expenses, you say, Well, I'm going to pay this mid-January, you technically have to push that expenditure into next year, correct?

 

[00:21:48.430] - Rich Veltre

I think this was one of those places that I shouldn't have mentioned credit card because it just goes down that rabbit hole. I think the cash basis, it actually looks at your bank account and your credit card. Got it. Okay. I think there's a caveat in the cash basis where we'd have to get really difficult and detailed, but I think that there is somewhere where I remember seeing that cash includes credit cards when you're talking about the cash basis of accounting.

 

[00:22:15.270] - Dan Paulson

Got it. Okay.

 

[00:22:16.510] - Rich Veltre

I don't think that's a key difference, but I still look at it as if you incur it, it's part of accrual.

 

[00:22:25.600] - Dan Paulson

Got it. Perfect. Thank you for that answer. All right, we got John M. John, if I buy equipment before year end, can I write it all off in 2023? Again, this is a sticky question too, isn't it?

 

[00:22:42.410] - Rich Veltre

It goes right back to your Section 179. So it's similar to the two questions ago where it was, what's the limit? So we go back to that million one on the equipment. We go back to the upper limit being how much have you bought. I think if you get closer to that $3 million of equipment that you bought, you start to phase out what you can take in Section 179. Again, you can't create a loss. But as far as if you buy equipment on December 31st and it's actually operational because the definition is placed in service, if it's ready to go on December 31st, yes, you have an opportunity to take most of that, depending on the size and the numbers. You have the opportunity to take that in 2023.

 

[00:23:29.390] - Dan Paulson

Perfect.

 

[00:23:29.900] - Rich Veltre

Hey, Dan, I think we skipped the second half of that other question, the one before. Did we?

 

[00:23:34.790] - Dan Paulson

Okay, let me go back. Which is better for manufacturing or construction?

 

[00:23:40.610] - Rich Veltre

Yeah, I didn't want to leave Bobess hanging out there. I just thought about that. I'm like, Hey, there was more. Again, this is a hard part of the question, so maybe we could have skipped it. But I didn't want to leave Bobess out and make him mad at me. Manufacturing, construction, again, manufacturing, I think from my standpoint, if you're in a full blown manufacturing, I happen to like accrual. I know a lot of small business that look at me and go, What are you talking about? Why would I want to pay tax on bills that went out that I did not receive? But the corresponding expense side is where I tend to look and say, At the end of the year, on December 31st, if your account's receivable at the beginning of 2023 and at the end of 2023 is the same, it's the same as cash basis. Because what wound up happening was you paid the same amount that you collected. Because accounts receivable changes. It goes up by the amount you bill, it goes down by the amount you collected. If accounts receivable is a million dollars at the beginning of the year and then a million dollars at the end of the year, cash and accrual are the same.

 

[00:24:54.150] - Rich Veltre

What about the expense side? Do I have the opportunity to bring a bill that I can deduct in 2023? Maybe I pay it in 2024. Maybe I have terms that allow me to pay in 2024. I have more flexibility within accrual than I do with cash. Cash is cash. They're going to come in. They're just going to look at your bank account, they don't want to know anything else. Accrual gives me some flexibility to say that's why I did that or I gave somebody a bonus. Accrued bonuses get a little bit sticky. But if I pay people bonuses by December 31st because I'd rather pay my people than pay the IRS, then there's nothing wrong with that. And I can use the accrual method to get a little bit more massage of what I want to actually show. And I think that accrual basically shows you better what your business is actually doing as opposed to cash, which is going to have wild fluctuations month to month. Big project comes in, it changes everything and now you're not looking at any pattern. So manufacturing, I would probably lean towards I'd love to see you as a cruel because I really want to see that pattern.

 

[00:26:07.260] - Rich Veltre

I want to know that everything is running the way it's supposed to. I don't want to see these wild offsets. Construction has some of the same wild offsets, but it's got its own set of rules. And if you get over a certain number, which I can't remember if it's 5 million or 10 million, you actually have to use project accounting. You have to use percentage completion. And that's the IRS, that's GAAP, that's across the board. They're looking for you to use percentage of completion. I had relatively small construction company that was trying to go for bonding, and they had to show all their financials with percentage of completion. So it's really not easy. So construction has its own set of rules. If you ever want to talk about it, Bob, just give me a ring and we'll talk about what differences there are for construction.

 

[00:26:56.270] - Dan Paulson

That's good. John here, we'll go to Jeff M. Why is first in, first out important with materials inventory? I can give you some background on this. I was meeting with a client and he had brought up this first in, first out thing. Now that's something I typically most of my clients don't have to deal with this. But he was wondering, Why do I essentially work with what we've bought first and we expend or use first versus whenever we get it, we use it? How can you explain that?

 

[00:27:29.670] - Rich Veltre

I think usually inventory is exactly what we said, that when it comes in, it's available in the warehouse, you send somebody out to pick it, it comes into your manufacturing process. I said this is manufacturing, Dan?

 

[00:27:46.160] - Dan Paulson

Yes. Okay.

 

[00:27:47.750] - Rich Veltre

You go into your process, you pull out the piece that you want, and you put it into your process to become finished goods. As far as the real reason for first in, first out, I'm a little hesitant to go down this road only because first in, first out is typically a costing part of your inventory.

 

[00:28:11.170] - Rich Veltre

From.

 

[00:28:11.930] - Rich Veltre

A unit standpoint, you're going to go in and you're going to say, Look, I brought in this unit to go in and actually be part of what I'm producing. You brought it in, you put it right into the project. You really only have a couple of different ways that you're going to do this, either by specific identification, which is that's the specific lot, that's the specific part that I want to go into this process. You're going to pick it and it's going to go right in. If there were five of them, normally you're going to take the one that's slightly older. You're going to be the one that first came in. Why? Because a lot of stuff has a shelf life, whether it's... In my head, I started this example thinking machinery, but it could be liquid, it could be chemical, it could be something else that has a perishable date on it that can only be used beyond a certain date. So you want to take the first one because it's got the shortest shelf life no matter what. Out of the 4, 5, 10,000 that you have on your shelf, you're going to take the one that's not going to go bad.

 

[00:29:14.500] - Rich Veltre

Because if it goes bad, because ifs it's bad, you got to write it off.

 

[00:29:17.130] - Dan Paulson

Right.

 

[00:29:17.510] - Rich Veltre

And then you can't use it in your process. And if you do, you have a whole different set of issues.

 

[00:29:23.430] - Dan Paulson

Right. Well, and I think you pointed out the key indicator there, which is does it have a shelf life? Now in the case of this client, most of this stuff is like stainless steel, aluminum, things like that. There's obviously a much longer shelf life. It's not that I can't corrode or get destroyed in some way, but for the most part, we're talking years instead of maybe weeks or months. I think that's the key indicator here is the whole first in, first out idea is like I look at it in the food industry. You get what you get first, that food is going to spoil if you don't use it right away. So that also needs to be the first out.

 

[00:30:04.050] - Rich Veltre

Totally agreed. I don't think there's anything anymore. There used to be a thing, first in, first out versus last in, first out. That used to be a tax item, and that became somebody's crazy idea that you still did everything, specific identification or first in, first out, and then somebody went in and changed all the costing. So you were using your higher priced... You were assuming you were in inflationary times.

 

[00:30:31.340] - Rich Veltre

You.

 

[00:30:31.690] - Rich Veltre

Were deducting the higher end new stuff as opposed to deducting the price of the old stuff. But the old stuff was still leaving the warehouse.

 

[00:30:39.740] - Rich Veltre

So.

 

[00:30:40.810] - Rich Veltre

I don't think anybody does that anymore. I haven't seen it in forever.

 

[00:30:46.860] - Dan Paulson

Interesting. Cool. Let's go on to Mike. Mike F. Oh, this is an interesting question. I haven't had to deal with this one. I'm a US citizen, but I worked overseas for an entire year. I shouldn't have to file or pay taxes in the US, correct? I'm guessing that's no. That's a no.

 

[00:31:10.410] - Rich Veltre

So the key answer to this question is the United States is a global tax jurisdiction. The way United States looks at both businesses and personal. If you are a US citizen, you owe a US tax return. That's first. As far as your income goes, the US government doesn't care where you made your money. If you made the money in Europe, okay, fine. The US says put it on your tax return. But nobody likes double taxation and nobody likes to pay here and in Europe. Most of the tax treaties actually say pretty much the same thing. You file in the US, but the US will give you credit for any taxes that you pay in the other country. You still have to file a tax churn that says you made all this money, but then you go down to the bottom and it's a dollar for dollar credit on what you paid in other jurisdiction for the taxes on the same money. That way, the US says you're still a US citizen, you're still filing here. We're still seeing what you're doing, but we're not going to tax you if you're being taxed by Europe. Got it.

 

[00:32:33.970] - Dan Paulson

If you live in Germany and you get taxed, and let's say your tax is $10,000, and when you file in the US, your tax is $10,000. Basically, because you've already paid that tax in Germany. If you have US tax would then in that particular instance, be zero.

 

[00:32:49.030] - Rich Veltre

I think this is a key part where you also say, Look, this is very general advice, and there are differences. If Germany is charging you 20% and you would be making 30% here and you have a 10% differential and the US says, Hey, pay me for the changed rate, talk to somebody specifically about that because there could be a treaty difference that says you don't have to pay that 10 %. So you need to make sure that I gave you general rules, but go check the specific rules to the country you're working in because the treaty might say something slightly different. I'm giving you, again, very general rule.

 

[00:33:31.320] - Dan Paulson

Great reminder. So in the end, we will disclaim you always need to talk to your accountant. If you don't have a accountant or looking at switching or need a CFO, talk to Rich. All right, Aaron has a successful business here. My business has grown by 10 %, and we've increased our profit significantly. As an escort, how can I lower my taxable income and get into a lower tax bracket? I should probably throw this disclaimer legally.

 

[00:34:11.760] - Rich Veltre

Well, I mean, these are good questions because they are very much intertwined. You're an sCorp, it's going to flow through to you personally. That puts you in a certain tax bracket. There are ways, depending on what that 10% translates to in dollars, there are ways to look forward and think that if that continues, do you want to change entity structure? Do you want to do all those higher level things? We could talk about that at some point if it gets to that consistency point. If it was just, Oh, we did 10 % because we did this giant project. Are there bonuses not yet paid? Are there other expenses related to that project that may have been in 2024? Can you pull them back into 2023? Are you a cash basis? Are you accrual basis? You want to think about those things first, and then hopefully that would be enough to take you down into a lower tax bracket. But here's the thing I think I want to throw in here. I don't know what business this was, but you can't buy yourself out of a tax liability. Because some people think, Well, I'm going to go and spend this money and it'll save me on taxes, but you spent the money.

 

[00:35:28.750] - Rich Veltre

Right. That's the thing I want to remind people here, because I say to my clients all the time. They're like, Oh, I'm going to go out and we're going to get the tax deduction for this. $50,000 I'm going to throw out there, but you lost $50,000.

 

[00:35:42.580] - Dan Paulson

Right.

 

[00:35:43.210] - Rich Veltre

Don't forget that the tax deduction is the percentage, your tax rate against what you spent. You're spending $50,000 to get what? A third of that as a tax deduction. Profit has to come first, tax has come second. You definitely want to make sure that if you can find something that you can do to minimize your tax burden, you don't want it to be something that you foolishly spend a ton of money on. What you want to do is the reason that depreciation conversation has been so prevalent is because you didn't have to spend that money.

 

[00:36:24.040] - Rich Veltre

What.

 

[00:36:25.210] - Rich Veltre

Happens if you buy a million dollars of equipment on December 31st and you financed it and you're going to pay it over five years? Now you got a million dollar tax deduction. It didn't cost you anything. That's why the depreciation deduction is so interesting to so many people because so many people are talking about it. Because if there's a way that you can write it off without it having to come out of your pocket, that's a win. Now, eventually you have to pay off the equipment, but you're doing it over your terms. You're doing it over five years. You would have done that anyway. The difference is you're getting an upfront tax deduction that allows you to use that money to hopefully build more of those requirements to buy more equipment. If you can buy a million dollars of equipment every year because it's being supported by all the profit you're getting out of it, I'll write it off for you every year.

 

[00:37:18.400] - Dan Paulson

Yeah, that's the good news. It's only when that stops.

 

[00:37:22.680] - Rich Veltre

Yeah, when it stops, you need to be way out ahead of that. I don't want to talk to the person who's reactive and suddenly realizes it ends because I'm going to look like the bad guy when I turn around and say, You don't have that write off this year, and all of a sudden it hurts. The other thing is with bonus depreciation going away, being phased out over five years, it's time to really think about how does this really impact what we're doing in almost a five-year plan. You almost want to have people at that size that are looking to write off that much in a five-year tax plan.

 

[00:37:59.020] - Dan Paulson

Exactly. I can expand on this question a little bit because this is one from one of my clients. Because her tax accountant, getting to the end of the year, she's like, Okay, you're going to have all this profit. She's like, Well, okay, what do I do with it? She pointed out something that you said, which is, Well, can you give your employees bonuses? She's generous anyway, and that's good. Don't get me wrong on that. But here's what I pointed out to her. What happens if or when you don't have these large profit swings anymore, and you can't give your employees these big bonuses that now they've come to expect as part of their salary, somebody's going to be upset with you. Actually, a lot of somebodies are going to be upset with you. You really have to consider when you're doing things like, Well, we made all this money, let's share it with the employees, by all means, first of all, you should share with the people who helped you get to where you're at. I'm not saying don't do that. All I'm saying is just remember what you consistently pay people, that becomes in their mind, part of their salary.

 

[00:39:06.800] - Dan Paulson

And when that elected piece either shrinks or goes away, people get offended by that because they start counting on that extra money coming in. So this is where you really have to be careful where when you get these big profit swings that if you give it to the employees, they're going to start looking at that going, Oh, boy, I'm going to get another $10,000 bonus at the end of the year. Then all of a sudden maybe profits aren't as good, and now they get two. Well, I guarantee if they were expecting 10, they were already budgeting 10 and possibly spending 10. So just keep that in mind because that's part of where this question came from. And Rich, I think you provided a good explanation of why you probably don't want to do all that.

 

[00:39:49.800] - Rich Veltre

Yeah, and I agree. I mean, look, if it's a one-time thing and everybody's really explaining this one-time thing, I can't worry about them in two years saying, Well, what happened to that one-time thing? Well, it was a one time thing. Yeah, this is.

 

[00:40:03.690] - Rich Veltre

Just too short.

 

[00:40:04.670] - Rich Veltre

But they will. No, I know they will.

 

[00:40:05.890] - Rich Veltre

The other thing is.

 

[00:40:07.240] - Rich Veltre

But again, it's also, like you said, it's a proactive thing. You have to look at it from a, if we can continue to do this and we continue to build this and the profit is going to be sustainable, can we do something with bonuses? Here's another alternative. And that's why this whole conversation really comes down to it's an individual conversation, even though we're talking general rule. I've seen it wherein some people that are really proactive and they run a business and they have profits and they have young kids, they find a way to give their kids some of the money, get them to come in on a Sunday or Saturday and sweep the room. It stays within the family, but you could put money into a salary. I always said, if you put money into your kid's salary and they're making a salary, they can contribute that to a retirement plan. So if you got a really young kid and you put them into retirement plan with a couple of grand just to save some taxes, that kid is going to be a millionaire, depending on how old they are. But they're starting something that's a heck of a lot younger than I would have started anything.

 

[00:41:15.910] - Rich Veltre

So it becomes one of those things where it's time to be creative. To be honest, the individual tax rules have gotten very simple. They're very narrow. Unless you're dealing with very obscure sections of the code that allow certain people certain things. Other than that, the rest of us are in a very narrow silo for what we can actually do from our taxes. Businesses are one of the only places you can really do anything creative. So be creative. Think of how you're going to get to next year or two years and create something that actually works for you, saves some taxes and builds wealth over the long haul.

 

[00:41:59.060] - Dan Paulson

Yeah. I think the key there is this is why it's so important to be proactive in your business with your employees, with your family to minimize the tax burden and also, as you pointed out, be able to set aside some assets that will appreciate and value and put your family in a good position. Let's go on to the next one, Peter S, If I buy a car before year end, can I write that off in 2023? I am hearing correctly that there is a difference around SUVs that weigh more than 6,000 pounds. This again, I know, ties into Section 179. How is this maybe different from some of the other questions I've already been asked around this?

 

[00:42:43.870] - Rich Veltre

Okay. This one I definitely want to have my cheat sheet in front of me because cars are unique. Yes, you still have an opportunity to write off exactly in the same way we already talked about Section 179 and bonus depreciation. For the most part, most people are looking at it from a bonus depreciation standpoint to start. If the automobile is a specific, what they call luxury automobile, which is a car over $61,000 in value on purchase price-.

 

[00:43:25.680] - Dan Paulson

They're pretty much all over $61,000 anymore.

 

[00:43:29.540] - Rich Veltre

Yeah, pretty much. In the last year, especially, yes, you're over 61. I don't think you can get a bicycle for under 61. Anyway, sorry, that was a joke. But there are limits, okay? Because it's a passenger auto and everybody looks at it as this is not entirely... You can't say it's entirely business related. You're always going to have something that's... They put limits on it because they can't go after everyone for every car in the United States. They've put limits on what you can actually deduct on an automobile. I believe it's code section 28F. Not that I like to quote code sections, but I believe it's 28F that basically says if you buy an automobile, you have upper end limits. Those limits for 2023 start at $12,200. If you take bonus depreciation, then it's $20,200 that you can get in the first year. You cannot get to 100% of the write-off on an automobile in 2023. However, here comes the second part of your question, subjection. Suvs, cars, trucks that are over 6,000 pounds are exempt from 28F. The key reason why so many people are so interested in the SUVs are that $20,200 upper limit on what you can write off is gone if you buy an SUV that's over 6,000 pounds.

 

[00:45:07.080] - Rich Veltre

Now, be careful because the car that you think is 6,000 pounds may not be 6,000 pounds. It is GVWR, which is published in your car. If you buy a car, look at the little sticker that's on the.

 

[00:45:23.070] - Dan Paulson

Inside of the door. Just so we're clear, GVWR is gross vehicle.

 

[00:45:27.200] - Dan Paulson

Weight rating. Thank you.

 

[00:45:29.290] - Rich Veltre

You're.

 

[00:45:29.580] - Rich Veltre

Welcome. I am the worst. I am the worst when it comes to using acronyms. Gvwr usually means that they've rated the car for how much the car actually weighs, plus the passengers and the towing or capacity for storage in the back. An SUV that has that, the GVW is one thing and GVWR is another. You want to make sure you're looking at GVWR. If it's over 6,000 pounds, you're good. But you want to look. One of the guys that I was talking to actually looked at, I think, a Volkswagen Atlas, and it came out at 5,970. And he was ready to buy it, but.

 

[00:46:21.030] - Dan Paulson

He said, Well, but no cigar.

 

[00:46:22.540] - Rich Veltre

Talk about a big difference, right?

 

[00:46:24.500] - Rich Veltre

Yeah.

 

[00:46:25.830] - Rich Veltre

So you're looking, and I was very specific with him. I said, look, you're looking at 20,2005. $200, because you're under that $6,000 number. You're not going to be able to defend the fact that you took it at 6,000 and it turns out, oops, it's not $6,000. It's a very specific rule. It's been there for years now that the SUV is over 6,000 pounds is where you decide whether or not you're going to get 20,200 or a full write-off.

 

[00:46:54.170] - Dan Paulson

Now if you see your contractor is running around in nice one-ton dulies that are completely decked out, you now know why. Because that is really what they're doing. They're loading those trucks up to get the maximum value out of them. While it might be for business purposes, let's face it, it's a lot comfortable to drive in a truck with nice leather bucket seats, heating pooled bench cloth seats. Typically, you see the owner running around in a really nice vehicle and the workers are running around in the work trucks.

 

[00:47:24.620] - Rich Veltre

Yeah. I'll throw in one more caveat just to be careful. This doesn't mean you can do it every year. Agreed. If you take your truck and you buy it on December 31st and it's all great, you take your tax deduction and then next year you want to trade it in to get another one, your basis on the first one is zero. It's not I had a $60,000 truck and now I'm going to go buy another $60,000 truck. Well, the first one is gone. It's zero.

 

[00:47:53.630] - Rich Veltre

You're.

 

[00:47:54.230] - Rich Veltre

Going to pick up gain on your trade in. So be careful.

 

[00:48:02.000] - Dan Paulson

The only difference there would be if you have a fleet or you're growing a fleet, because then there's not the trade in differential there to deal with. But you are correct. You can't trade in that truck every year and expect to get the savings off of it. Cool. Let's go on to the next one, Russ M. Okay, this is one that both you and I were asked. We have an S corporation and we take owner's draws. We are As we plan on selling the business in the next couple of years, is it better to take a larger salary instead of the draw?

 

[00:48:39.030] - Rich Veltre

Yeah, this is definitely something that's not only been spoken to us by Russ M, it's also been a very heavy topic of conversation for a long time. The background behind the conversation is that an S corp requires you, as an owner, to take a reasonable compensation. Literally, that is the rule, reasonable compensation. There's no definition of what reasonable compensation is. Zero, none. It is one of those areas that if they decide that you are not taking reasonable compensation, how are you going to defend it? It's very difficult. You want to be somewhat careful, but I'll explain what the difference is. S-corp, the income we talked about in one of the other questions was that the income flows through to you. You can take that salary out and then the amount that flows through you is a little less. What a lot of people do is they say, Well, reasonable compensation is $10,000. They take a really small salary. That way they can say, I took compensation, and then they take their million dollars as drugs. How is that equitable? I'm looking at it from if I was the IRS, how would I look at it?

 

[00:49:52.530] - Rich Veltre

I would say, Wait a minute. This guy is doing financial services. It's a half a million dollar position he's sitting in and he's taking a $10,000 salary. That's where you get into trouble because that's just blatant you're taking less salary. The IRS's particular issue is that because the sCorp is not subject to self-employment tax, they're not getting Social Security and Medicare. They're not collecting into the pool that they need to take care of the people that they promised to take care of. Your $10,000 salary versus your draws, which are not self-employment tax. The $10,000 is not reasonable to them. They want you to have a higher number. From a tax standpoint, people are trying to lower their self-employment tax, which is Social Security, Medicare. They take a lower salary. Take a reasonable salary. Make it make sense, and then you never have an issue. If everybody in your industry is making $100,000, take the $100,000. If you still make a half a million dollars above that, great. Take it all as draws. You're wearing two hats. You're wearing the operator and you're wearing the investor. Investor could take the draws. The operator should be taking the salary.

 

[00:51:13.320] - Dan Paulson

Now, that's I think a key point to this question here. When we were asked this question, in this case, it was less concerning about taxes. It was more concerning about value of the company. I know that's not directly a tax question, though it does impact that sum. If I'm looking at selling my company and I've been taking a salary plus a draw, does that affect the value of the business because of that? We're taking a chunk of that as a draw.

 

[00:51:44.520] - Rich Veltre

Don't forget that the draw is a withdrawal from retained earnings. It's from the balance sheet. A draw is not a taxable event. It's not a tax deduction. It's basically money is coming out of the company and going to you. You're paying tax on the flow through income, which is where that retained earnings came from. The draw is irrelevant.

 

[00:52:08.720] - Rich Veltre

The.

 

[00:52:09.950] - Rich Veltre

Salary part, anybody who's going to buy the business is going to readjust the salary that you're taking, whether it's too low or too high. They're going to say, If I put somebody in there who's got to do that job, what is it going to cost me? They're going to adjust that salary anyway. The decision on what to pay yourself out is not necessarily a sale question. It is more of a tax question. But it's very good. It's a very good question because, yes, when you get to the selling point, you have to understand that the bottom line of what you're making in that company is affected by what you were paid. The bottom line is what they're using to value the company. At the bottom line, you took $100,000 salary. There was $100,000 profit at the bottom line. They're saying, I'm going to pay you half a million dollars just to throw around number out five times your earnings. But that would give them a $500,000 number. But then they look at what you got paid. Did you get paid enough? If you weren't taking a big enough salary, they take that 500,000, they bring it down a bit and say, I got to pay somebody else more because you were taking a beneficial salary.

 

[00:53:19.810] - Rich Veltre

So your business is not worth a half million. It's worth 450, whatever number, right? That's where the key question becomes almost two-parted. The first part is, yes, you want to optimize your taxes as best you can. You don't want to overpay. You don't want to overpay into Social Security and Medicare. It just doesn't make sense to do that. I agree. You try to find a salary that's reasonable enough and then you take the rest as draws. You take advantage of the way that the code is actually written and supposed to be handled. But at the same time, again, Russ's question is great because you really do want to understand that fact for what your valuation is going to be when you sell it.

 

[00:54:03.460] - Dan Paulson

Cool. Very good. All right, next one, James F, going to be doing profit sharing. So I think this is something new that he's doing in his company, rather pay the employees than the taxes. So this relates to a couple of questions ago. Placing my money in 401(k)s. Question, is that a good strategy? And what do I do with the folks that don't have a 401(k)?

 

[00:54:33.340] - Rich Veltre

Okay. I'm hesitating because of terminology, and I hesitated when I first read the question because I did see this one earlier, and I said, Okay, how do I answer this question? I bring up terminology because 401(k)s is a very specific defined contribution plan. What that says is if the employee makes a hundred dollars, he can put up to a certain amount of money and he can defer his own money into that 401(k), and then you have a decision whether or not you match it or whether you provide additional profit sharing compensation on it. But it's a very specific plan for the company. Every employee either ups in or ups out. I can't do anything for one that I don't do for another. So the 401(k) is the part that throws me off for the question because it's a company level question as opposed to the individuals.

 

[00:55:40.980] - Rich Veltre

Right.

 

[00:55:41.640] - Rich Veltre

Okay. So I can't say, Okay, everybody who's going to be in the 401(k) do it over here. And if you're not in the 401(k), we're going to do this over here. Yeah. Okay. So I believe that's not even tax law. I think that's ERISA. I think that's the employment, retirement, income security, whatever. I have an employment lawyer on speed dial. So when it comes down to that, it's like, Eric, let's go. We need to go. But the 401(k), again, being that it is at a company level, I hesitate to answer that question very, very specifically. However, let's go down the road just a little bit further to try to help James and give him some guidance on where he can go. If you haven't set up the 401(k) yet, talk to an investment.

 

[00:56:35.520] - Dan Paulson

They do have one set up. They do. I think the big issue that he's seeing is, Okay, we've been really profitable this year. I want to put more in my retirement. I also want to reward the employees for how well we've done and put it in their retirement. But not all their employees opted into the 401(k). So then the question is, Well, what do I do for the employees that didn't opt in? Based on what I'm hearing you say as well, if you opted out of the 401(k), it's like you lose out on this benefit. You can't do an either or, can you?

 

[00:57:07.700] - Rich Veltre

Well, I really appreciate the fact that there was a little bit of extra context there. I'm going to tell James F, the first person you should call is your investment guy. Whoever is handling the administration of your plan, call that person. And the reason I say that is I have seen a lot of creativity around what you can do with an existing 401(k), depending on... A lot of times someone will put you in a 401(k), that's just what they call a prototype plan. What that means is the investment provider or the investment person who's handling the whole thing for you has already gotten it approved by the IRS. The confines of the 401(k) have already been approved. That does not mean it can't be amended. It does not mean that you can't roll over into another 401(k) that's a little bit more robust trust, treat something that you want to share with the employees that even say they opt out. I have seen it where some employer says, I really want people to do it. This person opted out of 401(k), they don't make as much money, but I want them to benefit. You can still put money into an account for that person, even though they're not going to put their own money in.

 

[00:58:22.670] - Dan Paulson

Got it.

 

[00:58:23.070] - Rich Veltre

They can actually put a profit sharing layer on top sometimes that would allow you to cover everybody, even if they don't join. The key here on everything related to employment retirement is that you want to make sure it's fair and equitable. You can't say, Well, that person's out, and I'm going to give these other people 3% extra bonus because I want to get some more money out and those guys are all... They signed off. They're okay. That's not how it works. But you can put a layer over it that says, I know you don't want to put your own money into the 401(k) or participate. I'm putting money in for you anyway. No one's going to balk at getting extra money in there.

 

[00:59:03.080] - Dan Paulson

Other than they can't use it right now.

 

[00:59:04.910] - Rich Veltre

Yeah, other than they can't use it right now. But yes, you can definitely do something like that. As far as the other part of the question, if there are also ways to structure a 401(k) that allows you to put contributions in excess for people who are older. A lot of times you think the founder is usually the guy that's been with the company forever, right? Depending, just throwing out some scenarios here. But someone who's been there a long time is technically older than the 20-year-old they hired out of college. There are ways to structure the 401(k) contribution to push more money towards the people who are closer to retirement and don't have as much runway until they're going to get to that point where they actually execute on getting out. There are ways to actually make it stepped. But again, it has to be stepped so that later on, the younger people as they get older, they also still grow and can put more in as they get older.

 

[01:00:08.490] - Dan Paulson

Very good. All right. Wendy S, so this is the last question we have, how are economists able to forecast inventory cycles? I put this one last because I figured this one would really something. And then from there, how do they see them happening? So who are these people with the magic crystal balls and how do they know what inventory cycles are going up or going down?

 

[01:00:37.840] - Rich Veltre

Economics.

 

[01:00:41.720] - Dan Paulson

So this is less of a tax question, more of an economics question.

 

[01:00:45.750] - Rich Veltre

Yeah. What I've seen is I think we're definitely talking about bigger companies versus smaller companies. I hate to say the smaller companies a lot more... There's a lot more gut reaction on smaller companies than are bigger companies that are trying to really control what's going on in multiple products, multiple inventory levels, multiple materials levels. I think, though, basically the bigger companies are listening to people who are saying, This is what's going on globally. And someone out there, whether it's actuarial or these things are published and tracked, unfortunately for me, I always look at it as they're still using old data. They're still using stuff that's already happened to predict what is coming. And maybe they're probably throwing in some current variables to say, Well, in the past, when we've hit this level, it's been a percentage, whatever percentage it is of these things follow a pattern. My answer really comes down to it's pattern. It's pattern basis. It's what's happened in the past, what levels can we expect. There's always an inherent danger in that because it's like predicting the weather. I can tell you tomorrow it's going to rain, and when it doesn't, if I was a weather guy, I wouldn't get in trouble.

 

[01:02:12.600] - Rich Veltre

But being that I'm not a weather guy, I get in big trouble. Only the weather guys get away with not predicting the actual weather. I think I'm getting to a silly answer here, but I think the core really comes down to the fact that they're getting published numbers based on the patterns.

 

[01:02:31.060] - Dan Paulson

And those published numbers come from, I think, as you pointed out, publicly traded companies, large corporations that are required to share their information openly, where mom and pop businesses, it's a gut check or maybe there's a polling or a survey company that's calling these smaller businesses and getting a read of the room. But it really does come down to, it's what you see from General Motors or IBM or a large steel manufacturer is going to give you more information than mom and pop shop down the road. I also like what else you pointed out, which is a lot of this stuff is probably six months to a year out of date. This is why we see the Fed making adjustments to interest rates is like, Well, we already seem to be past that point. Why do you keep raising interest rates? Again, it's because they're looking backwards and trying to make an educated guess on what to do going forward, which usually means they swing too far one way or the other, and it always happens well after when they should have made that decision.

 

[01:03:39.570] - Rich Veltre

Agreed. I have an example. I had a company that had a warehouse full of inventory and smaller company, $3 million revenue, had a warehouse full of chemical inventory. 2007 came along and they didn't realize that everybody was pulling back their orders because they had already predicted 2008. They already predicted the banking crisis and therefore everybody figured they're going to slow down on production. My company was still bringing in inventory until we saw it was actually climbing and saying, Why do we have so much inventory? Because our gut said, Just keep going. We actually asked all our clients to give us forecasts and the banking crisis happened after the forecast were in.

 

[01:04:27.070] - Rich Veltre

They were.

 

[01:04:27.670] - Rich Veltre

Missing their forecasts. So for the smaller company, it's a little tougher to really understand what's going on.

 

[01:04:38.290] - Dan Paulson

And there's your first in, first out situation.

 

[01:04:42.140] - Rich Veltre

Absolutely.

 

[01:04:43.480] - Dan Paulson

All.

 

[01:04:44.400] - Dan Paulson

Right.

 

[01:04:45.310] - Dan Paulson

Didn't mean to cut you off there. Well, you answered plenty of questions. I think you answered them in quite good detail. I know the people that were asking these questions are going to appreciate the responses you gave them. So thank you for your time on this, Rich. We need to do this again. Maybe next time around Christmas time, maybe I'll take a turn where you can try and stomp me with a bunch of questions and see how I answer them. Mine are less tax code related, so there's that. But beyond that, again, thank you for joining us for this pre-Thanksgiving holiday festival. Hope the turkeys and everything made you a little hungry for tomorrow, and watch some good football. I don't know if there'll be any good football on. I'm a packer fan, so I'm worried about what Detroit is going to do to my team tomorrow after I've seen them play the last couple of weeks, but we'll see how it goes. Either way, I'm cooking a lot of turkey. It's in the brine right now. It goes in the smoker tomorrow morning, and I will be fat and happy by the end of the day.

 

[01:05:47.230] - Dan Paulson

How about you, Rich? What are you doing?

 

[01:05:48.810] - Rich Veltre

We're going out to eat this time.

 

[01:05:52.340] - Dan Paulson

You are a smart, smart man. Well, anyway, guys, thank you for taking the time if you did join us today. If you did not, you can definitely catch the replay of this. We're just like football. We have the replay going on, so you can see this on YouTube. You probably can watch it again on Facebook and LinkedIn if you can find the link. We will also have the recording on booksinbiz. Com, B-O-O-K-S, letter N-B-I-Z. Com. If you do have any questions or anything here we didn't answer, Rich, how do they get a hold of you again?

 

[01:06:27.530] - Rich Veltre

Send me a quick email at rveltre@veltregroup.com.

 

[01:06:30.100] - Dan Paulson

If you don't want to talk to him, you can always talk to me. My name is Dan Paulson. You can reach me at Danpaulsonletsgo.com. Until we talk to you next week, have a very great and safe Thanksgiving and enjoy your holidays. Take care, Rich.

 

[01:06:44.730] - Rich Veltre

All right. Take care.