Finding Employees is Holding You Back!

[00:00:01.160] - Alice

This is the Books in the Biz, a podcast that looks at both the financial and operational sides of success. Please welcome our hosts, Dan Paulson and Richard Veltre.

[00:00:13.310] - Alice

Dan is the CEO of Envision Development International, and he works with leaders to increase sales and profits through great cultures with solid operations.

[00:00:22.140] - Alice

Rich is CEO of the Veltre Group and a financial strategist working with companies to manage their money more effectively. Now on to the podcast.

[00:00:33.980] - Dan Paulson

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Books and the Biz. I am joined by my good friend Rich Veltre. Rich, how are you doing?

[00:00:37.870] - Rich Veltre

I am doing good. Dan, how are you?

[00:00:39.730] - Dan Paulson

I am doing great. And then we also have Leah Kallas. Leah, how are you?

[00:00:43.990] - Leah Kallas

I'm doing great.

[00:00:45.320] - Dan Paulson

Wonderful. Wonderful. So we wanted to bring you in, because both Rich and I talk quite a bit about labor, employment, why people can't get hired, why people should be hiring, all this fun stuff. And I think it last week or two weeks ago, we were talking about the $20 an hour minimum wage. You probably could join us on that fun conversation. But knowing your background, so Leah, why don't you share a little bit about what industry you're in, what you do, and we can take it from there.

[00:01:17.970] - Leah Kallas

So I am in staffing, and I've partnered up with Great Lakes Skilled Trades. I'm now officially their general manager. What we focus on with my particular company that I work with now, as opposed to my other staffing company I was with before, is really staffing up and partnering up in the skilled trades and construction industry, and how we can help improve them and their mobility, getting their projects done on an as-need basis or even further recruiting efforts. So really improving the labor market is what we focus on.

[00:01:52.350] - Dan Paulson

Great. Well, Rich and I, when we're on, of course, we talk from what's most of our experience, which is the direct higher approach. So I'm working with companies on placing those job as doing the interviews, trying to get the buts in the seats. But I know, and of course, many of our listeners know that there's a whole other side to that, which is the augmented staffing, where you have somebody We also basically do a lot of that work for you in bringing qualified individuals. And that's why we wanted to have you on, is you can give us a different perspective that either one of us have expertise in. But I wanted to show something to everyone here, because this This is why we hop on this so darn much. And Lee, I had sent this to you earlier as well. But this is actually the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, so we're getting it right from the source. And I look at employment and what's changing here? And I saw something online yesterday that said there were fewer jobs available last month than the month before. I couldn't find any information to validate that. So I went to the labor statistics here, and things really haven't changed all that much.

[00:03:01.810] - Dan Paulson

So there's about 8.8 million job openings available right now, and it's been that way for at least the past several years. We won't talk about the 2020 debacle, but for the most part, we've had pretty solid labor growth, and there haven't been a whole lot of changes other than the number of people to fill the positions. I know from the hiring side, Rich, you can also jump in on this, too. When it comes to trying to find qualified people, it is next to impossible for a lot of companies to go direct and get bodies in the door. And I'm just thinking of a manufacturing company that I've been working with lately, try to fill positions, that it really hasn't happened. Either getting qualified candidates, get the wrong button here, getting qualified candidates, or being able to put them in the seats, if you will. I mean, what are you seeing, Leah?

[00:03:59.400] - Leah Kallas

So When it comes to staffing, I think that you mentioned the direct tier, which we do as well. I think that some of people that I've worked with, what they are not seeing as the full picture that not every employee would... Some are not resume-perfect. Some of them are buildable. Some of them, maybe you don't need to keep them long term, but you need them to return as you need them. Sometimes Sometimes you need to open up the imagination when it comes to the employment market, I would say. That's why companies like us are very beneficial. When I think about the amount of investment direct HR recruiting has to do in order to supply an employment market. You're putting in, I think it's like $4,000 of just an investment for an onboarding of an employee, right? So you're thinking about you need to retain and bring in these employees. So what are you seeing is you're seeing that people think that there is a shortage of labor, but there isn't always. What needs to happen is more strategy on how to increase your labor. There's ways to outsource, like you've mentioned, you do direct hires with some of your clients.

[00:05:12.700] - Leah Kallas

There's resources like us. There's just more clever ways to find people. I know that with us, particularly, we have been fairly successful being able to find those people because we just constantly are focusing on just sourcing. So I guess my experience is that sometimes clients that I work with aren't able to find the people because they have so many other things that they have to deal with in a day that it's hard to find those people. Does that clarify that?

[00:05:48.250] - Dan Paulson

Yeah, I think, again, looking at from the owner's perspective, a lot of times, while hiring might be very important, it's not their primary focus. And they aren't doing in the direct outreach. So for example, I'll bring in the result or the company I'm talking about here. They're posting jobs on Indeed. And while that is a good tool, if you will, to promote a job out there, you're not actively reaching out to a lot of potential opportunities. And I've always made the argument that the biggest mistake that most companies make is they fail to constantly market to keep a little black book, if you will. So you talked about positions that, well, I might need you today, but maybe I won't need you tomorrow, but maybe I'll need you a month down the road type of thing. And most owners look at it and say, well, I need somebody for the short term, but I don't want to hire for the short term. If I'm going to hire, I'm going to fill a position and keep that person long term. So I like what you're saying about you have to be more creative about finding people and figuring out how they fit in.

[00:06:56.640] - Dan Paulson

I did want to ask you, when you said not I'll get the wording wrong, but this is how I interpret it, not resume ready, what type of people are we talking about there?

[00:07:08.520] - Leah Kallas

So in my experience with people that are not resume ready, but they tend to be some of the best candidates, is I look for character, integrity, honesty. And also when asking the biggest question is, I get to ask this question more than I would say my clients do, because I'm not direct hiring. I'm It's literally like a shop for jobs. What are you looking for? So I go, What would make you happy to wake up every morning and go to work, and you'd be excited to go to work? And if they say a jobs is a job, I will remind them that it is not. We spend more than 50% of time at our job. If you don't like what you do, you're not going to go, and your quality of life is going to spiral down. So I will redirect them and I'll say, Now, again, let's talk about this. So that integrity, that honesty, then finding out who they are. I think one of my favorite placements was when I was actually at my last company, used to work for a company called Seek. There was this young lady, and she was looking for a new position.

[00:08:11.510] - Leah Kallas

She had experience with data entry. She had experience with managing a senior citizen home in the cafeteria area. And then she also had experience working in the pharmacy. I had a client in a manufacturing facility looking for an account payable, but they wanted to keep that wage in the beginning area at a level that they felt they could afford without gouging them. I said, Well, listen, you've got someone who's got manufacturing experience data entry. They got management experience. They've been managing a whole area in the senior citizen area. Also, They've experience in the pharmacy, and that means they're great with numbers. I promise you there's lots of calculations going on. They brought her on. She was doing amazing, hired on. I mean, over there for several years, to my knowledge, and did great as an account payable manager. Those are where as if you would have put that resume out there, many people that I've worked with with my clients would have overlooked that resume. They would have thought, No, what experience does she have to be an account payable manager? She has none. Well, then she turns out to be this phenomenal employee, and they got to keep their pay scale where they need it without being gouged so they can have a sustainable business.

[00:09:25.050] - Leah Kallas

Those are things that you will experience that are more moldable and green employees. Companies like ours, we don't hire for the job. We hire based on the candidate and who's applying. We get to be more creative when we're doing our interview processing. Those are things we're looking for. Do they have this skill? Do they have this? And then I think the number one is that integrity thing. You really want to hire honest people because otherwise it's really going to be something that's going to be difficult to mold into anything because you're too busy chasing a lie. That That's been at least my professional experience.

[00:10:02.450] - Dan Paulson

So I'll turn over to Rich here in a minute, but I do want to ask you this. You say integrity is the most important thing you want to hire on as people. How does a company really figure that out? I mean, if somebody is doing their own hiring. There are certain questions you can ask, there are certain questions you can't ask. You're in that protected area where if you say the wrong thing, all of a sudden you open yourself up to a liability issue. How can How would you go about figuring that out?

[00:10:32.430] - Leah Kallas

Well, one is definitely a reference of background checks. I mean, that's a pretty easy thing to do, and everybody should be doing that. If you're not, please start doing that. It's so important. It takes two seconds to make a phone call and to see if the person worked there. I mean, that doesn't break any law. You can call a former employer and say, Hey, did they work there from X, Y, to Z? And can you confirm whether or not it was a mutual agreement that they left? That's things you can ask without breaking that. And two, I would say, when you're interviewing your candidates, try to make them feel more comfortable, more relaxed. Think about when you open your door to your house and you're inviting your friends over, you're opening up your door and they're relaxed. You're like, Hey, have a seat. Relax. You will find that a person, when you're not so much by the books, I'm just reading, they're going to open up They're going to tell you what's going on. And then you'll be able to read that, or at least you should be able to read that pretty well. I do feel like in our industry, we get to adapt and learn that skill because we interview so many people in a day.

[00:11:47.100] - Leah Kallas

I mean, it's hundreds.

[00:11:50.630] - Dan Paulson

That's a great point. Rich, I'll turn it over to you.

[00:11:53.980] - Rich Veltre

So I guess a couple of things resonated with me, from having a daughter looking for a job and keeps telling me she jumped on Indeed, and me saying, I'm old school. I don't believe in Indeed. So sorry, Indeed, that's my bad plug for the day. But I guess that is a big thing for you, right? I mean, really, that has to be an enormous portion of you being able to say, look, the human contact factor is so much better than Indeed, which is probably backed up by AI, screeners, things that are basically going through. And they use the T in there, and that's not good enough. And boom, the resume is gone, right? And then the hiring manager, whoever set that whole thing up, is saying, there's nobody out there. So your point about bringing somebody in and having that ability human contact-wise to be able to say, look, this is the right person for your role. Trust me, check it out, it really resonates with me. Do you feel that that's the case? Is that your competitive advantage against people who are just solely looking at something like an Indeed or Monster, whatever else is still out there?

[00:13:08.640] - Rich Veltre

Because I don't look at any of them anymore. I've gone the other way. So I'm a proponent, if you say you're a proponent.

[00:13:15.820] - Leah Kallas

I mean, we use Indeed, but we don't just use Indeed. I would say we use everything. I mean, social media, getting out there and connecting with people, getting involved in a community events. I mean, I recently just placed a candidate because I spoke in front of a Black Hawk Community College, right? There was a program going on with Ford Services. They're getting people getting certified in the trades. And I had a contractor saying, I can't find anybody. I can't find anybody. And I'm like, Well, I got this one. He's multiple. He's willing. He's excited and he's eager. And he's showing initiative because he got involved in this community college, and he's looking for He's looking for a job, and now he's doing good. So I would say companies like mine in particular, we really focus on that quality of we interview, we bring them in, we're doing our background checks, we're screening sourcing and things of that nature, and really knowing that employee before replacing them. It's really hard to do that with Indeed only on a computer screen. And then on top of it, because we're pulling in everything that applies, all of them, because for us, our only job and focus is recruiting.

[00:14:34.140] - Leah Kallas

So we can source and bring in these people, and they might have never even applied for your position because they didn't think you would even look at them. Why would they apply? So when they come to us, they're like, help me. And we certainly can because we can bring them in and we'll get to know their personality. And we'll be like, you know what? My client would get along a lot with you. You would be great because that cultural index, more than even just a skill, is also very important. So I'd say, yeah, more than... Indeed is not going to be able to place people. Indeed is just going to be a source that you could use. And then I would say, how much time do you have while you're running a company to source every single person that's applying or not applying.

[00:15:22.530] - Rich Veltre

Very good point. The follow-up, I guess, separate question. We talked a lot about direct hire. If we were to look at it from another standpoint, would you be more of a proponent of being able to put somebody into, I don't want to say part time role, but maybe a fractional role? I mean, everybody's got a different moniker for it now, right? Everybody's got a different name for it. But what do you see as far as the direction that things are going? Are you trying to tell people, look, there's a lot of stuff out there where we can get you projects or tasks, or is it really still all geared towards the direct hire in the full-time?

[00:16:10.620] - Leah Kallas

I would say in each situation, it would be different, right? You have to really look at your business model. What are you doing? And are there moments where you're really, really busy and you just need something to get you through? Or in the construction industry, especially. I Is there a moment you just need a trim guy to come in and just get the job done, and then you're on to the next, you need to go do beds, and then you're doing your rough in because where does it translate? So maximizing every facet is what I would recommend. There are moments you do need a direct hire. Those are typically going to be the people that are more in a lead role, a more prestigious role that's really going to push your company to the next level. Then you've got some where you're like, Well, let's see if can help us, but they turn out amazing. So you might want to hire them on. That's phenomenal. Sometimes they're phenomenal. They don't want to be hired on, but they're going to help you maximize your growth when you need them. And know that, that it might be better to release and say, Hey, I don't need so and so right now.

[00:17:18.590] - Leah Kallas

But maybe in three months, could they come back? Think about that. You don't have to keep them on your payroll. You're going to save money. You're maximizing your growth in your timeline for your your business. And then you don't have to retrain or re-know this person. You'll be like, In three months, I'd like them back. Boom, three months, they're back. If as long as it's all scheduled right. That's some of the things I would say. Be creative and look at what will maximize actually your business. Because sometimes thinking that you have to complete a contract to hire or have to do a direct hire to be successful, it's limiting your ability to truly reach success because you're not looking at where you need it when you need it. So That's what I always encourage. I'm like, it's not always about hiring them on. Where are you? And they say, We're slow right now. Perfect. That's great. I'll go ask somebody else where they're at and then try to move that employee so that employee does have full-time employment. Although some might want part-time. I might know that. I might go, This employee, they're close to retirement.

[00:18:22.250] - Leah Kallas

They don't want to work full-time. They're amazing at what they do. Maybe you could use them for a little bit. And then when you don't, you don't. Thinking outside of that box is going to ultimately give you your best results of success. Thinking that everything needs to be so linear is going to hold you back from growing your company. Right.

[00:18:45.520] - Rich Veltre

Now, I'm a big proponent of the fractional economy. I think I've spoken to it a lot. So I think your comments really that that resonates with what I've been saying all along, that I think this is a movement. I think a lot of people are starting to realize it. I think some of the older school people out there are really about the control of having that somebody that's 24/7 available and sitting at the computer. And I think we've talked about the fact that the world's moving, the world's changing. So I was just curious about your your connection to that, how you felt about it.

[00:19:25.330] - Leah Kallas

Yeah. And I love that you brought that up because it is changing. And how How I feel like where I'm at and how I'm impacting the end, or hopefully the end of job hopping, is creating stability with the staffing company that they're in. One of the things I will say is, listen, how you can build your resume is staying loyal to a company. Now, if you're working with us and I can help you maximize your experience, you're on this job site for this this time to this time. Now, this one, they might be with different clients, right? So they're maximizing their revenue and growth, but they've got longevity on the resume with Great Lakesskill Traits. They've got a reference check that you can call and say, Hey, were they just let go from that assignment because they were bad? No, they were great. And in fact, they're on another one, and they're doing great, and they're probably going to go back to that one. There's this misconception because somebody sits on a bench for a day or they're not working, that they're awful. There just might be a gap between the workload. How many times I have to listen to clients say, We're slow right now, and I'm trying to find busy work for my employees.

[00:20:39.140] - Leah Kallas

Imagine how many more bids in time you would have to go put into your company if you weren't worried about your guy not being busy enough, and you would actually maximize your growth by actually having your employees on a company that can move them when you need them, take them away when you don't, and continue to do that. I mean, you could go put way more bids, have more time on your project management, as opposed to just worrying about that one person that you don't know what to do with because you don't have work for them right now. So when people say that, Oh, why are they in the bench? They're no good. I'm like, Have you ever had problems giving your employee work? Well, yeah, we have had slow periods. Same. Let's relate. A lot of things are, Have you hired somebody and they didn't turn out like you wanted them? Same. So just because they come from a company like us having a firm like mine, it doesn't mean that they're no good. I mean, that bottom of the barrel misconception really is a disservice when clients think that But then they let us have an opportunity, and then they'll see real clearly like, oh, wait, no, it's not the bottom, and this is great.

[00:21:52.400] - Leah Kallas

Because then I can call when I'm shorthand and be like, Can I get a guy for two weeks? I'm really behind. Yeah, let me see. Who's available? Perfect. They'll be there. And then they help them get caught up in their projects. And that's a phenomenal feeling for me, my client, and the employee, because it's a three-party system that's all working together to get something done.

[00:22:14.800] - Dan Paulson

Yeah, I think you hit on several key points here that I hear with pushback for going to any type of service like this. Usually the first one is, well, it's too expensive. I got to pay this company more money than I can hire somebody directly for dollar per hour. But what you had said is, well, there's going to be times now where you have to try and keep that guy busy, and you're not bringing in the workload that pays that person. And it would make more sense to free up that gap not be paying that person at all. That person is working on another job site, and then when you need them, bring them back. Quality. I heard you say quality. I always tell people it's a 50/50 shot when you hire somebody, if they're going to work out or not, or if they're going to be the right person. Because let's face it, Leah, you're probably just as familiar with this as anybody else. There's enough tools out there to teach you how to interview well, and make it seem like you're somebody that maybe you're not. And then you bring the person and you realize they're not the same person you interviewed.

[00:23:20.460] - Dan Paulson

And that can be really frustrating. There's also that cultural fit. It's very hard sometimes to communicate that effectively. I know a lot of businesses struggle with that. It seems like you do a lot more to get to know not only the business, but the individual, and try to make a marriage that way. So there's a number of things here that I think companies tend to look past, and back to that linear thought process that you brought up earlier, is we're so accustomed to, we do the hiring, we keep the people. Why would we want to let them go? Because then when we need them, we can't get them back. And that's probably the biggest fear that I would see is they find somebody good. And like you said, they're not busy all the time. They now got to free up somebody's schedule here, so they go work somewhere else. They're worried about bringing that person back in. How do you ease those fears?

[00:24:16.370] - Leah Kallas

I think that when it comes to staffing, you really have to make sure who you partner up with that you have a good relationship with. If the relationship isn't there and you're not formulating it with your staffing partner, you're probably not going to get the results that you're looking for. You're going to be very disappointed. If you are roadblocking ability to have lunch, talk on the phone. If you feel like all I need is an email, and that's it, you're really going to do a disservice to yourself and not utilizing their service properly. Honestly, it is about trust and relationship bonding. If you really want a staffing partner that's going to make you succeed and get the things and results you are looking for, you have to trust, rely on them, and create a relationship with them. That is my best advice on that one, because any time that I have ever really, truly been unsuccessful, it is because I wasn't allowed to create the relationship with the client and looking forward to that feedback that I needed, those relationships, in order to make sure that I am able to service them properly. Now, if the relationship is there, right?

[00:25:25.340] - Leah Kallas

It's established, it's established and it's great, why wouldn't you give them back? I mean, think about it, if it was your really good friend, and he borrowed you a sweater, he's your good friend, and he says, I'll give it back. He's going to probably give it back. That's that relationship. You know you've created it. So my advice is, when you're looking for a staffing partner to pair up with, build your company, make sure that the relationship is formed there and that you can trust on them. As for the expensive part, that's another thing, trust. And the great thing, though, about not just you're going to negotiate, you're going to talk about what's affordable, what will make or break your client, and then also the staffing partner still to make some money. But the great thing is when you do utilize services like ours instead of just internal sourcing, is that you only pay when you use. So if it's really expensive and you're getting to a point and you're feeling like you're not making enough money to support that employee, Let the employee go and get the notice as much as you can for that partner, though, that staffing person, so that they can actually make sure that the person has another job as fast as possible.

[00:26:40.630] - Leah Kallas

I think that that's really important that you do put into the employee in mind as much as you can if they're a really good employee. But I really go back to you're only paying if you're using. So the expense is on the use. And if you're using, I would imagine, like I said in the beginning when I was talking about, if you really want to your business and how to maximize, it's about using it properly, not so linear, not so like, Oh, we got a contract to hire this employee, or else, you don't have to. Especially with my company, I know we do supply our employees with benefits and PTO and among other things. Like I said, when you're looking to partner up, make sure that you're partnering up the right company that works for you, you know that you can trust and rely and that they're taking care of those employees so that if you want them back, you could because that's a good partner that you have with them.

[00:27:40.460] - Dan Paulson

Nice. Let's talk about the industry a little bit. First question I got to ask is, how are you getting hundreds of interviews? What's your trick?

[00:27:48.560] - Leah Kallas

Repetitiveness. My greatest analogy I use to recruiters that are in our office is everybody wants that needle in the haystack. Everybody wants it. So the only way you're going to find a needle is you got to call every piece of hay. Interview them, interview them, interview them. Eventually, you'll find that needle. And then once you find that needle, Here's another stack of hay. Now call them and keep doing that. So that's what we do at Great Lakes. Our recruiters just recruit all day long. They have to have a minimum of 40 recruit calls a day. We are looking for an average of 10 board of new employees. So they're just calling and calling over 200 recruit calls in a week minimum. And with all the multiple in-house recruiters that we have, and we even have some outsourced ones, you think about, how are we doing it? It's just numbers. And having enough people that are just focusing on that recruiting end of it. They don't have to manage the employee once it's recruited. We have other areas and facets that will take care of the employee. They just need to source so we can find as many needles, use some hay here and there.

[00:29:00.750] - Leah Kallas

It happens. That's possible. And then sometimes you get something even better than a needle. You get something glorious like a... Marlin was somehow in there, and now you got a really amazing direct tire on your hands. And it's all because you went through all of those pieces of hay to find out where you need to be.

[00:29:19.400] - Dan Paulson

So are these people who are actively seeking new positions, or are you reaching out to people who are currently employed who may not be in an active search right now?

[00:29:28.760] - Leah Kallas

All of the above.

[00:29:30.020] - Dan Paulson

Okay.

[00:29:31.330] - Leah Kallas

It cannot be one facet. If you're pulling from one source, you're never going to find it. You need to be on every type of item of sourcing. We've got apps, we've got a direct application, we've got in-house where you can come in and apply directly. We've got Indeed, Zip, all of those, Craigslist. We're still on there because you'd be surprised. You will find things on there. Facebook, LinkedIn, every source that you can use, you should be utilizing, being involved in community programs, things like that. That is how you're going to really maximize your effort. And this is where I redirect clients. I ask them, Do you have time to do that? Will you be able to grow your company to do all of that. And that is why we're great, because if you don't, that's the answer. The answer is you don't. So then if you need somebody, you need somebody to look for it, you're not paying while a company is looking for it. You just pay once they found around them.

[00:30:31.600] - Dan Paulson

Got it. So let's talk a little bit more about the general nature of things. What's your observations of the labor market right now? I mean, again, Rich and I have talked at length in the past that we're dealing with different generations that have different needs. That's one thing. We're also dealing with generations that have a much smaller workforce footprint than, say, some of the outgoing generations like Gen X and even the millennials now. People don't realize it. We've actually been talking about millennials now for close to 20 plus years, and they're now in their mid-forties and starting to get in their 50s, and thinking about what's their retirement plan going to be. What are you seeing out there?

[00:31:16.700] - Leah Kallas

You know what? It is a mix of what I'm seeing. So there is an excitement because you are starting to see some younger people actually be inspired and realize that maybe going in the traits might be better for them. They are less likely to incur college debt, and they're more likely to make a stable income right away. Those candidates, when I find them, I love them, and I love getting a hold of them and just molding them and growing them and seeing them motivated. And then, of course, then you get those candidates that just... Allergic to work, it seems like. They had a Benadryl that you could give them that helped them not be allergic to work. That would be amazing.

[00:32:06.240] - Dan Paulson

So it's not just us. Thank goodness.

[00:32:08.990] - Leah Kallas

No, it just it seems to be happening. The idea that a 32 hour work week is excessive. It just seems odd for me. I'm like 32 hours. That's half the work week. Half of it. So I mean, You got to think about it. They're younger. You got to think about even when you were younger, we're all still, when we're younger, we're moldable. So I don't get discouraged when I see it. The only thing that happens is I go, How can I encourage a change? And I would encourage more people to think that way. How can you make an impact for the difference? How can you encourage this younger generation to realize that actually work is good for you? It gives you a purpose in life. It gives you a direction. It can motivate you to want to wake up at 5, 4 o'clock in the morning because you're like, I got things to do, right? That purpose will actually create a more well-balanced in your mind. You're less likely to deal with depression, anxiety, because you've got drive, you've got purpose, you've got a reason to wake up in the morning. So So sure, they're out there.

[00:33:32.300] - Leah Kallas

My advice is to encourage them to realize that working hard is not bad. You shouldn't be allergic to it, and that it actually will help you with a lot of your problems.

[00:33:44.790] - Dan Paulson

So here's where I've got to... I've just got to ask this. Influence of social media. Everyone thinks they're going to be a social media star, so that's part of it. But how do business owners or leaders get that message out? How do they educate this up and coming generations, or the next several generations, that the value of work goes beyond just earning a dollar? It gives you purpose. It gives you direction.

[00:34:11.850] - Leah Kallas

I love that you ask that question, because I hope some people actually hear this, because with things are changing, right? We are, especially older generations, are used to just that sternness and negative, almost, reinforcement. We got to be creative. This younger generation needs positive reinforcement. So how do you do it? You create a positive atmosphere. Give them more attaboy's. Say you're doing a great job. Be like, Life seems rough for you. What could we do to make it better today for you? What task today would you prefer to do on the job site? Be more positive and motivating, and I guarantee you're going to see better results. Social media, you certainly can use it, but I still That face-to-face value will always win. It will be AI every day. It's going to be social media every day. Just really connecting with people, I think, is very, very important. I would encourage people in leadership roles to go see the people on the floor, whether it's the shop floor or it's in the construction site. Go on the floor. Go say, Hey, what's going on? How's the day going? You're doing great work. Keep it up.

[00:35:28.640] - Leah Kallas

Things like that, I think, will encourage that. I think the younger generation, because of social media, because of the pressure of everything else and everything that they've been exposed to, they do well with positive reinforcement more than that negative, I'm going to write you up, scenarios.

[00:35:50.240] - Dan Paulson

That's a great point. Rich, do you have any questions to add to that?

[00:35:54.440] - Rich Veltre

No, I love what you said because I think it is a bit of reinforcing rather than the negativity. But just the overall factor here that I've been throwing out there, even in the last week or two, is communication. The minute you take out the communication, everybody starts to go their own direction. And then they get miserable because there's nothing to follow. There's no leader, because the leader is missing because he's not saying anything. So the minute you throw that factor in there, the communication becomes just enormous, and it's an enormous fix. If you can If you don't fix that, a lot of times, you fix a lot of things that you don't realize you need it to fix. So communication is huge. I do think still that staffing has a very, very big promising future, because I do think that it's going to go more and more that direction. I think people are going to realize, hey, this worked for me, that I don't need somebody sitting at the desk playing solitaire for two days because I need them the other three. So, yeah, I think there's a lot to be said. I definitely appreciate the fact that you brought up the communication, though.

[00:37:07.010] - Leah Kallas

Yeah. I mean, I think that's just number one. When you were talking, I was just even thinking about how some employees, if you're not communicating, they get in their own head. They start to think, he doesn't like me or she doesn't like me, whoever their boss is. They're dissatisfied. I'm not doing well enough. So it's simple going over to them and saying, You're doing great. And you know what? And this sounds so silly, right? You would think that we don't need to be told this, but I really appreciate you showing up on time every day. You're supposed to be here at 6:00, and you're here at 5:45 every day. That's awesome. I mean, I'm impressed. Keep it up.

[00:37:51.330] - Dan Paulson

I can hear the Gen X is rolling their eyes right now.

[00:37:55.000] - Leah Kallas

I know.

[00:37:56.220] - Dan Paulson

I had to fix myself a sandwich in grade school. There was nobody there to take care of me. Damn it. Nobody told me I was doing good.

[00:38:03.720] - Leah Kallas

I promise you I completely understand. But when you're thinking about you're growing your employment market, right? And you think about as time as change. I mean, think about where we're at now in technology from like 20, 30 years ago. We've adapted. We changed. So in order to be successful, you have to adapt. You have to change. Otherwise, you're going to fail. You're going to fail. That's the answer. If you don't adapt and change. Instead of being so frustrated about, Oh, they need hats on the back? Yeah. You probably should have gotten them yourself anyway.

[00:38:41.070] - Dan Paulson

I remind these guys, this is the generation you created. These were the kids that went to soccer camp, and to baseball camp, and to basketball camp, and they were in every single activity. They were constantly coached in their life, and they were constantly given positive feedback. I mean, we didn't tell people they They got participation trophies because we just made that up. That was actually something that was implemented. So when they're expecting positive feedback and you're shocked by this, I go, why? This is what you wanted.

[00:39:16.830] - Leah Kallas

Most definitely, what do they call it? The helicopter parentate. I think with my children, one of my infamous quotes, I always say, what does mom like? And they're like, self-sufficient children. And I'm like, I'm like, somebody will thank me someday. I have a participation award in my house. But that doesn't mean that I don't adapt to the labor force and breeding people. Some people may not need it as much, but certainly, if you're trying to mold some of those younger minds to be really successful, just say it. You're doing a good job. It's not going to hurt you.

[00:39:55.960] - Dan Paulson

It definitely won't. There's a lot of… I mean, everything out there is negative right now. You go on social media, you go on the news. We just tend to be wired negative as it is. So getting those attaboy's and positive feedbacks, it really is necessary.

[00:40:12.460] - Leah Kallas

Yeah, 100%. I think even when I'm looking at my own social media, sometimes I want to rant and rave about what I'm upset about for the day. And I'm thinking, why do I need to send out that negativity instead? Let's send out some positivity. Because everybody's thinking the end of the world is coming every other day on social media. Why not send out? No, it's not. Let's make a change. Let's impact a difference because we can if we focus on what we can do to make things better.

[00:40:43.500] - Dan Paulson

That would be great. We should do more of that. Let's make a pact, Leah. We'll do more of that.

[00:40:48.450] - Leah Kallas

I'm here for the pact.

[00:40:50.540] - Dan Paulson

All right. Sounds good. Leah, thank you for joining us. How can people get a hold of you if they need your help finding staffing, which they all do?

[00:41:02.230] - Leah Kallas

Before I say that, one last mark. My favorite is when I do introduce myself, and it will say, no soliciting in front of their door, because I like to introduce myself in person. And they're like, Oh, they'll say, Did you read that sign? And it'll soliciting. They say, Oh, no, I saw the sign. It said hiring. I want to help you take that down. They certainly- That's a good approach. They're definitely need me help with hiring. But I digress. You can find us. We're online. We're on LinkedIn, Facebook, Book, Great Lakes Skill Trades. My office location is out of Germantown. We're very visible and easy. Google search, you'll find us. Give us a call, and then we'll be there to help.

[00:41:43.130] - Dan Paulson

All right. What regions do you cover? Just the Midwest or are you all over?

[00:41:47.360] - Leah Kallas

We have our Ohio and Michigan and Wisconsin right now. We are still ramping up and growing. But just due to the nature of what we're trying to do culturally, we're not trying to grow too fast, too soon. We really want to... I think our cultural... What we're trying to create is really that white glove service where it's like, you really know who your clients are, you know who your employees are, and you're very, very involved in making sure that your client and the employee is successful. So that's why we're just in the three areas right now, but we will be growing even more shortly here.

[00:42:26.740] - Dan Paulson

All right. So would you say, Indiana, Ohio, and Wisconsin? Wisconsin?

[00:42:31.190] - Leah Kallas

Michigan.

[00:42:32.220] - Dan Paulson

Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin. All right.

[00:42:34.330] - Leah Kallas

That's actually where our headquarters is in Grand Rapids. Got it.

[00:42:38.750] - Dan Paulson

All right. Cool. Rich, how do they get a hold of you?

[00:42:42.460] - Rich Veltre

E-mail is usually the best. Rveltre@veltregroup.com.

[00:42:45.760] - Dan Paulson

And you can get a hold of me at danpaulsonletsgo.com. Leah, again, it was wonderful to have you on here. I'm sure we're going to be talking about employment a lot more in the future. We'd love to have you back at some point, so hopefully you can join us then.

[00:43:00.490] - Leah Kallas

I would love that.

[00:43:01.890] - Dan Paulson

All right. Very good. All right. Thanks again, everybody. And we will catch you next week. Take care.

[00:43:07.550] - Rich Veltre

Take care. Bye.