138. Dating as an Older Single

Heather Dean is an author, sought-after public speaker, and media interview consultant, who started off with a glamorous broadcasting career and lifestyle, and decided to leave all of that for an authentically Jewish life in Israel with her husband and children. Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman is a marriage coach for women in business. In her LIVE show and the "Connected For Real" Podcast, she interviews amazing women to enhance all the parts of our life: Specifically the four pillars: G-d, Marriage, Business, & You. Join them in talking about preparing for marriage as an older single. 

  Welcome to the Connected For Real podcast. I'm Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman, a marriage coach for women in business. And my mission is to bring God's presence into your life, into your marriage and into your business. Let's get started. 

 And we are live. Welcome everyone to the Connected for Real podcast. I'm Robertson Batran Grossman and today with me is Heather Dean and we're talking about dating and marriage and it's all about,  let's do it. We're going to get right into it. I'm not even going to tell you what it's all about because we're just going to get right into it.

Okay. First thing I want is introduce yourself and then we'll get into the topic.  Great, great. I'm so happy to be here, and it's always nice to see you, Badkhain. Really, really nice. And it's nice to be with everybody who's watching the live stream, watching the recording. Hello, hello. Okay, so I am Heather Dean.

I am a podcaster of a weekly podcast called 613 Books, and it is a podcast designed for book lovers, book readers, book buyers, who Love a variety of books with authentic jewish values So you are welcome to join me on 613 book podcast every week and we interview different authors and that's so so so exciting so speaking of books, I wrote one myself that was published in 2019 And I would have loved to appear on a podcast like mine But there aren't so many outlets for jewish authors out there But hey, when your book comes out, you must be in touch with me.

I know it's going to be awesome So, so the way that I got here was always having something to do with media. That is my career. It's always been with media, even right out of college when I was interning with MTV I got hired right away and it's just been off and running ever since then, since I was working in New York city, always working in broadcasting and eventually publications. 

And I was just. By trade, still am an interviewer. So back then at MTV and the E! Channel and AP Radio, I used to interview celebrities for a living. Nice work if you can get it, and it was so fun. So I wrote about that in my memoir why I walked away from all that. And it's to have this conversation in the Holy Land of Israel as a Jew who lives a Torah centered life.

So, I use all of my media experience and skills for good. Not instead of evil working in Jewish media. And in fact, I'm working on a movie right now, not a movie I produced, but a movie that we're working on the media outreach strategy. So it's all good. It's all good when you can use your skillset for the good of the Jewish people, for the good of the world. 

Yes, I love it. I love it. And you know, I always say, don't divorce yourself from your previous self, you know, just because you, grew and transitioned and became, it doesn't mean that your past experiences don't build you and, you know, give you what you need. So I love that you're able to bring with you all of your gifts and really utilize that in your present self, though, really applauding that. So let's get into dating.  Yeah.  She's pointing up, you guys, up to God. Yep. Absolutely. Keep God in the picture. Always. Keep God in the picture. Always. And I love your four pillars, by the way, because  it also, if not forces us, it inspires us to always keep God in the picture  with all of your four pillars of dating and marriage success.

So can I remind everybody what that is? Because I love this. I love that your four pillars of marital success are God, marriage, business, and you.  And I could speak to any of them. I know we're speaking about marriage today, but yeah, I think ultimately it does come down to  having a relationship.  I feel like they're also entangled, right?

So my four pillars aren't just four pillars that stand next to each other. I am a designer. So in my head, God is at the core. Then you have the two parts, the marriage, the business, it sort of has to fit together. And then you are the container that  holds all of that. So it looks a little bit like a ball with different layers.

 And I love that because it really is exactly like that, right?  They're not just all random pillars and Oh, at any moment you can just, you know, Deal with any of them. It's that you have a specific hierarchy  and like you said, God is at the core of everything we do. And if I am here for God, I'm showing up, I'm doing his work.

So then it's easier for me to keep  my marriage and my business in balance because they're not pulling me apart. Instead, they're both aligning with God's will. Right. And, and it's, you know, and then the last part with you being the container is like, you have the choice of believing I have to just overwork and overdo and I have so much, you know, and like, sort of run yourself down.

Or you say, I am here to show up. To do the thing I'm meant to do and God is giving me the strength and God is guiding me. And so you  stop working hard and you  start working smart because you're being guided. You don't have to figure it out on your own. And so everything just sort of works together.

And this is how I, I  love to work.  Yes. Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. I love the explanation.  So this month we're talking about dating and I brought you on here specifically because I think that you have a fascinating story with that and also just, you know, Dating and marriage and how they affect each other.

A lot of people are in the dating stage and they're preparing for marriage. And a lot of people are married and they have a lot of baggage from their dating life. And so  it's sort of out of balance because of all of what they're bringing along for the ride. Yes.  Yeah. And also in my case I write about this a lot.

I speak about a lot. So I'm going to use a term I hate, which is older single. It's really condescending, but I was for lack of a better term, an older single by the time I got married. And so was my husband, neither of us had been married.  I guess there were some close calls on both of our sides. But.

Ultimately, yeah, we were, I was past 30 and my husband was already just slightly past 40 when we got married. So that's also, it's so important whatever one's age is to again, keep God in the picture because there is so much frustration, feelings of rejection, feelings of inadequacy during the dating process.

And so yeah, we can, we can get into that, but it is. A bit of a different perspective when somebody  is of an age range that is a little bit beyond the typical age range when many people get married.  Yes. And you know, you say there's the feeling of failure, the feeling of shame, all the stuff that comes from the inside.

But then there's also all these very helpful people   who make sure to say the wrong thing.  Yes. Yeah.  All those loving people who just wanna help and be so, you know and it's so, so difficult to have to deal with all of that external pressure on top of the internal pressure that you're already feeling. 

Right, right, right. So, you know, I think that you and I can both agree that at its core, these are people who  we want to believe it's really coming from a good place. Otherwise, they would probably ask different questions instead of, why aren't you married yet? Or  why are you so picky? Again, another term that I really hate because, Oh, I hate it too.

Yeah, no, we should not get married just because the time clock is ticking, whatever it is, the biological clock we shouldn't compromise what are clear red lines of things we, we just cannot live well with.  So so yeah, so, but, but with people and their advice and their comments, that's also a challenge.

It's, it's, it's, character building. Because what will happen is, let's say you get married and then kids come along. There will be helpful people with their advice. And  depending on the neighborhood you live in, it could be pretty intrusive on a regular basis.  So  you know what it does? It builds our own muscle of graciousness.

And thanking the person and then you can change the topic or there are there are some teachers who what they'll recommend is if somebody asked an intrusive question,  you don't have to answer it. You don't even have to answer.  you don't have to answer in a way that's so honest that it's embarrassing to you because we are not commanded to embarrass ourselves.

So, but getting back to like ways to answer graciously is you don't really have to answer if somebody's asking. It's hard to, it's hard to do because we're kind of shocked that someone  would ask whatever question it is. It's very insensitive.  But if we had in our back pocket, just the the potential answer of, Oh, that's such an interesting question.

Why do you ask?  Or that's such an interesting question. What do you like just, just to turn it back on them? You can even say in a, in a way of phrasing that's good for you, how that's, personal. There are different phrases you can come up with or just change the topic or  find find a reason.  Just the fact that you could judge favorably and say, like, that is so nice of you to worry about me and think, you know, oh, it's, So nice.

And  I'm so grateful that you're, you know, always looking out for me. And can you pass the Tina? You know, like, leave it at that. I don't think anybody, you know what? And like you said, it's character building because as soon as you get married and you know, everybody starts looking at your stomach, like, Oh, so when you're getting pregnant and what's next and  do you want kids, do you not want kids?

What's next? Going on, you know, and then after you have a bunch of kids, like, are you done? Are you finished? Do you, are you thinking of having more? Like I could come up with all the things and all the stages that people will say that are the exact awful, most wrong things to say, but people say them because they're just trying to find what to say.

Say they're bored. They're looking for small talk. They're not out to get you. They're not looking to hurt your feelings. And as soon as you can really click into that and be like, Oh, it's not about me. It's about them. That's okay. And I love how you say, just turn it back at them. It's like that's such an interesting question.

What do you think? You know? And it's like what do I think? Awkward, right? Yeah, so, you know, sometimes we don't want to know what do they think, because then they'll say, well, you're not getting any younger, right? So sometimes it could just be, and I have done this in life, I would say, oh, that's an interesting question, why do you laugh? 

Sometimes, if they are very persistent, I'll say, oh, that's interesting, why do you need to know?  Right.  And  people kind of, you know,  Consider what they just asked, or they're usually fumbling for an answer, and it's often very, very lame. So, you know, this can also happen when the kids come along, and maybe one of your kids is known to be a little bit of a troublemaker. 

Or disruptive in class, or something happened in the neighborhood, whatever, and people might ask, Oh, how's little Shloime, or whatever, because they may know he's a bit of a troublemaker. And I've seen where women will respond oh that's interesting, why do you ask, or why do you need to know?  And it really shuts down the question, or the insensitive question, you can just get on with your life after that.

 In the thing about singles, so  when people would ask, Questions that I thought were really insensitive or even when they didn't. When they would just dispense advice, whatever it is  At some point when I was in that departure of dating sometimes I would sort of wonder in those moments of self doubt like  is marriage really all that good?

Like why are people so obsessed with marriage? Why do people want to see me all the singles married? Are they hiding something? Is there like a secret that's awaiting me that once i'm married I was duped, like it's really not, you know, but you know, I do realize now that I'm on the other side and I've, my husband and I, we've been married over 20 years, thank God, that I can see like if a marriage is good, it is good to be married, it's good to have that partner in life, it's good to have someone cheering you on, it's good to have somebody with whom you feel safe, somebody who is a good friend that you can be completely yourself with.

Marriage is good. So for people that are listening you know, I'm not saying that all marriages are healthy, but as an institution,  Marriage is good. You know, Groucho Marx once said in, in a movie, some woman who was interested in said, I think marriage is a noble institution. He goes, he says, Yeah, but I don't want to live in an institution. 

But it is, it is a beautiful thing, a good marriage really is a beautiful thing. So now I kind of get it, why people are kind of pestering  singles. About, you know, when new what's up. So picky, all of these things, because a good marriage really is good. Yes, I agree. And I also think that, you know, people think, Oh, when I'm finally married, people will leave me alone.

You know, when I'm finally married, then  I'll make it, I could check off the box and be done, but you're never done working on yourself. You're never done dealing with people, right? I had this word. I had my. My I had four girls first, and when I was pregnant with my fifth, I heard it from everyone. Is it a boy?

Are you excited? If it's a boy, are you looking forward to a boy? Oh my gosh, what is going to, you know, and then when I finally had the boy, everybody was like, wow. Look at that. It's a boy. And the first thing they say is, you just wait, just wait and see how your life changes. He's going to mess up your whole life.

He's  upside down. And I was like, really, this is what you wanted to tell me? Like, this is why you were so worried that I should have a boy. So it's, again, it's just those things that people say, and you have to be able to do that yourself.  Exactly. Yep, you can just respond lightheartedly like, oh, okay. 

Then just move on with your life. Not every, not every comment needs to have a full response a revealing response. It doesn't all have to turn into a whole mice up. As they say. Right. So, yeah. Yeah. What do you think is, I think that one of the biggest issues is subconsciously, like you were saying, we're afraid of marriage because we don't know what we're going into, right?

A single is like maybe judging marriage by what she has seen. or he has seen in their life  or in, you know, other examples. So how do you get over that and really let yourself  find the right one for you and make it amazing? Okay. So in my own case, ever since I had a conscious memory, I always wanted to be married. 

I think it was even a stronger instinct than one day having children. And we've been blessed with.  children, just, just delicious children.  But my own instinct as a little girl, I always wanted to be married. So I really wasn't skittish about the idea of one day getting married because it really was an inner goal.

But. I think that when people, when singles are skittish, it kind of depends on the gender. I think that without, without lumping all women into one mind frame,  just Jewish understanding is instinctually women are relationship oriented and  And wanting to be married, even if there are butterflies and doubts and  a lack of information, I think,  again, according to Jewish sources, this is something that women on the whole want and feel less apprehensive than men with men again, according to Jewish sources and what is expected of a Jewish husband,  especially in the case of being the provider. 

Or at least if he is let's say that he is learning, he's still in charge of making sure the house is provided for. So  there's an agreement that the woman is going to do most of the income getting as an agreement, it's really for the husband's tova. So he's in charge of that. And so I think with men, they're a little bit more hesitant.

They're hesitant about settling down. They're hesitant about making one person, One woman, the center of their life, and  that's the one that you're trying to please. She's your priority your whole life. So I think, from what I've learned from Jewish sources, and what I've seen with guys, I used to be a matchmaker when my husband and I started out our marriage.

I was a matchmaker for about ten years, something like that. And, so, you know, this is a thing that, Even for men who have decided, maybe it takes until they're well into their 20s, early 30s, that they really want to be married, inside there is a little bit of a turmoil there because of what will be expected of them. 

I think that what is expected of a Jewish wife, those are sort of again, on the whole expectations that she's already kind of in line with by the time she's married.  Wow. Yeah. I mean,  I think it's really fascinating, the whole concept, you know, the, the pressure. And like you said having to be the one to provide and protect and, yeah. 

So when I, when I, when I used to interview the single guys who were interested in being married,  you know, the single women.  Time and again, when we would talk about what sort of characters traits that they're looking for in a husband,  they were different things, but  on the whole, they almost all wanted someone who's responsible, someone who's reliable, he's going to do what he says he does, but someone who's responsible.

So if there's a guy that has a problem always being in debt, or he doesn't wash his finances, or he has no direction when it is the sort of thing, a woman. Woman will move on and swipe. No, I'm kidding. She will. She'll just move on and wish wish him well. And, and look for somebody who can a assume some responsibility.

So one of the things that I found frustrating as a matchmaker interviewing guys is occasionally there would be a guy when I would say, so what, what is your, what are your career ambitions? Or what do you do or what do you intend to do when you leave Yeshiva and go into the work world? And so once in a while I would get a guy with a, it was kind of like a dumb smile on his face and he would say whatever Hashem wants.

So like, okay, nice. But in reality a young woman or any age woman, she's not going to want to hear that. She's going to want to know what that the person has a plan. So even if the guy says I'm finishing up a course, getting trained for this or that. Okay. So at least he has a plan, even if he's not working in that career just yet. 

So yeah, that's an important thing. Yeah. I find also that, you know, this generation, my husband calls us like marshmallows, right? They're like all of the generations before us, like went through all these tough things and had to build character. And we're sitting around like playing on our phones and being like, you know, real marshmallows.

Thank God, you know, now we've built character. Thank God we had COVID. We had a war. We we've gone through plenty. I think we can say our generation made up for the you know, for the, for the lack of, yes, yes. So. I'm, I'm Gen X, so I remember when I was in my 20s and people were lamenting Gen X, we were called the slacker generation, and I think in many instances people, Gen X people earned that  label of being the slacker generation, but what happens is, you know, now a lot of Gen Xers are in their 40s and 50s, low 50s And so yeah, there's a famous Gen X movie called Reality Bites, Reality Bites.

So what has happened with Gen X is, yeah, you get to be in your 20s, 30s, and Reality Bites. Reality hits you in a place where you realize, I've got to get my act together. But really Xers got their act together anyway. It's it's the marshmallow generation, that's an interesting, that's an interesting term. 

Well, you know, it's. It's hard when, when there isn't much expected of you at this point, you know, the younger, the teenagers, the 20 year olds, they're like, you know, well, the ones here in Israel are in war and they're definitely not marshmallows. Definitely not anymore.  But you know, we do see it on and off where if you allow yourself to be, then you definitely have an easy time falling into that.

And I think it's really important to become intentional. Like it's not something that is. You know, you're doomed. It's something that will happen to you if you don't become conscious about it So just I love that you're saying have a plan think it through And if you say god will tell me what to do, like whatever god wants i'll do then start asking god What do you want me to do?

Like let's get practical. I need your guidance 

  Hey, before we continue the episode, I want to ask you something. Are you ready to get answers from God directly? Feel more in love with your husband and more supported than ever? Run the business of your dreams without having to sacrifice any other part of your life? That is exactly what my one on one private coaching is for and I want to invite you, just you and me, For a free deep dive discovery call.

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 right So, you know what Bat-Chen  this feeds directly into the four pillars because if you Start your day I do this, not everyone does this, or at least at some point during your day, if you don't start your day, is  just in your own words, ask Hashem.

You're saying what do you want from me?  The way that I phrase it and have been for years is I ask Hashem how may be of service to you? So,  I, you know, I, I usually wake up with my gratitudes and,  I usually wake up with, with, with thanks to Hashem for a myriad of things. 

And then, I do ask Him, how may I be of service to you today? And the talents that he blesses me with, the, the experience, skills, whatever it is, I, I do ask how may be of service to you today. So, this is something that also serves somebody well, especially when they are single or whether they are married, is to, to be of service.

So, when a person is single and they  don't necessarily have that spouse to go home to, or in some cases people do have a partner to come home to but where they aren't yet ready to commit and make the other person the center relationship the central relationship in their life you can make It's much more easier to make God the central the central figure in your life.

So how, how may be of service to you, Hashem? And then  in marriage,  a lot of people talk to Hashem not only  in about service,  but also to welcome Hashem into the marriage. Hashem is a partner in our marriage. We're all under the chuppah together, the shechina, habi, and us, right? So, when there are times that a woman may be frustrated with her spouse, So, in her own words, she can remind Hashem oh yeah, you're also a partner in our marriage. 

Why don't you step in and help straighten this out? And, You know, if there's like a misunderstanding or whatever the situation is that the wife might feel a bit overwhelmed and doesn't know how to solve this, okay, you don't have to solve it. Your partner in marriage, Hashem, can and does step in  and brings clarity or brings whatever is needed.

But I've seen it time and time again. With many wives, even with myself, if I ask Hashem to step in and also like help sweeten the shalom bias, it's it's incredible how Hashem helps. And when He does, it's a good idea to remember, oh yeah, He did, like later on in the day or if it takes a week sometimes oh yeah, that, that's why Hashem really did step in.

He answered my prayers and He stepped in and helped straighten it out.  I hope that's the case with a lot of people. I'll tell you what, I think that people forget the main thing of why we're here. God created the world and put us in here so that we can turn to him and have a relationship, right? Bottom line,  he just wants us to be aware of him and bring him into our lives, ask for things, receive things, have, you know, that.

That two way street a lot of people are taught to ask god, but they're not taught how to listen So that's one of the things that I really put an emphasis on in my programs and and you know understanding that God is part of your life within your marriage within your business within everything that you do It's so important.

Yeah. Yes. Yes  I I like what you're saying because it reminds me of The first commandment, Anokhi Hashem. So the thing is, Anokhi Hashem, it could mean that Can you translate that for the people who don't speak Hebrew? Yes, Anokhi Hashem, Anokhi is loosely translated as I. So, I am God, I am God your Lord.

I know he means so much more than just I, but it's I and everything that is my essence, meaning Hashem. And that's like a whole lesson in itself.  But Hashem is I am Hashem, your Lord,  who took you out of Egypt.  And there's more to that, but it ends with to be a God to you. Right? So, I am Hashem who took you out of Egypt to be out of the bondage, out of slavery, to be a god to you.

So this is, this point goes to exactly what you were just saying. That Hashem could have made the first commandment, I am Hashem your Lord, creator of the universe, and stop there. He is the creator of the universe. He is the supervisor and the sustainer of the universe. But that's not what the, it's in the first commandment.

It could have been. It's, I am Hashem your Lord,  who took you out of Egypt and, that piece where it says to be a God to you, what is that? That's a relationship  to be a God to you. He took us out of Egypt. Yes. So that we could  go toward the land of Israel and everything that's supposed to happen.

You know why? To be a God to us. He loves  all of his creations. The Jewish people have a very important responsibility and a very special relationship. Hashem gives us the gift of Shabbat. He gives us so many gifts and reveals so much to the Jewish people, through the written Torah, the oral Torah, Talmud, and through his through the sages, through so many holy messengers, to have this relationship.

He wants a relationship. He wants a relationship, so, and we are supposed to be as godly as possible. We can't be God, but we can be godly. And that also has to do with being in relationship.  Right. Oh, I love that. I love that.  God gave us the relationship between husband and wife so that we can understand better the relationship between ourselves and God.

And you, when you see it that way, suddenly it's like, Oh, you know, I get it. I had this when I finally realized. You know, my husband has things he likes done a certain way and if I do them my way, then it's done, but it's not done the way he wants. And it was frustrating me for a long time. I was like, but I want to do it my way, you know, leave me alone.

He's like, but you're doing it for me. So do it the way I want, you know, I'm being very clear about what I want. Classic husband, right? So  when I thought about it, I'm like, Oh, this is why God is so specific about  the commandments and he's telling us exactly what he wants and he wants us to do it his way.

And if you turn around and say, yeah, but I feel doing it this way, you know, I sort of feel like doing it my way. God is like, no, no, no. I'm being very clear about what I want because I need it to be done my way because you're doing it for me. You know, the things that you do for you do them your way. I don't care, you know, and even, I love that a lot of what we do on the business end of  my coaching is find what works for you and make it stick because God made you so unique and you have to be able to work with your own strengths and weaknesses, but that's about the things that you're out to do that have nothing to do with, you know, specific Commandments, but when god wants something done, he wants it done his way And if you know if i'm going to be all like no, I want to do my way blah blah blah blah I'm, very close minded and i'm not in a relationship.

What i'm doing is like, you know living with myself and making me the center But that was a real eye opener for me, right? Right I can tell you as a Baalas tshuva. So it it is a process of learning. What is it that hashem wants? He's given us a list of his 613 favorite things, but the minutia, the oral Torah really, really describes in more detail how to go about it.

If you were to think of a wife who loves getting flowers on Erev Shabbat,  you know, what if the husband didn't bring her flowers but brought home chocolate?  a nice box of chocolates every, every year of Shabbat. Now, it could be the woman maybe she has an allergy to chocolate, or she wants to curb her sugar intake or not have it, but he keeps bringing her chocolates and not flowers, and it would just mean so much to her to have flowers.

The reverse is true as well. Maybe she's allergic to flowers, and she would love a box of chocolates every Shabbat, any time of the week. Yeah, so, those are things. It's trivial compared to bigger issues in life, what, what we do prefer and not prefer.  But but I think that's sort of like an example of this is really how I want it.

So with Hashem, you know, He wants us to observe the Sabbath. in a certain way. And  for people that are hearing this, this particular week, like this is going on in this week's parsha, as far as like when Hashem commands the people to build a mishkan in the desert, a tabernacle in the desert. So we are not to do the 39  creative acts, which in Hebrew is melechot. And, and so that's like Hashem telling us, this is how I want it to be done, and this is what you must avoid doing. So we don't die wool or whatever the garments that go on the mishcon the, the tapestries or whatever it is. We don't do that. That Shabbat is important enough. We don't do that. And maybe a few other things.

And if he's commanding us to do it, you know what? It's because we can do it. Hashem would never give us a test that we can't pass, and that's not coming from me. This is coming from Chazal. I learned it first from the great Rabbi Yitzhak Greenman back when I lived in New York City. I just never forget the way he said it.

But it's true. Hashem does not give us a test that we can't pass,  right?  And I think that it brings us back to being a quote unquote older single which I know we don't like using but you know for this for this example When you are in a situation where you feel  this is a test that is just not, it's not fair.

You know, what are you thinking God? Like, don't you know better? You know, I was supposed to be married already. Or I was supposed to, you know, and all of the things, this is all God baggage, right? Is like, I was supposed to have a baby. I was supposed to be married. I was supposed to have, you know, You know, health, I was supposed to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

God should have known better. And when you are able to lean into that and say, wait,  God knows exactly what he's doing. Not only that, he gave me all the tools I need in order to pass this test. I have everything I need and I am, you know, I'm going to. I'm going to become the person I need to become through this.

It is so much easier to go through. And I'm not saying it's going to be easy because, you know, I need  to give a shout out to women who may be past 30, well past 30, that this, it is serious stuff.  It's very easy to say you know, we're, we're being tested and you can pass your test and you can do great things with your life.

And yes, you can, you can do a lot for the community, for other people. There is so much you can do. It's not as though women are commanded to get married because again, on the whole, we are relationship oriented and on the whole women do want to be married. They want a lifetime commitment with somebody. So, but I do want to acknowledge because as I said, said earlier in our conversation.

I said that I was past 30 when I got married. Someone would say I was well past 30 when I got married, but I was in my thirties and I do relate to the loneliness. I relate to.  To just feeling really, really frustrated and also wondering, is it ever going to be my turn to get married? So I just want to say for the, for the single ladies that are listening to this conversation, I totally, totally get that.

And it's not as though there's an easy fix to it. I can tell you in my own family she has talked about this publicly, but my husband's sister was a,  single lady for a very, very long time. And she always showed up for every family simcha, for every family celebration, whether it was the brit or other people's weddings, weddings of people that were already of grandchild age in the family.

She would show up  with a smile on her face.  And then finally at an age past 60, but she did get married and 

 she's a happily married lady now. So you just never know when it's going to be your turn. I didn't know if I would ever have a turn to be married. And so, but I would talk about that.

to Hashem, in my own words, expressing that frustration. And  there are some women, they go through being single ladies, that they go through a very long dry spell of no one's asking me out, no one's calling me with ideas, suggestions to go out with this or that one,  and  I just want to acknowledge those are really, really hard times, and  one of the things that I think we are tasked to do is to go deep in and to really rely on Hashem, and to tell Hashem, you know, I'm here to be of service, I really want to be married, just to, to be, just to have Hashem.

honesty, journal it, talk about it,  and, and to go deep into your relationship with Hashem. Hashem knows that you're lonely. If that is the case, He gets it. He gets it. And sometimes you just have to ask. If I get it, whatever we're going through, it's supposed to be the best thing for me. I just need to know why.

How is this the best thing for me at this moment? What am I supposed to do? What do I do today to, to push through this and show up and be present in life?  It is a difficult situation, so I just do want to acknowledge that for people that are lonely, who want to be married, who want to be, who want to get remarried, who want to get married again, whatever the situation there are strengths that we need to call on when that's the situation.

Yes. So I love that you're acknowledging this. And  one thing that you said is why I would stay away from why and change it to for what? Right? Because we don't understand why we can't ever, you know, and even if God shows us why it's not really going to serve us,  the, you know, in Hebrew, Lama and Lema are the same letters, but they have a completely different meaning.

Lama is why, right?  is for what? And if I am here sitting around crying about like, llama, why is this happening to me? And why, why, why it's not taking me anywhere. Is that moving me forward? Is any, if anything, it's keeping me stuck. If I ask, what is this for? You know, am I meant to do something with this?

 Can I show up in a certain way right now? That will strengthen other people that can help someone else, whatever it is, , it's really going to motivate you to move forward. And so I really want to get a little practical now and ask you, what can somebody do to show up and, and be  public, be in people's radars. I feel like it's a little bit similar to a business, you know, it's like,  how am I getting clients while I'm showing up every single day?

You know, I'm showing up on my podcast. I'm showing up in my email. I'm showing up, I'm doing things that, are in my control where I can say, I did this and the rest is out of my hands. And I see the correlation between people having a higher. Awareness, people remember you more if you show up.

So, you know, what can people do to really up the game and not have this sort of slumpiness of I'm, I'm falling into it because it's easy to fall into it, you know, the easy thing is to just go default. I'm done. And we will all understand because it's so natural.

The question is, how can we bypass that or overcome that?  So there are things that we can do. There's a lot of things we can do. I can just focus on a few because of time limitations.  But one thing is that both the guys and the girls can do is just like marriage is serious business. So is business.

Business is serious business. And we are advised always when it comes to business, always have that elevator pitch in your back pocket. I do this. I help, meaning, I, I, this is what I do, this is how I help people, and this is what I'm interested, you know, the sort of clients or whatever it is you're looking for.

Like, you always have your elevator pitch in business, so you never know when it's going to come up, but maybe you need to have your elevator pitch for What you are looking for in a spouse and how you are a good spouse also a potential spouse. But  you never know what's going to happen if somebody says, You know my husband is in this great new minion, but it happens to be so many single guys.

Like, what are you looking for?  So, There is not the time to go into an hour long spiel of  your whole life is a single and the disappointments. Have your elevator pitch ready and, you know, it might be this is where I want to live, this is where I want to stay, this is these are my top three traits or priorities that I'm looking for and here's where I have a red line.

So, you know, it could be like some people have an allergy and cannot. live with somebody who smokes cigarettes, right? So that might be like a very reasonable red line, or somebody who has a history of debt, or if it's, or on the yes side, it could be somebody who regularly attends a Minyan, meaning he regularly goes to services, if that's important, or somebody who is always interested in learning, whether learning more about our Jewish tradition, or just learning more about his trade.

I mean, whatever is, The person's priority. So have your elevator pitch ready. And that's good for the guys and the girls so that the person will also have in mind. It's not so much to memorize, like, ah, this is, you know, and one thing that's very important  that I ask single people is about the age range of somebody that they feel comfortable being with in a committed relationship.

And that's important because, you know, in my own case, my parents had the most happy marriage and They were nine years apart. My dad was older by nine years than my mother, but you know what? A lot of people grew up where the parents are the exact same age and they would not be comfortable sometimes in some cases with somebody who who's nine years older than them.

 So anyway, so just have that in your back pocket.  What are your main wants or red lines when it comes to a spouse? In the case of women, so it's, it's going to sound a little old fashioned, but I think that there's a lot to say about a woman who presents herself in public, as though she's ready to go out and to be in that relationship and by that I mean You know, men, on the whole, they really want to be married to a happy woman, even if she, like, somebody who is not resentful about life, or somebody who is not always a Debbie Downer, if you know what I mean.

 Men are very pleased to be with somebody who is not resentful. high needs or doesn't present herself as high needs. Is that what it's called? High needs?  Or just a very needy person, right? So there are ways to go around when you're just out and about  to make an attempt to look presentable. And if that means wearing the tiniest bit of makeup, if that works for you, fine. Some people don't need makeup at all, like, like the host of this podcast, who's so naturally gorgeous. But to, to look pulled together in some way is helpful. And to look, and to have a panimiaphos, to have a pleasant, outwardly disposition. 

So if a person, their resting face is always, looks like a scowl. So that's not so great. So, you know, when people see you out and about looking together, looking happy, that's also something that they will remember. I know it's happened in my case. I see friends of mine who are single and they,  Do present themselves very pleasantly with a pleasant disposition and Those are people that are it's just easier to keep in mind when it comes to a guide that they think would be a good Match.

Yeah. Yes. I love everything. You're saying number one Your marriage, you know as your business your business is your business and your dating is your business, right? Take it seriously Don't don't just like oh, it's gonna happen on its own. Whatever. I'm just gonna fuddle through it.

Cause that's really not going to get you anywhere. I was just speaking to a friend of mine who's been working really hard on improving her marriage and she's been very successful. They don't fight anymore. They have great conversations.  They really can dream together and design things together.

They're just a great couple now. And I know, cause I've seen them for so many years and like, The fights that they used to have, and the no talking, and the, you know, the stress and everything. And then now, she wants to invest in her business.  And she wants to get a coach and move forward with her new business, whatever.

And her husband's like, why do you always have to pay for all these things? Why don't you just figure it out yourself? She's like, What do you think happened with our marriage? Like, it just became good on its own? He's like, yeah, I figured we just, you know, matured. And she's like, no, we didn't just mature.

I've been working really hard on myself so that we can have a good relationship. He's like, oh, I thought it was just, you know, you matured and you became a nicer person. He's like, yeah, no. Right? Like  I need the support. I need the coaching. I need the program so that I can have where to turn to get the skills and to, you know, learn what I need to learn.

So same with everything else, right? It's invest in yourself and invest in what matters to you. If it matters to you to get married now and you're ready, go for it. You know, there is dating coaches out there. There is. So many amazing programs that will help you, you know, put together this plan of what to say in an elevator pitch, how to present yourself, what you want and what you don't want, and finding out these things are really important for your clarity, you know, Right, right.

You can also go to places  where your future spouse might be. So when I lived in New York City, I had a friend, she just wanted to marry a wealthy guy. She wasn't so wealthy on her own. She had an okay job, not so wealthy. So you know what she did? She would go to fundraisers because that's where all the rich people are.

 And she ended up marrying somebody who was very comfortable, but she just went to where the guys are. I've heard it said that women should. Go to a hardware store because  that's where men who are pretty handy are, but  that's where guys are. Women don't often go so much to the hardware store, but it's not, it doesn't mean put yourself there and then just start flirting with all the customers.

No,  but if you are sort of where your spouse might want to be, great. Now, it doesn't have to be where I am. Where do men just always go? It might mean that if there's a class you know, like OU Israel center, they're always offering great classes. There's a lot of community centers. They offer great classes just because you're interested in it.

So you never know if your future spouse is also at that class, then you have this common interest and you never know where that could lead you.  But if you're just living your life, it could be that you're in a situation where either somebody might make an introduction or you might actually see your future spouse there  to, to, to get out there and do what interests you.

And  you never know if you're going to see somebody there  that leads you to.  Yeah. And the last thing I would say practically before we close because we are out of time is make it, make it part of your calendar, right? Have blocked off time that is for dating. Because When you have a life and you're busy and you have all these things, you know, going on, your calendar can get really full.

And then somebody shows up and it's like, Oh yeah, my next available night is in two weeks. You know, it's like, what are you doing? There should be a blocked off time where yes, every single Wednesday is open for dates. And I am, you know, making sure to  fill it. In whatever way. I know this is what my husband did when we were, you know, when I met him, I said the, you know, I went out with his roommate.

I wasn't interested in the roommate. So I said no to the roommate. Eventually the roommate called back my mother and said,  I have a really good friend who would be a perfect fit.  And so I said, you know what? I'm so sick of this. If he's available on Wednesday, I'll go out. And my husband said the same thing.

He's like, okay, I'm ready on Wednesday, because Wednesday is my day to go out. And we ended up going that Wednesday. And it was, you know, the first date of  this amazing life. But you never know. You just have to create space, you know? Right.  Yeah.  The lady that introduced my husband and me, it was at the end of the summer where I had a dry spell and she just called out of the blue.

I didn't realize that was, would be the morning that would change my life. And yeah, in our case. Once he and I started going out, then all of a sudden all these suggestions started coming in. But I really liked the guy I was out with, my husband. So I had to say no to this, that, this, that. It's just, whoa.

So you never know. You might be in a dry spell. Be prepared to be surprised. This is gonna be the day. And you know what else, Baruch Haim? Let's be prepared to be surprised that this is the day Mashiach comes. Why not? Why not today? It doesn't have to be Rosh Chodesh, it can be today. We should always be ready to be surprised for wonderful things to happen.

Yes, and that's what, you know, Yeshuat the redemption from God, is like a blink of an eye, you know, and I remember thinking that, realizing that. When  I turned around, I had my baby and it wasn't even a year,  you know, since, since I got like, what just happened? What just happened? Like a tornado just hit, right?

I met my husband. We got engaged in six weeks. We got married in two months.  We got pregnant right away. Here I have a baby for exactly nine months later. And I'm like, poof.  What just happened? And it takes time to  catch up with yourself because it just life is so beautiful Because it has the ability to you know Just in a blink of an eye change everything and like you said who knew that morning would be a significant morning But then again this morning is a significant morning Just look out for all the coolest things that are happening around you and lean into them  make it happen Yes, allow it in.

Okay. This was amazing. I wish we could talk more, but let's get back into it. Heather, how can people find you and where can they be in touch? People can get in touch with me through my website, which is heatherdeanproductions.  com, heatherdeanproductions. com, one word, and there is a contact form. And yeah, I'd be happy to hear from people if they have.

Questions about the media, media coverage, or what we've been discussing here today.  Yes. Or anything else.  Anything else. Just, you know, hit her up. Whatever you want. She's good for. Thank you so much for listening and make sure you come back next week for more amazing guests and amazing episodes. And don't forget to be connected for real.

Thanks so much, Heather.

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