#39 "Betrayal Recovery: Parent's Guide to Redefining Family Dynamics" with Vanessa Cardenas

In this episode of Teen Minds Redefined, Vanessa Cardenas shares her personal story of betrayal and the impact it had on her family. She discusses the importance of working through betrayal and the steps to take in order to heal and rebuild trust. With insights on how to communicate with teenagers about betrayal and the importance of keeping them in the loop, Vanessa provides valuable advice for navigating difficult family dynamics. Join host Cheryl Pankhurst as she delves into this important topic and offers practical tips for moving forward after betrayal. Tune in for an insightful conversation that could change the way you approach relationships and betrayal.

heryl-Host: Teen Minds Redefined, you're listening to the podcast with Cheryl Pankhurst. Welcome to another episode of Teen Minds Redefine, where we redefine our relationships with our teens, where we allow them to grow into these authentic human beings. We're not just raising children, we're raising human beings. And we want to send them off in this world as authentic, true to themselves, secure, healthy, happy teenagers. And we have a beautiful guest today. Her name is Vanessa Cardenas. And Vanessa, let's see, how do you turn the darkest moments of betrayal into a beacon of hope and personal growth? And Vanessa

00:55 - 01:23
Cheryl-Host: is gonna tell us all about that today. And I find it so interesting in how You have just taken something when I first heard the words out of your mouth when you were talking in 1 of our communities and I thought, oh, that would just be. But look at you. Look at you turning just some darkness and despair into like you just like watered a garden of flowers so welcome Vanessa I'm so happy to have you here.

01:24 - 01:48
Vanessa-Guest: It's such an honor to be here. What an amazing topic and so poignant in in today's society and what we're doing and how we do need to every once in a while look around us and realize that there are others in a different generation that are watching us very closely because they're learning from us.

01:49 - 01:49
Cheryl-Host: Yes.

01:49 - 01:55
Vanessa-Guest: And while they might not be, oh boy, they are, they absolutely are.

01:55 - 02:01
Cheryl-Host: And they may not be listening to us. But they're certainly watching us. The teens of ours.

02:02 - 02:42
Vanessa-Guest: Yes. And that's why we have generational situations where patterns repeat from generation to generation. Because we don't take the time to actually heal from something that has happened within our life. And we carry it on, we pass it on to our children, just solely based by the way that we handle the situation. And we do it 1 of 2 ways. We either completely repeat the pattern, or we do a complete 180 and go with the complete opposite direction. Yeah. It still has that impact on the family.

02:43 - 02:58
Cheryl-Host: Yeah just because you go in the opposite direction doesn't mean you've healed anything. Yeah, that's a that's such a good point. Okay, Vanessa, let's tell us about you first. I want to hear your story. And then we're just going to dive right in. But I want the audience to hear who you are.

03:00 - 03:36
Vanessa-Guest: Who I am is I am somebody that was addicted to certainty. I thought for sure that if I checked off all the right boxes, I went to the right high school, I studied really hard, I got good grades, I went into college, I got my college degree in psychology. I married my high school sweetheart, the house, the white picket fence, the cars, the 2 children. I was inoculated from anything terrible happening to me. I truly thought that way. I had climbed up the corporate ladder. I was in the C suite. I had what I thought was

03:36 - 04:09
Vanessa-Guest: the perfect life for me. I was happy. I was content. And then 1 day in Central Park, because I'm in New York City, my husband and I are walking through and he sits me down on a bench and he says, Vanessa, there's something I need to tell you. And I am people watching and I'm so into what's going on around us because the city is just so vibrant. And I turned to look at him and I look at the most beautiful chestnut brown eyes, the same chestnut brown eyes in high school that I fell in love

04:09 - 04:58
Vanessa-Guest: with madly, passionately, fully. And right at that moment, I thought to myself, wow, I still love him. I love him so much. A millisecond later, oh, things had changed because he said 3 words to me that I never ever thought I would hear him say. I've met someone. I've met someone. What? What? And I fell apart. I completely fell apart. I raged. I immediately saw a movie in my head of what my life was going to be like from that moment forward. He was gonna go off and marry the most beautiful woman on the planet and

04:58 - 05:38
Vanessa-Guest: kids and house and cars and all of that for her. And I was just going to be alone. And it was gut wrenching for me. I shattered into a zillion pieces. We came home, because we were in the city and we live about 40 minutes outside of the city, which makes for a very interesting car ride. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How we didn't get into a car accident. I have no idea, but we came home and regrettably my teenage daughter was home. And I did all the wrong things. I did absolutely all the wrong things. I came

05:38 - 06:17
Vanessa-Guest: in raging. I pointed my finger at him and I go, tell her, go ahead, tell her. Tell her what you did. I was so angry and I wasn't prepared for the unloading that my husband did on my daughter. He did not want to tell her, Let me get that straight. He did not want, we'll talk to her as a couple when you've calmed down and I'm raging. And I'm like, you have to tell her because I felt the need to have her on my side. Like she needed to understand my point of view. I never really

06:17 - 07:00
Vanessa-Guest: put her feelings into play. But once she heard that and she saw me freaking out, she immediately thought my parents were getting divorced. And she withdrew and went off to get consoled by her friends. I was useless as a mother at that particular moment in time. My husband was as well as a father. We just didn't know how to process this bombshell that just exploded in our family. And what happened was my husband and I spent the whole night, 24 hours talking about the situation. What are we gonna do? How are we gonna handle this? What

07:00 - 07:15
Vanessa-Guest: not? Because I was resistant. You did this, you know, here are my rings, we're separating, that's it. Yes, we're going to chalk up the 20 years that we've been married plus the 10 years we knew each other before that.

07:15 - 07:15
Cheryl-Host: Yeah,

07:15 - 07:47
Vanessa-Guest: it's gone. It's over. It's done with and my husband did not accept that he was not willing to accept that He said we we have to work on this for the sake of ourselves for our family For for everyone around us. We need to work on this. I am not just going to let you go. We have to work on this. In my particular case, I got lucky with that because in a lot of instances, and now that I work with couples and I work with women and I work with men, it's really a severe separation.

07:48 - 08:37
Vanessa-Guest: It's not a speed bump. It's not a stop sign. It's a brick wall that your relationship hits. And what I found out through the whole process was the reason that it hit me so hard. You have to keep in mind, I'm a smart woman. I have a psychology degree. I should be handling this so much better. Why am I in essence completely freaking out? Why am I being the most outrageous Karen you've ever witnessed? That's because I had had all of these micro betrayals throughout my life, These little betrayals that start as early as you can

08:37 - 08:40
Vanessa-Guest: remember, that never quite healed.

08:41 - 08:41
Cheryl-Host: I'll give you

08:41 - 09:30
Vanessa-Guest: a perfect example if I may. I was best friends with Annie. Annie was my best friend in first grade. Me and Annie, we were peas and carrots. And then 1 day, Annie, like, turns her back to me. I'm not your friend anymore. I'm friends with Mary now. What? I was so hurt and I went home in tears because she wasn't my friend anymore. What was wrong with me? She wouldn't be my friend anymore. And when I came home and expressed this to my mother, now keep in mind I was born to terrified teenage parents that really

09:30 - 09:54
Vanessa-Guest: had no license to be a parent. My mother said to me, just very flippant, you'll make other friends. And she just dismissed my feelings. And I had to swallow my feelings and put on my big girl panties and watched my best friend become best friends with someone else.

09:55 - 09:56
Cheryl-Host: Oh my god.

09:56 - 10:39
Vanessa-Guest: That's the micro betrayal. Yeah. It's huge at the time and then as you get older it becomes this little micro betrayal. But what happens is all these little micro betrayals, they're all there. They're right under the surface. And when you have a catastrophic betrayal, such as I've met someone, and in essence, your heart is ripped out of your chest. Yeah. I'm done. All those little micro betrayals, oh, they start quaking. They start rising to the surface because they want to be handled as well. They want to remind you because your inner critic comes out full force

10:40 - 11:00
Vanessa-Guest: and there's something wrong with you. See what you did? It's happening all over again. You deserve this. Oh my gosh. Yes. And you start to hear all of those ways in which the adults in your life, when you were a child, you minimized your feelings.

11:00 - 11:01
Cheryl-Host: Yeah.

11:02 - 11:45
Vanessa-Guest: Another example I have of this, because I'm of a certain generation and my grandparents were of a different generation. My grandparents went through the war. They had lots of war stories that they talked about. But anything that I experienced that I felt was really challenging or very difficult, they minimized by saying, well, that's nothing I went through the war. And when you're minimized over and over and over again, I'll, that sticks with you. I'm over 50 years old and I can still remember every single moment that my grandfather, that I would come to him with tears

11:45 - 12:27
Vanessa-Guest: in my eyes because my dog broke or something happened that was at the moment in time based on my age was traumatic to me. He would minimize it and just say, oh, that's nothing. At least you have a doll. So I would always hear at least, at least, at least you have food on the table. At least you have clothing. At least you have this, at least you have that. So again, we go back to the day in Central Park, everything rose to the top. All of it did. And I was a mess. I was truly,

12:27 - 13:13
Vanessa-Guest: truly a mess. And it really wasn't until months later, because I thought for sure I could fix myself. I had a psychology degree. Why couldn't I fix myself? I had mentored and coached over 500 employees as a C-suite executive. No, no, I couldn't do it to myself, let alone I want to fix him. I can't fix him either. And it wasn't until I actually asked for help. I finally succumbed and said, I need help. And I searched out all the gurus. I had the most amazing experience that 1 of the gurus that I discovered and I

13:13 - 13:54
Vanessa-Guest: worked with one-on-one and then eventually I joined her group was that within group I became an unofficial sponsor to all the other people within the group and she pulled me aside 1 day and said you know Vanessa you're really good at this You just have such empathy and compassion. And I think you should do this. So now I should think she was talking to me. I'm like, are you? Me? And she's like, yes, you. I'd like to sponsor you. I would like for me to sponsor you to get all of the training that you need. Wow.

13:54 - 14:45
Vanessa-Guest: You to be a betrayal recovery specialist, so that you can start helping others that experienced exactly what you experienced, that overwhelming avalanche, that you didn't know how to process, you didn't know how to take care of and just really struggled with. And now I get to help others. It's so rewarding. It's absolutely amazing for me and a lot of it has to do with the 5 family dynamics and how We have a relationship that our children watch. In my particular case, both my children watched the fallout, the aftermath, which was just gut wrenching. I mean, I

14:45 - 15:18
Vanessa-Guest: have a son and a daughter and they both processed it very differently. My son lived with us though he was older. He lived with us still a teenager ghosted his father. Saw right through him looked like he protected me. Yeah, I did with me And he looked right through my husband as if my husband was not there for 6 months. My God. And my husband took it because he knew that what the actions that had happened were his own. And he took ownership of

15:18 - 15:19
Cheryl-Host: that. Okay.

15:20 - 15:53
Vanessa-Guest: My daughter, on the other hand, tried to play both ends. Because we know that teenagers do that. They do play both ends. Well, mom said I could go to the party. And dad said, you know, da-da-da-da. And they're bouncing us back and forth off each other because she's recognizing we're in the midst of some sort of argument about something. So 1 of us will say, yeah, you know, just to get her to leave the situation. She'll get what she wants. Interesting. Our teenagers are smart.

15:55 - 15:56
Cheryl-Host: No doubt there.

15:57 - 16:39
Vanessa-Guest: Oh yeah. And I found it very interesting because during the aftermath of the betrayal, my husband and I decided that we were going to keep it close to the chest. We not share it with anyone else. Our children knew about it. My parents, his parents, in laws, family, friends, nobody knew about it. It only came out when in essence I came out. Because the bank was the best kept secret in New York. I was helping clients kind of, you know, not on social media, just referrals, word of mouth and whatnot. And it wasn't until somebody approached

16:39 - 17:12
Vanessa-Guest: me and said, listen, you're being really selfish. And I was like, I'm being selfish. I'm helping so many clients and they're like, you're being selfish. You need to get out there. You need on stage, on podcasts, you need to write a book. You need to go big because your message and what you do and what you stand for and how you were able to get through trail and stay married. We're going to celebrate 33 years.

17:12 - 17:15
Cheryl-Host: Wow. Well, congratulations on that.

17:16 - 17:50
Vanessa-Guest: And so I came out. So suddenly friends and family knew about it and they're like, wait a second, this was going on? Yeah, it was going on. It was going on. Unfortunately, I feel the ripple effect on our children. My daughter got involved with a wonderful young man, and I see their interaction and I see her stand up for herself and I see her not take any crap.

17:50 - 17:51
Cheryl-Host: And she

17:52 - 18:32
Vanessa-Guest: empowered by the experience tells me, you know, on the side, she goes, she goes, mom, I give you a lot of credit. I'm not going to tolerate that. It doesn't matter how many years I haven't done. I know the red flags. I know what to look for. In hindsight, yeah, there were a couple of things, little things here and there that kind of made me feel uncomfortable, but I was like, well, if it doesn't bother mom, it doesn't bother me. And whatnot. And my son, in hearing about his father, subsequently hearing about his grandfather and his

18:32 - 19:26
Vanessa-Guest: great grandfather and his great great father. Okay. Generational thing that kind of happens as well. He wants to break that generation. He wants it to absolutely stop with him. Yeah. He's committed to that. And I see that interaction with him and his long-term girlfriend that he's had for quite a while on how he treats her and respects her and is very transparent and is very forthright in how he feels. He's expressing himself. Golden. So this disastrous, devastating event that happened in my life, I always smile right before I say this. I'm better for the experience. It

19:26 - 20:06
Vanessa-Guest: was gut-wrenching to go through. I don't advocate it for anybody else. Please don't go through it. Please, please, please don't go through it. But when you go through an experience like this, the first thing, and this was something that someone said to me early on, and I just, I dismissed it. I did not want to hear it. No, no, no, no, no. Though something terrible has happened to you, it wasn't about you. It wasn't about you. Yeah. And initially I was like, oh, it's gotta be about me. I must've done something wrong. I was not enough.

20:06 - 20:52
Vanessa-Guest: I'm too much. Cause I got a lot of energy in case you haven't noticed. No. It's that type of thing. Because initially we take on all that weight of that betrayal. We take on all that shame and that guilt of that betrayal. We feel like it's something that we did or didn't do. And once we learn that though it was done to us, it wasn't about us, that becomes powerful. And that's something that I try very hard to instill with my daughter, with my son, with their friends, because they because of social media and their their

20:52 - 21:18
Vanessa-Guest: warriors with their thumbs. They take everything so personally. Yeah, what happens on social media, when somebody disagrees with something that they said. They can have a hundred comments that like their post, that love their post, yes, yes, right on. But 1 person has to say something that debates it and they will not let that go.

21:18 - 21:18
Cheryl-Host: Yeah.

21:19 - 21:28
Vanessa-Guest: Not let that go. Mm-hmm. And suddenly they're in a match with their thumbs. They're going back and forth. We as kids used to have, you know, the thumb wrestles.

21:28 - 21:30
Cheryl-Host: Yep. It's cool.

21:30 - 21:33
Vanessa-Guest: Well, now we're doing it with a device in our hands.

21:33 - 21:35
Cheryl-Host: Yeah, good point.

21:35 - 21:39
Vanessa-Guest: Going to town. Yeah. Because they feel that they can say.

21:40 - 22:20
Cheryl-Host: Yeah. You know, I thank you for sharing all of that. And I honestly, you know, I did a ton of what I thought was research, but did not know the end game with you. I didn't know you stayed married. Looking at your website, going in from when we met, that's just a mate not amazes me in a bad way. I'm just like, Wow, okay. So what strikes me, I just want to go back to the interaction at the beginning of this is, you know, your reaction when you said you raged and, you know, really felt badly

22:20 - 23:05
Cheryl-Host: that you didn't react well. However, I find that when 2 people are in a different place in their relationship, the 1 person who has met someone has gone through all the stages of grief and separation. Before they say to you, this is over, or this is done, or I've met someone where you had, you had the 7 stages in 1 second. Like, so there's there's I don't know anyone who would have reacted any differently at all. So there's that. And then I'm thinking, So best case scenario, and I don't think you did anything wrong because of

23:05 - 23:27
Cheryl-Host: just exactly for that reason, I think anyone would have reacted. However, if you were to say, man, I really wish I had just when you walked in the door and your daughter was home, when your son, what would you have thought would be the best case scenario? What would you have said? What would you have done differently?

23:29 - 23:40
Vanessa-Guest: I would have gone completely the other way Because when you're in that state, it's usually 1 of only 2 reactions. 1 you rage. Yeah. Or you turtle.

23:41 - 23:41
Cheryl-Host: Yes.

23:43 - 24:27
Vanessa-Guest: I would have liked to have turtled. I would have liked to have gone within and just, okay, let me process what's going on. Let me feel all of this. Let me, let me just, let me close myself off everyone else. But because of all those micro betrayals screaming at me and whatnot, I wanted a team around me to say You're at fault. This is your fault. You've done this, this and that and just been able to explain my behavior. I'm raging, but I have a reason to. I'm angry. But I didn't see it from my daughter's

24:27 - 24:30
Vanessa-Guest: point of view. I didn't really see it from my son's point of view either.

24:30 - 24:36
Cheryl-Host: Yeah, how could you? To me, that just sounds like blind rage. You couldn't have.

24:37 - 25:20
Vanessa-Guest: Correct. Yeah. It just it made it very, very challenging because my husband and I decided we're going to try to work on this. Yeah. We're going to try to work on this. We're going to attempt to I don't like the word fix. We're going to attempt to rebuild our relationship back to the intoxication it was when we were kids. Yeah, my daughter and son had they they were very challenged in school because my husband and I met in school. So they felt that they're going to find their 1 in school. So when my son graduated high

25:20 - 25:54
Vanessa-Guest: school and he hadn't found the 1 yet, you know, kind of this situation that he had going on, he's like, okay, I'm going to be alone forever. And it's Like, no, no, no, no, no, that's not the case. You don't have to emulate us. And he's like, well, wait a second. Your parents met in school, granted they became teenage parents. And then he looked at my husband And he goes, well, same thing with you. You were born to teenage parents as well. So they both met in high school. And I'm like, it's okay. You don't have

25:54 - 25:56
Vanessa-Guest: to get a girlfriend. Yeah.

25:57 - 25:59
Cheryl-Host: Fronder, you didn't, thanks. I

25:59 - 26:42
Vanessa-Guest: had to find a thing And whatnot. And the same thing for my daughter. My daughter felt that pressure of, oh my gosh, I have to find the 1 in school. And didn't either. But they both, you know, they both ended up with some really, really good people in their corners, which I'm very, very grateful for. And now that they have seen the betrayal, their relationships are more solid because of that, because they went through that experience with us. I would have preferred that day to turtle. I would have preferred to respond rather than react.

26:43 - 27:30
Cheryl-Host: Yeah, yeah. I hear you. And you know, at least this conversation, if, you know, we have a listener who has not experienced this yet, and then in the future does, hopefully your words will trigger just turtle, just turtle, just turtle for now, for now. So I'd love to know, can you give if parents are going through this now, whether together or not together, but they have teenagers, I speak the teenage language, nothing much younger. So teenagers, can you give some kind of advice? What are the next steps if they're in the middle of this turmoil? How

27:30 - 27:34
Cheryl-Host: do they navigate this? How do they, what do they do?

27:36 - 28:02
Vanessa-Guest: Transparency, lots of transparency, a lot of talking. A lot of talking about, we're working on this. We're working with a professional on this. We're working with a coach on this. We're working on this. We're trying our best. We're trying our best. We might not be there yet. Yet is such a powerful word that we do not use enough of Because yet means possibility.

28:03 - 28:03
Cheryl-Host: Yes.

28:04 - 28:41
Vanessa-Guest: We're not healed yet, but we will be. We are not there yet, but we will be. It is involving your children as much as you can. There are certain things that they don't necessarily need to know. But with that being said, you want to be transparent with them. You want to let them know because there's so much uncertainty. There's so much. And then we we as a society, we don't like uncertainty. We don't like certainty. We become addicted to certainty. So you want to reassure your teenagers, we're working through this. We're going to work through this

28:41 - 29:24
Vanessa-Guest: and you know, week by week, incrementally, it's not going to happen overnight. Nothing happens overnight. You can't do 600 sit ups in the very next day, have a 6 pack, work that way. But incrementally, we're making progress step by step by step. And we appreciate your help. We appreciate your your involvement to a point. Because this is still our relationship. After you move out, after you go out onto your own with your own relationship we're still left here there's something called empty nest.

29:24 - 29:25
Cheryl-Host: Yeah.

29:25 - 30:04
Vanessa-Guest: So with that being said we want to work on our relationship and that's what we're doing because sometimes relationships ebb and flow they just do And you have pivotal moments in your relationship where the dynamics change and things change and circumstances change. This betrayal is a bombshell. But we have to decide, is it a speed bump? Is it a stop sign? Or is it that brick wall that you can't get past and you need to move in a different direction? Keep your children in the loop. We're not looking to divorce. We're looking to make this work.

30:05 - 30:31
Vanessa-Guest: We're looking to figure out how to amicably separate. It's a lot of dynamics moving in pieces. Yeah. For parents, I strongly suggest that you communicate with school and you let school, especially teachers know it. Yes. My God, yes. Because what they're not showing you at home, They're going to be showing at school.

30:32 - 30:33
Cheryl-Host: Yes, 100%.

30:34 - 31:05
Vanessa-Guest: You need to make sure that you are communicating with the teachers, listen, our family is going through something. You don't have to disclose it. You don't need to disclose it, but just to indicate, our family's going through something at home. We're working on it. We have counseling, we have therapists, we have coaches, whatever it is. We're walking through it, but I just want you to be aware in case junior acts out in class or is distracted or something is going on, behavior, I want you to be aware of it.

31:05 - 31:07
Cheryl-Host: Yeah, that's such good advice.

31:07 - 31:09
Vanessa-Guest: He's not displaying it at home.

31:09 - 31:10
Cheryl-Host: Yeah.

31:10 - 31:12
Vanessa-Guest: Might be displaying it in here.

31:12 - 31:13
Cheryl-Host: Yeah.

31:13 - 31:24
Vanessa-Guest: The other thing to be very mindful for, especially with our daughters. The same is daddy's little girl. Okay.

31:25 - 31:25
Cheryl-Host: Yeah.

31:26 - 32:15
Vanessa-Guest: We have that same for a reason, but when a daughter looks at her father differently, it not only cuts her, it cuts the father as well. They really, really feel that. And we need, as parents, to recognize that dynamic. And we need to make sure that we do all that we can to salvage that relationship as well. Yeah. Because of social media and because of all those feelings that our teenagers feel and have a hard time processing, we don't want her looking for a different father figure because she then becomes very vulnerable. We don't want that

32:15 - 32:16
Vanessa-Guest: for our daughters.

32:17 - 32:53
Cheryl-Host: No, that's really good. That's really good. And I think a big part of maybe your success is I'm divorced. So I know hindsight in the sense that I didn't tell a whole lot of people at the start either. And I feel like because you didn't do that, because you kept things close to your chest, it meant that all these people aren't making these judgments and forming opinions. And then there's this wall of I'm on her side, or I'm on his side. And then you have to break through that when you decide, yes, this is going to

32:53 - 33:31
Cheryl-Host: work. This is great. We can do this. So I think that's, you know, when people start to separate or something like this happens, can I say, find your own people, find your own sounding board, but don't make it your friends or your parents or your siblings until it's done and in the bag and everything's, whatever it is settled? But in the meantime, in that turmoil, I feel like that was probably a really great strategy that you had to just say, let's keep it here. We're gonna work it out. Therapy, whatever is elsewhere. But I think that's

33:31 - 34:08
Cheryl-Host: such good decision making there. Yeah. So we know betrayal doesn't always happen in a marriage. So I just want to touch on, You know, if a parent is starting to get some kind of clue that their teenager, college kid, whatever is in a relationship and there could be some clues about the betrayal on their behalf, betrayal on their boyfriend or girlfriend's behalf. What what would we look for and how would we have that conversation

34:09 - 34:51
Vanessa-Guest: with our kids? Powerful. First thing we want to notice is change in behavior. Absolutely. And you know your child best and you'll see it all over their face. I know that kids think they have a poker face, but they do not. They do not. And and you need to pick at it very carefully. You also need to let them know that you're there, that you're available, that you understand. And that if it's not you that they wanna talk to, that they have another trusted family member that they can speak to. They have someone to talk to.

34:52 - 35:26
Vanessa-Guest: And if they're on a college campus, kind of reach out to the Dean and say, I noticed a little change in behavior. I noticed a little bit of a change. I'm a little concerned, But you know, as a parent, I can't come into my child's face and be like, what's going on? Sometimes you can kind of skirt around it a little bit, you can kind of get wind of it that way. And on the language that they start to use. Yeah, if they start to use language around, I felt invalidated.

35:28 - 35:28
Cheryl-Host: Okay.

35:30 - 36:20
Vanessa-Guest: Something along the lines of, I guess it just wasn't for me. I'm not, I'm not enough. I'm not enough for them. Ears perk up. Ears perk up a lot. You wanna listen carefully, not listen passively. Listen with intention to pick up on those certain words Because they're very telling unless you have a different type of relationship, but for the most part, our teenagers keep everything very close to their chest and they'll share it with their friends. They don't necessarily share it with you. And it's, it's, you know, driving in the car and, and you talk as

36:20 - 36:54
Vanessa-Guest: if you're talking passively but you talk with intention. Oh you know I just want to make sure that you know that you can always chat with me. I'd really like not to find out things from Facebook or from Snapchat or from and so and so or from your friend who has that or 1 of these other socials and whatnot. I hope that you know that you can always talk to me or what my husband and I do, to share this with you in hopes that my children never hear this. My husband and I have a really

36:54 - 37:30
Vanessa-Guest: good tactic because we know that our children are listening. Even though we think that we think and they come off as not listening. They're listening. They're listening. So my children will be on their phones at the dinner table. Now I don't like that, but that's okay. They do now. Once they became adults and they became 18 years old, I'm an adult. Yeah. Yeah. Phones made their way to the table. My husband and I don't do phones on the table at all and we'll have a conversation. And if I want my daughter or son to specifically do

37:30 - 38:02
Vanessa-Guest: something, I can't ask them directly. But if I mentioned to my husband, you know, so and so son applied for a job at X, Y, and Z company, he wasn't qualified to do it. But you know, it was interesting that he was able to apply for that job he founded on Indeed. You know, I listened to that and it was a, it was a, this, this, this, this, you know, thing and what not. I bet you I know it. My son over in the corner of the table, he's typing in Indeed, he's typing in the job

38:02 - 38:40
Vanessa-Guest: title, looking at it. But if I told him directly, oh, there's a job on Indeed, you should apply for it. Resistance. Resistance. But my husband and I will talk about other people and what their kids are doing. Suddenly the ears perk up on the other side of the table and it's like, oh, Mary's daughter is doing X, Y, and Z. Or I'll say, oh, I saw something on Facebook about X, Y, and Z. Did you see that on Facebook? I thought that was really interesting. We'll talk amongst ourselves with the intention we want our kids to

38:40 - 38:41
Vanessa-Guest: hear it.

38:43 - 38:44
Cheryl-Host: Yeah. Oh my goodness.

38:44 - 39:04
Vanessa-Guest: Sometimes we want to go around it right to the point. And that's okay. Sometimes we have to circle that drain. The most important thing is that we get our message across. Yeah. Our teenagers are listening, they're watching, they're seeing, But they don't want to admit it. Because they know everything.

39:04 - 39:41
Cheryl-Host: Of course. That goes without saying. Okay, you know what? I think before we wrap up, I do have, I want to ask 1 more thing. I want to ask about the healing process. So let's turn the tables. And our kids have gone through some kind of betrayal, not necessarily a boyfriend, their best friend, as your story, someone at work, even somebody on Facebook, Whatever. How do we, what are 2 or 3 things that we can say or do or help rebuild in their healing process of being betrayed?

39:43 - 40:20
Vanessa-Guest: Well, we're talking about self betrayal. Let's talk about self betrayal and that inner critic, that inner critics really loud. We need to tap that down. We need to, in essence, have a conversation with ourselves because we're suddenly in an abusive relationship with ourselves. We need to fight back. When we hear that nasty chick voice or that dominant male voice talking to us in a way that we would never allow anybody else to talk to us, we need to tap it down. Hey, I've got this because it does 2 things. 1, it allows us to recognize that

40:20 - 40:25
Vanessa-Guest: our inner critic is talking to us. It's not our intuition, it's not our gut.

40:25 - 40:25
Cheryl-Host: Yes.

40:25 - 41:05
Vanessa-Guest: It's our inner critic and we need to tell her or him, enough. I got this. I got this. We also need to remind ourselves of our accomplishments, what we have done, quote, right. What we are most proud of. And sometimes I suggest to my clients, write it down. Write down everything that you have ever done. I got an A on this paper. I was in the choir. I this and that. I got my driver's license the day after I turned 16. Whatever accomplishments you have, write them down. And when you feel that low point, take out

41:05 - 41:38
Vanessa-Guest: that sheet of paper. Let me rephrase that. Take out those sheets of paper. Yeah, good. And read through them. You'll be surprised how many things you forget at that exact moment when you're feeling down because both voices are screaming at you counteract that. You know what? I've got a list of all my accomplishments. This is great. And every single week add to that list because there is something special and unique that you have done.

41:39 - 41:39
Cheryl-Host: You have

41:39 - 41:53
Vanessa-Guest: to win right down that win because we so easily forget our wins. Because we focus on what was hard, what was difficult, what was challenging, what we didn't quote do right.

41:55 - 42:12
Cheryl-Host: So true. So true. Well, Vanessa, I feel like I could talk all day because I have 18 other questions, but I'm going to maybe we'll do a sequel. So tell us how we can work with you, where we can find you, all the good stuff that we can put in the show notes, please.

42:13 - 42:51
Vanessa-Guest: I love it. Where you can find me is definitely on my website. My website has an interesting little story backed for it as well. I love Stephen King, the author Stephen King, and in high school, when I was in high school, I read every single book of his. There was 1 book in particular that I absolutely loved. I took it out from the library and I did something sacrilegious. I tore a page out. Yes, I know. I tore a page out, but it meant so much to me. And 30 years later, I still have that page.

42:52 - 42:53
Cheryl-Host: Wow. OK.

42:53 - 43:34
Vanessa-Guest: I read it around because it meant so much to me. It was a quote, and it's a long quote. I condensed it. The most important things to say are the hardest things to say. They're locked within. Not for the want of a teller, but for the want of an understanding ear. So when I got pushed into social media and not to be selfish and get my message out there, I of course needed a website. Well, I wanted a URL that meant something to me. My name and yes, I have the domain name for my for my

43:34 - 44:16
Vanessa-Guest: have the domain name for my name with a hyphen Vanessa hyphen cardenas.com but you know It's me, but it just didn't feel like me. So I wanted understanding ear, because that's what I have an understanding ear. And I go for sure because I'm late to the game, I'm going to have to wrestle that name away from somebody. Turns out it was free. It was there. It was there. It was there. So it was meant for me. So you can find me on understandingear.com. That's where I have everything that I do all of my parents's my books.

44:16 - 44:38
Vanessa-Guest: And my second book is dealing with the devastation of your partners, the trail, how to talk to your kids, your parents, your friends and your family. So I've written the book on it. And that's over on Amazon. So thank you so much for that. Absolutely great. I actually look forward to a sequel.

44:38 - 45:19
Cheryl-Host: Yeah, me too, because I think there's so many different ways we could go with this when it comes to betrayal. And I, you know, I'm sorry that you went through this initially. However, I'm grateful that you are sharing this because it could really change some relationships and some reactions and some responses and congratulations on your anniversary. And I just think that that might not be everybody's answer, but it's yours and that's wonderful. So thank you, Vanessa. I'm so grateful you're here. I'm so grateful that you are sharing your story with us. And yeah, we'll talk again.

Cheryl-Host: Thank you for listening to Teen Minds Redefined and we'll catch you later. Teen Minds Redefined with Cheryl Pankhurst. New episodes out every Wednesday. Thanks for stopping by.