Welcome to this week's episode of the Digitally Done Podcast. I am your host this week, Sam Winch, and with me, I have the wonderful Lizzie McCauley and Nikki cali. Welcome back, ladies. Hello. It's always wonderful that you keep coming back and you haven't run away from me yet. So this is a win. I do like this.

For those of us who haven't listened to the previous episodes, let's do a super quick run around and I'd love you to give a one sentence intro about who you are and what you do, please, Miss Lizzie. Oh, me. Oh, how exciting.  I am Lizzie McCauley. I'm your friendly small business, copywriter, copy coach, communication strategist.

I'm wearing many hats these days. And  making small businesses win is kind of the name of the game. It doesn't really matter what, how we're facing it. We just want to do well, grow and do good. And that's what I help with. And I love the title of communication strategist because it encompasses so much more of what you do.

Like words are a part of it, but it's really like, what message are we communicating and why? And it makes so much more sense to me than just saying,  sorry, copywriters, I'm going to be using better comments, just a copywriter. Like what you offer is so much more than that. So I love it. Thank you. I'm so clearly still getting, getting comfy in my new skin, but it's a, it's a work in progress and it's coming on nice. 

I am the founder of WisDome and I'm an advocate for anyone out there who wants to share their wisdomness in the form of courses, programs, and building communities. And I have to say, with respect to Lizzie, she's that other part of my brain, because I don't do words very well.  She comes in really well in that regard. 

Oh, the words is fun. The words is just what you do for a holiday. When the strategy is really where the progress is made. Isn't it? I like Sam and I like shaking our heads. Yeah, that doesn't work like that. What a holiday? The words is what I do for fun. This, well, actually that's a lie. The strategy I do for fun too, cause I love it.

And I am your host this week, Sam Winch, the course creator, not the lunchtime food. I spend my time helping entrepreneurs and small businesses owners turn their knowledge into something they can sell often in the form of a course, but not always. So this week we are talking all about execution and progress and getting it done.

And before the podcast, we were talking about some of those quotes that you've probably heard, like Progress over perfection, or it's messy in the middle or all of those bits and pieces.  Perfection can be very preventative because it doesn't exist, right? There's, there's no such thing as perfect and what is perfect to you might not be perfect to someone else anyway.

So it's really subjective whether the thing is now perfect or not. So that means it, it really puts a stopper on getting anywhere because you're trying to work out what perfect is and is this perfect? Will never truly be or feel perfect. I don't think so. And you know, that word perfection, it's like this whole mindset thing.

As soon as you hear perfection, there's like this wall that goes up. Absolutely. Like, it's like a stump all of a sudden. It's like, ah, and it's a freak out word for a lot of people. And I don't, yeah, I agree. I think Perfection can be a scary word. And I don't think we need to have to worry about that necessarily, because there is no such thing as perfection.

No, I understand where it comes from though, as well. It's about worthiness and it's about,  this needs to be. If I'm going to charge X amount that it needs to be Y level of good, you know, and, and the problem is, is that we are all our harshest critics by some orders of magnitude. And if we  knew what the expectations, and that goes back to the validation piece, but if we knew what.

Other people were expecting from us first. We're what we're expecting from ourselves. Perhaps we'd be slightly less harsh judges of what perfect is.  Yeah. I think often because we know our own trade so well as well that we forget that our audience isn't where we're at. And so we're trying to make a thing that feels perfect based on everything we know, based on all of our knowledge and all of our experience.

And by the time you get to a point of building something, we're That's a lot. Like you've gathered a lot of stuff over the year. So you're trying to make something that encompasses all of those things that you've collected throughout the time. And it's, it's too many things. They don't all fit, but your audience doesn't need all of those things.

They're not at that point. And Lizzie and Nikki, you're probably the same as well. Like I, I find as a course creator, I. Feel that there's probably an expectation that I will have great courses. So I put a heavier burden on myself before I release something, because I think people are expecting better from me, but I'm using the caveat of what I think a great course is.

And my audience might think that a great course is something different. And I don't know, Lizzie, if you get the same thing when you're, whenever you're writing words, I feel like as a copywriter or as an. A communication strategist or whatever that might be. If you put words out into the world, you expect people to judge them more harshly because you've said you're good at words.

Like, is that a thing? Oh yeah. Even just like, Oh, there's a typo. I have gotten over that over time because I have embraced my inner, whatever the opposite of a perfectionist is. I'm more of a just whatever kind of guy now where it's like, okay, we're all human and just, you know, Not everything is going to be exact and perfect and amazing.

Cause you know, it's just an easier place to work from, but there, there was a,  there was a time when I  completely lost, like it didn't  outwardly freak out, but like cracked a sweat and fully thought my business was going to implode because I changed a Facebook group name that I owned and  it had a typo in the name and I couldn't change it for 30 days.

And it hurt, it hurt so bad. I do feel your freak out there.  And it's like, how can a letter completely unravel you? But it did, because that's where I was at the time. And I kind of like, okay, things happen and I kind of made light of it, but it's still like, Oh, I had it in my diary to come and adjust it in 30 days time, blah, blah, blah. 

But it just, it actually was a really great lesson in. That's not like half the people didn't even half the people in the space or half the people I know who could have seen it didn't notice it at all. So what what's important to us isn't important to everybody.  And that was just a really prime example of, you know, yeah, there's a lot that I put pressure on myself, but what what you see and what other people see is not always the same thing.

And it really leads us back to that progress over perfection, right? Because if you'd stressed out about getting it perfect, you might have deleted the group or you might never have changed the name in the first place. But the truth was like you had a group and it was functioning and half the people in it didn't even notice  because you took the progress and yeah, the progress was messy and uncomfortable, but you took it. 

Sure. Things go wrong. Welcome to the world of small business, right? Yeah. Things go wrong, but you took it. Nikki, I know you do a whole module in effects program on execution and that mindset around getting things done. What sort of things do you end up talking about in there about really sort of getting out there and  getting, getting your thing into the world?

Just getting it out there. I guess, you know, look as a product developer, my background was just get the product out there. It's not going to be perfect first time round and Hey, it's the same thing, what we did with, you know, wisdom when we released it, it wasn't going to be perfect. And it's, it's very hard when you have that mindset where you project. 

Out, you know, if you, if you're a particular type of person, you know, you're very perfection on how you look or whatever it is, the things that you do, you're organized, blah, blah, blah. So it's going to be the same thing with whatever products you're creating, package you're creating. And you're going to  look at that. 

Element of how does it look to people and all the rest of it? That's that other side besides just the actual content itself. But when you bring the pain of trying to bring those two portions into perfection, it's just never going to happen and you're not going to reach that level of perfection. And I think for me, with respect to the effects program, what we go through is,  everyone goes through a self assessment at the start of the program  to talk about where they want to go and what they want to do.

And keeping sight of what that goal is for themselves, but also the package and what that goal is. Because when you just concentrate on what it is that your audience has to get out of this.  Just keep it simple. And just like you say, like small bite sizes, Sam, like just keep it simple in that regard.

It's a matter of, it's like packing a bag for, you know, a holiday. Yeah. Pack your bag. It's massively full. And I tend to do that two weeks before I'm going to go out and then I start pulling away things. So the bag gets lighter and lighter. It's the same thing when you're building out a package and offer, whatever it is.

You might throw everything at it to try and make it perfect, but. It's that overwhelm, and it's not just overwhelming yourself, it's overwhelming them, your learners.  On that note, there's something that's occurring to me as we're speaking, like, I think we're all very keen to fall into a very tempting trap of over Over delivering and under promising, which we all want to do.

Right. But sometimes we, we over, over, over, over deliver. And that is the struggle, you know, like we've given them everything. And then what happens is, as you say, as you sort of described Nikki is that then there's just too much information and there's no,  Clarity that comes from, from overwhelm. So it's, it's an interesting thing to sort of navigate.

What does it mean to under promise and over deliver, but do it in a way that is still palatable?  It's the equilibrium, isn't it? It's like that point of how much is too much where it becomes overwhelming and devalues what it is that you're actually sharing. So yeah, it's finding that. Balances works for you anyway,  that how much is too much line is something that comes off really often when we're building out courses, because you're right, Lizzie, like we want to over deliver, but we've been taught as well.

I think a lot through the online world that you have to give lots of stuff to deliver value, right? You know, we're all told you have to put out your free thing, put out your podcasts, right? Blogs, put out social media posts, like have it this, that, and the other. And we're just taught that you have to give, give, give, give, give, which is fine.

But there comes a point when. You give too much and all you've done is clouded the message and muddied the water. And especially when it comes to then a paid program, people are paying you because they want the answer to the thing that they have a problem with. Not because they want your whole handbag and the kitchen sink and all the other bits you've got as well.

Like. If they wanted to get lost in a rabbit hole of information, they'd have spent all their time on YouTube instead. Right. But they don't, they're fed up of that at this point now. And they just want the damn answer. And that's the same, I think, whether you're selling a program or a membership or a course or an ebook or whatever the digital thing might be.

By the time someone's got to a point to committing to your thing, they just want the thing they've signed up for. But we're in this complete and utter habit and mindset of give, give, give, give, give, that we tack so much onto it that we hide the one thing. That they came for. And it's a big part of the reason we talk about minimum viable products.

Like what is the minimum amount we can put out here so that they get the outcome that they want? Cause once we've reached that point and I think we add over and above that, are we adding that for them or for us or for why, why are we putting more in this? Now, what is the point? And so it really is that, how can we give them the outcome they want?

Definitely. And make them feel loved and make them feel valued, but like, we don't need to do lots of things necessarily to make them feel that way. We just have to deliver the outcome they asked for. You know what a common thing that I find too with Some, you know, people that I meet who are sharing their wisdomness online and all the rest of it.

It's like this mindset of I'm creating a course, I wanna, or, you know, program, whatever it is. And I wanna put as much as I can in there so they can see what I have to deliver and what I can offer further down the track too. And it's like,  dude, you don't have to stress about trying to give them everything or trying to prove yourself because that little bite size, that little, hi, how you going?

My name is, I can help you with.  Simple sentence, that is that moment of  connection, trust, and that portrays, I don't know if you're getting my brainwave here, but with respect to having just a simple, minimal viable product, like you said, Sam, it's giving that impression. This is what. This is the start of it.

This is where we're going to go with this. And I, I'm only relating this to, with respect to when we got people into our platform. It had the very basics of what you've got to deliver, but slowly, slowly people could see we were upgrading with little bits and pieces. And it was that connection that I had with.

People and all that sort of stuff. So it's the same thing when you're building out a package. That's how I see it anyway. But how do you like, Sam, I've got to, I want to ask you this question, right? When you build out your  content to deliver like a learning sequence and so forth, do you suggest points of engagement and things like that with respect to executing?

Because there's also that other side of this conversation, which is the execution. Do you suggest things of this is your content, but this is how you should engage?  Based on the content you do in. Yeah. So we normally encourage, I encourage that there should be an engagement or action step for every single piece of content delivered because in the, again, in the online world, right, we just consume, consume, consume, consume, consume.

But if they want an outcome they have to do right. They have to execute as well. And I think that's the moral of this story in general is execution is where. The rubber hits the road and things happen. And if you're not executing and building your thing, it never gets out in the world. But if they're not executing and doing the things you've asked them to do, they never see change.

And that's what we want from them. So I'm of the firm belief that for every single piece of content you deliver, if you record a video, you should be planning out what is the engagement point for that video and what is the action step? Because otherwise, why did I give them the video? What was the point because every, every piece of content I give is an opportunity for them to take action.

And if I get into a pattern of giving them content, but not making them take action, I get them in that really comfortable space. They're like, I just have to watch Sam and my world will magically change, but it doesn't. And I know that it doesn't. So yeah, I, I actively encourage clients to building some form of engagement or some form of action step at every single content point,  which is a lot, but like you need to get them to do something. 

Something super smart. I have have a couple of thoughts on that. Like one is that readiness to engage is such an important piece of the puzzle with this is that we could create. Anything at all, but if our people aren't ready to take the action, then possibly  it's not, it's not going to be a positive outcome.

So doing what you're talking about there, Sam, as far as like making it easy to take the action and making it clear at what point to take, take the action is such an important strategy. Let's say it's a free ebook. There's still  Any number of action points you could take within a free resource. It's not purely course based or not purely video based or not purely anything based.

You know, taking any course of action based on the information received is kind of an essential piece of the puzzle. But, but readiness, not everyone is ready when they receive his stuff. And that's not something we can always. No, and it leads to a longer conversation, which we won't have all of that conversation here, cause it's way too big.

But when I talk to people, they're normally they're focused with online courses is about completion rates and they, they panic about completion rates and they are notoriously low for online courses, but the truth of the matter is it actually doesn't matter how many people finish the course. What matters is how many people take action and we can encourage that as much as we can, but again, still, we don't have complete control over that.

Your audience has to be the one who decides to commit, who has to be ready to make change and Lizzie, you're right. Like that readiness piece is a huge marker. And it's when I talk to people about their course, they're like, Oh, it failed because you know, this person didn't finish all the homework. And I'm like, they weren't ready and I can't force them.

I can't pin them down and make them answer questions in an online form. Like,  that's not our responsibility there. At some point we have to let go of the fact that we've built this cool thing and it is genuinely good. And now it's out of our hands, right? It's up to the audience to use it. But that responsibility doesn't always lay with us.

Some of that responsibility has to lay with your audience. They have to do the thing.  Well, you've laid it all out for them. I have this theory at the moment, another theory, welcome back theory land. But  I think something that would really facilitate the ease  of any of these creations, the digital thing, whatever that looks like is Removing as many decisions for the user as possible.

How many decisions do we make in a day, especially as entrepreneurs and business owners, we spend our entire day decision, decision, decision, decision, and then we stop work and we become. Other types of humans, maybe we're parents, maybe we're not, maybe we're trying to look after our health. Maybe, you know, like we got a mortgage, but  decision, decision, decision, decision, decision, decision constantly.

So to find something that's, that's direct and easy to understand. And there's not like, you know, Or maybe you do this, or maybe you do that. And like, sometimes we want to be amenable and please everybody. I think what we need with these digital things  is that sense of safety that you're held and that this is the clear path.

And that's that.  And you know,  can I just say something just with respect to things that I've learned, especially from Sam and yourself, Lizzie?  In how you process information and apply that information.  One thing that, you know, when we were building out our platform, we wanted to take away those decisions that are mundane.

You don't need to worry about, Oh, how big is this title going to be? And the look of your page. It's like, just get the content in there. And this is how your learners will learn. Like, you know, they upload the lesson and stuff. It's formatted in there  straight away. It's just the only decisions they have to make is.

The video that they're going to record, the script they're going to have and the resource. That's it. Like, it's just as simple as that and keeping that simplicity. And I love what you just said there. It's just like  taking away those questions because they do, they end up becoming the source of procrastination.

And yeah, that, yeah. And I think that's so true for each of the three of us too. I mean, we're right in the messy middle of creating doing days, are digitally done days. For those of you listening in, depending on when you listen to this, there'll be more information coming soon or already here, but we're right in the middle of creating a workathon event where people come and get things done.

But we're, we're right in the messy middle, right? Ladies, like. There's a, there's a bunch of confusion. There's a bunch of like, not really sure where we're taking this yet. There's a bunch of words that are plonked somewhere. Some are right. Some are not quite right yet. Like we still don't have the right things in the right places and that's okay.

But also all of us, I think are feeling a bit uncomfortable in that stage. I know I felt a bit awkward and uncomfortable in that stage because one. You get to a point, I think, where you get really comfortable doing the thing, you know how to do well, I, I build courses, that's fine. I'm comfortable with that.

Putting together an event, not so comfy. So that's a new set of messy in the middle, right? And then it's collaboration, which is awesome, but it brings that extra element of messy in the middle. Cause all of us now are contributing bits and pieces.  I can't a personal insight from both of you. Are you feeling the messy middle?

How how's it going?  Yeah,  I'm just such an executor that it's just, I am a keep it simple person.  And also I am reliant on the fact that  I have a strong belief in what we're all doing. Like we all know our expertise. And for me, it will fall into place. I think I've just had to have that mindset. And, you know, we're all busy people, we all have multiple things going on in our lives.

And I think releasing, like, you know, as you said, releasing those decisions and, and Sam, releasing that sort of perfection, that information sometimes, it's like, you know what, just, this is the basic core of what we're doing. Hand it to the people who are going to sell it and market it. And then we'll just see what we need to finesse.

I'm just one of those people that this is like, just, just shift it across, like shift it over, because I'm not perfect at that. And I'm happy to give it to someone else and see how they, you know, transform. I love that though, that I guess it shows how each of us deal with that messy bit in the middle, quite, quite openly and honestly.

And I get, we've never tried to be perfect here on this podcast. Not once have we ever tried to be perfect and I hope that all of our listeners truly understand that we're right there with you, right? When we create things, we, we too get that bit in the middle where we're trying to put everything together and we're not quite sure where it's going and, and we're just in the getting it done bit, but you won't get anywhere unless you just get stuck in and get it done.

If you let yourself get, get held up in that middle bit, you never finish, right? It is never ready. It's also important to zoom out too, right? Because when you're, when you're in it and it feels, I'm not making any progress and I did this and I did this and did all the things and I'm still nowhere and it's like, all right, zoom out.

How far have you come?  Yeah. Way further than you give yourself credit. So I think a little bit of self compassion along the way is probably just what the doctor ordered too. And can I, can I just point out one thing, right? When we were setting up this podcast and we were saying to each other, all right, what are we going to talk about?

And we knew we had 10 points that we wanted to share.  We wrote like there were probably three to four words for each point and went, all right, let's record, you know, and that's kind of the, the, the, the point of this, I think this episode, it's  just  roll with it. You know, you're the expert in your field, just roll with it and just. 

I think it's, you know, have that confidence in yourself, you know, what you're doing. That's why you've gone into the field that you're going into or doing what you want to do. So just roll with it, have the confidence you're there. And if, you know, you're the sooner you get out there, the sooner you'll get people coming through.

Agreed. Agreed. One, one final thought on that as well is you got to be the mirror, right? So look at the amount of kindness and  thoroughness that you would give to a client or to a friend, family member, and maybe try and reflect that back to yourself a bit. Like I know for myself, I rush and I half do things because I put all of my energy into other people's stuff, whether it's personal or professional.

And my stuff. And all of your stuff deserves the same level of detail and attention and patience and compassion that we share to other people. So I kind of wanted to leave that thought with people too, because it matters.  I love that final thought. So ladies, I'm going to ask you to give our listeners, what is one takeaway action that they need to do off the back of this?

What's your one takeaway piece that you want them to really go? Yep. This is what I'm going to go and I'm going to go and do. I'm watching that just because, you know, obviously there's no video with this podcast, but I'm watching their faces and it's hysterical because they're not ready for this.  I will go first to rescue everyone.

And my one takeaway thing I think people need to do is set some sort of deadline. When there is no deadline on a task, it's very easy to make it last for forever, but at some point it's got to get out into the world. So set some sort of deadline, whether that's personal or whether you tell your audience or whatever that might be set some sort of deadline. 

I can build off the back of that and actually  block time.  Regularly working back from the deadline, actually allocate time in your week. If it's in your diary, you do it. She's not in your diary. You'll wait till the week before and go crap. I still haven't done anything. Oh,  and out of my head, Lizzie.  And you're me actually.

But like what I have learned over time, and I have been doing this a decent chunk of time now, is that give yourself.  The space, the latitude to do it lots of time without rushing, without half doing, without that or doing it. Because the end result will be better for everyone.  Yeah.  And on the back of that one,  you don't have to do it alone.

I think if you can try and  build, you've got connections, you know, people  partner up with someone to be accountable. I think that's one of the big things. You don't have to do it alone. Amazing. I absolutely love that. Now if you have been a regular listener, you will know that we have the opportunity to leave voicemail.

So all of the information is down in the show notes below, but because we want you to do things with this podcast, not just listen to us on our little rants and theories that we go on, but actually take some action and create your own digitally done thing. Thing. We want to hear how you're going with that.

So please, please, please take the opportunity to leave us some form of voicemail or information below and tell us what you're doing with this. Not just listening. We don't want to see listener numbers. We want to see doing, so tell us all about what that thing is that you've done. And we look forward to seeing you in the next episode.

Goodbye. Lovely ladies. Bye bye.