#19 "Navigating Teen Sexual Health: Expert Insights" with Dr. Saloni Surah *trigger warning for content*

saloni surah: Yes, I mean I think teens are such a wonderful group and I haven't been working lately because of the reasons I miss interacting with I miss the fun and the SAS and I was just mentioning that I did this lovely podcast with these two gorgeous teenagers from Canada and Rose tinted glasses most of the ceiling and that's just wonderful and I always miss it and I had a coach to whole family and I really enjoyed the teenager. It was a lot of fun. So it's nice to Interact and mix them. it's such a wonderful age, isn't it? Because it's kind of that transition period of and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: he

saloni surah: what are they going to do? And what's the possibility in the potential for them?

Cheryl Pankhurst: Absolutely, and I spent 28 years with teenagers and I say all the time. I think I'd rather spend more time with them than most adults. I hear you. I find that there's not that filter when you're working with a teenager and it's as long as they feel that Mutual connection then. there's no filters there. There's just a great conversation and I love learning from them. So.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Let's talk about I wanted to really dive into the topic of sexual health and I notice I involve myself in a lot of groups parents and coaching teams and there's so many conversations about sexual health how much to divulge to your teenager how much you don't divulge where do they get their information from and all of the things so, my first question I guess is parents find it. I'm sure very challenging to talk about sexual health. I know years ago. It was go upstairs in the bedroom at Story Time and say this part nobody touches anything and you're good to go but now is obviously very different especially with the internet and there's so much more information whether it be valid or invalid so

00:05:00

saloni surah: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: Approach these conversations with their teens. How do we start and what age do we start talking about? Even the bare minimum of what they need to know for that age?

saloni surah: So I think it has to be So each person is individual, setting it as a rule of you've got to do when they're five or ten or fifteen really, you've got to tailor it and I don't think there's a right or wrong to it and I think one of the things to start with this it's okay to say look.

saloni surah: I'm finding this hard and I don't know how to start this conversation with you. And I know I should and I'm sorry if it's icky or asking them if there's somebody else they would prefer to talk to or do you know what I mean? So I think Honesty goes a long way with gosh.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

saloni surah: I'm finding this really nervous. And I know I should or all of that stuff but because I think that just what if we're all vulnerable open or honest, it breaks down barriers one of the things that I used to find and when we had HIV patients that transitioned from the Pediatric service Adult Services teenagers, it was always challenging for them and I never presumed another judge. So I would just presume that anyone that came into me with sexually So I never said are you sexy active? I just say when we last section or when did you help us have any sexual activity?

saloni surah: And for me that just worked because there was no assumption and if they said yes whenever or no then that was fine predominantly the had been but I suppose I'm also somebody who's used to talking about it and certainly the first time when I started working this field of medicine, it was challenging it took a bit of getting used to and some people just aren't fit for it. And I think that's okay as long as you probably get them to the right place and it depends on where the right place is or who the right people are and there's no one size fits all that's what I always say about medicine. What suits me and fits me. Is it more suits you it isn't what suits my children isn't what suits your children everyone's different.

Cheryl Pankhurst: and knowing that if we don't have some control over where their information is coming from they are getting the information.

saloni surah: Yes, yes.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And so whether it's from their friends or online they're getting that information.

saloni surah: Mm-hmm

Cheryl Pankhurst: So I'm wondering. if you you're 14 year old comes to you I'm not gonna say comes to you you see on their phone.

saloni surah: Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: You see a message you recognize that they are sexually active. Now what?

saloni surah: So it's how you approach it, isn't it? So I think if you're non-judgmental and it's the tone and the manner and how you speak to them because you do want to talk to them and you do want to make sure that they're being safe from STI point of view and from pregnancy point of view and that it's consensual, because that's a big thing not just for teens but adults as well, unfortunately and with children that I've seen obviously there are clinics everywhere. So one of the things is, you could take them down to a clinic and a lot of those clinics will have and certainly in UK and Ireland. We have kind of Health visitors or counselors and they do more of the educational psychological support inside and most of The Young Person's clinics.

saloni surah: Have much more of the counseling So there are places that you can go even if you don't that they are sex reactive where you can go and they can go and talk people and be educated now. I'm sure obviously in the US there's similar such Services, so it varies from area to area but usually there are young clinics for younger people special because for younger people often that have contraception that will have more of the counseling and the safeguarding and that stuff in place and many parents. Brought children then it may be one maybe they come with a friend that many younger adults or teens have gone in with parents to those clinics that I've seen over the years.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mm- so talking about HIV which honestly when I started connecting with you and then reading your bio, I have not heard that. in so long I just feel like it's something that went in a box. That was a big thing in the 80s and it went how prevalent is it now and what do we need to be talking to our teens about that sort of thing?

saloni surah: So, I mean it's now a chronic to see so we're down to one tablet once a day in injectables things have changed phenomenally over the last few years and ever weasel carrot stick a bit like diabetes and it's essentially normal lifespan, but obviously prevention is better than cure. There are preventative that therapies out there. So kind of parts of Africa in many have sex with the men's that they do give preventative HIV meds for individuals. It's called preposure for laxious to prevent, HIV Transmission in the higher risk groups.

00:10:00

saloni surah: But it's not just about sex. we see in intangers a lot more, sterile juice and injection of that and hepatitis C risks, because there's a lot of young Lads it's all about the gym and looking ripped and the proteins and stuff. So, we would have seen a lot of younger Lads, taking steroids and certainly, I think about my kind of flatmates kind of five ten years ago. Some of them were very clearly on steroid from the behavioral changes in the moods and the Not to further eating and all of that. So there's also that aspect. So, it's a chronic stable disease, but prevention is better than cure and there is prevention out there. So it's important I think to talk, and obviously it's great. Certainly, I remember growing up and those terrible days and the terrible adverts that we used to have on the TV that were.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

saloni surah: Cheryl think another way to put it and that has left to stay in a lot of us of different age groups of that and I know people who just have never tested even though they're not high risk, I've certainly tested over the years because I'm a doctor working this field but many of my friends from Medical School testers, they were just like I haven't been safe for I have or it's just a good thing to do. I mean a new relationship and I want to know where I am. So I think going and getting tested

saloni surah: Regularly is a good thing to a lot of these infections can be present with no symptoms, especially in women. So it's a good thing to do at beginning of relationship or once a year or depending on your level of sexual activity. it's nice to know that everything's all clear and the tests of very non-invasive for a lot of them you could do the swabs yourself in clinics and blood tests. It can be quite quick in and out.

Cheryl Pankhurst: That's good to know and yes, it was so shocking to me to actually just read about it because I thought it's been so long since and that's the unawareness for me. So if I had a teenager now, would I be even talking about I might not have even thought about it. or STDs or All the things that come around with, the risks of sexual activity. and our kids t know. I feel like they are.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Maybe not understanding. What? consent really is

saloni surah: So this is the other things you don't want to scare them because ultimately what we want for children and teens is to have healthy sexual enjoyable relationships that are consensual that are enjoyable because it's in a really important part of life. So certainly for me I don't want to label us something dirty or disgusting it's a Really important part of life. It's something that can be incredibly enjoyable. But we want people to be safe. We want people to be a consensual and I think one of those things is consensual can be challenging at any age, but especially when you're a teenager, so we always used to be caught, anxious or cautious if somebody came in there's a big discrepancy in age like five years or so, especially if they were younger. There are inequalities in all relationships. So, the last time I was working in London, they were estimated like domestic violence as a one and three one four women.

saloni surah: certainly in you could also say it quite prevalent in who have sex with other man some of those relationships. And we have big cohort of men who were hearing impaired and also sex act of other man, and you also wondered how they were able to negotiate especially what was often scenes where there was a lot of music and how you negotiated that so I think It's something that needs to be discussed. And again, I'm not sure there's a particular wrong or right way and it really depends on the individual but I suppose there's no harm in getting them down to clinics and getting them into service and used to that. But it's also how we talk about healthy relationships and enjoyable relationships that are pleasurable for this safe and then a consensual

Cheryl Pankhurst: how do we have the conversations with our kids too where you can say? You can change your consent at any point in time.

saloni surah: close Of course, I mean so I worked as a sexual assault examiner for a while as well. And I also know I have a many of that older female age group. Their first experiences were non-consensual, there's a lot of trauma in that and how that formed often through a lot of these women that relationships moving forward in that there was almost relationships had this element of it non-being consensual moving forward because that was their first experience and that kind of formed it.

00:15:00

saloni surah: I think it's talking so, I'm not a psychologist and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: me

saloni surah: I'm not a counselor, certainly it's something I will talk about. And we are much more aware of this now consent. So I can't remember whether you've seen it and it might just be a UK thing. There was a big thing about tea and pouring milk into somebody's tea this big advert for kids. I think teenagers about you wouldn't just pour your milk into somebody's tea with that asking them and how that was used as an energy, but actually it's a really good one because you wouldn't just walk up to something going right just before my milk and your tea, but you're totally right with that consent can change at any point.

saloni surah: I think it's challenging for boys too. I know a lot of boys can be very like, my goodness, you're very clear. Are you sure because that, can I have it and don't move up we've all heard those terrible stories of universities some of those, instance that have not being consensual. and having looked after a lot of women certainly in services or friends who have had non-consensual relationships that whole speaking up if it was non-consensual and the being judged that can often go along with it, especially the court service and I get that because one of the things I didn't want as being into forensic Samuel was that going to court and being, examined, that's scared me so I can't imagine how If you experience how it must be like

Cheryl Pankhurst: and I know it feels like we kind of naturally go down to the female. Wrote about but we need to have these conversations with our sons.

saloni surah: Absolutely. So there was a big thing when I was last in London, and also I'm traveling around Cambodia and they were saying, obviously there's a massive sex industry in Cambodia with younger girls and sex tourism and pedophilia sectorism and how they had forgotten about the boys and the boys were being brought up to hotel rooms and then this kind of thing and though, there's a big instance of kind of Grooming of younger boys or teens as well by older women.

saloni surah: So yes, I would have It just needs to talk a more dialogue. I think unfortunately a lot of the relationships that we see on TV and all this are not healthy not consensual and often a devoid of feelings and emotions. There's this big portion. It used to make me sad of let's just give it away doesn't really matter be sexually active in a rush to be there and experience and maybe you're not ready.

saloni surah: and also that, wanting to be by somebody is more important and I know when I was a teenager, I just wanted a bit of attention to be like, I just didn't think I was good enough and there's so much was, also now with phones and social media of just wanting to looking the same having that and I think it's a lot of pressure on them, it's challenging to not conform to that.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah, I'm thinking about kids, doing their s** on the phone. And does that actually now convey the message of consent?

saloni surah: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: When you're in person and How do we give our kids the words to say? No, it doesn't matter what I said before. It doesn't matter what I said 30 seconds ago doesn't matter what I'm saying, right? No is no and how do we give them those skills?

saloni surah: Again, I think its talking. I mean, I have this conversation. I've got two children under five about obviously you want them to listen to adults. But also, I want them to question adults. I don't want to just be like, they're a teacher they can do it they want okay,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yes.

saloni surah: so, you don't have to do something if it doesn't feel right and if something's wrong in the nursery or people are crying or the staff are crying then I need you to tell me what I mean? So I think it's conversations that we need to be having of, okay.

saloni surah: Your child is going to be sexually active at some point at some point. You're going to need to have those conversations the sooner the better practicing or if you feel that you're not able Outsourcing it going to services but also, and I don't know because I haven't run those clinics any and for a while but finding online but having those conversations if is important you can always say no you can always change your mind. you have a voice and what You won't matters. I think it's the more you keep on saying and conveying it that you deserve the best I think little we are told that we are good enough and we deserve the best and we can say no to things and we don't need to put up with things and that's through truth throughout the board. I know certainly my teens my 20s and my 30s. I didn't think I was good enough I didn't deserve and

00:20:00

saloni surah: and I think I look good enough and I think my body was good enough and that's something we all I think generally go through so I just think talking is so important and we don't do enough of that. maybe things are changing but That wasn't that what I grew up with and it wasn't a lot of people I know grew up with.

Cheryl Pankhurst: yeah. No, I did not grow up with any conversation I grew up with. I think maybe two months before I got married. My mom said we talk about

Cheryl Pankhurst: that was literally the only conversation I had so Parents do…

saloni surah: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: what they can with what they know. This is not a slam but also there was no cell phones. There was no internet.

saloni surah: Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: We weren't exploring with p***. We were that sort of thing and so Actually, let's talk about that. Let's talk about

Cheryl Pankhurst: What are we saying to that because Those are some messages.

saloni surah: They are so we used to have you young boys coming in thinking that all women were shaved, and that, all women wanted to anal or threesomes and it's not real life. it sex is messy people have her Things don't work. but it is a part of life now. And again when I was growing up there were page three magazines, it's changed a lot in a short space of time. Again, I think it's talking about it,

saloni surah: I know a lot of people that have had addictions to p*** and I've even had a partner there and a preferred the p*** to having a partner there that will get up and go and do that and that it's so disconnected, isn't it? it's almost an easy connection. You don't have to talk or think or feel it's all perfect and Stage, whereas like I say, the reality of sex is Massey. Is that what you want? Am I doing it, right? there's noises there's smells there's bodies that are perfect. it's not film from angle. We all have roles. Yeah, but it's also funny too. But if you're insecure then that's almost easier because it's not going to hurt you in that way. You're not going to get hurt and here are you it's that to Association and impersonalness.

saloni surah: So again, I think it is talking about it when I was growing up. We had a couple of those Judy Bloom books that talks about sex and they were actually very good and they're all so I think talking about sex and what arouses you some of the erotic literature Maybe. More of a software and easy way in and certainly with some people clients. I've known in the past who have had non-consensual relationships, but obviously want to go on and a witness or have relationships is about exploring that themselves on their own and that often is something that I've advised as a softerly boy into it that it's reading it's controlled. It's not screen. It's a bit more kind of sensual and helps them to hopefully develop a bit more in a different way.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah, I think it's important to maybe talk about. If there has been any kind of sex without consent and you've kind of packed that away. Can we talk about how important it is to not pack that away and to look for someone somehow to release that trauma because it will stay.

saloni surah: So absolutely a hundred percent. I'm all for that. So most clinics certainly in the UK in Island will have Cancer's touch. So there are Specialists. I don't know about the US on imagine. It's the same they usually Specialists assault sexual assault centers with forensic examiners who should have counselors and that on site usually they are free. There is also look, I have PTSD from quite bad workplace bullying the stalking and psychologists. And what was amazing for me and I talk about it because I didn't know as a doctor.

00:25:00

saloni surah: But what was amazing was because the treatment transformed my life and it was called EMDR rapid eye movement desensitization therapy and that was phenomenal. So, finding a good psychologist. If you feel that you don't want to go there because I've had coaching clients who have been raped plenty plus years ago, maybe by people have had long relationships with they don't want to talk about they don't want to go there and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: mmm

saloni surah: I'm like look we need to go there. We need to talk about this or teenage girls. That's been the first sexual experience. You kind of get them in and you want to get them support. So, a good psychologist who does something like EMDR or somebody trained in that so they can really help you process that trauma so that you can move on because sex is a part of life. It's something that does make us feel good.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

saloni surah: It's about healthy relationship and I have seen people go on to have healthy enjoyable relationships a lot of women. I know, I've looked after quite a few so obviously with the sexual trauma as a doctor with some of the coaching clients

saloni surah: to find that those women tend to gravitate to me and it's trying to get them to open up the fact that they have been because they don't want to go there. They may have tried to speak to somebody about it. Maybe if I remember being shot down. Obviously, this is for men too. I'm just talking about from my friends from experience and may well have been a friend of the family as well.

saloni surah: And the kind of said I've gone on and I've had enjoyable and healthy sexual relationships, but you don't really that bit shut down so it could be quite painful. It's tough. I mean, honestly it is tough to open up. It is tough to talk about it. It's hard. It's the emotional but it doesn't go away it will last in there people can sense and feel It will go with you. It will affect your relationships. It will affect yourself Steam and it gets passed on so you can see, we are the products of our parents and they're upbringing and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

saloni surah: certainly, I shouldn't be talking here talking about sex my ancestry and bringing and family. I've told that sex is dirty all sex as dirty all of that stuff and then I became a sexual health doctor so you can break that rule, but you can see that that gets pasta right down by Generations or somebody also does the coaching and I feel and see that in

saloni surah: And clients that came to me. So, I worked on a more levels than the just straightforward level so you can see that and My wish is that nobody hide that everyone is supported with processing that rauma. Obviously, it would be amazing. If we were in a position where nobody went through trauma like that. and whilst that's not the case. It's really about supporting people whether the women whatever being supported were the old or young and finding the right people to support you. But please don't suffer alone. I think that's the thing. Please find somebody and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: then

saloni surah: usually there are sexual sock clinics. It doesn't matter who you are and they have counselors on site and they may not be the best but it's a start and then, …

Cheryl Pankhurst: yeah.

saloni surah: you can look for other counters that specialize in things like EMDR or CBT because

saloni surah: we want you to go on and have healthy sexual relationships. It's a really important part of life.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And I sometimes read if there has been. Colonists actually assault and I feel like sex shouldn't even be the word in there because it's just violent. And maybe we should talk about that being able to talk to our kids about the difference between sexual assault is just violence. It's not sex.

Cheryl Pankhurst: If you know what I'm trying to say.

saloni surah: It's often a power imbalance. So I find the energy of it often a power and bowel and you've been disempowered. it's like kind of having your wings ripped in a way and I talk about that because I've got a book coming out with wings being clipped for me, which is former bullying. So it's an energetic power imbalance, and it's terrible it's horrific. It's horrible. And the other thing is these individuals it's often not just one person. They do it to it's often repeated. And continued because they get away with it.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Just before we wrap up. I do want to touch sex work I don't think enough people especially in schools Educators parents are aware enough.

saloni surah: Yeah.

00:30:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: of what to look for what the signs are how we can help how we can educate I feel like it still is As much as we hear about it more than we ever did I still feel like it's this tight little box that really needs to be exposed more. What would you?

saloni surah: So I don't think there's one size fits all I have looked up to plenty of sex workers and a lot in the UK and Island and the majority of the ones I looked after were women, but a lot of men do it too, but I don't think there's any particular signs and symptoms the majority of the ladies that I looked after were older and actually the last few years A none had come in from overseas. So, …

Cheryl Pankhurst: Okay.

saloni surah: there are a lot of Chinese that were being brought in and that were being moved around but all different ethnicities and some of them were just people who were older and had families obviously is happening more in the young individuals too. So certainly is somebody who has looked after them. I don't again think there's one size fits all

saloni surah: they're usually the big sexual health clinics. There will be Specialists clinics for them because we used to do them as well and things like ensuring that people are vaccinated, contraception regular check-ups from an st. I point of view in the UK in Ireland. They weren't traditionally high risk for HIV and the end of it, the people that were selling sex that were being seen But that may well have changed and I mean things do change quickly that obviously you've also got the mass of homeless cohorts, but usually they're specialist services. So, certainly in East London there were more kind of with the individuals at homeless on the street bosses and stuff going around. So there's usually really individual intervention specialist Services run for them.

saloni surah: And initiating conversations and spotting it. it's a good question so I say I don't have a specific answer for you. I

Cheryl Pankhurst: That's okay. I wasn't clear as soon as you started answering me about. Okay, I wasn't clear on my question. That's my fault. I'm thinking more of the sex trafficking. I'm wondering…

saloni surah: Right, okay.

Cheryl Pankhurst: if there's something That teachers could recognize our parents could recognize that maybe there's something going on here.

saloni surah: sounds

Cheryl Pankhurst: That shouldn't be

saloni surah: I think with these things is often a feeling. I'm gonna be really honestly like I would have patience walking in and I'd go this one's being sexually abused as a child is this one's being raped and often it's feeling and that's a funny thing in medicine. I'm short probably the same with teachers and you get these feelings and you can't explain I've had patience and I've gone just not sure and I've done this scan and they've got it and you're like that shouldn't be but it's just a sixth sense. Obviously, I think…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mm-hmm

saloni surah: if somebody is

saloni surah: Often from a different nationality and we know that there are nationalities that are higher risk. if they are scared or…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

saloni surah: shy or really shut down, they are always Signs of somebody wanting avoiding eye contact really shut down. Not on their own so usually for someone with them and it can be challenging, to try and get them on their own. again In specialist Services. Usually you've got the counselors and stuff. So you've got a few access points to do that. I suppose you can always write it down and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: mmm

saloni surah: ask and if you've got a moment or kind of try and make a

saloni surah: What's the word advised diversion or? Some way that you can get them on their own. I mean we were very lucky in Connect that you often had people that you can go and bounce ideas off and go what did you think are usually had a chaperone or nursing so it was usually something that you could think about but means most Services have safeguarding leads in schools and child care have that and hospitals and services Health Services the children and Sexual Health Service will all have safeguarding in Pediatrics. So they're always good places to start but I think it's often just a feeling and you can't put your finger down on it, and that's not the answer that you wanted,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: .

saloni surah: but that's how these things. For work because we're human and it's senses and things that you can't pin down where you're I'm just not happy with us or sure.

Cheryl Pankhurst: It's so true and I know teachers do have that almost six cents? I think what I'd like to say here is that if you have that Sixth Sense take it further.

saloni surah: Yes.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Ask the questions. Are there any programs that we can build into even our health classes preventative programs to create awareness as they do sexual health and they do STDs is there some kind of learning process that we can put in place in schools prior to just for awareness.

00:35:00

saloni surah: So I'm sure there are and I'm sure I'm probably not the right person. So I'm sure more of the psychological social logical interventions in surfaces would be better for that. So with that I doubt there must be and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: right

saloni surah: I'm just gonna put my hand up and say, I'm no problems are saying this is the edge of my limitation here. Nobody works in isolation. That's the thing. It's not up to you. one foot thing but I think often what I found has worked very well for me is people come in and that's all these rounding symptoms and they've seen five people that's like sometimes it back and go what's really going on here is everything. Okay and that often opens the doorway not are you there? Sorry that what's good really going on is everything okay, and it's surprising how that opens the doorway of

saloni surah: People opening up that being said I've had individuals who I know have been selling sex or that kind of thing and I've done that and they are just not willing to go there and you can't force people if they're not ready if they don't want to is the other thing you can do as your best and provide that space of going look I'm always here if you want to talk but I often find that one of the and especially, it's a great thing to teenagers. what's really going on. Is there anything you'd like to talk about? just leaving it open and again it's difficult to pull into words because sometimes of course we're humans. It's individualized us to who's sitting in front of you and What you feel is the right thing to say, but often those open-ended. Is everything all right? what's really going on?

saloni surah: They can be really powerful. We'll just opening their floodgates to those open questions rather than Are you selling sex while you're doing this? what's going on? Because it may be something else all together totally different and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

saloni surah: that opens the doorway for that discussion of okay, and I think just being open if you are a parent and you have no idea where to start there are always connects to go to ask for advice and you can always take Them for advice, even if they're not sexy active. It's getting them used to that and the services.

saloni surah: There will be something but is everything Is there anything you want to talk to me about? I know that a lot of children your age are probably doing this and this I know it must be difficult to talk to me about it, but you always can or if you want me to help you find something else and I am here for you and those open-ended conversations of and you can say look. I'm not sure how to do this. we can find our way together.

Cheryl Pankhurst: I love that. I think that's the mic drop asking those open-ended conversations. And I think what you said at the beginning is Talking of course having the conversations, but if you don't feel comfortable. Or your kids going to feel more comfortable talking to someone else. Drop the ego and put them in front of that someone else.

saloni surah: Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: I think that is really good advice because sometimes we just don't know what to say or something. We have our own trauma. And how are we gonna talk to our kids about our own trauma? know As soon as we're triggered. We know there's something that's triggered us. I think those open-ended conversations and finding someone your kid trust I think is so vitally important.

saloni surah: Absolutely. do you know what just came to my head? There's a parent and coats that my husband and I fell on Instagram and she has these really good cards. They're not cheap. But the name it's like, you have a voice and your important part of this family. I'm sure they're out there but we need stuff like that around sexual health and for teens that there are really good starting point. Now my husband and I are very different. My husband's Italian and obviously this isn't his main language. So for him, it's a little harder now, I kind of have those conversations with my children to bed. This is conversation with the girls in the podcast if I'm really

saloni surah: Glad to be your mummy and I'm really lucky and he's always like I don't know what to say and for him. It's hard. I just saying that Sports is not us…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

saloni surah: but main language but he's just not as expressive as me. I've also spent 10 15 years talking to numerous patients every day, you…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

saloni surah: and one of the things I kind of loved about my job was meeting all these people, but I'm sure there must be but if not Cheryl that's what you need to be doing that the box of cards and they were cheap, but they were like, everyone in the family has a voice and Brilliance of there must be in the Clinics of things that you can have or the parents to initiate those conversation because sometimes if you just have that started to the conversation.

00:40:00

saloni surah: It opens up and again, is there anything you want to talk to me about I can see that you're worried about something. Is there anything I can help with? I'm those kind of things of are you? Okay is everything all right? Because it might be something altogether different.

Cheryl Pankhurst: I love that and I'm going to do some research for those cards. I'm gonna do that soon as I hang up here. I think that's great. Yeah.

saloni surah: I mean then they're probably there but I'm sure I can't think of the name I'll remember but you that they're just the nice cards because the nice starting points if you're not that used to doing it of having those conversations and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

saloni surah: and I think probably that's it. lot of people aren't used to that. So to having that starting point of right I can say this and practicing so, sense funny but I often will practice difficult conversations for somebody I need to speak to and they've done something that's not nice. It might be a family member or there's a power and balance all of them practice it in the mirror and walking around so I think it's okay to practice it so that…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Such a good idea. Yeah.

saloni surah: but it's one of those things, with medicine you do these clinical exams and you have to present things and so suppose I got into the habit of practicing that and then I started practicing, I'm somebody who

saloni surah: Doesn't really like conflict and you can't avoid it and it seems to become a unit comes into my life the conversations you have to practice of if you're managing staff or difficult conversation that people under performing. And it's far better if you practice it rather than just going into it, because if you're not used to it or not, I've not put time into what you want to say. It's not suddenly going to come out perfect, whereas if you practice it and you try and you don't front of the mirror and you're feeling more comfortable because you've done it a few times. It's a bit like a presentation. It's just easier and it flows. So, I think there's the other things of practice or try it with each other and it's gonna feel awkward and it's gonna feel strange if there's something that those cards and they would be a great starting point.

saloni surah: to that, but I say I go back to my kids and say to them at night, Yeah, I love you so much. And I'm always gonna love you no matter what you do, and I think those are really big things because we grow up or we think that our parents are gonna for sometimes their love is dependent on how Behavior our actions but actually if you tell somebody I'm always gonna love you no matter what you do and I'm lucky to be a mom or dad or that, you're always safe and protected. me

saloni surah: Then that's great. I know that Summits that some of those coaches one of the other things that I'd seen that was really good was they had a thing with their teenagers where they had a message where they could text if they were friends and say it was like a come now or I need you now and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

saloni surah: they would come straight away one task a question and just pick them up and I think that's brilliant. So things like that if you have that in place of if they're uncomfortable, it doesn't matter what it is if you're uncomfortable than I'm there. I'm not gonna ask you a question. It's gonna be my fault that I'm there. There's no blame on you and I'm there. So I think things like that of having something in place if your child or teenager is uncomfortable no longer wants to be there where it is your thought and you take the blame having some kind of

saloni surah: practice of trying to talk to them saying what is it is everything okay and those card type things and then the other point that I was getting from the teenagers from that podcast is I often do read alouds my social media books. I looked after a lot of adults who were illiterate and had very bad poverty and the probably didn't have people reading to them. So for me, it's really important to do that. And I said to them that I'm tiktok. I often got comments from teenagers saying that they were gonna put the light off put the pajamas on and listen to it. And these are younger kids books and they went I'm not surprised because we just want to be read to kids. Do you know and that really kind of surprised me and So I think maybe going back to that love of saying I'm really pleased to be your mom because often these are

saloni surah: five roles and 15 year old's bodies that just want to be loved that don't know how to navigate and find their play way-facing all the feel nervous. They're trying to stand on their own and I'm always gonna love you no matter what

Cheryl Pankhurst: And it sticks, my son is 34. And we'll still say to me make good choices and…

saloni surah: No.

Cheryl Pankhurst: I've said that to them since they were three years old and it sticks so yes those fma Voices in their head it stays there. It does not go even if you think they're not listening, they're listening.

00:45:00

saloni surah: But even if you make a bad choice of failure was good. We all learn from failure.

Cheryl Pankhurst: You for sure.

saloni surah: There's no failures. There's no right or wrong. So I think obviously when I was growing up there was a lot of you God do the right thing and do this and do that and that was parental societal and cultural pressure of whatever but it's all learning curve. Nothing has ever wrong. If you do something wrong, it can be undone, and …

Cheryl Pankhurst: .

saloni surah: it's that going back to the parenting when you're a child to focusing on the good things which can be really hard and not the one bad thing. They've done

Cheryl Pankhurst: yeah, and I like to even the idea of practicing what was going through my head when you were saying that is that If you take a step back, it's always that every conversation I have on this podcast always comes back to there's the pause right? There's the react or there's the pause and then there's a response and the pauses so important and when you're talking about the practice like I'm picturing this mom of a 13 year old kid reading on her phone that she sexually active don't react there go to your room and practice this conversation. So the emotion now is gone. That heavy guilt whatever it is, you're feeling about anger is gone. And now you're just having a conversation with those beautiful questions that you presented already. So I let that's always going through my head when he thought practicing that Because now you're not in it now you're not fired up.

saloni surah: You're The other thing that's great. And I just wanted the girls about was the emotional Freedom technique. I don't know whether you've heard of it, but as a technique that's free usually hands and you working on tapping points. And that is brilliant just bringing the fight or flight terms. Even you as the parent tapping when you've maybe read a text message that you shouldn't have and they're going like you say you're reacting but if you go and talk to them now, it's just gonna go instead of right. I need to calm the sound or doing it with them. sometimes I will do that with my kids and I'll be like, I want me to have a really hard time. No, it's really challenging day and sometimes I lose it but even doing that with them so they can self-regulate so that you're able to stop regulate but Practicing difficult conversations I think is really important because …

Cheryl Pankhurst: No.

saloni surah: they're difficult you love your child practicing difficult conversations.

saloni surah: If there is something like those cards for sexual consensual sex amazing,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: No.

saloni surah: and I think it's still important to say. I'm so lucky to be your mum.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

saloni surah: I'm gonna love matter There are no choices in here. You have a voice is All right, because I think so many times. Those children or teens probably want to say but nobody's given them that way and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

saloni surah: if you just say it's All Is there anything? Going on and that just opens the doorways for hopefully whatever needs come out to come out.

Cheryl Pankhurst: I love it. Thank you so much. This was a beautiful conversation and much needed based on what I see and social media. I think that's why I really wanted to do this is I see that concern so I want to get it out there. So people have more information Dr. Saloni. Thank you so much. I'm going to put all of your resources in our show notes.