Evangelism – Celebrating every small step feat. James Pace

And this is what you see in the scripture. You know, they talk about, as Jesus said, as you go. So it's the, as you go, as you go through life, you are an example of Christ. And it's those moments that add up to an ultimate conversion. But you get to celebrate all those small things. So this is what we did.

and gents, welcome to Voices of Life, the podcast with topics related to the apostolic faith in the 21st century. Let's talk about what interests you here on Voices of Life.

and welcome everybody back to Voices of Life. Today we are so excited to have Pastor Pace with us and he is from Vienna and today is the first time that he's here in Mannheim with us and he preached and it's a Sunday, it is a Sunday actually, the recording we are doing here and it was an awesome message and we attacked him and asked him if he would be willing to do a little podcast episode with us. And he said yes. So that's why we have this episode. Please brother Pace, just introduce yourself real quick to our audience.

Well, thank you so much for allowing me to be here.

thank you for coming.

I feel privileged to be a part of the first 10 podcast ever.

yes, right? Among the first 10 episodes that we record, yes. Top

Top 10. Well, I guess, yeah, it would be top 10 naturally.

course, yeah.

problem. Yes, so yeah, my name is James Pace and I've been in Europe for about 12 years and living and working in these areas, specifically the German-speaking nations. And Before that, my family and I were from Chicago, and ministry speaking, we spent 10 years starting a church in Chicago. We assisted Pastor Brent Brosom in the Chicago area, and that was so much fun, starting a new church, and then, I thought it couldn't get any better, and then we came to Europe, and just to be able to be in this area that's so full of history, and then has, you know, its own set of specific challenges, but it's so much fun. But you know, it's fun to work for the Lord. Amen.

is.

know, regardless of where you're at, because it gives you some sort of purpose that just a lot of people don't have, you know, I was with 1 of our young people and we were in the line. Has it started yet? Has the podcast started yet? Yes.

okay. No problem. Just go on. We are enjoying it already. We are listening to it. No problem.

didn't know if I was supposed to. It's going on.

it's, yeah. So we were in line the other day at a hardware store and there was a girl that was in front of us and she was older, you know, maybe sixties, seventies. And, you know, she had a couple of plants in her baggie and I turned to our youth pastor and I said, you know, I mean, there's a lot of people that this is their life, nothing wrong with plants. I like plants, But if, if, if this is going to be like the highlight, you know, there are some people that that's the highlight of their life, you know, these, these, these potted plants.

And they talk to them.

that's another, that's another episode. And again, you know, nothing wrong with, with stuff like that, but you know, just to be able to have some sort of purpose that's bigger than plants is, often we overlook it, but I don't care what you're doing. You know, I mean, if you're, if you're in this church is so, so big, you probably need 3 or 4 cleaning teams, but if you're, you know, if you're on the cleaning team and you're cleaning a church, like you're already better off than like having a couple, you know, I don't even care what kind of plants it is. It could be all different types of plants.

or pets for that reason. Right. I mean the same thing.

that's true.

But we have a lot of plants at home, so I could start naming, But I think I wouldn't come to an end soon.

our house plants would not survive, so we are not really qualified. To me I'm not qualified to talk about plants at all.

for us it's a miracle that the Lord did with the wedding of me and my wife, because before she also could never take care of them, and they always died off under her. But since we married and moved together, they just seem to be happy.

they feel the love in your house. That's why they're growing. Yeah.

thanks for the explanation, because I was wondering, what do you mean it's fun to work for the Lord? But that really is something. We have that deep purpose when we do something for God or for the church of God and it's fulfilling and it's giving us a real deep kind of fun or enjoyment. And we are actually grateful then that we, we are being used and that we can do whatever we do. So that's really great. Yeah.

guys probably don't know this, but there's a German word.

don't know that.

I love it. Yeah. I get to do this now because I mean, my German is B1, you know, which is Pretty awesome.

just an awesome guy, of course.

you hear, whenever you hear somebody, this is so funny. It's usually when non-Germans, they will use a German word as if they have found something that nobody else in the world knows. And it'll be the simplest word. I don't know if you guys noticed that probably because you're used to it, but I notice it as a German learner. You know, they'll, they'll say, they'll say schmittling as, as if like, it's a word that they've discovered from the clay, like they dug it up somewhere. It's a relic. And you know, I'm like, bro, all you said was butterfly. It wasn't really that awesome.

when you say it in German, it's more mystical, you know, it's wow. Schmetterling. Schmetterling, yeah.

mean, it is so nice. So the word I was going

say was zufrieden. Zufrieden, yeah.

But see, when you say it in German, It sounds smarter than just saying satisfied.

Oh, thank you for that compliment.

Americans really see us that way?

and I also like zufrieden because It has that Frieden in it, peace in it, you know, and it has, it has a rich meaning. Definitely. I don't know if satisfied can compete. Well, we're making friends with our English listeners here.

the last episode they listen to. Thank you so much. Amen. So you are married, you have kids and you are in Vienna now, right? Yes, sir.

been there for 6 years and my youngest son would have been 1 whenever he came to Europe. And so they've, you know, it is kind of, they've been raised in Europe. And so they're fluent in German. And whenever we go back to my home, Chicago, they see it. It was funny. Cause the first time, first couple of times we went back home, I would say, yeah, we're going home to Chicago. And they finally corrected me and they said, Well, no, that's not home. We're going on vacation to see grandma. Home is in Vienna. Wow. Wow. Yeah. It's in Europe. Yeah. So yeah, that's been cool to see that, but yeah, kids are doing awesome in school and we're just blessed, You know, I mean, God just, God blesses every part of your life.

the

to the bottom.

I'm

for it. And it's exciting.

It is. And it's for sure a change for you guys. I mean, not for your kids, especially, but for you as grownups, you know, being raised in the States and then traveling to a different country, different mentality, different culture, and then being there trying to win souls for the Lord. Because, you know, we are talking about personal evangelism. Are there any differences that you noticed, you know, reaching out for people in the States compared to here in Europe, for example?

so I mean, you know, naturally, you would see that, you know, a different makeup of people. But I do think that, you know, obviously the principle kind of remains the same, because you could start dissecting the differences in culture. And sometimes people make too much of it, I think, because at the end of the day, I mean, people are people. And so, you could say, oh, Is it harder to win? This type of people are easier. And you could spend some time talking about that. But the principles that Jesus put into place to win people, it's the same. And he's so smart. Okay, Jesus is smart.

revelatory. I mean, that's pretty new. He is the smartest.

know, God is so smart that he put into, okay. So if, if it was up to you, Okay. So you gotta, you gotta think about this way. If it was up to you and you knew you only had 3 and a half years on the earth and you had to put into place something that was going to last 2000 years, You know, what he did was he invested in 12 people.

And they were not the upper class, you know, from society.

Yeah. It doesn't matter who they were. You know, the point is, if it was up to me, that's probably not what I would have done. I would have probably built some building. I would have probably had a huge social media blitz.

a podcast.

podcast. I would have had 3 or 4 podcasts. Oh, okay. Different languages. But no, Jesus, he just, he just spent time with 12 people. And if you think about it, it's, I mean, it's brilliant. What a brilliant idea. And because he spent time with those 12 people, they, they, they gathered something, something was solidified in their hearts. And after he left, they continued on and not only did they continue on, but they were absolutely successful.

And so here, you know, 2000 years later, it's an absolute success.

they were modeling Jesus. Yep.

Yep. Modeling what, you know, what he done, you know, and we kind of, we had service this morning and, and it was kind of what I was trying to say is, you know, we're, I was taking a look at all the times that Jesus interacted with people and it just blew me away. I was studying it this week, how that he would, he would grab people by the hand whenever he was dealing with them. And it seems so like, you know, so casual, I guess, but it's like that personal interaction with God that he would come down and he would interact with people and he would literally just grab ahold of their hand. It just struck me as so like, like, just so amazing, but it's just that personal touch. And that's what we see.

That's, that's what, that's what Christ did. He was approachable, I think.

was just so real and it was so real that it convinced people not just to follow him, but to give their lives. I mean, they literally, and you know the stories, but they gave their lives in such a way that it's just unthinkable for most of us. But they did it because they saw some sort of genuine care from Christ that, you know, just superseded all that. So,

I guess they also felt a love that they have never felt before. And this love that they felt, I guess it's what kept them also. And they were willing, like you said, to sacrifice a lot, even to give their lives for, for that cause. Yeah.

Yup. And so I guess to your point, to your point, you know, evangelism in Europe, of course, I haven't been here as long as you have. So I'm, I'm not really, I'm not an expert, but you asked me to be on this podcast.

has to educate us, right?

you know, I mean, obviously that's, that's my job. You know what I mean? That's kind of why I'm here in Europe is to reach people. So naturally that would be what at least I would be passionate about. You know, if it might not be a profi, but at least you're passionate about it. And so, so would it be okay if I just kind of talked about the last 6 years and kind of the lessons I've learned?

That sounds good. So we try to get it done all in 10 minutes. Wow.

just talk really fast. Let's go. So, so yeah. Okay. So what do you do? So this is what we did. We, and some of them are successes and some of them were failures, but you know, there was a book that came out and maybe you've read it. It's, it was called Follow to Lead.

Cleason.

Right. Yep. Got it. And there's a lot of people that read that book. A great book

a great guy.

and so, basically we just kind of tried to put some of that stuff into practice. Because, and I don't really know how to say this, but like that book, it really came to me personally at a perfect time, because this is what I know. I know apostolics. I don't care who, which apostolic it is. They want to win somebody to the Lord more than anything else in this world. Amen. I mean, I don't care who you talk to, every person you talk to, they're all passionate about souls. Yeah. Now, you know, however that happens, some of them just cook, some of them clean, preach, teach, pray, et cetera. But apostolics, I don't care who they are, every single 1 of them really wants to win a soul. Like almost like too much. Like They want to win somebody to the Lord more than anything else in this world. But what happened and what I think, what I saw happen, even in my own life, is that it was kind of like, all you did was look at the goal and it was, I didn't really know how to get there. And, you know, getting there to actually, you know, being with somebody that, that the last few moments when they actually give their life to Christ, and then you can kind of just disciple them the rest of the way or whatever, you know, it was almost like, and this is what I saw, there was like so much pressure build up to win somebody that the first time that they talk to somebody, they were trying to lay hands on them and get them into the water of baptism.

out the demons and yeah.

mean, and, and they had known them for, you know, 5 minutes because there was just so much pressure and it wasn't necessarily bad. It wasn't bad at all, but it was, that's kind of what I felt. I even felt it in my own life. And I think it was made worse. The fact that you're speaking to somebody in a foreign language. And so literally every single second that you're talking to this person you know that it's you only got 30 seconds left before this conversation is gonna end. And I think maybe we've just amplified feeling that pressure.

I think when you said it, some people think, if I lose that person, if that person is not willing to follow God, I am a failure. But just imagine what Jesus did when he was on this earth. He preached to so many people and tried to reach so many people, and even he could not reach them all. So and then we put ourselves under so much pressure. Like you said, we tried to convert them in 5 minutes so that they are the perfect Christian.

yep, Yep. And also what I saw was, is that the only thing that I was celebrating in my own life was when somebody received the Holy ghost and was baptized in Jesus name and had repented of their sins.

And so that, that book, which if you haven't read it, you need to read it. But what that, it kind of shed a light on is there's a whole process before you get there and focusing on that process And celebrating. So we celebrate the first time you meet somebody. We celebrate the fact that you had a 5 minute conversation as opposed to a 30 second conversation. We have a lot of 10 second conversations. You had a 5 minute conversation with somebody. Wow. That's pretty incredible. You got a phone number of somebody? What?

next level.

and this is what you, this is what you see in the scripture. You know, they talk about as Jesus said, as you go. So it's the, as you go, as you go through life, you, you are an example of Christ. And it's those moments that add up to an ultimate conversion, but you get to celebrate all those small things. So this is what we did. I don't know if this was, I think it was a great idea. That's why I'm talking about it. So we stuck downstairs, we stuck about a, let's say 4 meter by 3 meter big wall. And we just covered it up with stuff that you could write on. And we got these stickers and the stickers about the size of your hand. And what we did is we said this year, we are going to every moment that you spend with somebody, you're gonna write it on this sticker and you're gonna put it on the wall. And so-

name of the person or? Everything. Oh, everything, okay.

usually it was just what you did.

Okay.

it would be walking with friend on the wall, got a coffee. I got, I got a coffee with my, with my best friend, boom on the wall, you know, had a 10 minute conversation on the phone with somebody, you know? And so by the end of the year, the whole wall was filled up. But what it was is it was celebrating and drawing attention to the fact that this is how you do it. You know, I already know you want to win a soul. Yep. You're crying, you're fasting, you're praying. I mean, it's obvious. I mean, you want to win somebody. So how you do it is it's just celebrating every small interaction that you can. And it became so much fun. Soul winning became fun. As opposed to like trying to like, you know, feeling all this pressure and getting frustrated. People, we were celebrating just the simplest things that people were able to do with other people. And what happens over time is you get to be a friend with the person. I mean, it's not rocket science. And you guys probably already know this, but I'm just saying this is what we went through. It's like celebrating all those small things, it enabled us to get to the place where we could develop relationships, and now we're in Bible studies. So, I mean, it's a long process, but you're in Bible studies, and I got news for you. You get somebody into a Bible study, they're probably gonna end up coming to church, they're probably gonna end up getting baptized. And I mean, all of the newer people that we've had in our church over the last few years have all been through this process. Getting a relationship to them, getting them into Bible study. But in order to keep motivated, because that's a long process, in order to keep motivated, you just gotta learn how to celebrate the small things. And so you get excited about, you know, no, they didn't repent. No, they're not even close to coming to God, but this is the second time you've met with them in 2 months. Praise God. I think, I think, I think we're onto something here and the Holy Ghost will do the rest of the work. So in Jesus name.

I think that's a great idea to keep everybody motivated to do that.

have a question about that. Do the people that then came to church, do they see that wall too and see like the process they went through themselves?

could. Yeah. I mean, and, and, you know, there's, there's literally hundreds of things up there, but if you, if, if they looked and I don't, I don't know if anybody's ever brought them to it. Of course that was a couple of years ago. Now the walls we've moved on to something else, but the wall was up there for a long time and theoretically you could. Yep. So, but yeah, that'd be kind of cool. That's what I just thought. Yeah. Yeah. I'm walking up. Remember here? Yeah. You didn't know. Yeah. Yeah. You're on the wall. Mm-hmm.

were there already in our minds and.

Yeah, that's really cool.

Yeah. And you talked about things that worked and that was obviously something that worked and also things that did not work out, would you say that was like, or that in general, is there a wrong way to evangelize people or is it just things that don't work or things that work?

It's so tricky because it doesn't matter what you do. Let's say passing out flyers. Okay. That's kind of the classic deal. Okay. I think 1 time we counted how many flyers were being passed out and it was like 500,000. I mean, you know, it was, the number was ridiculous.

You know, same experience.

And you know what, And I actually, that's crazy because now that you said that now I'm reminded of what we did before the board. Mm-hmm. So we passed out flyers, thousands of them and didn't get anything back besides 1. Okay, so, and that's the problem with this. You know, when you start talking about methods, it's like, you're gonna throw flyers out, and okay, yeah, it was 500,000, we spent, you know, a couple of 10, whatever, you know, but we do have 1 person. So then the question is, okay, well, are you never going to do the flyers? No. But so then what we moved on is the next thing before the board was, instead of doing flyers, we said, okay, This is what we're going to do. Let's, we're going to take the same team, the evangelism team that would meet every Saturday. And instead of passing out flyers, we're going to, forget the flyers, our goal, and this was tied to the same thing, our goal is we're going to go into this park. And so we would, we would go to the Stott Park for us because it was a beautiful park and there was hundreds of people there and we would split up. It was so much fun. We had so much fun doing this because it was all a setup. What we would do, it was so funny. We would go into a park and we'd say, okay, the goal is to get into a conversation. Even if you only have 1 conversation the whole day, like that's your goal. The goal is not to pass out flyers. Pass out flyers, there's no connection there. I don't think Jesus was passing out flyers.

So, I mean,

know, I mean, now if that's all you can do, go for it. Cause we've had, we've had people come into the church because of a flyer. Yeah, me too. I'm not gonna say whatever, whatever. But so what we would do is we'd walk into the park, we'd split up and we would just walk around and I would see somebody on a bench. It was so funny. I would get me a newspaper. I would literally sit next to him on the bench. And then it's this like these, oh, I had some awkward moments. Of course, you get some awkward moments because you're trying to bridge the gap between you're a random stranger

I just sat next to you, but it was so much fun. I mean, and we would work together in teams where like 1 person would go first, you know, and kind of sit down and then like, and then we would come up next to him and like, Oh, Hey, what's up? And then he was like joining in this conversation, but it was so much fun Because, because I got to, and again, maybe that was even more so for me because it was all in, it was all in the language that I was learning. And so I was enjoying just having a conversation.

In German. But then, you know, and during those days, there'd be many days where I would just meet 1 person but I would have a 30 minute conversation. Sometimes I would have an hour conversation there's a reason why they're in the park sitting there by themselves

I got much to do. So I found that it's possible. Now there was a couple of times where I sat down next to the guy and after about 3 or 4 times trying to talk to him, I had 1 guy just turn to me and be like, what do you want? Wow.

me alone.

He was onto the game. He understood like, what are you doing? Are you trying to like sell me drugs or what? So, you know,

just doing that on the side.

man. Wow. I don't know.

I mean, I mean, doesn't Paul talk about us being drunk by the Holy Spirit instead

by wine? That sounds like another episode. Right.

I think that's also very important just to have a conversation because people nowadays They really don't talk to each other and that's probably Why it's so effective sometimes and not as effective with you have a flyer and just hand it to him like your project you know what I mean? So like I saw it often by people who just like, take a flyer, take a flyer, and take a flyer. And people think, I'm not your guinea pig. I'm doing my business, blah, blah, blah. But if you actually have a conversation with them, try to find an interest in them, they notice that. And they don't get that a lot from people, that interest of furdub. So I think that's very effective just to talk to people. And they always also remember your face. I mean, I've also had a story. My wife, she has a lot of stories. So, yeah, my wife, she was in a tram with my daughter, and I think they were driving to church, and there was this 1 lady who saw my daughter, and was like, oh, she's so cute, blah, blah, blah. And then they started talking about children, about kids, and she has 2, and blah, blah, blah, and what's the future plan? And then they went their separate ways. And my wife, she was kind of discouraged. She was like, ah, because I wanted to talk more with this lady because she was very nice and I almost got to exchange phone numbers wherever but it didn't work out. And a couple weeks later we went back into the tram and I held my daughter and my wife was sitting somewhere else and this lady came in, saw this child and said, oh so cute, blah blah blah, so cute. And my wife came up to do something and then the lady saw my wife, she's like, oh, I remember you, we talked a couple weeks ago, blah, blah, about your child. And so people remember actually your faces when you really talk to them. And that's why it's so important to really have an eye contact conversation with them. Yeah. So I just wanted to put that out there for people out there who's listening that it is very important.

people are so alone. Yeah. It's crazy.

got 500 friends though on Facebook. But they're still alone. Yeah.

are so lonely. It's crazy. And we have the community of the church. So we forget about that, But that's, it blows my mind just how lonely people are. But you gotta get into there, that place where you can talk to them, but yeah. I think It's interesting

you also read about Jesus, what He did when He was on this earth. He didn't just teach and preach. He went to the people to meet their needs. And after their needs were met, then they were also open for his words. I know not all of those people, but a lot of them. And sometimes I guess we do it wrong, you know, we are not interested in their needs, but we expect them to be interested in what we have to say.

you stop and think about it, it makes a lot of sense. They're not going to care how much you know until they know how much you care.

man, This episode is actually now over. I'm so sorry. I think we could have gone on to much more hours actually, many more hours to get the topic. Maybe we're going to have a part 234.

means you have to come back? Yes.

That's why we did that episode to finally, you know, pribe you and you have to come back. Yeah. Put you under pressure.

Thank you so much for sharing those stories about things that you have tried evangelizing in your city. And I think it's really an encouragement. It was an encouragement for me to not be frustrated because you don't reach your goal, because actually it reminds me of a saying that says, the way is the goal. Something like that, You know, the process of whatever you are aiming at is the actual thing that it is about. So it really encourages me to just keep on talking to people and keep on being happy about every interaction that you have with them And thank God for that and praise God for that and keep on doing that because that's what He did. He took care of them and He was there for them and talked to them. And Then what you said, 12 disciples were the result of that, that were really powerful instruments in the hands of God. So, thank you so much for sharing those things.

and we will keep those people in prayer that we've come in contact with. And nevertheless, God is giving the increase. He is the 1. And He sees that too, and He will work also on those people and draw them with His Spirit. Amen. Amen. Brother Pace, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. And I know you just started to talk, we just scrapped the surface of it. We will get to it hopefully. And even though if we have to do it online or somehow, but it was a pleasure talking to you and having you here on our podcast. And hopefully we'll have you again here in Mannheim, but also here on our podcast. Yeah.

I look forward to being attacked again.

That's that's how we do it here. Thank you so much. You want to add anything? Fine. All right. Well, thank you for listening to this episode. I know we just started to talk a little bit about the topic, but we'll get into it even more in the future. And just subscribe if you have not subscribed to it and tell a friend about this podcast, share it and hopefully we will be a blessing for you guys. If you have a comment, write down a comment. We would love to read some comments and get some feedback from you. And God bless you all and seeing or hearing or whatever you next time. God bless.

you. Bye bye.