139. Self-Awareness in Dating

Aleeza Ben Shalom is the renowned globe-trotting Jewish Matchmaker, captivating audiences worldwide. She is a multifaceted professional, excelling as a matchmaker, dating coach, speaker, and author. Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman is a marriage coach for women in business. Together they will talk all things dating and relationships. 

 Welcome to the Connected For Real podcast. I'm Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman, a marriage coach for women in business. And my mission is to bring God's presence into your life, into your marriage and into your business. Let's get started. 

 And we are live. Welcome everyone to the connected for real podcast. I'm Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman. I'm a marriage coach for women in business. I love that intersection where marriage and business collide and they just sort of pull you apart and then you're like, it's not supposed to be this way and you shouldn't have to choose.

You can do both. And that's what I'm here for. And today with. me is Aleeza Ben Shalom, who's all about dating, and we are going to be focusing on dating and you.  Let's get into it. Aleeza, introduce yourself, tell everyone why I'm so excited to have you here, and then we'll get on with our topics.  Okay, so you may know me from from the series on Netflix called Jewish matchmaking.

I was the matchmaker that was putting everybody together. And I really do that in real life. That's what I do for my work, for my business. And talking about where marriage and business collide. I've totally been combining marriage and business for years. I started out working with. A lot of people on the phone virtually.

It was like normal to me before zoom, zoom conversations came along. And I would do it when my kids were at school or when they were asleep. And then as they grew, like my hours started getting later and later and later. And that's a really good thing. I'm a night owl because now we moved to Israel  and I work lots of American hours and I'm up until two, three, four in the morning.

That's just very normal for me now. So I work as a dating and relationship coach. I help. singles of all ages, stages, and backgrounds. And yeah, that's me.  That's so exciting. I love it.  I love it. And let's get into a lot of my listeners are married. Cause obviously I'm a marriage coach, but a lot of them are not.

Some are early daters and they're, you know, just getting into it and not really sure how to make sure that they're quote unquote doing it right.  And some of them are, you know, sort of wishing that they met me 20 years ago. And now that they're divorced and are interested in getting married again, they're feeling a little bit of all of that baggage holding them back.

So let's talk a little bit about that. What can a person do? When they are looking to get married.  Okay. So when you're looking you were talking the second time around for a minute so the second time around is different cause we've learned so much and we have different baggage than the first time around.

So we are really looking for somebody who I'll explain it like this. First time marriages, a lot of people are like, Ooh, opposites attract. Like I want something that's like different than me. And like, they work through the marriage and there's lots of, you know, good challenge, so to speak. Right. And second time around, they're like, no, I don't want to do that again.

No, no, no, no. Like I'd rather, you know, there's two types of twins. There's identical and fraternal, right? First marriage is like fraternal twins. And second is like identical, right? I want like my identical twin. I want the same hobbies and I want the same interests and I want the similar backgrounds and I want things to align.

Where we don't have to work so hard just to even get to a nice baseline. I just want the baseline to be a little bit less difficult for us to reach. And and I really like, I respect that. Do you know what I mean? Like I, I understand where you're coming from. Marriage is hard enough. Why should we make it even more challenging?

Why should it be more difficult when we don't know? So we don't know what we don't know, but once we actually know, it is really nice that we align with similarities, then. just work to figure out all of the differences, which there'll be plenty of differences, even if you're quote identical, right? You've seen identical twins.

They're not really identical. There really are very many differences about them. So to me, I think that that's probably the biggest difference first time round versus second time round or third or beyond.  Would you say That first time around should be a little bit more aware and try to find similarities as opposed to, you know, sort of go with that,  opposites attract thing. 

In general, I like similarities. I mean, think about marriage, and since you're the marriage expert I think it holds true that As we go through our relationship over the course of years, we see and we discover all of the challenges and all of the differences. And to start out with a baseline that's much higher in similarities, don't worry, you'll find the differences.

Like you want opposites? No problem! In three years, you'll know exactly what's opposite about you guys. But I think I would heavily recommend for anybody, first time round  or beyond, that you do this. To start with as many similarities as possible. You won't realize all the little nuances and all the little things that actually just make it a little bit more pleasant  to live with you. 

Right. I hear that. I hear that. And I think that like you said, at the end of the day.   It's still going to be a challenge because this is marriage and marriage is meant to push you to the next level. And there is no pushing to the next level without a good challenge. Right? Nobody sits around with their feet up, twiddling their thumbs, becoming a little bit more fit or a little bit more smart or a little bit, anything.

Right. So it definitely will. Do its job, no matter what. So what are some really good practical tips for anybody who is. Just starting or in it,  just starting dating before you work on figuring somebody else out. My favorite thing is that people really figure out who they are, who I am. It goes like this.

I break it down into three categories, past, present, future. Who was I? Where did I come from? Right? What's my family life like? Now move into the present. How am I similar or different from that person that grew up like that? Now move into the future. How do I want to live? Is it similar or different from where I am today?

And when I have that big picture view of knowing where I was, where I am, and where I aspire to be, then I'll have a better picture of what type of a human to look for. Because You could pick anybody. There's lots of people in the world, but if they match your old self and they're not going to match your future self, we're going to have a problem.

And if they match you today, but they're not growing and going in a direction that you're going in, you're going to grow apart. And it would be obvious, like, wow, we weren't even heading in the same direction. So somehow we have to assess where we're at. And when we do that, We then can move through the process of assessing how somebody matches with who I am. 

Oh, I love that. Getting to know yourself. You guys, this is it. This is where it's all at. Because we're talking about you as the container for this marriage. And if you can't contain, Yourself, you're definitely not going to be able to contain other people, right? So a lot of the marriage work that we do, a lot of the business work that we do, a lot of any work that we do is really first thing, get to know yourself, get to know what you want, get to know what's important to you, get to know where you're going.

Right. And I love that you bring, bring in where you came from because it is so crucial. A lot of people try to divorce themselves from their old self.  And I find that to be one of the biggest problems in dating is when you don't bring your whole self in and you sort of expect the old self to just sort of die on the side and like, Oh, that's the old me.

I'm not that anymore. But very soon, Soon after the marriage, you end up realizing that actually it's pulling you down or it's calling you back or it's, you know, showing up in different places. It's like, where'd you come from? So not only do you have to deal with the marriage now, you also have to deal with what's coming up.

So it's really, really important. I love that.  Okay, cool. What about the people who are frustrated and they're like, I've been dating for 10 years or forever or whatever it feels like, right? Cause like it could feel like forever, even if you're dating for two years. How do we deal?  What do you do? 

Yeah. So that's a tough one because when we want something and we can't get it, it is,  Insanely frustrating and painful and irritating. Most people, right, if you want a job, fine, so you go out and get a job. If it's not your ideal job, fine, you get one for now and you know you're like on the road to get the next job, right?

If you want to move, so you pack up your stuff and you rent a new place. And if it's not your ideal spot, like, it's okay, you're going to pack up and move. Somehow with Dating and marriage. It's very different, right? It's not my pick only. I have to pick you and then I have to get you to pick me back, too.

Right? We both have to be in agreement. If I want to rent a place, I don't need you to pick me back. A job, yeah, you have to pick me back. But, you know, hey, everybody needs people. So, it's a little bit easier. So,  the  I mean, the permanence of that is just overwhelming, right? I think that the fact that, you know, you could always move or you could always change jobs is a little bit more calming.

And the fact that You don't, you don't want to have to  change stuff, you know? Yeah. That's cool. I did hear somebody say to me recently, she's like, Aliza, you know, I could just get married. If it doesn't work, we'll just get divorced. I'm like, it'll be fine. I could just, I could do that again if I want or not.

And I was like, Yeah, so no, like I don't recommend that. That's not really how we go into marriage. We go into marriage going, no, I'm ready for this. I want to be in this and please God, I want to stay in this. I hope that this should be the thing that works forever and not with this in mind of, you know, like the next, the next, the next.

So first of all, I want to say, I really empathize with people cause this is a huge decision and it's very difficult. And. The number one thing that I tell people is if it's something that you want, you just keep going for it. Because the person or the people that I see that find their partner and get married and build their life are the people that never give up.

You know, sometimes people are like, Oh, you know, when it'll come when you least  expect it, when you, when you stop looking everything, it'll just, you know, that's when the water boils, you know, like that's the whole, you know, watch pot never boils and all of a sudden, poof, it's going to magically happen.

Yeah. Yes, it will magically happen, but by not tending to you by not tending to the situation. I don't think that it's ideal. I think that sometimes we have to hyper focus on meeting the person and then other times we have to hyper focus on being the person. I had a client once. And she had been looking for years.

And she's like, Elisa, I'm like, I really don't even know what to do anymore. It's been like 18 years, like going on 19 years. I said, I know. I said, what do you need to do for you to be a happy human?  Where do you need to live? What do you need to be doing? And she's like, actually, I need to move. I don't like where I am.

I said, move like to the next, you know, block or move like out of the city. She's like, no, out of the city, like across the country. And I was like, what? Okay, tell me more. Like, what's that vision and where do you want to be? And we talked it out and we visioned it out and she went to visit and then she's like, I want to say, I was like, great, pack up your stuff and move.

And she moved. And it was about six months after that, that a friend of a friend was like, Oh, Hey, we have this guy for you. Why don't you guys go out and made the introduction and that's who she married. And I just saw them a couple months ago and they're doing so well and they're so happy. And she's not only with the person that she's happy to be with, but she's where she wanted to be.

And she didn't think she could move there cause it was like a little bit more remote. And who are you going to meet? There's nobody there. I need to be in a big city. And like she had all of this thinking. And when she let go of that and she just chased after what would bring her joy, the rest of her joy found her. 

So my advice is to follow in that direction of, of your, you know, Marie Kondo talks about it, you know, like, does it bring you joy? And if it's not bringing you joy,  let's remove it from your life. We don't need extra clutter and extra stuff. If you're really unhappy where you are, even if you're dating and there's lots of options, you You're really unhappy and I'm going to date you and I'm going to see that.

I'm going to know that you're super unhappy and it's not going to feel right. And it's not going to work. So even if it looks like there's going to be less options, I think it's more like an optical illusion. You have to chase the joy. You have to be where you're going to be joyful and more things that are joyful are going to come and they're going to be attracted to you. 

I love that. I love that.  It's such a good point.  I think that one of the things that I talk about a lot in, in marriage is that in the beginning you were happy because you just were inherently happy and you attracted this guy because he was attracted to you being happy. Right. And so you giggled at his jokes and everything was fine.

And you know, then dilly dally, you get married, everything starts to settle down and now life starts to feel a little bit heavier and your happiness sort of You know, medals out and  then he feels like a failure, like there's something wrong with him. Oh, I'm not making her happy. Something's wrong with me.

And  the best advice for marriage, if you want to improve your marriage is The same advice that you just gave is go after your own happiness, right? Start to do the things that make you happy and then let him take responsibility for it. I thank you so much for being there, you know, making me making the room for me to be happy or allowing me to go to yoga that makes me so happy or whatever it is, right?

Like I just went to a retreat. It was so fun. I came back. I was alive. I was happy. I was like, I finally got out of my town, you know, for four and a half months. And, and I just, I thank them all. I think all of my kids, my husband, I'm like, it's cause of you, you know, if not for you, I wouldn't have gone. And like, could I have done it?

Yeah, but it's so fun to give them credit, right? Because then you appreciate each other and  you give that happiness, you know, you sort of let it spread. So I very much think that this is Universal advice is make your happiness your priority because it's yours and no one else has the key to your happiness unless you give it to them and that's really sad because then they have it and then you don't have it right  so yeah it's kind of well it's kind of like lighting a candle right like  i'm a lit candle and my partner's not right and i like that candle but it doesn't take away from my light It only brings more light in.

So that's the same thing with happiness and joy. When I give that over, I'm not giving it away. I'm just spreading the light and it just makes more light. It makes more joy that's there between us. Yeah, I love that. And I love that you said stop falling into those rules and thoughts of like, but there is more men here or, you know, there's a bigger pool or what are you going to do?

There's not enough fish in the pond or whatever, all these things we, we fall into that. And then we don't give ourselves permission to just go for the thing that will actually work for us and make us happy. come alive. And this brings God into the situation, right? Because God is capable of everything.

And when you bring God into it, you're like, okay, God, you know, best, I'm just gonna give up control and trying to like make it happen. And that's, You know when you were saying magic, that's when the magic happens. That's what I see from my clients.  Yeah, I totally agree with that. I've seen clients in the most remote places where they've told me, Aliza, I have a program.

I must do it. Where is it? I don't know. In the middle of nowhere. How many, you know, People there are single and this, that, they're like two, you know, I was like, well, then you're going to have to date online, you know, they're like, I can do that. I can do that. I said, okay, fine. And, and that's how they meet and they meet online and then they continue their program.

They finished dating. Cause this partner of theirs is like, of course you should finish your program. And then, you know, they get married and finally they, move together and figure something out later on. But again, if you're. Yeah. in your place of joy, and the best you is coming to the table.

You just have to get creative about how you're going to meet. It might not be in person, it might be through other means, but today, like, the whole world is so small. You could literally be anywhere. You could be on an island all alone, but as long as you have Wi Fi, you have the whole world, and you can meet anybody while you sit on your little island alone. 

I know. It's really incredible. So in our days online dating, there was no such thing as like video chat, right? I'm a little like AOL chat rooms where you just like, Hey, what's up? How you doing? Where are you from?  Exactly. You're like, can you send me a picture? And like two weeks later you get it by mail, right? 

So it was those days and I just feel very anti online dating because of that, because I'm so, So back there when I think of that, but in reality, I meet people all the time on zoom and it's such a close, intimate connection because we actually know each other, we're talking face to face, we're in each other's lives.

Like it's really not that scary anymore. So I think it would be more doable nowadays than it was when we were no, much, much, much more doable. And not only that.  Like, I want to say you have to because there's not always events or programs going on in your location. There's not always the right mix of people and I don't always have time to just go to every single location and every single thing to find them.

It's so much easier to just pop online. You know, look on Zoom, right? We only have to be dressed from like the waist up. Nobody knows. If you're sitting in your pajamas all comfy, you know, it's so easy to just be Available and ready to do something and not have to like run out and be all done up and like go to a location And be ready and also emotionally like I don't want to handle everybody right?

I want to sit in my quiet private room I want to meet you and And, and often I find actually more of me comes to the table when it's just me and you via zoom as opposed to being in person, because there's so many more distractions where when I'm at home, actually, there's not, you know, there's, it's a very intimate feeling.

I feel comfortable, I feel safe in my own environment and people are much more likely to actually open up. So I find, Online zoom dating, you know, even, you know, dating rooms and, and groups and speed dating. I find them to be very successful. And a very easy way for people to meet. Not everybody likes them.

If you don't like them, don't do it. But if you're like, Oh, I don't know. I don't know. It's very different than what it used to be. It's, it's, it's great. Actually.  Yeah,  I love that. We're bringing that up because, okay, so I had one situation where I dated in person and then I had to fly back to America.

So we decided that we're going to keep talking on the phone while I was there and then I'll come back really soon. And the whole time while we were on the phone, it was a very different experience because you don't see the person, you only hear them. There's, you know, the time difference and whatever.

And then when I came back, It was like, oh, oh, you know, like almost like an eye opening experience of things went faster on the phone than I thought in reality, you know and so like, do you find that with online dating or is the fact that now we're live and we're face to face and things are a little bit more. Easier in that regard, it's a little easier, but I still my clients still experience what you're describing, which is there's nothing that compares to in person and this imaginary thought that I had of you and me and when we're on the phone or on zoom and we're talking, we're chatting and all of a sudden I meet you in person.

I'm like, Oh, that's amazing.  Oh, that thing you do that bothers me. I like what you're saying, but like, I'm not sure I can handle the whole person. And I didn't realize that through zoom, like I might have excused certain things because I didn't see the full picture. And I, I still think that we have to see each other.

And I don't like Zoom dating or, or, you know, not in person dating to happen for a lengthy period of time. My favorite is like, two weeks, three weeks, I like you, you like me, somebody flies or travels or whatever it is. And then we meet in person. Okay. Confirm. Yeah. That vibe is there. Okay. So we can go back to doing virtual.

Okay, great. Another couple of weeks. Great. We get in person again. Now we do your town. Now we do my town. I want to see you comfortable in your environment. Then I want to see you how uncomfortable you are in my environment. I want to see what that looks like and what that feels like. And it really gives me a real time feel and  some people are very good virtually, but in person they fail.

And some people are very bad virtually and in person they shine. Other people are bad on zoom and bad in person and other people are good and good. You have like four different types of people  and you never know which one you're going to get until you experience both in person and virtually. Like I'll just tell you personally, my husband is not a phone guy.

Like it's not his thing. Every once I like, I don't know, three times a year, he could really have a deep, meaningful conversation on the phone. And now that I travel a lot, it makes a really big difference and we're working on it. But like, it's not his thing. He doesn't love the phone. He doesn't love the video. He likes to be in person with people. So when we would try to have phone conversations, it was just like,  That was weird. That was awkward. I didn't like that. I don't know if he liked it or not. We don't even talk about that, but I didn't like it. And then  then I see him in person and I'm like,  we jive, we blend, everything goes so well together.

This is  amazing, right? So if I would judge just based on a phone, Conversation or a video conversation. I'd be like, just probably isn't going to work, but because of the experience in person, I knew that it would. And, and it really was never an issue. Now I I'm traveling a lot more cause I'm doing a lot of in person programs, not just all over  America, but all over the world.

And I'm a way more, and we've had these deep conversations like. We have to talk more while I'm away. Like we have to make it really a big point to get on the phone, to have what to say, to have how to, carry the conversation and make it work because it's really difficult.  And the funny thing is he's actually a little bit more focused now and totally with it on the phone conversations.

And I'm the one that's distracted because I'm the one that's traveling and there's so much going on. And like, it's very hard to just slow down. Be totally present and have that conversation without falling asleep and being jet lagged.  So, so now we switched places.  Yeah. I love that.  What do you think about checking out the person beforehand?

Like, you know, in our days it was show me a picture nowadays. It's like, Oh, let me just Google her. 

Everybody's going to do it.  And  I just feel like  It's not real, you know, just like we were talking about, like on the phone, a picture is so difficult to judge because you could have a great picture of a really terrible looking person and you can have a really gorgeous person looking really bad in a picture.

 How do you get over that judgment?  So first of all, I want to acknowledge it's more than photos. When people are Google stalking you, they are checking out what were your last couple of jobs, where have you been, where have you lived, who are your friends. They're literally stalking the whole persona because that's what we have the ability to look at today, not just to look up a photo of your face, but to figure out who you are as a person.

And people are really putting on their detective hat and they're like,  Hmm, let me dig into your life. Oh my gosh, we have six people in common. Let me call them. Let me find out what they know about you. Maybe one of them has dated you. Maybe they have more intel. So it's it's a very personal thing that is happening and sometimes the information is true and it is real and it is relevant to you and it is really good that we're looking into this.

And then other times the complete opposite is true where. It was my experience of this person. And for you, that's good. You know, one man's trash is another one's treasure. So for you, it's bad. But for me, that's perfect. That's what I needed. And if you don't know how to sift through the information properly, you could very quickly say no to somebody that's right, or say yes to somebody that's wrong.

And so we're left With a little bit of a challenge and the question is how good of a detective are you and how good are you at deciphering  what this information means to you, because there is, to be honest, there's a lot of information to be had. And at the same time, We shouldn't jump to conclusions because we have part of a picture.

So I remember somebody explaining this.  If you're walking by in a neighborhood and you see a fence, right? So you have slats and there's like slat gap, slat gap, and you can see just little slices through. And on the other side of a fence is a dog and the dog goes running through.

Okay, what do you see? You actually only see slice of dog, slice of dog, slice of dog. Why? Because there's a fence blocking it. Okay, but what does our brain do? Our brain knows that there's a whole dog behind the fence, not just a slice of dog, and our brain sees a dog running behind the fence. Now, that's an accurate picture, and that's true for your brain.

We try to do that with information that we gather. And that's where it's not true. Because while it's true that there's a dog on the other side of the fence, I don't know what's true about this person. I'm only putting together the pieces of information I have and those gaps, gap, gap, gap, gap, but I don't actually know what's filling that in.

My brain is filling that in, and the picture that I create is not necessarily a true person. picture of who this person is. Now, if I want to validate it and I want to verify it, I can meet them in person and I can be like, Yup, you see, I was right. I knew exactly what was going on here. I had all these details.

But at the same time, you might meet them and go, Holy smokes, I almost missed you. Oh my gosh, you're my soulmate. And I totally, I almost blew it because I was judging just based on little pieces of information and actually I really didn't understand the big picture and now that I do, I feel so much more connected.

So,  I think that we have to be very careful and I think on, on one hand, there's a lot of information to be had and it may be helpful to you and on the other hand, if you're not sure and if you don't have a complete picture, Just remind yourself I only have pieces of the puzzle. I don't have the whole puzzle.

I might think I know what it looks like  I could also be wrong. So let me investigate it fully and make sure that I actually get to know the real person before I make a final decision.  Right. I used to like going on first dates just to meet in real life and not have to judge by the stories or the things I was told.

And I found that to be extremely helpful because I found out so much more. Just intimate information that it wouldn't be on social media or on any, whatever, what we used to have  then, which was not social media, but  from real social, right? Like things that people would say about, or   things that you would hear and I would just meet them and be like, Oh, so either I would say, Oh, okay, this is for sure.

Not for me. And now I've confirmed it. And. I don't have a rule about second dates. Like if I felt that it wasn't right for me, I'm done. You know, I don't have to waste my time, your time, but for a lot of the guys that was, you know, very interesting that, Oh,  you know, I didn't know that. Or, you know, that opened up my eyes to something, which brings me to, I think every date is a learning experience.

And if you don't see it that way, then you're missing out on like one of the biggest, nuggets of gold available to you. 

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  I agree with that. And I think that it's not just a learning experience about who the other person is, but it's a learning experience about who I am in relationship to other, whomever you are.

And I think that we constantly discover and uncover different parts of ourselves as we meet different people. There's a different part of me that shows up, like we talked about before, like this old me that I thought was like done, buried, gone, and I had gotten rid of her. It's like, pop, there she is. Oh, hello.

You know, like,  okay, this is something different. So I think that each experience is a learning experience, both about the other person and about myself and about me in relationship to other. I think, like you said, there's a lot of golden nuggets of wisdom that can be unearthed  and dug up  and dealt with.

And I think it helps us if it's, that's your person. Great. Then it helps you moving forward. And if it's not same thing, great. It also helps you moving forward. Right?  I have a story that really illustrates this. I went out with a guy who was wearing blue strings on his don't know how to say that in English.

Blue fringe, I guess. And my father wasn't doing that. My brothers weren't doing that. So I found that to be really strange. We're talking like, you know, 20 something years ago.   And I asked him about it. I thought it was really strange. And he started giving me the whole explanation of why he started doing it and what his rabbis told him and why it matters and why it doesn't matter that, you know.

If it's if it's not the real thing, it still doesn't matter. Cause you're not doing something wrong by having it, whatever. And he basically educated me on this. Right. And at the time I was young, immature, not really sure. I wasn't learning these things. Like they weren't applicable to me.

I'm a woman. And I just found it very interesting. So whatever it turns out, he's not for me. We move our separate ways. I ended up meeting my husband who has blue fringe and now I'm like, very confident that  I'm like, Oh yeah, I know all about it. It's totally cool. You know, like, you know, just the. The other day I had to be educated, but now I feel so good about it.

I'm like, yeah, this guy really knows who he's talking about. Like he's, you know, he's up there. And suddenly I was able to respect him and not be weirded out by it. And it's funny because nowadays, like, you know,  The husband I married is way beyond just blue fringe. He's doing a lot of things that a lot of people are still very, you know, you should get our husbands together.

They'll get along.  And I think that it was God's way of preparing me for the next thing. Even though this other guy, he was only, he pretty much sent so that I could prepare myself for this. Right.  And  I was very intentional when I was dating. I would actually keep a journal where I came back from a date and I'd write, what did I learn about myself and what did I learn that matters to me and my husband?

And it was really fun to collect this information, you know, and it was, Sometimes it was just like random things. Like it matters to me if they have good teeth or not, because I have a good smile and I think smiles are really important. And if I don't like his smile, cause his teeth are all like, you know, dirty or crooked or something, like it's going to really bother me.

And this was something that was so physical and so material. Like I was almost embarrassed to say it. Right. But it was important for my awareness so that I could just put my finger on it instead of being all like, I don't know, there's something fuzzy. I can't put my finger on, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. It's very hard to identify all those little nuances and details of what works and what doesn't work. And when you figure it out, there is this certain joy of like,  yeah, it does matter to me. Like, sorry, materialistic, just what it is. Like we're, we're a body and a soul. There's two parts to us. So there's this inside part that has to match up about who you are, but then there's this outside part about how you show up in this world that also has to be a match and it can't be this or that. It has to be this and that, that align to a degree that you really will enjoy.  Yeah. What do you say about situations where you keep going out and the same issue keeps coming up and it's like, Oh, can't, I can't stand it anymore. Like all the guys are the same or all the girls are the same, or the same issue is coming up and I'm just feeling  lost. In the, rhythm of what's going on. So  for me, I'm thinking, I'm like, they're not all the same. They're not all the same. So you must like you, whoever it is, must be doing something that is attracting the same type of person. So I would dig inside and be like, what am I attracting to myself? And what if I tried to date somebody, I would first try to go like opposite, opposite, like go totally the other way.

So for sure that you're not getting the same and see that like, wow, there is something else that exists. Probably you're not going to like it, because it's a little bit too extreme, but then I would balance back and I would start to bring yourself back to the middle, where you are trying to see exactly what does work for you and to what degree, but where you're at is drawing the same type of a thing, so what we do know is that you shouldn't keep going for what you've always gone for, and you should change it up slightly to try and get different results. 

Yeah, I hear that. When I get this question, I like to bring in the mirror effect, right? Because you walk  into the house and you see a mirror  and you see that you have a spot on your shirt. And then, you know, you start to scrub it and clean it, the mirror that is, and the mirror isn't cleaning, you know, like, I can't get it to clean.

It's like, because it's not on the mirror, right? It's on you. And as soon as you change your shirt or clean your, it's not an any mirror. Like you could walk by any mirror and not see it. So sometimes when we're being shown the same thing over and over again, it's just me having to pause and be like, where do I see this in my life?

And where do I need to deal with it in my situation? It could be very different at the same, you know, type of spot. And then, you know, and then once you clear it, you're just not going to see it again.  Right. That's a beautiful, yeah, beautiful example. I'm like, right,  right. Is it on them or is it on me? Oh, it's on me.

You're like, I keep doing it to myself. What? For real? How? That's what people want to know. How? How do I keep doing it? Are you sure it's me? Subconscious is subconscious. And I think that a lot of people, you know, how they say like, oh, Your stomach's hurting. Oh, it's all in your head. Like, excuse me. It is in my stomach.

It hurts It is a real thing, right? And the answer is yes It's a real thing and it's starting in your head, right? A lot of the things that we're worried about and stressing about It's telling our brain You have to protect me, right? And your brain will protect you by giving you physical pain so that you don't have to worry about the emotional pain, which is way more painful.

So your brain is helping you by giving you the physical pain. Physical pain is real. Let's not just say it's in the head, but it definitely starts somewhere there. So same thing, like subconsciously there is something that you need to work on. So you're going to constantly see it and be annoyed by it.

Like, Oh, why is everybody so anxious? Why is every single guy. Bringing up anxiety is one of their things. And why do I have to deal with an anxious husband? What's going on? Right? And so take a deep breath, do some inner work. Where do I find anxiety in my life? Where is it hitting me? Where is it showing up and how do I deal with it?

I think that's one of the most helpful things that I've. ever been able to uncover, even just for my own life.  Yeah, I'm so on the same page with you. And I think that the more that we can be real with ourselves, love and accept who we are and accept where we're at and say, okay, it's okay. Like I could, I just, because I have things that I have to fix also doesn't mean that I'm not exactly who I need to be today, like  in the same way that I am, who I need to be right now.

I also need to become who I need to become and looking inside and figuring that out where I have an acceptance of where I'm at enables me and empowers me to get to the direction that I need to go to the next spot to that next location. It's really, it's, it's empowering and at the same time really challenging because  I don't always want to change, you know? 

No, no. If it was up to our brains, we would be nice and comfy in our comfort zone forever. Forever. Totally forever.  After all these things that are scary and, ah! Yeah, I think. That's one of the things that you know, it brings us to the next thing that I am thinking about. A lot of people are so afraid of marriage because of the things that they have experienced on other people's marriages, like their parents or other things that they've seen that or siblings, right?

That they're holding themselves back. I know personally, a girl's Brother got divorced right before she started dating. And so like her biggest thing was, I can't let that happen to me. What was going on? How did that happen? She was trying to figure out what he did wrong and what she needs to be careful from, and it's like, He's not the same person as you, right?

Like I don't, I don't think it's going to happen to you if you just, you know, really listen to yourself and, and follow the, follow the crumbs and do the thing that is right for you. But she was so stuck on it. And you know, of course, people whose parents are divorced have a really scary time. Just in general because they're afraid it will happen to them.

What do you have to say about that?  For the people that I work with, we always talk about do you have relationship examples that are marriages that you would want to be like, right? It's like, oh, you know, my hero, like this, right? But like, what are your, who are your marriage heroes? Who are those people that you look at and you're like, I don't know.

If I had a marriage like that, I would be happy, right? Not that I want to be them, but I want a role model. I want somebody that I can look to and I can go, that's the kind of marriage that I want to have. And if it's not your parents, and if it's not your grandparents, and if it's not aunts and uncles, if there's nobody in your immediate family that you can relate to, then my advice is to go find couples.

Not just one, I mean, Start with one, but maybe one, two, three couples that you can see different types of relationships and how they work and what would work for you. So  I'll just give you an example. We used to see in our neighborhood this older couple and they would be walking down the street hand in hand and they would be at the supermarket shopping together and like literally everywhere you saw them, you saw them together.

They were always together. And I looked at them and I was like,  That is just like, oh, the epitome of such a wonderful relationship. And then I was like, Elisa,  to be together all the time means you have to be together all the time. Is that a relationship that you want? And I was like,  No.  Like, I'm with my summer, you know, we've always worked from home.

We've always been self employed. Like we see each other a lot. We can have breakfast together, lunch together, dinner together. Like, but not every second, not totally enmeshed like that. Like I. You know, I also like my own space. I also like to do my own thing. He likes to do his own thing. We like to have a little bit of independence.

And when I saw that relationship, I was like, that's not that kind of a relationship, but it's a beautiful one. And I love it.  And I look to it almost as an inspiration, but when I look at it in reality and I go, is that something that I would want to emulate for me, I'm going. It's a little too much.

Like, it's a little too claustrophobic for me. Is it wrong for them? No, it's totally right. Is it wrong for you? No, it could be totally right. But for me, it wasn't a living example. But in my brain, I'm like, but that's what I should want. And it took me a while to get out of my head and go, What is this should?

Should want what? You should want exactly what's appropriate for you. Is that appropriate for you? Yes or no? And I'm going, no, it makes me a little anxious. It's a little too much. And I had to really accept the fact that something that my eyes liked, that my brain was very drawn to, Was not going to be really good for my personal reality, even though it's a beautiful reality, it was not going to be the right reality for me.

And then I had to take a step back and say, okay, so what is the right reality for me? What does a healthy relationship, a good relationship look like to me on a daily basis? And what does that feel like? And who are the people that I know? That I would like to, like, you know, I want to be like Mike. I want to be, that's an old time commercial.

I'm telling you how old I am, but right. But like, I want to be like that, that works for me. That makes sense to me that I can do as opposed to this other hand in hand. Like, Oh, it's so cute. Like, Fine. Maybe once in a while we'll go for a walk on the beach hand in hand. Okay. We'll walk down the street once in a while.

But  not every day, all the time. It doesn't exist like that for me. Well, I just, I'm thinking to these like old people that you're talking about, like it might end up being me maybe when I'm like 80, right? Like at a certain point in my life, it might be cute to be together, but in this stage of my life not so much.

Right? And you know what I'm thinking? I'm like, now I'm thinking, I'm like, well, maybe it's for balance. Maybe they're literally just holding each other up because nobody wants to fall. Yeah, that could be me and Aidy also. Like, I don't know.  There might be other reasons that they're like that.  But even just  translating it to today, it's not a model that works for me, but yeah, it could be a model later on.

It's just not a now version. Right. Yeah. No, I think it's really fun to get to know other couples and other families. I think that's one of the things that happened for me when I left my parents house and started traveling and, you know, I came to Israel to date. So I was staying with people here that you know, had different marriages and different styles.

And I learned a lot about myself and about what I'm looking for just by seeing them and their kids, their married kids. Just getting out of your own bubble, even though my parents have a great relationship and they have wonderful marriage and I very much emulate what they built.

I also was really grateful to see other people's, you know, relationships and marriages and interactions and, you know, sort of like the dynamic between people. It was really, really helpful for me. And I think that everybody should do that. You know, find yourself as a guest in other people's homes. Try to get out, try to invite yourself, try to, you know, mingle because the more you see of the real world.

The more you're open to new ideas and new situations. And sometimes it's like, Ooh, no, that is not what I'm looking for. Right? Like I did have that too, you know, I went to a friend's house and it was like, Ooh, I can't even be here feeling really uncomfortable. Right. And it's like, great. Now I know I'm trying to put my finger on what is it, you know, look around, see what is making you uncomfortable.

I think that's one of the reasons why we like to have guests a lot is. To give these, you know, my husband's rabbi has a lot of students to give the students the ability to see something that they haven't seen before, you know? Right.  Yeah, it's very powerful. And we also, we have guests every week. We also,  we've decided like we're the kind of couple that we don't want to be without guests.

Like we're more well behaved in front of people with our, with our audience, so to speak, like we're on our best behavior, you know, instead of coming down to the table in your robe and being like, ah, you know, I'm just going to be cash. Like, like we, we show up more fully when we have people. But we also love having people cause 

we love meeting people. We love experiencing and learning new things. And I think also as a couple, we learn so much more about each other and about our family when we have other people in that dynamic and, and watching what happens. And I've noticed like, we just are who we are. Like, it's not like you have guests over, you know, you could be on better behavior, but you're not on different behavior, right?

Like you still are who you are. You might be a better version of yourself, but it's not like, Oh my gosh, we're totally different. When somebody comes over, we're like night and day. Like, no,  if we're having a little thing, you'll hear us having a little thing. And then we look over and we're like, yeah, just a real relationship.

You just, you know, saw a moment where we weren't our happiest. And they're like, okay, cool. And we're like, no, like this is relationships. Like you have to have good and other times. And. Actually, this is a really great point. People need to know how to fight fair. People need to know how to fall and get back up.

And couples that don't know how to get up after you fall, I don't have any faith in the marriage. So  when people are dating and they're like, Oh, we had this problem and like, do you think that's a bad sign? I'm like, what happened after the problem? right? Did you figure out how to resolve it? How quickly did you pick yourself up?

How gracefully did you dust yourself off? How much did you learn the next time? Did it happen again but differently? Like, did you learn something and you're not just repeating the same things over and over, right? So that to me is a really great indicator how we resolve conflict. Conflict resolution, I think, is probably one One of the largest things to predict whether a couple is going to succeed or fail in a marriage, and it's not about not having conflict.

Conflict exists, period. How do you solve it? How do you and your, your partner together gracefully move through it? Oh, you do it well? Great! Yay! Then whatever comes your way, I know you can handle it. Oh, you guys fight and it's crazy and it's like, woo! We, we, we're amazing! We love each other! We hate each other!

We love each other! We hate each other! Eh, total recipe for divorce.  So I think conflict resolution is a huge topic that's not dug into or talked about often enough.  Okay, so for the last couple of minutes that we have together, give us  one tip of how to  resolve conflict in a practical way.  So I think the first step is learning What your conflict resolution style is and understanding that, and then understanding your partners.

So, for example some couples, one side loves to talk about it, like they have to talk about it. That's how they think and they process by talking about it and working through it. And they have to do it in the moment. Otherwise, they  totally forget everything. Another person might have an avoidant type style where, I can't talk about it.

Like, I actually have to go and process and I have to go think on my own so that when I come to the table, I actually know what's going on in my head and I can express it more fully because I can't just do it on the fly. So just for example, if we have a couple like that with conflict resolution, the one who needs to talk right now needs to figure out who they can talk to when they can't talk to their partner because they still have to have the insights.

They still have to move through the process. But if their partner is not ready today, then they can't do that with their partner. I have a phrase that I say, you can only move as fast as the slowest person in the relationship. Right? So, if I'm the slowest one, if I need time to process my own thinking, you can't tell the partner, you can't tell me like, oh, you gotta Like, they need to talk to you, so you have to be available to them.

No, I can't. I literally have a story going on in my own brain. I can't talk to them, right? I have to process my story, and then I can come back. So the other person then needs to find an outlet and a resource to gain feedback, to gain perspective. And then,  You usually figure out a pattern, like, do you need two hours?

Do you need two days? Like, what's the time frame you need to process that data, and then come back and have the conversation? Another thing about conflict resolution, whoever is heated, more heated in the conversation, is  Not always, but possibly more wrong. Or at least not with the right perspective. 

I'm not going to say you're wrong, but you are totally not able to see the other side. And so if you're the more heated one, you have to go, something, I'm not seeing something clearly when I'm calm. We can have this discussion and don't dig in when you're heated. Come back to it. Let everything cool off.

It's like, you know, taking a pan off the stove and going to clean it when it's burning hot, you know, you're going to put the water on it. It's going to sizzle and like pop in your face and burn you. So don't burn yourself.  Let everything calm down, process what's going on. Be able to see from the other person's point of view.

 And you can still say, I'm right. I can see from your point of view, but I'm still right. Fine. But be able to have a conversation when you're not heated.  That would be my second piece of advice. The person who is less heated. is also more capable of seeing that this is not the right time to have this conversation because you're just too heated about it. 

Yeah, but it's really hard for them to tell the heated person that they, like for them to tell you, it's gonna, it's gonna really bother me. You're gonna tell me that you need to go calm down before we have this talk. And I'm gonna be like, yeah, you think I need to calm down, right? It's just like, it, you have to have this self awareness to,  I will ask myself like,  who's more, who's more hot on this?

Who's more hot on this topic? Oh, it's me. Okay. Sweetheart. We can't talk about this now. Okay.  That's it. We'll talk about later. Done. That's it. I can't. Right. It's me. It's me. I'm not ready to have this conversation. A lot of self awareness and not everybody has that. Well, that's why we're giving you these tips and tools and now you know. 

Now you know better so you can do better.  You got a whole lifetime to practice it and you don't just have to practice it with your person. You can practice it with siblings and parents and co workers. Like literally this is, all of this is generic advice that you could take to any relationship, but it's especially important in in a marriage and in a healthy dating relationship. 

Awesome. I love it. I love it that you trust our listeners so much to be able to like, okay guys, now we just threw something really good at you. You get a,  you know, step it up. Who's going to help somebody more than themselves, right?  And I do this with the people that I work with and I coach as well.

 I have what to share, but I can't fix you. The only person that can fix you is you. You can go to a therapist. You can get support. You can go to a counselor. You can gain wisdom. You, you want to fix your body. You can get a personal trainer. It's done with you, not done for you. So I know that I'm the only one that can really help me.

 I can get insight. I can do that. But I know that at the end of the day, you. It is on my shoulders. So I know it's on all of their shoulders. I know it's on all of your shoulders and you have to do it and you have to step up because literally nobody else can step up and do it for you. If it could be a done for you model, like no problem.

I would, I would tell you if that's true, but it's just not. You can learn the tips and tools and resources. That's what I think we're here for.  And to have the insights, but the discipline, you can have an accountability partner, but you still have to have the internal meter and the discipline to be able to gauge who you are and where you are in relationship to other, and to know when you need to back down, when you need to pause, when you need to lean in, when you need to engage in a conversation.

It's, It's all part of our life experience. And, and they're really the only ones that are ever going to know.  I love that. I love it. Okay. Aliza, how can people get in touch with you and work with you and connect with you?  Amazing. So you can find me at  my name, Aliza Ben Shalom, A L E E Z A with two E's com.

And you can learn all about the work that I do, which is We have coaching, we have courses and programs, we have workshops, we have matchmaking, you name it, we have it.  We have a podcast as well called matchmaker matchmaker, and we take one question, just one, and in about 10 minutes, we answer it and then move on.

So if you don't like one episode, you just skip it and you go to another one. That's amazing. I have to go check out your podcast now. I did not know you have a podcast. Thank you so much for being with us and thank you so much for this amazing opportunity to learn so much.

And for you listeners, thank you for listening and don't forget to come back for next week's episode. I love you all and don't forget to be connected for real.

 And that's it! Thank you for listening to the very end. I would love if you can leave a review and subscribe to the podcast. Those are things that tell the algorithm this is a good podcast and make sure to suggest it to others. Wouldn't it be amazing if more people became more connected for real?  And now take a moment and think of someone who might benefit from this episode. 

Can you share it with them?  I am Robinson Bat chen Grossman from  connectedforreal. com. Thank you so much for listening and don't forget you can be connected for real.