Managing a Busy Life

If we don't have anything planned, it will never be able to reach that. For example, by luck or coincidence, you actually reach something. You may even have, you write a good grade in school at the exam that you had, or you'll accomplish something over the year when you do your yearly nut planning in this case, and you reach something like looking back, oh great, I reached that goal.

Ladies and gents, welcome to Voices of Life, the podcast with topics related to the apostolic faith in the 21st century. Let's talk about what interests you here on Voices of Life.

Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of Voices of Life. We're happy that you planned to be here with us today, because as you know, every Thursday at 05:00 German time, we release a new episode. So that is also a subject that we're going to talk about today, planning and scheduling. And I think you have the same experience as we, that sometimes you just forgot things, or deadlines were not met, or people tell you, oh, did you already do that? And you're like, do what? Oh no, I forgot. And we have that as well. But

we also have planners and calendars and programs, software or paper that helps us to plan and organize our lives, our schedules and that's what we're going to talk about today. We're going to share our experiences, we're going to share how we are going about organizing weeks, years, months and having all the dates in our minds. And so we'll just take you on this journey and we're happy that you're here. And we're just going to start right in.

Yeah, so I'm still in the paper business, so I still write my stuff in paper. I don't use the app not yet, but I'm thinking about it after the German episode. It looks like we have good apps to work with. So, but we'll talk about that later. But yeah, so I, me and my wife, we try to always end of the week or the beginning of the week, we're trying to sit down at the evening and try to just plan different things or schedule different things. Of course, we have the Sunday services and Friday meetings and

different things, Bible says, is already scheduled in, but all around it, We try to schedule from day to day, every week. So yeah. And of course, in a yearly basis, we try to schedule our vacations and other different events. And that's how we try to plan. But it's not as easy with a child now. So it's just a lousy excuse, but we're trying our best.

But that's a good point, because when you are alone and maybe even young and alone, I'm talking like 15 or something, then you don't have to worry so much about what am I going to do with my wee, you know, at least I didn't do that so much. And then when you are 2 persons, like I'm married now. Why are all of you laughing so much? When you're young and 15. 15 is,

yeah, that's kind of young.

I mean, Even 20 is young. Exactly. No, you are just old.

It was nice having this

episode with you. Bye. Now you hear the hitting noises of us beating up each other and that's the end.

Thanks for tuning in today.

Well, what should I say when you are a child and then they will laugh again and say I'm a child still.

We wouldn't say that.

No, we wouldn't.

You said that yourself.

I'm 21, so even in the States I'm allowed now to drink if I want to. I'm 22 though, not only 22.

You almost forgot that he's 22 already.

And I'm not drinking by the way, I just said that number because here in Germany you can drink with 14 if your parents allow it and are there at this time. Okay I'm so sorry.

We're talking about scheduling and planning.

Which was an important information for you guys. You need to schedule your drinking.

Otherwise the party won't take place. I remember how We said at camp sometimes, wow, this was a holy ghost party, because it was just so much joy of the Lord, and we were so happy in the presence of the Lord that we really thought, like, why do people even do drugs and all those party things? Like, the Lord is so much better, no side effects and no headache the next day. And joy that stays in your heart, you know, because you are still happy when you think how I'm saved and I have that promise.

That's true.

Amen. What a nice testimony. And this was not planned.

No, this was not planned.

That's why always leave some wiggle room, but always also have your plan.

Could you just repeat that? What is it?

Wiggle room. I don't know. Is that maybe Denglish? Maybe people know it. I'm talking like, have a plan, okay? But be spontaneous still enough or flexible enough to allow other things also. Otherwise you might miss the beautiful moments. Wow. Wow. It's almost philosophical.

So some people would call it buffer times in between. But we call it wiggle time.

Wiggle room.

Wiggle wiggle wiggle. Or is it something else? I'm sorry. Actually, you see, we are happy people, we are crazy people, no drugs. It's hard to believe right now when you listen to that episode, but we are having fun, especially with our English.

Now I'm going to be the hero that takes us back to the original thought. And that was that I got married and we are 2 people now. And already it's more complicated to, you know, talk with each other and make sure that you have maybe a time together, or maybe you have an appointment together. You want to see each other. You want to know where the other person is, we want to be informed. So then already it's more complicated than I imagine when you have a child like Justin here in our round, in Runde.

Yeah, round,

Justin, daddy. Yes, then it's getting even more And with my parents, they had 3 of us, the poor people. And I remember we also had to sit down and they were asking us like, what's going on this week with you guys? Let us know so that we can, you know, know if you have a lot of exams in school or if you need to go to sports maybe on that and that day, or if you see a friend here or there. So we also had those weekly talks just to know a little bit of what is

going to happen for you in this week. I think that's a very good thing. And also what you said, the yearly thing to have a bit of an overview and expectation for the year and also be able to say, okay, I really want this to happen this year. And a lot of things won't happen if you don't plan them to happen. And now I talked so much, I will just let some 1 of you tell some thoughts on this matter of planning.

We enjoyed it. So far, very interesting. A lot of insight we gained. Nice. But anyway, you're right. I think the older we get, the mature we get, and when we marry, we do have a lot, we get a lot more responsibilities. We have a lot more on our plate to do. And so it's important to write it down, because if you don't write it down, I think you're more stressed every day, because you have to remember all of it all the time. And you don't want to forget things, important things. And if they are not written

down somewhere, like I said, you will be stressed because you don't want to forget them. And some people, they are busy every day and some people accomplish things actually because they plan.

And it takes much less time when you take the time to plan. It feels in the beginning like, oh now I'm wasting this time to plan, but it's like chopping up a tree. If you never plan where it should fall and how you should chop and where you should chop, it might even fall on your own head. I heard that story before that people just jumped on right in the second. It felt like, oh we miscalculated. Oh well, too bad. And that's the same with our planning. If we don't take the time to plan, I think

somebody said, if you don't take the time to plan, you plan to fail. There you go. For you.

That's a nice quote. Yeah.

Yeah. So, and that's, that's how it is.

Free of charge, by the way.

It doesn't feel that way in the beginning because you're taking time, so to say, doing nothing at the moment to accomplish that task. But when you have planned it, in the end it will take you less time because you're less stressed and you're actually focused on the task itself and plan maybe out the steps, okay, I need to do this, then this can happen, then this can happen, and it will save you a lot of time in

the end. Yeah, because you were able to prepare for it and also you made sure that it's not going to be at midnight the day before the exam in school, for example, where you cannot even concentrate anymore and everything is going so much harder. And also when you plan it, then you make sure that you will do it at all, because I, you said that, because I remember many times when I was studying for school and there was so much to do, and because so much was to do, I didn't plan to do anything because I

was just stressed, like Pastor Sascha said. You know, I felt so busy and busy, but I didn't get done anything. And that's why you need to put it on paper, like he said, and, and write things down and then do the plan like Steven just said, and then you can also achieve things. So I agree heavily that you should write down things and make some kind of plan about it. Even if you don't stick to the plan completely. My dad always taught me that there's like a planning curve and then there's the reality curve and that

1 looks completely different and most of the time You need more time and more resources and stuff, but the point is, if you don't do that planning curve in the beginning, then it might explode completely. And I experienced that with the last holidays and first holidays that we did last year, my wife and I. Tell us the story. Oh, yeah. There were actually some wonderful parts about it, you know, because we didn't have it planned and I said it earlier, sometimes you have wonderful moments in the spontaneous. I could tell of that, but we are talking

about planning, so I can say we spent so much money on it, much more than we should have or wanted to. A lot of accommodations where we slept, we booked them a day before.

How?

It was really a big mess, but we are rich so we don't care. I say that in faith into the future, because right now we are broke, not that bad.

What is going on? What is going on? I don't

know what's happening in this episode.

Yeah, this is crazy.

Story time with Sebastian.

I also don't know what happened. It's quite interesting. But so much about planning curves, you should have 1. Great.

And I think if we don't have anything planned, it will never be able to reach that. For example, by luck or coincidence, you actually reach something. You may even have... You write a good grade in school at the exam that you had, or you'll accomplish something over the year when you do yearly nut planning in this case, and you reach something like looking back, oh great, I reached that goal, but you notice, okay, how did I get there? Can you replicate it or is it just pure coincidence that it actually worked out that way? So it

can be that you can accomplish things, but it will be much faster and much more focused. And you can even replicate that process there and it will not take you that long to get there and get there again and try to get there again every time thinking about it. Okay, What do I have to do? How do I do this? How do I go about this? But you already have the plan set and know, okay, next time it will take me much less time to get to the same spot.

And I think everybody will arrive somewhere and some people arrive there on purpose. That's a big difference.

Yeah, And I think also the results are better if you actually plan and prepare yourself for the different things. If you, I mean, of course, if you get in a few spots with coincidence, probably it could be good, but it could have been a better result. And so I think that's also very important to realize that you can have better results if you actually prepare and plan

different things.

I think if you plan something, you know, this is the step and this, then we will do that. And then this is what we want to achieve in the end. It's a much more conscious process in general. And so once you reflect on it and look back, you will also like automatically spot weak spots and stuff and know how to do it different next time, because you will know, yeah, it worked till there, but then at this point it didn't. So next time you will do it differently. And so, because everything is more conscious, it also

helps to get better at things,

I believe.

And I think God also blesses preparation. Because things that you value or events that you value or are very important to you, you'll plan them. For example, weddings. It's my pet peeve,

I know.

Weddings. They plan like crazy for weddings, people. Not another story time, please. Sebastian is already ready to tell another story. But anyway, You know, a wedding is so important for the couple, especially usually for the ladies, it seems like it's more important than to the men. And they plan like crazy because they want it to be good. And I think also when we do that for worship services, planning our songs, planning our Bible studies, and so on, then God sees that we think it's important to us. And so if we think it's important to us, that

His business is important to us, he will bless it and he will bless us for.

I'm very grateful that our music team is preparing and that we are being blessed by that. Stephen is shaking his head saying, of course we have to basically, but no, I have been to places where they have not been practicing or it sounded like it. I don't know.

Wow. It's only worse when they have practiced and it sounds bad.

Well, we have that too.

Yeah. But if you don't have a time, you know, we say at this time, everyone who will sing, we meet and do that, then it will not work. Because if you try to do it spontaneously, half of the people will say, Oh, I cannot, I have something else. So you have a planned date where it's a fixed time and you do it and then it works. And that just reminded me also if you want to build habits, that's a tip that you get. You should have a fixed time and your time mostly may be placed and

say, okay, then I'm going to do that and then do that sometime regularly and then it will be a habit, hopefully.

And there's 1 little thing that also came to mind when you were talking about preparing for exams so that you don't study in the middle of the night. I'm not talking about now preparing for an exam. I'm talking about you need to know what time you perform best. If you're a morning person, then just get the tough tasks in the morning, get it done. There's a guy called Brian Tracy, he wrote a book and it's called Eat That Frog, which basically means the hardest work and the things that you really don't like so much that you

like to push all the time away from you, is you have to do that first. Which means for myself, I need to do the church website, I guess, tomorrow morning, first thing. But unfortunately, I have to work a secular job.

When do you start? No.

Just a quick note, a quick note. If you are from Mannheim church and you want to read that book, we have it in the library. Oh yeah? Cool. Yes.

Very good.

Very good.

Shameless plug.

Yeah. The man came prepared.

I started reading it as well and then I realized I would have to do those ugly things in the morning and I said, oh.

See for me personally, I'm not a morning type. I work better in the night, but during the week it's not possible so I have to do it always and on the weekends.

But did you realize that as you began your way to organize yourself did you realize that you're more a night person or morning person or how did you realize that?

That was basically very easy for me because it's hard for me to get up in the morning.

Okay so that was that

was the point. Very hard.

Makes sense.

I actually tried for I think I've been doing it a whole month or maybe 2 months every day actually to go exercise in the morning, being in the gym at 06:00 in the morning.

That's pretty cool, yeah.

Because I thought, I need to have a morning routine. So when you go on YouTube, you see everybody that says, everyone that is successful has a morning routine, you have to stick to it, get up at 5, you know, the 5am club and all that stuff. Crazy people, I'm sorry. They're just freaks. Anyway, and so I said, well, I have to do that myself, because then I get it done. So I did it, but every day was just horrible and it did not get better. I thought okay, do it 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4 weeks, maybe

in the fifth week it will become easy. No, it did not become easy. And eventually I stopped.

Okay. And then you just said, I'm a night person. So you, you exercise at night then? Right.

Wow.

You see what

he did? And you are my friend, right?

That was the perfect trap. Oh my goodness. You were…

Sebastian had jokes, so I thought I was…

Jokes on others behalf.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That was messed up.

You know, we are planning another episode. It's called church hurt. So my brother just hurt me. I guess we'll talk about that in this next episode.

Yeah. Okay. Brutus. Yeah. Even you, my son Brutus, know what Caesar said.

I'm sorry.

Okay, well, shall we get 1 more time back to planning tools and like maybe software or something that we actually like to use?

Oh, that's the episode.

Well, what I use is outlook. I love the calendar and the planning possibilities with it because in it you can even take emails that you got and just pull it, pull it? Is that the right word? You pull it, drag it, that's the word. You drag it and then it automatically changes into a task and you can take notes to it, you can insert pictures, you can put deadlines and you can even send it to others to work with them on this. So it helped me a lot to organize, especially at work, it helped me a

lot to organize my steps because there's some tasks that I have to do, some tasks that I have to delegate to others, and then remind myself of it to check after it. Because sometimes I put it away and then I just forgot about it. And the other person, for whatever reason, forgot it as well. And then after like 3 weeks, my boss came to me and asked me, what is that done? And I'm like, is what done? Oh, right. Oh. And then I asked the person like, oh no, I forgot. I'm like,

well, it's not done.

Yeah, exactly. No, it's not done. And so that helps me also to remind myself and also when I delegated things to remind others, hey, did you think about that? And it just gets that off my mind because Otherwise my mind is so cluttered with all kinds of stuff that I forget things. It feels like they just drop off. Something else comes in, then something else has to leave and it just drops out of my mind and then it's forgotten.

Do you also use the app on the phone, Outlook app, or only on the laptop?

I only use it on my laptop to like put in appointments. I use mainly my laptop and my computer at work to use that. And on my phone, I just check the appointments.

But so it synchronizes with your phone.

And that's something I really need, that it's synchronizing over different platforms, because otherwise, or devices in that case, otherwise it would be lost. To put everything in every calendar, that...

No. You wouldn't do that.

No. No way. You do it just

the first week and then you say, well, it's not worth it.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, well, the

thing is, if you have several paper calendars, that's what you have to do. And that's what I'm struggling with also, because we have 1 calendar at our wall in the kitchen, and there we put in quite some things. And obviously, it's not on my phone, what we put there. So that's the first problem. And secondly, I'm considering right now buying also something out of paper for like normal use,

where

I'm using my phone right now, but then I also have to synchronize it and I have a feeling that it will not go as well as the phone does it. Let's just say it very friendly this way.

The problem I just have with paper is I wouldn't look in it anymore. That's just I tried it and I noticed for myself and that's also, I think we talked about that already, that you have to figure out your type. Morning person, evening person, but also are you more a paper, are you a digital person, are you a hybrid? Using actually both and being effective in it, because I know I wouldn't be effective in it. I have paper and I would never look at it. I write it down like, oh great it's in there, delete it.

But on my phone, I always have my phone with me, except for today, I forgot it in the car, but doesn't matter. Usually I have it with me. And so and also the reminders of it, it just comes automatically without me having to look and put, so to say, that effort in again, to open it up and look into it again, because that's just... I noticed for myself that I'm not doing that.

And there's another big advantage when you go digital. It is when you write down all your notes and whatever you need to, reminders and so on, you can use the search function to find things. If you just write it in a booklet or so, then you have to flip the pages and where is it, where is it, where did I write it down? So when you have a digital, you Just type in the word you're looking for or you put some hashtags in it, get some intelligent or smart lists and it's all working for you. And

it makes life a lot easier.

Definitely. You can also put colorings and stuff in the apps. And I like to do that also, because maybe everything that is church-related can be a color. If you have a podcast, blue, there we go. Blue is church-related?

Yeah, that's handy. That's so funny.

Cool. Things you discover at the podcast. Tell me about it. I have to admit though, I'm agreeing with all those advantages of digital. And still for me, it's a different feeling and my brain somehow understands it differently when I see it in front of me on the paper and all at once also, meaning if I have a monthly calendar at least the whole month. And it just gives me like an emotional feeling for it differently than if I see it on my phone and swipe through it. I get the information, but it's still not making that

click so much. I don't know if you have any experience that knows this or also like where you agree that paper actually just...

I agree, because like we said, we use the book. And so we didn't talk about this in this episode, but in the German episode that if you open the book, you see the whole week or depends what kind of book is the whole month. So You have it written down and then you see. So I understand what you're saying that you just see everything in 1 spot because like, as you said, on iPhone or on the tablet to swipe for me, that'd be work. And for me, I'd be swiping too much or I'm not good with

the phone anyway. My wife always laughs at me that I'm an old man on the phone because I can't find apps. I can't find different things. So I swipe and then I realize, oh, I'm in year 2025, But I should be in the year 2040, stuff like that. So I know what you're saying. So you open up a book and here you see on the top corners the year, the month,

the week

and here

you have the whole week, Monday to Sunday and then you have the times even on it. So I understand That's a pretty good thing.

I'm glad I'm not looking like a freak anymore.

No, you're fine. Well, to these 2 maybe, to these 2, but I understand what you're saying. We're freaks together.

But anyway, I also like to use papers. I got a big yearly calendar on my wall just to see the main activities going on, main events. And that helps me when I just look and see all of it, it helps me to plan when do I have to start with preparation for a bigger event. If I only see day by day events, it's not that easy for me to plan. Actually, when I work at home remotely, what I do is I open my calendar app all the time and it's always the week view. I always want

to see the whole week, because sometimes, some tasks I have to just say, well, I won't make it today, I just put it on another day. And so I see it already, where can I put it? And actually my calendar is a living calendar. So the main things, of course, are written in there already, the main events and my week, the way I structure my week is already in there. But sometimes tasks and appointments, I have to just switch around a little bit. And that's why it's always a living calendar that I'm using.

And people like me who are still not using Calendar so much have to keep a lot of things in their mind than always. And it is working still, at least, but not always perfect, definitely. And also, you could make it so much easier for yourself. So everyone who's like me, I would tell you, make it easy on yourself, you know, write it down and you don't have to organize it all in your head and always double check in your head. Do I have time there? If you want to move something like you just said, because you

have to move something always. And it's much easier if you have it in front of you to see can I move it, does it work? It's much less stress on your brain I would say.

And after some time doing that you know how much time you need for certain tasks. And then you get better in planning it. In the beginning, you want to put everything in 1 day. And then you realize when you are on that day actually working, it's way too much. And after a while you learn how many tasks you really realistically actually can work on.

Something else that I just remembered is in our family we had this calendar and it had several columns. So you had on the left column all the dates, and then next to it a column where we would put mom as heading, and next to that dad, and next to it the children, each of them 1 column. And then you can have for different people also within a family something on the wall. And when I knew that something is coming up, I just put it in there. And then you also cannot forget to talk about it in

the family, because sometimes with busy family times that happens, you forget to talk about things. So that's a tip that worked for us very well, for anyone.

While you said that, it's very good, because we were just basically talking about personal management. But what if you're working as a team, either on the job or here on the podcast, there are different softwares and things that we can use and maybe someone, somebody else wants to introduce, maybe we use.

Well what we are using for planning this podcast as well is Trello And it's a fairly easy platform. It's just different columns like Sebastian said. And for example, there's the header planned and work in progress. And even finished. I think that's the most beautiful column we have. So satisfying. When you can just drag it over there and like, done. Yeah, and I think this is also in planning, just a little side note, this is so important to also have that in mind, what you have accomplished. Not only think about what is ahead and I have to

do all this, but also being able to look back and say, hey, I already accomplished all of this. So for example, when we see that episode accomplished, it's like, okay, this is done. We made it. It's out there. People can listen to it. And so Trello is a platform that we use there and it's like a task management software and you can give the task to different people, you can apply dates to it, deadlines to it, and it just helps. We also put our comments and our thoughts to it And so we can just discuss things

easily and you see it all in 1 place instead of having that WhatsApp group there, being on Google Drive here and having this here and not putting it all together somewhere where everybody can look at it and see, okay, this is the process we have and this is where we are at in the task right now.

Yeah. Well, also the most important part is, especially when you're in a team, to say to different tasks, no, or just to give the task to someone else who has the lesser task than you. Because also very important is communication between the team that you can also really plan out and really sit together and plan out for if it's a week a week thing or if it's yearly thing that you really just talk and say, hey, this is too much, I need it or I can't do this this week, I have to do it next week.

So that's also a very important thing to do in a team.

Be able to say no, I can only agree because also the team won't be helped if maybe you say yes, but you don't have time and you won't do it, or it will be bad or something like that. Or you will do it and it will be good, but at the end you have a burnout because you've been doing that always and got too stressed out or something like that. So yeah, that's a good point. I like it.

And being stressed out and having that burnout, this is also something that you could, that you should always put a thought into in your planning to plan your, at least for me that worked, maybe it won't work for you. Maybe you do it automatically. I don't. Is plan free times, plan times where you're just off or plan times. In my case now, plan your time. I plan my time with my wife as well. To not forget about it, to also that we spend time together because otherwise our weeks are so cluttered and so full and we

just don't spend time together. And then we are in bed at night and just look at each other like, well, great day, right?

Yeah. Awesome. I'll see

you all week.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Good night. And then you wake up again, you have all this stuff going on so that's also time blocks that we really put in our calendar so that we actively, you know, intentionally use those times to spend together and also have to have free time and when the rest of your week is planned you can also really use and make good use of that free time because you know, okay, I'm not doing this right now, but I know it's planned for example for Thursday, 07:00, and it will be done there and that's okay and

you can actually focus on your free time and not be so stressed out while you should relax.

Another thing what some people also like to do is, before they go to bed, they plan their next day. Things that they have to do, they write it down, Because that helps them to have a peace of mind and fall asleep. Because I know how it is with myself. If it's not written down and I know I have to do those tasks tomorrow, then it's hard for me to fall asleep because I'm thinking about everything. But If I take some time before I go to bed just to write it down, then I know exactly what... It

won't be lost, it is there, just go to sleep.

Yeah. I really like that how Steven just talked about and this taking time for the couple relationship and also for having a free time, because that's what planning is all about in the end. It's not for its own sake. We don't plan just to plan or it shouldn't be like that. We plan because we want to achieve certain things. We want certain things to happen. We want to have priorities. I just remembered that we didn't read that scripture verse that Pastor picked out and read in the German episode. I really like that, so I'm going to

read it here for us. It's in Luke 14, and the verses 28-30. And there Jesus says, For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? Lest, happily, After he hath laid the foundation and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, saying, This man began to build and was not able to finish." So there Jesus is saying, you know, when you plan to do something, like building it, then you have to also think about it first,

so that it can happen. So the planning is so that something can happen, like so that a tower can be built. And so, of course, it's also another context here, but we can also apply it to this topic of planning very nicely, I think.

And I mean, Jesus, He was a master, well, actually of everything, but in planning as well, because He prepared so much. When you look just in the Old Testament, how he prepared the plan of salvation. And again and again, and little steps, and just everything was put in place to be fulfilled when he then comes in human form. Also, during his time on earth, he planned. He knew, okay, I have 3 years of time. What am I going to do with those 3 years? Just imagine he wouldn't have planned it. Just like, oh, let's just, oh,

let's see, I'll just live in the day. Oh, look, a rabbit, oh, I created him too. He wouldn't have gotten anywhere, but He picked disciples, he trained them, he intentionally put them into situations. For example, the storm or feeding the 5,000. They were just places where he used them already, where he put them in so that they learn and that they are ready then when they are to take over the task. So this is also something we can learn from him when we just look at how he planned every step so good that it actually came

to fruit in the end what he had planned.

So I also think then a prerequisite for planning is also having a vision. Having a vision for yourself, having a vision for your family, for the work of God or whatever you have to do. And God, He had a vision when He came to... And a mission as well when he came to earth. And that's everything, all of his life was steered towards that goal, actually. And if we have the same, then we will plan. And otherwise, if we are not planning, It's not a vision, it is just a dream. There are so many dreamers out

there. And maybe you've heard that there are so many dreamers that dream about writing a book or whatever, and if they are not planning it and stick to the plan, it won't become a reality. It stays a dream somehow, but it's not really a vision. When you see Niemeyer, he had a vision, he had a passion also, but he wasn't just running off, he planned it, he organized it, He made sure that he gets some letters of permission and things like that prior before he left and went to do the job. So planning is important I

think. And this episode is a nice episode. You could say so many things, so much more, but I guess we need to wrap it up somehow.

That's true. It was a lot of fun though. I really enjoyed it. It was great talking to you and just learning about these things, learning how you are going about it and I hope you learned something as well out there and maybe we helped you. I hope we did and I hope it's just a fixed plan in your calendar now to be with us and to just listen to our episodes. We would love to have you more often here, so just put on the notifications and give us a like, give us a comment if you would

like us to talk about some subjects where you say oh this would be interesting to hear them talk about. Maybe also in that fun and light-hearted way sometimes that we're going about things. We hope you like that as well. Just like I said, give us a comment. We would like to have you and we'll see you next time. Plan to be with us every Thursday at 05:00 German time to be with a new episode. Thank you for listening and until then, bye bye.