#37 ADHD Parents: Flipping the Script : It's Not Them, It's You with Ian Tenenbaum

Understanding ADHD Symptoms - Ian Tenenbaum discusses the familiarity of ADHD symptoms, the struggle to focus, and the role of an expert in helping to identify and understand ADHD.

Ian Tenenbaum discusses the familiarity of ADHD symptoms, the struggle to focus, and the role of an expert in helping to identify and understand ADHD

-

Ian's Personal Experience with ADHD - Ian shares his journey with ADHD, from childhood to adulthood, and the impact of ADHD on his life and relationships.

Ian shares his journey with ADHD, from childhood to adulthood, and the impact of ADHD on his life and relationships.

-

Diagnosing ADHD - Ian emphasizes the importance of seeking professional diagnosis for ADHD and shares his own experience with diagnosis and treatment.

Ian emphasizes the importance of seeking professional diagnosis for ADHD and shares his own experience with diagnosis and treatment.

-

Navigating ADHD as an Adult - Ian discusses the challenges of navigating ADHD as an adult and the process of self-awareness and seeking support.

Ian discusses the challenges of navigating ADHD as an adult and the process of self-awareness and seeking support.

-

Impact of ADHD on Personal and Professional Life - Ian reflects on the impact of ADHD on his personal and professional life, highlighting the need for awareness and support for adults with ADHD.

Ian reflects on the impact of ADHD on his personal and professional life, highlighting the need for awareness and support for adults with ADHD

-

Realization and Acceptance of ADHD - Ian's journey of realizing and accepting ADHD, seeking expert guidance, and identifying opportunities to help others with ADHD.

Ian's journey of realizing and accepting ADHD, seeking expert guidance, and identifying opportunities to help others with ADHD.

-

Genetic and Environmental Factors of ADHD - Ian discusses the biological link between parents and children with ADHD, emphasizing the need for awareness and support for both parents and children with ADHD.

Ian discusses the biological link between parents and children with ADHD, emphasizing the need for awareness and support for both parents and children with ADHD

-

Distinguishing ADHD from Typical Behaviors - Ian explains the language and patterns associated with ADHD, helping parents distinguish between typical and atypical behaviors in children with ADHD.

Ian explains the language and patterns associated with ADHD, helping parents distinguish between typical and atypical behaviors in children with ADHD.

-

Impact of ADHD on Parent-Child Dynamics - Ian discusses the challenges and conflicts that arise when both parents and children have ADHD, emphasizing the need for understanding and support within the family.

Ian discusses the challenges and conflicts that arise when both parents and children have ADHD, emphasizing the need for understanding and support within the family.

-

Understanding ADHD as a Biological Difference - Ian explains the biological basis of ADHD and the impact on brain function, emphasizing the need for awareness and responsibility in managing ADHD.

Ian explains the biological basis of ADHD and the impact on brain function, emphasizing the need for awareness and responsibility in managing ADHD.

-

Strategies for Parents with ADHD - Ian provides strategies for parents with ADHD, including building awareness, seeking resources, and understanding the impact of ADHD on family dynamics.

Ian provides strategies for parents with ADHD, including building awareness, seeking resources, and understanding the impact of ADHD on family dynamics.

-

Understanding ADHD as a Real Thing - Understanding and embracing ADHD as a real thing can lead to immediate relief and acceptance for both parents and children.

Understanding and embracing ADHD as a real thing can lead to immediate relief and acceptance for both parents and children.

-

Recognizing Key Traits and Creating Space - Learning about the key traits of ADHD and creating space to understand and assess the situation for both parents and children.

Learning about the key traits of ADHD and creating space to understand and assess the situation for both parents and children.

-

Success Stories and Strategies - Exploring success stories and strategies for managing ADHD, focusing on self-awareness and nervous system regulation.

Exploring success stories and strategies for managing ADHD, focusing on self-awareness and nervous system regulation.

-

Modeling and Group Coaching - The importance of modeling behavior and an introduction to a group coaching program for adults with ADHD.

00:01 - 00:49
Cheryl-Host: Teen Minds Redefined, you're listening to the podcast with Cheryl Pankhurst. Welcome to another episode of Teen Minds Redefined, where we strive to allow you to foster your relationship with your teenager, have them grow into these beautiful human beings as their own authentic selves. While we help you tap into your own authentic self, 1 episode at a time. And today we have Ian Tenenbaum. Ian, listen, have you ever noticed, I got a question for the audience. Have you ever noticed that your child's ADHD symptoms seem eerily familiar, or do you find yourself juggling a million tasks and

00:49 - 01:01
Cheryl-Host: struggling to focus on any 1 of them? Either way, you may have ADHD and we have an expert, Ian Tenenbaum, who's gonna help us figure that out. Welcome, Ian, I'm so glad to have you.

01:01 - 01:03
Ian Tenenbaum : Thank you, Happy to

01:03 - 01:09
Cheryl-Host: be here. So Ian, what's your story? Tell us why you are where you are and what you're doing and what's the mission first.

01:10 - 01:55
Ian Tenenbaum : Yeah, cool. Thanks. Well, full disclaimer, I'm not a psychiatrist. I'm not licensed to be diagnosing anyone. So let's get that out of the way. My experience is a combination of my own personal story with ADHD as a parent, and then also now as an ADHD executive coach for adults. So I have learned a tremendous amount on my journey and I think it's equipped me to share some of the indicators, some of the things that people may be questioning. Is that ADHD related? So I think I always like to preface and give the disclaimer that I might

01:55 - 02:28
Ian Tenenbaum : say something like it's more common or it's typical or people with ADHD or if this then you might but I'm by no means Attempting to diagnose anyone so anyone who is curious. I always recommend meeting with a psychiatrist There are a ton of online surveys and self-serve ones but to really get a clear idea if you do or do not, I would highly recommend scheduling with a psychiatrist who's licensed to diagnose. Yeah.

02:29 - 02:33
Cheryl-Host: Yeah, good. And so you have ADHD.

02:34 - 02:34
Ian Tenenbaum : Correct.

02:35 - 02:43
Cheryl-Host: Okay. And tell me how you navigate around that before we get into...

02:46 - 03:31
Ian Tenenbaum : Parenting and other stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like how I navigate it now at 43 is very different how I did as a teenager, not being aware of it, how I did in college when I was made aware but wasn't really taken seriously or how I treated it my entire adult life, not ever factoring it into my behavior or my awareness. So, you know, quick story is I grew up as a kid who was very active, very hyper disruptive, charismatic, and I was always labeled and considered so ADD, so ADD. This is in the 80s and

03:31 - 04:07
Ian Tenenbaum : 90s. And it was more of a loose joke. It wasn't like I was diagnosed. It was, oh, he's ADD. Oh, he's so ADD. So I never really thought much about it other than it was a explanation for my bad behavior and my hyperactive. In college, I started failing out and I had to go home because they kicked me out because I was doing so bad. And the condition to come back was I had to meet with a psychiatrist or psychologist and get some type of help that would allow me to succeed. So in that summer, I

04:07 - 04:48
Ian Tenenbaum : did get diagnosed. I was made aware of ADHD, ADD at the time, and I started a three-month study class to go back to school. I went back to school and I had a new found energy and enthusiasm, so I was able to squeeze by. But since then, since 19 years old until a few years ago, I never really thought about ADHD as part of my life. It was never something that was ever considered. So fast forward to about 7 years ago, and I'm going through a divorce, I started 2 companies, mixed success, crash and burn. I

04:49 - 05:19
Ian Tenenbaum : Had a year of reflection and was like what the hell's going on, you know I have accomplished these amazing things in my life and I have so much to be proud of But I also feel like I'm on a roller coaster and I'm going up and I'm going down. I'm going up I'm up and I was exhausted I was like, you know looking into all these different things and developing self-awareness and understanding. And then it wasn't until someone else said to me, did you ever think all of this stuff you're working on might all be related

05:19 - 06:02
Ian Tenenbaum : to ADHD?" And a light bulb went off where I was like, oh, I never connected the dots, right? So then I started leaning into that And I started realizing, oh, that emotional regulation is ADHD related or, you know, I'm having trouble remembering things. I don't need more techniques. That's ADHD. And then I connected the dots and I started seeking out the nation's best experts. Dr. Hallowell I saw as my psychiatrist and got all the support I needed. And I started developing skills and awareness about this. At the same time my son was going through school, IEP,

06:02 - 06:37
Ian Tenenbaum : all that stuff. And I started realizing that for our kids and youth nowadays we have a lot of awareness and a lot of support. But for the 30 to 50 year old business person, executive or older, We're just lost in the shuffle, right? You're an adult, figure it out. I don't want to hear it. But these things are very real and very persistent and very frustrating. So I identified that there's an opportunity to build a business around this and help others. And I've been on that journey now for about a year.

06:38 - 07:18
Cheryl-Host: I love it. And I'm gonna add into that because my story, I am diagnosed ADHD 1 year ago and I am now 59. And the funny thing is I spent 25 years in the high school system. So the years that I was teaching in a classroom, I noticed I was like, oh, I can't sit here much longer. And my thoughts would trail off. And then I became the head of department and special ed, which meant I was running around putting out fires all day long and it was my jam. I was like, there's no ADHD in

07:18 - 07:51
Cheryl-Host: me. This is great. I can do this. And the only time it really affected me is every time I had to sit in a staff meeting, I would literally, and this was obviously once a week or once a month, I would literally feel nauseous even thinking that that's what I was doing. And knowing all the time that I've been working with kids who have diagnosed ADHD for 20 years. Am I putting the dots together yet? No, I'm not because most of the kids I'm working with are boys. And so it was very different symptoms. And I

07:51 - 08:29
Cheryl-Host: noticed that, so I wasn't very chatty as an adult, but I did notice I was incredibly shy, but I could not focus on somebody's conversation long, very long at all. I would start fading off and I would like force myself to listen again. And it was so frustrating. And then of course the staff meetings. And it wasn't until I decided to start my own business and I had to sit at this computer and I had to learn all of this tech stuff that I thought uh-oh now it is having a major impact on my life all

08:29 - 09:05
Cheryl-Host: day long And so I went to the psychiatrist and I was diagnosed. She was almost like, yeah, okay, here, you're done. You don't even have to keep talking. I know what's happening. And so this is where for me, I accommodated it for years and years and years without any kind of medication. But at this point it was, I need to try something and it changed my life. So no, I'm not pro pushing drugs by any means, but I am saying there is a validity to trying everything. And if nothing works, there is something that could work.

09:05 - 09:41
Cheryl-Host: So that's my story. And it literally like, it has changed my world because there's no way I would be able to do all of the new startup stuff and focus on that and still get this role. So I can appreciate how, you know, there's different stages of life, where it is affected and where isn't. And when you turn it around and start helping people like you're doing, I think that's amazing, amazing, amazing. So let's start with, like we're talking about parents who possibly might have ADHD, but I want to ask about first the genetic piece. Is

09:41 - 10:00
Cheryl-Host: it the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, your kid has ADHD, you probably have ADHD or vice versa, or is there also the possibility that kids see our day to day as ADHD parents and think this is just the way it goes? What do you think about that?

10:02 - 10:51
Ian Tenenbaum : So the question has a lot of parts, right? So let's break it down into parts. 1 part is the biological, right? So Is there a biological connection between parents and children? Yes. There's a high correlation. I don't know the exact stats now. It's not guaranteed, but parents with ADHD have a really high likelihood that their kids will. So there's a strong link. It's not always, definitely not 100%. I like to grab that stat. But there is a high correlation biologically. So that's 1 part of your question. Another part of the question is, I guess, maybe inherent

10:51 - 11:36
Ian Tenenbaum : in that answer is that it is biological. It's not environmental. So when we're talking about ADHD as a medical diagnosis and a biological difference of the brain, these aren't learned behaviors and these aren't environmentally developed or from watching. So that's the baseline, let's say. So if a child has ADHD, it's biological, they didn't choose it, the parents didn't choose it, the parents didn't give it other than potentially genetically, right? They didn't, you know, through parenting, you know, create an ADHD. Like when people talk about, oh, our society now, you know, oh, it's making everyone ADHD. I

11:37 - 12:19
Ian Tenenbaum : would there's a tremendous research and science and that's not the case, but is it Exacerbating or is it? You know amplifying or is it making people with ADHD have more challenges, more struggles, than probably, yeah, right? So maybe hundreds of years ago, a lot of us with ADHD would have been the ones that are constantly busy, physically active, high stimulation, dealing with crises, going out hunting. There wasn't sitting at a computer for hours and writing a report, right? So I don't think they would have ever noticed, you know, oh, I can't sit and focus. They'd be

12:19 - 12:46
Ian Tenenbaum : like, well, go get food. We're going to die. Why would you be sitting and trying to focus? You know, and if they are sitting and trying to focus in a hunting environment, there's all the conditions present for someone with ADHD to excel. There's pressure, there's urgency, there's the dopamine, there's the danger, there's the immediate gratification, there's all these factors that would make that the perfect

12:50 - 12:50
Cheryl-Host: circumstance for

12:50 - 12:51
Ian Tenenbaum : someone with ADHD to

12:51 - 12:51
Cheryl-Host: really zone

12:51 - 13:38
Ian Tenenbaum : in and focus and excel. So we've got biological. Yes, there's a link. Is it something parents create ADHD children through their behavior? No. Are there probably, I don't know, studies or science, a impact that parents with ADHD are having on their ADHD children without knowing it based on their behavior? I would be willing to, you know, I would say yes. So if somebody with ADHD is already at a deficit in certain areas, which means they need more help than others, They need more guidance, more structure. But then you have the parents who are not equipped or

13:38 - 14:29
Ian Tenenbaum : not capable themselves of even identifying that or providing it. That's where maybe gets to the root of your question. Is there that kind of challenge? So yes, so what I think is probably the best route is as many parents as possible can learn about their own ADHD, how it presents skills and strategies, and then be aware of it in their children and learn what do they need from them to compensate and be able to delineate between that's a kid who's disobedient and is just being a brat versus that's a kid with XYZ, you know, mental, social,

14:29 - 14:38
Ian Tenenbaum : emotional challenge, and they need this other type of support. Very challenging line for us parents to navigate.

14:39 - 15:12
Cheryl-Host: Yeah and I you know what I'm so glad you said environmental has nothing to do with it. So before we even dive into everything There is the release of all the guilt for parents thinking, oh, my God, my ADHD completely screwed up my kid. Done. We don't have to feel guilty about that. We're done. Let's dive in. Let's talk about what are we looking at? I'm going to say because there are so many podcasts that are amazing that are helping parents identify ADHD in their kids, but we're turning the tables. We're turning the tables because we

15:12 - 15:29
Cheryl-Host: need to know, you know, are you really just struggling with the day-to-day stuff that everybody struggles with? Or is there some factors and indicators there where you need some more support and you come by anonymously and there's support there? So what are we looking for?

15:30 - 16:18
Ian Tenenbaum : So a couple examples. So if we're going to start looking at how to delineate between what is, let's call it typical, neurotypical, and what is atypical or ADHD, it's helpful to start the conversation with some, you know, like agreed language, right? So the challenge that a lot of people find is when you start learning about these things in our children Most parents most adults say yeah, but yeah, everyone has everyone struggles with it. Oh, you know, like 1 example managing time Oh, yeah, you know, I'm forgetful. Oh, yeah, you know, I I'm always working on time

16:18 - 17:16
Ian Tenenbaum : management, right? But there's some language that we can look at. So there's things like occasionally, frequently, struggling, repeatedly, typically. So when you start looking at these words, right, the challenge with ADHD is Even though it has been proven with brain scans and biology and neuroscience that there is a brain difference, the way it presents is often a little bit subtle. So it's like the spectrum concept. So in parents, maybe managing your kid's homework is always, you know, managing homework for all adults, for all parents, may be frustrating or challenging. But someone with ADHD may find that

17:18 - 17:58
Ian Tenenbaum : it feels nearly impossible not to get their kid to do it, but for them themselves to be able to, you know, hold them accountable, remind them, discipline them. So then it feels like, oh, they should be able to do it. They should be, cause we're, it's overwhelming to us and we're frustrated as it is. So then we want to put it on them and say, I shouldn't have to, I shouldn't. So there may be this nuance where maybe a typical parent might be a little better at, okay, here's what you need, here's what's expected, you need

17:58 - 18:40
Ian Tenenbaum : to do it now, and they'll hold that structure. Whereas someone with ADHD may be like, I don't know, you know what you're supposed to do. And it's like a flustered energy, right? So that's 1 example. So another example may be like with organization where I'd say everybody in the world, most people have some areas or some frustrations or some amount of work. But someone with ADHD may be the more extreme of that. Repeatedly late for school because repeatedly can't find their keys. Repeatedly forgets to tell their kid something till the last minute and then repeatedly feels

18:40 - 19:34
Ian Tenenbaum : frustrated. So there's these patterns that develop and whether it's managing things, creating structure. Another good 1 is in discipline. So so much of parenting in my limited experience, but what I've learned is, is the ability to be consistent with consequences, with rules, with structure, right? And when you're a parent with inconsistent expectations, inconsistent consequences, inconsistent discipline, it really makes it difficult to develop that behavior change in the child, right? So someone with ADHD is gonna have a much harder time implementing that and holding that consistency than someone else might, Right? And that's where it starts to

19:34 - 20:20
Ian Tenenbaum : all fall apart, where, you know, I'll speak from example, you know, sometimes I know exactly what I need to do to create these structures and expectations, but I find myself, we often want to redirect it or we want to project it onto them, but I'm now noticing I'm overwhelmed with all the things I need to do to get him to XYZ, right? And when I'm overwhelmed with it, then we dip into another area that parents with ADHD may struggle with is emotional regulation. And where a neurotypical parent, the average brain, might get upset once in a

20:20 - 21:08
Ian Tenenbaum : while, might get frustrated, might lose their temper once in a while. But with someone with ADHD, it might feel consistent like every day, every time, every day we do homework, every time we leave for that. And there's, forget about the child. There's this parent nervous system that's always on alert and doesn't have the ability to step back and say, I'm the parent. Okay, they're being difficult, but I need to think clearly and figure out how to parent someone with ADHD might be like 0 to 60 overwhelmed. They, this, they, that, oh, ah, ah, ah, and people

21:08 - 21:46
Ian Tenenbaum : with ADHD have a deficit in our ability to regulate our emotions. So if a typical brain, a typical biology has a better handle on throttling like, okay, calm it down, we're going to be late, they messed up again, I have to be the parent, Someone with ADHD is going to be more likely to be agitated, overwhelmed, not able to think clearly, not able to then... So those are just some of the ways we kind of go down and they all intersect, right?

21:46 - 21:46
Cheryl-Host: If

21:46 - 22:19
Ian Tenenbaum : you're organized, you may get more flustered. If you're flustered, you may have emotional regulation. Emotional regulation, you can't think of the rules right. Now you're inconsistent with your disc. So if this, any of this sounds familiar and it just feels like it's a pattern that's going around and around and around, and you can't figure out how to break that, it might be worth looking into, oh, do I maybe have ADHD, and maybe some of this is my challenge and my work to do as well.

22:19 - 22:23
Cheryl-Host: Yeah, and not your fault. Totally not your fault.

22:24 - 22:24
Ian Tenenbaum : Correct.

22:25 - 23:01
Cheryl-Host: Because I think we can take on as parents, right? We can just take on so much guilt and so much responsibility and it can just pile and pile and pile. And if we can sort it out to, oh, okay, well, this isn't my fault. And there's things that I can check into and people I can talk to and supports. I can't Imagine if you have, are there different things to look for if your kids got ADHD and you've got ADHD, how does that clash? How does that look in a house?

23:02 - 23:56
Ian Tenenbaum : So I'll use an analogy. Imagine a couple, a married couple, who are both high conflict personalities. Both of them thrive on confrontation and arguments and fights. How will those conflicts go? How will those fights go? Those will be explosive, right? So they'll go from 0 to, if you have 1 high conflict and maybe 1 avoidant, you know, it may balance out, you know, you have 1 high conflict and 1, it may kind of, so but both high conflict are going to, right? So you have a child with ADHD, struggling with structure, with emotional regulation, with consistency,

23:57 - 24:31
Ian Tenenbaum : with remembering. Now you have a parent who also is. They forgot to remind them, they forgot to do it. They're mad because they forgot to do it. They're mad because no 1 reminded them. They're now getting upset because they're late. They're now getting upset because it's not their fault. They're now getting upset because it's always the kid who didn't XYZ. They're now getting upset because every day I upset my parent. They're now getting more. Oh my God. It just kind of goes around and around and around and around.

24:32 - 25:08
Cheryl-Host: I can feel it. I can totally feel it. So, you know what? I kind of want to go backwards just for a second because when I say it's not your fault, maybe there's people out there that have actually no idea about the science of what ADHD actually is. Can you talk about that? Because for the same as what you said before, oh, everybody has ADHD, you know what? I am so happy that people are getting more aware and recognizing and getting diagnosed with this. And so I am overjoyed when I hear somebody say, everybody has ADHD.

25:09 - 25:19
Cheryl-Host: Yep, that's because people are actually becoming aware. And I think that's good news. So what is ADHD and what does it look like in our brain?

25:20 - 25:58
Ian Tenenbaum : Yeah, so a couple examples I like to use because people are more familiar with other types of health challenges. So if somebody was struggling with their eyesight, It's just automatic. You get glasses, you get contacts, you get, you know, nobody says, you know, your vision is, you know, in your head or you're making it up or, you know, society, everyone has glasses. They just, you just go get your glasses and you move on. Right? If you forget them to drive you probably say I'm not going to drive because it's dangerous right? I need them to see

25:58 - 26:30
Ian Tenenbaum : right? It's it's just very binary. It's very if you had a friend or a family member who was struggling to go to work or leave the house because they're struggling with depression, I don't think most people would say, well, everybody gets upset. Oh, everybody has a hard life. They're just being a spoiled brat, right? There's a point where you'd say, okay, they probably need medication, right? There's probably some clinic, they could be suicidal, like it's not a joke, right? Like there's something going on different for that person to sort of brush over it and say, you

26:30 - 27:03
Ian Tenenbaum : know, why don't you try going for a walk? Like, go watch a funny show. Like, that cheers me up. You'd be like, I think you're meant, I don't think you're getting it. Like, they're, they're in a dark place. Like, they need like a hospital or medication, right? So I think if we start looking at these things as, okay, there's the eyesight, these are all physical differences, right? So there is enough research and plenty of studies and I don't know all the exact parts of the brain, but people with ADHD don't naturally produce as much dopamine. There's

27:03 - 27:45
Ian Tenenbaum : different parts of the brain that are responsible for different functions that are, you know, conclusively proven through scans and, you know, biology and neuroscience, you know, structurally different, right? And these have direct impacts. So I think back to your comment on it's not your fault, I think I've heard this many times and I love repeating it. There's a difference between your fault and your responsibility. So these things are not our fault, but they are our responsibility. So to just say, oh, well, I have ADHD, so I don't have to, or I have ADHD, That's why it's

27:45 - 28:25
Ian Tenenbaum : an excuse. I think it's helpful to become aware and say, oh, just to heads up, I have ADHD, so I might forget. I'm sorry, it's not personal. Remind me, right? That's different than, you know, it's not my fault. Don't bug me about it. So our responsibility would be, if you are noticing a lot of these symptoms and challenges are persistent over a lifetime, and they feel like they're hurting your quality of life, then it would be your responsibility, in my opinion, to do a little research, maybe go meet a doctor, see if there's solutions for you.

28:25 - 29:04
Cheryl-Host: That's such a good point. That is such a good point. I like that. And, you know, just even from our experience, once you get to the other side of that, it looks very, very different and is very much worth looking into. All right, so I'm a mom or dad, just got diagnosed with ADHD. I have these teenagers in my house, can you give us some strategies? With anything, again, the homework, Can you give us some strategies with nervous regulations?

29:06 - 29:51
Ian Tenenbaum : I'll take a step back and start from the top. Cause if somebody's newly diagnosed, there's likely what I experienced with all my coaching clients and friends also, and people I interact with is there's this light bulb relief moment of, oh wow, oh, you know, light was shine like the person putting on glasses like, oh, so The first step before trying to over architect any behavior change would just be starting with this new baseline awareness. So reading the books, you know, Hallowell and, you know, all the famous, Driven to Distraction and stuff like that. There's new on

29:51 - 30:34
Ian Tenenbaum : ADHD 2.0. There's a lot of people that are writing great books. So just start learning and understanding it because the more a parent, I think, understands it and Embraces it as a real thing there there's probably an immediate relief of acceptance of the child and Understanding of the child That's like half the battle. So when you could say, oh, well, my child keeps forgetting this, it's not because they're doing it to spite you. And they know they could, but they're intentionally manipulative. They're not that smart, right? It's not so usually it's because they forgot or it's

30:34 - 31:13
Ian Tenenbaum : not a priority or you haven't set up the proper incentives for them. So when you can just kind of like start learning about the key traits and start noticing it more in your child and in yourself, then you can start kind of trying to like, you know, meet in the middle. You know, the example of the 2 high conflict parents, they are in couples therapy. The first step might be, if you notice the other 1 getting upset, take a step back, maybe not time to have that discussion, right? So with 2, you know, a parent ADHD,

31:13 - 31:54
Ian Tenenbaum : a child ADHD, the first step is probably like, hey, take a step back, maybe, Maybe you're not setting something up right for them. Maybe this is part of their ADHD. Just creating that space between what am I supposed to do about this? And if we pause and say, well, wait, let me figure out what's even going on. And half of the time I find with myself, it's a result of something I didn't do well enough. And I can own and say, well, what do I expect of them? Like, I didn't really set clear expectations. I changed

31:54 - 32:31
Ian Tenenbaum : every week. So of course they are not complying. So then I turn the tables. What do I have to do now? How can I work on this? And then it has nothing to do with them. Or sometimes it's, well, that's more challenging for someone with ADHD. So how am I going to expect them to do that? Okay, I need to like research and come up with strategies that will work for some for a child with 8, right? Getting that like there's not like a silver bullet. It's more just developing that pattern of I'm gonna pause And

32:31 - 32:38
Ian Tenenbaum : I'm gonna try to understand what's going on and then assess is this something on me? Is this on them or is this both?

32:40 - 33:01
Cheryl-Host: Yeah, good point. Good point. So there's success stories, right? You're coaching, tell us their success stories. Tell us there's a light at the end of this tunnel. Tell us that, you know, even in general, the changes people are finding when they work with you. What are they seeing? What are they coming out with?

33:02 - 33:33
Ian Tenenbaum : Yeah, so like I was touching on with that last example, when you said what are the strategies, so much of it really stems from the understanding, the self-awareness. Just, that's like, in my opinion, half of it, right? Just understanding when something is caused and then why it's happening. A big challenge for us with ADHD is the, you know, regulation of our nervous system.

33:33 - 33:34
Cheryl-Host: Yeah.

33:34 - 34:22
Ian Tenenbaum : And that becomes something that's like hard coded, it's automatic over years and years. And what I'm finding with myself and with clients is through attention to it and focus on it and practice, we can start to gradually rewire our nervous system and adjust it. And that so much of what we're talking about with ADHD stems from either the overly regulated, you know, up regulated nervous system, getting too, you know, excited or the down regulated, we are lacking motivation and we, we, so we may be overexcited or overstimulated or, you know, dysregulated. Those are all floods of

34:22 - 35:12
Ian Tenenbaum : stuff and it's hard to think clearly and it's hard to access our executive functioning. And then when we're downregulated it's really hard to you know motivate to you know have you know initiative. So long answer of saying, is there light at the end of the tunnel? Yes, 100%. And I think so much of the benefit comes from just the sheer evolution of our nervous system. And we'll start to see we're more calm, we're more thoughtful, we're more organized. Like with glasses, like with, you know, clinical depression, we're not going to like erratic, these aren't things that

35:12 - 35:42
Ian Tenenbaum : you fix and remove from your life. So I think that's the other part of it is the self-compassion, self-acceptance. These are things that we learn to manage and we manage well with skills and tools and practice. These are not things that we eradicate. No. So long answer, but yes, a lot of light at the end of the tunnel. But there's not really an end to the tunnel, I guess.

35:43 - 36:20
Cheryl-Host: Yeah. Well, And also, you know, as if you're a parent with ADHD and your kid has ADHD, they can also really learn from you putting your tools into place, from you taking that step back. And they will see, you know, you don't have to tell them. They will see the difference if you're taking that space, if you're taking a step back, even if you're saying out loud, oh ADHD kicking in, hold on, I need to take a breath. All of these things are so important. I find that, you know, years ago, even 30 years ago, when

36:20 - 36:48
Cheryl-Host: I was parenting, I felt like I couldn't be vulnerable in front of my kids. I had to have all the answers and everything that I said was right. And, you know, I was like a human Google over here trying to get the answers. I would never say, I'm totally stressed out. I need to back off or, oh, I don't have that. I would never say that. So this is the time where it's like, okay, we need to shift that big time because my kids who, I don't know if I'm outing them or not, might have ADHD,

36:49 - 37:13
Cheryl-Host: but are able to see, they all years ago would be able to see, oh, okay, I see mom do that, that was helpful, maybe I'll try that. And I think that's so important, like so important. It's such a shift in parenting. And I know you don't coach just parents, you coach adults. Tell us a little bit about your coaching and how we can work with you, where we can find you.

37:13 - 37:31
Ian Tenenbaum : Yeah. Well, first I'll just add on to what you just said, which really deserves more attention is the idea of the modeling and the modeling in a parenting or in a relationship with a partner or in a business, like modeling is so critical.

37:32 - 37:32
Cheryl-Host: Yeah.

37:32 - 38:14
Ian Tenenbaum : It's really hard to model something that we haven't developed ourselves. And that's where some of that feedback loop of, oh, well, I know what they're supposed to do and I'm just trying to get them to do it, it's like, but they're not if you don't. So yeah, modeling is probably ground 0 for a lot of this stuff. Yeah. So I work with executives, some startup founders. I have a newsletter, accountable.live, and I just launched a private group community. So it's a group coaching program, co-working body doubling and weekly workshops and a Friday planning session where everyone

38:14 - 38:51
Ian Tenenbaum : comes together and plans their week. It's very supportive, it's adults with ADHD, and we're gonna keep adding on different topics and different classes and workshops and things that people need support with. So it's an ongoing, you know, like I said before, this no light at the end of the tunnel, there's no end to it. You know managing ADHD is about creating the structure. We all know ADHD is frustrating because we know what to do, most of us, we just don't do it. So a lot of it is creating the scaffolding and the structure and my group

38:51 - 38:53
Ian Tenenbaum : program does exactly that.

38:53 - 39:04
Cheryl-Host: That's amazing. Thank you for that. And I will put all of that in the show notes. Is there anything I didn't ask that you want to talk about, you want to say any last words?

39:06 - 39:48
Ian Tenenbaum : No, I think we covered it. I think it really comes down to being honest with yourself and the self-awareness. And I think the, the, you know, closing words, I think you touched on it. It's modeling, that is really so critical. And that's going back to your earlier question about is it biological? Are we messing up our kids? You are modeling whether you are aware of it or not. Yes. You're modeling bad habits and bad behavior. You're taking a kid with ADHD

39:52 - 39:52
Cheryl-Host: and you're

39:52 - 40:06
Ian Tenenbaum : reinforcing bad or counterproductive habits. That's where the loop does become a little bit difficult to break. So, work on ourselves and our kids will reap the rewards.

40:06 - 40:34
Cheryl-Host: And I'm gonna say Ian's mic drop is not your fault, but your responsibility. Great words. Thank you, Ian, for joining us. Thank you for listening to Teen Minds Redefined. I'm so grateful you're here. Please share this with anybody. You just never know who's struggling with what. And we need to get this into so many years. Teen Minds Redefined with Cheryl Pankhurst. New episodes out every Wednesday. Thanks for stopping by.