99. Spend Money on Yourself Guilt-Free

Welcome to the Connected For Real podcast. I'm Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman, a marriage coach for women in business. And my mission is to bring God's presence into your life, into your marriage and into your business. Let's get started.  And we are  live. Welcome everyone to the connected for real podcast. I'm Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman, I'm a marriage coach for women in business. And as you know, I have the four pillars in any program that you ever do with me, even one on ones. They are. God is at the core marriage and business have to work together.

And then you. As your whole self, you have to contain all of this. So God, marriage, business, and you and you have heard all four  pillars being addressed with money. Today we're in pillar number four, money and you and This is super fascinating because how do we spend money on ourselves? How do we give permission to ourselves to really enjoy the money we have?

And why do we feel so guilty?  So welcome, Rifka. She is the expert on money. especially here in Israel. So introduce yourself first and then let's get into it. Hey, thank you so much for inviting me. My name is Rifka Lebowitz. I'm a CFP certified financial planner and I help people really live their best life with whatever money they have and like plan out their life that aligns their values and their money so that it works for them because money at the end of the day is a tool and we want to live the best life we can.

So that's what I help people do in my financial planning.  Awesome. So let's get right into it.  Why do we have such a hard time spending money on ourselves?  So it's a good question. And what's interesting is that we see that sometimes people have a hard time spending money, even when they have millions, like it doesn't, it's not always correlated with not having money, which people think it is like, Oh, if I had money, I wouldn't find it hard to spend on myself.

And. You know, maybe it's coming from a different reason with people with money finding it hard to spend on themselves than it is with people without money. It might be and it might not be, but the funny thing is that we see that people have a hard time spending money themselves, particularly women actually but not always.

And You know, it can come from a few things. It could come from a certain guilt. It could come from a lack of knowledge , of real concrete numbers. Like I think I can afford it, but I'm not really sure. It can come from a place of,  I'm not really worth spending. Money on like, yeah, I'll spend on my kid.

Oh, my kid needs to do this. No problem. My husband needs no problem. But like, you know, I could figure it out. I'll get away with it. I don't have to do it myself. So there's definitely some worthiness that sometimes comes in for people there.  And again, I'm telling you, it can happen with people who have money and who don't have money who have the same issue.

And, you know, that might seem almost irrational and Possibly it is because a lot of times we are irrational with money. You know, we maybe we want to invest in our business and we're like, oh, I wouldn't do that. But if my husband came to me and he wanted to invest in his business, of course he would.

So there's definitely something there. It definitely does exist for some people, not for everyone. And you know, it can stem from That connection with our self worth, it can stem from a feeling of maybe a fear even of like, well, if I spend the money that I won't have more money, like this might not work and it might not be worth investing in or doing.

so It can come from these places and it's definitely a real thing.  Totally. You know, I was speaking to someone and she was, she was sold. Like she knew this is what she wanted to do. She needed help figuring out, you know, her business, her money, her marriage, her entire life, like everything just needed to fall into place.

And she had a really hard time, especially with her husband's personality and how he deals with the kids and he deals with her. And you know, how do I find myself in all this? It was like the perfect, I was the perfect person to work with her, right? Like she was. And she knew it, but she said, I just can't, I just can't.

And I said, what would you do? Same exact budget, same exact situation. But your husband says he wants to get help. Like, Oh yes, because he needs the help. He's the one who should get help. Right? Like I would tell him in a heartbeat to get the help. But to give it to myself, I just can't, I just can't. And it blows my mind that we do that because we don't realize the lifetime value of investing in ourselves  and how it affects all the people around us.

And I want to, I want to talk about that with you a little bit, because  when we take the time and the money and, you know, the resources that we have, you said even wealthy people have a hard time investing in themselves.  It just shows it's proof that it has nothing to do with the money, you know, just like this woman said, it's not about the money.

Like, Oh, I don't have the money. I don't know, blah, blah, blah. It's like, I would spend the same amount of money on someone else. That's just not on me.  Exact same budget. Exact same money situation. Nothing to do with me.  So we think it has to do with money and it has definitely got this emotional connection with how we're connected with our money.

Like what's the money here for? What does the money serve? Why is there money? So I could say, you know, well, there's money and if someone else needs it, then that's what we have money for. But then what you're coming to is like, well, what if. I need it. Well, we can get away with it. We, whatever. Cause I maybe want to have it in my mind.

I want to have it for someone else in case that comes along. I want to help someone else,  but people will have that same thought process when they have plenty of money for all the different things. And there's sort of a  insight we need to like rationalize, like why we're spending money on ourselves when we, maybe we could get away without it.

And like.  Sometimes we need to, we need to, the more I've invested in myself and trainings over the years and doing various things in my journey from a banker to where I am now, and the more courses I've done and spent money on, the more I've seen that this is like, of course I had to do this, of course I had to, if I was just like, oh I'll figure it out without, I wouldn't have got to where I got to, I wouldn't be able to help my people.

the way I can help them. So, you know, once you've done it and the more you do it, you realize that like it's worth it. And then it sort of becomes easier to do it. But that first step is sometimes the hardest to justify to ourselves. Mostly it's sometimes really is the hardest, like.  Okay, I'm going to spend money on my business on myself, you know,  right, I, I remember when I was in the poor mentality, you know, early, early on,  that was the first thing I had to get over. 

I was like, What do you mean yoga went up from 20 to 25? Now I can't do it anymore. You know, I won't do it if it's just at home with the video. But it makes sense to, you know, save the money and do it at home with the video. But I know I won't do it because I need the accountability. But yeah. It went up in price and now it's too expensive.

Like,  come on, stop it. You know, and, and it's, you know, same thing with like water exercise or the things I use that I still do,  I've been doing them for like, I don't know, 13 years at least.  And it's been so interesting to watch how just. Just the basic things that I know I need in order to be healthy, in order to be my best, in order to be in a good mood, in order to feel good in my body.

I question,  even if they're just, you know, little amounts of money here and there, but then I start acting, you know, like calculating how much it's a month and how much it's a year and, Oh my gosh, I'm spending all this money on myself. It's like, could you stop already? You know?  And the only thing that helps me is realizing that my kids. 

Feel the benefit when I go to yoga or when I go to water exercise, my husband knows that I'm in a better mood and it's worth it for him that I take the time to go and take care of myself, you know, and these are like the basics. I'm not even talking about investing in the coaching that I've invested in and all of the programs and the trainings and you know, the amount of money  that I've invested in myself, you know, when I put it. 

All in numbers. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's crazy. That's so much money. But when you look at the results, everybody wins. Everybody wins, and they don't have to do any of the work. And this is what's most fascinating to me, is women who come with. You know, they come to me and they're like, my husband needs to be fixed.

Like there's something wrong with him. You know, he's labeled like this and he can't figure this out. And he hasn't been, you know, connecting and I just can't stand it anymore. And I'm at my wit's end. And like, you know,  so why doesn't he just go and do the thing he needs to do? Like, why do I have to invest and do and go and whatever?

But when you do the work, you could change everything.  You can, you can completely single handedly change the atmosphere in your home and your relationship with your husband and everything that's going on that you think should magically just happen on its own. You can do that single handedly, but you have to be willing to want it hard enough and want it.

you know, to the extreme that I'm ready to do what it takes. And then it's like, well, all the, all the, everything opens up all the gates. They all open. So it's definitely like  almost tightness in the name of responsibility. I would say like on some level, we also have to be responsible. Like I'll meet people who, I mean, I met people of all income levels and all wealth levels, like really.

everything across the spectrum. And,  you know, sometimes we have to be responsible with our budget. Like we can't spend more than we have. And that, that is a good thing ultimately. Like we do need to be responsible. The question is how we take the steps from being what we're going to call responsible, which is super important. 

to moving forward so that that budget that we have looks different a year from now, five years from now. Like how do we grow that? Like some people are like, well, my budget is, you know, balanced. I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't do anything. I can't invest more. I can't, you know, I can't spend more.  And we always have to be looking for that point, that sort of balance between What's pushing us forward and we don't know how much it's going to push us forward like we're both sitting here and saying it pushed us forward and it really did,  but like there's that fear before you take the step of like, well, it's really work like am I going to invest 10, 000 whatever it is in this in this program in this path, and then.

or coaching or whatever it is. And I'm like, actually get, you know, five times that back or 10 times that back, or what if I don't get anything back, nobody ever wants to feel like they wasted money, nobody ever wants to feel like they, you know, burnt money or that they had, and now they don't. And they can't do something they wanted.

They can't go on that vacation because they spent it on. on something else.  And people really don't like that feeling. So like we've got that balance between the,  you know, what we have in our budget and like that push to move forward and to do better, which is costing money. But Right now I have the certainty of 10, 000.

Let's just say in my bank account, if I spend all of that on something that's scary, I don't know if I'll make it back. Chances are, well, but I don't know.  And that the fear there really stops people.  I think when, you know, you brought up the 10, 000 program, I don't have that anymore. I closed it. Now I just take 2, 500 for three months.

And I find that it's easier to swallow. It's like, okay, I can do that. You know, it's less of a, of a shock  and you can get a lot done in three months. So I found my like beautiful tipping point where it's like, okay, this is good. 

I found that there's, you know, the main, Objections will always come from belief.  You know, I don't believe in myself that I'll make the money back or I don't believe in myself that I'm even worthy to have this investment. And that's the biggest one, right? The other one's like, I don't have the money. Okay, let's figure it out.

You can, you can find the money. In, you know, payment plan in, you know, bringing in more money and all sorts of creative ways. I love to say, give it over to God and just let him show you where the money is because a lot of times it just falls into place if it's exactly what needs to happen and this has, you know, played out  time and time again, so.

And so I'm almost not surprised anymore when I tell people and then they call me back like, Oh my gosh, you won't believe it.  But it's hard, right? Because that's also a belief. But and the time I don't have time, I don't know if I can handle it. It's like really changing. The programming and doing the things that you need to do in order to get there.

Don't take that much time. They take intentionality, right? So like you can do a lot with very little time and you're just telling yourself it's going to consume you, but really it's not, if anything, it creates more time because you're no longer stressing and draining over, you know, wasted time, but the biggest one is the belief.

I just don't believe that I deserve it. I don't believe I'm worthy. I can't receive this.  I'm not open to it. And you know, , that's what we do in my program is like open yourself up to abundance and allow God to fill you up. And it's like.  You don't have the skills yet because we haven't learned them yet because you haven't been in my program yet, right?

So I think it's a chicken and egg thing. How do I get to a point where  I could just allow myself to be in that and receive and allow as opposed to try to like control it and sort of like, You know, rabbit.  So, I mean, I think, I think a lot of it, obviously, you know, I'm not a psychologist, but behavioral finance is a huge field and I just love learning that, you know, whenever I have the opportunity to read a book about it or to learn about it, always learning that and so much is like rooted in how we were brought up and how we were How we see money, like, you know, we could have a family that had money or didn't have money.

Like, did they spend it on me? Did they not spend it on me? Was it worth doing things to invest in ourselves? And I think I'm talking back to when I was a kid, people didn't really do these things. Like a lot of this coaching stuff and a lot of these things are sort of more recent. I'm making myself sound very old here.

You know, I always joke that my grandmother says, like, you know, in her day, which was a long time ago as she's 98 years old, you know, you got a job and you just worked in the job for life, like you weren't changing and developing and opening a business that was like a very small percentage of people, but now we're seeing that a lot more like be creative, be yourself build up, there's no limit abundance. 

And so maybe it's not something people saw in the past as much. So You know, and there were maybe we're used to like, Oh, we don't spend money. Like we don't need to do it. So suddenly there's this like,  Oh, well, there's all these things I could do, but I'm not sure. And then I'm not used to doing this. And I didn't see this in the past.

And, you know, we were a family who only spent money on certain things. And we need to sort of shift that mindset a bit of like,  if we can spend money on what we value. We're the happiest, meaning money doesn't make us happy. There's a certain there's research done in America years ago showing  over what income level does it not make a difference to your happiness?

I think it was like 60, 000 or something like that per year. Maybe obviously nowadays would be a little higher, but like  at some point, once you've had your basic needs met, money doesn't really impact happiness. Meaning the amount of money doesn't impact happiness, what we use our money for does. 

So if I am standing at a juncture where I'm like, I could leave my money on the bank and feel X, or I could do something with it and I value what I want to do with it very much, that will increase my happiness.  But it's about it. I'm learning. And it's scary. And it's scary. I want to validate the fear because.

You know, the fear always is almost like pointing us in the right direction. If it feels scary, then, you know, there's something there, right? This is like a risk that,  gosh, I'm going to, you know, when I invested 10, 000 in a program. By the way, it was like totally transformed my life. It was called the  quantum leap entrepreneur.

And that was definitely a quantum leap. You know, it was like, you saw me then and you see me now and you're like, what just happened? Right. So I definitely see the results and I saw how it impacted, but when I was. At that, at that point of, Oh my gosh, I found the right thing. And I know I'm being guided to this and I I'm becoming a leader and I'm so scared.

And I went to my husband, I was like, if I  buy this thing, I will become a leader. And that's freaky. You know, that's scary. I feel it in my entire body. Like it is. Fear. It's real fear. And my husband said, well, if that's what you were made for, then what's the question?  I look at him like, who are you? Like what's going on?

Right? Like the husband who doesn't take risks and doesn't like to spend money on anything is like very much like he is so responsible. Like you said, you know, it's really like there's this like responsibleness about him. Like he doesn't just take, Oh yeah, let's do it. And here I was coming to him and there was a real value there.

You know, I knew exactly what I was going to become and it was freaky. It was scary. It was.  The biggest thing I did, but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. It actually is a lot of the times the exact thing you want to do, because it is showing you like pointing here, you know, beep, beep, beep, this is it.

This is where you need to go. And the fear is just. You know, it's coming. It's coming with me for the ride and I took it with me and I was like, we're doing this and we're doing it scared. But you know what we were talking about, you know, memories of when we were old, when we were young and the olden days,  I remember one of my earliest memories is getting  crayons like those like oil pastels from my grandmother.

She bought me cause she knew I was an art, you know, artistic and liked colors and stuff.  I'm the oldest. I know you are too. And I got, I got this brand new pack of oil pastels that were gorgeous. They were like, you know, like just for an artistic child's like, wow. And I remember keeping them in the plastic  forever.

Forever. Because I just didn't want to use them. I didn't think that I was worthy of doing anything with them that was going to make sense for this, you know, valuable thing that I have. So for years, they're just sitting there and they're moving with me. Like we moved a lot when I was a kid, they were coming with me.

They're, you know, part of me, but I am not using them. I'm not doing anything with them. And that has nothing to do with money. It has to do with the worthiness of being willing to even. Use the things you have. Allow yourself to enjoy what is in front of you.  And this is very much  It's a process. I've been through that process with clients who've You know, let's take an example of a client who suddenly inherited a lot of money and had no idea that their parents have this kind of money. 

And they're like, we always like, you know, went to the cheapest store, which we'd go all the way across town to buy something for less money. And suddenly it's like, well I don't have to do that, but it's part of my values. And do I need to spend more on myself? I could buy this for less, but like you're sort of pointing out, like where are your volumes?

What's important to you? These crayons is a, is an amazing example, actually, because it's the same idea. Well, okay. I have 10 million sitting in the bank. But it's not serving your purpose. Like, why do you like the crayons? It's not because they're sitting in a drawer closed. You like them because you're an artist and you want to create with them.

So, you know, again, we have this, like, we gotta be responsible. You don't want to use your crayons all up in the first day. You want to have them and enjoy them, but you also want to use them. So it's the same, like, it's a learning curve with money sometimes, you know, like, what is the right amount to, like, Keep for that being responsible, keep for long term, and what is the right amount to say, you know what, I'm using it now because I want to invest in myself because I'm worth investing in, because I want to use those crayons and create while I'm eight years older or older,  and that balance is something that takes work, it takes work, it doesn't come to everybody naturally, and  You know, it's like, it's, it's one of these things.

It's just a lifetime of work for some people to be able to like spend without guilt, to be able to, I mean, the guilt, the guilt's huge for some people. And to be able to just. Enjoy it. So this is spending without guilt and separately, enjoy it.  And sometimes, you know, when I'm doing even budgeting with people, and I'm like, okay, you spend this amount of money on food. 

You need to change that. For whatever reason. They want to change it, they need to change it. And I'm like, and then they come back and they're like, now that I had an amount I could spend per week.  I spent it guilt free and I enjoyed my shopping experience more, even though I spent less money and our family had the food we needed because obviously we don't want to deprive anyone.

We don't want to not spend money to deprive. We don't want to overspend. When we find that balance of the right place, we're spending what we can and should to move us forward, whether it's a coaching session or even food at while they're very different. The guilt goes away and we can really enjoy what we're spending money on more.

I know that sometimes people will tell me they go on vacation and it's always guilty. Oh, we're in overdraft or, you know, we didn't have the money for it and it's a horrible feeling. So why are you going on vacation? You don't want a horrible feeling. Vacation should be a good feeling. And then when we managed to do it in a way where there was no guilt about spending because the money was earmarked and they knew they had it.

That guilt just melts away, and they enjoy the vacation more, so we got rid of the guilt, and we're having a much better vacation, which is better for everybody.  I think the word here is intentionality.  Because when you're just doing things because you think that's what you need to do and that's what you should do and that's what's happening and you're just in this, you know, routine thing of like running after your own tail, there is a feeling of, I'm just not enough.

I'm not doing enough. I'm not, you know, being enough  and, and we actually become intentional. I can.  live the same exact life, you know, running after my own tail, whatever it is, you know, balancing just right and somehow making it and whatever. But my entire consciousness has changed. And  I find a lot of times the guilt is here to teach us something.

And when we don't give it the time to express itself, it, you know, reverberates and gets louder and louder and louder. And that's usually when you feel extremely guilty, right? And like, it's in our blood. So guys, even if you're feeling a little guilty about something, still not, you know, it's not supposed to paralyze you.

Just keep going. Just like I brought fear along, you can bring guilt along. It's okay. But a lot of times when the guilt is so loud, and you're like, I can't, I just cannot get over this thing that is like, holding me back, stop for a minute and have a conversation with guilt, you know, like, let it tell you what's happening, what's going on?

Why do you feel so guilty? Sometimes it is mind blowing what's coming up. And then you can actually like, sit down and decide like, Oh, do I intentionally want to be there or can I be intentional in other ways? And it's just like you say, you're, you're marking money or budgeting a certain way or being responsible or talking to the right people or having the right guides.

It's, it's all about that. It's how do I allow myself to learn new skills and to become a person who is intentional about money or is intentional about spending on myself without thinking, Oh, I'm just doing this cause I need to. Oh, you know, like that extreme of I'm so depleted that now I'm just going to go out and buy whatever it is that will just fill me up.

But it doesn't because you do it without intentionality  where, you know, as opposed to you can. First of all, not get to a place where you're so depleted and allow yourself to spend. Where you find are, you know, like you said, is aligned with my values. Such a, an important topic to address. 

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Now back to the show. 

 I think, I think both fear and guilt come with a good side.

Like they're there to protect us. You know, the fear is there to protect us. It stops me, you know, jumping off the cliff or whatever. You know, it stops people from doing something that you shouldn't be doing. Like it's there for a good reason. But it's also there to keep us like safe. And, and, and sometimes we want to go out, not to an unsafe place, just to an unknown place.

And like, let's say I take an example that I mentioned before, like clients who inherit very large sums of money suddenly, like they've come from no money and suddenly they have large sums of money. There can be a guilt. That's a good guilt and a guilt. Maybe that's not a good guilt for them.

Meaning they're like, Oh, I feel bad. Like I'm not being kind. Okay. You're not being kind with your money. So let's be kind with our money. Let's tithe. Let's give charity. Like let's  Let the guilt is there as you said it's there for a reason to help us but there also could be that fear with money like oh people are going to rip me off like people have heard stories of You know that lottery winner that That's worse off five years later.

And statistically, that's what happens. So the fear is, is coming from a place to really protect us. And it does protect people. You know, you didn't get a good feeling about that investment person, but your investment, but you went for it anyway. No. Sometimes that's actually a warning that like, hold back, that's not a safe investment.

That's not a good investment. Or it's a great investment, it's not suitable for you.  So, so yeah, we have to sort of, I like what you said, like we have to address the fear and the guilt and be like, okay, where is this coming from? Is this really protecting me in a way I need protected? Or is this holding me back?

Like someone came to me and they're like, well, I could just leave my money in the bank for the rest of my life. And I just pull out whatever I need when I need it. Because it's enough money to see me through, you know, the rest of my life and help my kids. And that's very unintentional, as you were saying.

And like, when we broke it down to like, well, what if we did this? And what if we did that? And that's for passing on to the next generation. And that's for helping the kids. And that's for you to live guilt free in this, with this kind of investment, with this kind of risk level, suddenly it's like.  It feels better.

It feels different. I had the intention there  and, and it works. And like when it's broken up correctly, and this doesn't matter if it's millions or not millions, like I was just using that as an example. When it's broken up correctly and working for me,  it's a different world. It might look the same from the outside, but it's a different world. 

So, you know, when we were little, we used to go on long car rides. Like we would go on car trips and, you know, visit places and we'd be like hours and hours in the car. And one of the things my parents always liked playing with was what would happen if you want a million dollars? And they made us all as teenagers answer this question, right?

And one of the things that really struck me, my brother said, The first thing I would do is hire an expert to help me. And I thought,  what, you know, the first thing I would do is take a 10th and give it to, you know, to type, like I would give it, like that was the first thing on my mind is like, okay, a 10th of it already automatically goes into a different account.

That one is just for doing good, good deeds. Then what do I do with the rest? And he was like, no, no, no, no, no. I would pause everything. I would get an expert on my side who wants the best for me and who is going to help me break it down. And this is a teenager talking, like he was a young teenager.  And I remember it until today, because that, for example, is one of those things that you say to yourself, like, that's so selfish, like you're using the money just to you as the container of all this money.

But no, that's exactly it. It's like, I am the container of all of this life or all this money of all of this, you know, everything I'm holding. And if I can't make sure that I am functioning in the best capacity, making the best decisions. being the most intentional, then how can I do that for other people?

 How can I serve in the best way if I can't do it for myself? That was like, mind blown as a teenager. I remember it so clearly and I love it because it, it reminds me, like it showed me something I didn't even think of for myself because I am very different. I do not think of myself. Like if there's a list of everyone who matters.

You know how people are like at the bottom of their list? I'm not even on the list.  Right? Like, I had to grow up so much.  To get to this place where I'm at. I'm like, always taking care of everyone. Making sure everything, everybody is at peace. Making sure everybody is perfect. Everything, everybody has what they need.

And it's like, did you take care of yourself? I'm like, no, I haven't eaten since the morning. You know? It's like, what's going on? Why are you not taking care of yourself? Like, I don't know, I just forgot.  Like, it wasn't on the priorities list. So there's just certain things that your nature is wonderful and when you become intentional and, you know, conscious about certain things and you bring them into your life, you also are able to take from other people's perspectives and help you build that, you know, intentionally.

As I said, so it's interesting you say about your brother, like there's nothing wrong with saying, I'll take 10 percent and tithe it, right? There's nothing wrong with that. It sounds like a very smart and beautiful thing to do, right?  The way your brother wants to do it, he might end up giving a lot more. He might end up tithing a lot more because he's done it at a tax advantage.

You did it in a year where, you know, he donated this year and not last year because he'll get taxed back. He'll pay less tax and more charity. Like, Sometimes that intentionality, it's not you won't you not even getting the same result. You'll be doing something very different. So it looks like it's very nice of you to say, Oh, give 10 percent to the end with what an amazing thing.

Like that sounds right. But sometimes your brother's even more right, because it would be the smarter way to do it. So  There's things that you just don't know. As a normal person living in this world, if you're not the expert, then you just don't know. You don't know that there's certain text things. You don't know that there's a certain way to do things.

And you need those other eyes, and you need those other brains to help you see things.  Yeah. I mean, that's what financial planning is all about. Financial planning is really working for the clients, taking their values. I mean, when I gave my intro on what I do, it's really understanding who these people are like, what are your values and, and really aligning them with the money.

And then it just makes for a much better life.  It really does like quality of life. It also gets rid of the guilt that we were discussing before it, it just. It like fits well for people. Like you, unfortunately I met people and like, Oh, I have some money manager who takes care of everything. And they're not even doing well.

And I don't like dealing with them. And you're like, that's not serving you well. Like we have to remember that money is there  for us to be responsible long term to take care of us. Now  it's a tool. It's not, it's not the goal.  Right. And, and I think that was super important with the planning is really like.

Making sure it aligns with the person and the person's values. So, like, when I'm doing a financial plan, I'm thinking, Who is this person? Like, I'm working with them on who they are, so that we can make a plan for them to be with the right people that they enjoy working with. For their money to be making money, for it to be earmarked correctly, because all of these things help them.

Get rid of the guilt. Like sometimes there's a survivor's guilt like with money.  Why didn't my parents tell me they had this much money? I belong in a certain social society where we all go camping. I can now afford to buy the hotel next to the camping site. Do I still go camping? Of course you're still go camping.

You were doing it because you enjoyed it. It's a value of yours. It wasn't about not being able to afford the hotel, but we're redefining our values when we have more money  because the more questions come up.  Yes.  Yeah, it does. And our self worth again comes in like, okay, so I have money or even if I don't have money,  I'm spending on myself.

I'm getting back to that because it's something that I want anyone listening to this to ask themselves, like, why am I not spending on myself if I'm not spending on myself? Like what's stopping me? Is that reason rational? Would I spend on other people at this point? You know, what, what's the responsible thing?

And what's the just beyond responsible? Within being responsible where I could push myself so that I could be making more so that  my future looks different.  Yes, I love it. I love it. And I was going to ask you, what is the first step a person can do, especially a woman, because we're talking, you know, that woman guilt.

The mom guilt. What is the first thing that they can do to just at least start something feeling like a little bit better about spending on themselves or a little bit better about consuming what they have?  I think it's a few things. One is It's upping our awareness, or maybe, maybe I could even put it into one thing.

It's upping our awareness that what we're doing is for good. It's also for the good of our children, for those that have children. Because if my business is more successful, or I'm a happier mother, and I find that balance right, meaning we're successful doesn't mean I'm working full time and making the most money in the world.

No, it means it's working well for my family. That's how I define success. If I can get to that point by doing something. Then I've been more successful than it's great for my family. Like I took this leap of faith all these years ago when I left the bank, I had tenure in a bank, which means I could have been there until 65 or whatever the official retirement age is for me.

I think it's 64. Actually I could have been there until then with a job. I could have worked terribly and been rude to people and I wouldn't have been fired basically.  And I stepped out of that and said, I want something different. Now, had I done that, I wasn't home as much for my kids. I wasn't off in August.

I wasn't off for our holidays.  You had to work. It was a bank. You had to work. And like, there were minimal vacation days and it was 11 per year. And then 12 and then 13. I'm like. I took that leap of faith, I invested in myself, and I changed my life, but I also changed my kid's life for the better, because I did it.

And think about all the people's lives that you've touched since. You know, every single person who knows you, who has read your books, who has been in your programs, who has anything, had anything to do with you. Has been affected by that change. Isn't that amazing?  Yeah. You think, Oh, it just changed me. No, maybe it also changed my husband, my children.

Like no way beyond that. Like the impact that I can make. When I'm at my best and when I can, you know, contain all of that is tremendous.  That's a really nice point. You're right. I mean, I've been very, very fortunate to help many, many amazing people. And,  you know, whether it's changed people's marriage, I've had people say to me, you know, we were just so stressed out with the financials and you just changed the picture for us both and reframed it. 

And we're doing better and our marriage has never been as good. And you're like, Oh my goodness, like the difference it can make to people. Yeah. And the books you're right. That's very kind of you to say, but you're, you're absolutely right. Like the impact is not about even me and my family. It's  of impact.

I've been able to fortunately to impact thousands and thousands of people.  Yeah, isn't that? It's just amazing for me. It's, you know, it's living proof that when you step out of your comfort zone and are willing to become, you know, like in my case is like, I'm willing to become that leader. I'm willing to be that person that is making an impact.

That's a little bit louder than I'm used to. That's a little bit more like, you know, stand upright and do the thing, you know, and whatever. It  is so cool. Satisfying to know that, wow, you know, and you said there was a risk, you know, there's always a risk of like, what if I don't get my money's worth, you know, in a program, what if the ROI doesn't come through  and I have changed my mindset around that, my, I just tell myself if I am.

You know, if I find something and I pray a lot, a lot, like I am very guided by God,  I, there's a lot of programs that I, you know, come across and there's a lot of things that want me to join, but  if it's not the right thing for me, it will fall through because I know God will only let me join the right things.

Like he's so exact. So  I come with. This is so exact for me. If I actually join it, it means that I am here to get the most out of it and I put myself into it like I'm actually going to get the R. O. Y. You know, like there is no way I can fail because I'm exactly where I need to be. I have never had a program or a coaching you know, experience or anything where I didn't see the results.

Now that doesn't mean it was instant. The first coach I ever had six months, I didn't bring in that much money. I was so frustrated. The last coaching call of six months was let's just, you know, relax into not making the money back, you know? And I was like, you know, you just want to like. Strangle her, you know, it's like I did not make my money back.

I'm disappointed. I'm upset I'm, you know frustrated and she's like just lean into that and be okay with that because you're inside a process and it's coming And she was so right because a couple months later. I got two clients that completely tripled my investment, right? so You just, I was still using all the right skills.

I was still using everything she taught me, but I just wasn't in the program anymore. That doesn't matter. I can see that as an honest, you know, consumer. I can see the connection between, oh, this came, this money came in thanks to the work I did. Right? And  with this attitude going into a program like I am getting the most that I need out of this program, sometimes the ROI is not money. 

Sometimes it's the peace of mind and the systems and the things that are coming with  the investment that make it worth it for me. And then of course, like the money always falls, you know, comes around falls into place.

That's what I'm looking for.  And  with an attitude like that, then it's much easier to take risk because you're a lot more trusting and sort of falling into it. From a place of, if I'm already here, it must mean I'm meant to be here and I'm going to get the most out of it. And it could be like the junkiest program ever, and it could fall apart midway.

And it could just be like, what's going on, which happened to me. And one of my programs, there was like six first months were amazing. The six, second months were like the last six months were an absolute.  And still  I was able to get, triple that investment  because I, I want it because I'm here. I show up,  you know, so a lot of it is trust in yourself that you're capable of getting the most out of every situation. 

Right. And you're going to make it work and therefore you're going to make the investment because you're worth it. Which bottom line of a lot of this conversation is, you know, you're worth investing in and we don't know how it's going to pay off exactly. But I'd say most of us who are do these things, you know, whatever it is, whether it's a technical program or coaching program or just step out of their comfort zone and see the results. 

We do. We see results.  It changes us if we, again, take it seriously and do it right and, you know,  and the fear is there to make sure we're not being ripped off or anything, but it's also there to keep us within our little area and we can definitely go beyond.  Yes, I love it. Okay, let's talk a little bit about preparing for all these conversations.

I know that you're working on a book and I want to hear all about it  because it's fascinating.  So I came out with an online course a few years ago about couples talking in marriage and  just like getting couples to talk. about money things. And what I realized was from my clients and working with them, there are so many money conversations that couples aren't having.

So I'm bringing out this book of 20 financially smarter questions every couple should discuss. And you know, I'm sure some couples will be looking at it when they're engaged and when they're just married. And some couples are looking at it 30 years down the road. But the idea is that if we could get couples to understand each other, they don't need to be the same about money.

We're going to do better as a couple financially, because money is one of the things that is actually really a reason the people get divorced and have real tension in their life.  And if we can eliminate that by talking about certain topics and just understanding each other,  that would be brilliant.

That would be amazing. Should I give an example?  Yeah. Well, I just want, I want to double tap on what you said, and then you'll give an example. Sure. Money is one of the biggest reasons there are divorces, and that, you know, money causes the most stress in the marriage, and it's not really about the money most of the time, right?

So, the money is the trigger, the money is the thing that like brings everything up, but I find that it's more about What's behind that, you know, so it's like we're not supposed to be like you're supposed to be providing I'm supposed to be provided for why are you not doing your job, you know, and so it's really not about the money It's about the identities and the things that you believe as a child and the things that you've seen There's so much that goes, you know behind the scenes of the money stories So yes, it's about the money and no, it's ultimately not about the money.

But that's exactly what I discussed in the book. I didn't tell anyone in the book yet, but like you, you sort of hit the nail on the head. Like I have an expectation. I go to get married. My husband has a totally different expectation, but because it was an expectation, it was almost subconscious. I didn't mention it. 

He has the same thing. He didn't mention it. So we go through our lives with a certain frustration that's built in from, from expectations. So those are the questions I bring up. I bring up things like, where do you see yourself with it? With the, you know, ain't providing for the family.  Now I see myself as someone who wants to bring in X amount or, or contribute 50 percent or a hundred percent doesn't matter.

But if I haven't said that out loud,  then my husband could have totally different expectations. Could be I thought I was sitting at home or sitting at home, working hard at home with my kids. And he thought he was earning all the money or the opposite. And it doesn't work because. He's like, Oh, well, I thought I'd burn half and you'd earn half. 

We have to talk about that. There's something that I bring up that I don't really see in many other places is this whole financial security thing. Like what makes me feel financially secure?  And you got this couple that I give as an example. I mentioned them in the book also.  They've been married 20 years. 

And he has a business and the business has ups and downs, but overall he does well and he brings home money every month, mostly.  And she's always stressed and he's like, we live a great life. We have a great lifestyle. I do most of the earning. I have this business. It's doing well. Like why is she always stressed?

Why doesn't she appreciate? And there's 20 years of built up frustration in that comment. Okay.  And. I come in and I just ask what you need to feel financially secure and he's like my business, you know I know it's doing well and I know it's fine and it's secure and that's what I need and she says Three to six months of living expenses. 

I'm like like that. He's like, oh if I'd have known that I'd have provided that Okay, we can do that. She now has three to six months of living expenses sitting in her bank account as a buffer. So then the months that he, his business is low, she's not like, where's the money? I can't pay for the kids, this and that.

It's there. And it sounds so simple.  Most people have not discussed it. Most people have not discussed it. So that's what the book's coming to do, is like really get those 20 questions fine tuned, discuss it with each other. I'm giving pointers of like, you know, after you've discussed with each other's pointers.

Okay. To like, help you both define this, how you apply it to your lives. And I really hope it'll be a game changer for a lot of couples.  I'm sure it will be, you know, I think I'm thinking of just so many couples that have a different dynamic than their parents and their grandparents, just because of the nature of the life that we live in, right?

Like now is so easy to open up a digital business and to do the thing. You know, you have all these people who are like knitters or crocheters making a ton of money online just by sharing their patterns. And it's like. What do you mean you make more money than I do? You know, like I have a real job and you do  nothing all day, but you do something, you know, and that just the whole dynamic has been changing and nobody is, is talking about it.

Nobody is.  Giving the tools. Nobody's validating the fact that we are not living in the same generation as our parents and there's a lot more opportunities. Like you said, people change jobs all the time. There is this, you know, pull to become that our parents and grandparents didn't feel like they just like, Oh, it's fine.

As long as I'm provided, as long as I'm doing my job, as long as I'm okay. Like, I'm just going to keep going, keep going, keep going. We have something different. There's something about the air that we're breathing, the, you know, time of, of redemption. I don't know what to, what to blame it on, but we have something like that's pulling us to become and.

That pull is creating a lot of really awesome things. Like, you know, all these women going and having, you know, both a family and a career or, you know, being able to shine in a different way. And sometimes husbands who are just like, but I was just thinking I was going to do the thing, you know, like, and then the wife sort of passes them in self development and money and something.

And it's like,  why am I married to a loser? You know, I'm a married to a guy who doesn't want to change, who doesn't want to grow, who doesn't want to see life the way I see it. It's like, there's nothing wrong with him. You're the one who's changing the dance. Right? So don't be so hard on him. He's not the loser.

He's actually doing his job. He's doing a great job being himself. You know, give him the space. Let's work on that belief of like, what's going on? Why do you feel this way? You know? And I think the questions that you bring up are just so important.  In order for us to feel okay with the different dynamics in our homes with what works for us as a couple, right?

Like I was guilty for a long time. I felt very uncomfortable around my friends because my husband makes supper and I'm sitting outside playing with the kids and they're like, Oh, what should I make for supper? I'm so stressed. I don't know, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like. Whatever, like whatever shows up at my table, I'll eat, you know, I'm in charge of lunch, I'm not in charge of supper, right?

So they would, I would, I would just feel so uncomfortable. And then one day someone said like. Why are you feeling so uncomfortable? Like it's working for you, you know, you and your husband are fine with it. Like, this is part of your values. Like you're both working together and you're getting the house in order.

Like things are, you know, food is at the  table on time. Why do you have to feel so bad and so broken about something that's working? And I realized, yeah, it's really that comparison thing where it's like, I think I should be a certain way. And I'm not.  Right? No, so the book was for the questions, and the book bring that up.

Like, I should be making money, but I'll feel bad if I don't. Or, I don't want to be making money, but, you know, like, it brings up these questions so that we know where the other one's sitting with them. Which, which just sounds so obvious, and yet, I'm telling you, 90 percent of couples, at least that I've met, don't discuss these things.

Just sort of, oh, this is what works out and it's fine if it's fine, but it's not always fine for both people, you know, and Yeah, so I'm really excited about that actually, about that project. I'm really working hard on it now to really get this out there and  Yeah, and help people not have that guilt and just be on the same page in marriage with their money  That's amazing.

How can people find you and make sure that they hear about the book when it comes out?  RifkaLiebowitz. com or Facebook, Living Financially Smarter in Israel, that's for your viewers that are in Israel. Join the Facebook group, that's where it's all happening. Also Living Financially Smarter on Instagram, much less active there.

But certainly I will be promoting it there when it, when the time comes.  That's amazing. Thank you so much for being with us.  Thank you. I think that we really addressed a lot, you know, and it's been really a pleasure. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for hosting me.  And thank you for the listeners.

Make sure you come back next week as we start talking about food and all the different pillars, food and God, food and money, food and marriage, food and business and food and you, which is really fascinating.  And that's it! Thank you for listening to the very end. I would love if you can leave a review and subscribe to the podcast. Those are things that tell the algorithm this is a good podcast and make sure to suggest it to others. Wouldn't it be amazing if more people became more connected for real?  And now take a moment and think of someone who might benefit from this episode. 

Can you share it with them?  I am Robinson Bat chen Grossman from  connectedforreal. com. Thank you so much for listening and don't forget you can be connected for real.