Christian music - More than entertainment

That's actually even what Paul said, that's in Colossians 3, 16, there he said that we should admonish, encourage each other with songs and hymns and spiritual songs and singing those in our hearts. Amen. Yeah.

Ladies and gents, welcome to Voices of Life, the podcast with topics related to the apostolic faith in the 21st century. Let's talk about what interests you here on Voices of Life.

Hello and welcome back to the Voices of Life. Today we record another episode and we're gonna talk about music. And because music is a very big and pretty complex topic, you will realize probably that We don't always give the most straightforward advice to everything or very clear or hard rules. Instead, we will just try to talk about our opinions, views and recommendations about the topic and we are really looking forward to do that. The Bible is giving us different statements about music. And 1 thing it gives us for sure and at many places, and that is

that music is powerful. 1 example for that we find in 2 Kings chapter 3 in verse 15. There we read that Elisha asked to bring him Minstrel, someone who does music. Minstrel. Minstrel. Sorry. Right. And then we read, and it came to pass when the minstrel played that the hand of the Lord came upon him. So by the music, the hand of God came on Elisha and great things happened. So we see music has a powerful impact and here a positive impact. And with this thought, I wanted to start this conversation. Since we are in

the subject of music, I'm just going to take up that curveball and just go with it into our service. Because in our services, we also use a lot of music. We also play music, we sing, we worship, and music is an important part of our services. In English, it's even called worship services. In German, we have a little bit different word. It's called God's service, if you translate it directly. But in English, it's called worship services. So worship is an integral part of what we're doing when we come together in the house of God. And why

is that? Because worship creates an atmosphere. It creates an atmosphere where God enters in and God can start working. It focuses our minds, our thoughts, all of our being on this moment with God. And worship does not only have to be music, but since our topic is music today, we're going to focus on that mainly. And depending on what music is played, it creates a different kind of atmosphere. If it's Christian music like we do it or worship music we inspire the people to worship and we inspire the people to praise the 1 true living God

but there are also other atmospheres that can be created through music.

I think also music attracts spirits and attracts people. So when it comes to church music, we'll have hopefully the Holy Spirit that is attracted to it and we have angels that feel comfortable around a place where there is worship going on, worship music going on. And compared to that, let's go to a club, outside somewhere in the city you go to a club, most likely you would not hear or you will not hear some Christian music. It's just other party music and then people are also attracted to that place and bad, dirty, evil spirits also are

attracted to such an environment. And what happens usually, here in Germany we have a music genre called Schlager, and that attracts also certain types of people. And what they mainly do is they go there to drink, and drink, and they drink. That's what they mainly do. And then they are so full, they are totally drunk. And then it's just chaos. And you have that in Globst as well. You have morally evil spirits, degenerated spirits, and people that are in such environments, they will become like those spirits after a while. So music is important. Music attracts spirits.

Music creates an atmosphere. It is either a good atmosphere, an atmosphere of faith, faith-building atmosphere that we need in our churches and in our worship services. We just had a conference here, we were talking about that previously, and we had a great start, but we had a better last, the service actually.

Yeah, we had a great ending. Yeah, it was just awesome. We danced, praised and lifted our hands in every… Lifted our hands. Like we said, we praised and lifted our hands and praised. And it was just awesome because we said in our German episode that you go into a conference or into a set full of services. At first, you are maybe like just getting into the service, just try to get into the weekend in general, but because of the worship you have with your brothers and sisters and everything like that, at the end of that conference

or that weekend, That praise is just much greater and just more easily to worship because everybody around you has another expectation and is worship of, no, how would you say, it's full of praise because of the weekend we had. So yeah.

Yeah. Because of the things that already have happened the days before.

Exactly.

And they got used to the surrounding maybe, you know, the first day everything was new and, Oh, where are we here? Hey, they painted the walls. It's looking different and, Oh, and look who's here. And, but then everything isn't as new anymore some days after. And yeah, you already had big moves of God, and so you are very excited to have a big move of God again. And at the last day especially, you want to, I think you said that, like, get out as much of it as you can, because it's the last opportunity where you

are together like this. I also felt that in the last service now at the conference that we had, We were in the spirit right away when the music started. So the music really brought, with the music came that atmosphere and that presence of God really strongly.

And with music, there always comes also movements that join that music. Like you said, we all join together in worship. It's the lifting of hands, it's jumping, it's running, it's shouting, it's dancing, it's singing. And that's just what makes a difference. And I really like what you mentioned in our German episode about that those movements are what happens no matter where you are. If you are in a concert setting, people lift up their hands, people shout together, or at sports events as well, They sing together to cheer on their team. There are chants just for certain

teams to demoralize the other team, the opposing team and give your own team more moral. And the same thing happens in a service setting, especially a conference, when many people come together, you lift up your hands together, you sing together. It's much easier in a group than doing it all by yourself. That's true.

And this music, like I said, invites spirits. And then when we worship and they worship in their sports arena or in their concert and the artist says, you know, let's everybody raise their hands, you know, raise your hands and go crazy, whatever, move it to the right and so on. And then they do it, what they do actually is they become 1. They agree and they invite their spirits there and then when you invite the spirits then they feel comfortable and they start moving and working. And it's similar in our services. When we start praying and

we worship Him, we sing to Him, and we lift our hands, we clap and we do it all together, there's a unity. We also invite the Spirit of God. And then when he comes, the spirit of God also is working. Of course, it has a positive effect compared to the other spirits in those other settings. So this is also a thing to just consider, and it's very important.

And also a thing is when you don't lift your hands in a setting like a concert or club or whatever, or you don't start to dance with everybody else, you will be the odd 1 out. Everybody will look at you like, what is wrong with this person? Why is he not joining in? Why is he not doing what everybody else does? But when we put that in a church setting now, when that's what you said, now I remember. I'll let you finish. Oh what?

Okay well in a church setting We also lift up our hands and praise the Lord and dance, but we dance because we want to dance in front of our God who saved us, who brought us out of darkness. And people who are not, doesn't know that church setting, they actually laugh at these people. Why are they dancing? They're crazy. What are they doing? But the weekend after that, they go to a concert and do actually the same thing for actually no really, no great reason at all, just because of an artist who's up there on the

stage who gets millions of dollars, millions of followers, whatever, and says, lift up your hands or give me a dance move, whatever. And so yeah, that's what we were talking about, that is just so, yeah, it's just so awful to see. Yeah, not cringe, but it's just... Strange? Oh, strange, yeah. Thank you, thank you. I wasn't cringed. But it's so strange to see that in front of a living God, that's just odd or just crazy. But in front of something dead or wrong, that's just how life is.

It's not our topic, but you mentioned dancing. Does somebody want to explain what we consider dancing in our church compared to dancing in clubs and wherever?

Yeah, that's very important to do because when we talk about dancing, it has nothing to do with what people think of it in the world most of the time, because we don't try to practice dance moves or styles or dance with a partner or, you know, try to do break dance on the floor or something crazy like that. Instead, when we dance, it's like a movement out of our heart towards God. In our German episode, pastor compared it to a baby when a baby grows up and starts listening to music before it's old enough to imitate

parents or siblings or anything, it normally just like grooves along, maybe, you know, lifts its hands, whatever, just expresses what it feels about the music in movement. And so it's maybe a little bit similar to that when we talk about dancing in church, it's just expressing the emotion and the worship and the words in movement, and not so that I feel good about myself or that I get happy by my dance or something, but to direct it towards God and to have it as just another way of lifting him up.

There are no apostolic dance schools, actually. But sometimes you have the impression that there are some people that imitate others while they dance. But generally it is from our hearts.

I just remembered, I once took a screenshot of that, there is a Middle English word, it's called to balter, and it says to dance gracelessly without particular art or skill, but perhaps with some enjoyment. Perhaps. So it's just no art or skill that we use, like we said. It's just, we do it out of enjoyment, just for the pure enjoyment of being in the presence of God and reacting to it. And I just thought That was funny when I, let's see that's a picture, I'm showing it around now, maybe you can see it there as well.

So that just came to my mind and I thought it

was wonderful.

And this, but since we're on that topic anyway, I just want to bust a bubble before we move any further. That's a very important bubble. You cannot listen to just a beat or the melody of a music without listening to the words. I think that's very important, especially for the younger generation, because sometimes we, I include myself in that this time, we maybe sometimes try to tell ourselves, well, I just like the feel of the music, but the words, they do not influence me. And I think personally now, the only reason you would ever say that

is because you know the words are not good, and you know you shouldn't listen to it.

It's just a cheap excuse.

Yeah. And you just try to to justify it for yourself to listen to worldly music, worldly lyrics in it. And it is just, the truth is, it will influence you rather sooner than later, because it just goes into your subconsciousness. Those words, you just download them, so to say, onto your file. And maybe sometimes when you fall into a certain kind of sin or you fail God in any way, sometimes it's good to look back and see what did you get busy with? What did you listen to? What influenced you over that time before that? For

you, it might seem all of a sudden, why did I fall now? Why did I fail so bad in this when I don't even know what I did wrong, but when you look back and see what you listened to and what you got busy with, maybe that's an indicator of where it came from.

I'm a testimony to that. I mean, I said that a couple episodes before that I wasn't in church my whole life. I mean, it was just for a few years where I wasn't in church, but in those few years I listened to that music that wasn't good for me, wouldn't have the best of words in the lyrics. And at first it was like, oh, it doesn't influence me at all. I just listen, like we said, I just listen to the beat. Sometimes there's some good message behind it even though there's there are bad words whatsoever but

at the end of the day I listen more and more and more to it and then suddenly my my language was different. I spoke differently. I said words more easily that I wouldn't say. Never. Now, never. And I thought of things that were morally not correct, I thought of it differently. I thought, oh, We can see it that way, you can do this in that type of way, and stuff like that. And also my lifestyle was completely changed into the negative way. So yeah, it's like you said, it does influence you in a really bad way

and you have to be really careful what you listen to and what you also see as well. So yeah, I just wanted to say that.

That's a bubble that

just burst.

I'm sorry.

I needed to do that. So yeah, you cannot just listen to some music with lyrics behind it and think they are not influencing you. Our brain collects information all the time, even when we are sleeping. So subconsciously you will get those lyrics into your system somehow and they will influence, like you said, in a bad way or they can, when It's good context, good music, Christian music can build you up, of course, and strengthen you, and turn your attention to God, actually. That's what music is basically for, worship music. It is to worship God, to get

a focus on God. And it's not done just for plain entertainment. And we talked also about that. And of course, Christian music, sometimes we have it in our houses, we play it in the background, and it's more like an entertainment sometimes, or it's just to have it somewhere and that is not a bad thing in at all because this kind of music invites good spirits, invites the Holy Spirit, invites angels so that is not a problem. The only problem I have sometimes is when you see modern Christian artists that try to create music to entertain people

and to win prizes. Yeah, yeah. Then I think it went in the wrong direction.

Yeah, And you have some of that music, it's getting so complicated that you can hardly put that into a session of novices is not the right word, but like not professionals, I'll just say it like that. And they cannot catch up to that song soon enough because the melodies are so intricate, they are so complicated. The melody lines of the musicians are so hard to play that you cannot even come close to replicating it without being a professional or practicing for years, just that 1 song. So that's what makes it sometimes also hard in today's atmosphere

or surrounding of music to choose songs for a service setting, where you can have a kind of challenge, so to say, for the musicians, that it's not just really 1 chord that you just strum the whole time, but that you don't go into the other extreme, making it so complicated that people need to hear that song like 10 times before they can actually join in and maybe sing a chorus. So that's also a balance that we need to watch out for, that those songs that we sing in service settings are easy to join in. Also, for

people who maybe can hardly sing a note or hold a tune are easy to understand and easy to follow so that their worship is not hindered. That's something, Pastor, you once said that still sticks with me. When you came back from America, I don't know what church you were, but you talked about that it was so easy, even for you as a person who does not listen to music that much, but it was so easy for you, even though you didn't know the song, it was easy for you to join in worship. And that's a goal

I really just have and try to strive for with the music team here as well that we have that people come to the service, they hear that song for the first time and it's so simple or made so simple that everybody's able to join into worship and that the worship is not hindered through it.

I think also worship songs, they don't only just help you in worship, they also give you hope, they also give you strength, they also give you inner peace. I mean, there's so many words or sentences in songs that I listen to. And when I listen to them, they just touch me in a so calming way. Like, it is well with my soul, for instance. Like whatever happens, whatever came my way, I know you're in control, so it is well my soul. Or you took what the enemy meant for evil, but you turned it for good. Only

a simple sentence like that, they just lift you up. Like I said, of course, it's also for the worship, but it's also for you to be encouraged from the week you had or from the day you had or for whatever you're going through. So yeah, that's just also a very good influence.

Yeah, I think that really leads us to another kind of category of music that is maybe not for a Sunday setting because it's not so easy, but maybe it's still good for personal encouragement or you can listen to it privately, whether it is during prayer or we even said it's okay sometimes in the background, because it still brings up a good atmosphere in your house and draws near the right kind of spirits, so to say.

And It also fills your heart with good content. It's the reading of God's word, of course, but also good Christian music with some substance behind it. Because then it's in your heart, and sometimes when you face certain situations, you can draw from it. And not just the word of God, but also song text like you just said. And that's why it is important to have that, to listen to it.

That's actually even what Paul said, that's in Colossians 3, 16. There he said that we should admonish, encourage each other with songs and hymns and spiritual songs and singing those in our hearts. Amen. Yeah, that's really good. But of course, for that to happen, you need to be able to know what kind of songs are doing those good things, because there are maybe other songs that don't do good things like this. And so for this you need to be spiritually really mature and need the Holy Spirit actually. That's why we have it, so that he can

show you what kind of music is good for you or not.

I remember we talked about the different music styles or genres that there are out, like Christian hip-hop, rap, metal, Christian metal and all that stuff, or Christian country, for some English listeners, Christian country. Howdy! Yeah, and some other styles. And that's why we said in the beginning it's not that we have clear rules against it, we say you never have Christian rap or hip-hop or you never have Christian country music. Well in some cases it's personal preferences and I'm not talking about my preferences right now because maybe other people will be offended by it. If I

say this style of music I don't like it at all. But it's personal preference in this case. But anyway, we need to be able to differentiate what is good for us and what is not good for us. Even though the lyrics might not be bad, but the music behind it evokes maybe feelings from the past and the old lifestyle that we used to live. So we need to be careful with that. And that's why God gave us the Holy Spirit. And we also talked about it and I may just end this thought, not the episode, don't

worry, just this kind of thought is that everybody's leaving, all right, table is empty, it's just me. Well, no. Like I said, we have the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit leads and guides us. But let's face it, if you're pretty new in the Lord, you've just been born again, it's 2 weeks later, you have not learned yet to differentiate between the different voices that come to you, to your mind. It could be the Holy Spirit, it could be your spirit, it could be an evil spirit, it could be God talking to you directly and so

on. And so sometimes the music that you're listening to then feels good, but it's not necessarily good for you. So in the beginning, when you are born again, it's like you are now a Christian baby. And the same way it is with normal babies, they don't know what to eat. They really don't know. They need to be fed by somebody else. And then when they grow up and eventually they are old enough to really know what is good food and what is bad food, and then they are able, they are mature enough to decide what is

good for them. And that's the same way when you are born again, you're a spiritual baby, you need somebody to tell you what is good for you to listen to when it comes to music and what is bad and you shouldn't do that. And so listen to those people, listen to your pastor, listen to your elder saints in the church that have experiences with God and don't believe and fall for the lie of the devil that if your pastor says well let's say he says to you don't listen to Christian rap music for example And then

the devil will tell you a lie and say, well, that's just because your pastor doesn't like Christian rap and that's by his personal preference and he tells you not to listen to it. That is a lie. Because as a pastor, we do have personal preferences, that is absolutely right, but when I counsel somebody in the church, I pray and ask God what to do and what to say, and then God impresses on me by the Holy Spirit that this person, Christian rap for example, is not good to listen to. And so then I have to tell

that person. I may not have all the different reasons why, but the Holy Ghost impressed on me it is not good for him or her to listen to it. And that's why I go there and say, don't listen to it and don't believe the lie of the devil that says it's just because of his personal preferences. Amen. That's right.

Do you want

to add anything?

I can just confirm it because I had the same topic actually about rap for myself and also with my younger brother 1 time when he got really into the rap. That was Also when he just really hit puberty, amazingly enough. And I really felt back then, as well my mom, that it's not good for him to listen to those songs, at least at that time. But even what I felt in my spirit when I listened to those kind of songs. It was really a kind of rebellion that pressed on my spirit and tried to get into

me as I was listening. So that was my personal experience with it. And that's, for example, why I know that for sure sometimes it's not good to listen to it, even if it has Christian texts. But it's hard to make any general statements. Because it might be

really a bad influence on you, this type of music, and for other people it might not be that bad. That's why we cannot say clearly, don't listen to it at all.

Yeah, just something personal, just like also Paul talked about it, about not being in, I think it's a stumbling block in English, the word, for your brothers and your sister. And he said, I think he even went that far and said, well, if I don't eat meat anymore because of that brother, I won't eat meat. It's better than not, it's better than being in stumbling block to him. And I think that's also similar in that case as well, to say, OK, maybe it's not even bad for you. Maybe you can cope with it. You're fine with

it. You're good. It really, if it's a Christian, and we're not talking about worldly music, that's never good. There's never a 0 yeah, that's all right to do, no matter how mature of a Christian you are in that moment. But in genres like that, maybe it is hard for somebody else. And he's like, oh yeah, I grew up in that rap environment, like you said, Pastor. And then he doesn't want to go back or go even near that type of music, even if it's Christian. And then we also have to be wise about that and say,

well, oh, it doesn't matter to me, you can listen to that too. And not be that insensitive to that person in that regard and just say, okay, well, I don't have to listen to it in that presence of that person

then. Thankfully, we have artists though, who are in the apostolic movement, who have great songs that are pushing out the last few years, who are easy songs to also sing in a worship or in a service setting. And I'm going to name a few names right now. And just, you know, just want to pop out. I'm going to name James Wilson and my favorite artist, Shireline Young. If you should ever listen to this, give us a shout out. No, I was just kidding. But yeah, thankfully we have like a lot of artists that came out over

the years and who are talented and they actually have good lyrics and really exciting songs that people in our, I would say, movement can hear.

And there's also an epistolic lifestyle behind it. Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

True.

And that is something worth imitating.

Because that's another point. Not just the genre can be maybe critical or not so good sometimes, but even just the artist, you know, because of his lifestyle, because of how he presents himself in videos maybe, or just the kind of way that he lives. And then people like his or her songs, and they also see how he or she lives and what she does, how she dresses and so on. And then they think, well, but I like the music and the music seems to be from God and for God. So for sure they must be godly

with what they do. So and then they maybe go down paths and are inspired in very bad ways by the artists. So that's another thing that You have to be very careful when you listen.

Or watch those music videos. Some of those videos, if you just turn off the sound all of a sudden and you just listen, watch the clip or the video.

Our music director has his hoodie on so he's acting crazy right now.

And you just watch this video, you think maybe, wow, it's just like another worldly video. With all of the lifestyle that they are presenting or living in this world. And then I'd say for sure I wouldn't support an artist like that. I would not.

It's very dangerous, yeah. And 1 Christian song doesn't make a person a Christian, especially around Christmas time. You'll have that a lot that also worldly artists will put out Christmas songs that are about Jesus, that are about worship. And oftentimes, I think, that's my personal opinion, They don't even really understand what they're singing about or know what they're singing about. It just sells.

It just sells

at Christmas. It's another target group.

And it hits. I mean, we have all kinds of artists that we have And think about when it comes to Christmas that we actually think about, oh yeah, that song, oh yeah, that song is nice. And then it just comes up as well.

Amen. So I think we will come to an end right now. And like we said, the music topic is a huge topic and we just touched a few little things about it. So if you have any other questions about it, some ideas or subtopics about music we should talk about, then let us know, write it down in the comment section and we would love to maybe do another episode on music and look differently on this subject.

And in order for you to not miss that, subscribe, like, share, do everything you can so that this episode gets out to the people, we would gladly, we would appreciate it very much. And comment it like Pastor said, whatever, if you liked it, if you didn't like it, that's also something. Please comment also if you didn't really like it, because that helps us to get better in what we're doing.

But don't press the dislike button, please. Just give out your comment and that's it. That's fine.

Let it be feedback, not just hate mail. Well, it was bad. Well, yeah, okay.

Well, If it's enough hate that we end up in all the headlines, you know.

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Thank you. That's what

I was looking for and we're looking forward to have you with us next time again on Voices of Life. See you then. God bless. Oh yes.

See you soon. All right. Bye. Bye. God bless you