#42 "Mastering Co-Parenting: From Conflict to Cooperation" with JP Marsh

In this episode of Teen Minds Redefined, we discuss the challenges and triumphs of single parenthood with special guest JP Marsh. With a staggering 48% divorce rate in North America, navigating co-parenting can be difficult, but JP shares his story of collaboration and co-parenting success. Learn how to navigate the complexities of single parenthood and find peace and harmony in co-parenting relationships. Tune in to hear JP's inspiring journey and gain valuable insights on building a positive co-parenting dynamic. Don't miss out on this empowering episode of Teen Minds Redefined.

Cheryl-Host: Teen Minds Redefined, you're listening to the podcast with Cheryl Pankhurst. Welcome to Teen Minds Redefined, where we strive to allow you to have a relationship with your kid. And I'm gonna say for today's episode, the number 48% is the stat. That's the stat of divorce across North America, which means if it's not you, it's maybe the person next to you. And so we are just trying to really share some information, share a story, maybe shift your perspective on how we are raising our kids through our choices to divorce. And is it possible to navigate single parenthood

00:55 - 01:03
Cheryl-Host: without the chaos and the drama? And JP Marsh is here to say, yes, it absolutely is. JP, welcome to Teen Minds Redefined, Glad to have you.

01:03 - 01:05
JP-Guest: Thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here.

01:06 - 01:12
Cheryl-Host: So JP, let's start. Tell us your story and why are you on the podcast talking about it?

01:14 - 02:03
JP-Guest: Well, So, you know, my daughter is not quite a teenager yet. You know, I have a 9 year old. And she, her mother and I broke up, we were unmarried. And so we'd, we'd split up right after, you know, just not long after she turned 2. So I've been doing the single father co-parenting situation for the last, you know, 7 plus years. And, it's gone from, you know, your normal conflict scenarios to a lot of collaboration now, you know what I mean? And It's not a big deal. Shed or dance recital, you know, the other day.

02:03 - 02:38
JP-Guest: And, you know, my daughter's in a blended family now, but we all do barbecues together and we all do holidays together and sit by each other at these school functions, sports functions, yada, yada, yada. Go to the lake, you know, and stuff like that. And it's no big deal. And it's it's not weird because, you know, obviously nobody makes it weird. But the more that I've the more we were around people, you know, especially once she got into school age and, you know, obviously half of the kids that are in her school are in the same

02:38 - 03:16
JP-Guest: situation that she's in, whether it be still high conflict parents, but you just, you get to interact with all these other parents. And the thing that, you know, I hear the most would be, I wish I, I wish my situation was like that it was like yours I wish we could do stuff like that and da da da da and in in my mind you know the the normal should be the like mine and the outliers should be the ones that can't communicate at all and can't even be around each other in person. And then through

03:16 - 03:46
JP-Guest: different times in the last 10 years or so when I've been doing a lot of this internal self work and especially after the collapse of the relationship and right after we had split up, my dad died unexpectedly. So then I was dealing with much of that stuff. So I had a lot of these, you know, I kind of went into a depression and fell into a funk and all these different things. And then as I started changing my outlook on life and the way that I perceived things going on around me and the way that I

03:46 - 04:22
JP-Guest: reacted to the things I perceived going on around me. Everything in my life just little by little became, you know, my co-parenting relationship was easier and started mellowing out. My work-life balance became a lot smoother and started working itself out. I was, you know, I had to train myself to be an adult and deal with baggage from, you know, my childhood that I don't want to pass on to my daughter and deal with traumas and all these different things that had happened in and around me my entire life so that I could raise her to be,

04:22 - 05:06
JP-Guest: you know, more competent, better person, more empathetic, more compassionate, and hopefully deal with less trauma and baggage from her childhood that I had to deal with for my childhood. And the coaching thing kind of was an easy, you know, I still do my day job. I've been in construction carpentry for 20 plus years, But when I was young, my dad quit drinking and had to go and needed AA. And so coaching and AA sponsorship, there's not a lot of difference. You're helping somebody 3 to 5 years behind you. And so growing up, you know, when my

05:06 - 05:37
JP-Guest: dad stopped drinking, I think I was like 5 years old and it was, you know, for the first couple of years, he needed like an AA meeting or 2 a day. And so, But the sense of community and the helping people that were on the same path that you're on or, you know, helping people avoid pitfalls, changing their mindset, changing their triggers, identifying their triggers and all of these things were all part of AA because you're essentially doing the same thing. And so it wasn't that huge of a leap, you know, growing up in that sort

05:37 - 05:39
JP-Guest: of a structure system.

05:40 - 06:22
Cheryl-Host: You know, it's funny when I hear, as soon as I hear you say inner work, I'm like, yes. And, and I think almost every episode I've done for parents of teens, moms of teens, doesn't matter, is if you're struggling over there, it's cause you're struggling in here. And when you start working in here, you don't have to say anything. It just ripples out. It just ripples out. And I, you know, it's, I love that you're doing that in your, in your daughter's only 9 because she's seeing this and you are going to collapse time for her.

06:22 - 07:09
Cheryl-Host: And when, you know, when I start doing this inner work and I'm doing like master classes and blah, blah, blah, And sorry to say 99% is women. Sorry. I hate that now. But it also tells me that they're my age. And my strive here is to collapse time for our kids too, to see what's it like to fulfill our purpose, do our inner work, battle our demons now when we're 18, 10, 19, whatever, and start living a life of authenticity and purpose from the start, instead of having to switch gears when you're 55 and, and I

07:09 - 07:52
Cheryl-Host: had the trauma and my dad left and, and they divorced and they fought and I can't be in the same room and oh my God. So, and I'm going to just briefly, so I'm also divorced. My kids were 14 and 12 and so impact like so impactful that I will tell you, I remember this was in 2005. I still remember where I was, what I said, how I said it to the kids, what I was wearing, what their reaction was. It was so impactful. And in the first year, yep, it was a battle. It was a

07:53 - 08:33
Cheryl-Host: battle. But then, you know, we figured it out in the sense that It has nothing to do with them. They didn't pick this. They didn't pick this. So there's so many things that we've decided for them. And I think it's just so important to be able to say they didn't choose this. And now we're the same. We attend events together. We celebrate together. Everybody sends Mother's Day, Father's Day messages, my daughter just got married, and I was able to stand up in the May speech and say thank you to the best co-parent I could ever ask

08:33 - 08:52
Cheryl-Host: for. And it was, you know, it's, it's, it's so friggin important that we can get past this. So JP, let's start. When you first lit up, Was it all peaches and cream? Were you sending flowers here? No,

08:52 - 09:45
JP-Guest: no, no, no, no, no. A lot of fighting and bickering and you know, I, there were certain, I mean, there was a lot of conflict in our interactions, not necessarily, you know, not necessarily in front of my daughter or around my daughter or even really having anything to do with my daughter. And, you know, probably the majority to like 90% of it, I had control over or it was me. Right. And so like what I tend to find working with people and being around a lot of these things in these sort of circles of, you know,

09:45 - 10:16
JP-Guest: whether they're newly divorced and divorced for 10 years, you know, if they are in these high conflict kind of situations is, is the first thing you got to do is get out of your own way. You know, you've got to leave your own pity party because whether she was intentionally trying to trigger me, you know, cause you, you were together. I mean, you know what everybody's triggers, you know, the other person's triggers are, you know what's going to get a rise out of them or, and so even if it, you know, whether she was, whether it

10:16 - 10:35
JP-Guest: was a purposefully or, or not, I was, I was getting, you know, no matter what was being said or what text was coming through, I would instantly get defensive. And then I would throw gas on the fire And then she would throw gas on the fire and then fires never going out because you got 2 people both throwing

10:35 - 10:35
Cheryl-Host: Yeah,

10:36 - 11:17
JP-Guest: whereas the less ice you know the less that I let my Unresolved baggage emotions and feelings cloud what was actually trying to be discussed or what the, you know, what was, what was actually going on. Everything just kept getting more civil and more civil and more civil. And then got to a point where it was just past that. But, You know, part of getting out of your own way is, you know, it's, it's weird little mindset shifts, but because I don't, you know, rarely do I ever call my daughter, my daughter's mother, my ex, because that's

11:17 - 11:52
JP-Guest: not who she is in this situation. You know what I mean? Like, and the sooner that you can stop looking at them as the person that hurt you, betrayed you, left you, you know, get rid of the animosity, the anger, the feelings that hurt and start looking at them as the other parent more than your ex or the person that betrayed you or whatever, then you start moving forward and it becomes leaps and bounds rather than rooting in this, you know, just staying in this pig pen and rooting around and all of this BS that's all

11:52 - 12:21
JP-Guest: in the past and has no, it doesn't matter. The relationship's gone. Grieve it. Let it go. Yeah. But you are connected to that person for the rest of your life or the rest of their life. You know what I mean? And so, you know, sure everybody likes to say, you know, well, I mean, like once kids are out of high school and adults and on their own and stuff that, you know, Oh, well, they're still going to have kids. Your daughter just got married. I mean, if you can't be in the same place at the same

12:21 - 12:45
JP-Guest: time, then they have, then you're putting your kids in situations where on the happiest day of their life, they got to figure out which parent gets to come to the wedding. What parent gets to go to the hospital when they have their first child, what parent gets to babysit when they go on vacation? Who gets to go on vacation with them? If it's going to be a big family cruise when the kids 10, 12 years old, what parents going to be at soccer games or grandparents can get soccer games, but you know what I mean? And

12:45 - 13:18
JP-Guest: so like you're there forever, you know, God willing that there's not a tragedy of some sort. You know what I mean? Like that's the only really way that you're getting out of that kind of situation. But once you can get out of your own way and stop seeing them as the person that did X to you or vice versa and start treating them as the other parent. Right? Everything just starts, you know, a lot of the, the, the, you can't, you can just deal with that baggage. Everything just starts to kind of change.

13:19 - 13:28
Cheryl-Host: Yeah. And you think back to the time or what it was that made you go, Oh, not my ex.

13:29 - 14:11
JP-Guest: Obviously, you know, the, the circumstances of the divorce or break up and those things, some circumstances are going to make it a little bit harder to sort of get that shift because you know, when, you know, from, from probably the time that, you know, when she was pregnant or a little after she was pregnant, the relationship was just a bunch of switches had shifted in my brain when my daughter was born, which, you know, inevitably changed my outlook mindset, you know, determination goals, all these things Sent me into overdrive as a provider, wanting to have a

14:11 - 14:47
JP-Guest: certain kind of life and a certain kind of household and raise my daughter a certain kind of way. Obviously it was somewhat wrapped around baggage from my childhood and those kinds of things, you know, the things you tell yourself your whole life. Well, when I'm a parent, I'm this, you know, this is why it's going to be different. And so little by little, the relationship just kept, just deteriorated. And then when she was, you know, around the time we were arguing a lot, it just wasn't a happy place. There wasn't a lot of collaboration, even knowing

14:47 - 15:04
JP-Guest: we were together and all that kind of stuff. And it was, it was kind of a deal where I, I kind of had to make a choice and really look at the situation because I knew that if my daughter got very much older than she was, then it was going to be a lot harder to try to separate.

15:04 - 15:05
Cheryl-Host: Yeah.

15:05 - 15:41
JP-Guest: So, you know, in my mind, I've always looked at it, you know, my parents were married my entire life, but it wasn't a very loving, supportive household. My parents were 2 roommates my entire life. And so 1 of the things that I had always told myself was even if I have kids to happy households are always going to be better than 1 miserable 1. Yeah. Like I'd never, I'd never believed that 1 miserable house was better off than 2 thriving, happy individuals. Yeah. But I also knew that as they get older, or able to, you know,

15:41 - 15:48
JP-Guest: my daughter's too. So her memories of me and her mother together are very few, if any left.

15:48 - 15:48
Cheryl-Host: Yeah.

15:48 - 16:17
JP-Guest: Whereas you get into 8, 10, 12 years old, then it, then that's where you'll start to get the, it becomes a lot harder on the children because then you start getting their emotions and feelings and guilt for they, maybe they take responsibility for it, think it's their fault. Yeah. And there's a, you know, and I knew those, that age was going to be coming up. So it was kind of a deal where it's either it's going to get better or now is the time. And, and so we just kind of, you know, and then we broke

16:17 - 16:50
JP-Guest: up, but it wasn't a deal, you know, it probably took about a year. And once everything started kind of getting easier and we weren't fighting all the time, cause the, the, the, the fighting wasn't due to unresolved feelings or, you know, lingering emotion or attachment to each other. It was more of just trying to sort out and me getting triggered, pushing her buttons and vice versa and going back and forth. And so it wasn't hard for us to kind of get out of that timing for the, you know, when we were done, we were done. Nobody

16:50 - 16:56
JP-Guest: was really looking back to try to try to latch on or hold on to something that wasn't

16:56 - 17:18
Cheryl-Host: there. Well, and it's, I think to, you know, it'd be completely unrealistic to say, yeah, okay, we're not together anymore. And everything's peachy keen. Yes, we can go parent, no problem, completely unrealistic. And I think that's really unrealistic when it's 1 person Has decided all of this long before it actually happens.

17:18 - 17:21
JP-Guest: Yeah, usually 1 1 more than the other

17:21 - 17:25
Cheryl-Host: Yeah, so 1 person has gone through the 6 stages of grief

17:25 - 17:28
JP-Guest: and checked out You're over here person even knew

17:28 - 17:57
Cheryl-Host: yeah, so yeah, they're gonna be angry yet you're gonna be dealing with this shit because that's the position you put them in now not that they're it's something that's wrong but it's you can't expect somebody over here to be where you're over here like it's just so I'm here and then there's so many times I hear that it's like oh he's so mad about this or she's so mad about that. Yes, because you had all this time in your brain where you haven't bothered to communicate that this is where you're headed.

17:57 - 18:35
JP-Guest: It's kind of funny to me too because grief is grief. Right? Nobody, nobody tells people that they need to follow this schedule if their sibling dies parents die grandparents die or any Coworker best friend childhood friend doesn't matter nobody's you know nobody's telling them that they need to grieve on this schedule and get over it in a month's time. Whereas Essentially for that person, you know for both people 1 has already grieved and moved past and that's usually whoever starts dating first is usually the 1 that checked out of the relationship months and months ago. But

18:35 - 18:52
JP-Guest: then then to demand that the other person speed their grief process to fit into your schedule, because all of us, you know, they're, they're going to have emotions come up because you they're more, you know, odds are they may have gotten blindsided by the entire situation.

18:52 - 19:09
Cheryl-Host: Yep. Yeah. I think that's such important information to have out there because I think it's so, so unfair when, you know, when the partner who's gone through everything is just like oh my god I can't believe it okay can't you believe it anyway

19:10 - 19:11
JP-Guest: right

19:11 - 19:37
Cheryl-Host: so let's talk about then like how how do we go from this chaos? Like how, what kind of conversations are you having? What kind of steps are you taking? Like if you're, if we've got listeners who were like, I'm right at the beginning stages here, You know, and yet it's not going to be perfect, but can we help somebody avoid those landmines?

19:38 - 20:18
JP-Guest: Stop engaging. Right. So like, say you're doing drop off and pickups at, you know, McDonald's parking lots or whatever. And you have a high conflict and your ex is high conflict, right. And they're, every time it's a meltdown in the parking lot, you don't have, you are not legally bound by a wedding ring or a relationship title to sit there and listen to their BS. Put your kids in your car. Say adults don't speak to each other like this. Get in your car and leave. If they want to have meltdowns, they can have meltdowns, but the

20:18 - 20:48
JP-Guest: more times than not, whether it's you, you know, find your triggers. So don't instantly become defensive like I used to, and then send a snooty message back when really the message that came in was about nothing, right? Or if they want to poke, because if they're looking for a certain reaction so that, you know, whether it be they want to be the victim or be able to go run to their family and friends and make you out to be this monster that, Oh my God, you can't, you'll never believe what he's saying about me now or

20:48 - 21:23
JP-Guest: saying to me now or doing to me now The less you give them the reaction that they're looking for the less they're going to come looking for it Because if you're not giving it to them They're going to stop trying to get it And so if they're throwing gas on the fire and every time they throw gas, you throw water, they're going to quit throwing gas on it. Cause it's not doing anything. They're not getting the, the reaction that they want. Yeah. And also set, express, explain, communicate, and hold clear and hard boundaries. All right, so

21:23 - 21:42
JP-Guest: like set boundaries, but just as important as setting boundaries, you have to Communicate those boundaries to somebody else because the nobody's a mind reader Just because you set the boundary doesn't mean that they understand that that is a boundary anymore Yeah, because if you don't communicate that these are my boundaries that I'm not gonna be talked to this way Yeah,

21:42 - 21:42
Cheryl-Host: you know

21:42 - 22:18
JP-Guest: what I mean, but also if you're in a conflict place You're gonna get a lot farther with positive reinforcement than you are with negative reinforcement. So instead of, you know, I use the drop off pickup thing a lot because usually that's, that's a pretty common place and in a situation where a lot of these things either go really smooth or really, really explosive. But if 1 parent, you know, say the dad's always late picking them up or, you know, meeting you to drop them off or, you know, vice versa, whichever 1, instead of having a snooty

22:18 - 22:45
JP-Guest: remark because they're late and having a big blow up about it because oh my God, well, I had to stop and get, you know, whatever, you know, the excuses and then you go back forth instead of falling into a place where they're going to be defensive and just shut down because maybe you've nagged them for the last 5 years. Yeah. The time that they show up on time. I really appreciate it when you show up, when you're, when you're on time and we can do this really smoothly and you respect my time and I'm not sitting

22:45 - 23:22
JP-Guest: here waiting for you or you're waiting for me, you know, and, and, you know, I really, you know, thank you for being on time. And they're going to, you know, and it's just easier. I mean, you know, cause obviously if you're in a high conflict place and you've been doing it for years, the nagging, picking, poking, prodding, belittling, it's not getting you anywhere. It's not moving you forward. It's not making things more civil or collaborative. So sometimes to get a better outcome on in the same negotiation, you just change your tactic and go from a different

23:22 - 23:28
JP-Guest: angle. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't work, but it's not going to hurt. It's not going to make it any worse if you're in a conflict place.

23:29 - 23:37
Cheryl-Host: And You have an audience in the backseat. You have an audience watching this all play out. And teaching

23:37 - 23:39
JP-Guest: your kids how to interact with other adults.

23:39 - 24:13
Cheryl-Host: Yeah and I also think that you are making them feel a certain loyalty to the other parent. You know, like if mom's hammering on dad, then I think the kids are like, but that's my dad. That's my dad and vice versa. So you, you know, I think if you always remember that you have an audience and if you think that if you think that you're battling in front of your kids is going to make your kids side with you or agree with the divorce it's not happening don't even think about it

24:13 - 24:38
JP-Guest: well then also if you go 1 step further and this is where this is, this is something I bring up a lot and it catches a lot of people off guard because they don't even like, it's not something that you would, you would comprehend, but you go 1 step farther and you get done with the big blow up like that and a big argument and you get in the car and you're bad mouth and say the dad, you know, that piece of POS, he's always late. He's never on time. God, he's a dirt bag. Dut da,

24:38 - 24:45
JP-Guest: dut da, dut. The back seat, we feel like they are 50% mom, 50% dad. And so you were sitting there just,

24:45 - 24:46
Cheryl-Host: I say that

24:46 - 24:49
JP-Guest: mentally and emotionally. I know what I mean.

24:49 - 25:17
Cheryl-Host: Yeah. I have said literally that verbatim since we separated there 50% dad, which means they're 50% asshole. If I say that not happening. And I'm so agree. I can't agree more about that. I just, I just, It makes me crazy when I hear that going on. It's so funny. That's exactly what I say. 50% it threw me off. But it's true. It's true. And kids think

25:17 - 25:51
JP-Guest: that way. I mean, they, you know, but even my daughter being 9 years old, she probably, you know, DNA genes and all that stuff, yeah, she's 50, you know, half and a half. She's half my DNA, half her mom's DNA, but she's a hundred percent her own person. Right. But you know, I probably couldn't comprehend that I was my own person until I was close to 20 years old. You know what I mean? And so the identity, you know, you start running into these weird, you know, and it's going to get worse because the divorce rates

25:51 - 26:18
JP-Guest: and single parenthood and all of these things are just going, you know, climbing, but you run into these situations where when the kids are really little, you don't think that they understand. And there were a lot more perceptive than a lot of people want to give them credit for. And they don't, or you don't think they're paying attention, even knowing you're you're bad mouthing dad to your mom and at the table and they're sitting there watching Spongebob or Bluey 10 feet away.

26:19 - 26:20
Cheryl-Host: Yeah. I'm

26:20 - 26:31
JP-Guest: sure they're not looking at you or part of the conversation, but they're still hearing and interpreting everything that you're saying. But also your kids, you know, your kids didn't choose to be born. You chose to have the kids.

26:31 - 26:32
Cheryl-Host: Yes.

26:32 - 26:39
JP-Guest: And you didn't have kids and they didn't sign up to be weapons or spies. You know what I mean?

26:39 - 26:41
Cheryl-Host: Yeah. So my God, yes.

26:41 - 27:10
JP-Guest: But also the, the identity crisis that's going to form out of this, of these scenarios, because they got to be this person at mom's house. Yeah. They can't love dad. They can't act like they like dad. They got to be this complete, this completely false person. That's not even them to appease mom and play this role so that mom loves me and doesn't get mad that I love my dad and da da da da da possibly same thing at dad's house. You know, I can't act. I can't express my love for mom. You know, I act

27:10 - 27:38
JP-Guest: like I don't want to talk to her even though she has court ordered phone calls or whatever, you know, because it's an inconvenience for dad or dad's got some hang up because she's able to call or ask them, you know, whatever and you know, whatever the case may be. So then they're split between these 2 identities that aren't even theirs grow up never knowing who they are college or, or try to be an adult, but they don't even have an identity because they've never been allowed to be who they are. I have a weird hang up

27:38 - 28:10
JP-Guest: too with anybody that says mini me about their kids, like women, you know what I mean? Like, have you seen that around a lot? Like, yeah. And it's like, you're basically telling your kid that they're not allowed to be anything other than a small version of you. And so they can't be themselves. So if you're super girly as a mom and your mini me is naturally going to be more of a tomboy, But you dress her like a mini version of you, instead of letting them develop and become who they are and want to be. Then

28:11 - 28:22
JP-Guest: when they're out of your control, 18, 19, 20 years old, that's when you see these kids like freak out and go way overboard because they have they don't know who they are.

28:23 - 29:05
Cheryl-Host: Yeah. Yeah. Whole point of us being authentic so they can be authentic is 100%. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, any of these, you know, like you said, we chose to have children. Also, we chose to divorce. So, you know, I have a big thing even when we're having, you know, family Thanksgiving, Christmas, blah, blah, blah. And you know, they can go there, they can go there, they can go here. And I always say, I don't care if it's February that we're celebrating Christmas, you have your own lives, you do your own thing, and

29:05 - 29:35
Cheryl-Host: we just get together. And I think it's so detrimental when the kids, most kids are now excited Christmas is coming and they're excited their birthday's coming. But if you're in this kind of conflict, you don't kind of stress you're causing your kid because, Oh my God, what are they going to say? Who's going to get me here? Who's going to do this? And who's going to buy the best birthday present, blah, blah, blah. And they had no option in this. And I think keeping that forefront, like any of your decisions, any of your, you know, and

29:35 - 29:41
Cheryl-Host: I find too, that some parents are using their kids as their confidant.

29:42 - 29:45
JP-Guest: Right, right. Your kids, not your therapist or friend.

29:45 - 29:48
Cheryl-Host: Yeah. And how much should they know about the details of this?

29:48 - 30:30
JP-Guest: Age appropriate, but really not. Yeah. Yeah. Your kids aren't your, and then, yeah. And you start, you know, there's starting to be these newer, some defects of, of, you know, outside of the statistical data of being raised by, you know, only 1 parent or the other, especially, you know, there's more data, obviously, with just single moms, you know, as far as suicide rates, dropout rates, teen pregnancy, 85% of the prisoners in the United States prison systems were raised by fatherless homes and all of these, I mean, there's all these statistics, but you have the, these newer,

30:30 - 31:15
JP-Guest: you know, maybe the last 5, 10 years of son husbands and daughters, like, sort of like daughter sisters with, with some of these and, and because the custody and the, and all these things, you know, obviously more women have the custody than the men. So some of the data or some of these, these things, but like you got these younger guys that basically become their mother's support systems and never leave home, but also are sort of, you know, less the less lesser masculine stereotypical men because they've sort of had to be their mom's emotional support boyfriend

31:15 - 31:48
JP-Guest: since they were 12 years old. Yeah. And then, then when they get to adult age, they don't leave because they can't leave mom home alone, you know, out of guilt or whatever. And so they end up sort of trapped. But then also if they do find a mate or girlfriends, nobody's good enough for my son. And the mothers are super involved because they don't have their own life, right? Because they've, they've, they've crutched their sons to be there, you know, quote unquote, you know, boyfriend more or less, or husband, you know, son husbands. And then the

31:48 - 32:22
JP-Guest: daughters get kind of a, in the same situation, but they get turned into mom's BFF at 13, 14 years old and confident. And you got them sort of 5 year old, 12 year old, has no filter and dumps all of her emotional baggage and all of her venting and all of these things. And so you're running into these weird, these sort of weird personalities or social constructs that are kind of starting to form out of some of these things. And it's, and it's kind of scary because, you know, outside of certain scenarios and certain types of

32:22 - 32:56
JP-Guest: things, you, kids need both parents, you know, and then you get a lot of these, well, what about a step parent? Well, step parent is a person, but they, you know, if a woman gets remarried and that's the father figure more times than not, he's got all the responsibility with no, none of the authority. And so it's not a, it's not their dad. You know what I mean? Like he doesn't have the same, you know, influence to teach his daughters how to be ladies or teach the sons how to be men. Because anytime that he would

32:56 - 33:20
JP-Guest: try to be an authoritarian figure, you get that, well, you're not going to talk to my son that way. You're not going to talk to my daughter that way. I don't have to listen to you. You're not my dad. And then mom backs up the kid. You're not talking to my kids that way. You're not their father, you know, that to boost up. And so you're not getting the same influence that you do from having both of your parents involved. Yeah. And it's sad that even with a lot of this data and a lot of these

33:20 - 33:51
JP-Guest: statistics You know here in the US and probably not that much different in Canada, you know for the most part. Yeah That you know in some of those situations with you know, I don't want to say super toxic, but or not maybe not consciously toxic mothers But like the ones that are sort of in these situations You don't have dad there to keep mom in check. Yeah and say this is inappropriate You know what? I mean your daughter's 16. She doesn't need her boyfriend is not staying over You know what? I mean like and it's and

33:51 - 34:17
JP-Guest: it's wild how like socially acceptable this seems to be the direction it's going. Like a 14 year old needs to be dressing and acting like she's 25 because mom allows her and then doesn't want to go to dad's house because there's structure there. You know what I mean? I don't want to make it seem one-sided because there's a lot of dads that don't give a shit either. And so the kids want to go to dad's house because dad lets me do whatever I want because He leaves all weekend and goes to his girlfriends. And there's a

34:17 - 34:49
JP-Guest: lot of those situations as well. But you know, if you don't have both parents on the same page, chaos and chaos, just like drugs or alcohol, you can be addicted to chaos or anxiety or stress. And so Even knowing the kids get out of those homes go to college I'm not big proponent of college but move out and start being an adult and having life if they're addicted to chaos and Conflict then those are the relationships they're going to seek out. They don't have their dad around. They're going to seek out distant men as relationship partners

34:49 - 35:21
JP-Guest: because that's what they know. That's what they've learned. So you get a lot of these personality traits and tendencies and habits that are being formed when they're 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 years old that are going to track them until they're 50 and go to therapy when they get tired of, you know, they're on their fourth marriage and 5 kids with 4 guys or 4 baby mamas because they, you know, as soon as it gets real and they leave, you know what I mean? I mean, there's 2 sides, you know, on both ways, but it's getting

35:21 - 35:22
JP-Guest: really kind of scary.

35:22 - 36:02
Cheryl-Host: Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah, I couldn't agree more. I guess we need to wrap up soon. So what I want to say is from what I'm understanding, even from our conversation, First of all, the mic drop for me was They're not your ex Your kids parent which I think is a great Mindshift set like honestly, I think if you can really buy into that because that's accurate. I think that's a great mind shift. And so as a single parent, what inner work are you doing? What are you doing to stay balanced, stability, your own, keeping your own,

36:02 - 36:13
Cheryl-Host: like, what are you doing for yourself that we can offer other single dads who are out there going, I'm just trying to do this and I'm just trying to do that. Or, or single moms doesn't matter.

36:14 - 36:52
JP-Guest: I live a simple life in a rural area without a lot of, you know, and it's, it's a life I choose in life. I enjoy, but mindfulness training is a big part of my life, which is, you know, the meditating awareness, being present, being present all the time, which is, you know, leads into, you know, I live, I live my life by what I call, I live my life by the rule of 5 So if I won't remember it in 5 years, I won't spend more than 5 seconds thinking about it right now, which alleviates a

36:52 - 37:16
JP-Guest: lot of anxiety and really gets rid of dwelling on the past because you know, instantly, you know, if it's going to be something that it's important And if I'm not, if it's not going to be on my radar in a couple of years, I'm not going to spend more than just a few minutes thinking about it or worrying about it or dwelling on it, you know, because the past is the past, but also the awareness, becoming aware of what you're allowing to brainwash you on a daily basis, because how you do 1 thing is how you

37:16 - 37:47
JP-Guest: do everything. And you were the average of the 5 people you spend the most time around, whether it be watching major news media, 24 hours a day, the podcast you listen to music, you listen to people, you talk to work, the people you follow on social media, plus family, friends, kids, da da da da da. And so you're, you're basically being brainwashed all time. So I don't watch TV, hardly at all. Like if I know that I'll like a show or something, like I'll watch a little bit of TV, mostly kids shows, movies, but I would

37:47 - 38:21
JP-Guest: rather grow and learn. And I truly believe that everybody's doing the best they can with the tools that they have. And so the more tools I can add, then even better I can be. And so I listen to about 60, 65 audio books a year because I don't watch TV and I don't, I don't numb myself with either exaggerated perceptions of reality, you know, whether it be sitcom shows or news, you know what I mean? It's all, I mean, you, you, you know, if you really want to be bombed and sort of depressed and watch the

38:21 - 38:50
JP-Guest: news and watch TV. So I listen to a lot of audiobooks and then I'm just aware of the things that I absorb day in and day out what I interpret because it changes your mood. So if you wake up in a, you know, gratitude's a big deal. I wake up in a funk. I, you know, I got a playlist that on Spotify that I, with a bunch of songs that I know put me in a good mood. Yeah. And that, that play, that's, that goes on. So I want to do some deep thinking stuff like that.

38:50 - 39:00
JP-Guest: I, you know, I drive a lot for work. So I have the opportunity to listen to audio books pretty much all day at work and all afternoon. So it's easy for me to consume a lot of audio books, But

39:00 - 39:01
Cheryl-Host: yeah, you

39:01 - 39:33
JP-Guest: know, trying to grow, trying to expand and just being aware of, you know, the more that you're aware, the more you're aware of what you're saying, your facial expressions, the way you treat other people, the way that you react to your ex or the way that you react to your kids, because that's the only thing that you could really control. You know, your kid says that mom was talking about you and saying all these things and it's like, you can be aware of your hurt feelings and wanting to react, but if you stay who you are,

39:33 - 40:02
JP-Guest: it all comes out in the wash. If you never throw a fit for 10 years and the other parents always have high conflict with everybody that they deal with at the soccer games and the school and yelling at principals and conflict with teachers, it doesn't matter what the other parent says about you because everybody knows the truth Your actions are always louder than any words but if you start reacting and exploding and and Acting out of character or not aware that that you don't need to have a reaction to these things than you are being the

40:02 - 40:06
JP-Guest: person that they're saying you are, whether that's really you or not.

40:07 - 40:16
Cheryl-Host: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny, I have a playlist on Spotify, it's actually called Raise My Frequency. And it's my dance party every morning. Right?

40:16 - 40:19
JP-Guest: Well, it's just little things. I mean, it's just little things.

40:19 - 40:51
Cheryl-Host: It is. It is. And it's not overnight. I think I, what I've noticed with this kind of work is like, it's almost an afterthought where I would say, Hey, that didn't, that didn't bother me at all. Or I was able to just go, that's okay. Like I was, it just, it's these little tiny things and we have all of these tools within us. We have them all. They're all free. They're all free. We don't have to go to, I mean, there's nothing wrong with therapy, but you know, there's coaches like you, and then there's, you know,

40:51 - 40:57
Cheryl-Host: tools that we can put into place that I think are so important. And what an example you set for your little girl. That's awesome.

40:58 - 41:28
JP-Guest: I love it. It's true. It's, It's like, you know, working on yourself, mental health, getting through depression, getting through tough situations or any of these things. I mean, you're doing it consistently for the rest of your life. And the more that you can just register that, that there's no fixed, you know what I mean? There's no end. You're not hiking for the day to the Grand Canyon and back. You know, I mean, Nobody's nobody's nobody who is working out to to be healthier gets to a point of healthiness where they're just like I don't have to

41:28 - 41:31
JP-Guest: anymore. I'm gonna be like this forever Or you know,

41:31 - 41:33
Cheryl-Host: could you get addicted to how it feels?

41:34 - 42:02
JP-Guest: Right, right. Right. There's no end to it. I mean, if you want to be healthy, you're working out until you don't want to be healthy anymore. And it's, you know, it's not a constant upward climb because there are days where you just are a terror and you can't get out of your own head. And you know, it's not really any different than anything else. There's days where, you know, people diet and diet and diet and lose a bunch of weight. And then they go to an all you can eat buffet and gorgeous themselves for 2 days

42:02 - 42:22
JP-Guest: straight. And then all of a sudden they, they got, you know, 10 more pounds that they just added back on and, and, and it's just, that's the, that's how it is sometimes, but not getting frustrated and giving up is probably the most important part. Cause it's, you know, the better you can be, the better everybody is around you. And if you want things to change you have to be the change Because everybody's going to match you.

42:23 - 42:23
Cheryl-Host: Yeah,

42:23 - 42:28
JP-Guest: so then Then you wanting everybody to change so that it propels you to change.

42:28 - 42:56
Cheryl-Host: Yeah bingo You know what? I I appreciate your your vulnerability and I appreciate the work that you're doing. And someone is going to hear this podcast and they're going to be at the very start of this journey and you are going to change that trajectory for them and their kids. And I think that's so impactful, even if it's just 1 person. So tell us, yeah, tell us how to find you have to work with you. What are all the things JP Marsh?

42:58 - 43:31
JP-Guest: Pretty much just on I mean, Instagram, social media is mentally and emotionally draining for me. I just don't do a lot of it. I mean, if it's not something that's authentically me posting, making posts, doing all these things. But Instagram is usually the place where I direct everybody and then if somebody has questions or wants a, has a, needs a little advice on certain scenarios or wants to get in touch with me, then just Messenger on Instagram is usually the best place to do that.

43:31 - 43:52
Cheryl-Host: Awesome. Well, I'll put all that in the show notes. JP Marsh, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate the work you're doing. It's great. It was great. Thank you for listening to Teen Minds Redefined and we will see you next time. Teen Minds redefined with Cheryl Pankhurst. New episodes out every Wednesday. Thanks for stopping by.