85. Career Shift and Marriage

  Welcome to the Connected For Real podcast. I'm Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman, a marriage coach for women in business. And my mission is to bring God's presence into your life, into your marriage and into your business. Let's get started.

 And we are live.  Welcome everyone to the connected for real podcast. I'm Rebetzin Bat-Chen Grossman. And today with me, we have a guest. Kate is here and she's going to tell you all about what she is doing, what she did before and how she shifted her career, her identity and how that affected her marriage.

So we're going to be talking about a lot of very fun things. Kate, introduce yourself. Tell everyone why you're so cool. Absolutely. I'm so thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me. My name is Kate Kayaian, and I am a former professional cellist and now a career and mindset coach for creatives of all kinds.

And I write a blog, Tales from the Lane, which has...  Stories and advice about everything from time management to overcoming or dealing rather with imposter syndrome and coach one on one. And I run the group program, the Creatives Leadership Academy. So that's what I do.  Huh. So let's talk about this shift because that's what we're here to talk about.

There is a career shift that sort of like shook up your marriage in a, you know, in a gentle way. What were you before? How did it look like in your life? And then what happened when you started to shift away from that? Yeah, well, when I first met my husband, he was living in Bermuda at the time, and I was living in Boston.

I was a professional cellist. I was,  you know, doing the thing, playing on Grammy Award winning recordings, and... Just 24 seven being a professional musician and continued that when I got married and moved to Bermuda and actually did it on a larger scale because that's when I started touring around the country and playing more concertos, solos.

I was sort of more in the spotlight.  And he really loved that we, we didn't like being apart when I traveled, but he was so proud of me. He loved seeing me in the spotlight and on stage. . Getting to go to the fun parties afterwards, and he would get to travel with me sometimes, and after the pandemic, well, during the pandemic.

I transitioned to doing work online. So I created the first full scale summer music festival. That was all virtual, the virtual summer cello festival. So I did that. And then I transitioned that into my cello teaching studio, which was a hundred percent online for advanced. Student cellists and then that transitioned to my coaching and my blog became less, you know, the, the lifestyle blog about living in Bermuda that I thought it would be and turned more into this coaching blog and getting more and more followers and attention.

And I loved it. The feeling I got.  When a client would have a big aha moment or a big win or create this program that was helping so many other people  was so much better than being on stage after the most amazing performance.  And I was like, what am I doing? I don't want to go back to that. Like I couldn't see a reason to go back to it.

Nothing was pulling me back to performing once the world reopened. And I made the decision. I said, I don't, I think I don't want to perform anymore.  And That's a big deal in the classical music world. You don't quit. You don't ever quit. You do it. You die on stage of a heart attack, right, playing your last concerto.

And as of this year, I quit teaching. So I'm doing it full time now. So there's less traveling,  there's less glamour and, and honestly, you know, my, my husband and I have, and I have a fantastic relationship and we are so supportive of one another.  And it was funny because.  As I started doing this work, I'd have like, Oh, I got a new client today and I'm really excited to work with them.

And he'd be like, Oh,  that's good anyway. And he kept changing the subject anytime I talked about anything that I was doing in this new identity. Because I tell you it, I don't, I'm sure it's like this in a lot of, a lot of industries, but as a classical musician, we start when we are between three and five years old. 

And it's so intensive, the training, you're practicing every single day of your life. Every decision you make is about whether, how it will affect your work as a, as a musician. Every summer I was off at, at music camps  and, you know, I went to conservatory, went to the New England conservatory of music. It really is all encompassing.

So it is your entire identity. It was like, I was a cellist first. I was Armenian second  and you know, wherever I was living at the time came third. But it, I, I was shocked at how difficult that shift was for him. Cause it seemed relatively easy for me.  I was like, great. Okay. I'm not going to do this anymore. 

I'm going to do this other thing and he was right because you were tasting it. It felt nice to be home, to not have to travel, to have this freedom, to just be, you know, who you are and help people. And, and he wasn't tasting that. He was just seeing it from the side being like,  what's going on, you know? And like you said, it's your entire identity.

Mm hmm.  Mm hmm.  Yeah. And I couldn't understand at first why he  was having such a difficult time with it when I was not. I was like, no, come on. This is going to be great. I'm home. And you know income is much steadier and we have more freedom, right? Because even our vacations and our decisions as a couple were  kind of like bound by my  duties and contracts for for performing. 

And even if we both had a week off, if I had a big concert the next week, I'm like, I can't go away that week. Right. We have so much more freedom. And you know, it, it created a really great opportunity for us to figure that out as a couple, because  it was hurtful.  It's, I felt betrayed. I felt like you're my person, like you're, you're my partner and I need you to be supportive of this.

And he wasn't.  He wasn't against it. He was never against it. He just wasn't  celebrating it with me the way I needed him to, and so we had to figure that out. And it's been really great coming to the other side of it. Yeah, I feel like it's like this undercurrent, you know, sometimes when. You just don't know how to deal with something.

You don't know how to process it. There's emotions that come up for you as a husband or as a part, you know, the supporter and it's like, I don't know, I'm not really loving this and not like, you know, I'm like, I'll be smiling and, you know, sweet and all. I'm not going to like get in the way. But I'm also not supporting this 100%.

Like I see this going the wrong way. I'm not sure where we're going with this. So you have this like undercurrent of like negativity or questioning doubt, you know, and that really gets to you because if you're not communicating, that's the worst form of communication.  You're like, you read right into it, your brain.

The first thing it does is like, he doesn't love me. He doesn't support me. Something's wrong. He must be never like what, you know, your brain will just fly to the most intense places because there is no communication. So how did you deal with it? How did you bring it up from undercurrent to actually like, let's talk,  you know, we were at a party. 

One night and I sort of, you know, we were talking to different people and I had my back to him and I, I heard somebody that he had just met say, Oh, and what does your wife do?  And he kind of hesitated and stumbled and,  and somebody next to him in the conversation said, Oh, Kate's a cellist. She's amazing.

She's won Grammy's like, ah, she's just, she travels all over the world. You've got to hear her play.  And I turned around and I looked at him and  he just looked so sad.  And I realized that he just,  he didn't know what to say. He didn't know how to  describe me anymore to people. And I realized that I hadn't given him the language  to describe me, to explain what I did. 

He took such pride in those things that I did. It was exciting,  and I hadn't yet done anything that was, like, that impressive. And so,  I realized in that moment that it had absolutely nothing to do with whether he still loved me, or whether he still wanted to be with me. Because, honestly, that's how it felt.

I was like, are you only married to me because you thought it was cool that I was a cellist?  Like, is it some weird thing? Like, you just like, Ooh, I'm married, you know, my wife's a cellist. That's really cool. And if she's not going to be a cellist, you know, like if you marry a movie star and he's like, I think now I want to be a,  you know, a bricklayer like, okay,  great. 

What about those parties at Steven Spielberg's house? You know it wasn't quite at that level, unfortunately, but yeah. So in that moment I realized, cause he had been such  He had been saying such lovely things about me before this person asked what it was I did, so it was clear. I'm like, he loves me so much. 

It's just that he's having a tough time with my identity shift. He's having a tough time explaining to people who I am now,  because he doesn't quite get it. And also, I realized that he was,  he needed to grieve.  His wife, the cellist, who is no longer in the picture.  So,  that's what I tell people who are, who are going through this.

Step one is understanding what it is about and what it is not about. It is generally, unless there's a bigger problem at play, it is generally not about whether they... still love you, or still want to be with you, or still want to support you. And it's much more about  the stories that they've told themselves about who they are next to you and your identity and how it affects them. 

And step two is that you have to give them the space and the time to grieve that person because they are essentially no longer in the relationship. With that person.  Yeah. You know, one of the things like, you know, being able to tell your friends, Oh, my wife is on this big tour now. That's why she's not home.

It's so fun. You know, it sounds like so exciting. It makes you special. Cause your wife is someone cool. And then suddenly it's like, Oh, she's a home on the computer.  Right. Like I have no idea, like my husband would tell his friends, like, I have no idea what my wife does. Like, he just says it straight out. I think she became one of those podcast ladies, you know, he has no clue what I do,  like, you know, finally, when his students were all over for, for, you know, a big dinner.

I sat them all down and I taught them my, the calm method, which is like the method I came up with. And I worked them through it. And like, you know, step by step and really I'm like, every single one of you guys has to know this because it will change your life. And you know, It's it's I came up with it as four steps in order to create flow and you guys all want that.

So they were all into it. They said, you know, afterwards they were like giving feedback. It's so intuitive. I love it. It's so easy to, you know, implement whatever. And my husband turns around to me and says,  That's what you do. 

Yeah. I mean, yes, darling, that is what  I do. So it's just, you know, he was listening like all the other guys for the first time to what I'm teaching and he's never heard it before. And it was just, it dawned on me that, yeah. Like when did he have a chance to like, you know, sit there and.  Go deep with my stuff like he's not showing my zooms, right? 

Right. And also I think it's you know, being a graphic designer, you say, my wife was a graphic designer. Everybody knows what that is, right? So we can imagine you going to your way. Maybe if we're imagining it wrong. We can immediately come up with a picture of you going into a big office and doing graphic design.

And, and when you say, Oh, my wife's a cellist,  people, although honestly, my husband had to Google cello when he met me, that's how not into classical music he was.  Maybe he's like sitting there feeling like I went through all this effort to learn this now,  but  people say, Oh, she's a classical, she's a cellist.

People generally know what that is. If you say, oh, my wife's a lawyer, people know what that is. People say, oh, she's a writer and a coach. They're like, what kind of, what does she do? Like, who does she work with? What is... It's more complicated and people aren't as able to just sort of immediately understand it.

So, and that's where, you know, giving him the information and the vocabulary and the language to understand exactly what it is I do was really helpful.  That's that's good advice. Like, you know, take your time, sit down and really, you know, just communicate because the fact that he was communicating to you what he was feeling was just because he didn't have the words that you were communicating to him.

It was just this like assumption that, oh, it's fine. Like you'll figure it out. Or my husband knows what I do. I do it all the time. You know, do it all day long. Yeah, do it all day long. He should know. It was very interesting to see the, you know, the disconnect and how, how it was just like an eye-opener of like, oh, that's what you do.

Yeah. Absolutely. And I think there are a lot of, there were a lot of memories at play too. So once we you know, part of the grieving process,  grieving, you know, in this case, didn't mean like tears and, and the traditional kind of grieving, but more talking about it, like, Oh, what was your favorite recital tour that you came along on?

Like, what was your. What was your favorite memory of being on the road with me or and, and one memory that came up, he said, well, you know, I remember when I first met you  and I was telling my family about you,  you know, I, that's what you were. So like, that's the memory of first falling in love with me.

I'm like, Oh, she's a cellist. She lives in Boston. She's American. Sorry. He's English.  You know, all of that stuff  that was. And, you know, and I had to say like, well, that's all still true. Like I was a cellist and that's still part of me. And  once we could talk openly about it, like it wasn't like, no, I, it wasn't a matter of like, I hate the cello and I don't want to talk about it anymore, which was sort of how he felt like, Oh, she's not a cellist anymore.

So we have to pack that up and put it away. It's not like that.  You know, it's bigger than that. We can, do you still play for fun or just like take it out sometimes? I do, I live on the Island of Bermuda, which is 21 square miles with 60, 000 people on it. And so there aren't a lot of cellists,  uh, and I run the Bermuda Philharmonic.

So I am still involved with the the art scene and the music scene there. And so I'll occasionally play a fundraiser  here and there. But I. Yeah.  Yeah. But it's like, you know, it's such a shift because you no longer are like attached to it and therefore he doesn't know what to attach you to, you know, there's like a missing piece.

Exactly. Exactly. It was funny. Somebody a contractor in Boston who runs this chamber series, he  emailed me and asked me. Like, I don't know them very well. And he asked me if I could do this upcoming concert. I was just like, Oh, you didn't get the memo. Yeah. Thank you. No.  It took me two and a half years to finally feel like I educated all of my clients that I no longer do graphic design.

Okay. Just for all of you who haven't been following for a while, I was a graphic designer for 15 years. And then I had this like new, Pull like God was just calling me to do this thing.  And I was like kicking and screaming. I was resisting it a lot. Cause I was like, you said, I had made my identity around being a graphic designer and I was so happy and so proud of myself for all the things I accomplished and like working on fifth Avenue and working with these big clients and blah, blah, blah.

And then it's like.  I have to leave this, you know, and I was like talking to God a lot, being like, what do you want me to do instead? You know, what is this?  Right. It's a strong pull, isn't it? Like,  you know, I felt that as well of no, this is what I was meant to do. This is my purpose. And everything I'm sure you find that, I mean, everything you put out looks great.

Right. So it all has that graphic design background influence.  I could not do what I do if I hadn't been a cellist. So it will always be a part of me, but it has taken about  six to nine months before it didn't feel weird to not say I was a cellist.  Oh yeah, people ask me what I do. At first it felt like a lie, like I'm a writer.

Like, you're supposed to say you're a cellist. Right? This little voice in my head.  Yeah. I'm a writer. I'm a coach. Yeah. I found it was really hard for my parents because to them, they were so proud of their little girl and who she's become and oh my gosh, 15 years, graphic designer, whatever. And then I turn around and I'm like, okay, you know, pregnant with number six and having this great pull, it's like taking me to this new thing.

And they're like, no, no, no. You're still a graphic designer. Like we're not letting go of it.  Yeah. It was really hard. It's like this, you could do that on the side, but you're still a graphic designer. I'm like, no, no, I'm not even doing graphic design on the side anymore. I'm like done. And they're like, no, you know?

So for me, it was like really interesting to see it as like a mother you know, a parent's daughter thing. Like my parents.  Absolutely. Yeah. I had a hard time. Yeah. Yeah.  I, my mom  didn't really say anything about it at all.  Cool. She's like, okay.  Like, huh. Okay.  All right. All right.  Yeah, something you brought up was really interesting is like when you started talking to your husband about what was your favorite memory and what things did you like?

I think that the things that came up also gave a lot of clarity about what were the things he thought he was losing that really in reality, maybe he wasn't. So tell me a little bit about that.  Absolutely. And that's sort of my, my step three in this process is finding the commonalities of, Oh, I love, I just loved seeing you on stage, you know, you know, sort of the center of attention.

I was always so proud of you. And I said, well, you know, I have those moments. Now, and I think, you know,  it's not really my story to tell, but he, he's kind of shy, my husband. He's very outgoing. He's very extroverted, but he's also very shy. So he doesn't love having to give a speech or being the center of attention. 

And so I think he was kind of living vicariously through me.  So like he couldn't do that. He thought it was amazing that I could just get up there and talk to a huge audience of people and feel really comfortable.  Which of course took a lot of training and experience, but you know, we're not going to get into that.

And so I had to, that gave me some good clues.  Of in my new role, I, I was going to be there. Right. I mean, now, for instance, like he's going to tell everybody about this podcast episode. He ever, he always does. Every time I'm on somebody's podcast or if I'm in the paper or a magazine article about me, he is so proud and he loves showing that around.

Right. It's his version of that. He loves,  that's really great. I think that, yeah. You know, sometimes the husbands think that, wait, I fell in love with this, like, really charismatic, outgoing, you know, really confident in her skin person. And now she's going to turn into this, like, I don't know, like, you know, are you going to like shrink?

Are you going to go back into this? Like, you know, and so it's like, no, I'm not shrinking. If anything, I'm only growing, right? Like I'm going to create a new platform that allows for these truths that I have to teach to come out. And it feels like I'm adding to the world. So in a way, You're not losing that.

Yes, thank you. That was a really beautiful way of stating that. It's exactly right. Like they, I think  they tie those characteristics and those personality traits that they fell in love with, they tie them to the immediate,  you know, facts of like, oh, she's charismatic and outgoing and powerful because she's a cellist. 

Exactly. And it's like, if you stop being Ellis, you will stop being all those things, right? Exactly. So as a coach, you know, I was giving away my power. It was like helping other people be in the spotlight instead. And you know, I am who I am. So  I'm always going to be out there talking to big crowds and people and having a wider reach.

That's important to me.  And so I think, yeah, finding those commonalities of through those conversations and the grieving process and the memories finding out, like, what is it that you are afraid of losing  and then  showing your partner, like how you're not actually losing that. This is how it's just going to manifest differently.

And that's just those things are who I am,  you  know, maybe no,  no Grammy parties, but, you know,  that's okay,  that's okay. Different types of parties, don't worry. There are different types of, but coaches have parties too, right?  We do. Well, if they don't, we should make them, because they're really fun.  That would be great. 

And then, you know, once you've found those commonalities and you have gone through the grieving process and there you've, you know, you sense that they're more like, okay, all right, this is going to be cool. This is going to be fine. You've given them the language to explain who you are and what you do so that they feel confident in, in describing you and talking to others about you and your new identity. 

Then you've got to bring them along for the ride. Like, to whatever extent you're comfortable. Some people work 24 seven with their spouses. And some people, you know, separation of church and state for sure. Like, please do not get into my business, but the more you can share about a win or, you know, something that troubled you that day or what something means like, Oh, I got this.

I was asked to be featured in this magazine, and this is what that means to me. This is what that means to my business and my career. Or my client had this enormous win, and that's...  This is what it means to me.  Bring them along for the ride.  Help them feel like they are part of the new identity. Because I think there is also an underlying fear that  if you fall in love with one person and they change,  they have a new identity, that new identity Might not want to be married to them. 

Right. Right? Like, cellist Kate loved me and wanted to marry me, but does coach Kate love me and want to stay married to me? Like, we're always afraid that it's about us. Like, what if they don't love this version of me? And meanwhile, they're worried that the new version of us isn't going to love them as much.

So that's communication and reassurance. And bringing them along for the ride, I think, can, can help show that in a, in a really great way.  Yeah, I think, you know, just communication is key. Like we said, if there is no communication, that is communication. That's the worst type of communication, right?

Because then like this. vacuum that you need to fill and trust your brain, it will do the brain thing and it will just fill it with all the worst stuff because that's what brains do. All right. Worst case scenario. And it's like, no, no, no, we don't want that. So how we make sure that we address it, you know, even just on their level in the beginning, just giving, you know, basic information, what this means.

Having a little bit of back and forth, listening a lot and, and really picking up on like, what is it that is bothering you so much? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And  I think you're right. You know, we, we are very convincing storytellers to ourselves,  whatever story we are making up about a situation. We are so sure that that is what is going on.

And once we get one, like once we solidify a story, we're so good at rerunning it. So we're like looping in our head about this thing that isn't even true and we won't let it go until something really big  confirms that it's not true. So it's much easier to take, you know, like you said, take them along for the ride.

Start from the start. Like, you know, as soon as things start to pull you as things, as soon as you feel like there is a shift, communicate that and be like, wow, I'm going through something. There's a lot of, you know,  changes is going on, but don't worry. Like I am, I'm, I'm really staying grounded. I'm not leaving, you know, I'm not making any big, you know, crazy moves. 

There's something really reassuring about that. Yeah, absolutely. And I think for both parties, because, you know, you and I were chatting a little bit before, and I mentioned that when I.  Sort of, I fell into coaching over the pandemic when I wasn't performing anyway. So that kind of gave me a nice smooth transition,  but that doesn't mean to say that I didn't go through any, you know crisis of the, of the heart, right?

Because I had been a cellist for 43 years of my life every single day. And all of a sudden I don't need to practice.   And you had told me earlier that when you made your shift that it was  less smooth, you felt like, even though you felt this calling and this pull, it was difficult for you to let go of that, of that identity. 

I was kicking and screaming. I had so much resistance. I was like, you set me up for this. You got me, you know, through school. I went to Pratt Institute. I worked on Fifth Avenue. I was like, so happy with the way things were going and went and like how I built my own thing that I could be home with the kids and still be out and, you know, meeting with big clients and whatever.

And I didn't realize at the time, but like my meetings with the big clients were always about making peace. between the families and, you know, giving them that backing of like, you know,  just what does God want? Get in touch, make decisions based on like, you know, alignment. So it was like I was coaching then too.

And only it took me a while to realize that I actually didn't change anything. I just,  I'm doing different things, but  it, I was so Scared of what this means  and also there was a part of me that was like, Ugh, I hate coaching the whole word, the whole world. Everybody is a coach. Oh, I'm going to just become one of those people and whatever.

It's like, I had so much resistance around that too. Like, I don't want to call myself a coach. I'm just going to call myself an advisor, you know? And I was like, nobody knew what that means. And I was like, okay, fine. I'm a coach.  Just leaning into that, realizing, yeah, it's just the words that people know it.

People can, at this point, people have been educated enough to know what a coach is. And, you know, because my niche is so specific because I was a graphic designer and all of my experience was growing a business while being. The more successful one, right? So like my husband's a rabbi, he's a lot, you know, studying most of the time.

He's answering a lot of questions. He's the go to, you know, person for sources and things. So he's doing his thing and I'm really proud of him, but like, I was the one who was considered the most successful one and I was doing more of like the stuff, you know, and so it's like,  how.  How is that growth, right?

And like constantly trying to get bigger and better in business affecting my marriage. And I, you know, there was a time when I just started screaming at my husband, like, you're holding me back. It's because you're jealous that I'm not growing even more. And, you know, you don't want me to make more money than you or whatever.

Like I threw all this garbage at him because that was a story in my head. And he just looked at me and said,  what?  No,  I have no idea what you're talking about. If you make more money, I'll be so happy. Like, I don't care. I was like, you're not jealous. He's like, no, I'm really proud of you. I'm happy for you.

Go, go, go do it. And I was like,  Oh,  stories. I  was like, yeah, exactly. And it's like, so why are you so annoyed when I have to go work at certain hours or why are you so negative about blah, blah, blah? You know, like he was saying the right things, but. Evidence was showing me that like, he wasn't happy. So he had to really explain what was really bothering him and what wasn't.

Yeah. And I think that was like, that was the breaking point where I was like, you know what, I'm going to show myself that I can succeed and it doesn't have to come at the price of my marriage.  And when I did it, all of my friends from the, you know, from the conferences and from all of the networking events, they were all like, how did you do that?

How did you grow your business succeed and actually like break through all these limitations without. Losing yourself like without losing your marriage without losing the time with your kids Like I was just really able to keep that, you know, quote unquote balance that everybody is looking for, right?

Yeah, and so I started telling them and I'm like, oh, you know, I think I have it down to a method Like I have steps I could teach you and so it just became this thing that fell into place as soon as I was able to let go of the resistance and just lean into it,  it, it just freed itself, you know, and I think the biggest, the biggest thing for me was this there was this coaching program that was going to How to become more of a leader and like really lean into my, my gift. 

And it costs a ton of money, like the most money I've ever spent on anything in my entire life. I was petrified and I turned to my husband and I said to him, like, I'm so scared because signing up for this means I'm committing to becoming a leader. And he looked at me and says. Well, if that's what you're born to do, then that's what you should do.

And I thought, who are you? Like, who is this? What's going on? Like he's saying all the right things, you know,  obviously, you know, it was, it was God sending me the message that yes, I'm being backed up. I have this support. I need to just do it. And as soon as I signed up, I didn't actually have to do anything in the course, even though I did, I got a ton out of it.

But like, just that stepping into the course, like being willing to commit, I let go of all the stories about who I was and what I'm supposed to do and how this is not okay. And I just leaned into it completely. And that was such a relief. Yes. I love that. That's so beautiful. You know, I think that sometimes we can use our, our spouses as,  as a form of resistance.

Oh, I, I call it, I would say like, I can't do this because my spouse wouldn't like it. My spouse would be upset if I made more money than they did. So I can't be too successful. Right? And then they tell you that they really would love it. And you're like, oh, no, I have no excuse. Now I have to do it. Exactly.

And I find that that's really common to when somebody makes a big. big commitment, whether it's financially or if it's a move. And, you know, I, I don't really recommend my students like burn the ships, my clients burn the ships to, to do something, but you know, sometimes emotionally, some  form of that is necessary to show yourself that you are committed.

You're going to do it, right? So when people say, Oh, I, I know I really need to do this, but I, you know, I just don't really have the money to put towards this right now. It's like,  I can't really say, well, putting the money towards it is what's going to make it happen for you. Because it's going to signal to you that you've committed, that you've made the leap into this world. 

Yes. It's so powerful. It's so powerful. And I, I feel it every time I commit to something, you know, and I tell myself, I'm like, this is like, the first step is 80 percent of the work, the commit and the actual, like stepping into this new thing is. Usually what gets me so focused and so motivated to just get that done, you know, and do it.

So, yeah, and I think before that commitment can happen to anything, I think what I just want to circle back a second to something important that you said, which was that when you started Coaching, you realized  the work you were doing as a graphic designer was so closely aligned to who you are as a coach and a mentor that you were doing it all along.

And I, when I first started coaching, like, really beginning months, and I didn't have any clients yet. I had one, right? And I wanted to get more. I was building my website and they say, well, you need testimonials, right? You need people talking about having worked with you. And I said, well, I haven't had clients yet, but I've had so many cello students. 

And I, you know, my coach at the time said like, just pull anything that somebody talks about working with you and what it was like to work with you.  And I went through all of these like thank you cards or Christmas cards or whatever they sent me where they'd write a lovely little note.  And I went back to some of my longer term students who, who wrote me a note when they graduated from high school  and in it, every single one of them had some form of,  you know, you created such an open space for me to figure out who I really was as a person and as a cellist, or you were both a teacher and a mentor.

You were you were my cello teacher. You were also my life coach and, you know, like they were saying it.  Decades before I made this shift  and I think that as important as it is for us to convey that commonality  to our spouses, we have to figure it out for ourselves that who we were before in our old quote unquote identity is still exactly who we are now.

It's just manifesting itself in a different form.  Right. And I think also you can't shortcut. You can't be like. Well, what if I would have become a coach right away and I would have skipped the whole graphic designer? What if I would have like not been a cellist? No, like my whole business is based on all the experience I've had as a graphic designer, you know, and as a wife and as a mother and as, you know, the way that I found how to live and flow, right?

So like my specialty is marriage when it comes to women in business. Cause it's not just marriage. It's this dynamic of how they affect each other and what happens  when, when you want to do certain things. And there is like resistance on the other side, right? So  it, I could not have done that without everything I've gone through.

And you, the same, like you cannot coach people to make their events and be who they are and really show up, you know, authentically without having all of that experience. Yeah, absolutely. When I talk to a performer about  overcoming stage fright,  how am I supposed to coach them through that if I had never experienced it myself?

Right. And of course it's a bigger picture than just getting yourself on stage, which is, you know, where the coaching work comes in. But,  you know, the fact that I've lived through all of that stuff You know, makes me a better writer, a better coach, a better storyteller because music is just storytelling anyway.

So yeah, it's it's a, been a beautiful transition not without it's little bumps and bruises, nothing, nothing scars, no, no open wounds here. But yeah, it's honestly surprised me  that there would be a marital dynamic.  Right. And that's another thing that it's like. We didn't think, we didn't see it coming, so the, just the shock value takes its own toll, you know, it's like if you plan ahead and you're like, okay, one second, I need to communicate, I need to do this, I need to explain what I do, like, yeah, that would have totally gone a different way, but I didn't think those things through because I didn't expect it to happen.

Yeah,  yeah, yeah.  Sometimes these things happen really organically, right? Sometimes it's just a little, yeah. You don't just,  you know, come home from performing heart surgery and say,  I'm going to be a ballet dancer today.  I've quit my job. I'm now a ballet dancer, right? That's, that's not really how it works.

 Yeah, I think that bearing these things  in mind, as you go through this process of when you, if these things pop up, yes, it would be great if you can.  You know, have a preventive, a preemptive strike that's better for you, better for everybody. But, as you see these things come into your relationship,  again, understand what it is and what it is not. 

Give them time and space to grieve, and talk that through, and talk about memories, and through those conversations,  find out what it is they are afraid of losing, talk about how that still exists in you, find those commonalities, and then be sure to bring them along for the ride with you, so it, you know, strengthens you as a couple.

They feel more empowered in what you do.  Yes, I love that. Thank you for getting so practical. It's very helpful for everyone. Me too. It's what my dyslexic brain needs. Like, just give me four clear steps.  Exactly. How can people find you and, you know, follow, follow up with you? Oh, thank you. Well, my website is katekayaian.com which is K A Y A. I. A. N. and my first name. And can sign up for my weekly newsletter, which is called the weekend list. And it comes out every Friday morning. And it's just sort of a summation of that week's blog post, which is career and mindset, advice and stories and it's everything from, 

productivity tips and planning strategies to more bigger picture things of taking action in your careers. And I'd love for you to, to join us along on, on this little ride. Otherwise, if you love a blog, I write the Tales from the Lion blog post.  That's awesome. And if you guys are interested in following up with me or knowing anything more about what I do, so first thing you can get the guide to Unravel Overwhelm, which is my free, you know, free guide. 

And it's really powerful. If you get that at connectdforreal.com/guide so that's really exciting. And he'll I'll send you that link to send to all of your people on your newsletter. And then, you know, if you email me and we can, you know, we can talk about how to work together. And I do have right now two spots left for my one on one three month mentorship.

So That's a really exciting, you know, they're almost filled up, so I'm very excited.  Yeah, usually I was doing like group things for a long time. So suddenly for me to open up one on ones is like a real treat and I'm really enjoying it. So yeah, thank God. And thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for sharing your story.

Thank you for having me. What a great discussion. It's, it's an important conversation to be having. So thank you  for sure. And thank you everyone for listening. We'll be back next week with more amazing information and interviews.  Thank you.

 And that's it! Thank you for listening to the very end. I would love if you can leave a review and subscribe to the podcast. Those are things that tell the algorithm this is a good podcast and make sure to suggest it to others. Wouldn't it be amazing if more people became more connected for real?  And now take a moment and think of someone who might benefit from this episode. 

Can you share it with them?  I am Rebbetzin Bat chen Grossman from  connectedforreal. com. Thank you so much for listening and don't forget you can be connected for real.