Joel Cochran | Self-Acceptance Is Your Secret Weapon

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:00:01]:

Welcome back to the Weird and strong podcast. I am your host, Jeremy Grinsteiner. And this episode, we have Joel Cochrane on the show, just a simply badass human being who is a lifelong coach, an entrepreneur, and public speaker. We get to dive into his background. What are the lessons that he learned along the way? So, without further delay, let's get weird. All right. Welcoming Joel Cochrane to the podcast. How are you doing?

Joel Cochran [00:00:29]:

What's happening, dude? I'm living my best day ever. Every day, man.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:00:35]:

That's great. Yeah, you were telling me a little bit about it, of just having an awesome Friday. You were talking about it, and I was like, oh, man, I think I need to get out and get a couple of lifts in today, even though I did a little bit earlier this morning. I've got a weird question for you.

Joel Cochran [00:00:51]:

Are you ready? I love weird questions. The weirder the better.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:00:56]:

I love. Would you rather questions because especially when they are a bit weird.

Joel Cochran [00:01:01]:

Yeah.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:01:02]:

Would you rather have legs as long as your fingers or fingers as long as your legs?

Joel Cochran [00:01:11]:

I would go with fingers as long as my legs. Why? The way I feel about it is, okay. I get to stay at my height. Fingers can kind of curl in, right?

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:01:28]:

Yeah.

Joel Cochran [00:01:29]:

So I can make a fist. It's going to be a really big fist, but I can make a fist. And then I'm thinking about, like, what I initially went to was, man, how easy would it be to be able to get fruit from the tree?

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:01:43]:

Yeah.

Joel Cochran [00:01:44]:

I'm like, if my fingers as long as my legs, I'd just, like, reach up and I would be another 3ft longer. I'd be able to pull off the perfect apple from the tree. I'd go with that.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:01:58]:

Could always pick up things off of high shelves, change the tv channel from across the room without a remote.

Joel Cochran [00:02:04]:

That's what I'm thinking. I believe that's much more of a win than all of a sudden. I go from my height now to really short and looking up, I just feel like that would be so much more of a detriment. I wouldn't be able to run either.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:02:20]:

Or you'd run very slowly?

Joel Cochran [00:02:22]:

I'd run very slowly, and I would much rather have the capacity to walk and run.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:02:30]:

It makes me wonder, would you be able to then use those leg length fingers to help pull yourself along, like, extra legs?

Joel Cochran [00:02:38]:

Yeah, that would be so creepy.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:02:40]:

Yeah.

Joel Cochran [00:02:41]:

Running down the road and you're just.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:02:42]:

Like, somebody's having nightmares from that visual. For real, probably.

Joel Cochran [00:02:49]:

Yeah. Yeah, I like that. Some Freddy cougar kind of.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:02:58]:

You know, looking, know we've gotten connected through the enlifted crowd and lifted experience, as many of the guests currently have come from. I'm curious of what are the things about you that are unconventional or weird that people may not know about?

Joel Cochran [00:03:17]:

You know, as a. As a coach, I've been a coach my entire life, from the very young age, coaching others, being the captain on my teams and this leadership different position. And I was a recreational coordinator for after school program. So I was in charge of 300 kids and 30 staff and so on and so forth. And one of the things that people are surprised about in terms of one, how long I've been coaching, I've been a coach, like I said, 15 plus years. And to become a master at anything, you need those 10,000 hours and quality 10,000 hours. Yet one of the things that I get on shows a lot and talk about and very open and vulnerable about is my experience with my childhood, with my mom and my dad. And I am a big supporter of healing generational trauma.

Joel Cochran [00:04:39]:

It's so vital, particularly if you want to have children, because if you are not going to heal your trauma from your parents, you will. Listen up, folks. You will already have passed it down to your kids, knowing or unknowingly. And I have been very blessed and lucky to have had the experience I've had with my parents. Alibit being very hard and difficult and a struggle. Yet what has taught me about myself, what has taught me about my coaching, how at any point, the realities of our past can change, our perceptions of our realities can always change. Doesn't mean that the abuse that I had physically and verbally growing up as a child changes, but my perception of it absolutely does. And my perception of my mother and my father absolutely does.

Joel Cochran [00:05:52]:

And when you're able to heal that space, you create a very opening, healthy space for yourself, then your parents, then your significant other, and then your kids. Yet, if we don't have self acceptance, go ahead and keep trying to self develop. You're going to get nowhere fast. Because I spent $50,000 on self development, and it wasn't until I had self acceptance that my life truly changed.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:06:27]:

Yeah, that's very well said. And amazing revelations in that, of what that path, in a very short and abbreviated version of that, is like for myself. It's a different flavor of that. We said the $50,000 to get to the. Oh, it's actually about self acceptance. Notice that I went from 300 pounds, never touched a barbell, into my life, to competing at a national stage at weightlifting because I went from one extreme to the other and got to it and went, I'm still unhappy and I'm fulfilled. And it wasn't until the last couple of years of getting exposed to our common contacts in the lifted community of what I was actually looking for when I first stepped into a gym was that self connection and that self acceptance. And something you said was about reality.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:07:32]:

Your perception of the reality changes ultimately. Isn't that what we only. That's the only thing we actually have is our perception. Reality is our perception.

Joel Cochran [00:07:45]:

That's right. And a lot of people have an external to internal perception of their realities. What is being told to me? What am I seeing? How is the external world affecting me? Instead of how is my internal world affecting this external universe that I'm living in? We too often get caught up in that realm. I need to get this, achieve this, go to this. The entire time, we're trying to move that finish line just a little bit farther, but we never get past the finish line. And if we do get past the finish line, what are finish lines all about? Stopping. So when you finally get to the national stage and you finally get the gold medal, then what exactly? Oh, that's right. You stop.

Joel Cochran [00:08:36]:

You stop. Yet, self acceptance, self love is eternal till the day you die. And so if we can create an internal view of ourselves first, then we aren't as affected of the external.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:08:55]:

Well, and also to your point of that finish line, the stoppage, it's almost like I was just having a conversation with a friend over coffee about this, this morning and have had this conversation coming up in various ways of, we have this draw towards achievement, towards checking the box, crossing that finish line. It's like we're trying to continually hurry up to rush to the finish line. Yeah, it's like, well, what is the finish line for all of us, right? It's like, would I rather being able to take that step back and look at, am I actually trying to rush towards done and truly done? Or am I distracted from loving the actual process and journey? Am I too distracted with the destination? That I can't see how cool it is to be on the way to.

Joel Cochran [00:09:51]:

The destination too often to that point. Like, we want to celebrate, we will wait to celebrate until we get to the destination instead of celebrating the actions that get us to the destination. Because if we're celebrating the actions, the destination starts becoming less and less relevant. Because when I celebrate that I made it to the gym today, when I celebrate that I lifted today, I celebrate that I grabbed that bar today, when I go like, do damn good job, 85 pound three position snatch today, that was big high fives for me. Far from my one rep max, but I celebrate those movements, man. Great movements. Good intention. I loved what you did today, Joel.

Joel Cochran [00:10:43]:

That's amazing. You're healing your back. That's amazing.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:10:48]:

Yeah, that's really cool. And reminds me of a practice from a dear friend and former podcast guest as well, of giving yourself permission to do exactly what you said, of give yourself credit for what you did do instead of beating yourself up for what you didn't do, especially towards the end of the day when you're ready to go to bed, of really opening that up and celebrating all of the ways that you did show up. It is so easy for us to get into that space of you didn't do it. It wasn't perfect. So and so is doing it better. I used to be able to do so much more. All of the stories that come up with that for you, what was that major. So you talked about being able to find this self acceptance on this journey.

Joel Cochran [00:11:35]:

Sure. Yeah.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:11:37]:

Was there a particular moment that clicked through finally for you? And what was that moment like?

Joel Cochran [00:11:47]:

Yeah, the moment for me. I was 36 years old at the time. 36. 35. I was 35 at the time. And I had just gone through a really tough breakup. This is with a girl that I had a house with. We bought this beautiful house, had this engagement ring and it all fell through.

Joel Cochran [00:12:13]:

Engagement ring, the house, all of it in the shortest amount of time as God just literally came down, was like, no, that ain't going to happen. That ain't going to happen. And that ain't going to happen. Whoa. So this really left me shook and I truly thought like, hey, we can still make this work. Well, very short amount of time later, she was already dating somebody else. So can imagine the heartbreak and the sorrow. And I was seeking answers.

Joel Cochran [00:12:45]:

I'm like, this is not what life is about. There was something here with myself that I needed to recognize and I have done again, lots of different coaching in the past, lots of different therapy, talk therapy, breath work, so many different things. But it wasn't until I started recognizing and this first started with my therapist and then moved on to with my coach at that time where we started looking back at my relationship with my mom and her emotions and her extreme emotions due to the fact that she was never shown how to regulate emotions and was in a threatening state through most of her life. Dad left her at four, had then an abusive alcoholic father or stepfather, grew up with three boys who also didn't have a father figure, so of course they were abusive and verbally and physically. And so there was a lot of emotion with my mom that was passed down to my brother and I. One, because we're men, right? Men are threatening. Two, she had her trauma. And so starting to understand those extreme emotions, I got to a point where I was like.

Joel Cochran [00:14:15]:

I was finger point.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:14:17]:

Yeah.

Joel Cochran [00:14:18]:

And I was like, there's something going on here, and I need to change this. And at that time. This is right when I started with enlifted a little over three years ago. Around three years ago, and I'm on an Instagram Live. This is when Mark first started doing lives. Yeah, right. And I'm just sitting there watching, right? Because I found out about Mark through one of my current mentors. And I'm sitting there watching, and Mark calls me out, jump on, man.

Joel Cochran [00:14:49]:

There's 40 other people on this. He calls me out. So I get on, and I'm like, sure, man. I've done therapy. I've done coaching. Let's go.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:14:58]:

Yeah.

Joel Cochran [00:14:58]:

So he starts talking to me. What's going on? I said, man, I have this breakup, and I'm figuring these things out with my mom, and she has such extreme emotions. And I was connecting that with lisa and this and that. He said, hold on. Write that down. Which part? My mom has such extreme emotions. Oh, dude, yes, please. Yeah, absolutely, I will.

Joel Cochran [00:15:28]:

Cool. Tell me how that feels. Angry and pissed like her extreme emotions is what has created me seeking out extreme emotions and other women, and this is what's caused this trauma. And he's like, I get it. I get it. He said, all right, do me a favor. Take out my mom. Put.

Joel Cochran [00:15:48]:

I have. I have such extreme emotions. Brick to the face moment all clicked. At that moment, I'm like, wait a second. I'm the one being an emotional or showing my emotions or being very emotional right now in front of 40 people live. Who's the one with extreme emotions? Oh, shit. Welcome to the show, Joel. It's yours.

Joel Cochran [00:16:17]:

And at that point, I recognized. Oh, wait a second. I own everything. All of it. And it wasn't like before. I was playing victim all the time. There was a lot of self growth. But this was the moment where I'm like, no, not just some of it.

Joel Cochran [00:16:38]:

All of it. All of my ancestors emotions and extreme emotions, from my mom to my grandmother to my great grandmother and the lineage behind that. Wait a second. I got it. I own this. So if I can own it, then I can change it. But before I thought I didn't have the power to change that because it wasn't mine. No, all of it is mine.

Joel Cochran [00:17:05]:

And from that moment, I recognize I know exactly where I need to go. I need to go straight back to my parents. So I sat down and I wrote out a letter to my parents. And I always tell people, like, this is a love letter to my parents. This wasn't pointing the finger and blaming them for anything. This is a love letter. I was inviting them into a whole new relationship that I wanted with them. And it did start off with being able to acknowledge this is where I was hurt as a child.

Joel Cochran [00:17:34]:

And I went through that, and I set up the date with my parents, and I went through the whole process, and I did it just like I do public speaking. I wrote it out. I reread it, I edited it. I read it out loud. I recorded myself reading it out loud. I rewatched myself reading it out loud. I adjusted. I changed it.

Joel Cochran [00:17:56]:

I prepared myself for this. So by the time it came to sitting down with my parents, a lot of people were like, oh, my gosh, you must have been terrified. Why would I be terrified? No, see, I was prepared, and I already had started healing my inner child. And I was able to show him that little Joel that was scared, that didn't have any control when he was younger, he couldn't get away from the extreme emotions. He couldn't just be like, hey, I'm going to go to the apartment. This is a little too crazy. I'm just going to get out of here. At six years old.

Joel Cochran [00:18:31]:

No, he wasn't able to do that. And his mom wasn't able to heal that because she hadn't healed her inner child, because she never had a safe space with her parents. And so, no, no, this is mine. My grandmother's, my great grandmother's, my grandfather's. No, this is mine. And it stops here. Little Joel, hold my hand as we walk through this door, because I got you. You don't need mom, you don't need dad.

Joel Cochran [00:18:58]:

You don't need anybody else. I have you. And I sat down, cool as a cucumber. And the biggest traumas of my entire life, I spilled out in front of my parents. I set boundaries of how we're going to move forward, how I was inviting them into this relationship. If you want to come into this relationship, here are the boundaries that I'm going to stay in. And I would love for you to come into these boundaries with me, but I just want you to know I'm not going outside of them. And it took some time, and it still continues to this day.

Joel Cochran [00:19:28]:

But every time there's that invitation to come outside of my boundaries, I go, no, you just come on inside mine. This is a loving, healing place right here inside my boundaries. And since that time, it's been a complete 180 degrees the opposite way with my parents. Our relationship is better now than it ever has been, and it just continues to get better. And that all starts with being able to go, oh, yeah, I own it all. All of it.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:20:01]:

Yeah. Thank you for sharing. First of all, that's such a powerful, moving story for everybody because I know we all carry that with us as well, to different degrees. The difference is just in situation and degree. And what you said about the relationship continuing to evolve again, it was to play back to our previous little bit of conversation, was we think of it as, okay, I read the letter and it's done and it's perfect and it's good. And we're going to go on forever being happy. La da da. And it's continuing to reinforce for ourselves and remind ourselves that these are always processes how much in our lives really is a checkbox that we never come back to.

Joel Cochran [00:20:52]:

Yeah.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:20:53]:

Like, you change the oil on the car, you're still going to change the oil in the car again in the future. You washed one dish, you're going to wash it again and again and again.

Joel Cochran [00:21:04]:

I love that. Yeah. I have a saying, right? Trust the reps. Trust the reps. You are what you repeat. That's it. And when we can take that hers or that we're supposed to be some certain way or have some certain skill, I go, no. I have rolled with some really high performers, some really big names, and what I've recognized with all of them is their resilience to trust the reps and just go, yes, I'm going to do it again.

Joel Cochran [00:21:37]:

I'm going to do it again. I'll refine a little bit more. I'm going to do it again. I'm going to do it again. We are so quick to give up on trusting the reps. I compare it to finances, right? If you're going to put your money in the stock market, you want to play the 30 year game. When I buy a building, a commercial building or a multifamily building, it's a long game. I'm not looking to flip it.

Joel Cochran [00:22:07]:

No, I want to have this for 30 years because the market will shift and I'll buy it for a million. And in 25 years, I will sell it for 05:00 a.m.. I willing to be patient? Am I willing to trust the reps? This is where the resilience comes in.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:22:25]:

Trusting the reps said a different way is trusting ourself. Truth comes back right to where we started with, of self acceptance. If we can't accept ourselves, how difficult is it to trust the reps and trust yourself?

Joel Cochran [00:22:40]:

That's right.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:22:41]:

Yeah. I say so many of these things on these podcasts of having realizations like this. Oh, it comes through. I'm actually in the moment seeing of where in my life that's showing up as a new mirror, new opportunity for me to take a look deeper into what's going on, which is always so cool in these interactions and in these conversations. And I know that if I'm having that, likely the person on the other side is also having it. So I'm always so appreciative of everybody who comes onto these podcasts to have these conversations, especially around, for sure, even though it seems like we talk about the same thing, at least from my perspective, we're talking in this self development. We're talking about these stories and ways that people made the changes.

Joel Cochran [00:23:28]:

Sure.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:23:29]:

From you taking a shift to.

Joel Cochran [00:23:33]:

You.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:23:34]:

Talked about being a lifelong coach. Where did that really start for you, and where has that taken you? As far as you mentioned, after school programs, what has been that path like for you, as far as the details and what you've learned along the way?

Joel Cochran [00:23:53]:

Yeah, that's such a good question. Talk about trusting the reps. My first job was 18 years old. I played sports. My parents were like, hey, as long as you're playing sports, we got you. And even in those sports, again, I was a team captain, so on and so forth, and getting into leading within the after school program, coaching kids, whether that's coaching them how to do a particular game that we're playing or to coach them through how to color in inside the lines. It started there, and I went from there, which I'm so glad I did this, to being a valet attendant and customer service. It's very important, you guys, if you are a coach or you have a small business, to understand people, you need to understand people, what they want, what they value.

Joel Cochran [00:24:52]:

And so what ballet did for me, it helped me understand what people valued. And some people valued that you got the car fast, and some people valued that you opened the door for them. And some people valued that you smiled at them. And some people valued that you just gave them their keys. But it gave me the ability to go, oh, okay, value is what matters, not money. Money doesn't matter yet. We get so caught up on it. It's, what do I value? And then am I willing to invest in that? So I want to look at the value instead of the investment.

Joel Cochran [00:25:32]:

And so from there, I went from valet into running an events company for CrossFit. CrossFit competitions. I say we're not particularly for CrossFit. Bought a 60 foot rig, mobile rig, competition plates, competition bars, everything. And we did mobile competitions all over the northern Nevada, northern California. Put on one of the largest payouts in the country at the time at $35,000. Next to the Granite games at that time was the only other higher payout. Wadapalooza wasn't even a thing at that time.

Joel Cochran [00:26:12]:

And then from there, I moved into running an affiliate across for an affiliate. So I got lucky to be invited to be the general manager of an affiliate here called Double edged CrossFit. And they had a millionaire who was their backer, who. This was a passion project. Money wasn't an issue.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:26:36]:

Yeah.

Joel Cochran [00:26:37]:

So there was nothing too large when it came to this. So we had the most beautiful facility. We placed $120,000 rogue order. We had an entire semi truck alone just to us on rogue orders. Right. And did that from 2014 to 2020. And that taught me an incredible amount. I did over 4501 on one introductions or clarity calls or onboardings, whichever you want to call them.

Joel Cochran [00:27:13]:

That is 4500 hours of getting to know people. Stack that upon doing events, competitions, valet, and working with kids, parents and employees. My hours of getting to know people started getting into that master realm. 2020, the pandemic hit, and it was the pivotal point for me to go, got it. I know what I'm doing from here and pivoted from there. Started my own business doing virtual coaching, and I have continued to flourish in that of doing executive coaching, public speaking, nutrition coaching, fitness coaching, life coaching. There really isn't a realm that I haven't gotten the reps in. And that's why I say, hey, I'm a lifelong coach.

Joel Cochran [00:28:05]:

I'm a coach. That's what I am. And I'm damn proud to say it.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:28:09]:

That's super cool. Was there a big moment of transformation in that decision to go from being so tightly wound into the affiliate, of helping achieve that vision to then going to your own vision?

Joel Cochran [00:28:27]:

Yeah, every time I've gone into a business, I've taken it on as my own vision. Right. So I knew that the affiliate wasn't going to be my forever, because when it came down to negotiations to become an owner, they fell through. And I knew, like, cool, I'm done here. I always have an exit strategy. Out of all of my businesses that I've ever ran, from real estate to the events companies to my personal coaching to public speaking, there's always a way out. And it's not because I'm searching for the way out. It's because I'm preparing for myself, for what's next.

Joel Cochran [00:29:07]:

I truly believe I go, cool. There's something bigger from here. And every single time there's been something bigger and bigger and it's a bigger stage and it's bigger payouts and it's bigger exposure. It just continues to get bigger and bigger. And so when it came to letting go of double edge, there was zero hesitation. It was cool and goodbye. And I've never looked back. And every time I've left a business or left a partnership, it's been as simple as.

Joel Cochran [00:29:45]:

Because I know there's something bigger.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:29:48]:

Yeah. In talking to various people in both the coaching industry and also clients and people who are prospective clients of getting stuck into a sense of scarcity around transitions like that?

Joel Cochran [00:30:04]:

Sure.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:30:06]:

Do you have any advice for people who may be looking at that and wanting to make a transition, but they are scared to take that step because they believe that what's open for them is going to be smaller than where they want to be?

Joel Cochran [00:30:22]:

Yeah. First is being able to recognize what are the fears. Write down your fears. Cool. Just take three minutes. Start a clock at the very top. What's my fear of stepping into coaching, stepping into my own business. Write all the fears down.

Joel Cochran [00:30:45]:

We got to get them out. Right. Then looking back at that, this is where we want to start reflecting. Where in my life do I feel 1000% confident? Take it out. If maybe it's not business, maybe it's somewhere else, maybe it's in your relationship, maybe it's with your family, maybe it's in sports, maybe it's in knitting. I don't know. But where do you feel like I'm a gangster here. Why are you a gangster there? Write down all the things that you're really freaking good at.

Joel Cochran [00:31:19]:

Why you're so good at that. Oh, it's because I've knitted at 200 sweaters, right? Oh, it's because I can knit at a certain time or a certain space, whatever it is. At what point did you accept yourself being that good at that thing? Where are you not accepting yourself in the business that you want to go run? Where is the ability? Because if you don't accept yourself, if you don't value yourself. Because I do this all the time with my business development. What they struggle with the most. I work with affiliates all across the world. What they struggle with the most, sales. How come, oh, if you don't value yourself, you're going to get stuck on the number.

Joel Cochran [00:32:14]:

When I value myself, my packages are anywhere from $2500 to $8,000 and I don't blink an eye because I am so damn confident I'm going to get you to where you need to be that I can easily show you. Is this what you want? Okay. This is what I do, and I'm the best at it. And if you don't believe that you're the best at it for you, in your world, in your realm, with no comparisons to anyone else, I could care less. What other executive coaches are out there? Life coaches out there, nutrition coach. I could care less. Because when you step into my world, I'm your best answer and I'm your best option because you're talking to me right now and there's plenty of people who haven't talked to me. That's because they found somebody else.

Joel Cochran [00:33:02]:

Great. I hope that coach has the same confidence as I do because when you have that confidence and you value yourself, it is not a question if I'm going to make it, it's just how am I going to make it? Which area do I want to absolutely annihilate in? Okay, this area. Great. Go be the best. Go become a master.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:33:25]:

Absolutely. I love that in the sales aspect of it. I've delved deep into that world as training because working in a small fitness facility, a former CrossFit affiliate, all of those things, of recognizing our own stories. There was a time period where I worked at Best Buy and I was the number one seller, and I didn't even bat an eye at it because I didn't feel like I was selling. I was presenting solutions for people. They came to me asking for a thing and I said, this is actually better than this. So this. Okay, thank you.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:34:02]:

Yeah, that was absolutely. That was amazing. And I was like, just being helpful. And then when it came to the process of selling something like myself, then an initial story comes up in that of the resistance or the looking at your own price and going, if you're in a space where you believe that you can't afford yourself, that that creates another internal conflict of lack of self belief and lack of all of these crushing scarcities that we put ourselves into, which is.

Joel Cochran [00:34:40]:

That's right.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:34:42]:

I'm always fascinated just to hear people talk about when they're afraid of sales, it's like, well, do you like telling stories? Do you like listening to people? Do you like coaching people? It's another relationship. Was that something that was very natural to you or was that something that you had to learn?

Joel Cochran [00:35:03]:

I had to get the reps in, baby. As a public speaker, as somebody who has always been in front of people, people will look at me and be like, yeah, of course, it's super easy for you. I'm like, how do you think I got on that stage? Yeah, please tell me that. Somebody just looked at me and they said, you just look like a public speaker. I choose you. I'm going to pay you thousands of dollars to get on a stage that just seems opened up a phone book.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:35:34]:

And just hit the first name. Because that's what many times, especially when we start, that's what we think happens. Yeah, I'm just going to get the call one day. Somebody will finally notice me.

Joel Cochran [00:35:47]:

Yeah, no, it takes the reps, you guys. And so where I went from an okay salesman to a good salesman was the 4500 hours I put in. Okay. Where I went from a good salesman to a great salesman was when it became my only job. When all I did was sales for best hour where I went and my own business where I went. Now I'm starting to refine the craft. Now it's my job. Now I'm like, wait a second, not that.

Joel Cochran [00:36:23]:

Then this. Wait, no, I'm going to study sales. I'm going to start getting into this right where I did now another 2000 hours of honing that craft in. And then where I went from great to world class is when I accepted myself. When I got to that point of like, no, I'm the doctor here. I have the answer. I am the answer. And so you can go and you don't have to go.

Joel Cochran [00:36:56]:

I'm not attached to the outcome, just like you weren't attached to the outcome of them buying this product compared to that product. You were detached from the outcome. You could buy it, you don't have to buy it. And by doing that, you created a confidence in speaking to the person and being without a doubt that's the right answer. And they went, that's all I wanted to know. That sucks because they have self doubt. They've already tried to make the change and they couldn't do it. So when somebody who has the ability, who has the reps says, this is the answer, and you can say it right to their eyes and you can go if you don't want it.

Joel Cochran [00:37:36]:

Don't take it. I'm not attached. That's when I became world class salesman.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:37:44]:

Powerful baller moves. Yeah, I dig it a lot. Change gears. Just slight. We talk a lot about personal development.

Joel Cochran [00:37:55]:

We talk. Yeah, let's change some big gears, dude. Let's go.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:37:58]:

Yeah. Getting into something we haven't really talked a lot about on this podcast because we've been talking to such cool people who have amazing stories. You mentioned you were doing some olympic lifts and you've been involved with CrossFit, getting into strength and physicality, being in sports. What was that path like for you? What was the initial interest that started to lead you into getting into eventually crossfit and continuing that path for.

Joel Cochran [00:38:31]:

Yeah, yeah. Football is the main driver. Okay. And this is why I'm such a believer in working out with your kids from the very beginning. You should invest into an at home gym. Take out your cars out of your garage. I do not care what you need to do.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:38:53]:

Build a shed in the back.

Joel Cochran [00:38:55]:

Build a shed, figure it out.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:38:57]:

Clean out the extra bedroom that gathers all the extra junk.

Joel Cochran [00:39:00]:

Exactly. Because I didn't see my dad work out, I knew he did and that definitely helped. But it's when I got into football and strength was a priority. It was a necessity for me to be better is what helped me to start going like, cool. I got weights in the morning and I got weights in the evening. I'm going to go back to the gym and get stronger because I want the edge. And so that really helped me get into that at starting at a young age. 8th grade is when I started lifting weights.

Joel Cochran [00:39:35]:

And being in sports helped me because I had a goal. I had that finish line. I want to be the starting running back or whatever the case is. And then after it moving into college, it was now ingrained in me. I'd done so long that I was like, I want to continue to stay strong and I continued to play intermiller sports, ski, snowboard, do active things, do five k's, ten k's, and all that other kind of jazz. And so I just always stayed such enthralled in fitness itself. And I feel so lucky for that because this is the only body we get and the way we treat it now is essential to how we're going to live our end years. I'm thinking about myself at 80 years old right now, in my thirty s, I am thinking about, man, how active am I going to be? How strong am I going to feel? And I'm going to be strong and people are going to look and be like, no way, you're 80 years old.

Joel Cochran [00:40:41]:

And when I'm 90, people are going to be like, no way, you're 90. And when I'm 100, they're going to be like, no way, you're 100. That is my lifelong goal. And when that's the goal, it's not just, like, cool. Today I'm going to do my three position snatch, and I have to hit 135. No, I'm thinking, hey, you're going to do three position snatch. One, because you love it. You love doing Olympic lifts, so that fills your cup.

Joel Cochran [00:41:08]:

Two, you're going to do it 85 pounds because you're doing it for your 80 year old self right now. And you're being kind to your 80 year old self right now while continuing to work, strength training, while continuing to explore different dimensions of fitness, of health. That is a big driver for me, is getting to the older ages. And how long can I do a three position snatch for? We'll find out.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:41:38]:

As long as you want to.

Joel Cochran [00:41:40]:

Right.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:41:40]:

Yeah. As you were talking about that, of this path and the continuation thinking in decades, as I've commonly heard it said, of thinking beyond this training cycle, beyond this thing, I'm working this arbitrary goal that I've set myself that, yes, I want to do. And am I sacrificing the longevity for the performance for this goal?

Joel Cochran [00:42:08]:

Yes.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:42:09]:

For some arbitrary thing that I've decided for myself is the longer term, the bigger vision that I want to see. And one thing that I've been considering and thinking about, of even looking back, I just recently started coaching youth weightlifters at a local high school.

Joel Cochran [00:42:27]:

Oh, dope.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:42:28]:

And getting to take all the things that I've learned, coming to the sport later in life and through all the tools that I've learned. And looking at this, I grew up as a nerdy kid who wasn't athletic. And I looked from the outside in at what was going on in the sports and very confused a lot of the time. And then looking at it still as an adult, I see some confusion for myself there, too. We instill this sense of, you have to win. We're training for the game. We're creating that sense of immediate achievement. At the cost of what? Because we're young and it's okay and we'll be fine.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:43:11]:

And so I'm talking to kids who have blown out acls, and that didn't need to necessarily happen because they're rushing to the end of I need to get the football trophy. Taking a look at these kids.

Joel Cochran [00:43:27]:

How.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:43:28]:

Different would have your life or collectively people's lives been if we started from a perspective like that or started to instill that perspective of actually looking beyond what is it to be to start senior year on the football squad.

Joel Cochran [00:43:48]:

I love that dude. Essentially, I worked with the youth, too. I was a strength and conditioning coach for one of the high schools here and still have a passion to coach football. Right. I coached football, varsity football and working with a team that was not good. It really came down to belief I would look like a three headed monster. If I would have came in and said, we're going to be state champs next year, I would look like a three headed monster. And what I would have done is I would have created false hope.

Joel Cochran [00:44:36]:

Same thing we were talking about earlier. I instilled in those athletes, we're going to win in our actions. We're going to win in the way we tie our shoes. We're going to win on the way that we come out onto the field. We're going to win the way we go through those sprints. We're going to win in the way our detail is to every movement on this field. And there was buy in on that and we did well. We didn't get a state championship, but those kids bought in because it wasn't about the end.

Joel Cochran [00:45:12]:

It was about being able to win now, win right now, win this second, win this minute, win this hour, win this day, win this week. Let's win here right now. Let's see what happens when we're just focusing on that action right there. It will compound see what happens.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:45:34]:

What can you imagine the effect on that lesson and being able to learn that if they take it with them, what can you imagine that looks like for them at age 30, age 40, versus somebody who doesn't learn that lesson?

Joel Cochran [00:45:50]:

Oh, yeah, I know it. One of the athletes, it's his senior year, is one of my best friends. He's 28 years old. Yeah, right. And I've been able to watch him from how I coached him. And here's the thing, this is to all leaders out there when you come in. When I first came in to do weights, not a single one of those kids liked me. Not a single one of those kids liked me because I grabbed the wheel of that ship and I turned it 180 degrees and they hated me.

Joel Cochran [00:46:27]:

But what they learned to respect was my consistency. That I came in every single day with the same attitude, with the same respect. I knew to win every second, every minute, every hour, every day. I knew. And by the end of the year, those kids loved me. They loved me because they respected me, because they knew that I was going to show up the same way every single freaking time. And so as they see him now at 28 years old with his own son going through hardships like a divorce, and how he's responding to it and his openness, I'm like, this is, if I only had somebody who was in my corner, who knows where I'd be? And I also say this, life is your greatest teacher. You guys go live it.

Joel Cochran [00:47:28]:

No guru, no coach, no one out there is going to teach you as well as life teaches you because I can tell you all the things to do in life, but you need to feel what life gives you for you to learn it.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:47:45]:

Absolutely. And connect it to something physical, like an olympic lift. I can sit and I can describe it to you over and over and over and over again until you feel what a good snatch feels like, what that execution of that movement is like. You go, oh, that's it. Because all the words you can use to describe it don't do it justice of what the experience is like. I see it in the looks of terror on these young kids faces, do these million things all at once within a split second. And another thing that you said in that story, which is, again, I'm loving everything that we're talking about today. This is a fun jam session.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:48:34]:

You talked about when you showed up consistently winning every day that those kids loved you. It's one of these things. Even looking at in public speaking, it's easy to have fun. And it's an audience member when the person on stage is having fun.

Joel Cochran [00:48:50]:

That's right.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:48:51]:

In these relationships, especially as coaches, especially towards younger adults, is it's easy to love somebody when they already have started to love themselves. Really hard to buy in and start to like somebody who doesn't like themselves because we've all been around those people. We've likely been those people at some point in our life, and it's tough on the external people around us as well.

Joel Cochran [00:49:16]:

Oh, big time. Well, I mean, guys, if you're not accepting yourself, then you're not going to be secure with yourself. When you're not secure with yourself, you're going to show up, particularly us as men. We're going to show up with bravado, right? We're going to puff our chest. We're going to hear what we hear on social media. Be a lion, be a savage. Right. Be all these things.

Joel Cochran [00:49:42]:

Right. But if you don't know how to control being a savage, you're reckless you're dangerous. It's like giving a gun to somebody who doesn't know how to operate it. Is the gun powerful? Yes, but it's also extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. And so when men are walking around telling themselves they're savages, but they're unable to express to me how they're feeling and be able to get vulnerable, then you're dangerous to this society. You are dangerous to these kids. You are dangerous to your wife, to your kids, because you don't know how to control it. And until we can get to that point of being able to go, I accept myself and I can be a savage, right? And I can show up, but I can turn it on and I can turn it off because I would rather be a samurai in a garden than a gardener out in war, right?

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:50:41]:

Yeah.

Joel Cochran [00:50:42]:

And that's what we want. We want to be a samurai just plucking leaves. Nobody even knows that. I could rip your freaking throat out.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:50:50]:

Yeah, you took the analogy right out of my mouth on that one. We were thinking the same thing. It's like that warrior energy that's part of the masculine of being able to use that gear and choosing not to unless it's necessary, that's a truly dangerous person. Not in a reckless way.

Joel Cochran [00:51:18]:

That's right. I carry a gun with me every single day, and I refuse to use that thing unless I absolutely have to. I will do everything in my power. I will run away. I will cower. I will give you my money in a dangerous situation. No. Here's my money, here's my keys.

Joel Cochran [00:51:42]:

No. Here. No. But if the time came, I practice with my gun, my everyday carry, every single month. I practice my draws. I know my trigger pressure. I practice for that moment in hopes that it never comes. And this is how we should practice as well as men.

Joel Cochran [00:52:06]:

I should practice and practice and practice, and practice. Vulnerability, openness, all of these things in hopes that I never have to use it. But when I do, when the time does come, I will be a force. People will listen because they're so used to me just sitting there, right? And being able to be patient and questioning that. When I finally do make a statement, everybody stops. When you're roaring like a lion and making statements all the time. This is how it's going to be. This is the way it should be.

Joel Cochran [00:52:42]:

The world should be this way. Draw the fucking line. Always going to listen to you. They're going to turn you off. They're going to wonder about the guy sitting in the corner being quiet, shaking his head. That's what they're going to be like. What's that guy doing over there? Well, what do you think?

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:53:02]:

Yeah. Wise words. It rings true so much. I love it.

Joel Cochran [00:53:11]:

Yeah. It's tough.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:53:17]:

We have this innate urge to want to explain, to stay in the cerebral, be recognized. And many of the things that we talk about, seeing it for myself and seeing it in others as over explaining or showing up insecure in that way is a way of lack of self acceptance like we've been talking about. It all comes back to that connection to self.

Joel Cochran [00:53:44]:

That's right.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:53:45]:

The more that we can find that, the better everything gets.

Joel Cochran [00:53:49]:

Yeah. That self acceptance, you guys, the greatest gift that you can give yourself is being able to accept. There was one of my breath work coaches who explained it to me, and he showed me, he said, put your hands together. Right. I put my hands together and he goes, cool. Take your right hand and move it away from your left hand. Keep your left hand still, but move it away. And so I slid my hand away, and he said, this is the part that we tend to accept.

Joel Cochran [00:54:19]:

These are all the celebrations that we have. Right. All the things that I'm trying to achieve. The 225 pound snatch, the awesome relationship, the thriving business, the degree. We'll celebrate. All those things. Right. Bring your hand back now take the left hand and move it away.

Joel Cochran [00:54:41]:

And move the left hand away. And keep the right hand where it's at. So these are the things we don't want to accept. Where we faltered, where we fell, where we didn't hit the snatch, where we did something we felt embarrassed or shameful of. This is the part we don't want to accept. And when we're battling ourselves, we'll fluctuate. We'll seek to adhere to the right side and go, I need to get another degree to make myself feel better because I'm actually not accepting the shame over here. When I didn't do well in school, that I didn't get that job.

Joel Cochran [00:55:16]:

And what he says that we can tend to flex and the self acceptance is doing this. Both hands pull away. Both hands pull away. And we go. Great. With open hands, I receive myself with open hands, I can give myself a hug. With open hands, I can help someone else. But when my hands are together, I have no place to be able to extend a helping hand.

Joel Cochran [00:55:47]:

I'm grasping on to something instead of accepting. An acceptance is open, acceptance is vulnerable, and acceptance is strength. Fantastic.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:56:01]:

Yeah. I'm going to leave it at that. I'm not going to let it sit for what it is.

Joel Cochran [00:56:06]:

Yeah.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [00:56:07]:

For sure, as we start to come up on our time together. That was a mic drop moment if there ever was one. But do you have any final thoughts you'd like to share with the viewers or the listeners?

Joel Cochran [00:56:22]:

What I would say, this recently has come up and has been so powerful and I've reminded so many people of this. I want to extrapolate. This story is I've been in commercial real estate, and my brother has a property out in Ohio, and it's a multifamily, multiple doors. It's a section eight. If you guys don't know what section eight is, right? It's low income. So to be a section eight property, you have to be approved by the section eight committee. And the thing with that is, yeah, you get tax breaks and so on and so forth, but if this section eight committee deems your property to be unlivable, they can kick out all of your tenants, basically say, like, no, you guys all got to go, this is unlivable. And it could be because they don't like the way the tree branches are hanging.

Joel Cochran [00:57:16]:

And this is what ended up happening. He got the call and they said, we're kicking everybody out. And he went, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. And he already made the commitment. Like, I'm not coming at this with this big, roaring, masculine energy of, like, the f, you will. I'm getting my lawyers. I'm this and that.

Joel Cochran [00:57:41]:

He said, no, this is a perfect opportunity to go from zero to hero. I want to go from the bottom. If I'm at the bottom of your list, thank you for letting me know. But I want you to know I'm going to come to the top. And whatever I need to do to do that, I will. So he went, great. I'm going to get on a plane and I'm going to come all the way over there and without a guarantee that he can meet with a section eight CEO and so on and so forth. And so he's putting together all his stuff.

Joel Cochran [00:58:12]:

He's putting together his numbers, and he's getting really nervous and he's getting really worked up because he really wants to show, like, I'm a good owner, and he is. He really does care. And so there's some insecurities that are coming up. There's some worries if they all get kicked out, then now I have to pay my mortgage, which is really dang expensive, right? And he's talking about this and he's worried he's about to get on a plane and he's doing a red eye there to ohio. And then he's supposed to meet people in the morning, and he has some different numbers. He's calling, and he's going to go to the property, and he's going to do this, and he's like, maybe I should have gifts for the tenants, and so on and so forth. And I said, pause. I said, ben, your presence is enough.

Joel Cochran [00:59:04]:

Your presence is enough. And that stopped him dead in his tracks. You don't need gifts. You don't need numbers. You don't need all these other things. Your presence is enough. And, you guys, so often we get caught in that. I have to have the degree.

Joel Cochran [00:59:26]:

I have to have the thing. I got to have all these pieces. No, you don't. Your presence is enough. Because I can tell you that each time I'm about to step out onto the stage to give a presentation an hour before, I'm just like, ben, I have to get all my points right. And if I don't land this and if I don't make sure that I hit this point just right, always before I step out on that stage and how big the stage is, right before they call my name, it all washes away. Because I remember to myself, my presence is enough. Whether they receive it or they don't receive it doesn't matter.

Joel Cochran [01:00:13]:

Who I am is enough. And everything washes away, and I go out on that stage and I allow my presence to be enough. So whatever you guys are going through, whatever your doubts that you may be having, remember, you are uniquely made. There's billions of people in this world, not a single one like you. Your presence is enough. In work, in relationships, friendships, in your education, as a coach, as a business owner, you are valuable. Be that value.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [01:00:50]:

An even bigger mic drop moment. Thank you so much, Joel. Anything that you would like to promote, anything you would like to let the listeners aware of how they can learn more from you, get in contact with you, what have you got going on in the world?

Joel Cochran [01:01:05]:

Yeah, man. My business is. There's three different businesses. Two that I run, one that I work for. Proclivity is my life coaching and nutrition company. We help people to create healthier bodies and happier lives, and we do that by restructuring your identity around food, fitness, and the way that you see yourself. The other business is called Cochrane concepts. That's my public speaking and my executive coaching.

Joel Cochran [01:01:36]:

So if you are listening now and you're like, man, I love a public speaker. Or, man, I'm an executive. I need help with being able to manage all these pressures of running a business. Feel free to reach out me there and lastly is I work for best hour of their day as a business development coach best hour of their day is an affiliate development company. We are partnered with CrossFit and so if you are an affiliate owner and you are curious about man I am struggling to make a living as an affiliate owner. Head over to besthourothertherday.com. Check us out. We can help and we have helped hundreds and hundreds of affiliates.

Joel Cochran [01:02:20]:

We're working with 250 affiliates around the world right now. We'd love to be able to help you.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [01:02:26]:

Very rad. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for being you. I appreciate it greatly.

Joel Cochran [01:02:32]:

Receive that man thank you very much for having me on the show man. It's pure honor.

Jeremy Gruensteiner [01:02:36]:

Thank you and to you listening thank you for listening to us and sticking with us through this amazing journey of conversation that we've just had. And until next time, as always, stay strong folks. And most importantly, stay weird.