The Other Art Fair - Review and Art Business Tips

Hi everyone, my name is Taaye. I'm an artist based in Vancouver. Like many of you artists out there, I'm always looking for ways to explore different opportunities in showing and expanding my network beyond my current location. I've heard about the Other Art Fair through a friend, and I thought, before I throw in all the money, maybe I should actually travel down and check out the fair first. So last week, I went down to Los Angeles to check out the Other Art Fair by Saatchi. The Other Art Fair is a very reputable art fair with several locations throughout the world, including Sydney, London, Chicago, New York, and Dallas. I brought back with me some of the insights and logistics from interviewing artists and collectors there. Can't wait to share with you all. Hey, welcome back to my channel. 

So today, I have the honor to invite Taaye and Anna to the video talking about the other art fair. Can you introduce yourself a little bit, Anna? What do you do? Hi, my name is Anna Stump, and I am an artist, a former educator, and I live in the high desert outside of Joshua Tree in California. It's a rural place, very beautiful. I am still a painter. I'm still working as a studio artist, but I also am more of a social practice artist, so I have some involvement in some entrepreneurial projects, including we run a residency here, very small one, and I run a miniature golf course called Mojave Land, and I'm also on a political committee now, so that's sort of an interesting new twist that in the last year has really ramped up because I'm the chair of the committee now and dealing with city politics, so it's sort of fun and interesting. 

Hi, my name is Taaye. I am a watercolor artist based in Vancouver, Canada. I am ethically Chinese, yay, but I've been living in North America for about 17, 18 years already between Canada and the U.S. I've also lived in several other countries, so a lot of my artwork is about my experience moving around in my young 20s and my young 10s and talking about the feelings and emotions that relate to those kind of experiences. Specifically, I love using the motif of a bird called cockatoo because that's one of the birds that I deal with when I was in Hong Kong as a child. 

Actually, both Anna and Taaye had participated, visited the other art fair, so that's what brought us together today, talking about your experience, your individual personal experience, and together we can come to a conclusion, whether it is worth it to participate, to show your art at the other art fair. Maybe we can start with this particular fair in Los Angeles. What was the overall experience? It was somewhere in Santa Monica. It was in the hangar, right? Yes, it was in the hangar. Yeah, that's great. That's a great space. You definitely have to drive there, but once you drive there, there was live music, there were food vendors outside of the venue. You know, you check your ticket, there was live music. It was very, very lively. There were about, I counted, 150 artists in the venue this time. There were a lot, a lot, a lot of people visiting, so I see a lot of artists being really busy talking to the other artists or like talking to potential customers. Everyone seems to be enjoying what they're doing, including the customers and the artists. I showed my art three times at the Saatchi Other Art Fair, and it alternates from downtown LA and Santa Monica, so I think every other time you'd have to check their schedule. The venue in downtown was what I did first, and it was in the fashion district. It's more of an industrial district. That parking is good, and I think that Saatchi takes care of that. They're making sure that the collector, the visitor, has a really good experience. Easy to park, lots of, you know, what you said, food, definitely bar, fun atmosphere. It's clean. It was, you know, it's really, it's well lit. I participated three different times, and I had three different experiences, so the first time was downtown, and I participated with a commercial collection of work that I do, which is paintings of florals, and I do it with a partner, and we had a very successful fair, and I was in a group. I was actually not in a great spot. I was upstairs, so people had to come to a second. They had to go up a flight of stairs, but there were, I was sort of in the middle, and there were two people on either side, and then three booths across from me. In that fair, all six of us sold, and it was sort of, wow, I don't know. I was like, this is great, you know. I think we sold probably $7,000 or $8,000 worth of artwork, and selling a pretty big painting for us, which was like a $3,800 painting, so that was extremely exciting, and we sold some smaller work, and in the other art fair, they take the work with them. You have a blank on your wall, and you sort of miss that little red dot, and so everybody was putting the little red dots on the side of their booth, like, oh, look, I sold seven paintings, you know, so it was very exciting, and I made a really, actually a really close friend who I'm still friends with today who was across the way from me, so that's the definite benefit of participating in the fair, so the second time I did the other art fair, and this started about five or six years ago. I was doing it about five or six years ago. We were in Santa Monica, and I showed a different body of work. I do also figurative work, and I showed nudes, and I actually did some parts. I did a demonstration. I hired a model, not nude, but, you know, a model to come, and so that I could paint well for people when they were there, and I sold almost nothing, so that was disappointing, and I thought, oh, well, it's too bad, but let's try it again, so then we did it one more time, and I think it was again in Santa Monica. Yes, it was in Santa Monica, and you would think that Santa Monica would be a better fair than downtown because the demographic of collectors on the westside of L.A. is higher. You know, it's wealthier. It's wealthier than the downtown area, and we did sell some work the third time we did it, and it was back to the original work that was florals, but we broke even, so there are three totally different experiences, you know, one doing well, one not doing well at all, and one breaking even, so, you know, I can't say. I don't know. I don't know if I would recommend it again. I personally am not going to do it again because I'm sort of starting. I'm basically transitioning out of art fairs. I think it is very physically difficult to do art fairs. You have to travel. You have to move your work in and out. You have to hang the work. You have to be there all day, cheerful. Talking to the people, be a salesperson. Yeah, and then, you know, packing everything up and getting it out, so I've realized that at a certain point, physically, I don't want to do it anymore, but I think it's definitely worth trying as a young artist, so yeah. Taaye, I have a question for you. You were actually seriously considering going to maybe next year, going to one of the art fairs to actually show your work there. That was your original intention when you first decided to visit them and just to see if it's worth it or, you know, how to show your art best, but after visiting both fairs, would you say that's something for you? Why or why not? It's really hard to say because, like what Anna was saying, there are three different experiences on the same person and it really depends on the year whether you can break even or even make a profit or not. 

So, Anna, you're local and, you know, like your cost is basically the booth plus, you know, your time, right? I'm not local to LA or Seattle. Like, those are the two sites that are closest to me, so my cost will even be higher because I have to come all the way from Vancouver, Canada to LA or Seattle. So I have to think about either, you know, taking the plane or taking my car and there's, you know, implications, cost implications behind those. You know, rent a hotel and stay there a couple days and, you know, at least four days during the fair and, you know, one day after and before. So LA, it's a bit cheaper in terms of renting a hotel because there's more availability. Seattle, from my last experience, was very, very expensive to rent an Airbnb. Adding everything into the equations, I'm guessing like, you know, either fair, I'll have to spend at least, you know, the booth is about $21.75 for the booth itself. And then let's say everything else was like $2,000-$3,000. So I'm guessing I'm spending at least $5,000 US dollars, like just for coming. I guess like I'll have to evaluate whether either experience could make me back that $5,000. Obviously, I can just say, okay, this $5,000, I'm just pretending that I'm throwing it out on the oceans and that's $5,000. I'm not a millionaire. That's a lot of money. If I'm feeling financially okay, I have something I can, you know, splurge a little bit that year and I do want to connect with the local community in either Seattle or LA. Sure, I'll go for it, you know. But I think I'm gonna think about it and then I'm gonna do it once my community here in Vancouver is a bit more solid. Then maybe perhaps I'll think about going down to Seattle or LA. I'm sure it's gonna be a fantastic experience. Some year you do can break even and some year you can even make a profit. I was interviewing this artist. His name is Alec Cumming and he was having the same point as Anna. It's not so much about one year. It's about consistently being there. This artist that I interviewed is actually from London, UK. So he had an even longer way than I do. So even he said, you know, some years are really good, some years are really bad, but it's about consistently showing up and just like letting people recognize your face, building connections that way and just getting people to know you and have a presence there. So you can actually build a presence in LA. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think for young artists just popping in and doing a random fair here and there is not necessarily the best goal. I mean, if that's what you can afford, you're gonna learn, but maybe the financial part of it won't pay off. But you will learn things. But if you can set your sights on either a fair, an open studio that happens once a year or twice a year and you say, okay, for the next five years, I am going to do this. And the first time you're not going to know anybody and people are going to go, huh. And you might maybe not get too many visitors or you may not sell anything. And then you do it the second time. And then people start to say, oh, I remember you. I remember, oh, they're consistent. And then, you know, it's about building consistency and doing a fair over and over. And I think that that's a really good thing that, you know, way to look at it. I only wish that, you know, I'm local in LA or Seattle. So the other fairs are super fine, will be more accessible to me. But unfortunately, because of my geographic constraint, it's extra expensive. Like if I were local in LA, yeah, sure, I'll come back to the other fair years after years. It's $2,000. But, you know, if you're higher accounting, you can probably factor in your tax deductions and stuff like that. But unfortunately, just for me as a newcomer, you know, it's just extra expensive. Like it's not $2,000, it's at least $5,000. So I just got to think about that. 

But do you think it is good to even like attend an art fair in front of your doorstep? Because that's like you're already there. Instead of paying a lot of money for the art fairs, you can just do a side event. You know, there are many side events happening, I'm pretty sure, like in every major art fair. There are a lot of artists studios doing like studio works. Why wouldn't you like spend that money and travel further away so that you access another market otherwise would be impossible for you to access? Wait, I have an opinion on that. Every community, whether it's small or medium or rural or cosmopolitan, deserves art. If there is no art fair or if there is no community where there's art showing, do it yourself. Be that community leader. And that's valuable. So for years and years I lived in San Diego. And San Diego is not a great art community. It's got universities that have art schools but it's sort of between LA and Tijuana and if San Diego and Tijuana could combine as an art destination, but because the border is so problematic it can't. It's tried and it can't. So I was sort of languishing in San Diego. And so I would go to LA and I would establish connections in LA. But that didn't mean that there wasn't very good reasons for me to try to build community in San Diego. And I did. And it did help my career. So I think, Thay, if you were to say, listen Vancouver, right? There's nothing happening. I'll start it. I'll get together with 10 friends who all have artist studios or in this group and then you start to build. And there's people who will support you. There's people who want art and there's young people, younger people than even you who are looking to you to be a leader. And so I think that that's really a noble thing to do. I recently moved into a new art studio in Vancouver. And it's a new building that was built. It was rented out from the Vancouver government to specifically this organization that rented out to artists and designers. So everything is new and everything is being built right now. We constantly have contractors on site fixing the door, fixing the elevator, etc. I'm trying to get to know everyone in the building right now. But in the near future, I'll build enough connections that eventually we can start our own little art fair within the building. Let's say, art and design fair within the building. Hopefully the organization is hearing this right now. Hopefully they like this idea and they're watching this video. If not, I'll send it to them. They don't need it. You don't need their approval. We are not in certain countries where getting a public event requires a certain legal permit, right? I heard it's a free country. We'll see about that. But would you spend the same amount of money and effort combined let's say starting your own mini open studio slash art design fair? Or would you rather spend that money going to a bigger brand like Saatchi, the other art fair instead? Because you would spend probably in the end similar amount of time and money because what you don't spend on money, you spend in time. Yes, it is your own, but you're also doing a service to other people which might appreciate and might not. What would you choose? I say for me, I'll put the money down and go to a Saatchi fair just because everything has already been done for me. I want to just focus on selling my art and making art. But I'm guessing once I get older, I have a better community, I have more connections then I'm more empowered to organize my own event. Yes, I know those are money that you could put in the time, but I feel like every time you organize an event, people recognize you as an organizer versus a participant and that's a big difference in terms of perceptions and reputations. I think that having those skills, and I think you do Taaye, to be able to organize and still be an artist. I'm still an artist. People want to see my work but they also know that I'm running things. And that's a powerful thing. I think that power and respect for a woman in the arts is an amazing thing. You're going to be more successful than selling your work and becoming that kind of artist that's making thousands of dollars. That's so rare. Getting that success is so rare. You can have success as an organizer. You can even have financial success as an organizer that can come back to you and you can still sell your work and I think that you'll have better results. But that's just me. 

But I also think that it's the right thing to do in terms of community and helping and being a good citizen. And not just thinking about, all I care about is selling my work. No, we need to give back as artists. Every business, like the other art fair, is a business. They're not there to help artists. They're there to make money. But we can't ask them to be altruistic to do everything for free and give back to the society. Maybe they do their own corporate responsibility program. Actually they do. Taaye mentioned that they actually do some kind of mentorship scholarship that they offer a handful of artists around the world to be at the fair for completely free. So they are doing some of that, but not everything, of course. It's a company made for profit. So just from the pure business side, do you think they are giving you good value from the artists you met or maybe Anna, from your personal experience, do you think they did everything in their own power to satisfy their promises to push their artists forward? I just looked up the website for Los Angeles specifically. 32 square feet booth is $2,100. That's the cheapest. You get two lights and you sell on site. They're going to take 15% of commission. If you make a sale within one month after the fair and that customer got to know you because of meeting you at the other art fair, they are still going to take that 15% of commission. So that's the money part. About the program that you were mentioning, Mo, actually I got to know about this because I was talking to one of the artists. Her name is Natalia Palakama. Hopefully I pronounced her name correctly because it's a Colombian last name. The program is called New Future and what you get is that you get a booth, the smallest size of booth, for free and you also get mentorship from the other fair directors on marketing and pricing. So you get to be there to show your work for free basically. After the event, you get to be a lifetime membership to the other fair global exhibitor community from their websites. So I guess you get to be still connected to the community online if you were in this New Future program. There is one thing though you mentioned from the website. They say they give you two lights and tiny how many square feet because I don't know square feet. I'm in the square meter world so for me square feet is a bit odd. I see from the pictures they are like tiny little booths and the number of lights is kind of weird because usually in a European art fair, all the lights are included. You can bring your own light. Usually it's not forbidden but they don't usually charge lights. What is that? Yeah, they do. They charge lights and you should get extra lights. You absolutely should and we did. You can get there and I think order them when you're there but if your booth is dark, people won't come in. 

One of the most important things when you're showing art you need good light and so you should pay their price. You can't bring your own lights. There's no electricity. They have to hang them because there's rules. There's union rules and everything. They want everything to look uniform so I understand that but yeah you have to pay for extra lights and so that adds cost. So yeah, really important. If you want more light, they charge more light. If you want I don't know, anything special like if you want your walls to be painted in a different color, they also charge that. I'd imagine so, yeah. Wow, so it's like Ryanair, kind of a low cost airline. You want to bring anything on board, you pay a ticket. You want any beverage or food, snacks, you pay. I have gone to many art fairs locally in Los Angeles. You know, different art fairs. I haven't gone to the ones that are super, super expensive but I've also been, there's an art fair that happens in San Diego once a year. We now have gone down to the Palm Springs art fair. I've participated in that. Like for example the Palm Springs art fair, sometimes it's not good. The quality of the art, they're letting in a lot of vanity booths so normally a regular art fair only allows galleries but if they don't fill their booths, they allow artists to come in and then you have a bunch of really schlocky art and that's not good but then there'll be times where the Palm Springs art fair is really good but no matter what the art fair, only a few of the booths do well. Only a few. The numbers are not good. It's like gambling at Las Vegas. You know, you're going to lose most of the time. So you just have to say, are the other reasons for going to the art fair, the experience, the connections you might make, seeing if you've never shown your work? Do people like it? What kind of person likes your work? I know the kind of people that buy my work and I'm not, you know, I'm going to if somebody who's 25 wearing really trendy clothes comes in my booth, I'm glad they're going to come but they're not going to buy my work. I know who's going to buy my work and I know how they're going to dress and I know what they're going to like. So that's really good information that you can get at that kind of fair. Yeah, going in thinking you're going to make a profit, it's hard. It's really hard. The chances are that's not going to happen. Yeah, and what Anna brought up is really true because from one of the artists that I interviewed, I interviewed him specifically because his entire world was gone. His entire world was gone. I was like, wow, you're doing very well. And I tried really hard to interview him and I was like, oh, is this your first time? He was like, no, I've been here many times. I was like, have you always done this work? He was like, of course not. And I was like, well, did you notice anything? He was like, like what Anna was saying, you know, one year will be very, very good. Another year will be like, oh, nothing. And then the next year will be like, oh, break even. And then the cycle keeps going on and going. And I asked him specifically, did you do anything different from the year that you did really well to the year that you didn't do so well? And he was like, I'm still the same me. I still bring in the same quality of work. You know, it's, it's kind of like what Anna was saying. It's Las Vegas, you know, it's gambling. So there's no factors. Seems like to me, there's no factors that you can say, if I do this, this, this, and this, I'll get my return for sure. One of the artists I interviewed mentioned that she did get a gallery representation and a show because she was in the Art of Affair several years ago. But I don't know how often that happens. I don't think galleries would actually go there to pick the artists. But I think it is a good thing in your curriculum because you are showing that you're willing to go out there, promote your work and pay for the booth. That is to say you're willing to play this game, gambling or not. And that shows that you've got some balls. You've got some, you know, keenness and that's an attitude rather than, I think, anything else. Yeah. And you're going to do social media. You're going to put videos up. You're going to be saying, Hey, I'm at the other art fair. And then, you know, and that lives on your grid or, you know, important. It sounds nice to have something on your resume that's like, I exhibited in LA and New York, you know, like, so it's more like a vanity frame kind of thing. It is. I mean, hello, you pay for it. You pay for your chance to show and that's it. It is like a vanity. I mean, it is. 

So one of the artists, Alec, I was asking him, what's the difference between a more traditional art fair versus like the other art fair? More traditional art fair is gallery represented, right? Artists are represented by galleries versus the other fair, which I thought was really nice. He said they kind of work in harmony, these two types of art fair. They touch on different types of people, different types of art collector. The traditional art fair, because it's gallery, you know, they have their established clientele. So you are only able to tap into that if you are, you know, in connections with the gallery, right? Versus the other art fair like, you know, Superfine, any self-represented festival, art event like this. Most of the people that come are new art collectors, like first-time collectors. So it's kind of like a stepping stone for them. Those are the artists that perhaps are not going to be on the clientele of a well-established gallery. By being there in the other art fair or Superfine, you get to talk to those people, like first-time art collectors. It does serve a purpose for new artists to have a chance, for new collectors to get a taste of art collecting, super important. But still I couldn't get my head around usually what you are talking about, different types of art fairs. But there's not any type of art fair that I know in my life that takes a percentage on top of the fees. I mean, I don't know anyone else who does it and it really kind of, it's still bugging me and I'm like wait, after the fair, they still want to charge you like a month after. And when you say 15% I was like, wait a second, usually Saatchi, the website is charging 35%. So that 15% is on top of the 35% or is instead of the 35%. I don't know yet. Anna, do you know anything? I don't, and in fact I'm not on Saatchi anymore. I had some bad experiences and I've known other artists who've had bad experiences. I have a friend who has done really well with Saatchi and he's in their corporate offices so he starts to sell artwork without Saatchi's help and they come after him for that. They almost feel like they own him. So, you know, they can be sort of ruthless in that. My reason that I stopped my relationship with Saatchi is that twice I had paintings sell from the website. Well, I would sell paintings occasionally and I'm very happy, but twice I had them returned. And Saatchi also, let's say you have a painting for $1,000 they have coupons that they can say, oh, you can have anything you want for 20% off. And so all of a sudden you say, oh, you sold your $1,000 painting for $800. And then they take their 35% and you're like what? I didn't agree to that, but you have to read the print. They can use these coupons. So that's one thing. So you're like, oh, I got to put all my prices up and then so, but I sold a pretty large painting through Saatchi and I was excited. I'm like, great. I was supposed to put it in a wooden crate, but I didn't, which was, I'm glad I didn't. It was lightweight, but it was big. I had it professionally crated up and you have to pay for that yourself. The artist does. And that's fine. I knew that. And then it was returned. And I'm like, oh my God. I can't believe it. And so I pick it up from the shipping and so I'm at that $250 that I spent for shipping it, for building this having it professionally wrapped and on the return address, there was the return. So I looked that person up. I'm like, oh, I'm going to call them. And it was a designer. And I called her and I said, hey, I'm, I know I'm not, you know, supposed to, because Saatchi doesn't let you know who buys your painting, right? So, but I called this person and I said, what happened? And she said, oh, I really love the painting, but you know what? The blue was not what was on the monitor. And I was floored because this was a really, a painting with lots of blues and I, I was like, maybe your calibration is off, you know, but I just I just realized this is a game I can't win. I'm, I'm, I'm done. I'm done with this. I can't sell art online like this. It's too upsetting to me. 

That said, my partner, who's also, he's still on Saatchi he sold a big painting. And I was like, okay, prepare yourself. Might not sell. It might, it might come back, but it didn't, you know. And, you know, he was very happy. So he's still on Saatchi. So I'm I'm not saying it's a really bad thing, but I just, I don't want to do that. The disappointment was too much. And I'm like, I can't. I have a feeling, I have a feeling, because I, I know a lot of designer friends, interior designer friends. I have a feeling what happened there was that they probably ordered quite a few paintings. Like they maybe have like a blue wall that they're trying to find a painting to match that specific blue. If his explanation is, you know, let's pretend that he's being honest with you for one second. Like maybe he ordered a couple of paintings and he's just like lining it up in front of the wall and he's like, oh, this one doesn't match. This one doesn't match. And then they save like maybe one or two at the end and then like, you know, send back whatever that is not matching. So it's kind of like. Maybe it's even worse that maybe this designer is just prospecting with some clients and he's going to resell it to his clients and his client didn't want. So definitely, definitely. Yeah. The presence is definitely a pro. Actually the customer is there. You're there. There's a connection and there's a contract made. There's a purchase. You get not everything, but if you would have sold the exact piece on Saatchi, you'll get only 65%. But in this case, you at least get more, 85%. And then you just have to work it out to see how many pieces you actually sell in order to cover the boost costs and your own transport and the hotel and missing work and what other opportunity costs. And then one other handyman to help you, perhaps, one of friend to help you. Do you have to pay him or her, you know? I think the more I look at the prices and especially in North America, it's very expensive. Actually, I looked all the locations. I was looking for the other art fair location in a developing world. I was like, oh, let's see where it's cheap to practice art selling. And I looked. I was like, okay, London. No, no, no, no, no. New York, too expensive. So everywhere is just super expensive. And it seems like for an artist to start this game is going to be it's going to incur a lot of costs. There's no other cheap and easy way to start selling your art. Not even like for like Saatchi Online or Artfinder. They're like 35 percent, 40 percent. I think even there are some like 50 percent. I mean, I'm looking at the pricing right now of how much the booth has cost. The cheapest you can go is Chicago and Dulles. The smallest booth there, which is 32 square feet, is 1,800. So, you know, those two cities, it's still money. It's still money. I mean, it's 10 percent cheaper. But, you know, like it's 200 dollars or whatever, 300 dollars cheaper. And Chicago, you know, it's expensive, but it's not as expensive as New York. I don't want to be that. I don't want to be discouraging to people. I think that you enjoy the process. You try things. You learn to be flexible as an artist. You learn to pivot. And you realize, I'm going to have a lot of jobs. I'm going to live in maybe a lot of different places. Or if you're not, like I'm, I felt for a long time, I have to leave San Diego if I want to make it as an artist. And I eventually was able to. But it took me some years. I think that it's just a matter of being flexible and saying, okay, this is going to work for now. And it may not work forever. I mean, we're finding a lot, relying on social media, relying on, I have friends who relied on Etsy. And for years, Etsy was good. And then, boom, gone. The whole business is gone. You'll survive because of all of the things you learned along the way. And so, going to art fairs is one of the things that you'll learn a lot from. I say, it's worth it. It's worth that $5,000. And Ty, I think you should try it. And then realize, okay, now I'm going to take all that stuff I learned and I'm going to bring it back and I'm going to do something else. I'm going to do something in my own town, Vancouver. Or I'm going to realize, no, I have to focus on moving to London or Seattle or LA, whatever, to move my career forward. And that should be a goal. So listen, I have to go. I'm so sorry. It's lovely to talk with you. See you, Anna. It's so nice to see you again, Anna. Okay. I'll talk to you later. See you. Bye. Now Anna is locked off. Now we can continue. I do have a last question, though. Let's say you're going to spend the same amount of money on either of them. Which one would you go? I can ask this question because this video is not sponsored. Neither do the last video. So we don't have people pay us to say things good or bad about themselves or their competitors. So it doesn't matter. We're free to say what we want. It's so difficult because there's benefit and drawback to each of them. Like Superfine is in Seattle. It's so much closer. I can just take my car, drive three hours down, and voila, we'd be there. Versus LA, it's 40 hours of drive down there. Or we have to take the plane, which has a lot of restrictions to itself. On the upside, LA is cheaper in terms of hotel renting and has a larger art scene. And I definitely want to establish myself there sometime in the future. Being associated with Versace, it might come with its own branding thing. It's nice, but as we talked about in this video, there's so much cost implications and 15% commission. One light, you pay for it. Exactly. In terms of crowds, just be honest, there were way more people at the other fair. So you definitely get to meet more people. Versace Superfine, at least during the day that I visited, it wasn't a huge crowd. So I'm guessing you can hold a longer conversation with people that way. Also, when I was visiting Superfine in Seattle, there was actually a huge art weekend there in the entire city. They draw people in that way too. People go from one site to the other site. Versus the other fair in LA this time, I felt like it's more like an isolated event happening in Santa Monica. I really think that there's drawback and benefit to each of them. So I got to think about it. Yeah, I don't have an answer right now. 

Before I end the video, I just want to quickly talk about our community. That is how we met online and that is how this whole trip happened with Taaye visiting Anna, meeting her at her residency at her home. So we have an online community on our Patreon. So if you want to join to see exclusive content, how we get together and other perks like coaching, come to our page and check it out. That's all for today for this video. Thank you very much for watching and thank you Taaye for sharing your experience at the other art fair and maybe next year when you're actually there we can all visit you at your booth. That would be great. Thank you. Bye! Bye!