217. Perfection is Hurting Your Business

Esther Ballen is an event planner who moved from NJ to LA. She tells about the expeirences that helped her find balance, create boundaries, and lower the expectation of perfection in her business and in life. Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman is a marriage coach for women in business who helps women navigate the hard intersections so you can have the freedom to live your life the way you want. Listen to this raw, unedited, and honest conversation about perfection and business. 

 

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Welcome to the Connected For Real podcast. I'm Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman, a marriage coach for women in business. And my mission is to bring God's presence into your life, into your marriage and into your business. Let's get started.

And we are live. Welcome everyone to the Connected for Real podcast. I'm Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman, and today with me is Esther. Esther, introduce yourself and then we're gonna talk about perfection and your business. Hi, I'm Esther Ballin. I'm so excited to be here. I live in la I work both in LA and New Jersey doing events. I do primarily weddings. I do floral design day of coordinating planning, and I just really like to help people make the process easier. That's like my motto. I'm not like the most creative person in the world. I don't have all the best ideas in the world, but I know I can help them.

Their day, their, and their [00:01:00] process easier. And like that's really what I focus on. I love that because, you know, we were, we're talking about perfection today and specifically in your business. So just so you guys know the structure of the podcast, we have four pillars, God, marriage, business, and you. And within those four pillars, we take one topic and really attack it from all the different angles just so that we could get a well-rounded view on every topic.

And so this month's topic is perfection. And specifically in our business, you just said like, I'm not the most this, that, or the other, but I, I know I could get the job done. And I love that because you're already right there, not looking to check all the boxes, but really the ones that count.

Right. Yeah. I used to get a lot of anxiety, like when a client would ask me, like when I was a much more of a perfectionist, when a client would ask me for a recommendation for something and I just wouldn't have a solution for them, I would get like really anxious and feel like very incompetent [00:02:00] because I should have this answer, chefs answer.

But then I realized, you know, no one's gonna have all the answers all the time. Even I work with some of the really, really high up people that do really, really high-end events and they also defer to like researching on social media. Like, I'll get back to you. You know, no one's gonna have all the answers.

I think service is the most important. Yeah, tell me more about that. So the reason I got into doing what I do is, well, if I'm being like fully transparent, my husband's in school and I needed to make money. So he is been in school for like the past four years and obviously Hashem decided that I had a lot of lessons to learn through learning how to make money.

So. It's been a journey, but I, it really has been. But I started working in events in a wedding hall in New Jersey three years ago, and I got a lot of, like, I did several hundred weddings there. Like I got a lot of hands-on [00:03:00] exposure. I built a whole network and I burnt out like you wouldn't believe. I literally ended up in the hospital with sepsis, and then when I got back to work, I quit.

I was like, I can't do this. This is killing me. And I had no backup plan actually. Like literally I was supporting my family and I just, just quit. I was like, Kash, I shouldn't die over this. 'cause like, I was literally in a life or death situation. And then that's when my business started. Like I just kind of started telling my network, like I'm leaving.

People wanted to work with me. Thank God I built a really good network and I started getting offers. And the way I developed my business was more just connecting myself to people, to, to bigger businesses and taking work from them. So like, more like freelancing. And then as my name started to get out there, I started getting my own weddings, my own bookings and stuff like that.

And then I moved to LA a year ago, and that, that was hard to leave everything behind. But I eventually, I, you know, got [00:04:00] up and stopped playing bad for myself and started doing the same thing here. Yeah. Let's, let's talk about that transition, because when you already had built something for yourself and people know you, when there's this like feeling of, okay, this is starting to get easier, I'm not working as hard.

Yes, people are coming to me, and then suddenly it's a start all over again. But then again, you also have all of the little bugging thoughts of , now it has to be perfect 'cause I have all this experience and I have a new page that I could start. So , that's where I would think perfectionism would seep in.

Yeah. I mean it does, it really does because now all these new people are meeting me and I wanna be a true professional and be the best and make sure I do everything right. But it's just not the case. Like my personal like issue with [00:05:00] like why I was a perfectionist in business was I had like a very, very strong fear of letting people down.

Like I was just really scared of them thinking ill of me in any way in my business. Right. But then like I started to see people around me doing much more than me making much more money than I make doing a much. Less good, like letting their clients down a lot more than I do. And I'm like, wow. And not to say they're not good at what they do, it's just that it's a really, really tough industry and there's just, it's a lot of pressure.

So I kind of, yeah, I started realizing that, oh, like it's okay. And then if you wanna hear what actually happened that like broke the cycle, I can tell you. Yes, please do. It was really stressful. But I ended up in a situation this summer, so the [00:06:00] perfectionism was like a, going for a while, but I started realizing only recently that like it wasn't sustainable and that it was eating into other areas of my life.

Hmm. And then recently I was in a situation where I was running an event, a big event for a big person. I spent a lot of money and I was running it for a party planner. I had never had such an experience where a client disliked me so deeply and was so disappointed with me so deeply, and it wasn't a lot of it was outta my control a lot.

Some of it was in my control. Like I'd moved two days before the event, which was a development that like, wasn't planned. I was supposed to move two weeks before, like when I took the event. Right. And I'd never worked for this party plan. I, I'd never run one of her events before. I didn't know , what I was missing in terms of information.

And I'm like newer to the industry here. But it was just like sheer and like utter upsetness and disappointment with me, the [00:07:00] whole event. And it didn't stop. Like people were talking about me and like saying bad things and like I heard it going around and then it was a lot of back and forth between.

Me and the person who hired me and the client and a very lengthy email about everything I did wrong and how incompetent I was. And like there's no way, it was so bad. It was so embarrassing. Oh my gosh. It was so bad. It was so bad. Yeah. And I felt really, really bad for the client. 'cause this is someone's wedding.

I really just want them to be happy. Like, I wish it would've been somebody else there that they would've been happy with. 'cause I was not the right person for them. Like, it just was not a good match. They were great people. We were just like, really not a good match. And there's like some other things, but I'm not gonna get into it 'cause I don't wanna, I dunno.

But after that I realized like, hey, I let someone down [00:08:00] and the world is still turning and I still have another event next week and the next week and the next week. And like nothing happens. Then I started being able to put up like firmer boundaries and be like, no, I'm not gonna write your quote at eight o'clock at night.

I'm gonna hang out with my husband and go to sleep, and you're gonna have to wait another 12 hours. Right. And just like, it really, like spiraled a lot of peace and , I let go of more situations that were just not serving me and were causing me a lot of stress. I'm just like, Hey, I can let people down and the world can go on.

And no matter what, in any situation that I was in, I was letting people down. It was just who I was letting down. Like when I was working till 11 o'clock at night, I couldn't sleep. I was anxious. I couldn't eat. I was stressed with my kids, so I was letting myself down and my family down. But you, you know, like it's, it's always a trade off.

[00:09:00] Right. You know what I'm saying? I have a, I have a friend. I love this story. It's so fascinating that this. Had to happen for you to be like, oh, and I'm still okay. Leora Mendel, she was a guest on the podcast a really long time ago. She lives here. She's, I know her. She's, you know her. Yeah. She's really cool.

And she told us, she's like, every no has a yes and every yes has a no. So you say yes to a lot of guests. You're saying no to a quiet shabbas with your family. If you're saying yes to taking more work on, you're saying no to other things. And it's okay. You just have to be aware of it. Because we were talking about how, we're so afraid of saying no.

Hey, can you make a meal for this person? Hey, can you come, you know, help this other whatever. And it's like I don't wanna say no. You're saying No, either way. Exactly. You're always saying it's, that's so profound. That's beautiful. She sounds very wise. She is. Yeah. Everything comes with sacrifice.

Nothing in life doesn't come with [00:10:00] sacrifice. No. Not one decision. So I don't know if I would say sacrifice 'cause that's intense. But we could, but it could be a small sacrifice. Right? We could definitely find balance within all of the different parts of our lives. That's what I'm all about is finding balance between marriage and business.

Yeah. You know, I don't want people to think , oh, if you go and open a business, then you're sacrificing your marriage. 'cause that's exactly what I fight. You know? That is my, that is my fight. You could cut that part out. I didn't mean sacrifice that. No, no. It's cool. I'm, I, you know. We're talking about perfection, so we're not cutting out parts of our conversation just to make them look perfect.

But I really think that there's something really profound with the words that we use and the meaning that we give them, right? So it's when you open up a business and you do the thing that lights you up, we, some people look at it as a sacrifice. You're taking away time from your family, but then other [00:11:00] people look at it as, as a gain to the family because now you're happy, you feel fulfilled, you come back into your role as mother and wife feeling amazing, right?

Right. So it's a win-win if you do it right, but you can't let yourself burn out and feel icky and then come home drained. That's not balanced. Right? Right, exactly. Yeah. And that's why like this month after the summer, I was extremely drained, really burnt out. If I'm being really transparent. I don't actually, I'm not very passionate about what I do.

Mm-hmm. It's just what I do for work. Like, I think I'm good at it and I think I've built it, but I would say like, as soon as I don't need to make money, I will probably not be doing this anymore. Like, hopefully I'll, you know, find something that I'm a little more passionate about. But this month I was just, I just like, let go of all the noise.

I said no to any job I was offered. I said, I was like, I just need to be at home for a little bit [00:12:00] and calm down. And yeah. I was like, I totally hear you. I think this summer had that energy of everybody stop the world. Just make everything stop. I did the same thing. It took all of August off.

Really? Yeah. And the cool thing is you have to, yeah. I think the cool thing is, is that most people didn't notice, like, like you said, the world didn't break. Nothing bad happened. No, no. Yeah. I mean, you have to take care of yourself. Like there's no, no one's gonna do it for you. So like it's, if you need a break, you have to give yourself a break,

yep, yep. And the world will be waiting when you come back. Okay. Like, you're not gonna lose opportunities 'cause you take a break also. You know what, I think actually it's the coolest thing you wanna hear, like, we're being transparent here. This is coming out very fun. 'cause it's more of like conversation.

Okay. I took off all [00:13:00] of August feeling like I cannot do anything but focus on my kids and my family. Especially since we had to heal. So I paused everything. We didn't even put out that many podcasts. Like we were just very turned off and, out of nowhere. Two people signed up to work with me.

Mm-hmm. While I'm away. You're saying the world will wait for you. They were literally waiting for me. That's amazing. I walked in and it's like on September 1st, back into my job, back into my business, I put the kids in school and I started showing up and I have two new clients. That's amazing.

And I love it. I'm , and by the way, I am passionate about what I do. I love that for you, just in case you guys are wondering. But like, I love that you're aware of it because you're still doing an amazing job and you're still taking your job seriously. Of course. Yeah. So just [00:14:00] because, yeah, just because you're not like married to this job forever doesn't mean you're not doing a really great job while you're at it.

Like, I wanna make that really clear. 'cause like you're really good at what you do. Thank you. That's so nice of you to say. I think what I do is like really important because this is people's weddings. Like I'm not gonna be the person that doesn't have a bride have the wedding. She wants, you know, , I'm gonna make sure she feels taken care of.

She, you know, too important. And I still think it's like a really good opportunity. I think people would kill for what I do, not kill, that's a bad word, but like, I think people would really, like, I still appreciate the fact that what I do is interesting. Yeah. And dynamic. And I really get to have an impact on a very important part of Tommy's life.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Making life easier is, is a really great value. Really. Say more on that. I mean it's a lot of what I do, but I feel [00:15:00] like. We've grown up with the narrative that like, you know how hard I worked, you know, how long I walked to school, you know, what we had to do for this, that, or the other.

Life had to be hard. And so we felt bad having things easy because we were just told how hard things are supposed to be or how they used to be and how dare you complain about things being easy or how dare you even take it for granted? How dare you like allow it to just go smoothly. And there's so much.

Subconscious guilt of Yeah. Having a smooth, nice, normal life. We pride ourselves for being busy and for Yeah. Burning out stressed. Yeah. Right. Oh, I'm so stressed. I'm so stressed at work. No, I'm super busy. I'm like dying. Yeah. That's not a cool thing. No, you don't get extra credit. You don't get extra credit.

No. You just like really exhaust your organs. [00:16:00] Exactly. And so as much as we can lean into ease. Yeah. I am a big, big fan because life is hard anyway. Just because you're letting things be easy Yeah. Does not mean that you're not gonna have a lot of weight to lift and a lot of muscle to build.

Right. And that's a good thing. We want it to be impactful and impactful things take energy and, and you actually, we take energy, but like. You don't have to do it the hard way. You don't have to complicate. It's, you don't have to be perfectionist about it. Right, right. Yeah. And I am very much, I came from a graphic design world, so I remember that, yeah.

I did 15 years of graphic design. In the beginning. I wanted everything to be perfect and I would stay up all night, perfecting things. Every line was in the right place, every font, everything. To the dot. [00:17:00] And, and that was like during school when we were still just doing our own projects. You didn't have a, a boss, nobody told you what to do.

Right. And then, and then I remember I got my first job and I'm like sitting there for like three hours perfecting this one Disney princess chair or something. 'cause I used to work for a really cool company. We did like Disney and Nickelodeon and all sorts of really cool things. That is really cool. It was super cool.

I'm like so proud of myself for that. Now I get to tell my kids like I designed that. Anyway, so that's really cool. I spent like three hours on one thing and the lady in charge of me came over and she was like, this is what you've been doing all day. There's no way we're doing that, you know, really.

And very, very quickly I realized that actually time is money and we have to get these things out to China, right. Asap. Because every day that passes. Yeah. Isn't [00:18:00] manufacturing something that we could be selling in Target and in Walmart and so every day costs you money. Every day costs you money.

Yeah. Yeah. I had to learn to do things quickly and anytime there were mistakes. You would just fix them the next round because you're, you're right. Constantly making, yeah. Perfect. But like it really wasn't worth it. Right. Right, right. That's something I've also recently adopted. It's like instead of looking at things from all angles and making sure, I think it's perfect, I just submit it to the client and I'm like, how do you feel about this?

And sometimes they're like, this is amazing. And I'm like, wow, I could have spent three more hours on that, you know, before I sent it to you. I'm like, if they don't like it, fine. So they're slightly, you know, you have to work with them, but maybe it's gonna be great for them. And I find that so many times, it's, and I didn't have to put it in an extra three hours and they're genuinely thrilled.

And it doesn't mean it wasn't my [00:19:00] best work. It means I service them the way they needed to be serviced. Right. And also. As a graphic designer, I was giving people a lot of options. It wasn't serving them to have a lot of options 'cause they were just getting confused and they were very unsure of what to choose.

Like, you're the expert, I don't know. And if I gave them just like two options, three options, this is the one I like, this is just a little bit more this and this is a little bit more that, what do you prefer? Right? It was so much easier for them. Right. So a lot of times we think we're doing them a service, but we're not.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, and that's some one area where I felt that my perfection really held me back because I service them the way that I would wanna be maximally serviced. But really the way everyone wants to be serviced is completely different. And we have to listen to what our clients are saying. And here, you know, some clients want every option in the world and then they wanna [00:20:00] go through every option and understand the details and to make an informed decision.

Some of our clients want to be told what to do, and that's it. And then they're, they're gonna leave you alone. They don't have the, everybody has their own way that they need to be serviced. And I think being in the service industry in any way is, it's all about being intuitive and listening and being , okay, what do you need?

And that's what I'll do if I'm servicing everyone the way I wanna be serviced. I'm really not servicing anybody but myself, or I'm only serving servicing 50% of my clients. Right. But I'm just keeping myself happy, making myself feel good. Right. Also, I'm just thinking of some examples of where I use this.

So one of my clients was, is working on a website and. They had a designer and she was supposed to do a great job, but they're not happy. And then when they asked for edits, the designer was like, no, edits are gonna cost you. So then they like I don't know what to do. So I, you know, because I'm a designer and [00:21:00] because she's my client, so they get, they get the whole bot plan experience.

You get the whole barhan experience. Yes you do. I like all in in your business. So she sent me the website as is. We went through and I told her what the most important things had to change. The order of the things, this isn't looking right, it's hard to read this, like very important things. So these are priority, everything else is not.

So just get this done. She did it and it looks amazing. Even though I could still go, I like, I went and said, look over here. It's still hard to read over here. It doesn't make sense over here, whatever. But , it's already down so far that people don't even scroll there anymore and it's not that important.

Yeah. You know, it's like, it's readable enough, the color is fine, whatever. Yeah. It's like, it's not worth your time. Just like, [00:22:00] okay, at this point we say, great, move on. Right. And that is a skill that we have to learn in order to run a business. 'cause if not, we're just gonna get sucked into every little detail.

Yeah. And then they stop you. Like the details just like stop you up and then you just look at anything done. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Hey, before we continue the episode, I want to ask you something. Are you ready to get answers from God directly, feel more in love with your husband and more supported than ever? Run the business of your dreams without having to sacrifice any other part of your life? That is exactly what my one-on-one private coaching is for, and I want to invite you, just you and me.

For a free deep dive discovery call, this is a 60 minute free call where I ask you lots of questions and we extract the three main things that are holding you back. [00:23:00] I then put together a personalized plan for you where I create a roadmap of recommendations. With practical steps, the call is free and so valuable in itself.

So go book yours today. Now back to the show.

I'm trying to think of what other. Ways we could look at perfection and specifically in business. Is there anything that comes up for you?

I think it's important to understand two things about perfection. This is my humble opinion, I'm not an expert, but one is where does it come from? Like your perfection is blocking you from something. For me, my fear is the fear of letting people down.

For other people it's a childhood trauma for other, like everybody has like perfection is blocking them from something else. Perfection is a symptom not the cause. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So [00:24:00] I feel like, yeah, so I feel like that's like a really, really big one. Perfection. Say like another example would be like something I used to have also, I think I read a while ago, but.

I would be, I would hide behind perfection 'cause I had a fear of being seen. Mm. So if I'm not going to put it out until it's perfect, then number one, it blocks people from seeing it, which protects my fear of being seen. And then number two, it's perfect. So hopefully it would minimize the criticism or it'd only get positive feedback.

But like, you're never gonna make everyone happy in business, especially if you're successful. People are definitely not gonna, you're definitely gonna get negative feedback if you're becoming successful. I remember when I used to post on TikTok, I would get, like I, when I would get comments, I would actually get scared.

I'd be like, oh no, what did somebody say? What if they said something mean? And if they did, I would spiral. And it was all like a fear of being seen and you know, not being, not being confident and refiling over and over and over again. So Kathy Heller had a [00:25:00] podcast and that was one of the first podcasts I ever listened to. Like it was her and Steph Crowder.

There was like a bunch that I really liked. And, and one of the things she said was that when she started her first episode, she recorded it three times, and at that moment she realized she will never have a podcast that was successful and running smoothly if she does this to every single episode. So she has a rule one take.

And if it makes no sense, and if I mess up and if whatever, then they're just gonna deal. Everybody is gonna decide if it's right for them or not. Right. And that's the end. And she has such great, open, honest conversations with people because it's just, it is what it is, you know? Right.

I mess up, I move on. There's just nothing to do about it. I'm not gonna restart just because I said the word wrong. And it was so inspirational that when I started my podcast, I actually. Decided to go [00:26:00] live and this way, there's no way I could go backwards. You know? It's like we're already live.

There's people on the line, they're watching on Facebook, live, on YouTube, live on LinkedIn. Mm-hmm. There is no way that I am stopping now to just, right. That's more embarrassing. Yeah, that's even worse. So, yeah, I put myself on the line and this was the way that I was able to just do it. That's really cool.

Yeah. It's just sometimes you just have to like put yourself out there and once you start, it's more embarrassing to stop, like to continue, so. Right. Exactly. Yeah. I had another thought about this one, but I forgot what it was. Also you were saying about like this Kathy Heller podcast that she had rule one take and if you believe that Hashem is guiding your conversations and that people need to hear what you're saying. Then I think [00:27:00] being a perfectionist kind of also blocks that flow of energy, right? If you let it just be organic, you never know, like how your most chaotic videos could inspire people. Mm-hmm. And if they're so , refined and so perfect, you're like, God's like, I want you to say this.

I want you, but you're like, no, no, no. That doesn't sound good. Right, exactly. You know, was this person needed to hear it? Like, now I need to use another person to get that message over. And it could have been you, but you, you blocked it with your perfectionism. Right. You know, one of the things that I've realized about AI and all these, like, you know fake, videos or things is that yeah, they work really hard to add imperfections.

Yeah. On purpose. So that crazy. It sounds human. Yeah. It cracked me up when I was like, I was, you know, some pop-up ad came on. It was like this voiceover thing is going to speak [00:28:00] exactly like you. Even with the ums and the likes and all the stuff, and it's like, we work so hard to get rid of these things and you're putting them in on purpose.

Yeah. Wow. That's really contradictory. Yeah, right. Like of what we think. Yeah. And that's, that's exactly why. It's because your brain. Rejects perfection. Like if you saw someone who already had it all together and she was just like walking around, oh yeah, I have a hundred kids and I have a business that's succeeding and I eat everything I wanna eat.

And it's like, I look perfect and I'm always, you know, this, that and the other. And made up. And you know, my always like, every single hair is in the exact place. You're like not relatable. No thanks, bye. Yeah. You know, because there's nothing I could learn from you. You're perfect. Right, right, right.

Or you're just lying. And in that case, no one likes an authentic, no one likes people who are inauthentic. Exactly. So I [00:29:00] had to really lean into that. One of the biggest things was like, how can I talk about marriage if I'm not perfect in my marriage? Right. You know? And that's a huge thing for that.

How can I help people? Yes. If, if I am unable to be , as perfect as I wanna hold myself up to be, but really nobody wants to listen to me. If I have a perfect marriage, I would have nothing to talk about. And also I would be completely not relatable. Right. You would be completely not relatable.

And that's like another example of perfectionism is that you think you need to be perfect at something to help other people with it. And that's a hundred percent false. First off, all, if you were perfect, we would wouldn't be alive. We'd be done. Right. Right. And second of all, the way I, I had this issue 'cause I went to school for nutrition, actually.

Mm. Like my background actually in Israel when I used to live in Israel. Holistic nutritionist, and that's what prevented me. I started a practice when I was very young and I had clients and [00:30:00] I had , a clientele and everything. And the reason why I stopped doing it was because I felt like I was struggling too much with my health.

How could I help other people, right? Like I am a walk in contradiction, like I had all these imposter syndrome, these things. And now looking back when I'm older and wiser a little bit, I'm like, first of all, that's, there's so much to unpack there. 'cause number one, if a m wants you to help somebody with something, you're gonna be able to help 'em with it no matter what your physical experience is.

And number two, let's say trying to get from letter J to letter K, like I'm up to letter letter like J in the alphabet. I dunno if you got my analogy and I'm trying to get from J to K, but I, I can still help somebody get from A to B even if I can't get myself a hundred percent. Like I'm at 50 and I'm trying to get to 60 and they're is zero and I can get them to 10.

Do you get what I'm saying? For sure. Right? Like, and you know what? Really, you know what's really cool? I've helped women succeed in their business past what I am making. [00:31:00] Right? Because it really doesn't, that's pretty cool. It doesn't have to do with how much I'm making or how much my capacity is.

They had something blocking them. I helped them realign, adjust a little bit, figure out what was stopping them from making the money. They have a breakthrough and they're making a ton more money than I even imagined about, and I, it has nothing to do with me. And I think that's one of the biggest things about perfection, is we make it about ourselves.

Yeah. And as long as you are thinking about yourself, you're not thinking about the other person. If you really wanna help someone else, then get out of the way. It is not about you. Right? Right. If a show wants to help somebody, I'd use you as a vessel. Like, get out of your ego. Yeah. You know, like that's the way I look at it.

Like surrender. if you're gonna try to be a perfectionist, you're right. It's about you. It's about your ego. It's about soothing your own sense of self. Yeah. [00:32:00] Yeah. I really, it's very deep, deep. I really like how you talked about the perfectionism being a distraction or like the thing we use to hide behind, because I think that's one of the biggest things that holds a lot of people back.

You think so? Yeah. first of all, we really care about what people think about us. 'cause you know. It's only natural. We are part of a bigger, you know, community of humans and we want to belong. Yeah. And so if people think badly of us, then what happens? What's gonna happen?

They're gonna kick me out. I'm gonna be not part of everyone, whatever. But like, yeah, it ends up holding you back from doing the thing that you're here to do. And I think that's really a disservice to the community, a disservice to the world. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think what you're describing is the fear of rejection, right? Right. Like, if you do something that people think is weird or off, or socially inappropriate, like you're gonna [00:33:00] get rejected from some circles.

And as human beings, we, we are so scared of rejection, it's very natural, you know? 'cause I think back in the day, rejection meant you needed your tribe to survive. Right? Physically. So if we're rejected, then . It's, I think it's like a very innate fear that we all have. But you're touching on something so important that like, the world needs you to be yourself.

Right? What, what do you suggest is a practical thing for them to do or think when they're in that situation? What kind of situation where they're like, man, I can't, I can't do this thing. I can't go live, I can't, walk up to someone I can't sell, I can't offer, I can't, you know, like, what are they gonna think?

How's it gonna come across? I can't post, I don't know, whatever is in your way. Yeah. Well, even looking for solutions, I think as a symptom of perfectionism. Just do it anyway. Like that's like, that's the short answer. But I feel like [00:34:00] you might have better answers to this than I would. But I just, I keep going like, just stop.

It's all in your head. It does not exist. None of it exists. I mean, I'm a huge proponent of taking time, listening to people who know more than me, journaling, reflecting meditation, somatic work, I connect with myself and I, I get answers and I, I work through them and I, there's definitely that internal emotional work that needs to happen.

And I think every entrepreneur does that. It's difficult to be a successful entrepreneur, especially in the service space without doing that work, right? But, show up scared. It, it, it's, you know, anyone who has anything that you want went through what you're going through. And as you achieve more success, I think the discomfort only gets to be more.

Hmm. So, yeah, you know what I am, I was actually [00:35:00] thinking the opposite. It's like the more you do something, the less uncomfortable it is because you're already doing it. I think you just get more comfortable being uncomfortable. Ah, that's interesting. But it could be both. Yeah. You get more comfortable being uncomfortable.

I think we have a very negative, at least this was true for me, I had a very negative view on the concept of being uncomfortable. I really tried to avoid discomfort. So, but then I realized that everything I wanted was just on the other side. , here's me, here's discomfort, here's what I want. So you start realizing that discomfort's a good thing and it gets you what you want.

And I think most people never get there, and that's why people don't get to achieve what they want. Nobody built a successful business like you went live for your first podcast. So you did not give yourself an out. That's insanely uncomfortable. Nobody builds a successful business of be uncomfortable.

Right. You know, childbirth is uncomfortable. Buying a house is [00:36:00] uncomfortable. , but you know, what else is uncomfortable? Staying where you are now and looking back in a year and being like, I didn't again change it. So, so, Hmm. You know, I was, was thinking, I was thinking back to that very big flop of a wedding that felt really uncomfortable.

You know? That's awful. It's like they're unhappy with me. I messed up, I failed their expectations. Yeah. There's no way I could redo it. 'cause they're not getting remarried just for me, you know? So. It seems that, you know, you ruined, quote unquote their wedding, but I was thinking you actually saved them because in every wedding there's going to be something that's going wrong and something that isn't perfect.

And, lot of times we take credit for that. It's like, oh, I should have done this, that, or the other. Like, having someone else to blame is so nice, you know? It's so nice. Right. So like you're giving them [00:37:00] someone to blame. Right. And it's fine. , I blame me. Go ahead. You know, I know as long as you're happily married and everything worked out and Yeah.

But it's also all about perspective. What you're saying makes so much sense. 'cause a week or two later I was doing another wedding and I would say nine out of 10 out of the 10 things the other client complained about that I had done, happened at this wedding. Because a lot of them are very natural.

There's no way to avoid a lot of the things that came up. For example, running late on a timeline, you know, post clip of photos taking forever. There's certain things that nobody can really control. And so many of those things went wrong at another wedding I was at and the client was thrilled.

They were so happy. Everything went so well. Everything went so beautifully. So , so much of it is perspective. Yes. I was like, yeah, and that's why you're like, it was just a bad match because it was not a good match. [00:38:00] Maybe there was different expectations maybe. Yeah. You know, whatever it is.

But like in reality. Something could be the best thing for one person and the worst thing for the other. Yeah, exactly. And it's all about the way you look at it. I love that you brought that up. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I'm not into like excusing myself. I also have this belief and it's a little esoteric.

It's a little like out there and mystical, but I'm very into these things. But like feelings come straight from God and it's never the person in front of me who's hurting me. That's actually hurting me. And if I was supposed to experience shame and embarrassment and the concept of being broken down, it was gonna happen some way or another.

Right. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I got lucky 'cause it happens in a work environment and no one was hurt and no one was injured. And I learned a lot from it. Right. But I was supposed to go through that, you know? Yeah. And I was thinking of it from the other side, like this [00:39:00] bride had to have a messed up wedding and it just happened to be that you were involved.

Everything is orchestrated, you know? Mm-hmm. It's not always things that you can control. And that's okay. Yeah. Let go. There's nothing you could do. Yeah. I love how nothing broke and everything is still functional, that is such a huge life lesson.

Yeah. You know, like, take a deep breath, everything is still running, everything is fine. The world's. Yeah. And, and no matter what kind of whoever would've ran that wedding, just like I was supposed to have a really difficult night that night, that client was also meant to have those, that same experience.

So it was a bad match or it was a match. Not, and who knows. I'm kidding. I love that. It's very, it's, it's profound. It's, it's, that's, I go a little too deep into things. I'm a ce so I'm just like. [00:40:00] Everything's very like emotional and spiritual and nothing's random. And that's just how I think. You know what, and if nothing is random, then the imperfections are also not random, you know?

Right. So what we think is, oh, it's my fault. I messed it up. I said it wrong. Whatever is actually exactly what needed to happen. Yeah. We think we're controlling a lot more than we actually control. Yeah. It's our business. Of course, we're in control, right? Not really. Yeah. So after all the things we talked about, what comes up for you to wrap it up and, and give advice or practical tips or anything that, that you want the listeners to hear about?

I feel like you would be a, like, I wanna hear what you have to say on the topic more than me. I do like. I, I shared my thoughts now I wanna hear what you have to say. I feel like I haven't coached people, like you've [00:41:00] coached people and you're like, what's a perfectionistic trait that you see comes up with your clients?

I think perfection is a lot of noise. It's what you're supposed to do, how things are meant to be. And, when we are in that place, we're basically fighting, fighting reality, you know? Yeah. It's not supposed to be this way, you know?

Yeah. You're supposed to do it this way, and, and then suddenly it's like, wait, what? Who decided, right. And who made that rule? And how come, you know, I am working? Towards a standard that is impossible, just because in my head, that is what it's supposed to be. So it's, once you realize that perfectionism is actually external noise, you can shut it out.

Just like, you know, let it go, turn inward, find what you want. You are going to be [00:42:00] able to get to what you want pretty easily, with a lot of divine assistance. And a lot of times, you know, when you're going for big things, you want something big, you pray for it, you go for it, and you're guided to it, right?

Mm-hmm. Because that's, you know, that's just how life is, is programmed. God has created this world so that we feel like we are part of the conversation, that we're part of the action, that we have a part in what's going on. In reality, God has a lot more control than we give him, and he is orchestrating it for us to feel like a part.

Mm-hmm. And so it feels really nice when you succeed and you realize that it's not all you. Yeah. And then you also have to remember that when you fail, it's not all you. Right. Right. And we have this [00:43:00] tendency to be like, when I succeed big time, it's like, woo hoo, yay. whatever. But like, don't forget, it's all God.

It's all God. It's all God. But like, when we fail, it's nothing, nothing that to do with God. I let him down. Right. I messed up. It's all me. I'm gonna sit here and cry and feel bad for myself. where is God now? You know? Like when you were successful, you brought God into it, like Right. A lot of people are afraid to be successful.

Yeah. Because they think that they're going to lose the connection with God, but in reality, really. Yeah. Interesting. I I could hear that. I could hear that. Because they say, oh, when I need things and I'm poor, then I ask God and he makes it happen. But , what if I'm rich now and I don't need him?

How is my relationship going to be? So actually it's going to continue because you are a connected person who brings God into it. So you're not gonna lose that connection. Right. If anything, it's only going to get stronger and you're going to [00:44:00] be able to afford a lot more support in growing that connection.

Yeah. I heard yeah, Yael Trusch talk about the amplifier money mm-hmm. Is amplifier. Mm-hmm. If you're a good person, it will be, you're, you're gonna be an even better person. Yeah. If you're a bad person, you're just gonna be a much worse person. Yeah. Yeah. But not, it has nothing to do with you.

It's just an amplifier. So in reality, we have a lot of very. You know, frustrated people who are sitting there going, oh, it's me, it's all me. I did wrong. I failed. Right. I messed up. Right., can you imagine if you would say, you know what, I messed up this wedding. I'm not doing it ever again. Right. I'm canceling all of my future weddings.

Everybody who's already booked is being, pushed aside. Right. I am not doing this anymore. Right. What, doesn't make any sense. Right, right. Sense. And it's because [00:45:00] it's like as if you are taking all the credit for that failure. Right. Right. It's really, but there's messages there for you.

The situations that were meant to happen were, were preordained, they were divine. Yeah. You know, so it's one more thing that's interesting that I wanna share that's feel really prevalent to perfection. I wish I remember. I know who talks about it, but I wish I remember a source for it.

Oh, I think this is like a cabella course that I took that talks about the concept of the first place that the rah or the opponent of evil inclination will trip us up, is causing us to make a mistake, causing us to fall. But then the second place that will trip us up is making us feel bad about the mistake or wherever it is that we fell.

And I think that's what happens with perfectionists is, you know, we make a mistake, it's not perfect, or we're we're scared. Let's say you decide to go out there and it doesn't go that well, then [00:46:00] you're beating yourself up over it, right? And that puts you in a place of shame, which spiritually is a really, really detrimental place to be in business wise.

You're not gonna be attracting abundance, and if you're, if you're not place of shame. So. If, like, if you put yourself out there and then one second, and then once you're ashamed, you're like, oh, I'm ashamed. I'm ashamed. I'm not supposed to have shame. So then you're fighting the shame and that, and then you're angry at yourself for feeling this way.

Yeah. And it, it's a total spiral. I totally love this. Such a good point. Yeah. The spiral. The spiral is real, but sometimes the spiral is the test. God's forgiving you for whatever you did. He already told you that, but sometimes, like the spiral of how are you gonna react to making a mistake is the test itself.

It's not actually the trip up. That was the test that was preordained. Your reaction is how you can choose to expand and grow or stay where you are. I love that. That's so, that's so [00:47:00] good. That is so good. Yeah. That's David Gim. That's so, I, I like whole, I really like it. You know, one of the things I love.

I do with my clients. And I tell you guys all to do it too, is journaling. And I have a whole training on how I journal so that I don't make it perfect. I just make a line, keep going on the same page. Just write the date, keep going.

Make a line. Write the date, keep going. Yeah. Don't use the same pen. Don't care about your handwriting. You are not allowed to care about anything. It's just keep going, keep going, keep going. The rule is don't leave empty spaces and move along. I'm now in book 17 Wow. Of my journals because I just keep going and you know what, right?

I don't write every day. Sometimes I have weeks where I don't write. Right? Nobody says there was a rule about making it perfect. Right? You just have to sit and express yourself when you [00:48:00] feel like you have to sit and express yourself. Right. Or think on paper, or pray on paper, there is really great things you could do with a journal.

Yeah. And one of the things I love is just writing down like all the things I learned from, and then pick whatever situation just happened and make a list, right? All the things I learned from this coach, all the things I learned from this podcast, all the things I learned from this mistake, all the things I learned from this program.

Every time there's something that I can unpack and learn from, I do because it's worth every penny. You are saying every, what's worth everybody, every sitting yourself down, like lets say, oh yeah, your time. I think it took a course, right? The course cost $5,000, whatever it was, or $2,000. It doesn't matter.

The course was the course. You got everything you got from the course, you went through the course, you got whatever. You have your notes, like you really did the stuff, but sitting down at any [00:49:00] point. But really like after you're finished with the course, you graduated, you sit yourself down, you're like, all the things I learned from.

This course. Mm-hmm. Number one, I really like courses number two. I really enjoy the people in the course. I thought it was a great fit. Why was it a great fit? You know, this, this, and this. All the things I learned about myself, all the things I learned about the world, all the things I, I learned about other people.

there's so much to write. And my coach told me once to do like 25 things I learned from this flopped launch. It's, you could get so many more than 25. Mm-hmm. Just by, yeah. I mean, yeah. And I, yeah. I mean, it's our job to integrate the experiences that we have. Like God gives us the knowledge, like, what is it called?

The, like Daina. Right? So he'll give you the knowledge, but you sit down with a pen and paper. You're doing the bina part. You're doing the integration part. That's how you do it, is you, you give space to it. And then anything else God wants to communicate like he [00:50:00] can, 'cause you're making space, right. You know?

And also when we're talking about all this spiraling of shame and all the, all the emotions. When you pause and sit down to learn, what did I learn from this? You know, just awareness of like, what happened. You're like, oh, you know, it's not like I thought I had an investment. Right. It was a very big investment.

And halfway through the program, it was a year long program. Six months, six months in, and it started going downhill and it was such a flop, the first six months. Amazing. Changed my life. Second, six months, not so great, eh it was like she ended up closing the program by the end of the year.

She didn't continue. Really? Yeah. Wow. She was even saying , I'm not in it anymore. I don't even wanna do it. I'm done. If anybody signed up after like, you know, the people who signed up after us already got their money back for the end, like [00:51:00] the last two months or whatever. So interesting. But , it was the end of my whole full year, so I didn't get anything back.

I felt like, man, I lost out so much. Here I was invested so much money, so much time, and I didn't get my money's worth. As I sat down with a pen and paper, I'm like, really? 'cause there's a lot of money's worth I got, you know? And when I really broke it down, I realized that just ROI like just the numbers.

I made three times as much as I invested really, you know, like, I think it was a 10 k course, like the, the whole year was 10 k. I made 30 K in six months. The six months that were good. Wow. The six months that were good, I tripled the investment. Wow. And everything I learned from that course was evergreen.

Right. Like, I was able to use it forever. I, [00:52:00] it wasn't Wow. Like real things I learned about myself, about the way that I work with my clients now. I have so much gratitude for having that course. And now thinking back, I feel like God opened up that program just for me. Like that is why it was open for a year, you know?

Right. And I like, I got the best experience and now I think back, I don't feel bad about myself and I don't beat myself up for joining a failed course. I actually feel really. Grateful and proud that I got so much out of something that other people were complaining about so loudly, look at that.

All these people, like you say, it has to do with the perspective. Yeah. All these people were , ah, it was terrible, whatever. And I'm sitting here going, wow. Best thing ever. And that, that's so interesting. Integrated into my body and into my nervous system so much that now anytime I have an opportunity to join any program that is any amount of time, any [00:53:00] amount of price, any amount of anything, I sit down with my body.

Like I really have this process of making a decision about which programs I join, I know. I trust myself and the decision that I'm guided to make so much that I never, ever lost money on any of my investments. I'm always doubling or tripling the investment because I trust that it's going to. So I sort of have to, like, I go in knowing it's gonna have to work, right.

And I won't, I won't jump into something that doesn't feel right or like I really know how to listen to my intentions. It's what I teach, right? So I have to live it, right. But I, even the biggest flops of, of programs, I'm able to see all the things I got out of it and I'm like, wow, look at that. It's so cool.

Right, right, right. 'cause you, you invested, and. That's like part of the world is like you [00:54:00] put out energy, you get in, you get energy, you put out energy, you get energy, you know? Right. That's, yeah. That, that's amazing. Yeah. Ah, I love it. I love it. Yeah. This is, this is coming out so perfect. Yeah. Yeah.

That, that's good. Yeah. And when also I, I also feel whenever I invest in something for myself, it always comes back to me so much more than I put into it. Yeah. And we're, you know, I was just talking like numbers. Yeah. The amounts of other things that are non-tangible are totally worth it, you know?

Right, right. What is it? There's this rule of the universe that I hear these manifestation coaches talk about a lot, that the universe wants you to jump and then the universe will make it, or the creator, God, however you relate to the divine power in the universe. The universe will create a bridge.

It's not gonna create a bridge, and then you walk right. You jump, you make the leap, and the universe will catch up and hold you. But you know, first, so first you have to [00:55:00] leap, which is anti perfectionist in every single way because perfectionists like to control the outcome. They like to know what's gonna happen.

But miracles happen in the unknown space. Right? Definitely, definitely. And it's just so hard as a perfectionist to walk on air. You know, like even now I'm thinking of my, of my life right now, and I'm thinking , I don't know, if I have the emotional energy to jump into something that is bigger than myself obviously right now in my, you know, emotional state of like just coming back to work right from, from the, yeah, from the terror attack or whatever.

But, i, it takes a lot of inner courage, like that inner energy, but I think that is the work, you know, people think the work is, and it is also true, like making the website, getting educated, building the [00:56:00] launch. That is true. You need to do those things.

But the work is the internal work. That's what we're here for. Your business and how successful your business is gonna be, I think is only a reflection of how much, how much of the work that you've done. Like are you able to surrender and let go and let it be? Or are you gonna be a perfectionist and control everything and get a fraction of the succe success that's out there for you, because you can't let go of your ego, right?

It's just so interesting. I think one of the biggest things I see, especially since I'm, you know, I'm a coach and I have a program and it costs $2,500 and you get three months with me. Yeah. And like you said, like all you get all of me. So it's totally worth it. But , people get stuck on the taking action part.

They'll, they'll sit around and think , oh, I wish, oh, maybe. Yeah, maybe now's the time. Ah, it sounds really good. Oh, it sounds like people are doing great. You know, and, and it's like [00:57:00] circling. Yeah. Circling. And it's hard to take action. And then what I see is when people take the action, it's the best day of their life.

Yes. It's like, this is the day I committed to changing my life. So good. Yes. And as soon as you set the intention and you take the leap, the world catches up with you. But if you think about it from like a spiritual, come like Zahara evil perspective. The easiest place for the e sir, hard to trip you up or the evil inclination to trip you up is to just tell you you can't afford a course.

Right? Right. Once you have the knowledge and you've invested in yourself, it's a lot harder for the evil inclination to trip you up and that's its job. So it's just gonna tell you what, you can't afford it, you don't have the money, don't do it like, and then you overcome that. It feels so good. So good.

First of all, because a lot of people are like. Do you have a payment plan? I'm like, yes. And it's $50 a week, you know, and they're like, oh, it's like a free loan. Yeah, I'll take it. Right, right. [00:58:00] And it creates this , oh, and now I don't have an excuse.

You know, suddenly you're like so what do I do now? And the answer is, if you don't want it, there's no shame in saying, I don't want it. you don't have to have an excuse. Yeah. It's totally fine. It's not for me. I don't like it. I met you and I'm not sure, but , very rarely does anybody walk out thinking like it's not for me.

Usually I'm the one who has to tell them. It's like, okay, I want you to do this before you come back. Right. Because I think when you invest in yourself and you put energy into something, like that's another thing about how you were saying, we think we're in control so much more than we are.

If you were, they could buy your course, they could buy , a different course. Like if they're meant to get certain benefits, like they just need to put out a certain amount of energy. I think it will. I think it will come back to them. What's really fascinating is that as soon as they pay, yeah they are already, [00:59:00] I would say like 60, 70% there.

They feel this, people tell me interesting that before we meet for the first time, they're already feeling things are getting better. That is incredible. That is golden. That's unbelievable. It is. And it, they believe. Yeah, it's also, all seven. Yeah. The discovery call is so good. Like the, you know, it's a free discovery call.

So I want you to know what we're going to be focusing on before we go in. I'm not gonna be like, okay, just jump in. It's fine. Even though if you jump in, totally cool, I'll take it. But there's this , oh, I get it. That's what we're going to be doing. Okay. Right. You all you have to do is program your brain to tell it.

These are the goals, right? And your brain's already figuring out how to get it happening. So it's like, I want my husband to be on board. I want there to be balanced in my life. I wanna figure out how to practically work less and, make more [01:00:00] money or how to streamline so that things are smoother.

And I'm not working on the silliest, little details for hours. So let's do it. Suddenly things don't feel as heavy or as gigantic when you're in. As soon as you cross the line, you're now officially in it and now it doesn't feel as big or scary. Yeah. I mean, I find from like the other side, when I decide to invest in something or like buy a book on something that is solving a problem that I have, all of a sudden I go into the mindset like, maybe this is what your client's experience is what I experience of like there is a solution and it's about to be solved.

So like I am already like, like you said, like 60%, 70% there. 'cause I'm like, oh, it's possible. Like I don't need to have, these challenges anymore because so many people have been, you know, and I've already invested in the solution. And that in and of itself takes me exactly what you're saying so far.

But Han I feel really bad. My, my iPad's on 3%, so it's gonna die. [01:01:00] Well, how perfect to end a podcast episode about perfection this way. But this is, this is one of the things that makes it so perfect is we're just, we're just showing up and doing the thing and telling you all that there's 3% left on the iPad.

Yeah. Very cool. So last words, any advice, anything you'd like to tell the world? Show up for yourself because no one else will. That's all. I feel like that's the most, just learn how to be there for yourself in every area of your life. That's, if that's one thing I could share with my younger self, anybody like you are the best investment you will ever make.

And just be consistent with yourself, you're worth it and work with Thank you, because she'll teach you how to do that. Yes. It's so, it's so beautiful. I, I really love that. My mother always tells my kids, and she used to tell us this [01:02:00] also, but , you are the only person you will always have at your side.

Yes, yes. You know, and so, like, that is the best investment. You, you gotta make sure that you have you. So, people say, I lost myself. It really is a very frustrating feeling because Yeah, you don't, you, you suddenly don't feel like you have your back. And, and that's very easy to solve. Like you said, there's, you know, yeah.

There's always a solution for everything. If you lost yourself, just, let's, let's get it back. It's okay. Right. It takes time and space. You have to focus on it. It doesn't happen on its own. No, it does not. And also I wanna get back to myself, is another thing that people say.

Don't go backwards. Yeah. Go forward. No, I love that. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. Yeah, exactly. Don't go back to yourself like find yourself again. Yeah. Because you are a bigger version of yourself now, don't go backwards to what you used to be. It's not gonna really serve you.

You're never gonna get there. Also, you're never gonna be able to go back to where you were 'cause it doesn't [01:03:00] exist anymore. Thank you so much, Esther, for being with us. Thank you Lisa, so much. Thanks. This was really fun. This is, I've never done this before. Oh really? I would never believe you. You did such a great job.

Thank you. Perfect. You're perfect at this. Keep going. Do more. Aw, thank you so much. Thank you so much. It was really such a pleasure. It was so nice to talk to you. Thank you. How can people find you and work with you? So Esther Ballin is my handle on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook. Cool. Yeah, we will, if you're planning a wedding in New Jersey or LA I can help you out.

Or if you wanna have a conversation about spirituality in the world, I can do that too, apparently. There you go. Yeah. Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to come back next week for another amazing episode about perfection. And you, and I'll see you next time. Don't forget to be connected for real.

And that's it! Thank you [01:04:00] for listening to the very end. I would love if you can leave a review and subscribe to the podcast. Those are things that tell the algorithm this is a good podcast and make sure to suggest it to others. Wouldn't it be amazing if more people became more connected for real? And now take a moment and think of someone who might benefit from this episode.

Can you share it with them? I am Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman from connectedforreal. com. Thank you so much for listening and don't forget you can be connected for real.