Ramon Ray: Becoming A Celebrity CEO

[00:00:00.020] - Ramon Ray

The Books and the Biz, a podcast that looks at both the financial and operational sides of success. Please welcome our hosts, Dan Paulson and Richard Veltre. Dan is the CEO of Envision Development International, and he works with leaders to increase sales and profits through great cultures with solid operations. Rich is CEO of the Veltre Group and a financial strategist working with companies to manage their money more effectively. Now on to the podcast.

[00:00:32.440] - Dan Paulson

Thank you, Alice. Alice is not nearly as lively as our guest today. We are joined today by the great and wonderful Ramon Ray, and I've got his website up here. I will pull that away so you can see that handsome guy. Ramon, how are you doing?

[00:00:48.940] - Ramon Ray

You know, Dan, I feel blessed and well. Just had some eggs and toast and sausage, beef sausage, and had a two-minute workout because it rained, and I I didn't feel like getting wet. That's just how it is. I figured that was a sign that I could not finish my workout outside. And here I get to talk to you and Rich. I am doing blessed and fantastic.

[00:01:09.060] - Dan Paulson

Awesome. Well, yes, I am here with my good old pal Rich Veltrey. Rich, how are you doing?

[00:01:14.680] - Rich Veltre

I am Doing well. I had the same experience this morning. I was supposed to do a mile and a half walk, and it was pouring. I said, No, I don't think I'm going to do that.

[00:01:22.460] - Ramon Ray

How did you feel, Rich? I'm just curious, Dan, if you don't mind. I know it's your show, Dan. I'm curious. No, go ahead. Did you feel excited? Like, Yay, I get to go back inside and watch a movie? Or are you like, No, I wanted to run outside today? How was your attitude, Rich?

[00:01:34.390] - Rich Veltre

Well, the problem is that when the walk didn't happen, I wound up sitting at the desk and going back to work. So it would have been nice to stay out there and actually do the mile and a half walk.

[00:01:45.900] - Ramon Ray

I hear you.

[00:01:47.590] - Dan Paulson

And here it is, sunny and warm in Wisconsin, but I'm going to be spending the afternoon in track me, so I'll get my sunshine in. Ramon, again, thank you for joining us today. There is a lot of wonderful things that you do. I've known you for a number of years now. It's been a while. About five or six years ago. And I've always been interested and inspired by what you do. As you know, you are quite the motivational speaker, and you do a lot of that. But you've also had a number of businesses over the years that you have developed and sold. And I guess, why not share with the audience a little bit about your background? How did you get to where you're at today?

[00:02:25.730] - Ramon Ray

Sure. So, yeah, definitely. And again, everybody who's watching a live and/or archived on demand, as they say, thanks for being here. And again, Dan, thank you for having me, Rich. Thank you for having me. But the summary of it is today, I am a motivational keynote speaker. I work with large brands and/or large conferences, primarily, and make sure their events are never, ever boring. So professional emcee as it were, to stitch together the agenda, the audience, the sponsors, to shine the light on other people and uplift them, bring them on and off the stage as an emcee or a motivational keynote speaker. All the things in Dan's brain that he helps people do, I just talk about it and make it seem so exciting. I could talk about profit and loss and make it. How to spell profit or loss? Talk to Dan. But that's what I do, keynote speaker and/or event host. Then, as you know, Dan started several blogs, smallbiztechnology. Com and sold that, smarthustle. Com and sold that. An event business some years ago, Small Business Summit and sold that. And today, I'm the publisher of zoneofgenius. Com. Small right now, hardly any revenue right now, but that's the playbook when you start a new domain, new site.

[00:03:35.280] - Ramon Ray

It takes a while for it to get along, but the media content space is my forte. And then the third thing is really in this season shift, Dan and Rich, and this is probably your body of work. You help businesses, I'm guessing, do these things. But is that in this season, more and more people like Ramon, can you help us do what you've done for yourself? Historically, I've said no to it, but now more and more, I'm open to it. So hope that's helpful. I think you asked me the journey, too. I didn't answer that yet. I answered- Yeah.

[00:04:02.390] - Dan Paulson

So how did you get down this path?

[00:04:05.290] - Ramon Ray

Yeah. Again, the summary of it is that I spent a number of years working at the United Nations. That was right in the beginning of college. So I was maybe 19, 20. Many kids finished college earlier, but for me, that time frame, 19, 20-ish, somewhere around there. And one of the youngest hires, in fact, at the United Nations. I started there as a secretary. They called it administrative clerk, but secretary is a good word to use. And then ended up there as administrative officer. So the person who runs an office, carpet needs to be replaced, new walls, paint, internship program, security, petty cash, all this stuff, the admin stuff that isn't the non-things that our office did. So I was there a number of years, Dan and Rich, and then that was a time period of AOL, Prodigy, CompuServe, Microsoft front page. I see the nods, we OGs know it. Fbp, where AOL floppy, just a three and a half inch versions really popular mid '90s, I guess, if that- That's about right.

[00:05:03.980] - Dan Paulson

And you had to dial in. You didn't have like we have today.

[00:05:07.690] - Ramon Ray

And Dan, should we do, for those who don't know, what did it sound like? Shall we all do a course like, So that era, to give people a sense of where I started my journey. And the thing, Dan, is that I was at the United Nations in an office at the time where they didn't have the networked technology. Still, thumb drives. You'd go to Staples, like you'd go to Staples You'd have having thumb drives, Dan and Rich. That was like, you were the man. Like, oh, I got 20 thumb drives. You're writing down, I see those nods. So point is, help them network it. Download the Mozilla browser. The first getting online Domain, copy your server addresses, domain names. That was my world, which led me to this world of content. And I'll end here, Dan and it reaches that two things caused me to be where I am today. So since I was producing content online and still blogging at the time, Black enterprise and Inc, around the similar time, they said, Ramon, we'll pay you a dollar per word to write in our print magazine. So dollar per word, that's like a death sentence, like poverty.

[00:06:10.130] - Ramon Ray

Who wants a dollar for anything? Can you write 3,000 words? Can you write 4,000 words? I was like, Oh, I'm thinking dollar per word. I'm not... I didn't know the context. So that gave me just the opening to the world of content and monetization, if it's changed today, but similar things. And then a similar thing happened. Somebody saw me speaking somewhere, small stuff, SCOR, SBA for a friend, and they're like, What's your fee for us to fly you out to XYZ conference? My fee? I'm like, Oh, my fee? You're not talking to me? And That opened the world again of paid speaking. So I hope that was helpful. But from the UN to being there at the right time of where this season of technology of networked computers was coming in, and the rest you just learned. And today we're in a TikTok generation.

[00:07:02.780] - Dan Paulson

So what possessed you? You mentioned you started several different business, sold off several different businesses. What was your impetus for selling each one-off?

[00:07:10.720] - Ramon Ray

Yeah, some was desperation, some was accidental. Fair enough. I'm impoverished, some was strategic. But I think the first... I've done it three times, I believe. Yeah, three times, I think. The first three times were not really strategic, basically, Dan. Opportunistic, someone like yourself, friends, those. Hey, but Ramon, what are you doing with this? Well, I'll drop you some cash. If I can have it, sure. Things like that. That's really the first three. The last one, those smart hustle, that was a big exit for me. And side note, Dan and Rich, Just to give people context, because I think numbers are important. These were sold, the last one, for a few hundred thousand. And I say that because we see the headlines of the big newspapers, millions and billions. But I just want the audience to understand you can live a decent life and do well. It's not headlinable. Everyone's not a valuation, Netflix stock. No. Just to give context of numbers. But the point is, the last one, Smart Hustle, that was sold to Zen business, which is a competitor to legal Zoom and others. Dan, out of the blue, Ramon, we see your blog.

[00:08:21.700] - Ramon Ray

We can either do it all from scratch or just buy you out. What would you like? God bless America. They wired me the money. It's yours. I didn't even think about it. My friends are like, Ramone, isn't it your baby? Well, for that amount of money? No, it's not my baby. I'm good.

[00:08:36.130] - Dan Paulson

Everything has a price, right?

[00:08:37.980] - Ramon Ray

Yes. Now, Dan and Rich, now that I have this understanding, the fourth time now, yes, zoneofgenius. Com, it's still a bit slow. Dan, you and I have talked in private. Ramon is still figuring things out. You have that business acumen. I'm a creator, first and foremost, not the business knowledge. That's another tip for people. But point is that I'm doing my best to build a little more strategically, and I have a feeling it will be sold at some point. Not that I couldn't build it into the buzz feed of whatever, but my patience level, my experience, the fun is not for me to build a company and have a glass tower with 50 employees. That's not what I want to do. Right.

[00:09:14.300] - Dan Paulson

What is your strategy going with Zona genius?

[00:09:17.610] - Ramon Ray

Yeah. My strategy for it, and for anyone listening, I think that a few ways you can monetize content. So let's think what is content? Gary Dana, the father of modern day social media, I'm sure one of his books behind me and Seth Godin, the father of the permission marketing, old school marketing. I have these books here. So here's the strategy of it for anyone in content, if it's helpful for those. You're pushing this content out along of which you do. We're having this discussion today with Dan and Which do I assume in some way it'll tie into that? Content. People can stop the scroll. Three ways I can have better shirts that are white around the neck or six ways to live a healthier life with water bottles. I'm exaggerating. Whatever the topic is, somebody's interested to it. So now you got their attention. Now, hopefully, as they get more into your funnel, which I'm sure hopefully most of your audience understands these things, funnel and you can build trust, now you can sell them something. It's my friend Shay Brown. It's not slimy, it's not bad. I need to build a house. I want to go to construction blogs.

[00:10:21.760] - Ramon Ray

So my point being with zone of genius, that's the similar model. Thousands and thousands of small businesses follow us every month, read us every month to get insight on how to build their business like they do Inc, entrepreneur. Your content, I'm sure, Dan, on various platforms. We're all in that game, and we do as best we can to serve. Then in my case, building a media company, your monetization may be clients. For me, mine, I want to be paid by PayPal saying, Ramon, here's a few thousand so we can help reach your audience, which is the same thing if New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Forbes, television. Is that helpful?

[00:10:56.450] - Dan Paulson

That is very helpful. Now, I know you wrote a book not too long ago about becoming a celebrity CEO. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about that? Because I think that's something that many of the listeners here probably have some interest in is expanding their business. And what you're suggesting to do with that to just really become your own celebrity.

[00:11:17.100] - Ramon Ray

That's right. That's right, exactly. So here's the concept of celebrity CEO. And again, as I said, the inside joke between me and Dan, while my strength may not be as core of the solid business, one thing I do well is the personal branding, getting attention. That's my forte, getting attention, getting attention. So the aspect of celebrity CEO, Dan and Rich, is really about a few things. How can I be well known in my market? Not trying to be President Biden or President Trump or whatever famous person of the day, Uber famous person, Michael Jackson that we all know. No, because few of us will be there. But it's in my small town or in my industry, am I known? That's the bottom line. I'm a real estate lawyer for seniors in Tallahassee, wherever it may be. Am I well known in that? Am I on the board of the chambers? Have I written my book? Are people calling me to do this? Am I getting visibility? So the celebrity CEO challenges people. You can be well known or the celebrity of your brand in your industry. Taking me as an example, as you know to some degree, Dan, I am very, very well known as a small business thought leader for large brands.

[00:12:29.800] - Ramon Ray

That's very, I'm very niche. I'm not saying I'm Marcus Limones, the Prophet on CNBC, and even him. Everybody doesn't even know him. But I'm saying, no. If you're a large brand, Salesforce, Microsoft, AT&T, and that narrow lane, large brand selling to small businesses, I'd probably work with you at some point over the past 20 years and today. So that's the aspect that I challenge everybody to be the celebrity. So your mindset coach, your name is Becky, and you're in Alaska. Maybe it's not regionally, but maybe it's for divorced women who are older, you're very well known in that. So I hope that's helpful. Yeah.

[00:13:05.770] - Dan Paulson

So what are some strategies that you would recommend people like me who would have a small business who would be trying to build that celebrity level locally? What would we have to do? Sure.

[00:13:17.670] - Ramon Ray

Yeah. And I think there are two things. I think the local sometimes is harder than broad, but locally, that's just really being out and about. Are you on various boards? Are you adding value? I talked about this today on my show. Are you showing up. Is Dan, in your case, Dan, if I was advising you, is he everywhere? What state are you in, Dan, if you don't mind? I don't know if it's a secret. Wisconsin.

[00:13:38.900] - Dan Paulson

It's not a secret.

[00:13:39.690] - Ramon Ray

There's no security around you. I don't want all his fans, Rich, to start, Oh, we found it where Dan's dad. We're going to chase him. In Wisconsin- I should be so lucky. Me, me, me, me, me, Dan. Rich are like, I wish there was somebody chasing me. But in your case, Dan, Wisconsin, so let's say that's a local play, not trying to be online, but that means the Wisconsin chamber, Wisconsin SCOR, Wisconsin SBA, and I'm sure there's small towns and all that, but give me grace here. But the Wisconsin, the top 10, 20 business leaders, if there's a Crane's New York type thing of Wisconsin, not sure, but I'm sure there's some business magazine for local business leaders. Are you there once in a while? All those things Dan should be showing up as he can over time. Then it may take a year, may take six months. Then as people people are looking, Hey, you're stuck with your business and you're in Wisconsin, you're at the library because the librarians just read about Dan in the local magazine, she's going to refer you. That's that local celebrity status. It's just showing up, adding value, producing content.

[00:14:45.140] - Ramon Ray

Then online is the same way, a little harder because there's so much diffused technology. But similar way, you're using the right reels, the hashtags, you're doing your IG lives. It seems like a slog for some. But those who wish to do that, You keep showing up online. Many people, Dan, you could be one. I'm not sure, but it depends on how you follow me, I'm hearing more and more, Ramone, we see you everywhere. I'm not Serena Williams or take your celebrity the day. I'm not. But to them, because they've chosen to see how do I start my small business, they will see Ramone more and more.

[00:15:20.600] - Dan Paulson

I definitely see a lot of your stuff. Rich, you've been silently listening to all this go on. I've been asking a lot of questions. I'm going to turn over to you for a little while.

[00:15:28.570] - Rich Veltre

Yeah, I love the concept of the celebrity CEO, and I'm probably not... I don't know if I'm formulating a question here or not, but I'm definitely throwing out a story. I love it. I'm a two-time founder. So my first time, I was always, I'm in stealth mode. So I'm just going to be quiet about it. I'm going to build it slowly. I'm going to build it out of the house, and that thing. And then the pandemic hits, and then you're forced to come back and do something the second time, and you're going to do it fast faster, and you realize stealth mode doesn't work. So again, I don't know that I have a big question other than, I think I really get it because the second time around, I had to be very vocal. I had to be somebody completely different than I was for 11 years before the pandemic. So I really do get it. I will compliment you, though. You do a lot better than I do.

[00:16:26.170] - Ramon Ray

Thank you. Let me touch on that, Rich. The That's the aspect of the stealth mode. I think you're right. Now, to some people, I'm not sure exactly how you are, Rich and Dan, I'm not quite sure, but you all get a sense. I happen to be. It's how God made me the outward, raising my hand, attention seeking. I hope that's not a bad way so much. There can be some badness to it, but I'm not the shy person, which can be bad, too. I am built different. Totally, I'll own that. My point, Rich, to what you're saying is that to many business owners, No, I just want to get my customer waiting in my retail store. They walk by. Hi. You're right. Most are happy to do that. Just walk in and give me the $3 and here's your bag of chips or whatever. I totally get that mindset, Rich, and you're not alone in that. Maybe half or whatever of business owners, do I have to be on TikTok? You don't have to. But the key is, as my buddy Lamar Tyler has a community called Traffic, Sales, and Profit, in some way, Rich, as I know you agree, right?

[00:17:25.170] - Ramon Ray

Stealth mode or not, you have to get a customer. Unless it's the US government, where you and some spy are meeting in the back of the room and they give you a billion dollar contract, which really happens. Most of us, in some way, you have to get a customer. To get that customer, you have to make some noise, whether it's loud, mouthful like Ramon, whether it's mediocre like Dan, whether it's a little quiet. Rich, somehow you have to get out there. To those who are maybe shy or those who have that thing, I don't want somebody to steal my idea. That's a real thing. Talk to Dan, Rich. Talk to somebody about the IP and all that. That's the real stuff. But most of the time I find Rich, it's too much. I have an idea for a black water bottle. It's going to be insulated. I don't want no one to know it because I'm going to put a pink dot on the front. I don't want somebody to copy me. Really? Get that sucker on Etsi and make some sales, as Mark Keban would say. So I hear you totally, Rich, and welcome.

[00:18:26.100] - Ramon Ray

Glad you're being more bold.

[00:18:31.440] - Dan Paulson

Now, Ramon, you are obviously the expert in content creation. Sure. You are the loud outgoing. I would say most of us are probably closer to maybe Rich and I when it comes to that. But you talk about content. One of the biggest challenges, I think most business owners, because while your job is content creation, most of ours really is not. We're working with a client. It's very hard to do a video or a YouTube post or even something like what we're doing now, a podcast. What do you recommend for those business owners that products, services are different than just producing marketing content? What would you recommend to them? Because there are so many different channels. I mean, you point out TikTok, for example. You can do things on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn, all the above. So what do you pick? How do you know?

[00:19:23.190] - Ramon Ray

Three paths I think, that people have on this journey of leveraging the power of content. The simplest path, I I do think every business owner, notwithstanding which channel, should consider LinkedIn if it's appropriate or TikTok, you really have to have volume. But let's talk about B2B as it were business owners. Linkedin, twice a week, post, connect with people, Build relationships that you have an offline, did I say yes, offline coffee with meetup. At the very least, just use it for that old-school word-of-mouth marketing, but at least post a bit, comment, discipline yourself if you're taking the train in your car, whatever you're doing, browse there. That's level one. Just be in there as minimal as you can, but make purposeful connections, level one. Number two, commit to doing something regular, your weekly podcast, your email newsletter, website, something like that, whether you do it or you hire an EA, hire a social media manager from the US or overseas, where the cost of living is different and it's just a little cheaper. Set it in respect of other countries. That's number two, where you're saying, You know what? I'm not going to be like a Ramone, but I'm going to do a bit more.

[00:20:35.830] - Ramon Ray

Like you're doing here, Rich. Dan, I'm going to have my podcast. Somebody else may edit it a bit. We'll rip it apart, post it a little more often to get a little more brand lift for the Dan Paulson and Rich brand. That's number two. Number three, create a whole agency. I'm not talking about having a TV, but you may say, No, we're a plumbing company and we want every day to go out. Hey, welcome to The Plumming Show. Toilet stuck. This is called a snake Here's how it works. Now, and you go all in. Rich is like, You know what? I think I'm going to get in the plumbing. And you go all in and you do that every day as it were. I hope that's a little helpful, but one is the minimal. Do use social media to just maximize what you already been doing minimally to what you can do on your own. Now, the returns, I don't know if it's worth it because in the middle is an icky place. It's like LeBron saying, I'll practice halfway. Well, he's not going to be LeBron. But then three is building a more substantive agency, one or two people to just help scale it.

[00:21:36.300] - Dan Paulson

Awesome. Rich, what else you got here?

[00:21:41.630] - Rich Veltre

Yeah, I think that was a big question that do... Okay, I'll rephrase it. Sorry for the stutter here.

[00:21:51.980] - Ramon Ray

You are great rich.

[00:21:56.190] - Rich Veltre

Okay, so LinkedIn. Love LinkedIn. Have I've loved it for years. Do the same thing that you just said. The difference now is the world's changing to video, right? And so there's a lot of pressure. Oh, you have to be video. You have to be video. You have to be video. So I have to ask you that question. Is it something that you can do still in the old school, which is writing, or do you really have to become the video? Because a lot of times the video, I saw something the other day where there was a, I think it was a senior facility that hired a woman to do their videos, and she was horrible. But because she was horrible, here's the funny part, everybody went to see her.

[00:22:42.270] - Ramon Ray

What was she doing? She was doing it for the client, or she was an internal person trying her best. Hey, I dropped it. Sorry, where's there? As I was saying, there's a reception desk.

[00:22:51.720] - Rich Veltre

That's what she was trying. It was an internal person that was doing it, and everybody went to see her because they all were trying, whether they were going to laugh at her or going to to support her. She got more video hits than anybody else in the world. I'm looking at it saying, Well, I can go out and I can trip over something and make everybody laugh, and then everybody's going to see me trip. But is video, Rich, in your mind, do you think the video is really the better way to go?

[00:23:18.980] - Ramon Ray

May I take a side issue, Rich, because I cannot help myself. The humorist in me is just salivating. Got it. Rich, what you can do... See, I'm laughing. I didn't say what I want to I'm laughing. It's so funny for me. You and Rich could just do a show. You and Dan could just do a show, Rich, and now we're spoiling it. But I can see, it would be the most hilarious. Rich, if you don't mind, what's your expertise, Rich? Just tell me real quick. I'm a CPA. Okay, I'm a CPA. I can see where you and Dan are doing a show about money and the video's off, you think it's on, and you're going on with a bit where Dan is trying to tell you the video's off. It would just be insane. We were like, Dan is like, Well, the content you gave was great rich. Now we know the importance of balance sheets, but nobody saw you rich. Oh, now you're there as the show is closing. Side note, but sometimes, though, the silliest things that we don't mean to do bring attention. Having said that Rich, to get back in it.

[00:24:16.970] - Ramon Ray

Video is important. Video is powerful, yes, but it's not a must. Podcasts are growing. Audio only experience, that's number two. Then number three, I want to get back Back to what I said, Rich, taking you in a case, let's say you and Dan, Dan is the video guy. He's trying to pull Rich along Rich, we got to do it. Rich is like, no. Rich could say very purposely, let's say you're in Wisconsin, wherever, just give me grace here, is that Rich is like, no, Dan, for what I'm going to do, I'm just going to purposely reach out bit at a time. See, I just made a valuable connection to somebody in the governor's office. I was invited to speak at the governor's panel. No video, no huge social. You just over time, though, commented on the right comments, made good relationships. Hey, listen, I loved your post that you wrote about how you have a new Wisconsin doggy kennel. I know there's cities in Wisconsin, but Wisconsin doggy kennel. Look, I heard your pain point about how you had 100 dogs a month, but you're still losing money. Would you like me to stop by?

[00:25:17.460] - Ramon Ray

I can stop by and just show you a few things. Please do. New client. I hope that's helpful. That's still the one-to-one combat, still the non-scalable way, but I think that still works. For me, though, yes, I am building the scalable thousands of followers, nurture campaigns, marketing automation, IG, text campaigns. That's my world. But I'm glad you're bringing an outreach, and I think it's interesting, the three of us here, you can be the character. You can have that one. I don't know if I want to do SMS campaigns. Is there another way? There is. You have to pick which lane you want. Everybody doesn't have to be a Ramona of pushing out content or Dan getting into it more. Rich may say, I I understand it, but I'm just going to still have a coffee every Saturday. And that person I found was through LinkedIn.

[00:26:07.780] - Dan Paulson

Okay, there you go. Hey, another question for you. So content. We've talked about it, but You often hear that you got to make your content viral. You got to make it something that will produce clicks, whether it is a video, whether it is audio, whether it is a meme, a picture, a list, whatever it might be. What are some of the recommendations? Because I think most of us get that creator's block where, okay, maybe I think I've seen this a hundred times before. How do I make something memorable that somebody is going to click on and say, yeah, I got to read that, or I've at least got to watch that?

[00:26:45.000] - Ramon Ray

Yeah, virality, Dan, it's very hard to do, and I think it's something we all want to do. Yeah, I've been viral many times. When I got 52 likes, what I do, Dan, what you have to do is redo the ceiling. You have to redo. It's like the Olympics. What's fast, Rich? Going 100 feet in seven seconds. I don't even know what that means. Let's make it up, whatever. So you just recast it. We want you to go 100 feet in one hour. Welcome to Dan's Olympics. You read. But I'm joking it a bit. But my point being, Dan, most people will not get millions of hits unless to the lady at the nursing home who didn't mean to. But I think the name of the game is the Consistency. I will give one small tip. Good headlines do work. We all are scrollers. We all flip past on TV. All of us do it. Dan, stop. I haven't seen that show because you like Navy Seals and Rich likes Underwater Discovery. What stops the scroll? My point being, it's hard because we see what other people are doing. But instead of trying to go viral, I would say trying to be of service and try to at least have a good descriptive headline.

[00:28:00.170] - Ramon Ray

Back on your taxes, here's three ways not to go to jail. Making a lot of money but can't pay yourself. I had this tip for my client. Things like that, which is right in the wheelhouse of what you all do.

[00:28:14.080] - Dan Paulson

Sure.

[00:28:14.530] - Ramon Ray

That's the thing that can work. I know it's hard, Dan. It's so tough. But if you're trying to go viral, it's going to be hard to do so. And I think the people that really are going viral have big. That's Dan, the business coach, who's doing nothing about that, but he's He's playing with his cat in a dark basement with a fluorescent ball of yarn. And he's getting millions of hits, nothing to do with what he's doing. If Dan wishes to do so, God bless you.

[00:28:45.700] - Dan Paulson

That does seem to be the case, doesn't it? Yeah.

[00:28:48.040] - Ramon Ray

There is something there. That's why I want to... Let me just underline it again, Dan. Sure. Understand the creators, let's say it's Dan. He's like, Hey, everybody, I'm going to see, can I eat 4 million barrels of cheese in one hour? Watch me do it. There is a market for that. That stupid, silly stuff we said we don't watch, but me, Rich, and Dan do watch it. We scroll every once in a while. We're in the supermarket waiting for somebody, and we watch that crap. There's a money to be made there, but you have to choose. Is that the game you want to play versus the little more slow and steady and boring content helping people build their businesses, of which all three of us do, as it were. We're all doing the same game, but Dan has a very special following. Rich has a very special way he shows up, and Ramon has a way he shows I think that's the key issue there is you got to make sure that whatever you do, you're all in on.

[00:29:36.040] - Dan Paulson

Stick to it. Be consistent. It's going to take time. Nothing happens overnight, especially when it comes to marketing like this. That's right. Excellent. Ramon, If they want you as a speaker, how do they get a hold of you there?

[00:29:48.630] - Ramon Ray

What did you say, Dan? You said if they want what? Was that again?

[00:29:50.410] - Dan Paulson

They want you as a speaker.

[00:29:51.450] - Ramon Ray

Want me as a speaker? You said they as a speaker. As a speaker.

[00:29:53.440] - Dan Paulson

A speaker.

[00:29:54.830] - Ramon Ray

Wonderful.

[00:29:55.930] - Dan Paulson

Get up on that stage.

[00:29:57.260] - Ramon Ray

If they want me as a speaker, no, but seriously, I'd love to serve anybody who's having a big event or small event is looking for somebody to be a motivational keynote speaker. It'll be fun. It'll be entertaining. Maybe we'll even learn something. If you don't, I'll call Dan and or an event host. I love doing that as well. But really, just go to ramoneray.com. Ramoneray.com, and I would love to serve anyone, even if they're in Wisconsin.

[00:30:18.620] - Dan Paulson

Wisconsin is not that bad.

[00:30:21.350] - Ramon Ray

Come on. It's not at all. Not at all.

[00:30:23.530] - Dan Paulson

Now, you also have Zone of genius. Why don't you talk about that a little bit? Give us the link so we can follow you there as well.

[00:30:29.390] - Ramon Ray

Thank you so If you want great insight and information on how to build your business, insights that are similar to what Dan talked about and et cetera. But if you like ink, you like entrepreneur, you'll like zoneofgenius.com, zoneofgenius.com.

[00:30:43.760] - Dan Paulson

You get an email every day, don't you?

[00:30:46.150] - Ramon Ray

That's right. There's Ramona Ray. I have my email list and then Zone of genius. Yes, probably more like twice a week, but I send so much content, Dan.

[00:30:51.920] - Dan Paulson

It feels like- It seems like every day. I see a lot.

[00:30:55.330] - Ramon Ray

I came to the bathroom and I just saw Ramon get out with my kids and Ramon again.

[00:31:03.480] - Dan Paulson

Rich, how do they get a hold of you?

[00:31:05.460] - Rich Veltre

E-mail is always the best at rveltre@veltregroup.com.

[00:31:09.620] - Dan Paulson

Excellent. You can always find me at danpaulsonletsgo.com. Ramon, as always, it's great to talk to you. It was even better to have you on here. See that high energy pop out as I always do. And it's good for you to liven up our boring podcast. So thank you for doing that.

[00:31:24.860] - Ramon Ray

Boring is good sometimes. Lots of information. Dan, thank you so much. Rich, nice to meet you.

[00:31:29.180] - Dan Paulson

You bet. Take care and we will talk to you soon.