180. Breaking Body Image Boundaries

Rebecca Sigala is an internationally recognized fine art boudoir photographer, body confidence coach, and host of The Body Image Revolution podcast. Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman is a marriage coach for women in business. Join them as they talk about boundaries and marriage.

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 Welcome to the Connected For Real podcast. I'm Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman, a marriage coach for women in business. And my mission is to bring God's presence into your life, into your marriage and into your business. Let's get started. 

 And we are  live. Welcome everyone to the Connected for Real podcast. I'm Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman. Today's topic is Boundaries and Marriage, and I'm so excited because here today with me is Rebecca Segal  and uh,  Rebecca, introduce yourself and then we'll get right into our topic. Sure.  My name is Rebecca Segal.

I am a body confidence coach and boudoir photographer for women. I combine both coaching and boudoir photography to help women feel at peace and at home in their bodies so that they can confidently show up in their lives and their career for their kids and change the narrative and pass down this amazing new message of loving our bodies from generation to generation.

And that's what I do. I love it. I love it. So I've been following Rebecca and her journey. It's been a while. For a while. Yes. A long time. I was following you when you were just a photographer and I loved your photography, so, Aw, thank you. I think this is really so fun to watch the process of niching down, of finding your unique thing in this world.

Like really so refreshing to go from like, oh, she's the best photographer for anything, you know, to like, oh, she's specifically a photographer that will help you find your confidence, that will help you feel good in your body, that will help you  discover who you really are. I think that really shifts the whole way of looking at it. 

Absolutely. And when you said that, like niching down and finding your own unique thing, I think for many entrepreneurs we find it to be very parallel with our own personal spiritual journey. And it's just so amazing to see that it's not just about niching down so that I hit a specific market, but really finding what my purpose is, what my life's calling is, and what I should be doing in this world.

So that's what is really exciting about it to me. Yes, yes. I was gonna say, it's really fun on a business level to see how that shift  has been so, so smooth, but also I'm sure on the inside, up and down and all sorts of definitely crazy breakthroughs. And also it just, you know, in the way that you're able to specifically help people.

Yeah,  in this, in this way. So the reason why we're talking about what you do and what I do and the combination of all of, you know, this amazing work and boundaries and specifically boundaries in marriage. So lemme just give everybody a big overall explanation in case you're new to the podcast.  My podcast is built of four pillars.

So the four pillars, not just my podcast, my entire world, everything I do, it has God at the core. And then marriage and business are two pillars that have to work together for you to really have that flow and that  life that you want. And then the fourth pillar is you as the container holding all those things.

Mm-hmm. And we're not allowed to drop any of those four balls because they all matter for our being here and doing the thing we're here to do. Right. So you can't drop God. 'cause obviously you're doing this for God's sake and you can't drop yourself because then you're not gonna actually be doing the thing you're doing and you can't drop your marriage because it's the most important thing in your life.

And this is the reason why you're like doing all these things. But then a lot of people, and this is why I brought this last, a lot of people are like, okay, so I'll just put my business on hold because all these things are so much more important to me. But the truth is that you can't, because when you have a calling and when something is calling you,  yeah.

To come up and show up and be your authentic self and be who you need to be in the world. Like we were talking about your business and you know, that journey of really, really sharpening what I'm here to do. There's no way somebody can take that away from you and say like, sorry, put that on the shelf for now because you need to show up for your marriage.

Like, no. Yeah. And what does that do to your marriage? It creates so much resentment. Around. You're the reason why I can't do the thing I'm doing, or parenting you are the reason why I'm not doing the thing I'm doing because you're a little baby and I have to take care of you. That doesn't feel good. It doesn't, right?

It doesn't work. So all four have to work and all four have to be in alignment and working with each other. And that's what this podcast  is all about. So all that being said,  the structure of my podcast is that every month we pick one topic and we talk about that topic for four different pillars. So we had  boundaries in God last week, and then boundaries and marriage this week, and then boundaries and business next week. And then the week after is boundaries in you. And every single one has a different guest and a different take.  But it's really beautiful because we get to talk about the same thing from different angles and really attack  different parts of.

This really complicated topic of boundaries. And we do that with  every topic, every topic, money, time. I love that.  I love that so much. So with all that being said,  I would love to talk about boundaries specifically in marriage and  what that means. 

And it could go a lot of different ways because both of us had a lot of fun brainstorming. Oh. And,  and this is really one of these things that, wow. There's so much to talk about. So do you wanna start and then I'll chime in with some other ones that I thought of?  Sure. So I think when yeah, I was thinking more specifically about boundaries, but I think marriage encompasses so much of our lives as well and our interpersonal relationships, and it's one of the first priorities in our lives.

   And so I was thinking a lot about, when I think about boundaries, I think about creating a sense of self. And I think that's kind of what you were speaking to originally, where it's like there's all these different pieces, moving pieces of your lives and people think, well, I need to sacrifice a part of myself in order for this other thing to work.

And what you're saying is no, it's actually the opposite. That you need to actually bring yourself to each of these places. And that is so much of the work that I do where I'm helping women gain their confidence. But it's not just to be confident, it's really about finding who they are and their authenticity, their purpose, what they bring to the world, what lights them up, and then bringing that to every single part of their lives.

And that's why confidence and the way that you see yourself affects everything.  Yes. Yes. I love that. I love that When I think of boundaries, the first thing I think of is just the fence between one person's yard to the other person's yard. And it's this indicator that says, this is where I end and this is where you begin.

Yeah. And that's, I think the basic, like the first foundational thing about marriage is everybody says, oh, now we're one. And it's really beautiful. And like the, you know,  up there like  hi, the lofty levels.  Yes. And, and we are one in a lot of very beautiful ways and we also have to realize that we're actually two human beings with our limitations in this world, right?

Yeah. God created these boundaries around us called bodies, and the world is, is. Functioning on all these limitations that God put here  because we need to learn something about boundaries, about where I end and where someone else begins. Right?  And then when I think of boundaries, I also think of a container that actually can hold things, right?

You have yeah. Boundaries around the water that hold the water in place if not, the water would just flop everywhere. So yeah, your boundaries are also here to help you contain all of the parts of you and, and sort of show up  the way you are meant to regardless of what's happening outside.

I really love that and it like, it really makes me think about. Our bodies being a physical manifestation of that boundary and how important it is for us to protect that and create a space and a vessel that we feel safe in, that we feel good about. So that we can not only show up, but like just feel like ownership over who we are. 

Yeah. Let's get into that because I think that there's so much in the work that you do that affects marriage in this way  because your body is your boundary, it is your physical  you know, this is where I am and this is where I  begin and end. Mm-hmm.

Let's talk about all the effects of that. You know, the way that, yeah, the way we look at ourselves, the way we judge ourselves, the way we talk to ourselves affects, yeah.  The marriage and everybody else, everything around it.  Absolutely. So a lot of my work is based around body image, but for me, body image is not just in the traditional sense, where you look in the mirror, do I like what I see?

Yes or no? That's it. Body image to me goes so much deeper than that. It's, it's the way that we relate to ourselves, the way we think of ourselves, the dialogue we have with ourselves, how we treat ourselves. And so much of that was formed in a way that was a little bit out of our control, like from the media, from our family, from all these outside influences.

And  it makes sense that we kind of pigeon our whole ourselves into these boxes of like, well, I'm this kind of woman. I'm this kind of person. I am, I'm really cute, but I'm not beautiful. Or like even little things like that where there's just like a small little nuance in the way we see ourselves because maybe at one point someone told us that, or someone compared us to someone else, so we heard someone say something. 

And so that really sticks with us and whether consciously or subconsciously. And then that's how we relate to ourselves and see ourselves in the world. And I think that, you know,  it affects everything including marriage. Of course. One thing that I'm thinking about a lot when it comes to like marriage and the boundaries around that is like,  I hear a lot that people tell me, oh, my husband thinks I'm so beautiful and he gives me all these compliments, right?

And I can't accept them.  Yeah, I can't accept them or like I just kind of brush them off or I'm like, oh, whatever. It's just my husband. Like, he's just, that's what he's supposed to say. That's how he's supposed to feel. And one of the things that I like to ask my clients is like, well, what if you actually believed it?

Like, not just, like, not just believed he believed it, but like that about yourself. That you are beautiful, that you can, like whatever compliment he is giving you, that it's really true and you feel that in your body and in your soul. And what would be different in that moment when he gave you a compliment?

And it's always about connection. It's always about like walking towards each other and you almost think like, oh, I shouldn't accept it. Maybe that would be vain or maybe that would be like, you know egotistical to be like, yeah, I know. Thank you. But actually  when you. Don't accept that compliment.

It just brings you further apart and when you can accept it,  you're in connection with each other. You're seeing the same thing. You're appreciating the same thing, and the light in each of you that comes out is absolutely so important and beautiful.  Yeah. You know, I remember I once watched what was her name, the Empowered wife, Laura Doyle.

Laura Doyle had this like quick video thing. I watched this so many years ago. I have no idea what she's up to these days. 'cause I,  I read her book and saw like,  yeah, pretty much. But anyway, I saw this video where she was going around giving compliments to people and she wanted to see what their reaction was and like, wow, you're so beautiful.

And it's like, oh, no big deal. No thanks, whatever. Oh, this is old. I bought it at the supermarket, whatever, like. Such ridiculous responses that we have to compliments. And she was explaining that when you reject a compliment, you're not just rejecting the compliment, you're rejecting the person, giving you the compliment.

Mm-hmm. Because they tried to create a connection and you basically pushed it away. And it's exactly what you're saying now. It's what would happen if instead you just said thank you. Mm-hmm. You know, forget about allowing it to like, you know, reverberate, resonate. Yeah. Anything. Just, just thank you, receive,  be able to graciously and gracefully allow the other person to give you, without the need to do anything.

But thank you. Yeah.  And I feel like that would be step one before going  to the next step of allowing it to really deep in and, and envelop you. It's just allow it to be first. Yeah.  Get comfortable with the discomfort of it.  Yeah.  Yeah. And it's okay that maybe  at first you don't feel it, it's okay that you're not in that place where you're a hundred percent confident about  yourself or your appearance.

But yeah, but you can still, you can still not be in that place and still accept a compliment and say, thank you. That's so true.  Yeah.  Yeah. I think it's really the same as a gift, right? Somebody comes to your house and they're like, thank you so much for having us. I bought this, you know, bottle of wine, and you're like, no, thanks.

I don't drink wine. You could take it back home. Like, yeah.  That would be so rude, right? Yeah. So  there is something so powerful about saying thank you and just letting it be on the counter. Like just let it sit.  Right? And I think  if you do that, you'll slowly learn  to collect those things on your counter, you know, in your soul.

Mm-hmm. And when you're ready, you'll be able to let them in. And that's part of the work that you do, that I do, that a lot of other coaches do,  is first. Let it be, you know, like allow it to sit, meet yourself where you're at, wherever that might be. Yeah. Yeah.  And you're talking about everything that other people say.

Right? There's like the media and, and society and culture and all these things that we're working,  I, I don't wanna say working against, but that are working against her. That's how I feel. That's how I feel. I don't wanna feel that way, but sometimes it really is like that. We don't have a fighting chance.

Yeah. So I feel like they're, you know, they're working against everything that we do for our children to like, try and, yeah. Build them up. Especially now with phones and with everything that's going on, there is nothing they need, everything, nothing they need to do to be affected. It's like, just nothing.

Just, ugh.  It's so, it's such a  complicated. Season that we are in and the big picture of the world. Yeah. And people like to say that they think that like body image is getting better because of the body positivity movement. And that's not really what I'm seeing. I think there's just so much information and while there is the opportunity to learn something different if you want, there's just so much out there.

And with social media and the filters and the everything, it's, it's nonstop.  Yeah. And I think of all of this as, you know, from the point of view of boundaries of like bondage, right? We're going into Passover now and there is this like heavy, there's this heaviness that keeps you stuck, that holds you down, that doesn't let you be free  to see something different because of the beliefs that you've.

Solidified throughout this experience. So growing up and seeing all of the different things that were shown to you and the different ways that they're manipulating your brain to think something is more beautiful or less beautiful and there's something wrong with you and you have to fix this and you know what we wanna sell you so that you can be happier finally and whatever, you know?

Yeah.  All this process has created these beliefs in ourselves that are weighing us down and not letting us be who we really are. And I think  it affects marriage the most in my opinion. Because that's where.  If you were, let's say, able to hide it with your friends and you know, when you're just hanging out with people mm-hmm.

When you're invited, you know, for a Shabbas meal or whatever, you could, you're, you know, you dress up, you hold it up, whatever, fine. You, you do your thing and you move on. But when there's someone that close to you Yeah. That is  on a completely different realm of connection.  Yeah. Suddenly you're faced with all these beliefs. 

Yeah. And that's where it really weighs you down. Let's talk about that.  Yeah, I was actually recently talking to someone about this in terms of like whether it be emotional intimacy or physical intimacy. When a woman looks in the mirror and does not love what she sees or is kind of neutral or resigned to it.

Okay. It is what it is. Let me just not think about it. That's like a non-starter for intimacy. It's like it sucks all the energy, all the, all the light, all the joy out of you. And it's like,  it's a non-starter.  It's almost like having that baseline for seeing yourself in a beautiful light can create the most  incredible emotionally intimate experiences in your marriage and in your life. 

Yeah.  Yeah. Tell me more about that. Because I wanna get to a place where the listeners going, okay, now I know what my homework is, or Now I know what I practically need to do. Yes. In order, right? Because like it sounds great, and we could all sit there and smile and be like, yeah,  Uhhuh. But  then you're faced with it every day, right?

Then you go back to your little.  Cave  where you get to just be you with yourself and it's so uncomfortable that, yeah, it's easier to ignore. Well, I think that the first thing was really what we were talking about initially, where you have to get comfortable with being a little bit uncomfortable and facing yourself where you're at.

I think there's a lot of shame around body image struggles. People don't like to admit it because it's something that you can just very easily hide even in your marriage. Like when I'm working with my clients, I'll be talking to them and then at some point I'll be like, do you think your husband even knows how you feel about yourself and your body?

They're like, I think so. And then they'll have that conversation and realize he did not even realize the depth of scrutiny that she was putting herself through, whether that be when they're together or when she's out in her job or wherever it might be. No one is in your mind. No one really knows how hard and how critical you are on yourself.

Even if once in a while you're like, oh, I don't like the way I look in this, or they know that you struggle with it a little bit, they. They're not in your mind. So they don't know what your experience of yourself is. And so I think, yeah, there's a lot of shame around it. And I wanted dispel the shame because I've worked in this field for 12 years now and have worked with thousands of women and I have never met someone who hasn't had a body image struggle in some way, shape or form.

It's part of the human experience and unfortunately part of the modern day human experience. And that can mean different things for different people, but I think to really understand that it makes so much sense that we feel the way we do, that these messages and opinions that we have about ourselves are not even necessarily ours.

And realizing that we can change 'em. So that really, I think is the first step is like de selling the shame around it, meeting yourself where you're at, and starting to think about the fact that. You could shift it, it could get better. It's possible to see yourself differently. And for some reason when it comes to bodies and appearance, people don't think that's possible.

But then I'm like, but you've been in therapy for 10 years and you've changed the way you think about this and this and this and this. Why can't you do it about your body? But that's how strong of a whole, that diet, culture, and beauty standards have on us where we actually don't even think it's possible.

And it's,  yeah.  Yeah.  Whew.  Yeah. It's a lot.  Yeah. When I'm talking about bondage, I really, I feel that. I feel that with some of the people around me. I feel it with.  Yeah. I'm just thinking about teenagers. 'cause I have four,  my first four kids are, yeah. My first four kids are, are girls and they're all teenagers now.

And so there's this really strong. Awareness and, and this presence of  all of these little tiny messages and the way that they react, you know, I say, oh, you're so beautiful, and it's like, oh, leave me alone. Don't talk to me. You're such a mother, blah, blah, blah. Right?  Like this anti, such strong, because it's almost like if I believe you, then I'm gonna have to face the fact that I can't believe other things.

Like I can't, I, I don't have the capacity to hold both truths and so mm-hmm. There's just, I can't, I need to reject this right now, which is fine because I'm mature enough to let it be and, and let them grow up and mature and, and find that way. You know, everybody has their journey and also fascinating to me to see that, to, to really experience that.

Yeah.  Yeah. Absolutely. And also what I always find interesting is how prevalent it is in the religious world and you know, people who are so spiritual, so connected to Sheem and it's like,  wait, but aren't we created in the image of God? Like, aren't we meant to be here for a purpose? And also that means like our bodies were created in a certain way for a specific purpose as well.

Like it's all part of it. And yeah,  I find it interesting that like, people push this in a way, like push it away 'cause like, beauty's not important and let's focus on spirituality or the opposite. Like it means everything and not necessarily thinking about the spiritual elements of it,  right?

Yeah. Here we talk about balance all the time, and I love that you're bringing this new balance  angle.  The body and the soul and how they both have a place and they both need each other for us to be in this world. Yeah.  And so really, you know, I love that Hannah Mason said this week in her in-person.

Yeah. I was in an in-person retreat. It was so good. Nice. She's great. It was so nice. She is so fun. And she said, most people say that we are a soul in a body, but really we're a body  in a soul. Like our soul is eternal.  And the body is here to, on purpose for a specific purpose. On purpose. And you can't ignore it.

And you have to honor it, and you have the opportunity. Very limited time. When you look at the soul's eter in intern e Internality, I made up a word. Mm-hmm.  The, I love that in Internality.  I don't know. I,  I'm gonna flow with it. The limitlessness of the body is so small.  Yeah. That  we only get this much time to really be, be with it and Yeah. 

And own it.  Yeah. Right. And own it.  And there's something so beautiful about the body representing that light within you, sort of like being your face, you know, like almost like the face of the business, right. Where it's like there's all this amazing stuff happening behind the scenes where nobody could see.

Nobody, you know, like you're saying, nobody could read your mind. Nobody knows what's actually happening inside. But there is a way for you to reflect that and a way for you to hold yourself a certain way and to feel a certain way, and to allow yourself to be physically a certain way.  Mm-hmm.

That is so powerful.  Yeah.  Really as a reflection of how you see yourself,  not necessarily needing other people to see you a certain way, but reflecting how you carry yourself, how you treat yourself, how you walk through the world, is really a reflection of that self image.  Yeah. And when you put a piece of yourself, you avoid a piece of yourself like beautiful, doesn't matter.

It just matters that I'm smart and that I'm this, and then I'm that.  That's also a part of you, and so it does impact the way that you show up.  Yes. I love that you said that. A lot of people think if I just divorce this part of myself, then I will be perfect. And it's actually like, no, you are missing a part of yourself.

There is no way you can be perfect because there is almost like the bite missing and this piece is actually the thing that is going to make you feel whole. And it's going to be that part that's I'm talking about whole, and I'm remembering a long, long, long time ago,  I had a video about perfection  and I was walking with my husband and I, I, we were talking about whole wheat, and I was like, whole, whole wheat.

Huh. And it suddenly hit me and he was like, whatcha talking about?  And I remember like, I remember exactly where it was like this, like little walk, you know, like a  like so funny. And I came home and I did this whole video about how  being whole is all about the parts. Just like whole wheat is the shell and the seed, right?

 So you know how the whole wheat is made of the grain and also the external layers, like the,  which is like so interesting 'cause it's called, yes, it's called kpa. Like that's the Hebrew word for  the shell.  Right. But also is a cabalistic term for like mm-hmm.

The layers around us that are holding us almost captive. And we need to shed those in order to really shine, which is really interesting. But anyway, that was a total tangent in my head. Wow. Wow. So you have, it made me go places too.  Yeah. Yeah. So  you have the, the whole wheat,  let's say holy wheat bread is made of whole grain, and the whole grain has the non-perfect. 

And then people were like, no, let's make bread be perfect. So let's get rid of all the external stuff and let's only get to the bottom of it and make the whitest bread possible, and it's gonna be so delicious and so fluffy and so great. And they created the perfect bread, except  it doesn't digest well because  there is something missing and there's something missing is all the imperfections that we've been trying to get rid of, or actually helping us digest the world.

They're helping us. With the process  of living.  And so I think of that also in the way that we live our lives. There are parts of you that you're going to want to kill and get rid of and shed and be like, I hate this part of me, or, I don't like the way I am in this way.

And instead of fighting it and trying to get rid of it, what if we get to bring it along and digest life differently? You know, almost like go through the journey in a new experience with all of the parts of us. It's like this body image thing really speaks to me because I feel like I know so many people who reject that part of themselves. 

Yeah, and it's, it's painful. It's painful to watch how difficult it is to then go and live your life when in reality, part of you isn't living.

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Yeah. I mean, it's so true about kind of these cleos and running away from yourself in a sense, and that's actually part of my own story is when I started on my spiritual religious journey that was part of it.

Like, I thought that like this thing, these, this part of me in the past was like bad and wrong, and I had to like leave it all behind in order to  embrace goodness and God. And somewhere along the way I realized this exact sentiment where it's like, no, those things are a part of me. They're integrated into who I am and they can give me so much wisdom and so much insight and really seeing myself as a whole versus like these different parts.

Same thing with body image. When you look in the mirror and people just, they zoom in on that one thing that they don't like versus seeing the whole and the beauty of their being. And so, yeah, it's really about integrating all the different parts of us and instead of trying to get rid of those things that we think are bad, I think  the part that we need to work on is that voice that tells us that these things are bad,  right?

Yeah.  Yeah. Instead of judging, just, you know, let's look at the judgment and  sweeten it up because it's it's not fair for you to live that way. Let's get practical. Let's, you know, give some real advice about how can somebody do that for themselves. 

Body image specifically.  So. I mean, I have like a pretty in-depth process that I bring my clients through. I think, like we said, the first step is really to become aware of it and to release the shame from it. One thing that I would not suggest is to fake it. Tell you, make it.  That's something that people always say, just fake it.

Just put a smile on your face. Just, you know. But if you talk to women who have done that their whole lives, they're still in their head being critical of themselves. So this fake it till you make it has not actually worked because you're still thinking this is a bad part of me, or this is wrong, or this is ugly, or I need to hide this and just show up as whatever you wanna project that that vision of yourself is.

So  yeah, the fake it till you make it is so.  Painful. Because what it does is it even, it strengthens the way  of the way you feel about yourself when you're not in alignment. Right? Right. It's like if our goal is to be whole and to be in alignment and to feel like all the parts of us are sort of like tucked in beautifully and we're like nice and tall and we're connected and we're straight and we're lit up.

Mm-hmm. So fake it till you make it is I'm faking this aligned straight thing, but I'm not in alignment. And so that disconnect on the inside tears you apart from yourself and then you can't trust yourself. Because if I'm faking it to everyone else, maybe I'm also faking it to myself and then I can't trust myself and I don't trust my intuition and I'm not connected for real.

Mm-hmm. So then I get into all these big problems and you know, it's just sort of. It deteriorates from there. So I, I'm here to Right.  Support what you said. Don't fake it, girls. Yeah, exactly. 100%. That's actually the first module of my course is self-trust and intuition. I feel like that's the foundation of just everything  and.

In terms of specifically beauty standards and diet culture, we've been taught to not listen to ourselves, not listen to our intuition, not listen to our bodies. Like, you know, when we're hungry, don't eat instead, like, drink coffee or drink water. You know, when you're working out, work out harder than you really should because you need to lose weight X, y, Z.

Right? And we have all these  thoughts in our minds that, like our bodies, our desires, our, our physical sensations are not to be trusted. And so one of the first things I really do is help people get in touch with their intuition and their bodies. One way to do that. Is  I actually have them set alarms for, and this sounds really kind of annoying.

And I, at first did not wanna do this for myself, but then I did it and it was so life changing. For a little bit of time, I basically, every two hours I had like a really nice, beautiful alarm go off. So it wasn't like, eh, eh, you know, it was like this really nice sound. And it was a reminder for me to check in with myself and check in with my body.

And I would take a deep breath, maybe close my eyes if I can, and just say, body, what do you need right now? And just opening that dialogue with your body is incredibly powerful because you start to understand what it needs. You start to trust it more, start to respect and honor it more.

And so even before you start getting into all the beliefs about beauty and body and diets and all of that, like really just slowing down. Becoming aware of the things that you're struggling with, bringing compassion to that and then starting to connect with your body and start to trust it again.

Create a relationship with it.  I love that. You know what came up in my mind there is past, present, and future. And a lot of times our minds will go in the past and in the future and it's very difficult to get in the present. And so there's an entire movement to become more mindful and more present and be here and here and now.

Yeah. But there's something that's really powerful and that is that your body is only in the present,  unlike your mind, that can travel. Your body is just here.   I like that.  Yeah. And so getting into your body is really  the best way to get present because there's nothing else to do but to be here and.

Feel my favorite a hundred percent and count them. That's what we were talking about with like the marriage and the intimacy piece is like when people struggle with their body image or just even the way they see themselves, they're in their head, right? It's very head oriented and you're in the past, the future comparison this, that it's all very in your head.

And what working on your self image does is bring you into your body and bring you into that present moment. And nothing could be more  valuable or powerful than that for a relationship. Yes, yes. And any time, like, and you know, if we're talking practically.  The best way I know to get present is to get into your body, right?

Anytime you catch yourself in your thoughts, in the drama, in the up and down, back and forth, you know, woo, everything going on in your head, all you need to do is just, like you said, close your eyes. Take a deep breath. Sometimes I ground myself like a grounding wire. I actually will send all of my awareness down my feet into the ground and just really arrive, you know?

Wow. Beautiful. And sometimes  it reminds me, when I was a kid,  we were watching a movie and like the room was, you know, regularly lit, whatever. It wasn't anything dark or not, but we were so focused on the screen  that  suddenly there was a power outage and the screen went black.  And for a second, my eyes refocused and realized that we were actually in a room. 

And that moment of realization that like, oh,  oh, like I was so sucked into this one thing that was playing noise and lighting up and making music and, you know, doing the thing.  And when it stopped, it brought me back to where I actually am.  So it's like that, it's like that. Yeah. Like, can, can you just in a split second, bring yourself back even just for a second so that  you have the opportunity to listen if you need to.

Mm-hmm.  Yeah. And our bodies are so wise, they offer us so much intuition and so much wisdom about ourselves. And I think what you said about the fact that our bodies are always in the present, that's probably one of the reasons why, because we're disconnected from that. And, and, and connecting to our bodies really brings us to the present.

And there's just, there's so much beauty in that.  Yeah.  It brings me to my birth. Like when I think of connecting to my body. Oh yeah.  It's, it's almost That is how many births though?  Well, I went through eight. Technically nine, but whatever. Thank God. Mm-hmm. There is something so beautiful and even in that one.

It was also amazing, right? Because the ability to get into your body and to really listen and to slow down and to find out what do you really need  is such an amazing process. And you know what? It's amazing. I don't talk about the miscarriages much because it's just like, whatever, you just move on and move along.

But it's actually one of my favorite memories. It's one of the times where I gave myself the most permission to be with myself, with my body. From the moment I found out that there was, you know, nothing to do until mm-hmm. It actually, you know, came out, thank God naturally, and I did a lot of internal work to like not believe the doctors and really allow it to just do its thing.

Wow. That must have been so difficult. It is like, thank God, and it was early enough that it's not like, you know, a. Crazy experience, but just through all of the different points of that journey and how afterwards I gave myself permission to just like go shower and go to sleep. And I told everybody I'm post-birth, so you have to leave me alone.

Mm-hmm. And it's just like all the ways that I was so kind to myself.  Wow. Was so powerful.  What do you think, first of all, I'm so sorry that happened to you. And secondly,  what, what do you think allowed you to have  more, it seems like more compassion and in twoness than usual with your body.  So I was already on this beautiful journey of getting really in touch with myself and becoming more authentic and more aware and, and really it was, I. 

I already had five kids, so this was the sixth pregnancy and everybody already knew I was pregnant, so it was like, there was a lot of noise around me which was also very interesting. 'cause you know how they say like, don't tell anybody until it's like, you know, late enough.  Yeah. And, and at that point I was like so excited to be pregnant.

Everyone knew,  telling everyone and, and just the, the process I was going through internally of learning to listen to my body, learning to breathe, learning to be more  aware of, of what do I really want. What is important to me, right? Because like I was, I was a graphic designer for 15 years and that was a little bit of like the real, like the, the beginning of the pivot and what do I really want and what am I here for, and am I really here to like sit and design for people for my whole life, you know?

And do I really revisions? I'm sure.  Yeah. Yes.  I loved my clients and the thing that I loved the most was going to the meetings and making peace. Yeah. Because most of my clients, ironically, were all family businesses, like family owned businesses, and the mother and the father were always fighting about what should be done.

And the adult children are working for the parents and they're taking sides and they have to work within this like drama, you know, stressful situations. And then they sit around the table and I'm there making sure everybody is heard and making sure there's peace and making sure that God is in the room and that everybody understands that we are not making the decisions.

We're guided by Hashem. And so there's a lot of things that I was already doing that I, yeah, I just basically  rebranded, you know, in my new mm-hmm. Reality. But  that was really interesting for me. So I think, you know, you were asking like, how did I get to that place? I think all of that together, like the journey of  finding. 

Tweaking and sharpening what I'm really here for,  and then having this experience and then suddenly being told by the doctors that can't be, and you have to do this and that, and we know better. And there's something inside me that just said, no, no, I, I think it's gonna be fine. Like, I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna rest, I'm gonna do the things I need to, you know, I know what to do and it's gonna be I know my body.

Yeah. That's a very empowering feeling to have where a lot of people have that experience where they feel like a lack of ownership or self-trust with their bodies because of their medical experiences. So I think that's so cool that like an experience that could have been totally different was actually a time when you think back of  like a, a deeper relationship with your body and tuning into your self trust and your intuition.

That's really cool. You just said that and I just realized something. So, you know, you said the medical system and everything. So the first birth I had was in the hospital with epi, you know, epidural and Pitocin and the doctors and everybody knows better than me. Mm-hmm.  They're doing, they're doing it all.

And I'm just sitting here like a, whatever. Anyway, and I worked every birth to try and learn new things to connect to my body so that I can be more in charge. And the fifth one, the one before the miscarriage, the fifth one  I was at the TEUs conference and I got, there was like a Chinese auction.

I don't know if you remember that year, but there was every business owner donated something. For the Chinese auction. And then mm-hmm. Everybody got to put little cards in the little boxes of things that they wanna win. And this is also a way to get leads because now you have a box full of people and their phone numbers and emails that are interested in your product.

So it was like a win-win all around.  And I walked in and I was pregnant and I put in I put in to doula, a free doula,  and there was three boxes. One was half price, the other two  were free. One I knew about and I was like, oh, I really want this one. And the other one I never heard of. So I put a bunch of my cards in those because I thought, this is wow.

This, this is what I need, this is what I think I want. But I already had four kids without a doula. So I'm sitting there going, why would I need a doula? Like why would, why would God send me something I don't need, but whatever. I did it anyway because something inside me said like, do this.  I won the doula that I never heard of and it ended up being Kava Dumas who passed away and you know, made her memory. 

Uh, She was such an amazing person Anyway,  and thanks to that experience, I called my sister. I'm like, I want a doula, but I don't know why. And my sister says, probably God thinks you need it. Like just take it.  And that experience alone was something so powerful because she is so, she was probably still is, her soul is just so centered and so real and so no nonsense. 

And I said to her, she said, what would you wish for? And I said, I wish I could have a home birth. But my husband is medically trained. He would never allow it.  And so I'm being very respectful to him. And I want to have a home birth in the hospital. Like I wanna have that feeling and that feel, yeah. And everything about the home birth experience, but I want it to be in a way where he's comfortable and I'm not being disrespectful. 

And she was so good at creating that respect of my husband while keeping me on the bathtub and having a  non. Planned home birth  and Wow. It just, God did it. It was orchestrated really well by Hashem, but she got here too late. It was too late to leave and da, da da and like the whole thing was just so beautiful how she put him into action and go get hot water and do this and that, whatever.

Mm-hmm. Ended up having a home birth in the bathtub and it was really beautiful. It was the first time that was so beautiful.  It was so magnificent. Like, you know, just talk about giving yourself permission to dream and to desire something that you think you're never going to be able to have.

That was the first time that I could really think of allowing myself to even just say those words because I was keeping them inside for so many years. Wow. Because I wanted to be respectful as a wife, right? When I, when I think of like a doula, I think of someone who, of course is helping to bring life into the world.

But maybe even life within you, like giving you helping you give yourself permission to Yeah. Trust yourself and trust your body. And it just reminds me of the work that I do. It reminds me of the work that you do. Any healer. Like if you go to a healer and you feel like they have something outside of you, that they have all the answers, then there's usually something that's a little bit off with that dynamic.

Right. But  a healer that, or a, a helper that can bring out the light in you and empower you to trust yourself. That's, I think that's what it's all about. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that like, now that you're talking about it, that experience I think, opened me up to be able to really feel my body,  you know, two years later be like,  it was exactly two years later.

And I was like, wow,  this is so cool. This is happening. And I remember I called her and I told her I started bleeding. I think there's a problem.  And she said, okay, get to the doctor. You have to check it out. Rest, right? You know, put your feet up and rest and don't move and whatever.

And I was like, no, I'm not resting. I really wanna go out. Like I'm gonna trust myself 'cause I don't wanna miss this party just because I am.  You know, like I was so in tune that even when she told me to rest, I was like, no, it's fine. I'm doing the thing. All the, all the steps of it. Like, it's really very amazing.

Like, thank God, since I had  two intentional home births. That's amazing. But it's, it's been really interesting, the process and the journey and everything that has happened throughout the years. Like when you have eight kids, then every kid reminds you of a different time in your life, right? Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. It's like I was talking to someone and she said before the tree fell on our house, after the tree fell on our house, it was like two different eras because of the way that the tree affected their family and their home and the redesign of the whatever. Wow. So I thought, yeah, every person has that where like, there are certain situations in your life that create sort of like a,  a boundary of time in your mind.

Mm-hmm.  Yeah, absolutely. And it can be a really positive or like a challenging experience because I mean, when you're talking about how empowering this is, I'm also thinking about all the times people have shared stories with me where it hasn't felt empowering and it affects the way  they see their body, they feel betrayed by their body, they feel like their body is working against them, and then they, you know, five years later look in the mirror and they're like, I don't know why.

I don't like what I see. And it's all so deeply interconnected. I don't, you don't have to answer this if you don't want to. I don't know how personal you go. But I'm curious, like when you started having  a deeper trust for yourself and your body, did it affect your relationship with your husband? 

Yeah, for sure.  For sure. I think it's, you know, because.  The timing just now because of your questions. And I'm thinking back to timings and stuff. The timing is when I transitioned to  helping people. So I left graphic design and I pivoted to become a coach. And I didn't wanna call it coaching because I didn't like that word.

Yeah. I still don't,  I totally get that.  I was like, I'm an advisor, you know, a mentor.  I was like, I give advice. Okay, come and get my advice. And it's funny because people are like, you should go learn like therapy and stuff. I'm like, why would I learn therapy? They're not allowed to give their advice. You know, like, you're like, I wanna tell you,  I wanna tell you what I really think. 

So,  so I, I started being like, I really felt called. To, to just, you know, pivot, to start to be something different. And in the beginning it was like going from the graphic design role to like the art director, because I realized that I have more in the relationship with the people than in the actual doing the work.

And then it turned into, you know, helping with the actual relationships within the business and not so much the design anymore. And so eventually it just like pivoted itself  and. It's so interesting how much I was in my own way, like my client, who I was designing for and who then I helped with the relationship and like, you know, that whole process.

He just looked at me and said, why are you a graphic designer? You have to be out there doing this. Because in one session I was able to transform the entire family dynamic of like, everybody is killing each other. And it's so funny. But I had to get, like, he had to tell me to, to go and do it, for me to realize like, oh, he's right.

I should probably do something with this. Right. So  when bringing it back to my marriage, I think one of the biggest things was that I felt my husband was holding me back and I was really resentful of how that felt.  I felt like I, I was constantly being. Trying to go forward and being held back by the home and the responsibilities and what I'm supposed to do. 

And also my husband wasn't happy with how his,  you know, career was going and I was sort of like moving ahead. So that also was really hard for me 'cause I felt like he was gonna be jealous and I thought that he was going to be upset with me. And anytime I had a win, he would remind me of how he doesn't have a win.

And so it would push me down. And like, the beautiful thing is now that I look back at it, it doesn't mean anything about my husband because he is totally like, he's such a cool guy. And he was like, who cares? I just told you like, I didn't think it meant anything, but like, I made it mean stuff. Right, right.

So most of the drama was in my head, but it was affecting me so much. He was trying to, he was just, he was sharing with you, but you were be, you were thinking like. You were feeling guilty about it and it was just, yeah, it was compounding the evidence that like, you shouldn't be doing this. You should be at home.

Like Exactly. There's something that you should be doing differently.  Exactly.  And so, you know, all of this together  with different parts of  this work made me realize that I actually can break through and have my husband on board. Like, I don't need to choose. I think that was a really pivotal moment when, you know, we had like a big explosion type thing where like I just let him have everything that I was thinking and all the meaning that I was think I was like, you know, I was starting a fight.

People like, I was so bad,  but it doesn't mean that it was bad. It was just that I finally let myself communicate, not in a very nice way. But at least he was hearing what was going on behind the scenes. And then he started popping all of my beliefs. He's like, why do you think I'm not gonna be happy for you?

If you make more money? Like more money for you means more money for me. And I was like, oh, oh, so you don't mind,  right? Yeah. It was all these, all these things, it just came up like, who cares? So it was really interesting. Well, that's kind of the bondage I think that you were talking about in the beginning.

Like when we, when we believe certain things about ourselves, we don't necessarily think it's just self-belief. We think it's all these external circumstances and other people's opinions. But like when we do deeply shift that belief in ourself or whatever belief that we need to shift, then  everything else actually shows up differently because we just see it differently.

And yeah, I think that's, that's a. That's a really important point because I think the work always starts internally and we can't rely on other people supporting us or circumstances being perfect or whatever it might be in order to feel good and to live the lives that we wanna live. And I think  also in terms of  our bodies, we, I think externally, we think that if our bodies looked a certain way, if they fit into a beauty standard, if we lost a little bit more weight, if we got a nose job, then we'd be happy with our body, then we would love ourselves fully.

And that's never the case. It's always the internal work. It's always really how we see ourselves because you can change that thing and still have the same relationship with yourself. And so I think that that's really the deep work that both you and I do for our clients.  Yeah. I love that. I think you wrapped it up really beautifully and in my mind when we're talking about what is the first step, and it, it was brought up a couple of times with the different examples that you pushed me to bring up, which is I love, I'm like, so, you know, I'm so happy we had this conversation.

Me too.  It kept coming up about giving yourself permission to want, giving yourself permission to desire, giving yourself permission. Yeah. To own what you really want from the experience. And that's the first step. And by the way, like in the calm method, which is the method I created and, and teach and you know, use with my clients, step one is connect to yourself.

Because it is always step one and any breakthrough I've ever had, step one is always, what do you really want? Connect to yourself. Like really bring it in.  Yeah.  Yeah.  And listen to that instead of like, I think we hear something come up like, we'll ask ourselves something. And the first thing that comes up we're like, wait, but no, and we try to override it.

And it's like really listening to that intuition and what we really want because we know at the end of the day, we know and we can kind of silence the chatter and everybody else's opinion and,  and connect to that ourselves. And that's really powerful.  Yeah. Yeah. Oh, this is such a fun conversation.

Thank you. So fun. Thank you for having me.  How can people find you? Where can they give you money? How can they  become more confident and work with you?  Amazing. So  there's a few different ways, well, first of all, I'm mostly on Instagram, which actually I just went back on LinkedIn and it's really popping over there.

I'm like, wow, this is really, this is really fun as well. But I'm mostly on Instagram. I show up there mostly every single day. Rebecca Sigal boudoir, and I have a few different ways that people can work with me through my healing boudoir  experiences, which combine both coaching and boudoir photography to help women see themselves in a completely new way.

And then I also have a virtual program. It's 12 weeks program called The New Sexy. And it brings people through a incredible experience to not only see themselves in a new way, but embody this. Next level version of themselves who is confident and at peace with their bodies. And then I also, right now I actually just put out this really incredible three day course for entrepreneurs to help them unlock the confidence to show up on social media and in their business.

And I'm really excited about that as well because that's always been a big intersection in my work and to specifically help entrepreneurs is gonna be so much fun.  Yes. So that works perfectly. 'cause you know, those are the people listening. So that's really fun.  I love that intersection where entrepreneurs suddenly have to deal with other things that come up and you're like, oh, oh yeah, where did you come from? 

Totally. I mean, so much of it is about how we see ourselves and, and I see that especially in my work, in my business growth. So I'm really excited to venture there. That's so cool. Okay. Send me the link for that and we'll make sure to send it out with the email. This has, this has been incredible.

Thank you so much for coming and thank you. Thank you for the listeners for listening all the way to the end. I love you all. Don't forget to be connected for real and have a wonderful Passover over.

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