#21: How Vegan Shoes Can Be Made Sustainably - Paula Pérez from Nae Vegan Shoes

Dennis: Hello, and welcome to the Impactful Ninja Show. I'm your host, Dennis Kamprad. And today, we're joined by Paula Pérez from Nae Vegan Shoes. Paula, welcome.

Paula: Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's so nice to be here, Dennis. Really.

Dennis: My my pleasure as well. I'm super curious to to learn more about Nae Vegan Shoes. Can you give us a brief overview? What what are you doing with Nae Vegan Shoes?

Paula: Yes. So Nae Vegan Shoes, was born in fact in 2008. So we have like almost 17 years old and it has been like a challenge for us. But I would say that in the beginning, the main reason that we created or that I have created Knight was because I really wanted to have a business of my own, you know? But I thought, okay, but I don't want any kind of business, you know? It has to be some mission that aligns with my values or with what I think. And I have been vegan for quite a long time. And I thought that also because I didn't have shoes at the time because I didn't want to use leather. So I thought that as Portugal have a great and good industry of shoes, I thought it would be a good business to have like vegan shoes, you know. So, yeah, it was like a crazy idea at the beginning because nobody talked about vegan shoes or sustainable fashion, you know? And yes, so we started the project talking with the factories to see how it looked like, what they thought about it.

Paula: And it was quite challenging in the beginning because people, they didn't understand the concept, right, because they were kind of used to use leather, animal leather. So for the factories to think about working with different materials, it was something very weird for them. And I think this is one of our main challenges in the beginning. Mhmm. Yeah. But, yeah. But then we started tell me something.

Dennis: No. I just wanted to say like, well, so much so much information already to kind of dive deeper a little bit. The first thing that's maybe also for audience to notice, like, when I'm pronouncing, like, ne vegan, you say nay, Like, the Portuguese version. And then, like, for the for the all of you, it's, basically, you're producing vegan shoes. And it came from the personal challenges. Like, one, you wanted to have, like, a sustainable a good business for yourself. And you also had the challenge of finding the right shoes for yourself as a vegan.

Dennis: Before we dive deep into the process and into how you get it started, let's give us let's rewind the slide. But what did you do before you started Nae Vegan Shoes?

Paula: Okay. So I worked, I have a degree in mathematics and information management. So I worked as a director in the in the telecom industry in Portugal. I worked in Information Management, you know, analytics, advanced analytics and data. Usually I worked for that like the last 18 years with data. But, I really in 2008, I thought that, okay, so I think I really need something different for my for my life. And, you know, like I wanted to have also to make something different to have a different impact, you know, because I I didn't see myself, like, working in the industry in telecom industry forever, you know. It's it was like, okay.

Paula: So I need to do something different. And, of course, I need to earn money because everybody needs money, right? So I thought that maybe that would be a good solution. And it was. It was. But I always have worked in data and analytics and reporting and everything like that.

Dennis: Sounds like a super structured work environment, especially with your background in mathematics. Might be super logical thinking and structured thinking. Is it also what kind of led you along the path to start in a vegan shoes? Because you you mentioned before in that your head in your mind you want to do something sustainable and about the shoes. And was that some some logical conclusion? Okay. Let's put it all together. Let's see what kind of business model we can create out of it and go ahead, or was that more like coming from your feeling?

Paula: It was kind of coming from my feeling because it was something more emotional also. I think that it happens a lot, right? It was not something that, okay, so let's do a detailed business plan. And it was not like that. It was more like, okay, so let's see how it works, you know, because I'm not the only crazy in the world that need vegan shoes, I thought. Right? So I think that there are people that also have the same options that I do. So let's see how it works. And we started very slow. Okay? We didn't start, like, with a big investment or we started very slow with a small collection, you know, just like, I think it was like 5 models, you know.

Paula: And we started slowly to see what happened because I didn't quit my job at the beginning. Of course, I continue working and I worked at night at the end of the day and weekends and it was very intense for some some years. But, yes, it was I think it was very emotional.

Dennis: How was that transition for you? Like, when when was the first concrete starting point for you? So you said you worked still at your job, and you kept that doing for, like, a few years in parallel. I know that feeling as well. Same what I did in the beginning. But what was the concrete starting point for you that you said, like, okay. Let's create the first shoes and how did that go in the beginning?

Paula: Okay. So the shoes, it's like the idea. Right? But I wasn't a designer. Right? So I thought, okay. So I need someone to design and develop the shoes. Right? So I contacted the designer that I knew from the North of Portugal. And I told her, look, I just want to start with 5 different models, very basic, you know, blank, you know, like the kind of basic basic. And, and yes, and it was kind of that first step when we started to design those shoes.

Paula: And then we went to the factory and say, okay, so we need these shoes. Okay. Then started the questions, right? So the materials and what and everything that that means about like developing pair of shoes. But I think like it was a challenge to think, okay, so I'm not a designer because usually the people that create fashion, because shoes is fashion, right? It's retail fashion industry. So I think that at the beginning I thought, okay, so I'm not a designer. How am I going to do this? Right? So, of course, because of my background and also from Alex, my husband that is with me in the project, we are like very analytical and rational and practical, you know, people. So we are not like artists. But I think that is interesting because, you know, we are very focused in making that company works, you know.

Paula: But the other part of the design and everything, I knew that, okay, so I can outsource this. You know, there are a lot of people that design shoes. So we work with the designer. And yes, I think everything is possible, you know, when you create a company. It's just preparing it well and everything goes as well.

Dennis: Did you have to convince the factory, the fabrics, to to create shoes that are not made out of leather? Or did you already find, like, one specific one that way you could share the kind of materials you wanted to use?

Paula: I had the materials because I did some research about the vegan materials that I could use. Of course, it was very different from now because we have now we have a lot more of options. But at the time, we didn't have so many. But I already studied exactly the materials that we were going to start with. And the materials are very different from animal leather. So that was when the factory started like, okay, what is this? Why? You know, because even the process of building, you know, producing your shoes in the factory, it's different, you know, the way that you stitch, the way that you make all the forms and everything, it's different because the material reacts in a different way. So they had kind of to learn also and adapt the processes, you know. But it worked very well because people, I think they started also to understand the concept, you know.

Paula: And of course, as we were like growing and also May was growing and gaining new customers, and of course, they thought, okay, so there is a business here. Let's do it, right? So, yeah, it was Great second

Dennis: one is to mention the growth as well. Like, before you had the growth, how did it feel for you having your first, like, own vegan shoe in your own hands and then making the first sale?

Paula: It was very good. You know, it felt very good for me. It was and Germany was and still is our main market. And we have some contacts from shops in Germany. We started first with the B2B then with the B2C. I think more like in terms of weight in revenue, it was more like the B2B buying from us because the B2C, I mean, the final consumer was starting, but it worked also. Right? But I felt amazing seeing that, okay, so this works, you know, it's not because I have this crazy idea of creating shoes and I thought maybe this is like a crazy idea, you know, but it wasn't. So that is really good and nice to know that there are a lot of people that wants to, you know, to be your customers.

Paula: So I felt amazing.

Dennis: And we see a lot more a lot more consumer being aware of the impact that's, well, the consumption and also any kind of fashion or shoes have, well, basically, on the earth and the environment. And a lot more focus on towards more sustainable and more ethical products just like like the shoes that you're producing. Now from walk us along the journey now from the first designs, like the all black shows, to the first sales going to Germany, b to b, b to c. How how did that develop along the journey? And when did you decide to to quit your job and work full time on it?

Paula: As I said, b to b was always very strong for us. You know, we had other shops that wanted to buy from us and that worked very well. And then also, of course, we have an online platform. We were always very strong in the e commerce, you know, in the e commerce platform and the online as a channel, as a sales channel. And I think that maybe in 2015, it was like 50% B2C, B2B, you know, And we started to sell all over the world. So not only Germany, but United States and Portugal, also Italy, Spain. I mean, we started to sell in a lot of countries. And then I saw that the market was growing.

Paula: People were more, you know, and also the company was growing. So in 2017, also because of course I have 2 daughters and we have our personal life and I thought, okay, so I'm not going to like to quit my job like that. You know, I have to make sure that everything is working and I need to feel like secure, you know, in this decision that I'm making. But in 2017, I thought, okay, so that's it. I'm going to quit my job because I think this is working. And I think that I want to do this the rest of my life. You know, it's like, so it was a huge decision. Alex, my husband, was already working in the company, but I take I took a little bit longer to quit my job.

Paula: But it felt really good to understand that, okay, so we can believe from 9, you know, it's not so, it was not like, okay, so I'm going to start a startup, you know, and everything works perfectly. And the next year, it wasn't like that. It was a slow process. But, yeah, in 2017 in December, I quit my job and I started to to dedicate full time to to NAB.

Dennis: Nice. It was like six and a half years ago or something like this?

Paula: Yes.

Dennis: How did it develop for you? Like, the journey now from Nae, since you were able to focus full time on it and you mentioned also your husband, Alex, working on it. How did it develop from from that point in time until we are not where we are now?

Paula: Okay. So it has been a lot of challenges, you know, because with the pandemics, everything changed, and the business changed a lot. As I told you, we sell for b to b and b to c, but then we with the pandemics, the shops started to close. So we will increase the b to c, and the b to b decreased a lot for us this past year. So I think that now things are starting to get more normal, but also with the Ukrainian war, things are not so easy. So I think that this last year since the pandemic, things are a little bit roller coaster. You know, we have some great years, but then, like, 2022 was very good for us in terms of revenue, but then it started to decrease with the Ukrainian war. So, I mean, it's a challenge, you know? So we have to be, like, every day working in this project and making that it works.

Paula: Right? To see, okay, so if it doesn't work like this, okay, so what is the best way to do this? Let's, like, start a new ecommerce platform that is more flexible and, you know, to explore other channels, other sales channels. So we are always Yeah. So it's not like, okay. So I have created a company and I'm here sitting and No. No. No. No. Never like this.

Paula: No. It doesn't work for me. No. No. I don't know. Maybe he maybe someone has that, that kind of experience, but, I don't. Me and Alex, we are everyday working, worried about the company and, you know, it's Yeah. It's it's not so easy, you know, to have a company.

Paula: It's a big responsibility.

Dennis: That probably just works if you put, like, an external operator into managing all the business decisions, and you just give strategic input from time to time. But then also, who wants to do that? Right? Yeah. So you mentioned a few challenges already. Like you mentioned, like, a shift, like, with the pandemic more or less from B2B more to B2C. You also mentioned there was some change in sales with the Ukrainian world, which is kind of interesting to see. I would not have expected any change happening there. Let's go for the pandemic first. What was the biggest challenge there? Did you also have some supply chain issues there? Or was it just like a general shift that b to b wasn't selling as much because the stores didn't open that much?

Paula: Yes. So it started with, like, the b to b. They had to close, of course, because of the pandemic. So we started to see that, okay, so we are not selling to the stores right now, you know, so it was a huge decline. And then the 1st months of the pandemic, I have to say, I was very scared about what is going to happen with Nai because people were also not buying because people were at home. They don't need shoes. You know, it's like, okay, so what's going to happen? But then yeah. But then things started to change a little bit and people started to buy.

Paula: And then it was like a huge boom in 2021. I think that people like, okay, so I need shoes. And everybody start started buying shoes. It was crazy. Like 2021 and 2022 were like the 2 years that we sold like the most. It was crazy. And then when the Ukrainian war started, we just felt like, okay, maybe also in Germany, we had an impact of the sales. It decreased a lot because because I think that German people is also more concerned about their future, you know, and I don't know.

Paula: We we saw, like, something changed. I I I don't know exactly what it is, but I think it's because of the war. People are more insecure about their lives and everything. And we saw that. Okay. So 2023, it's 2023 was more challenging in terms of sales for us. And I think for business in general. Although I think that as we are a sustainable brand and vegan, I think that we have a target.

Paula: Right? And people, you know, they know us and they are our customers. So we continue, of course, to to sell well. But we saw that we have a lot of changes here also in 2020. Of course, it was huge in revenue, but it was also huge in costs because of the cost of energy and everything, and also the shipping and all the impact that we have in 2022. I mean, it's like crazy years, you know, it's not like, okay, so we are like in a balance. It's not like this. Every year, it's something different, you know. I think that businesses today are always like, oh my god, this it's not stable.

Paula: You know? I feel this in my I don't know. But I think that's when I talk with other business owners, they have like the same experience. You know, it's not so easy. Every year we have a surprise. You know? It's crazy.

Dennis: It's crazy to know when you look at the website of any kind of business, like, anything you see external, the website looks the same like last year. In the in the stores, you see similar products. But what happens in the background is just so different from one one year to the other depending on, like, all the kind of challenges being thrown in your way. You Yeah. You also mentioned, like, your focus on having vegan shoes but also making them sustainable. Like, selecting vegan products is 1 because you're well, it's a yes no decision. What do you make, or how do you ensure that your products are the most sustainable they can be?

Paula: This is a huge challenge. I think it's the biggest challenge that we have because vegan is not sustainable per itself. You know, it's like not it's not the same concept, right? I think that when we started the project, we had one purpose that was we want to be a vegan brand. So the shoes don't have anything from animal origin. Right? But of course, it was also a process for us, you know, because, okay, so how can we make the materials more sustainable, right? Because we want also to give different options to the customers, right? But then we saw that a lot of different materials started to emerge in the market like the pinatext and the apple skin. And also we have in Portugal the cork, you know, and the corn leather. I mean, there is now a lot, a lot of options. If you ask me if they are 100% sustainable, they are not.

Paula: They are not. We know that, but it's very difficult to have a perfect plant based pair of shoes, you know, without a little bit of polyester, even if it's recycled, you know, that is the truth. So, but what we do, we are always like seeking for more and more sustainable materials. This is something that is also a mission for us now, you know, but it's not so easy to have like materials with resistance to make a good pair of shoes, you know. And also they are made in Portugal and they are expensive and, you know, you have to give a good solution for the customer. So, I mean, it's not easy. It's a challenge to have good materials to be sustainable, made in Portugal. You know, it's a lot, you know? But I think that what we need to have in our mind is that this is a journey.

Paula: I think that the industry is also evolving, you know, because there is a lot of innovation now. And I think it's really important innovation to build more and more sustainable materials. And I think that industry is very aware of that, you know. And also because they are aware of that because the consumer people are asking for that. They want more sustainable products, right? So I think this is a journey and it's not easy. We are not perfect, but I think nobody is, you know, we are just seeking the best way to be more sustainable and do the things right. It's a journey. It's not something that's okay.

Paula: So today, I'm, like, 100% bulletproof. It's not like that, you know. So yeah. But I think it's it's a journey.

Dennis: And it's also nice that you that you connected to your mission. You mentioned you had your satellite as a vegan brand, and you incorporated more and more to become more and more sustainable. And that's also one of your mission to become a more sustainable brand. Give us an outlook into the future. How would you envision, Nae, coming in the next 5 to 10 years? What would you envision your brand to be?

Paula: I want that Nae to be more sustainable, still, you know, like working on this process. And this is a process, and I think it will never finish, you know, because there are so many aspects that we can improve. You know, we cannot say that, okay, so we just need to do this. No, there is a lot of things that we can do to make the brand more sustainable. There is one thing that I want to do for the next year that is recycle the shoes that the customers don't want anymore. And this is not so easy because there isn't a process to recycle shoes. It's not easy, you know, because you have to dissemble the shoes and then you just have to separate all the the parts and put it in the right place when it's recyclable because sometimes it isn't, you know. So recycle the shoes, it's something that we want to do in the next years, you know? And also, I think that we want to make shoes for children because we have a lot of parents that ask us to also to have vegan shoes for their kids.

Paula: And this is a project also that we want to work on. And I think that the main challenge is I need that Nae be more comfortable when we say that, okay, so Nae is sustainable. You know, I think that we still have a lot of work to do to achieve that. And I think that is our main goal for the next 5, 10 years.

Dennis: Beautiful. You know? No. I like the part, especially when you say that you want to take the shoes back and recycle them. I've seen, like, more and more brands do something like this. And, like, some have have, like, then even, like, more, like, lofty goals afterwards, like, starting with the recycling. And the next step is, okay. How can we make these products truly circular? Which then also shifts, like, okay. How do we need to design the shoes to make them in a different way that we can make them circular and just completely, like, close the loop? It should be super I'm I'm pretty sure that something like once you make the shoes more recyclable and take them back, that's probably something that you will work on next as well.

Dennis: Yes. But super tough to achieve as well.

Paula: Yes. Yeah. It's a challenge.

Dennis: No. But sweet. I love the sustainable part, especially, like, the shift in focus, like, combining, like, both vegan and sustainable. Now for for anyone listening to, to us right now, what would be the best way to get our hands on name, Vegan Shoes?

Paula: Okay. So we have an online website. Okay. So we sell all over the world. We work with several marketplaces with a lot of marketplaces, in fact, also a little bit all over the world. And then we have a physical store in Lisbon, 2 physical stores in Lisbon. And, yeah, I think that like in terms of main channels, it's like the online because we cannot be everywhere. And I don't think that ever we are going to be a brand with stores.

Paula: You know, we are not going to be a big brand. We are going to be a local brand. And, of course, we are going to sell online. And that is a good way for the customer to get our shoes. I think it's the best way. And also, we have the B2B, of course. We sell for other shops also in several countries. So but we still have a lot of work to do in this, you know, like commercial work that we need to develop in the next years.

Paula: Especially in the stores, I think. Because things changed a lot and we need to get a game and to sell in more and more stores.

Dennis: Nice. So we put the links into the show notes also. Nivegan dotcom, if I remember correctly, for the website. Dot com. Yes. And it's for we'll see if we can put a lot of links into the notes as well where people can find the the stores or the resellers.

Paula: Yes. Yes. Of course.

Dennis: Before we go to the next part and the reflections on on your personal life as well, was there anything that I forgot to ask you about, Nhi? Was there anything that you would like to share as well?

Paula: Well, I think that for the people there listening to us, one of my experiences in this project was I learned a lot, you know, especially in about the decisions that we make and the impact that they have in our lives and in others' lives, you know, and in the nature and other people's lives. And so I think that one of the main things was the learning that I have. I am always learning about things. And I think that I am more aware and more conscious about the decisions that I make, you know, The way that I eat or the way that I wear clothing, the way that I buy stuff. So I think that is one of the things that I think it's very, very important. It's to be more conscious about the decisions that we make. Like small decisions, sometimes they have a huge impact. And if everybody makes good decisions or better decisions because nobody's perfect, of course.

Paula: But, you know, if we are starting to implement like small good decisions, they will have a huge impact, you know. And I started to do this. And what I think it's that it would be very good. And I think that this is happening a little bit with also with social media. People are getting more aware of and they are having more information about everything. Right? So I think that people are making more good decisions when they buy, when they eat, or whatever, you know, when they travel. So I think self consciousness is the best way to, you know, to improve our lives and everybody's lives, you know, and the impact that we have.

Dennis: Nice. Sounds super similar to to my journey as well. When we do, like, all the research into, like, different brands and the different materials, like, basically, anything we're interested in to help people make a bigger positive impact. I'm always, like, super curious. It's like, oh, I didn't know about this or that. And there's, like, so many parts. It's like, when you think about what you know and what you don't know, it's super tough to think about what you don't know. And I think, like, for example, materials, like, I know this material is sustainable or not.

Dennis: That's something you can research. But sometimes you might not even know, like, what other materials exist and whether they're sustainable or not. So it's, like, a lot of a lot of awareness. It's what also happened to me, like, reading through all the articles from our amazing writers. I was like, oh, wow. And just just learning so much along your journey, which is awesome. Yeah. Now for the final question already.

Dennis: If you had one tip to share with our audience how we could become more impactful, what would your number one tip be?

Paula: I think it's a little bit of what I said before. It's to be more auto-conscious, you know? Like be more aware of the decisions that you make and the impact that they have. So I think that it's just like before you do something, you just think about the impact that you are doing, you know? And I think this is the best tip for everybody is, like, be more conscious about the things that and the decisions that you do. It's like I think it's the best tip that I can give today.

Dennis: Awesome. No. Thanks. Thanks so much, Paula. Thanks so much for all the work you're doing with Nae as well.

Paula: You're welcome. Thank you very much for having me.

Dennis: My pleasure. And to everyone else, thanks so much for listening to us as well, and stay impactful