127. Parenting With The Shefer Approach

  Welcome to the Connected For Real podcast. I'm Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman, a marriage coach for women in business. And my mission is to bring God's presence into your life, into your marriage and into your business. Let's get started. 

 And we are live. Welcome everyone to the connected for real podcast. I'm Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman. And today with me is Chagit Zelcer, and we're talking about parenting and marriage, and this is going to be fascinating because Chagit is awesome. So first thing we have to do is Chagit, introduce yourself.

 Hi, Bat Chen. It's great to be here. And Hi to all our viewers. I am Hagit Zelzer parenting coach in the Sheffer Approach. I also do private consults and groups. And as you see, I do it in English as well as in Hebrew. 

I've created an online parenting course in the Approach where I work with parents one on one as they. Go through the course with me. And actually I also am trained to work with couples in couple relationships. So the connection between parenting and the marriage, which is  one is connected to the other.

It's intertwined makes the understanding of the dynamics  easier to work with. And that's what I do. I help parents feel good about their parenting because they should.  And I try to help couples work out situations that,  they're stuck in. Sometimes they're similar, but it's not it's not something that one necessarily depends on the other, even though they're connected. 

And there are different dynamics  in a couple's relationship.  As opposed to parents and children, there's a very popular phrase that we have in Hebrew. It's Tzar Gidul Ba'alim in in the vein of Tzar Gidul Banim, where we have the sorrow of raising children. And very cynically, it's also been adapted to raising our husbands, which is something that No, it's not. 

It's the husband is an equal partner in raising our children. He's not someone that we have to raise, criticize, judge, or correct all the time. We learn how to work out things that we are not in agreement with, but it's very different from raising our children. We, we're, as parents, We lead and our Children follow as a couple.

We are joint.  We are partners. We're in this together  and everyone has their  say. If it's not the same say, we find a way to work out.  How it can work. And that's what I do. I love it. I'm passionate about it.  It's It's a mission that I feel that will really make the world a better place. I've seen it happen, and I'm just ready to talk to anybody about the approach, about parenting, about couples relationships.

And I'm glad to be here to do it with you. Love it.  I love it. So let me just give you a little bit of background. First of all,  we've gone live before together and I found it just so fascinating and so much fun to talk about, and I have done the Sheffer method here in my local community with an amazing Sheffer instructor  and Sheffer is.

An approach. It's not really a method. It's an entire approach. And that's one of the things that sort of got me hooked because when you come in and  you have a room full of, you know, I wrote an email about this, a room full of bad mothers, you know, everybody thinks they're a bad mother.  Yeah, but that's how they're  convinced from day one.

We are all convinced from day one. We walk into this room and there is 15 women sitting around the circle and every single one thinks she's a bad mother. And you know, Sheffer comes and says, there's no such thing. There's no such thing as a good mother. There's no such thing as a bad mother. You just are a mother.

You are the mother, right? And that feels really validating and it feels It's frees you from having to judge yourself. Am I being good or am I being bad? You're not being anything. You're just being right. Like allow yourself to be. I think that for me was the number one thing that got me hooked. And the second thing that really, really turned me on to this method is that, you know, our instructor said.

Your husband doesn't have to agree with you.  You can have your opinion and he can have his opinion or you can have your way of parenting and he can have his way of parenting and you don't have to be on the same wavelength. You don't have to be on the same line. And I was like, what?  What is all this noise about everybody having to be on the same, you know, let's all be on the same page here.

And you're trying to get your husband onto your page. And he's like, no, I'm not on your page. And you're like, well, you have to, because we have to be on the same page together. World war three,  world war three, totally. And, and my husband was never on the same page with me when it comes to parenting.

He always was, you know, a little bit more cynical than I was. And I'm very, you know, Oh, positive, emotional. Yay. You know, mommy and he's very daddy. And so it's like very different, right? Like, why was I trying so hard wasting all of my energy, wasting all of my emotional drainage. Everything to try to get someone on my page when in reality, I was just free to say, Oh, okay, he doesn't have to be that was very freeing for me.

As soon as we learned that it changed my whole relationship with my own husband, because I was no longer trying to force him out of his box.  Force him into your box. Let me rephrase that. Force him into your box. Exactly. Exactly. Not only do I need him out of his box, I need him in my box. Not any other box, right? 

Totally. Like if you would only agree with me, everything would be just great.  I know. 

Can I can I just relate to something where you started with the first when you met the Schaeffer approach? And as you noted, it is not a method, it's an approach and an approach is how you see things. It's not like, you know, a tip to do this or tip to do that. We do help people with different how we have to deal with it, but it's not as an, as in the tip it's when, when we learn first, before we talk about what to do or not to do.

We learn how to look at the situation, and when you look at it through different eyes, like really put on a different lenses, different glasses, then you understand it differently. And once you understand it differently, your actions are in accordance. Now, what you describe is that room full of 15 mothers who feel like they are the worst mothers.

And this was, you will probably recall, the first lesson. The first lesson, the opening session of any Schaeffer Approach Workshop is about confidence in our parenting. It's not   being the dictator in the house. But rather confidence in our authority as a parent.

We have the authority and we should be confident in our authority. And when we are confident in our authority, we don't have to walk around all day and saying, Hey, I'm the leader. I'm the leader. It's an inner feeling that we have because when we have it, our kids  have censors that I'm sure that the Israeli army would be more than happy to to use. They will probably be able to find all the hostages and, you know, get rid of all the Hamas nicks if they would have the censors that children have regarding where their parents mindset and heart set is and and when the parent is in that situation of being confident of his authority, he doesn't have to use authority.

And he doesn't have to make boundaries as clearly. There are boundaries in our lives, usually, but they don't have to talk about it all the time. And I think what the key to that is, actually, that the parent has a role.  And it's a God given role.  So, when the parent, where does he get his confidence from?

Because he's been given this role from none other than God.  And God who runs the world and he controls every blade of grass that grows, he certainly knows who to give who to, meaning , which parent belongs to which child or which child belongs to which parent. So that, that feeling of like, you know I, I should be doing a better job.

Like other parents are so much more capable and so much more whatever.  It's okay. Chill out. God knows what he's doing. We can rely on him, and he relies on us. I mean, you know that someone's relying on you. You're confident,  right?   I, I love that. Let's just, you know, double tap that for a second. , when I was unsure about, you know, who am I to run this business? Who am I to go into this thing? Who am I to become a marriage coach for women in business? Right, right. And the answer that I got, from my journaling and my meditation was, who are you not to. If God made you do this and gave you this job, right? You got your, you know, this is your job right now. And you're like,  it's your mission. Yeah. Who am I not to do this? Like, who do I think I have to say? No, thanks.  That's it. So it's totally accurate. That's what that's I very often. I feel that like, you got something that is  going to help the world.

And at this point, you don't even have a choice. You don't.  It's, it's just go out there and do it and you know, whoever doesn't want to take it, it's his choice. But be there for them and be there with what you have to offer because  you never know which family is going to get so much from it, and it could even come to the point of saving a marriage. 

I'd like to know, relate to something that you said about  the husband and the wife not seeing things the same way. And  you went on to describe your own interaction with your husband regarding the children, where he's more cynical or chilled out, and you're the emotional, Hey!

You know, this is not new. Women from Venus, men from Mars, men and women see things differently. And not only in regarding parenting, it's, that's the world, that's life.  And it's fine because that makes the world what it is. That's what makes a family, what it is. Very often varying opinions are give the child tools to deal with.

With my pocket. How do we say that in English? With different differing opinions,  which child will will come across that. In his, as he grows up, it will be at work, it will be in school, it will be in social circles where you, you know, not everybody's always going to think the same and not always think the same as him.

And he will also learn how he can agree with other people despite that he didn't think so at the beginning. And he can be open to other opinions.  This eventually helps him, the child himself, build a better marriage relationship when the day arrives. Towards his future and because, you know, it's not it's, it's, well, the life is multicolored.

It's and everything is so,  you know, the, the beauty is that  when you think we have to be on the same page because the kids need to see that we're on the same, you know, you know, frontline and blah, blah, blah. It's like, We look at the kid as a very flat type of person, right? It's like he will only understand if we are,  United and if we are in the same thing and if we are on the same line But  really know your kid like you said they have such sensors They know way more than we think they know they understand the world way better And they can pick up on the differences.

So when you do something just because you feel like you have to, because some person told you that you have to be on the same line or whatever, they know. Right. And when you're authentic and you're respectful and you're able to stand up for whatever you think, even when other people aren't in the same line, I don't agree.

You know, one of the funniest things that happened was early, early on. I went to a parenting class how to talk to your kids. So they listen and listen. So they talk, it was, I think it was like level one of Sheffer, like it was the opening statement. You know, I, I went into it, I learned a lot and then.

I, you know, and then when I learned Shefer, I was like, Oh, it's along the same lines. This is deeper. So anyway, I come home and I start having this new like language, this new approach, this new thing. And my husband's like, it's never going to work. You know, what are you trying to do? It's never going to work.

And I was like, you know what? I'm in this class. I'm trying the things and who knows, maybe it will work. And with time, he was seeing me doing it  And one day he turned around and said, okay, could you just use your magic and make this stop? You know, like basically he doesn't know how to do it. He doesn't think it's going to work, but we obviously proved that it works.

So can you do your magic and make that space to do your thing?   He didn't come and say, well, you know, I don't agree. So we shouldn't do this because I don't think it's gonna work and you on the other hand didn't say well You have to come on board with me no matter what  And that's it.

Children dealing with different outlooks   is very basic. It's so true what you say that  the concept that the parents have to be in total agreement actually is derives from the, belief that the child can't deal. He's very, you said, flat that he can't deal with  diversity.

And again, I would even say dumb. You know, we don't think the child can can handle it, right? But  really, what we talk about  in the Schaeffer approach is that contrary to the concept, the belief that the child is very vulnerable and very sensitive, that we have to be very careful of how we present things to him.

And so we have to have that You know, front, the United Front, et cetera, et cetera. No, the child can deal with just about everything. Children are much more resilient than we give them credit for. And  if our starting point is that the child can't handle it, then we're always second guessing ourselves and always trying to be that user friendly, person or persona in their life that will protect them, will protect them and cuddle them, coddle them rather and cuddle.

Cuddling is nice. We love cuddling our kids, but don't do it because he's weak. Do it because you love him. That's it. Because you just, you like the cuddling and the, you know, we're good. It's fine. And yeah, I love, I love it that she said. She said, when you're in school and the teacher, instead of the teacher walking in, there's a substitute.

Don't you think the kids know,  you know, don't you think that they know the difference between the teacher and the substitute, how many of us, even very, very early on, Knew exactly what we were allowed and not allowed to do. Once there was a substitute in the room, right? You start chewing gum, you start changing your names, you start playing games, you, you become a totally different kid because you're dealing with a different person.

So why are we expecting our kids to not see the difference between. Mommy and daddy, you know, like what, what is this? What is our needs? Like, why are we so grabby about having to control a child's  view of the world? When in reality, he's completely capable of understanding that you're different people and that there's different rules for each one. 

Well, because we're told that if the starting point is that the child is very weak and vulnerable, then the person who's in charge, as you say, control of making sure that everything. you know, works right, is the parent, which puts the parent into that situation of always trying to make sure everything is okay and working and from there, they're never doing enough because the responsibility is on the parent and the child is, you know, the week never that we, you know, we can't rely on him to deal with siblings who are with a sibling who nudges him or, you know gives him a hard time or friends that, you know, social situations, whatever it is.

Everybody has their trials and tribulations when they grow up. And the question is, if the parents are responsible to control the trials and tribulations of a child, or if the child will be able to, as he goes along, learn from it, and even if he has a hard time or fails at something, that's part of growing up. 

And, and trying this is actually essentially what happens is if the parent is constantly in charge, then the child is Is remains a child today. Even we have the there's a there's a song in Hebrew. Hi, Ellen. The bench machine, the child, the 30 year old is called the child. We have today proof of that.

The proof is in the pudding. 30 year olds who still living in their parents homes still don't have careers and aren't supporting themselves properly.  Marriage is like an option that they can't even think about because  you know, it means so much responsibility. It entails taking on like a whole world of it.

And part of it is because today's kids who are already adults. But they also hear that parents are in charge of making sure that their kids lives are perfect. So who needs this?  It's like we're going into a couple of generations already of this mantra, which all started The child is sensitive and anything could effective.

Eventually I've had parents who've done my course and I've, when they speak, they speak about  their dynamics with their children and situations. More than once. I've had, I've had, I've heard from parents who say, well, I'll tell you, I am just afraid that my child will be at the psychologist at the age of 30 or 40 and talk about what My parents did wrong.

And I'm trying to prevent that. And I told them, you know what? I'm not here to help you with that because there is no way, there's no way that you could prevent anything happen in your child's life. You give him everything you can, but you can't cause things to happen. You can't cause him to behave a certain way.

It will always be his choice, how he deals with the situation, how he grows up, and , it's mind boggling because I hear this from people who are  educated, intelligent,  they run systems like, you know huge companies and  they're considered very capable, but when it comes to  that interaction with the child, they become so helpless.

And so at a loss and just this fear of what the child is going to say at the age of 30, the psychologist.  This is not what we were, we're supposed to do it, we're supposed to be at, as you know, we had a friend we, we used to get a ride to school with, you know, with the other family and this woman was hysterical.

She would make jokes the whole way to school. And one of the things she always said was, it is my job to give you enough material so that when you go to the psychologist and talk about me, you'll have what to talk about. And it cracked us up, you know, because she was not afraid of, what are you going to say about me when you're 30?

She was saying, I'm doing my job. I'm being your mother and you're going to have plenty to talk about if you really want to, right? Like. There is  millions of things that you can bring up with a psychologist, even in a healthy relationship with a mother, because she's your mother and she's gets to be that person you blame for everything.

And she gets to be that person who you're annoyed at for everything that happened in your life. That's just normal. It's natural. And you know, when I, when I talk to my mother, I tell her like, I love you so much for letting me, you know, have you as, as my, My scapegoat, you know,  I could be in a, in a group and people are talking about, Oh, my mother didn't let me do this or that, you know, I don't let my kids go on sleepover parties. It's one of the rules that I just put down one day. I was so sick of it. They asked me every day. I was annoyed already. I said, no sleepover parties ever. Not that's it done. And really, only if there's a really good reason. And my husband like really tells me, okay, okay, this one's different.

Fine. So I'll let, but like, for the most part, they already know not to ask  And one of the girls was like already more grown up. She said, it's, it was so annoying when we were growing up that you didn't let us go to sleepovers and everybody else was sleeping over at each other's house and blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then she turns around and said in the same exact sentence, and you know what? It was probably a good thing. You didn't let us, because now that I'm older and I hear all the stories of what happened in the sleepover parties, I say to myself.  My mother really knew what she was talking about, right? So it was in one sentence where she was complaining about how annoying it was, and then went straight into why it was a good idea and why she thanks me now for being the mother I am.

And if I didn't have the confidence to just put my foot down and say that's it, I'm done. I'm not doing this. I would have been  stepped all over. Like they were just doing their own thing and making their own decision is just crazy. So I'm, I'm very grateful that I had. The Schaeffer approach.

I'll tell you, I was pregnant with my number five when I did the approach. And at that point I had four girls  and I was expecting a boy and everybody. Everybody  was going to tell me like I knew it. I knew what was gonna come right? Oh, you just wait Oh my gosh, the boy is coming He's gonna  turn your house upside down and it's going to be a totally different experience You don't know what boys are like and blah blah blah and and I think that it was God's gift to me to go through the 20 sessions of Scheffer and then give birth right at the end and Right.

Like when we were done, I mean, yeah, it was perfect timing. And at the, at the circumcision, I'm sitting there with the brand new baby. Right. And people are coming to me word for word. You don't even know, you just wait, you only know girls. This is a boy, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Yeah, it's going to be great. Ha ha ha. Isn't it nice. And it didn't hit me. Like it was as if I had. Already created the protective mechanism just by changing my approach and knowing that I'm not falling for any of this. Like I am just letting my kid be a kid and all my kids, like, you know, and when you think about it, I have four girls, they're all so different.

Right. So having a boy and telling me that, Oh, he's so different than girls, different than which girl, the one who used to climb on trees or the one that would make a big mess or the one that was artistic, like which one of them is he different from, you know? And so it just really, it really set me up for success. 

That's, that's amazing. I want to relate to something that you said about when you described the sleepovers where. You made a decision that was right for you.  And, and what was important, what really  struck me as you describe it, is that you were sure of it. You, it was clear to you. It's not that sleepovers are good or not good.

This is not what, in the Sheffer approach, we don't talk to people.  That's making what decision to make for your family. There's some families that are good with that. But the minute that you decided that this is your attitude and this is your decision and you were whole with it, then you were able to, to run it.

And that's, that's the point where you, you are confident in your authority to run it. Make decisions that your children should abide by, and that it is clear to you that once you decide this, it's, it's law, it's the law. That's what it is. And, What you continue to say is how your daughter reacted to that and gave you that input and it's interesting the other whole concept of how children react to their parents decisions or a way of doing things or you know, general chinuch things that that they deal with 

 educational approach the educational approach right and And you'll have families Where we have two parents in the regular two parent family situation and a few kids, each child will, years later or even before that, will be able to give his angle of how, of what the parents way of educating how it affected them.

One will say, you'll, for instance you'll, you'll have parents who are very active in the community and they are busy with things outside of the house also. And you'll have one child saying that Oh, you know, they ignored us because they were busy helping other people, in their position and others who will say that we are so proud of them and they grow up to do exactly the same thing that their parents, that the parents did. 

We see this, it's all so subjective and the parent trying to please everyone's subjective view is like, it's endless. It's endless. There's, there's,  there's no, there's no hope that it could work.  There are like situations where you see a child who's a troubled youth teenager, for instance I've heard this description of I live in the Golan Heights near the Kinneret, so every summer at the, there's like a whole like pilgrimage of youth who come to hang out.  That's the word for it. Just hang out near the canary, there's water, there's a sea, there's like, you know, it's just like chilling out after the school year, whatever, and many of them are also troubled and have issues and we even have people who come who try to come and talk to them and help them.

I won't go into my, my opinion of this whole running to talk to them and helping them, but I've heard insights from people , who heard from many, many of these troubled youth, and they're also on the streets of Yerushalayim and in different places where they say, well, you know, I'm, you know, I'm on the street today.

I'm, I'm, just, you know, not not connected to anything. I'm in the rebellion stage because my parents were so  not they didn't validate me enough. They didn't give me enough. They didn't give me enough attention, enough love, enough this and of that. And you ask them about their siblings and they'll describe siblings or if you know the family and you see that there are siblings who are totally see things whole different way.

 And that's where Well, we have to understand. It's not like you can't please all the people all the time, just some of the people some of the time, don't even try.  Parents are not here to please their children. They're here to fill a role. They're here to lead. And if a child decides that, you know, a child starts judging if his parents did the job right,  good enough, then  he's, he's on the fast track to self destruction at the end, because actually it's, it's, it's giving him the, the basis for lack of, of strength in his source where he came from  as a child.

If you can't it's what the concept of respecting and honoring our parents, what we call kibbud horim. If we give that place of honor to our parents, we're actually honoring our basis, where we grew up from. And that gives us As a child, the strength also,  as opposed to criticizing, judging, and telling the psychologist that my parents were totally off.

They didn't do this. They didn't do that. They didn't give me enough. And that's, that's something that's become very very  popular, very in, very acceptable.  When we see that it's Western culture.  Endorses it, encourages it it hasn't brought really any good to the world. If anybody, you know, would stop to just notice.

But no one's stopping to notice. That's what we're here for. We help people stop notice in their own family, in their own community, and with their own children.  And it makes a change. It makes a difference. It will make a difference in the world. And it starts, really, it starts in the home with each parent, in each family, with our individual children.

And the, the understanding the place of everyone's special position in the stance where he belongs, in the family structure is the, Is the key is the key to everything.  And good, you know, organization. In any organization. If you have all the workers.  Saying what we should do as opposed to the CEO  who knows how to lead,  then, you know,  it'll crash. 

It will become what we call dysfunctional. The concept dysfunctional family has been like  totally like over the past  20, years. It's, it's a concept that we use  cheaply.  It means that if it's not functioning, it's not functioning because the system isn't working like  any system in any so called machine. 

Right. Okay. So because we don't have much time, but I really want to get into this.

There's a lot of people who see  parenting is more urgent, right? Dealing with the children's issues and all of the things that are, you know, falling apart around you, the overwhelm, there's, you know, a bunch of kids and they all need different things. And then. Marriage sort of comes second because, eh, like, you know, he's around, he'll be around for a while, like, it's not really on fire. 

So, what do you think about, you know, where to put your energies first? Well, that's amazing. It's amazing that you're asking me this question right now. Because just yesterday, I was listening to a podcast of the head of the Sheffer Merkas Sheffer, the Sheffer Institute in Yerushalayim, where I trained and they teach Sheffer counselors. She also Does parenting and couples relationship and she was asked the same question, so I can just quote her name is a metal. Had that Missouri and it's important to say the name of the person you're quoting  in Judaism, right where we will bring the redemption to the world.

And she, she said.  Absolutely. First, the couple,  because when the couples I'll explain when the whole attitude that we have towards the pressure of raising our Children is based on the child being in the center.  Now, when the child in the center is, of course, we're busy with them all the time.

When we're not busy physically, we're busy emotionally thinking about it, busy, you know, Yeah. Trying to figure out what to do, what not to do, whatever. It keeps us busy 24 7. Now, that's when the child is in the center.  And when he's in the center, then what happens to our spouse? What happens to our partner? 

Which is exactly your question.  We lose the, you know, we sort of  get put to the side. And well, you know, when the kids grow up, we'll, you know, we'll start getting together, getting our act together. But it's not what we should be doing. Because when the kids grow up, then you have that.

The famous emptiness, like, who is this guy that I'm, you know, I'm stuck with. We're not busy with the kids anymore. And now we just have each other and like, what, who are you? What, where, where'd you come from? And the, the concept that if the child is not in the center,  meaning we are here to lead the children, to nurture them, to raise them, but we are, we are also, we are.

Before we had our Children, we had our partner, and this partner is the person that we brought the Children to the world with. And he's he's here. It's like he's here to stay. I mean, it's God willing, right? And here to stay. But he's here from the beginning. He's Like I say, partner, partners is a very good word.

And when you work together  and when you work on your dynamics, your relationship with your partner, then you're not focused all the time on kids, kids, kids. We're over focused on our Children.  And when I say that, I don't mean ignore the Children. I mean, stop focusing on them. There's a world of difference.

Stop for a minute and think of like the daily what goes on in our life. How much do we think about what we are doing with our Children? How much do we think about what we're doing with our partner?  And that That says it all.  And how much energy we put in just, you know, make a graph, make a, some kind of a list of,  and it's not, it's more than that weekly date.

It's that mindset.  I'm here with him. We started with this together and we're in this together. And  when you're not focused on your children, you can do that. And then actually  how does that affect what happens with our children? It's because we have, what we discussed, At the beginning now,  we started talking is the difference of opinion when we work on our connection with our partner.

 The differences of opinion are  less present in our relationship and  it's smooth sailing, smoother sailing, nothing's perfect,  but we already have the tools. We have the tools to deal with the children and we are able to really, when we've built our relationship, put in a lot into our relationship with our spouses, our partners. 

Yes, I love it that you said he was here first and here he's here to stay right a lot of times that's not very clear and we Fall into that trap of but the kids, you know, the kids are the most important and then what wait what you know? No, no, no, they're not Yeah, and I want to remind everyone that when  you want to Help your kids and you want to give them the best childhood they can have and the best life that they can have Give them happy parents because that unity and that ability to communicate and connect and solve conflicts and be respectful to each other that Is going to give them more than you know, if you tried giving them that  divorce from You Actually modeling it it would never land the same way it would never land the same way You can't teach someone how to respect if you can't show respect to your husband You can't teach someone how to resolve a conflict without resolving a conflict in front of them Right or even not in front of them It's these are skills that you are gifting your children when you're focusing on your marriage and I am so You heated up about this because I see how many people make that mistake. 

Totally.  I'd like to add onto that, that we, you said we could, we teach the children how to resolve conflicts, but you know what? We, we also teach when sometimes we can't resolve a conflict. Couples who are married and they see things totally differently, whether it's a question of values, it's a question of religious level, whether it's a question of political beliefs or whatever it is.

Parents, they don't get along. What a child learns from the parents that don't get along, meaning that they are not in agreement. I'd like to make that clear. A child learns that there are different opinions. And that there was somebody there when we, as a, as a, as a couple realized that There is a legitimate opinion that is different from my own and that's fine  and we live with that because this child is going to Encounter more than one situation where their opinions are different from his own.

So is he gonna fight it? Is he gonna cry? Is he going to just you know, go go? Into into a fit about it,  it's this is something that as I think it's, it's one of the most basic in the shepherd approach regarding couples relationship that there is somebody on the other side, you know, our partner here who may have a different opinion, and it's totally his prerogative to have a different opinion. 

 Not everybody has to think exactly like us. It's impossible. We don't marry ourselves. We marry somebody else who very often has different opinions. I can tell you from my own experience, I married Ruch Hashem 45 years  to an amazing person who we different, we are totally different from each other.

And I found that over the years, The less that I tried convincing him that I'm right, the more I became convinced that he's always right at the  end. and there are things that he, he also went over to my like line of thinking, but it just not, not by way of working at it and, and forcing. 

 The minute you are in a mindset that the other side's opinion is legitimate.  You realize that you have laid the basis for him to think the same thing about you.  Because that's what the ideal couple relationship is. Not meeting in the middle 50%.  It's every side giving 100%. So when I, when my husband differs from me completely, and I say, you know what? 

I I accept that you have your opinion. I've gone over 100 percent to his side and he has done that and I've set the set the stage for him to do the same thing with me. And like I say, 45 years of experience, it works. So,  but the basis is, that's what respect, when we say respect the other side.

We learned to take a step back. We're taking a step back. We do with our kids also, not  as in the sense of respecting and rather rather not trying to control. There's a very strong connection.  We try to control our husbands. We try to control our children. Really, it's how many mothers have you spoken to who tell you that they are just drained and tired because working on control is very, very tiring, very draining.

Yes, and you know what, isn't it amazing because there is, you know, there's a God out there who is the orchestrator  of all, and all you need to do is just let it go, cause God is in control. Let go and let God. Let go and let God. This is the, it's, it's so basic and  it's so liberating. Totally. When, at the end, when you realize that it's not, On you, you know, you don't have to recreate your husband.

God created him already. And you know what  he created him just for you. And if you think that something  has to be different,  maybe he'll change only when he decides not when you control it. I've changed dramatically.  So has my husband, but not when the other side forced it, when it was.  When it was his choice, our choice, and that is God, you know, if you think God made a mistake with this husband, take it up with God, your husband, go,  go pray, right?

Exactly.  Go, go talk to him. He's the one who really made it all happen.  You know file a suit in court in heavenly court, but nobody wants to get there so quickly. Anyway. No, but really that's what I talk about when I speak about God baggage, you know, a lot of us are We are annoyed with our marriage or annoyed with our parenting or why did I get this kid or why did I get this husband?

Or you know something here is wrong god. You got it wrong. You didn't really understand right?  And it's like wait, wait, wait, wait, this isn't anything to do with anything else but god baggage What we have You know holding like all of the  the evidence and the stories and the things that we have against god and when you're able to At least be willing to have a conversation with god This is when things really turn around and I love it  one of my pillars in my program is god god  as the creator of the universe and the one who wants a relationship with you.

So all he wants is for you to turn around and say, I don't understand. And I want you to tell me what's going on. I want you to tell me what to do next. And.  People get answers. People get answers. We do a meditation. We get answers. You get mind blowing results when you take it to the right source. And so this is something that I'm really passionate about.

And I love that we're bringing this up, tying it all together, right? Because we are talking about parenting. We are talking about marriage. These are gigantic relationships that we're dealing with. And at the end of the day, we have to realize that these  all  have god at the core god is the one who put you here To be married to this person to be this person's mother, you know to have to deal with these situations and if you Disconnect from that and say no I need to control it.

I need to make it the way I need it to be I need I am now completely done, like disconnected, overwhelmed, exhausted, drained, all the things because it's just not worth it. It's not the way things are meant to be. So thank you for wrapping it all up for us.  I'd like just to add one, one small thing. That's very, very important also in the Schaeffer approach, we talk about, the concept of choice,  being able to choose.

Like you say, God  has the master plan. At the end of the day, he gave us choice. We can choose how we react to our children's behavior. We can choose how we act  to our husbands, to what happens with our spouses. It could be husband, wife, wife, husband. And  that is the control that we do have because saying, well, I'm not in control.

You know, God take over, you know, take care of my kids. No, God gave us the choice. And this is as a shepherd counselor and in the approach, we help people. Go towards the choice that will make life best for them.  I'm here to , help parents. I'm not here to change kids, not, not help them and not help them change their kids.

Just help them enjoy their parenting and like, enjoy being married to the person that you chose, that you were so madly in love with that you, you, you know, you couldn't see anything except for him. And this is something that it's a gift.  Because, you know, we have to talk to God. We have to let go and then we have to take responsibility for how we deal with what he gave us.

But he relies on us. So he relies on us to build a family with that person that we've chosen. And God willing, like they say, God willing, God wills it. And we are here to choose, to choose the best way to do it and be, be able to really make the world a better place.  I love it. Yes. God wills it. And you get a choice if you want to show up or not.

That's beautiful. I love that. I love it. Thank you so much. Chagit. How can people get in touch with you? How can people work with you? Okay, so, I have a online course, Shefer course, it's called, and it's available, you can find it on the web, and my phone, could I give my phone number is sure, okay so it's 050 771 0804,  always happy to hear from you, from anybody who wants to to hear more about the course.

I also have, you will see, I have a blog where I, in the course site that you will find the, on the internet there's a blog where I have published many, many, many insights on parenting and different concepts and situations, and I'm happy to share that with you always available.

And like I noted at the beginning, I had just finished translating a book which was actually written by another Shefer counselor in Hebrew. And I took it to the English level. I like to think I took it to another level because it's really become In English, it's universal. And we will be going to print, God willing, in a  week or two, hopefully.

Within a month or so, it will be out on the on the market. And I will be, of course, Facebook, I will be showing up on Facebook with it. The name of the book, actually, is right now,  The name in Hebrew is Imun, in English means trust.  We haven't finalized the name of the book, but look for the word trust, you'll find it.

It's going to be there. Trust your parent, parenting, trust your child, trust yourself. That's what it's all about. And you could also email me at chagit  @chagit.co.il for any information. And also Getting the first lesson of the course, the online course is available free just to get a feel of the vibe of how it works.

And that includes meeting with me for a short session of getting to know each other. And then you decide if you want to go for the entire course,  no obligations, but I'm happy to talk to any parent who feels that he wants to  upgrade. Just find the joy in parenting. That's what it's about. Thank you so much, Bat-Chen

I've really enjoyed talking to you. I always enjoy talking about Schaeffer, but I know that talking to you has given, gives it like a new focus, always. Ah, thank you.  It was really a pleasure having you and you guys listening. Thank you so much for coming back and listening for another episode. Make sure you stay tuned because we come out with an episode every Monday and sometimes every Thursday too.

So look out for that. But the guest episodes are always on Monday. So yes, thank you so much. Thank you for for joining us and don't forget to be connected for real.

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Can you share it with them?  I am Robinson Bat chen Grossman from  connectedforreal. com. Thank you so much for listening and don't forget you can be connected for real.