#49-"Breaking the Stigma: Understanding Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD)" with Shannon Butt

Episode Description:

In this enlightening episode of "Teen Minds Redefined," host Cheryl Pankhurst welcomes Shannon Butt, a passionate advocate for individuals with Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD). Shannon shares her personal journey living with FASD and discusses the critical importance of accessibility, inclusivity, and community support in fostering healing and understanding. Listeners will gain insights into the social determinants of health, the impact of addiction, and practical strategies for parents and educators to support children navigating these challenges. Shannon emphasizes the need for open dialogue and healing out loud to prevent suffering in silence. Join us for an inspiring conversation that sheds light on the path to understanding and advocacy for those affected by FASD

Cheryl: Hey, Cheryl here. I just wanted to pop in before you listen to the episode and just let you know that September is a crucial month. It marks Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders Awareness Month. That's FASD. And this is the time to shine a spotlight on the challenges faced by individuals and families affected by FASD and promote our understanding and support within our communities. As my guest Shannon Butt emphasizes, addiction is not preventable. We have to show that this is not their fault. And we need to have compassion and education rather than stigma and blame. And another powerful

00:39 - 01:16
Cheryl: reminder from Shannon in this episode is there's no place for shame and blame and healing. The healing begins with understanding and support, not judgment. As we navigate this important month, we encourage you to share the message, follow our podcast and subscribe to help spread awareness about FASD and all the other challenges that we talk about every week on this show with the most amazing experts. Together, we can create a more inclusive and supportive environment for everyone. You can support and make a real difference in the lives of those affected by FASD. And I thank you for

01:16 - 01:18
Cheryl: being a vital part of this conversation.

01:20 - 01:25
Shannon-Guest: Teen Minds Redefined, you're listening to the podcast with Cheryl Pankhurst.

01:34 - 02:11
Cheryl: Welcome to another episode of Teen Minds Redefined, where we strive to, you know, we can't parent the way we used to parent and our relationships with our teens are going to be different. And so it's time to step up, learn something new and support our kids. We need to coach them, not parent them so that they feel heard, they feel seen. And we raise these amazing human beings into the world. And on today's episode, I am thrilled to welcome Shannon Butt, a movement and meditation facilitator, a public speaker, and an advocate for disability and social justice.

02:12 - 02:51
Cheryl: Shannon brings a unique and powerful perspective as she weaves together her lived experience with fetal alcohol spectrum disorder and her extensive knowledge in social determinants of health. As a changemaker on the Adult Leadership Collaborative Board of Individuals with FASD, Shannon's work shines a light on the critical importance of accessibility and inclusivity in our society. Whether you're a parent or an educator or a community member, this conversation is a must listen if you're passionate about creating a world where everyone can thrive. Welcome Shannon Butt.

02:51 - 02:54
Shannon-Guest: Yay. Hello. Thank you for that.

02:55 - 03:36
Cheryl: I'm so excited. We can start out with your stories. I'm just gonna share Shannon and I met doing hot yoga. Shannon was an instructor and I fell in love with the hot yoga studio because of Shannon. And this is like a whole circle back introduction and there's this evolved, amazing, beautiful Shannon who is now sharing her light and shedding the light on some darkness in other people's worlds from what I understand. So Shannon, Welcome, welcome, welcome. Please start with your story or why your mission. Why are you here?

03:36 - 04:17
Shannon-Guest: I am here. This is this amazing, by the way. I'm here to heal out loud. That is my motto. I think that when we heal ourselves out loud for other people to hear, we prevent other people from suffering in silence. And so I think that is what happens in this world. So many of us are hidden behind our devices or, you know, hermiting in our houses and we feel alone even though there's more connection out there than ever before. We need to learn how to access that connection and we need to know that we're not alone

04:17 - 04:19
Shannon-Guest: in this journey of self healing.

04:20 - 04:35
Cheryl: I love that. Heal out loud is beautiful. It's so clear. It's so clear. I love that motto. So I just want to say, Let's start with you and your experience with FASD.

04:38 - 05:20
Shannon-Guest: What is FASD? What is fetal alcohol spectrum disorder? FASD or yes, fetal alcohol spectrum disorder is, it's a brain injury, essentially. It's a traumatic brain injury. And it's not just a brain injury, it's a whole body diagnosis. And so I think initially it was thought to be to be just a brain injury but it is it is goes throughout the whole body I have issues with my whole body so it is a disability like many other disabilities and it has overlaps with like autism and ADHD. Like if you were to put them all on a Venn

05:20 - 06:04
Shannon-Guest: diagram, there's a lot of overlap there. And it prevents people from being able to live a full life. And it happens when the babies are in the womb. And I hate that there's so much stigma around it, but so many people don't even know that they're pregnant when they consume alcohol. We live in a society where we're not very in touch with our bodies and drinking your face off is just a normal part of everyday life. And I think I think people get a really bad rap. But what's happening is that like you can go to

06:04 - 06:41
Shannon-Guest: say it's Christmas time and You go to 2 parties you just head up 2 parties and you have a couple glasses of wine at each party There are you know a week apart And then you know after New Year's you find out that you're 3 months pregnant. Well, you know, you haven't done anything maliciously. You were just out enjoying your life, but now that damage might be done. So there's a lot of people that don't understand how FASD happens. But there are also a lot of mothers that are drinking to cope with life and then they

06:41 - 07:25
Shannon-Guest: continue drinking through pregnancy. And so like we need help for all of these people. But it starts basically the alcohol effects. Whatever is developing that day, like I know in pregnancy, it's very like specific, like this develops in the first trimester, and this develops in the second trimester. And so like whatever is developing on that day is, is the alcohol interferes with the creation of whatever is being created that day. So I have a lot of like jaw and ear stuff. I have a lot of jaw and ear stuff. I have issues. Oh, I meant to

07:25 - 07:49
Shannon-Guest: grab my journal. I have issues with executive functioning. I have issues with memory. I have issues with behavior and impulsivity. There's a lot going on there. And then I've got like chronic fatigue and like fibromyalgia and depression and anxiety and complex PTSD. And there's a whole lot that's happening at once.

07:50 - 08:04
Cheryl: I have no idea about that piece of it. Whatever is developing that day is affected. Yeah. So, there's no safe time. There's no

08:04 - 08:05
Shannon-Guest: safe time

08:05 - 08:07
Cheryl: to have a drink while you're pregnant.

08:07 - 08:09
Shannon-Guest: No, not even consumption.

08:10 - 08:22
Cheryl: Is it just alcohol? Is this a, is this a myth? Is it, is it just in the name or is it just alcohol? Does it have anything to do with smoking weed or any other recreational drugs?

08:22 - 08:37
Shannon-Guest: I believe it's called something different when it's a different drug. I know that the overlying diagnosis would be complex neurodevelopment disorder.

08:37 - 09:01
Cheryl: Okay. So my experience and the reason I like, I want teachers listening to this as well is as a spec ed specialist, I oversaw a number of kids with disabilities and very seldom did I have, maybe I had 5 diagnosed FASD kids. I'm quite sure there's more.

09:01 - 09:02
Shannon-Guest: Oh yeah.

09:03 - 09:30
Cheryl: But I only had 5 that I can recall. And, you know, it was so hard because it's so hard to explain to teachers. You know, kids walk into their room, They call in their own diagnosis and that's how they work with the kids. If a kid walks into our classroom, let's say you walk in as a high school student, FASD diagnosed, what 2 things you wish your teacher would do, know, say?

09:32 - 10:00
Shannon-Guest: That's a really great question. I wish that I had more one-on-one time. I wish that I had more one-on-one time. I wish that I wish that I I had more one-on-one time with a teacher or with a special ed. I wasn't diagnosed until just a couple of years ago. So I actually fell through the cracks of our health care system and our school system and I never had a teacher that noticed how much help I was actually needing and this the school system and the health care system failed me.

10:01 - 10:05
Cheryl: Wow didn't realize that's how late you were diagnosed.

10:05 - 10:08
Shannon-Guest: Yeah, just about 2 and a half years ago.

10:08 - 10:10
Cheryl: So what brought that on? What?

10:12 - 10:55
Shannon-Guest: So I've, I've always had trouble. I've been doing therapy and seeing a counselor since I've been in grade 8. We thought it was, I've been diagnosed with everything under the sun. And well, I guess I had a lot of, and very like on par for folks with FASD, I had like a lot of successes in my life, and then a lot of like big crashes. Because it's just like I couldn't keep up with the good things that were happening around me and then everything would just fall apart. So I ended up living a life of addiction.

10:56 - 11:34
Shannon-Guest: I was addicted to cocaine, I was addicted to alcohol, And I started doing sex work to pay for my habits because I also kept getting fired from my jobs, which is also on par for folks with FASD. And then I kind of staged my own intervention with my family. I was really just like sick of my behavior and sick of the life that I was living and felt like I couldn't claw my way up to the top and I was drowning. And So I sat down with my family and said like, I am, this is what's

11:34 - 12:15
Shannon-Guest: happening in my life and I really need your help to get out of it. So they did help me and my stepmom, thank God, was like you working for the school board for like in specifically with kids in special education. And she noticed that these kids behaved the same way that I did. And she was like, wow, these kids have FASD. I wonder if Shannon could have FASD. She went and talked to my dad, asked if there could have been alcohol while I was in the womb. And the answer was without a doubt, yes. Just from

12:15 - 12:51
Shannon-Guest: the lifestyle that my parents were living, partying in the military and so on. And so that's how the journey started. So I wish someone noticed me in high school. I wish someone said, yeah, well, like she shines when people work with her one-on-one like or she needs to stand up every 20 minutes and just walk around the classroom or maybe we should get our standing desk or just like a couple things like that.

12:52 - 13:06
Cheryl: Yeah. And you know how there's different characteristics of FASD. The 1 I know well is a facial characteristic. I don't see that.

13:06 - 13:23
Shannon-Guest: No, so actually that is the, people think that's the number 1 defining factor. It's like the least defining factor. A very small percentage of people with FASD have the facial features. A very small percent. Which speaks

13:23 - 13:29
Cheryl: to, if it's the facial features being developed when the alcohol goes in the system.

13:29 - 13:29
Shannon-Guest: Right.

13:29 - 13:58
Cheryl: Exactly. Wow. Well, there's a mic drop for me. Like, seriously. Yeah. Huh. Okay. So tell me then, stint your diagnosis, like, how did that change your perspective on disability? And how does it change your, your activity on, on, like social justice? Like, how did that shift for you? On a personal level first, like, How did that feel when they finally said, this is it?

14:01 - 14:38
Shannon-Guest: It felt more than 1 way for sure. It felt, like I have, like I said, I've been given so many diagnoses over my, over my life and every 1 of them was just like, no, that's not it. That doesn't feel right. That doesn't click. There's too many things outside of the box. And then this 1 finally was like, oh, this, this checks all of the boxes, this feels like it fits. So There was a sense of relief that I finally figured out what it was and it was like I could move on now that I, you

14:38 - 15:19
Shannon-Guest: know, 30 years I've been trying to figure this out. So there was definitely a sense of relief. There was also a sense of, I felt like my life was over. Like I was like, oh my God, I'm a person with a disability and I've always been a person with a disability and I'm never gonna be successful. I'm always gonna have this struggle. And that speaks to my own ableism and like my own internalized ableism and what I think about people who have disabilities. And do I think that they can live a quote unquote normal life? And

15:20 - 16:01
Shannon-Guest: so I had to like face all of my own internalized ableism around disability. And I'm still doing that work, absolutely, trying to figure out what a life looks like as a person with a disability. You know, I even still struggle to say that I'm a disabled person. Like I know that it's person language first, so a person with a disability, but I think because I struggle to say this, but I think because I don't look like I have a disability and then that brings in, okay, well, what does it look like to have a disability? And

16:01 - 16:05
Shannon-Guest: then that brings in this, it looks like this.

16:06 - 16:06
Cheryl: Yeah.

16:07 - 16:20
Shannon-Guest: And so it's just there's a lot of internal internalized ableism that I'm fighting. There's a lot of there's a lot of feelings around it. There's a lot of learning and unlearning. It's been wild.

16:21 - 16:40
Cheryl: Yeah. I just want to go back a step or 2, because I'd love to know what you think the most common misconceptions are about FASD and how we can say to a parent or an educator, no that's not the way it

16:41 - 17:27
Shannon-Guest: is. So the facial features would be 1. The other 1 would be, have you heard of the word confabulation? I have not. So it's it happens with people with FASD and what it is is it's a it's a solidifying of memory But it's like you experience something and then you solidify that experience as memory. But what happens for the person with FASD is that they experience it and remember it in a different way. And that solidifies as memory. So they often are getting blamed for lying when they're not lying. So this is a huge thing. It

17:27 - 17:57
Shannon-Guest: happens to me all the time. And like, it's probably happened to you a couple of times in your life where you're like, oh no, I think I was wearing a purple shirt that day. And somebody's like, no, it was definitely a green shirt. And you're like, I don't know. I have to look up the photo and maybe you were wrong, but it happens all the time to me. Like just the other day I was getting ready for a market. I go, I sell some art at markets sometimes. And it was a market that my friend and

17:57 - 18:24
Shannon-Guest: I had done a year previous. And so we were planning this second year. And she goes, we should bring 2 tents so that we have 2 tents beside 1 another instead of sharing 1 tent. And I was like, well, that's what we did last year. We had 2 tents last year. And she was like, no, we didn't. And I was like, yes, we did. I was so positive. So we had to look up photos and sure as shit. She was the right 1. I was wrong but that is confabulation where you're like You're like no, I

18:24 - 18:33
Shannon-Guest: remember this thing and I I would I would lay my life down on the line for this memory It is so solidified in my brain, but it's wrong.

18:34 - 19:13
Cheryl: Well, you know what? This now jogs me back to the kids that I knew that were diagnosed and I was trying to explain to teachers. It's not on purpose. They're not manipulating. They're not lying. And is this where you understand, and I only use the analogy of hand on the stove, the consequence. I put my hand on the stove, burn my hand, I take my hand off, I'm never going to do that again. Yeah. But a kid with FASD will just continue to put their hand on the stove. They don't want to get burned on purpose.

19:13 - 19:16
Shannon-Guest: No, but they don't. That's 1 of the consequences. Thank

19:16 - 19:17
Cheryl: you.

19:17 - 19:17
Shannon-Guest: Yeah.

19:17 - 20:01
Cheryl: Thank you. Oh my goodness, that just opens up, you know, and more people need to hear this because even the 200 teachers in the school, I had just such difficulty trying to get them to understand because, you know, there was a facial there was a facial characteristic on this 1 young man, but there was just let me give you an example. He could be in a classroom with his Chromebook. This is high school. And he could hack into the teacher's Chromebook, get the credit card and shop on Amazon while he was in the class. Now that

20:01 - 20:25
Cheryl: is a skill. But you know, so now, so this is where teachers go, oh, they're not stupid. They're smart. They can, they're just manipulating. They're just this. They're just that. Shut this light, Shannon, because we know this, nobody wants to do these things in any diagnosis. So shed some light on this for us. Could you?

20:25 - 21:15
Shannon-Guest: It's really normal for kids with neurodevelopment disorders or like FASD to be really successful in some areas and then really like unskilled in other areas. So for example when I was getting my testing done I scored in the 97th percentile in vocabulary. I have a university level vocabulary and I scored in the first percentile in math. So there are some really disparaging results that are happening that are in my brain. And it makes me seem really, I can, I can hold a conversation, I seem smart on the outside, but I'm really struggling with things on the

21:15 - 21:47
Shannon-Guest: inside? I struggle to tell time. I can't read the face of a clock still, you know, stuff like that, where, you know, somebody's like, Hey, can you tell me the time and I have to look at like, I remember in event management, they were like, you have to wear a watch. Like you absolutely have to know the time at all times. And I was so embarrassed because I was going to have to get a digital watch because I struggle still to tell the time on the face of the clock. Like just little things like that.

21:47 - 22:13
Cheryl: Yeah, yeah. Let's go to, let's talk about, okay, and there's, I'm going to talk about first the shame. Like, how do we talk to the mom or the dad who knows better about, oh, this could actually be what's wrong, but I did it because I drank, so I'm not saying anything. Right. Let's go there.

22:14 - 23:03
Shannon-Guest: Well, first we have to stop. So when I first started doing advocacy work in with FASD, I used to hear all the time, FASD is the only totally preventable neurodevelopment disorder. Like it's totally preventable. You just don't drink. But that's not the case because that's not our society. Our society doesn't welcome you in to a non-alcoholic environment. So we have to stop saying that it's completely preventable because it's not. Addiction is not preventable. It is what it is. And so we have to stop saying that for 1. For 2, Sorry, can you repeat the question?

23:04 - 23:22
Cheryl: Yeah, I'm talking about if you're wondering, if you know that you have a child or an adult child who's struggling and this could be the issue, but there's some shame in admitting to this. Where do we go with that?

23:23 - 23:59
Shannon-Guest: Oh, man, it's such a tough question. And I really feel for these moms, I do. Like my own mom, She doesn't like to talk about it. She, you know, as soon as I bring it up, we're changing the conversation. I just keep telling her that I'm not mad at her. You know, Gabor Mate says there's no place for shame in healing. And I would say there's no place for shame or blame in healing. I don't even know how to have that conversation. It has to be without anger, it has to be without malice, it has to

23:59 - 24:39
Shannon-Guest: be without blame. And we have to show that it's not their fault. Like we have to show that addiction is this own separate issue. The social determinants of health is this own separate issue. You know, if people don't have access to safe housing and clean drinking water and the opportunity to get a job and provide for their families, then they're just going to keep doing what they're doing. And if that is drinking, then they're if they're we have, we have to help people in more ways than this to get this message across.

24:39 - 25:23
Cheryl: Yeah, and it feels like it just needs to be drilled right down. Yeah. We're right here with, you know, diagnosing and looking at, but it's drilled right down. And I think that the whole addiction piece is such an important conversation. It feels like this is gonna be a sequel. So let's talk about parents who are wondering what would they be looking for? What would they be, you know, looking at report cards? What would they be looking at behavior? What would they, if they, you know, we went through, like you said, we went through the ADHD assessments,

25:23 - 25:31
Cheryl: we went through the ASD assessments, what would we be looking for where they might go? I need to go further with this.

25:32 - 26:19
Shannon-Guest: So in terms of report cards, I'd be looking for like a high score in some areas and then like really low scores in other areas. So for me, like with English and math, you know, pretty average marks in like arts, arts and English, and then pretty low marks in science and math. A lot of skipping school, just because I was surely overwhelmed with it. In terms of behavior, incredibly impulsive, making big life changing decisions in the sweep of an arm. Like I'm going to move to Calgary. Oh, I'm going to move to Newfoundland. I'm going to

26:19 - 27:09
Shannon-Guest: get married. The confabulation, like I mentioned, if you feel like your kid is lying to you, but you don't feel like it's lying. It could be confabulation. Let's see here. Oh, with their movements. So, okay, so The senses, there's like, we have 5 senses, but we have more than 5 senses because we have interoception, which is like sensing like when your bladder is full or sensing when you have to go to the bathroom. So those senses can be off. So you can, you know, maybe your kid is in high school, but still wetting the bed. Maybe

27:09 - 27:43
Shannon-Guest: they are having trouble. I developed an eating disorder really young because I couldn't stop eating. I would just like binge and binge and binge because I didn't have an off switch. I'm still struggling with that to this day. Vestibular movements and proprioception. So like Maybe they walk into walls or like when they're walking through the classroom, they're constantly hitting themselves on the edge of desks and and like bumping into door frames, not quite making it through.

27:43 - 27:46
Cheryl: Do you know what I mean? Yeah, almost like a spatial awareness

27:47 - 27:54
Shannon-Guest: A spatial awareness, yeah, yeah. Okay. Shitty spatial awareness. Wow.

27:54 - 27:55
Cheryl: Yeah.

27:57 - 28:43
Shannon-Guest: Temperature, sense of like sexual arousal, and then affective emotions like jealousy, love, rage, like are those things happening? Like I felt emotions. So I shouldn't say felt. I feel emotions so intensely. They feel like they're going to take over my body. I have had like friendships end because I just couldn't sit down and have a conversation. I couldn't be criticized. I couldn't have somebody say to me like hey, I didn't like that thing you did. I'd be like, oh well Then we're not friends anymore friendship is over and very very dramatic Yeah Yeah, wow

28:44 - 28:59
Cheryl: That's that's really informative and interesting because you know, like I said, I think people just have their Google, their Google description of what it is, and then don't go any farther.

28:59 - 29:00
Shannon-Guest: No.

29:00 - 29:28
Cheryl: And I think there's so many more people that have an undiagnosed FASD in this world. I truly do. So what is the treatment? Is there a treatment? Is like, how do you go forward? I've got this diagnosis, I'm 30 years old, or I'm 19 years old, or I'm 12 years old, whatever. How what's the next right step for me?

29:31 - 30:12
Shannon-Guest: Well, with my privileged lens, I would say therapy with an FASD specialist. But like I said, that's a that's a privileged lens and not everybody has access to that. Yeah. So any any sort of like group that you could join that has other people with FASD, meet other people with FASD. Like 100% just start to get that awareness of like, I'm not alone in this. This is not 1 of those things where you stick out from the crowd. Like there are lots of us here, you're not alone. Therapy, if you can. Medication is, there is like

30:12 - 30:43
Shannon-Guest: a medication, What's the word that I'm looking for? Algorithm. And so you can talk to your doctor about that or talk to a psychiatrist about that. It's like medication for like mood, like stabilizers is really helpful. I guess I wish I had something to say other than get a therapist because that, that is what really helped me. But I know that like so many people don't have access to therapy.

30:43 - 30:59
Cheryl: Yeah, yeah. So if we could, if we could talk to teachers or even parents, how would we create a more inclusive classroom or a more inclusive home for kids who have a disability? That's a

30:59 - 31:56
Shannon-Guest: really good question. That's a really good question. I would have wanted parents that talked to me a lot kinder. I felt like my parents needed their own therapy. You know, like they were dealing with their own childhood traumas. And my dad was dealing with military PTSD and my mom was an alcoholic. And so like they needed help for those things before I was going to get any help in the household. So this is when it comes back down to like, just having environments where like, parents don't feel like they're drowning and then also trying to parent

31:56 - 31:57
Shannon-Guest: a kid with a disability.

31:59 - 32:40
Cheryl: Yeah. I feel like, you know, and I say this all the time in the podcast is, you know, I started off this podcast with here are some strategies for this diagnosis for your kid or this diagnosis for your kid or how to advocate at school. And the more we talk and you just completely framed it, if something is triggering in the home, we have to look here first. We can't, and strategies are amazing and you're giving us great strategies, but they can also just be a bandaid for now as opposed to doing this inner work for

32:40 - 32:51
Cheryl: ourselves. And when we do that work ourselves, how'd you how'd you seen your mom and dad doing the work. Yes. Oh, that might have changed things for you.

32:51 - 32:51
Shannon-Guest: It might

32:51 - 32:52
Cheryl: have changed.

32:52 - 33:25
Shannon-Guest: And it wasn't until, sorry to interrupt you, it really wasn't until my parents started doing that work that we were able to have a healthy relationship. And we like came into therapy together and we did group family sessions and they did therapy on their own and they met with an FASD specialist on their own so they could understand my behavior better. And we implemented things like a communication station in the house so that we weren't talking face to face because that's when emotions would blow up. We have a little station where we write things down on

33:25 - 33:45
Shannon-Guest: pretty little pieces of paper and with pretty colorful pens. And we all went to therapy. And only after that was I able to like, I moved in with them. I live in a basement apartment in their house. We get along so much better. But that has taken years.

33:48 - 34:10
Cheryl: Well, let's hope we are collapsing some time here. Yeah. Honestly. So, can we talk about the importance of community support? Where can parents go? Like are there resources out there besides just googling FASD people like like let's let's give them the shortcut where do we find these resources?

34:11 - 35:04
Shannon-Guest: I would check out a website or a woman her name is Angela Geddes And she's created a book for parents and people with FASD. And I think she's actually working on a second 1 right now. And she has so many resources on her website for parents. So I would start there. I would start with her information. There is a group called Health Nexus that has some groups for people with FASD. What's the other 1 called? No, that was Health Nexus. Yes. Yeah, I would start there.

35:04 - 35:12
Cheryl: Okay, I'll put all those in the show notes. So what do you and I know you're speaking on stages now.

35:12 - 35:13
Shannon-Guest: I am.

35:13 - 35:39
Cheryl: Which is phenomenal because who better to help someone that has already been in that situation, I mean, or, or, and still evolving at a, in that situation for sure. What do you see as like, what do you envision for a future of this, of a disability advocacy? Like, what do you see? What do you wish you could just like poof, wave my magic wand. This would be the dream, the dream world, the dream humanity.

35:40 - 35:46
Shannon-Guest: I would wave my magic wand and give everybody a regulated nervous system.

35:47 - 35:48
Cheryl: Oh, say more.

35:50 - 36:30
Shannon-Guest: I so having a regulated nervous system is just something that our society doesn't really foster. Having a regulated nervous system means that you are not exploding on people when they bring information your way. You're not exploding on somebody when you get cut off in traffic. You're able to maybe sleep and do things like wind down and relax because you have this regulated nervous system. But if you're just constantly running on like in like fight or flight mode, you're not going to get anything successful done. And so if you're in fight or flight and you're trying to

36:30 - 37:09
Shannon-Guest: parent or you're in fight or flight, you're trying to teach kids with FASD. Like you've got to do that work first before it can trickle out because like what's happening is that these kids want to co-regulate their nervous system with you. Like I want my nervous system to to hitch up to your nervous system and say like, this feels really good. I want to I want to feel this way, not not have like a like a riot. And people, you know, like after sports events, when it's just like everybody rides in the streets because like the

37:09 - 37:12
Shannon-Guest: energy is just so crazy as the opposite of what we want.

37:13 - 37:52
Cheryl: Yeah. Yeah. And I've done a ton of this work and I want you to speak to some examples of it, but I will say this that when you are, when you have a, what I feel is a regulated nervous system, it isn't in just internal, it ripples out And when it ripples out, you don't have to say anything. People just feel it. And I was just talking to somebody the other day, last Friday, I had 1 of those days where it was like, everything was going wrong, literally menial things. Nobody died. But it was, you know,

37:52 - 38:13
Cheryl: the train came and it was 22 minutes late. And then I did this terrible appointment and just went on and on and on and on. And it started at 8 in the morning and I got home at 3 and I was like, Holy shit, this works because I was fine. I wasn't, it did not affect. It was like I had this bubble around me

38:13 - 38:14
Shannon-Guest: and

38:14 - 38:34
Cheryl: everything was just kind of bouncing off And what I noticed is I've been doing this work for literally years. And it wasn't, it's not like, oh, somebody just turned on the light. It's like later on, you notice, you just notice, oh, I wonder how I would have reacted before I

38:34 - 38:35
Shannon-Guest: know them well, how I would have reacted before.

38:35 - 39:08
Cheryl: I know damn well how I would have reacted before. And it's the same at home with your kids. If you, you know, your kid comes home and they're yelling at you, they had a shitty day at school or whatever. If you have that bubble around you, then that goes out, that envelopes them. And you don't have to talk. You can even just say, there's a different way to say that. I'm going to take a break. I'm going to take a pause. And when you come back from the pause, that's instilling in them, Oh man, I can

39:08 - 39:09
Cheryl: ask for that.

39:09 - 39:09
Shannon-Guest: Yeah, I

39:09 - 39:22
Cheryl: can ask for the space. I can ask for the pause. Yeah. You know, I think it's amazing. So give us some examples of regulating our nervous system, a couple things we can do at home today.

39:24 - 40:00
Shannon-Guest: Well, stop drinking for 1, alcohol is just an absolute, It just obliterates your body and all of your good cells and your nervous system. And it hangs out in your body for a really long time. People think that, you know, we drink and then a couple days later our body is rid of it. But what happens is our toxins, the alcohol, the toxins from the alcohol, they sort of like line up to get into your liver. And any other toxins ahead of them, the alcohol is like a bully toxin. So it like it jumps the line

40:00 - 40:35
Shannon-Guest: and it wants to get in there first. So all of these other toxins are still just like floating around in your body, not able to get through your liver. So stop drinking alcohol. I would find something that feels like meditation to you. And the reason why I say feels like meditation is because I don't want ever anybody to think that I'm saying you have to sit cross legged with your hands in this own position and and just breathe like that's not that's not what I'm saying. Meditation could be walking, it could be swimming, it could be

40:35 - 40:56
Shannon-Guest: going for a drive, it could be listening to your favorite podcast. You know, 1 of those things, breathing exercises, shaking out your body, literally standing up and shaking out your limbs and shaking out your hands and your feet. Yeah, those are the nervous system regulating things that I have done. And you don't have

40:56 - 41:10
Cheryl: to try everything at 1. Try 1 thing. And if it doesn't work for you, great, throw it out, find something else. There's so many, there's so many. Oh, thank you for that. You know, it's so funny because,

41:11 - 41:12
Shannon-Guest: well, it's not

41:12 - 41:32
Cheryl: funny. I don't drink between Monday and Thursday. And then on the weekends I'll have a drink. And now I'm like, Oh, I thought I was being so good. And Shannon says, bullshit. That is, I'm really glad you said that because I need to take a step back in

41:32 - 41:42
Shannon-Guest: what I'm not actually doing your body time to recuperate if you're just drinking on the weekends that's not long enough for your body to fully recuperate from the damage that the alcohol does

41:42 - 41:59
Cheryl: interesting I had absolutely no idea okay So much for my boy scout hat I had on. That's, that's, I'm really glad you said that though, because now I'm like, okay. We need to rethink our schedule on the weekend.

41:59 - 42:02
Shannon-Guest: Yeah. Maybe like once a month.

42:03 - 42:04
Cheryl: Yeah. I think I can manage that.

42:05 - 42:05
Shannon-Guest: Yeah, I

42:05 - 42:06
Cheryl: think I can.

42:06 - 42:06
Shannon-Guest: It's a

42:06 - 42:07
Cheryl: lot cheaper.

42:08 - 42:10
Shannon-Guest: Yeah, it is. So

42:11 - 42:43
Cheryl: expensive. Shannon, I'm so grateful you were super vulnerable and honest and raw. And I know that people listening are gonna, if it's not for them, I'm a thousand percent sure it's for somebody they know. And just by sharing this is doing your work and doing your work as a listener and I really appreciate all of this. How do we find you? How do we work with you? How do we hear you on stage? Tell us all about the Shannon Butt.

42:44 - 43:34
Shannon-Guest: I am, I speak at FASD conferences. So the next 1 that I have is in Red Deer, Alberta on October 2nd. And actually I have 1 before that on September 8th at Ottawa City Hall for FASD Red Shoes Rocks Day. September is FASD Awareness Month. So you can, I don't know if you type in FASD to Instagram, all of these fantastic accounts come up so you can follow some and there will be lots of postings for FASD Month? You can find my own personal Instagram at Shannon Lee Butt and you can find my website at outcastally.com.

43:37 - 43:41
Shannon-Guest: And there's a form on there if you wanna book my services.

43:42 - 43:59
Cheryl: Beautiful, all of this will be in the show notes. Yes. Shannon, thank you, Thank you. We need more people in the world like you. I'm so grateful for the work you do. Keep going. And is there anything I can do or say to help? Then I'm right

43:59 - 44:01
Shannon-Guest: here. Just this podcast. Keep doing that.

44:01 - 44:14
Cheryl: Awesome. Well, this is definitely going to be released on FASD awareness month. 1000%. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you. Thank you for listening to Teen Minds Redefined. We'll see you next time.

44:15 - 44:30
Shannon-Guest: Teen Minds Redefined with Cheryl Pankhurst. New episodes out every Wednesday. Thanks for stopping by. You