AI and the Future of Learning: Navigating the Digital Shift with Josh Cavalier and Mark Latimer

Josh welcome to the show thanks so much for being here I hope you had a wonderful New Year and excited to be here with you for the first interview of the Year thank you so much I love it yeah happy 2024 Mark we're already Off to the Races and I feel like things are moving quickly and I'm excited to learn from you and for those that don't know you why don't you give yourself a quick introduction yeah I have been in Learning and Development for 30 years so I got my start in the early 90s doing e-learning development for a boutique e-learning firm here in Charlotte North Carolina after that experience I started my own training business loadstone and was one of the top Adobe authorized training Partners in the United States I had five locations was spinning up education technology within corporations mostly web Centric based implementation of training content and then I wound that down and found myself back in corporate for three years as a learning architect which was a fantastic experience uh got to really see what was currently happening in large organizations it was for A5 billion doll supply chain company uh and I got to work on some very important projects especially like implementation of Microsoft teams during covid and also a lot of transform transformational type projects involving data and analytics and spinning up our our Frontline Sal team on those products and then AI happened and when having been in this space for so long mark it was like one of those instances when I experienced AI for the first time this is a week after chat GPT was released I knew it was different and I dove in head first and got acclimated to prompting and what was happening in the background with the vector database and how all that was working working and I knew that this was going to show up differently and that gener generative AI was going to be a game changer much in the same way that the personal computer or mobile phone makes a radical shift in the way that we consume and create content and so in March of 2023 I went back in full-time doing my own thing in the form of Josh cavaliers. and here we are love the domain yeah I grabb that really quick yeah exactly what's interesting is like years ago I was talking about educational video and I thought that AI was going to show up in the form of vision analysis of educational video like there was a lot of work that was being done at MIT and IBM around Vision like five or six years ago and that was my take on AI that we were going to have these applications that were going to be able to inspect video see exactly what was happening in the video and recreate videos for us that was personalized for us and now taking taking a look at what's happening currently I think that's going to happen but it's all going to be generated from new content or using diffusion models to create that video-based content as opposed to taking original video and reconstituting it man that that may still happen but I have a feeling that there is going to be a massive shift in the quality of generative AI video to where we may not even have to go ahead and record original video to get the same effect yeah we're seeing it with audio and video is usually just a bit behind right that's right yeah right before I took a break here at the end of the year the last post I made on LinkedIn was a trailer for The Fantastic 4 and I had chat GPT go in and write the script which is perfect but I needed a voice I needed a voice over for this dialogue and the current so you created this oh yeah okay yeah maybe you can put it in the link in the show notes I can go give it to you and one of the best sites or or platforms for audio generation currently is 11 Labs I absolutely love platform I have been using it I TR my own voice I use it occasionally I'm also a big fan it's it's incredible but one of the new features that they have is the ability for you to go ahead and cut your own voice or use some other voice and then use a model to go in and uh using the same tone and the same inflection redo that voice so for myself I was like okay well let me go ahead and cut this audio using my own voice and using the own inflection and adding some drama in there but it's my voice I mean it's just okay so then I can go ahead and select the voice of somebody actually sounds like somebody who's gonna be a voice on these trailers and it is absolutely amazing so you can take a look at a listen to this Fantastic 4 video but it just shows you how far we've come in just a year with the ability to go ahead and create movie trailers using 4 second Clips at a time showing movement and getting the emotion that's in there now it's not perfect but you you get these videos from Pika or Runway and it's just okay there's a lot of deficiencies within it but you can get camera movement you can get some motion and that's the worst it's ever going to get so right this time next year in 2025 I can't even I can't even Envision like where it's going to be to the point where individuals who may have not been used to creating video or it was not approachable to them personally either because of the the Gap in Knowledge and Skills required to create video or they just there's barriers as far as they didn't have the right equipment or tools or anything like that all that's going to be washed away to the point where if you have a vision or you have an idea or a story you going to be able to visualize that and put that out there and do all kinds of different things from an educational standpoint now on the flip side we're going into an election year and we're going to have to be mindful that of deep fakes and other ways that these Technologies could be used so it's going to be just a wild year both from advancements in regards to education and what we're going to be seeing in regards to truth and journalism and content that's actually put out there in the wild yeah it's it's definitely a wild west of tools and how you connect them and do you have the right chat stack how is all how are all your systems connected talking a little bit more about this video you said you used 4 second Clips I know there's a few different tools that you probably use to stitch it all together what what are some of your favorites for for video movement yeah so I have been using Runway gen two with the motion brush and  this allows you to get some refinements in regards to what is stationary or what is moving within the frame you can also prompt and there are certain other techniques that you can use to get more specific type movement I think we're going to see a maturation level occur within those models that are going to allow us to uh reduce the amount of errors that are occurring like in the generation and more realism happening with whatever content that you have within the frame so Runway is like my favorite right now Pika uh the first version it it does well but I think there's some leaders that are out there now all of my Runway type content begins with mid Journey six so I'm doing photo realistic images and then taking those photos bringing them into Runway and then generating the 4 seconds now you can go beyond 4 seconds but you get a degradation in quality that occurs the farther out that you get with the um generation of the video yeah it's I would love to explore Runway more it's not one of the tools that I've really dug into so I appreciate the nudge to to experiment when it comes to e-learning there's a lot of different software out there what have you learned over the years yeah so when thinking about content creation and again I'm just going to keep it to e-learning because there's all kinds of different types of media that you can use for educational content everything is simple as like a a job aid that's just texted images to interactive games there's augmented reality virtual reality I'm just going to just focus in on e-learning for a second because I think it's with generative AI it's the most attainable platform or way of producing content that the masses will be able to gravitate towards before we get into these Advanced media types but everything comes down to Media uh composition or putting media together think about like PowerPoint PowerPoint allows you to go in and take images audio video text and put it together into a presentation so when we talk about e-learning now we get into interactivity to where there can be simple quizzes or even you know clickable objects and you're interacting with the environment to get an immersive experience to hopefully transfer knowledge or skills or change behaviors along the way that being said one thing I see happening and this is with the large players in the e-learning space that have tools to create e-learning content this would be Adobe and articulate is that they're integrating generative AI content creation within the application so how does that show up well Mark let's say that you have do you have any hobbies I like to play I like to play the guitar all right so let's say we want to go a and create a course on how to play a guitar maybe just an intro and playing the guitar perfect you'll be able to go into um Adobe Captivate which is one of their eer and development tools and I saw a demonstration of this in October so this is not like just made up I mean I saw the demo of it live and this is a function that they're working on currently I don't know when they're going to release this but I can see the writing on the wall as far as where things are headed so let's say we want to do a basic course on playing guitar I can go in and prompt the application to create an outline all right so good we get a prompt and then we're using either chat GP or GPT 4 or 35 or some other model in the background gives me an outline of learning basic chords or reading music or whatever the case may be I can assess that hey this looks great now go ahead and generate the course for me and it will go in and take each one of those Topics in the course outline and generate content for each slide in addition to that it will create media and I suspect eventually create interaction types I didn't see interaction types I did see images and I did see text video makes sense but here's a really cool thing with the Adobe platform they have access to Adobe Firefly which automatically would you can create images from that right so it takes the topic or the title of that particular SL leverages it for the media that's required on that and then it automatically lays everything out and before my eyes I saw this course being created automatically and you look at that and go whoa that looks pretty good as it is I probably just need about another 10 or 20% to go in and tweak this thing and then we can call it done and so I think that's where we're we're getting to a point to where we're going to see massive e-learning or learning based content automation occurring but of course there's a human element to where the AI is only going to get you so far and you need to of course validate the information with the subject matter expert you'll need to go in and make sure that the content flows properly so there's all that time right there now it's quite possible that these applications could negatively impact the way that you develop because if people lean on them too hard and they don't know their craft they could create really horrible learning experiences to where they say  oh well it's done I'm going to go and check that box and they release some type of learning content without validating the information which could be really detrimental a lot of good points and I haven't seen that Captivate demo but I've seen what chat GPT can do I've it's kind of been a big sandbox for me but  I've used it as a tool to help me learn by having it quiz me and do what I can inside it so connecting the dots a company like Adobe certainly has the capabilities across the board to to come up with something that's really in service to rapidly creating e-learning and to your point it's a idea I've heard before of this like 595 rule where you're coming in for that first 5% and setting it in the right direction and then you're coming in for that last 5% and making sure that it did as you requested and maybe it's more 8020 but there's definitely going to be some incredible advances for automating courses and having experts really focus on other aspects of the development yeah which of the areas after you kind of get the course going do you enjoy most in terms of your adding your polish and touch on the course yeah I think it comes down to just evaluating thinking about your audience and the personalization that needs to go in there because if there's an Automation and they don't really nail who the audience is that's really where you make it shine is by going in and understanding what are the motivations what are the behaviors of your current audience and then infusing the content that will speak to them right so that's the Polish that I like to put on there and I have a feeling that because of um the current quality that's out there right now in regards to automation that's what we're going to need we're going to need that F like you said the final 5% for sure now what's interesting is if we play this out and let's say that we get to a point where it recognizes who the audience members are and it just Nails it like it just goes in and it creates just amazing content at that point now we're getting into autonomous agents that are creating this information to the point where we can have performance issue that's been identified out into the field let's say that it's Frontline sales and there's a new product that's going to drop next week and we want our Frontline sales team to get after it and approach our customers uh on Monday well the autonomous agent can go in take a look at the audience profiles the Frontline sales can understand what the content is and then generate individual courses or learning content for each salesperson that they consume on Monday morning right yeah so we play all this out at that point I'm really orchestrating the content I'm not necessarily creating the content now obviously that content needs to be evaluated or looked at uh by a human before it rolls out we could even get to a point where it gets so good that the error rate of that content is less than 0.1% once that content is consume though we have to take a look at the analytics so if I'm if my is how many additional sales of that product did we make for that week by Friday how many how many of my Frontline sales team completed the training what did they do with the end quiz what were their results there how many times did they go ahead and the CRM system contact a customer on this new product what was their total sales of the new product by the end of the week right so we have all of these analytics this data that we need to take a look at from that effort eventually that will be automated and so really it's a matter of orchestrating and looking at dashboards and checking out performance results and seeing exactly did we hit the mark with the the AI generated content very interesting a highlevel overview of inputs and outputs and trying to as you say orchestrate the entire thing like a symphony right exactly yeah super cool what what are the predictions do you have for for the space as far as things you've seen things you're excited about yeah one of the interesting things that I bumped into during the conference season in the fall here Q4 we talk about gener of AI it falls in the buckets of text audio video images code but one item that is very rarely talked about is biometric data right so information about what's happening to a human over time and getting that information and using it to generate additional content or results or reports or anything like that and the people I was talking to do Department of Defense work and so here's an example if somebody is learning how to use a weapon or fire a gun or something like that they can put biometric information or equipment on them to understand what's going on with their heart rates and how they're reacting to the situation now that type of Technology could also be used in the workplace in safety situations so if we are putting somebody through a simulation we can go ahead and get biometric information as far as like where were they looking what was their heart rate how fast did they make that decision physically in that space and I have a feeling that area is  going to be massive it's going to be a huge area of expansion when it comes to generative AI just as an input type uh again we don't get a lot of people talking about it but the technology is out there I think we're just waiting for it to hit coming out of the defense or using for the government down to business it's it is something that doesn't get talked about lot in a business context where do you see the inputs coming for measuring this kind of stuff we all have smart watches what comes to mind with how we're tracking some of these more unusual business metrics yeah I mean it could be watches it could be Rings it could also be glasses doing eye tracking and checking out what's happening with pupil dilation here's an interesting one so when doing all that video Work years ago one of the author I researched was Daniel Conan thinking fast and slow it's a great book and in the first half of the book Conan goes in and talks about the research that he did in regards to difficult solving difficult math problems and so when you give somebody an easy problem and you test them or tax them when it's attainable like it's an easy problem and they're engaged the pupil begins to open up right but as soon as you give somebody a difficult problem like 47 time 23 right if you try to think that in your head there's a certain point where the body physically responds and the pupil will shut right and immediately the book conoman talks about how he would call into the room where these they're doing these math problems and say to to the test subjects hey you just gave up and they're like how did you know I just gave up thinking about that problem because you physically just change people just shut and so I think and the same thing with willpower or calorie burn if we have very difficult tasks ahead of us or um these problems to where we have to do deep work and it makes your head hurt right that's calorie burn and if you are not fueling your body properly you may have a difficult time doing those tasks that day whereas if you feel your body properly you may have an easier day in front of you and depending upon the task that you have scheduled like this podcast I there's a different level that I need to be for this podcast than if I'm doing emails so we could have ai take a look at your schedule and go well based upon your diet this is the diet I recommend for you for the next day's work I love that the idea of having your calendar controlled or at least suggested based on energy levels that's really cool yeah it goes with sleep patterns too I mean I do my best work is like from 6:00 am to 9:00 am and so when I'm doing my writing when I'm doing my deep work I do that and then I do a different type of work like emails and things like that after 10: and I'm telling you like after 3 o'clock I'm just like I'm toast and I could take a break and then and pick up and do some other types of work in the evening but that deep best work uh is in the morning time for me and everybody has a different schedule some people jam it midnight 1 1 am i' I'm already asleep four hours by then so I'm on a I'm on a pretty similar schedule to you and I tend to agree that at least for me those morning hours are 10 times more productive than after 3:00 I similar got to do some exercise or something at that point because the energy levels are just already p put in quite a long day and pick it up a little later for whatever else needs to be done but yes bringing that morning energy to a podcast is is always great yeah so it should be interesting to see what happens with the biometric data one other thing one other thing that I see is issues with copyright and how copyright is going to play out we just saw New York Times Sue Microsoft and open AI about using all the New York Times articles for training data and those models and it's going to be interesting to see where the courts land on these issues and if there's going to be any type of shift to accommodate AI within the copyright law not just here in the States but in Europe other places and so that's G to have a huge impact on how we use AI is how the courts determine these lawsuits and I think a lot of that's going to shake out in 2024 yeah it's it's brand new right this is uh this is the news and it's going to set precedence for a lot to come so I know those kinds of decisions don't happen very quickly but likely before the end of the year we'll see we'll see what happens I guess for now the the wild west will continue and people will use whatever data they can get their hands on to train their models yeah yeah I think it's going to be fascinating as we see the progress of generative AI continued to EXP itially just accelerate  meanwhile we still have old copyright laws and even if there's new judgments you could still have technology accelerate past those judgments to where we're still in the same situation so hopefully if there's any kind of New Perspectives or new laws around copyright it's in consideration of future technology or what may  potentially happen when we have a completely AI generated movie Let's say put out by a studio like who owns the rights to that what is the copyright of that is it copyrightable and I think that's one of the things that's actually holding back advertising and marketing uh and entertainment around these areas is what happens if I put information or put some type of media out there that's fully AI generated but I can't copyright it that's a problem that's like limiting what potentially could be uh put out there from entertainment or even training an education standpoint I think it's going to be this was it modified okay that's how I feel it's going to shake out is did you modify it and even if it's changing a filter you have to modify it in some way then you can put your name on it that's right but because everyone's going to use it in some way there there won't be a book that won't have some part of AI that gets written anymore that's my belief so we're GNA assume everyone's using AI for everything to do everything so but we still want to take some ownership right at some point it's cool to say this was made with AI and then other times it's just implied So the faster we get to the implied everything's AI whether I'm actually here talking to you or not I'm G to take I'm going to take ownership over this likeness of me showing up using my inputs correct to to get to this end result and then if my eye starts twitching well that's on me for not really managing by Tech to support that that brand I'm trying to put out but it's it's totally wild blessed and I think from an artistic perspective because I'm a musician I've started to learn more about these really interesting music tools sun. have you heard of that one I have yes super interesting and I'm trying to understand okay how do you take one AI tool like that for those listeners who don't know it it's very cool you can prompt input and get songs that are people singing full it's amazing and then there's another one that I found Called Moses or Moises m o i s s Moises Ai and this one can take any song input and it breaks down the layers of the music so you can isolate vocals you can isolate drums Guitar and then for learning you can slow the song down and just focus on the guitar riff if you wanted wow so when you combine sunno that gives you original new music with something like Moises that you can break down the layers you can can start to do covers of AI generated music that is original and have a lot of fun kind of  back and forth connecting these tools because isolated they're all doing something really special or unique or they wouldn't exist very long right so this I feel companies like zapier and these connective tissue companies are like right perfectly positioned for how do I make Chachi PT work with everything right uh what's been your experience with with chat GPT and I know you're kind of early user and it's gone through a couple different waves tell me what your experience has been yeah I think with chat GPT it was really a matter of understanding how to prompt and getting into the nuances of how gp4 works when you have these  research papers that give indication if you are kind to the large language model or give it encouragement it gives you better results which is it's fascinating and we're still learning about how to interact with these platforms to get the best possible information back and I have a feeling that as we continue to go into multimodal Beyond text like we now have Dolly integration in with chat GPT we have yet to even do audio and video and biometric information into the GPT platform so there's a lot of upside just with that model or how they're hooking up other models I know that with Google Gemini it is truly multimodal that it is a it's a single model that can do all forms of media sorry about that that was my dog that's okay so yeah it's going to be wild to see where things go with these big or large closed models and how open source or open models are going to be handled yeah I've I haven't experienced much use of of Gemini yet but looks very exciting what's been your have you found any interesting use cases with some of the experiments you've run there well when these new models come out I have to choose my battles right because there's so so much movement there's so much happening and in trying to wrap my arms around what it means to create educational content or content that's to increase human performance I I have to keep my eye on not just text but what's happening with images and mid journey and Leonardo and all these other tools that are out there for doing audio and video and so on now when a new model like Gemini comes out I am going to go ahead and test it it so I do have control statements or control questions that I use to verify and check and see because this giving back a really good response and so what I noticed with and this is through Bard because they Google updated Bard to give you access to Gemini professional that was just okay like it was a little bit (31:18) better than GPT 35 but it wasn't as good as four at least in my experience with my control statements now can that improve over time of course it can and so we need to be nimble and one of the things that I've been seeing with at least with my my corporate customers is that the associates are getting access to AI but  it's through the protections and security of it right and so it it's interesting because in some instances those customers are able to use models but they don't know what those models are like it will give them access they can go ahead and prompt even generate images but they don't know what models are being used in other instances you  could actually hit a drop down and choose which model you want to use and then prompt against that so yeah it's it's interesting to see the difference between what's occurring within companies that are putting up these um Security Options versus going out and getting access to the latest models and enhancing your craft or becoming a  better version of yourself with the latest and greatest that's out there in the marketplace you think security is a bit of a hindrance for some companies that would like to move quickly but are at the mercy of slow rollouts yeah totally there are some Industries banking Finance insurance medical or health those Securities that they need to be at a certain level and unfortunately that is going to put barriers in for individuals who really want to ramp up how they use AI they're really only going to be able to use what has been tested and accepted within their whole entire ecosystem which you know who knows what that's going to look like if it shows up at all  because there are some companies like no no AI I think that'll change over time once there's they work with their vendors on these secure platforms but yeah it it's going to vary out there in the market Marketplace again you're going to have this massive acceleration happening in the out there in regards to the quality of generative  AI but how fast are companies going to respond they may give you access to certain models but then all of a sudden there's a shift in the market place and let's say that Google leaped um GPT 4 but how long before you have access to that model behind the corporate firewall right so it's going to be interesting to see how all this plays out and how companies respond and also as an individual in your own profession and what you're trying to do with your career how much work are you going to be doing outside of that corporate governance and working with the latest and the greatest models that are out there yeah that's that's where I see if people can't use it they're going to find a way it's just oh yeah it's imagine not being able to use Google at work years AG right you're you're on Internet Explorer and if you got a phone you're using Chrome or something or that's correct yep so people find a way and if the poll is strong enough and I think with these AI tools especially as a basic a chat GPT Pro or something can be so powerful for productivity that if someone's using it personally they're going to be asking the questions and trying to get that integrated somehow at work and if you look at chat chp's Enterprise level there are a ton of companies that they've integrated some way so they're definitely alleviating a lot of the SEC uh concerns but there are certain industries that are going to have higher greater greater levels of security right like you talked about Banking and things like that that you got to be careful but for the for the solopreneurs these businesses that are Nimble there's not these security things I feel the biggest challenge is not having enough time to both distill everything and then take action so being very particular about which tools you're going to focus on that you think will be here what is your Tech stack and what are you committed to learning about right because it's this is a like never before we're constantly learning what are some strategies you have to to stay up on on some of these the latest and greatest yeah I mean there there are like a lot of thought leaders that are out there that are taking the time and doing some evaluations and I try to keep my eyes and ears open to what's happening on social media on X on LinkedIn um Tik Tock and typically like the cream Rises to the top like you're going to actually see a lot of dots connected when there there's a large amount of people trying to use the same tool to understand new features new functions how does it compare in the marketplace and as long as you're in this constant state of learning and understanding what is the best tool to create text and audio and video usually you get alignment as far as the top three tools within each of those areas and then within those top three tools there's usually leap frogging that's occurring between them and that's usually where I play well I go outside of that occasionally but I really don't have the bandwidth for that I'm trying to understand how workflows are modified and adjusted within Human Performance just within these areas so I like to go deep in the tools and try to build Mastery around them as opposed to knowing just a little bit about each tool now if you go to a site like futur tools. that lists all the AI tools that are out there in the marketplace you're going to find over three ,000 tools like how do you even begin to even if you sort by just video based tools how do you even begin to start to analyze hey is one better than another at a certain type of technique now if you were doing a certain function let's say that like for this podcast like the edit of the video edit there are specific plugins or AI tools that will look at who's speaking and do the automatic camera change edit over time that's a I mean if that's what you're doing day in and day out is editing podcasts that's an awesome tool and that's something that you're going to lean on heavy but if I'm just a casual video editor I'm going to go ahead and definitely pick my battles when it comes to taking the time to learn about an AI based video editing tool and it's whatever the marketplace is showing is you know the most popular one I think that's what we're going to see as we move forward yeah the your analogy of the cream RIS at the top I think is fairly AP every time you're listening to different people if the same tools come keep coming up then time to investigate that's right Y and if you find that after a bit of use you got to sign up for it and it becomes something that you regularly revisit now you can figure out how you can maybe train on that a great way to consistently up level is to teach what you're learning about so I'm exploring notion notion Ai and super cool have you given it a try yeah I use notion for my prompt  databases nice so I have been using notion I but I have not been using it for the AI yet and I know it's there but everything I I use it for is is more of a database like functionality as opposed to a Content generation functionality at this point now the one what's interesting is that like when I evalue tools especially that are aib based it needs to be such an advantage when it comes to workflow automation that it has to like massively increase my productivity for me to shift to a new tool here's an example there's one tool called cast magic. cast magic. allows you to take an video or an audio transcript and get that into closed caption so it'll go Ahad and create the transcript from the media it'll generate closed captions which by itself is great and uses AI to do those closed captions you can go in you can tweak the Clos captions and correct them whatnot but it's the next part or next functionality that really takes this tool over the top based upon the transcript it will go in and provide automations through AI using gp4 in the background to create additional output types from the episode so if you wanted to go ahead and create a newsletter you want to go ahead and make a quiz you wanted to go ahead and do an overview of the session cast magic in the background will generate all those uh outputs for you automatically that's cool see I mean that that's where it's like whoa that's 1 plus one equals 3 not only you giving me the transcript and the Clos caption file that I can download but you're also taking the transcript and transforming it into these other forms of media that I can then leverage through social media or other platforms and that's what I love is that we're starting to see these maturations in workflows and new tools are going to come out and I think that's the reason why you have to keep your eye on the horizon as far as these tools and  when people are talking about them because you're going to have a vendor or company realize hey we could seriously impact the creation of X or building productivity if we Mash these functions together some with human output or human created which is what we're doing right now we're recording a podcast but then we add all these automations after the fact to speed production time yeah it's when you think about it like building blocks and with this malleable connective tissue that even if they don't normally fit together well we can make them work right can create these really interesting outputs like this cast magic could then plug into something else to so the trigger whatever that trigger is can be a simple button click but it can create so much that this is where I feel like AI is really the art of intelligence and how you glue that together and use it because the tools are all the tools it's like I was talking to someone when use chat GPT it's a completely unique experience to you to anyone else because of everything you bring to it your way of processing information your way of thinking about things your prompt construct right how nice you are wherever we're talking about that being nice to chat GPT so all of these things are completely unique and unlike uh  classic search you kind of need a bit of an owner's manual to really use it like an expert right and it's not always obvious you can ask it nothing at least in my experience right now performs just Brute Force using it and trial and error like most of the people that have been using it for the last year have thousands of prompts behind them right that are know what's going on and that's only from usage and learning in combination but if you've only used it a couple times the easiest way you can really acceler is to just use it a lot more for everything I was I keep getting surprised at what I can do because I  throw things at it combining a PDF not something I would ever think chat PT would even care to do but sure here's a downloadable and it's oh well all of those PDF tools that I would go to the website and kind of do some little editing chbt can do so you kind of in a way it kind of brings in tools right it's new capability can now do something that maybe I don't need that other tool for anymore anyways I get a little excited about this kind of stuff what what are you reading are there books that that you are digging into right now or that you've read and you would like to share yeah so let's see here yeah this one here data and analytics from Megan Torrance this is fantastic when it comes to learning analytics or data you have to go ahead and analyze to create educational based outputs and then from those the analytics once those you know training experiences happen that's one I'm reading currently and  then I have another one that's a good one Julie Duren this is talk to the elephant and deals with behavior science and education learning so those are the two that I'm I'm currently plowing through right now that's great I I love book recommendations so I appreciate that it's one of my one of my favorite parts of the the show for those who'd like to learn more about you find I know you've got a few different courses and you work with organizations of different sizes can you share some of your your contact information for people to stay in touch yeah you can either find me at Josh cavaliers. or Josh cav. it goes to the same location and I currently have a chat GPT master class for Learning and Development professionals it's asynchronous so you can take it at your own pace I also do Consulting webinars and workshops and right before we ended 2023 I did two back-to-back workshops so those seem to be very popular so if you have a team and you're looking to spend them up on gener of AI and what how that shows up then I have a workshop for that well Josh this has been so much fun I've enjoyed learning from you and I know that anyone listening or watching is getting a ton of value from the insights you've shared so I appreciate you have an incredible New Year's and may you and your family enjoy and yeah I can't wait to the next time we do this and how many things can change right right exactly well I appreciate it Mark thanks for having me on okay Happy New Year and we'll talk soon all right take care cheers [Music] grateful AI