Making Money In The Trades - From Better Profits to Better Pay

Being profitable in the trades doesn’t take an MBA. Both owners and employees need to understand how adding values can increase profits AND take-home pay for owners and employees alike. Leah Kallas from Great Lakes Skilled Trades will join us to share her observations as we compare what successful companies do to maximize revenue and retain talent.

About Leah: Leah Kallas is an industry professional and General Manager at Great Lakes Skilled Trades shares her insights into the economy, hiring, and what it takes to hiring new employees.

To contact Great Lakes Skilled Trades, go to: https://www.greatlakesskilledtrades.com/

Phone: 616-591-9300 Wisconsin: 262-573-5352

[00:00:12.14] - Alice

Hello. Welcome to Books in the Biz, a podcast that looks at both the financial and operational sides of success. Please welcome our hosts, Dan Paulson and Richard Veltre. Dan is the CEO of Envision Development International, and he works with leaders to increase sales and profits through great cultures with solid operations. Rich is CEO of the Veltri Group and a financial strategist working with companies to manage their money more effectively. Now on to the podcast.

[00:00:44.02] - Dan Paulson

Hello. Welcome to Books in the Biz. We are back for another exciting episode. Rich, how are you?

[00:00:49.03] - Richard Veltre

I'm doing well. How are you?

[00:00:50.23] - Dan Paulson

I am doing wonderfully. Leah Kallas, welcome back.

[00:00:54.17] - Leah Kallas

Hi. It's been a while.

[00:00:55.21] - Dan Paulson

Hi. So Leah is from Great Lakes Skilled Trades, and we, of course, belong to a similar trade association for construction. And we were having an interesting discussion last week, actually, and I thought it'd be worth bringing you on and talking further about that. So to kind of tee it up, this is how I interpret Leah. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but basically we're running into talent issues with. With construction workers. We'll just kind of leave it at that. But basically, you have seen through your experience ways that workers can make more income if they perform better, I'll call it. Or perform differently might be a better word, because there's this kind of unwritten rule that you might make more money somewhere, but if you're spending less time actually working, are you really making more money? I think that's kind of where the gist of the conversation started. And then the other side of it is, what are the employers doing that they can get better talent in? So that's where I'm going to kind of open it up. If I was completely wrong, you can take it from there and correct me. But that's basically the gist I got off of it.

[00:02:08.29] - Leah Kallas

Yeah, that is exactly what we're talking about. You know, I was actually talking about it recently with another owner of a company for a asphalt company, and we actually narrowed it down. It's kind of like the fable you've been growing up with. There's the tortoise and there's the hare.

[00:02:27.29] - Dan Paulson

Right.

[00:02:28.26] - Leah Kallas

And the hare never wins. It's the tortoise that wins. Why does the tortoise win? Because it runs on integrity and it runs on determination, and it does not run on over boasting what it's capable of doing, and it just keeps doing what it needs to do to get done on to the finish line. And I think that's a lot of what we're seeing. Sometimes in the trades, we have a lot of individuals that will think, I gotta chase a dollar and I need, I know my worth and I'm worth all of this. And they come in running and they take a lot of breaks and they miss the mark a lot. And they're benched first. And then you find out they're thinking they make more money, you know, because they're going in and they're demanding the higher wages and all of things. But they're benched more than the tortoise who takes that steady pay, does steady work, follows the protocol in order for the boss to call them in more over and over and over again because they're, they're the ones that they can rely on. In average, the hare is typically making $30,000 less a year than the torture.

[00:03:41.23] - Dan Paulson

That's a pretty significant pay cut.

[00:03:43.26] - Leah Kallas

Significant, yeah, because they're the first to get cut. You know, you got to think about when contractors are making bids, you know, they've, they're putting in manpower into the aspect of how long it's going to take, how, how much it's going to cost them to pay those employees the material and all those things that are always trying to beat it so they can hit their profit margins. Well, if the hair comes in demanding a higher pay and is not as fast as they think they are and they're, they're not showing up on time, you know, they're, they're, maybe they're not a good team player. They're actually costing the contractor money. So they're going to be the first to be set down on the bench and not get out to work well with the others. Meanwhile, the tortoise who's steadily working hard, punctual, is making steady money throughout the whole year and not really facing any layoffs. So I believe that that's kind of what we were going to kind of target and talk about.

[00:04:37.24] - Dan Paulson

Well before I turn this over to Rich, because I'm sure he has questions with it, I actually have a similar analogy. So I was working with a company and we have put in place an incentive structure that basically helped the employees make more money than they would have made had they just had a flat salary. So they had their hourly wage, plus then they had kind of two different profit sharing bonuses they worked on. And for a vast majority of the employees, it worked out to be it was like $1,000 extra a month that they were getting in their pocket. Now here's the difference though. These employees would talk to their friends and you know, they would say Well, I make $25 an hour because employees always talk about their wages. Doesn't matter what you say, they talk. And then they would learn from their friends, well, I'm making 27, $29 an hour. So then they go back to the boss and say, hey, these people are making more than I am. And we would sit down with them and we would explain. No, actually, if you do the math, you're making about 30 bucks an hour and they're actually making less than you.

[00:05:37.06] - Dan Paulson

The difference is you're getting paid this extra chunk of money each month and it's not all just tied into your, your pay or your salary. And this went on for a good three or four months. And finally the owner just threw his hands up in the air and said, fine, you want to make 29 an hour, you'll make $29 an hour. And the thousand dollar bonus went away. So they actually ended up, and I don't know the exact numbers here, it was fairly significant. So it was actually probably higher than that was probably more like $35 an hour that they were making with the bonus. They took it away, they were happy, but they were making thousands upon thousands of dollars less. And they didn't realize it because people are freaking bad at math. And you might even want to jump in on this one. I, I swear to God, the more people I talk with, they don't understand how numbers work. And they just look at one number and assume, well, this person's getting that. I should be getting that too. Well, you are, but you're getting more and you're kind of relating it to the same way where, yeah, you can sit there and beat your chest and say, well, I'm worth all this money.

[00:06:44.12] - Dan Paulson

But now if you're too expensive, you sit on the bench, especially if you're expensive and you don't show up on time, difficult to work with, and all these other issues. Right.

[00:06:54.24] - Leah Kallas

100%, Rich.

[00:06:57.16] - Dan Paulson

What questions do you have or what experiences can you share?

[00:07:02.22] - Richard Veltre

Well, I think that, you know, you're definitely hitting on something I'm always thinking about, which is slow and steady wins the race.

[00:07:08.17] - Dan Paulson

Right?

[00:07:08.26] - Richard Veltre

I mean, I always think that slow and steady wins the race. And you know, you're talking about it and I'm immediately thinking about one of my favorite movies, which is Moneyball.

[00:07:18.29] - Dan Paulson

Right?

[00:07:19.09] - Richard Veltre

And Moneyball actually is all about that, right. He wanted to get rid of all the A list players. He lost three of his A list players. And he said, how do I go about competing in the big, in the big leagues with a minor league team. And, you know, he was able to figure out, you know, exactly what we're talking about, that you get into the numbers. You don't get into the. The flashy player that gets all the money and he's sitting out in the outfield. And, you know, meanwhile, you've got a guy who's got no name and people can't even name necessarily, you know, pronounce his name. But he's probably your best player because he gets on base and he gets runs. And that's how they turned around and basically tried to win the pennant with one third of the payroll that the Yankees were playing. And they beat the Yankees. So, you know, if you go and you watch that movie, you know, I get credit for putting it out there, but, you know, if you go watch that movie, it's what it's all about. You know, you get down into, you want your best players and they don't necessarily have to cost you mega millions to do to do a better job.

[00:08:25.22] - Leah Kallas

Yeah. I always tell employees or people I'm looking to hire on, don't chase the dollar, chase the trade. And when you chase the trade with integrity and passion, the dollar is going to unfold really quick, really fast for you. But if you keep chasing the dollar and you're hopping around and we're seeing you go from concrete to masonry to carpentry, you're just a. You haven't learned any skill at all because you're jumping around. You're like, where they're gonna pay me 22? Oh, they're gonna be 20, 25 now they're gonna pay me 26. Next thing you know, you're 38, 40 years old, and, and you're still in that low 20s trying to get higher, but you can't because you never mastered your craft. And that's where the real value is. So I always say, chase that trade, don't chase the dollar, and it's gonna unfold. And then when I say, also, make sure when you're doing that, understand what it takes to be successful in the trades. I mean, that's super important. It's not just, okay, I'm going to be really good at my craft. Okay, you could be really amazing at craft. But if you're not showing up to work on time, I mean, and on time, that means 10 to 15 minutes early.

[00:09:35.03] - Leah Kallas

If you show up at 7am and you're scheduled for 7, you're late. Because let's get real, you, you're getting out of your car or your truck or Whatever. You got to put your boots on. Probably don't even have straps. You gotta put your tool belt on, right? You gotta stretch. Maybe you smoke cigarettes. I don't know what you're doing, but you're straggling in. You're not even on the job site working. You know, that's late. You were scheduled for seven. You should be working at seven. So 10 to 15 minutes early is on time. Otherwise you're late. That's. Everybody's gonna tell you you're late. And that's why, because that's what you're scheduled to start working. So if you can't be there actually on time, you always have excuses. You're calling in all the time, which pushes back the. The timeline for the job site to get done. Why are we going to call you and, oh, well, I can't today, but I can tomorrow. Well, tomorrow we already need to be done, right? So I don't need you tomorrow. If you don't show up today, you don't need to be even coming in tomorrow. I'm done.

[00:10:30.16] - Leah Kallas

I'm already done with the job. I called somebody else that's going to show up. So that's how you can become, like, completely unvaluable. Sure, you're skilled, but what's the point of being skilled if you don't come to work? And, you know, if you're taking extra breaks, you're having a lot of excuses while you can't, you know, work. You can't be a team player. You're too arrogant to take any constructive criticism to become better. You're really not as valuable as you think then. I mean, I, you know, it's more than just even that. Slow and steady runs the race. It's also just making sure you understand what it takes to be successful actually in the trades. So it's a constant struggle. I feel like today's society, you know, we look at our school systems and things that they don't drill in, that that work ethic is super important when it really is. You know, I think one of the things too, I always hear, work, live life, balance. And I always say, how about this? Work gives you balance.

[00:11:27.08] - Dan Paulson

Yes. Discipline gives you balance.

[00:11:29.27] - Leah Kallas

It just does. People are depressed more often than not if they don't find pride in their work ethic. I mean, I think about people that can go home at the end of the day and say, I'm really proud of what I've done and they're excited to go to work, to do it again, as opposed to people that struggle to keep a job, they tend to have higher levels of depression. I mean, it's, it's literally connected. We are not supposed to just be on vacation 24 7. Our work gives us purpose, it gives us drive, it motivates us. So I say instead of work, love, life, balance, let's talk about how work gives you balance and that, that, that you can find that pride in yourself because you woke up, you created something amazing to be proud of, you know, and other people get to enjoy, especially in the trades. I mean, that's. I can't. I can't tell you how many times I drive past job sites, and even I feel prided. I'm like, yeah, I helped with that. They were behind on deadlines. We got it done in time. That's awesome. It just. Love. Like, I was actually in Green Bay recently, and I remember as part of the Berkshire Apartments, and I just drove past it to get some gas and I saw it, I had to stop by.

[00:12:40.14] - Leah Kallas

I had to drive past it because it was like one of my first job sites that I put, put people on. And I was like, yeah, I want to see it. Like, look at, look at that. I was a part of that.

[00:12:49.15] - Dan Paulson

Well, I think a lot of people don't realize it's not just true for construction, it's true for manufacturing, it's true for medical and everything else. You build a reputation, and it's a relatively small community. When you are turning in these, you know, different industrial silos, I'll call them, because, for example, you know, you work across the state of Wisconsin, Rich, you're in New Jersey. You know, you have the same things out there. Everyone gets to know the people working in that industry. And if they know that you're going to be late, if they know that you're going to be, you know, not doing a good job, or you do a job on your time, and it affects everybody else in the workplace because that's the other thing. Construction is a team effort. It takes everyone from the project manager all the way down to the guy cleaning up behind everyone else to make sure that those jobs can get done on time and done on budget. And if you're not doing your pulling your weight, your word gets out pretty quickly. And that also leads to you spending a lot of time on the bench where you're not making any money.

[00:13:57.04] - Leah Kallas

Yeah, I entirely agree.

[00:14:01.28] - Dan Paulson

So beyond, beyond what you were talking about, you know, what else should, should. Well, let's, let's start with the employer or the employee. We would talk about the employee. So what Else should the employee really do to make sure that they're going to be a, a good fit or they're going to be on that A list so that they're always working and they're always making money?

[00:14:25.05] - Leah Kallas

I mean, I mentioned the, the punctuality thing. I think that's huge. Foreman's and superintendents, that's their biggest pet peeve, being on time. I think you just have to be on time and that, that's that 10 to 15 minutes early, show up with your tools and your proper ppe. If you don't show up with the equipment you need to do your job, why did you even come? You imagine a DJ showing up to do a live performance and not having any of its equipment?

[00:14:55.12] - Dan Paulson

Yep.

[00:14:57.03] - Leah Kallas

What are we going to be dancing to? Nothing. Air.

[00:15:00.18] - Dan Paulson

So why don't they show up with their proper stuff? Are they just assuming that the owner is going to provide it for them or going to have sitting there waiting for them?

[00:15:09.02] - Leah Kallas

I don't know what it is, honestly, because. And with what we do, we confirm everything, we verbally talk to them. Hey, this is what you need, a long list. Do you have this? Do you have that? Okay, some things we can provide, right? Okay, we can provide your boots, but we can get you a hard hat. Right. So we need to know those things. We have those conversations. Then we say, now we're going to send you a really long text message talking about everything we just said and then a second text with the address and we expect you to be there. And then they show up. I've had, I've had them show up in shorts and tennis shoes and I'm like, what job site can you walk onto in that? I, I don't know. So you have to have all that on.

[00:15:56.15] - Dan Paulson

Seems to me the construction worker on the Village People, he was wearing shorts. So that might pass.

[00:16:02.15] - Leah Kallas

Yeah, maybe that's what it was, I don't know. But it's like if you don't show up proper for your job, go home, you know. And I have people like, oh, you know, my boots are so, you know, this is part of the uniform. You know, a doctor, you know, has his scrubs in his white coat, right. A D.O. police officer has his uniform. You don't, you don't see a police officer in, you know, joggers or pants below their waist and some ripped up shirt, do you? No, because that's not their uniform for their job. What you wear on your own time is one thing, but when you are at a job, you need to dress the Part and I'm like, I don't know how many times I have to even say, like, have your pants pulled above your waist.

[00:16:46.02] - Dan Paulson

That would be nice because nobody wants to see all that stuff.

[00:16:49.24] - Leah Kallas

Joggers aren't work pants. Blue jeans or like some serious, you know, thick, like, you know, Carhartt pants. Those are work pants. Your, your joggers, your, your studded, ripped up jeans that have all these crazy patches that you think are really fun that are so tight then they're lifted and barely lifted above your waist. Those are not work pants. They're not. Those are your, you're not working pants. So if you show up in those, I'm going to send you home with reason, because we talked about what actual work pants is, you know, so that's, those are part of the things you need in order to be successful the trades. Look the part. Be, you know, be ready to go to work in your proper uniform, have your tools, have your ppe, show up on time and then be ready to work. Stay off your phone. It's a hazard. I once had a guy actually fall off a scaffolding because he was texting.

[00:17:46.24] - Dan Paulson

Oh God. Yeah.

[00:17:49.01] - Richard Veltre

There comes a point where, you know, you as the worker have to be serious. So I had, outside of the trades, I mean, I used to do some work for an electrician and he said it was really weird. All the guys would come in at 7 o', clock, but they would never get to the first job site till I like 8 o'clock.

[00:18:06.15] - Richard Veltre

He was trying to figure out why aren't the guys getting to the, you know, we had our meeting at 7 o'clock.

[00:18:11.23] - Richard Veltre

Everybody was given their assignments or at least the start of it. And all of a sudden the trucks would leave and no one would show up at the job site till almost an hour later. So he finally decided and figured out that all the trucks were leaving after their briefing, right? And they would all go to the 7 11, get coffee and breakfast and you know, on the, on the nickel with the company truck, they, you know, you would. So he sent somebody down, there was sitting at the 7:11 and all of a sudden here comes all the trucks and they're all coming in to get their breakfast. So, you know, knowing that is what the owner did for his own company. What would you do in the trades? Like what would you suggest that the employers do in the trades to show people that, hey, guess what, there's a consequence?

[00:18:54.18] - Leah Kallas

I mean, that's what the benches. I mean that's literally what it is. That's. That Stay off the bench thing. That's what we're talking about. Like how to actually stay off the bench. You have to yourself accountable. I mean, that's part of it too. Are, are you able to hold yourself accountable when, when an employer is telling you, hey, this is why you keep ending up on the bench. Don't be like, I don't do that. I never do that. Take accountability. Because people aren't just making this stuff up, you know, it doesn't define you. You can fix it. You can fix anything, right? It doesn't. Well, until almost anything. Yeah, you mentioned it. You, you tapped into it about the everybody talks about even more in the trades. Gossip is insane. You can get blacklisted real quick. We don't make HR phone calls for reference checks. We avoid HR reference checks. We do off the record. What really happened. Tell me the truth.

[00:19:52.29] - Dan Paulson

Yep.

[00:19:53.17] - Leah Kallas

What am I getting into if I hire this employee?

[00:19:55.17] - Dan Paulson

Reference checks just by mentioning the name. Sometimes the look on that foreman's face will tell you more than you need to know.

[00:20:04.14] - Leah Kallas

Sometimes we'll try to do a proper reference check and you'll just get an email back and it will be N O capital letters, 10 explanation marks. And you just know that's a hard pass. And they're not going to say it on paper. So you call them. You go, okay, tell me what happened. I need to know that no was defined. So if you think like, oh, just get, you know, I'll go to another one. And I mean that even, especially too. Even in the staffing world. I know that happens like you. And they do. They'll try to go through a different staffing company and you just like, yeah, I see your, your processing. You're not taking anything you've done and holding yourself accountable. That's what it is. At the end of the day, if you think you can just jump from ship to ship to ship chasing that dollar, you're going to be the hair. And eventually you're going to find it almost impossible to work for a credible employer. I mean, we all know in this industry it can just as much with the employees, the employer, the rob from Peter to get the Paul thing.

[00:21:14.05] - Leah Kallas

So if you put yourself in position where you can't even work for a reputable contractor because you dirtied your name everywhere, good luck with that. Because now you're chasing not only the dollar, but you're chasing to actually get paid from that contractor. That's rough.

[00:21:31.21] - Dan Paulson

Now, here's another question kind of related to the employer side again, Rich asked you about what else can you do? And you said it's pretty much the bench is kind of the penalty for not doing your job. But here's another issue I've seen and maybe this is starting to change now. I have seen time and time again where either a business owner, a foreman or supervisor will allow stuff to slide because they need that warm body there to do something. And you know, it's like I just remember talking to a business owner once and he's like, well, if I, you know, one guy wanted to go to his kid's birthday party, it's two o' clock in the afternoon on a Wednesday. That's usually when people are swinging hammers and building stuff. It's not the ideal time for you to be pulling away. And he's like, well, if I don't let them do that, then no employees want to work for me and I will be out. I won't have any opportunity on jobs because I won't have anybody to work. What do you say to an owner like that? Because I think in the past, from what I've seen, that's also part of the problem where the owners maybe don't hold that person accountable.

[00:22:38.15] - Dan Paulson

Now behind the scenes or after the fact, they might complain about what they do, but they're not doing their part on the accountability side as well. Are you seeing that or have you seen that change?

[00:22:51.15] - Leah Kallas

So yeah, sometimes you're desperate, but that person won't last long. Is my experience like you're desperate. But then I have these conversations in my office all the time. I'm like, what's the point then though? Actually at the end of the day, like why? So we can get maybe one day out of them and that's a maybe if it's good work ethic, you know, you're not. I'm actually having a recent issue with that, actually with one of my clients with their job sites. There's a PM that brought back somebody into their workforce directly and they had issues with them before and those issues are happening again. And I just recently placed somebody on their job site specifically for laboring not to learn to be an apprentice. Okay. They really just need that labor. They need someone to sweep and clean because in that job site particular it is tight knit. Subcontractors are going to clean up after themselves. That general contractor is going to do zero cleaning and you will be fined if you don't clean up after yourself. It's a very tight, tight contract. So they need this cleaning labor like they need it. And they've got this one employee they brought back that has caused issues in the past.

[00:24:15.27] - Leah Kallas

And he's already in the ear of that laborer, like this is all you want to do this. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Putting thoughts in his head. Already gotten to the ear of a couple of other ones were to the point that caused altercations with those employees. So it's losing them time, energy and money and now possibly employees to do what they need them to do because they, they got a renegade of an employee on their hands. What is the likelihood of that employee sticking around?

[00:24:43.14] - Dan Paulson

Exactly.

[00:24:44.27] - Leah Kallas

Like not if employee gets that opportunity. You should see that and seize it because otherwise you are just going to end up back on that bench. I mean, that's. It will always go back to. You will end up a bench warmer. And every time you do that, you know, if you, if you can't do it because it's not in your heart, do it for the money. Okay.

[00:25:10.01] - Dan Paulson

I mean, greed is good, right?

[00:25:12.17] - Leah Kallas

It pays your bills, you need it.

[00:25:15.04] - Dan Paulson

Yeah.

[00:25:15.19] - Leah Kallas

Why are you chasing a bench when you should be chasing to be able to pay your bills a little bit? You know, just pay your bills, stop putting yourself on that bench situation. And that's those behaviors, contractors being desperate. I mean, I believe that's why companies like ours exist.

[00:25:32.01] - Dan Paulson

Right.

[00:25:33.14] - Leah Kallas

We solve those problems. We can help you weed out things real quick, real fast. Instead of using that one employee and you're desperate, call someone like us.

[00:25:44.10] - Dan Paulson

Yeah, no, that's a good point because yeah, I think, I think the business owners, they kind of, you know, by doing what they're. When they're not reinforcing good behaviors, good habits, they end up where they upset the good workers they have. And those good workers now come to you because they want to be placed somewhere where they're not going to have to deal with the bs which is kind of funny.

[00:26:07.03] - Leah Kallas

Oh, it's funny that you touched on that. That's like legitimately a thing. There is, there is situations where people lose good employees and they say the only reason they're not there is because of that particular bad egg, that they're sick of carrying the weight of the, of, of that employee. They're not getting properly reprimanded and they're causing issues on their job site. I mean, if they want to maximize you, you do put them on the bench. I mean, that's the answer. I mean, because you. If the employee is not moldable, they're not going to be able to take constructive criticism so that they can grow as an individual. I mean, I think that's an Important characteristic everybody should have, even employers. Everybody should be able to, willing to grow. But if you can't take any constructive criticism and you fall apart, then that's on you. You need to be on the bench because maybe that hurt and that paycheck will make you go, hey, what do I need to do to get off of it? I got bills to pay. Well, look at the people who aren't sitting on the bench all year round. What are they doing?

[00:27:08.04] - Leah Kallas

They have good attitudes, they're team players, they're grinding hard. They're providing a work safe environment by having all the right tools. PPE they're, they're not on their phones, they're paying attention to their surroundings, not putting their fellow co workers in danger. Because let's, let's be real. Construction is dangerous.

[00:27:24.11] - Dan Paulson

It's very dangerous. Yeah.

[00:27:25.16] - Leah Kallas

People die every year from it. So if you want to be a reckless employee, I mean you literally are endangering other people's lives and that's not okay. More than a dollar, that's just not okay.

[00:27:36.12] - Dan Paulson

Right.

[00:27:36.23] - Leah Kallas

So you should be on the bench if you're going to have those types of attitudes and behaviors, you know, So I mean, if you really want to maximize yourself, just pay attention to what you're doing, what you're bringing. I'm kind of blinking, but maybe you can help me. What is that quote of that one? Was it Reagan? Was it the President? No, jfk, wasn't it? Ask that what your country can do for you. But ask what you can do for your country.

[00:28:02.27] - Dan Paulson

Yep, just switch that to employer. Right?

[00:28:06.01] - Leah Kallas

Same, same. Yep, same, same. I, I mean that is what it is. What can you bring to the table? Don't tell me about it, show me about it. Because the moment you can show somebody what you can do as opposed to tell them you're going to shut their mouth and you're going to get an applause and then you're probably going to increase in pay because now you're going to be become indispensable. Something that they really value and need because you're growing the team and the company and getting things done and accomplished.

[00:28:36.28] - Dan Paulson

So I think to summarize this from an employee side, be prepared to work, show up on time and on time is 15 minutes early, ready to go. Care about your job, care about your co workers, care about safety. And on the employer side, it's almost the same thing in reverse.

[00:28:53.17] - Leah Kallas

Yeah.

[00:28:53.29] - Dan Paulson

Care about your employees, treat your employees well, hold people accountable, make sure the job is done right. Don't just fill a position because that's what I tend to see is somebody can fog a mirror. Great. We'll plug them into that spot because we got a timeline to meet a deadline and we've got costs to adhere to.

[00:29:11.22] - Leah Kallas

Yeah, no, it's funny that you say it that way. That's exactly. That's even when I'm looking at employees, you know, it's an employee employer relationship.

[00:29:20.23] - Dan Paulson

Yeah.

[00:29:21.06] - Leah Kallas

So don't just hire people to hire people. Make sure that they mutually want to be there and then give them back exactly what they're given to you. So, you know, set up the expectations you have for them, but make sure that you have those same expectations to give to them. Otherwise why are they working for you?

[00:29:36.13] - Dan Paulson

Yep, exactly.

[00:29:37.16] - Leah Kallas

You know, I mean that, that would, you know, that does definitely sum it up. Sure.

[00:29:43.19] - Dan Paulson

Rich, do you got any questions?

[00:29:45.28] - Richard Veltre

I'm good.

[00:29:47.04] - Dan Paulson

You're good? You're good? Just hanging out there, Leah. So you work for a company called.

[00:29:53.23] - Leah Kallas

Great Lake Skill Trades.

[00:29:55.21] - Dan Paulson

Why don't you tell us a little bit more about Great Lakes skilled trades? Because I believe you can help construction companies find the right people, keep the right people. And nice part is have the people when they're needed and have them work somewhere else when they're not. So tell us a little bit more about that.

[00:30:11.19] - Leah Kallas

So we're a little unique. There's a lot of other companies out there that are kind of like us, but we're a little bit different. We only do construction. So we're very, very focused on what the construction industry needs. So we're also, because of that, we're make. We are very involved with organizations like Associate Builders Contractors, the Mariners group, which is a restoration contractor group where you start lunch and learns and learn what the culture of and the needs of the industry is needed. Right. When we are recruiting and hiring people, it is based on trades. You know, we ask pre screen questions to make sure that they pre qualify even for the interview. Because there are certain things in the construction industry you're going to need like a valid driver's license, a reliable vehicle. No. Well, I could use a bus line. No, you can't, because I might need you in the middle of the day to go to a different job site. So bus line doesn't work. You need to have a car and you need to have a valid driver's license. These things are important. And then because construction is dangerous, we make sure that.

[00:31:14.01] - Leah Kallas

The other question that we're going to pre qualify for is do you have experience or at least a trade school program. We're not going to Just put people on those job sites without that pre knowledge because that can be very, very dangerous otherwise if they don't get some background formal education, then after that we drop down based on their trades. So we do actual interviews based on their specific trade, whether it's carpentry or it's plumbing or H vac. All of those positions are going to do a drop down and we have even trick questions for like trim carpenters, like what angle DNS done right. We want to see photos of your work. So we're going to very, very much so dig in deep in vet and we will do background checks as well with other employers. If you work with them, most likely we know them because they're probably our clients. So we're going to call them and find out how did you do? Before we decide to even hire you and bring you on board, just know.

[00:32:07.08] - Dan Paulson

That there's no escape.

[00:32:09.22] - Leah Kallas

There's no escape. When we hire you on, you're being hired on full time. We people will be like, oh, I don't want to work with a temp agency. I'm like, me either. They'll be like, temps suck. I'm like, yes they do. Temps suck. I like temps. They might be temp to you, but they're full time to us. So we work with enough contractors that we can keep our employees working full time year round. We offer them benefits, pto and then we will require all of our employees to get OSHA 10 certified within the first 90 days. We're going to do toolbox talks, JH walks, whatever we need to do to make sure that we are reinstalling and reinforcing that safety culture. Because as I mentioned, construction is dangerous.

[00:32:47.19] - Dan Paulson

Yeah.

[00:32:48.04] - Leah Kallas

So that's where we come in. Trying to put, you know, dot all our I's, cross all our T's and staff with the highest level of integrity as we can in the industry. People ask, if they come to us, they're like, I need 10 picker packers. I'll be like, great, call QPS, call Seek, call Aerotech.

[00:33:07.12] - Dan Paulson

Maybe don't use other names. Maybe don't, sorry.

[00:33:10.23] - Leah Kallas

There are other agencies that do that. We wouldn't do it. We would not do any sort of staffing in the manufacturing like picker packers, you know, no forklift drivers. We're not going to do it. We're not going to do hr, office, administration workers. We only do construction. The reason we do it that way is because we really want to make sure that we're well informed, well educated before placing any of our employees on A job site.

[00:33:33.01] - Dan Paulson

Excellent.

[00:33:33.17] - Leah Kallas

So I think that's. That kind of sums us up. We're more of a construction staffing partner but we employ our employees full time now. Employees contractors can eventually hire our employees on if they want to. We become a third wheel or we do actually do some high scale direct hire placement as well.

[00:33:50.20] - Dan Paulson

Got it. So how can people get a hold of you if they, if they're either interested becoming an employee of yours or if a contractor is looking for employees, how can they best reach out?

[00:34:02.08] - Leah Kallas

I mean I would say you can either email me at Leah at Great Lakes skilled trades.com I know it's a long name but that is our name, Great Lake Skilled Trades. So just put that Leah L E A H at Great Lake skilled trades.com you can find us that way. Otherwise we do have a LinkedIn, a Facebook, you know, a website as well that you can go through those portals.

[00:34:26.13] - Dan Paulson

Good deal. Good deal. Well, we will definitely have that in the transcription so people can find it. Leah, thanks for showing up today. Really appreciate it. And by the way business owners, whether you are in construction or whether you're manufacturing or whether you're in healthcare or any other ones, same rules apply. So take what we listen to, apply it to your own industry and you will still get better results and you might be getting right now with with what's going on. So we will have you on again in the future.

[00:34:57.21] - Leah Kallas

Sounds good. Thank you Dan.

[00:34:59.11] - Dan Paulson

You bet. How do they get a hold of you?

[00:35:01.16] - Richard Veltre

Best way is by email. Rich@xcxo.net and you can get a.

[00:35:05.11] - Dan Paulson

Hold of me at dan@xcxo.net and we will see you all later. Take it away Bob.

[00:35:10.02] - Bob

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