Ep 10 - Beyond the Sale - Nurturing Customer Relationships

 All righty, welcome to the very final episode of Digitally Done, your podcast for getting your digital thing done. Imagine that. All right, I am your host for the day. For today, I am Lizzie Macaulay, a communications and strategy specialist for small business. With me, I have two excellent humans who have been with all of us the whole way through. I'd love to introduce you, reintroduce you to the amazing Sam Winch and the amazing Nikki Cali. Hello ladies. Hello. It's gone so quickly. It has gone so quickly. And just to say, if anybody hasn't noticed, Sam has a spectacularly husky voice, right? She's going to make me want to make her talk more, but she probably going to want to talk less. That's okay though. Hey Nikki, what's going on, man? Oh, nothing much. Just hanging out with my gals that I love. And I'm just so excited that we got to this point. I think, you know, with everything that we've talked about over the past, you know, few weeks. It's exciting to get to this point. It is. And this point today is next steps. So next steps is all about, right? You've sold the damn thing. Now what? Because do you know what? Getting to the point of selling is not the end of the journey, but what midpoint, I would say something like that. So why don't we start? I don't, I don't mind. I'll throw it open to the group. What do we do once we've got somebody's money? What happens next? Do we just abandon them and just go, thanks for your money. See you later. Please don't, please don't do that to your poor little customers. No, it's, and it's a conversation I have with course creators a lot. Cause I think there is so much opportunity and value in that very first, what happens when they press buy, but so many people sort of stop thinking about it because they call, I've got a course, they press the buy button done. But the truth is there's so much opportunity in that, keeping them really loved and feeling supported in that welcome process. Be that welcome emails, be it sort of presence while they're waiting, especially if you're in a pre sale period or a wait period, something for them to get their teeth stuck into. And so they don't just get cold feet with going, I handed you a chunk of money, but now I'm just waiting. What comes now? I'm really looking after those people as part of that next steps process. Like they're cool. They've pressed by, they trusted you enough to give you their money. Now what, like, how can you look after them during that process of pressing by? Cause I think that's, it's a really common experience for people to feel all loved in these sort of pre sale nurturing phase, and then feeling like they've been dropped like some kind of unpleasant thing immediately after they've handed over their cash. Nikki, have you ever seen that happen in your, like, not that you have done, but have you ever received service like that? Or is it something that you've heard about in your community? I think that's the biggest fear. Yeah, I have. I've, I've come across, so I've gone, you know, invested a bit of money in something and then gone, hello, acknowledgement, where do I go now? What do I do? So that's the biggest thing. I think just, just like Sam said, I think we're all in agreeance here. It's just making sure that we're acknowledging that action, that someone has taken that big step to trust us and just deliver on just an interim, like, you know, Even if it is just starting, or if it is something that they just get access to straight away. It says now how to, you know, that user experience, the flow, where they're going to go, let them know that this is what's going to happen now. That's where you're going now. And if you need me, or if you need information, this is where you can go. Like letting people know that. There is that support there at different levels as well. Like you don't physically have to be there for them at that point of sale, but if you've got something there to send them to afterwards, that will show them what they can do and where they're going. That's really beneficial. And just removes that, you know, that after phase of, I've just purchased something, what am I doing? Like that freak out post purchase, you know, thing. So. Yeah. It's just, you know, making sure you're there for them. And I really do appreciate it. It's amazing how far that goes. So I would argue, and I've only, I mean, I've only just developed this properly for myself, which is a great shame for like for everyone who'd counted me beforehand, but the honest, honest to God truth is that I only just developed a very specific onboarding process. Recently, because before that, I was like, yeah, let's welcome in and you have all this warmth. And it's, it's kind of a bit higgledy piggledy. Or it has been in my space because my creative brain didn't think about processes until more recently. So I suppose like. The thing, the point that I'm trying to make is that it is something that you can absolutely systemize and make it feel effortless, but still make it feel personal as well. Sam, I imagine you already do this hands down. No problems. Cause you're much smarter than me. Do you, have you got an onboarding process in your space? Yeah, I do for for service clients. I have over the years developed a system. I'm, I think we're always our own worst critic. Like I was like, Oh my God, it's always been on my to do list, like fix onboarding. And then late last year I had a client was like, the onboarding process was great. And I was like, Oh, okay, thanks. I think I needed to hear that. Cause like it's on my list to fix. I think things can always be better, right? Like you see someone else do something and you're like, Oh, I could do that too. But for me, it was about. Making sure that they get something straight away to say, cool. So glad you're into this. Like, great to have you here to give them some information about timeframes and timelines. And then we do a whole sort of induction process. Take some information about their setup all those sorts of bits as well. But even if you've got some sort of digital product, like an ebook or a podcast or a course, something where they land, then that goes awesome. Welcome. Thank you. Here, click this button and I'll give you a free ebook. Template, right? Because there's so much to value in going, giving them something straight away rather than nothing. And I think that was a really big part of even my service based onboarding was going cool. You're in, it's awesome to see here, click here and do this thing right now. Like there's no waiting. There's no weird space. It's a right now thing. Beautiful. And also on that front, I mean, part of this, this system that I've pulled together for myself, and I'm starting to see it a bit more is even building into your onboarding process. Let's call it like a two month timeframe. If it's, if it's a course or a membership or something and having opportunities for them to provide. Feedback early, you know, initial impressions. What do you need? What do you, what do you like? What do you dislike? What's missing? You know, and always being in that feedback loop of like, how can I make this even better than it already is? The assumption, of course, is that it's already great. But then having that constant. Opportunity to find out how you can make it even better and everything that you said it was going to be and everything you pictured it being in your head. Nikki, do you have yeah, I'm sure you have very strong feedback loop in your space. Well, as I like on the SAS side of things, the software side of things, yeah, we've got our, you know, the feedback button that's just there on every single page levels of, you know, the people, the experts, as well as their members and their learners. So. When we bring people into our system, it is, it is that simple, you know, here's where you can learn more if you need any help. But we also have that automated, you know, tour within the system as well. But I think, yeah, I guess it's just like everyone else. It's just letting them know that. That supports the, I think that's the number one thing that I've come across with every bit of information of that we've received from users and their members, just knowing that supports they, if they've got a question. So that feedback loop is, is in within that support area. It's, you know, let us know, what do you think, but we don't ask for their thoughts straight away. Like, you know, with software, we understand there's that sort of time we've got to give them to get used to it. We don't want to throw questions at them too quickly. That's on the software side. I think time is an interesting thing to mention as well though. So I signed up for something semi recently and I received seven emails in the first 24 hours of signing up and it was a lot. Yeah. Right. And I know we talk about like loving people on onboarding and whatever, but seven was too many. I was too loved. Love it. But what it did was it just made me completely overwhelmed. And then I was just like deleting emails, which are probably valuable, but there was too many of them to see the value. So I think with with anything and welcoming people in like drip fed is better. Like you were saying, Lizzie, like over a period of time, over a period of weeks or months or whatever that might be, but you can't give them everything straight away because it just doesn't work that way. All you're going to do is overwhelm your audience the moment they arrive. I think. I wanted to touch on, on two things and I hope that I remember both of them. Cause my brain can barely hold two things at once. But the first thing I wanted to talk about was kind of on this theme is about follow up, right? Like the fortunes in the follow up, even in the sales process, but even afterwards and making people feel valued and making them feel. So let's say it was an ebook. That's not the end of the transaction necessarily. That's just like, here's the thing. Absorb the thing and then we can go and talk about how was the thing or other and we'll talk about graduation points, which are relevant, regardless of the digital thing you're creating. So follow up is a really great opportunity to keep that connection, build connection even if it's, if it's a reasonably low ticket thing, there's always an opportunity to. Convert that low ticket thing into a different higher ticket thing. The other thing I wanted to sort of run by you guys is we talk, I'm sure people have thought long and hard about their onboarding on some level or the onboarding experience. But I think what gets missed often is a strong off boarding experience too in terms of. Well, when somebody doesn't want to work with you anymore, or the course ends, or whatever, what do you do? And what comes next? Yeah. And not, not even purely like, what can you sell them next, but what do you do? Do you guys have a strong process for that? I, as soon as you know, well, thank God we haven't had a massive churn rate or anything, but you know, the, the couple that actually have sort of jumped off or, you know, had, you know, chats or whatever It's been a simple, either a phone call, an email first, just, you know, I'll, you know, sorry to see you go let us know what we can do to improve ourselves. And if there's any, any, you know, any recommendations or anything like that, that you can suggest where we can move towards to create a better experience, whatever it was, that issue. And then we also invite for, you know, do you want to have a chat? Let's see, you know, if there's anything that maybe we can actually help you with that wasn't There with respect to how you could use our system. So this is all still, again, with respect to the software with our program. It's just always been just that communication, open that communication of question, Hey, what happened? What can help,, it's like You know, well, it's, it's just like having a friend and, you know, you know, they're in trouble, they're feeling, you just want to be there for them or whatever. You just want to listen. If they want to talk, they'll talk. If they don't, it's like, well, I'm here if you need me. You know, that's the thing. It's like, remember, we are here and just reminding them later down the track, you know, Hey, we're here. We know you left us or something, you know, ranged, but you know, maybe situations might change and you might want to come back. I don't know. So we do that sort of follow up afterwards as well. Oh, and it could just be a natural conclusion of a program or something literally it's a, it's a book. And so, yeah, the off boarding for downloading a particular product would be quite different than ending a program, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a negative thing. And even if it is that it's, it's stopped before it was due to stop for some reason, it doesn't have to be, there's a way you can still manage to keep that rapport. Right. Yeah. And I actually do want to mention this too, because we've mentioned it through the other episodes, like collaboration, things like that, we have a tendency that if, you know, we've run a program or a webinar, whatever it is, and they're finished with us, we make suggestions. Well, the next step is it might not be with us, but how about trying these people? Here's a list of people that you might want to as well to help you further your journey. So that's another way we do it too. Nice. Yeah. A couple of things that came up for me while we're talking about that is Yeah. I think people often think that the end of a program has to be a hard sell, but you can offer services and additional support without it being a hard sell as well. Like the, what comes next isn't just for you. Like, yeah, cool. It'd be great if they bought the next thing, but it's for them to like, sometimes we get to the end of a program or a thing and we get that bit of an empty feeling like, Oh, Now what? And so that offer of something else is not just to increase your sales, although it can be, and that's definitely helpful, but offering them the next step helps them too. You don't want them just to get to the end and have this empty feeling and not sure where to go. But if you've got a next level, which gives them more support, or you've got a next step, which takes them from now where they're stuck to where to go next, like offering it just helps them as well. So it's not even necessarily about the hard sub it's going cool. Now that you've finished. Project a or thing a, I think you're likely to be here and if you are here, that's cool. Here's thing B. If you're not ready for it, that's absolutely cool too. But if you are ready for it and that feels like your next progression, here it is, it's available for you. And I think that we went through a bit of an icky period online with that, like upsell, upsell, upsell, on sale, on sale, on sale. Like we were pushed through these sales funnels and I don't even think it has to be like that. It can be more of a genuine, a genuine offer where you go, But we know, I think I know where you're up to now, and that's really awesome that you got there. So here are some of the things you might want to look at next. Oh, can I, if I can add something in there, like on that perspective, cause I kept going on with the whole onboarding, offboarding thing. But with the other side of like our program with the effects program, once we worked on the whole learning thing, we've actually introduced the concept of we've told, we've mentioned to the guys that, you know, do our program. Once you've sold your program and people have finished your program, you might not necessarily have to sell upsell to something else, but why not introduce or include a part of your package and accountability side of things to see, to make sure that implementing what you've taught. Cause obviously whatever it is that you've sold is possible that digitally done thing could be teaching them to do something. And therefore you're there to make sure they do do that thing. And they'll. Be appreciative of that because you're aware of what they were trying to do and that accountability. So that could be just an additional package that you might provide, or it could be an extra service bonus session. If they, you know, and this is what we do is we actually say, if you get this stuff done by this time, You get this for free, you know, or if you don't, you know, this is, you know, whatever, so they're kind of, and it's just another way, I guess, to sort of provide that support as well. Like that sort of continuation. I think there's, there's a number of people in my space who, who have led into developing. Time locked course or program or something as usually quite a hybrid model. They involve some level of coaching support, and then they, it takes kind of a conversation with them, right? Okay. So what happens, what happens next? Oh, they just. They're done like, no, no, no, no. This is an opportunity, maintain that connection. And several of them have led lent into after that developing kind of more of a membership model for graduates so that, you know, there's, there's a level of rapport that's already existing because those people have been through the program together. And so. It becomes more of like a, a cohort bonding thing. So there's definitely a lot of scope for doing more than just saying, thanks for playing. See you later. And I suppose my, my thing always, always, always is to do something that suits you, you know, like just because. One person runs a membership afterwards. Doesn't mean that that's the thing you have to do. Maybe you run, I don't know, flipping reunions. You do retreat reunions twice a year because that's what you want to do. Or, or, or, you know, like you get to choose what you do. Afterwards. So I suppose that's kind of we were easing into the talk about graduation points. Anyway, Sam, you started touching on that. There's plenty of strategies around it. What have you seen that is the most effective in your space? That's a really hard question, because I find it varies depending on the type of program we're building and the audience we're working with and what we want. And I think that's probably the biggest advice for anyone is thinking naturally about where your audience is at and what they want, how they want To be sort of achieve these steps. So do they want a big celebration? Some programs we actually have like almost like an end of term party, like you graduate school or college or whatever you have a graduation ceremony. And some of our bigger programs, we have like a proper gathering where we get together and go, Oh my God, it's the end party time, like whatever else. So the, the type of graduation point you're having probably really does depend on the size of the thing that you're building and, and what that looks like for you, but I think recognizing along the way that there are celebratory steps, which we kind of discussed in the last episode and then showing them what comes next after that. So the pathway is really clear for them. It's really important. As long as people are thinking about this isn't the end of the road. Once I've done this one thing, there's always opportunity for, for the next thing, but don't get overwhelmed with that. Just know that it's possible. Maybe have a vague idea. What do you think, Nikki, is that solid advice or would you. Gotcha. Sam, you're all of your advice is a fricking solid advice, but I want to add to it though. Great. One thing we really do quite often, and I think benefits, I've seen the benefit out of it is we actually ask our guys and say, is there anything you'd like to see happen after this? I help them mold the roadmap in a way sometimes, like we get it just to get a good indication of, you know, where do I place my efforts? If this is the cohort that we've had or the clients who have had or whatever, where do they want to go? What do they want to see? So, you know, I just try to sit and, and Yeah, I'm a lazy entrepreneur. I like to rely, I'm big on feedback because for me, it's like, well, I'm making this for you, so tell me what you want. You know, and like you said, Lizzie, like, you know, you go through that process, you're going through, you know, that program, you're constantly asking for feedback, seeing how they're going and all the rest of it, and you take that and you sort of start going, all right, well, this is probably where they want to go afterwards. And it's just a matter of just asking, what do you want? So we tend to do that a lot afterwards. Beautiful. What an interesting opportunity to talk about what our graduation points have been because we've been talking about these graduation points long before we even said a recorded word. We'd love to talk a bit. I think I'd certainly love to talk a bit about what digitally done days might look like. Anyone want to start us off? I think it was, so we were talking before recording, obviously, I reckon our best chats come before recording and we should just press record when we turn the session on. But anyway so obviously we, we talk about this stuff, right? We talk about walking the talk. So when we talk to you guys who are listening about, Putting in graduation points and knowing what comes next and all those sorts of things. That's because we're doing this too, where we're following your journey. We've created our digitally done thing, which is our podcast. And so we had to think about what comes next for, for you guys. And it gives us the opportunity to think about what additional support you might need to help you get your thing done. Done. And I think ideally there'll be a couple of things in the pipeline. I know we've talked about challenges, but I know that the ideal solution for all of us is to have an opportunity for you to come and meet in person and spend a couple of days smashing out that digitally done thing, building your thing with the support of us and a team of people around you to help you get that thing done. In person, there's such a magic that happens when you're actually in the room. I think, yeah, it's, it's, it's not always easy to get away. So perhaps a day or 2 on in the lead up to that, but we are pulling together and in the room. Magical thing. Are we not young Nicky? I am very much looking forward to it and you'll start seeing pretty soon after this release marketing going out, we'll be doing all of those steps that we've, you know, suggested and advised on. So yeah, no, I'm, I'm looking forward to it. And I think it's a great opportunity for anyone who is in that phase of, I've got something in that awesome asset of mine and I'm going to utilize it. And how will I utilize it? So, you know, you might already know what you want to do. You might already have a hell of a load of assets in digital format and just want to know how do I package this into something? So We'll be there to help you. I think all of us have said probably across the series as well. And Lizzie, I know that you do this a bit, but I know I'm a shocker for it is it's really easy to put all our time and effort into building someone else's thing, but how often do we put a time aside to spend building our own things? Like, I think all of us are great cheerleaders for our clients, our customers and building other people's stuff, but putting aside the time to do our own thing, and we know that, you know, our audience is the same. So having an opportunity to. Block days out, come and see us, put aside the time to get it done. I know I need someone to do that for me sometimes, so I think it's the perfect solution. 100%. If it's not in the diary, it doesn't get done. So we might as well put a good solid chunk of time and you'd be surprised how much you can get through. As well, or how little time it takes when you actually have that option to focus fully. So information on that will be in the show notes and an opportunity to pop your little name down on any kind of wait list for information on all the stuff that we will be working on under the digitally done banner that will be in the show notes. Now I suppose, given that you are listening to this in the future. I just had to get my head around that setting that aside. This has been a spectacular series, Sam, Nikki, anything you'd like to say before we wrap up? I would like to leave them with one last action step, which is if they haven't been implementing along the way, this is the perfect time to go back. Listen to things again. The wonderful thing about a podcast is you can go back to any episode at any time. So go back to where you got started. So if you're stuck and do the thing that you're stuck on, don't just push on forward and pretend that you didn't hear that one. We'll take a moment to go back. Nikki. Totally agree with that one. Just go back, have a read. We have transcripts in there as well. So, you know, if you want to listen to audio, sometimes you want to read and you just want to follow those sort of steps, go through it. Best thing is, is when you do listen through them, make a copy of all the action suggestions of each episode, put them on a sheet of paper and there's your checklist of things to do. You got them right there. Amazing. Maybe I should do that. Pre populated your to do list. Ha ha. Ha ha. Well, I'm going to leave you on some words of wisdom that my brother left with me when I was learning to drive that pops up probably daily. Life is 10 percent skill and 90 percent attitude. Keep that in mind when you're powering through, we won't know everything, but as long as we believe that we can, it'll all come together in the end. Do not forget that we have the fabulous voicemail box. They're ready for you to use and drop your feedback, drop your action points. Tell us what you've been up to, how you're. Finding the process of developing your digital thing. And of course, keep an eye out for all the info on our digitally done days, which is coming up super soon. Thank you so much for being a part of this incredible series. Ladies. Thank you both as well. This has been so much fun. Thank you. Thank you, Lizzie. You're a great host, you know, on all of your episodes. The same with you, Sam. I've loved working with the three of you. I just adore you both very, very much and admire your brain cells. And how they function sometimes, but no, I just really want to appreciate and, and express that, you know, we're not alone and you're not alone. . Good stuff, Nikki. Oh, fabulous. Well, thank you so much for listening, everybody. Hope you are very close to finishing your digital thing and let us know what it is, how it's shaping up, what challenges have you had and how can we support you because much like we support each other, we're also here for you. Let us know what all we want to hear about it. Drop it in the voicemail box. Aside from that, that's us out of here. Thanks so much for listening. We'll see you next time. Bye guys.