#50 "Rethinking Parenting : The Art of Connecting with Teens by Balancing Freedom with Values" with Abigail Wald

 

Cheryl-Host: Today's episode on Teen Minds Redefined was so enlightening. There is a whole different shift in parenting and Abigail Wald brings this shift and I can't unhear the fact that we are co-parenting with culture. We are co-parenting with peers. We're co-parenting with internet. We're co-parenting with school, with doctors. If your teenager has anxiety, we are co-parenting with anxiety. Like, boom, you have to listen. You will get so much out of this episode and please share the podcast, download, subscribe, do all the things. Because the more you do that, the more we help everyone who needs to hear

 

00:49 - 01:03

Cheryl-Host: this message. And I truly appreciate you listening. And I truly appreciate you sharing this and subscribing and downloading and all the things. Listen up. You're going to love this 1. Turn up the volume.

 

01:10 - 01:15

Abigail - Guest: Teen Minds Redefined. You're listening to the podcast with Cheryl Pankhurst.

 

01:24 - 01:55

Cheryl-Host: Welcome to another enlightening episode of Teen Minds Redefined where we help parents navigate that intricate journey of raising our teenagers. And today we have a remarkable guest who is known for her fearless approach to the challenges of parenting and her innovative solutions that turn obstacles into opportunities. Abigail Walt, The founder of Mother Flipping Awesome is here with us. Welcome, Abigail. I'm so glad to have you here. And I'll ask you now, Abigail, Abby, Gail, what do you prefer?

 

01:56 - 01:58

Abigail - Guest: Abigail's great. It's all good. Thank you.

 

01:59 - 02:01

Cheryl-Host: Welcome. I'm So glad to have you here.

 

02:02 - 02:38

Abigail - Guest: Thank you. I'm so glad to be here. I love this. I love that you're creating space for people who are caring for teenagers to think well about teens. I think there's so much help for parents when our kids are younger. And it's, you know, I think by the time our kids are this age, very often parents are kind of like, you know, starting to feel like overwhelmed or checked out or out of touch, or Like the kids are pushing them away and you know, you don't even know your kids, you know, the friends their friends parents

 

02:38 - 02:56

Abigail - Guest: anymore and your the school isn't involving you you get kicked out of the pediatrician's office and you know, I think parents really need support during these years and we've normalized not having it. So I think it's just fantastic that you're doing this.

 

02:56 - 03:08

Cheryl-Host: Well, thank you. And right back at you. Your coaching and your podcast is fantastic. I would love to just dive right in. And I know that you've been doing this for like 10 years.

 

03:08 - 03:09

Abigail - Guest: Yeah.

 

03:09 - 03:27

Cheryl-Host: So what I want to ask first, because my quote is, we just can't parent the way our parents did. I'm sorry, but we just can't do it anymore. So what have you seen in your 10 years? What has the shift been in parenting teens?

 

03:29 - 04:13

Abigail - Guest: Oh, wow. Yeah, such a good question. So I would say there are a lot of shifts in the parenting landscape overall, right? And I think 1 of the shifts in the parenting landscape has been this shift towards, I'll say like a more gentle, conscious kind of parenting, right? And I think we all know that we've seen that. And so there's been that shift, which is I think in large part, there's a lot of positive aspects to that, which are, we're really trying to parent consciously and wonder about, you know, our kids and their mental health and

 

04:13 - 04:43

Abigail - Guest: all that. And some of the things that just weren't on the radar earlier. Okay. I think that there is a real problem with just that gentle parenting paradigm, because I think that there's a lot of focus on feelings and a lot of focus on feelings being 100% right and true. And I don't think our feelings are 100% right and true for any

 

04:43 - 04:44

Cheryl-Host: of us.

 

04:44 - 05:33

Abigail - Guest: I just don't. They're like weather patterns. They're clouds, right? They're not topography, okay? And so I think when we start shifting so deeply based on everybody's feelings, we lose ground, which is why I think A lot of parents are actually rebelling against so-called gentle parenting. I also think if you've got kids who function a little differently, are neurodiverse, or just strong-willed, highly sensitive, gifted, highly anxious, ADHD, then gentle parenting is like a complicated thing where on the 1 hand you need that, but really what those kids need is something more along the lines of what we

 

05:33 - 06:17

Abigail - Guest: in our community call an MFA hug. So like a mother flipping laws on the hug, which is on the 1 side being incredibly gentle and listening and nurturing and on the other side, a tremendous amount of structure, boundaries, values and limits. And not to say that gentle parenting doesn't have limits, it does, but there's a very different way to parent kids like that. And then teenagers, of course, fall into that bucket because teenagers are typically, you know, a little bit anxious, intense, highly feeling, you know, and a little neurodiverse, even if they're not neurodiverse, because teenagers

 

06:18 - 06:40

Abigail - Guest: are going through a lot of brain reconstruction. OK? And then I always say, I'll just add that any teen is like a stiff vodka, like parenting any teen, and then parenting neurodiverse teens is like a Long Island iced tea, right? So, you know, I think, I don't know if that answers your question, but that's what's on my mind when I hear your question.

 

06:41 - 07:19

Cheryl-Host: Yeah, no, totally. And I, there's this, I feel like there's this happy medium, somewhere there, from, you know, and I, and I say this all the time when people say, you know, oh, my parents, they did it, they did it right. I never backtalk my parents, I never blah blah blah. And I just say, you know, if you were to need brain surgery today, would you go back to 1962 and find a surgeon? No. Why? Because things have changed. People learn. There's new education. There's news. So I feel like let that's gone. Thank you. And there's

 

07:19 - 07:36

Cheryl-Host: nothing wrong with the way I was parented. But I'm not parenting that way now. And and I certainly don't recommend the way I parented. Currently, my kids are 34 and 31. So it's a very different world again, like there's another new cycle to deal with.

 

07:36 - 07:40

Abigail - Guest: Absolutely. And what a great question, by

 

07:40 - 07:43

Cheryl-Host: the way. I love your question. So good.

 

07:43 - 08:24

Abigail - Guest: And I think The reality is this, right? 1 of the things that I talk about with teenagers is we're co-parenting with culture. So because culture has changed, your parenting has to change, right? So depending on who you're co-parenting with, you have to parent differently. And the culture that our children, especially right now, I mean, I think every generation feels this, but like, wow, the changes. And A lot of that is the internet. I mean, let's face it, that's changed everything. That's changed everything. Because you used to be able to say to kids, we could kind of

 

08:24 - 08:43

Abigail - Guest: see as far as our own community, so to speak, right? Now you can see all the way around the world. So you can say, no, that's not possible. And a kid in 3 seconds is like, yeah, it is. Look, it's happening here and here and here and here and here. And by the way, the stats on this are this. We didn't have that information when we were growing up.

 

08:43 - 08:44

Cheryl-Host: You might be able to

 

08:44 - 08:51

Abigail - Guest: come home and be like, well, that's not how Sally does it in her house. You know what I mean? But like, that's not today's world.

 

08:51 - 09:24

Cheryl-Host: Yeah, the whole world comes home with you. You don't have that safe space where you get home from school, the doors are closed, and now you're in the environment that you want them to be in with your morals and your values. Now their cell phone is there and their internet is there and the whole world. Like there just doesn't seem to be a break from that. There's this constant input. I know if You're like me, like, you know, podcasting, you're always learning, you're always growing. And sometimes I have to think, I've had nothing but input in

 

09:24 - 09:55

Cheryl-Host: my head, I need to like take my headphones out and walk and get outside because of that input, but I can regulate it. Yeah. Right. And teenagers just are still working on that regulation as we try to kind of guide them through that. I really like this co-parenting with culture. What a great line. Like that's just perfect. Thanks. Yeah. I know you have some different shifts. So talk about your shifts. Talk about these 3 shifts.

 

09:55 - 10:33

Abigail - Guest: So I think there are 3 really important mindflips that we need to think about as to, like, not the parent we want to be, because that's a big issue. There's the parent we want to be, but then there's the parent our child needs us to be, right? And so, especially during these teen years, our kids are changing. So even if they were 1 way, like they may be very different during these years. Very different. I have 1 of my kids is is a pretty risky daredevil now and this was a kid who was extremely cautious beforehand.

 

10:35 - 11:02

Abigail - Guest: And you don't know all the ways that peer pressure, by the way, can be a wonderful thing. Like peer pressure is not all bad. So that's another mind flip. Just take that as number 4, right? You know, I wasn't even going to talk about that 1, but peer pressure can be wonderful. And you don't know all the ways that peers are going to affect your kids and that community is going to affect them and their own hormones are going to affect them and, you know, all the different passions and all the things that they come in

 

11:02 - 11:42

Abigail - Guest: contact with. So I think that our kids really begin to drive and define, and this happens from birth, but the kind of parent we need to be for them. That's when we're parenting correctly is like some mixture of our values with what the need is on the ground. And so there are 3 mind shifts that I think parents need to make during these years that will help them. So We already touched on 1, which is you're co-parenting with culture. Understand that you're not parenting alone. You are co-parenting with your child's peers, like it or not. It's

 

11:42 - 12:15

Abigail - Guest: true. Okay. And you can say, well, I'm not going to do that, but you are doing it. Okay? You're co-parenting with the internet. You're co-parenting with school, with doctors, with all of the information that they get on a constant basis coming into their brain. You're co-parenting with, you know, potentially other kids who are using substances and all the different things that they are exposed to. You may be co-parenting with your child's anxiety. If you have a child with deep anxiety, you're co-parenting with their anxiety.

 

12:15 - 12:16

Cheryl-Host: Bingo.

 

12:16 - 12:50

Abigail - Guest: Okay, So you have to know this and stop thinking like, oh, I'm the parent. I'm just telling you what to do. If you're not aware of all the other forces in the room, it's like you wouldn't drive a car and not be aware of all the other forces going on that are affecting how that car is going to move. Right. You need to know. So I think that's a big shift is accepting that we're co-parenting with all of those forces because these aren't the years where we're curating everything for our kids anymore, you're not in control.

 

12:50 - 13:05

Abigail - Guest: You're not. And so really like making friends and playing nice, even when you're going to set boundaries, loving their choices And helping them make better choices, but understanding why those choices are right. That's really key.

 

13:05 - 13:49

Cheryl-Host: So that's the first 1. Yep Let's go there for a moment. Let's go there about If they're making these choices that completely go against all of your values and all of your morals. How are you managing that? They're coming home, they're 15, mom, my boyfriend lives 2 hours away. It's too late for him to go home. Can he sleep over? He'll be in the basement. I'll be upstairs. Or can we watch TV on top of the covers in our room? I mean, I had some pretty big boundaries about that, but this again, 15, 20 years ago,

 

13:49 - 14:09

Cheryl-Host: but there's a moral and a value there, or you can use your own for example, but how are you like navigating, respecting their choices, but still enforcing, fostering your own morals and values in your home.

 

14:10 - 14:43

Abigail - Guest: Yeah. So, and I think for those of us with strong will kids, this starts from day 1. You don't have to wait for a teenager, yeah? But there is a deep understanding that it is genuinely a relationship and you actually like, sometimes it can help to trick yourself and I know that there are some parents are going to freak out when I say this, but just bear with me and finish to the end of my thought, OK? It can help to think, like, what if this were a colleague at work? OK, like, how would I react?

 

14:43 - 15:28

Abigail - Guest: And I know it's not a colleague. I know you are in leadership, and I actually want parents to be in deep deep leadership during these years I'm not asking you to relinquish that leadership, but just for a moment to do that thought experiment because We would speak differently Okay, and having that deep respect it's really important and you know I'll give you an example from my life, which is my oldest son, who was born needing to have open-heart surgery and he's had many medical interventions and We've literally, you know, he has been through many circumstances as

 

15:28 - 16:10

Abigail - Guest: have we as his family Literally saving his life multiple times. Okay? So, you know, we're all a little, I think, traumatized and tweaked from all of those experiences. And for years, he was very cautious. But he's also got a real rebellious streak. And as he started to get just a little bit older, you know, he loved trucks and vehicles when he was younger. But suddenly around the age of like 14, he started really talking about motorcycles. And I was like, Oh, hell no. No, they call them donor cycles. Like this is not happening. Like I am

 

16:10 - 16:11

Abigail - Guest: not,

 

16:11 - 16:12

Cheryl-Host: I'm with you.

 

16:12 - 16:46

Abigail - Guest: No, this is not my world. I'm not interested. This is a no. I've already worried about you enough, kid. Like you've already made me worry times 9 million. Of course, you're not gonna have to fall. But like I'm done. Like my worry bucket is full. We're not doing that. We're not electively doing that. That was my thought, okay? Understandable. Not gonna work though. My son, his passion grew, grew, grew. His best friend, of course, got a motorcycle. And I was like, no, no. And of course that was his best friend. Do you know what I mean?

 

16:46 - 17:33

Abigail - Guest: Like, of course. And so over the years, I wanna say broke me down, but really he built me up. I mean, he kept showing up for this passion. Which also makes sense, because my son is very strong-willed and, you know, he's got his own mind, very much so. And sometimes not even, like I always joke that if I were like have a nice day, he'd be like don't tell me what to do Just because you know, like that's how he's built and and It's been really important especially because of that to maintain the relationship And so

 

17:35 - 18:18

Abigail - Guest: I was putting my foot down around no motorcycles, and I suddenly realized he's 17. He's going to turn 18. And when he turns 18, I'll have no say about his gear, about the training, about anything. And because I've held him back, he's going to absolutely just do it all. Right? Sorry, my dog is getting excited. And so I was like, you know what? I'm actually going to begin to move into this now. At this age, it's appropriate for me to begin to follow him here. That's like, what is it you want to do? And he's like,

 

18:18 - 18:42

Abigail - Guest: I'm going to get a bike and ride. And I was like, okay, cool. So here's the deal. You're going to have to earn it. You've got to pay for the insurance. You're going to have to do these things. You need to start with dirt biking first. No, I don't want to do dirt bike. I'm doing street biking. I understand you're going to do dirt biking first." And at first he really rebelled and I was like, I'm helping you. I'm saying yes and I'm giving you the steps. Not something that's particularly very hard for this kid is

 

18:42 - 19:14

Abigail - Guest: like the steps to something are really difficult. He's very black and white. And so I was like, oh, wait a minute. I can see how by saying yes to his big yes, I'm gonna be able to help him build lots of mini skills that are actually what I need to see for him to go out into the world and feel good about it. So I realized it was actually a win-win. And I call this attaching riders where you actually say yes to the child's motor and then you attach the riders of what you know the child

 

19:14 - 19:22

Abigail - Guest: needs and what you need to see as a parent. And that's your leadership. Your leadership isn't in the yes or the no, but in the how, right?

 

19:22 - 19:31

Cheryl-Host: Yes, that's so good. Yes, I'm thinking life insurance. Here's your lighter. I had my kid, I just, yeah.

 

19:31 - 20:05

Abigail - Guest: Right? So then I was like, okay. So I began to tell him what he was gonna do. He trained on dirt biking first, then he did street biking. We did a dirt biking camp. We learned how to actually build the bike. He actually took a street biking day. He took a track day or a half day and I took him to a bunch of motorcycle stores. We started talking to all the people and I started realizing I have a lot of prejudice against people who use, who ride bikes. I have prejudices against this. These are wonderful

 

20:05 - 20:19

Abigail - Guest: people. I understand why my son loves them. If I was like looking and going like any mini, mini mo and I had to be like, like this fruit belongs to this tree. I'd be like, yes, you absolutely are a bike rider. Like, I could see it. Yeah.

 

20:19 - 20:19

Cheryl-Host: Do

 

20:19 - 20:21

Abigail - Guest: you know, but I didn't want it.

 

20:21 - 20:22

Cheryl-Host: Yes.

 

20:22 - 20:53

Abigail - Guest: And then it was like, oh, he knows himself. He's putting himself in the right place. And he's had to learn so much executive function. He's had to learn so much risk management. He's had to learn so much skill building, so much patience. He's had to really, he's a child who learns from experience. So this is real. This isn't me saying it. This is like something he wants and he knows there are stakes here. So he focuses his brain and it's been incredible. Now I'm well aware there may be days that are going to be far less

 

20:53 - 21:02

Abigail - Guest: incredible and I'm not looking forward to those. When we birth our kids into life, it's all of life

 

21:02 - 21:03

Cheryl-Host: And

 

21:03 - 21:33

Abigail - Guest: life is gnarly. Right? So that's an example of how I would say in that particular example, I was able to make sure I was still in leadership. I still made the values. We've gotten so close this year, like so close. And he even said to me after his last training day, he looks at me and he goes, Mom, he takes out his helmet and he goes, Mom, just want you to know this was a really good choice. I know I fought you on this, but everything you've done this summer, it's been totally right on. And I

 

21:33 - 21:46

Abigail - Guest: feel so much more confident And thank you for making me get this training and thank you for making me go step-by-step It was a hundred percent right and I laughed and I go can I pull out my camera? I just I just need that for my own mental health Nope, that was 1

 

21:49 - 22:21

Cheryl-Host: That's incredible though what a group what a great example because and I and I feel you completely because, oh my gosh, my daughter rode a dirt bike and thank God she never went on to want a motorcycle. And she was great at it. But oh my gosh, it scared the living daylights out of me. But that's my fear, my fear. And that's where, you know, like you said, you kind of got to lift that boundary, that's on me to have that fear. Oh, OK. Shift number 2.

 

22:22 - 23:00

Abigail - Guest: All right. So shift number 2, I would say, is just like we're handing our kids the keys to the car. And I love this, that these are the years that they learn to drive. These are literally the years they learned to drive, like everything. And so just like we're actually going to hand them, and I know some of you haven't necessarily done it yet, it is nerve wracking. It really is. But you have to sit there in that passenger seat for those 50 hours going, it's great. That hedge was a little close, so normally we don't

 

23:00 - 23:03

Abigail - Guest: clip the hedge, but that you're doing great.

 

23:04 - 23:11

Cheryl-Host: My foot's asleep from pushing the brake that isn't there. And you have to learn

 

23:11 - 23:28

Abigail - Guest: to just like remain really calm, reject a ton of trust, totally believe in them, and also forecast a little like, okay, so you're gonna take a left. So which lane do you think you wanna be in if you're gonna be going left? No, they're not really equal. Uh-huh.

 

23:29 - 23:34

Cheryl-Host: So. The other left. The other left. Yeah, the other left.

 

23:35 - 24:08

Abigail - Guest: So that sense of like, you're not driving, you need to hand it over to them. Yeah. Right. But, but You are still helping. They still need you. And if you're the 1 grabbing the wheel or just driving them or telling them where to go, they kick you out of the car. And if you're in the passenger seat complaining every second or yelling or freaking out about all their mistakes, they also kick you out of the car. And guess what? They need you in the car. Right. And you want to be in the car. You didn't work

 

24:08 - 24:22

Abigail - Guest: all this hard to get kicked out of the car, right. And have to walk the rest of the way home. It's not fun. So, so stay in the car, be chill, put on some good music, be funny, and lead when you need to, but not when you don't.

 

24:23 - 25:01

Cheryl-Host: Yep, good point. When my son was learning how to drive, oh my gosh, We were driving and I said to him, oh, slow down, slow down. It's only 40 here. And he's like, mom, it's 60. I said, it's only 40. It's only 40, slow down. You're going to get a ticket. And 2 seconds later, we get pulled over. And the cop says, you know, you're doing 40 and a 60. And I pulled you over because that usually means you're a drunk driver because you'd go way too slow. And I said, oh, I said, I'm so sorry.

 

25:01 - 25:44

Cheryl-Host: I thought it was a 40. I'm teaching how to draw. And he said, okay, always listen to your mother. Maybe not in this case, but completely feel you there. Oh, my goodness. But that's true. Like giving them, I always feel like up into a certain age, you're the parent, like you're the parent, you're in this parent role. And then there seems to be like this little on ramp where now you're more of not a bestie, but you're more of the coach and the mentor and pushing them up from behind as opposed to come this way. I

 

25:44 - 26:17

Cheryl-Host: want you to go this way. This is the way your life should be. And just kind of, oh, is that really a good choice? Like really more being the coach or the mentor. And I think that goes a long way because you're still respecting, you know, what they're looking for and what they feel they need and still being able to kind of say, okay, you know, a coach is a coach, a coach is just kind of guiding the way, showing different perspectives, hopefully choose the right 1. And if you don't and you get tackled, well, you

 

26:17 - 26:37

Cheryl-Host: know what, I'm here to help you get up, but I'm not dusting you off. I'm helping you get up and let's see what happens next time. And I think there, I honestly think that, and that's not being best friends. I don't want to be best friends with my kids. I have enough friends. But I do think that that there is a transition there. Do you think?

 

26:38 - 27:03

Abigail - Guest: Yes. Again, I think when you have particularly strong will kids, I think they kind of start that process at the age of like, I don't know. I mean, my son, I literally remember feeding him sweet potato mixed with breast milk. He was like 9 months old and I gave him like 1 spoonful too much And he literally looked at me and went,

 

27:06 - 27:06

Cheryl-Host: I was like,

 

27:07 - 27:09

Abigail - Guest: I think he's done.

 

27:13 - 27:16

Cheryl-Host: Well, nothing else you have to have a sense of humor on top of

 

27:16 - 27:54

Abigail - Guest: my gosh. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So I think, you know, every child is different when they, when they fire you from that, like, you're just in charge of me role. Some kids take that. Some kids love that. Some kids hate that. Every child needs to be parented differently. But I do agree with you that in the teenage years, all kids get to a place where they're like, I'm driving now. And if they don't, that's a different issue. Right? You want that. And so we actually need that. We need that. That's important. It's an important individuation process.

 

27:54 - 28:29

Abigail - Guest: And and I think this whole concept of like, hold on to your kids, you know, which is so beautiful. But it's also like, what does that really mean? How do we hold on? Because I actually think their peers are really great co parents, even when they're not even when they're not okay, like Kids actually are learning from other kids mistakes. So having another kid who makes a lot of mistakes It's not necessarily a bad thing, right? It's complicated it's it's it's complicated and we want it to be so neat and clean and tidy and You know

 

28:29 - 28:32

Abigail - Guest: life. I don't know. Yeah, like isn't

 

28:33 - 28:57

Cheryl-Host: And I think not letting them fumble and pick themselves up, I think the 1 message, you know, we have a lot of parents that like to fix it. I don't want to see my kid hurt. I don't want to see my kid fail. I was in the high teaching in high school for 25 years and I can't tell you how many parents came in to say well, they need to get an 85 When they didn't get an 85 what they need to get an 85 So there's a gap.

 

28:58 - 28:58

Abigail - Guest: Yeah,

 

28:58 - 29:31

Cheryl-Host: and they don't have an 85 and you don't have an 85 So there's no 85 or you know I heard this teacher marks hard and I don't want my kid to be in their class and I and every September I would say Well, we're not allowed to student and parent shop. So you're not allowed to teach your shop. So what you're going to do is teach your kids how to learn. There's different personalities and different ways to manage different personalities and how to respect everybody in the room. You can still be kind. You don't have to

 

29:31 - 29:44

Cheryl-Host: love everybody. But this is, this is a skill. This is a skill. And when we pull our kids out of these situations, what I think you're saying is, I don't have faith in you to handle it.

 

29:44 - 30:25

Abigail - Guest: Absolutely. And, and It's true that some kids Can handle xyz and some kids are gonna have a harder time And what's also true is we build the skills, right? Oh my gosh my son has I don't know if you can hear this. He has friends over there in the kitchen making food and it sounds like a frat party right now. So yeah, so you know, Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, it's true. I think that happened in second grade for my youngest who's a very sensitive child and he would come home and he was just like

 

30:25 - 30:51

Abigail - Guest: I Can't go to school anymore. And I was like, well, I get it. You don't like this teacher and you know, you'll, you'll make it through. She's doing what she believes is her best and it's your job to figure out how you, you take that and turn it around every day. And you know, we, We did that from a very young age, right? It's important. It's an important It's an important skill.

 

30:52 - 31:25

Cheryl-Host: Yeah, because you know My an analogy I used to use is so when they go for a full-time job and they don't like their supervisor what exactly are you going to do about that? No, so let's build those skills now. So if parents are saying, I just hear this all the time, oh they used to spend all their time with me and we used to do everything together and now they walk in the door and they go to the room and they shut the door and and they don't say anything and Yeah, talk to parents about

 

31:25 - 31:30

Cheryl-Host: who are completely offended by this can we talk to parents who are feeling like what the heck

 

31:31 - 32:05

Abigail - Guest: Yes, well, I do everything for you. It is. Oh, God, there. I could talk about this for so long. There's so many things going on here. So first of all, let me just say I feel you. It is so hard to pour so much attention and love and put our lives on, you know, what often feels like the back burner for other people that you are putting front and center for so long. And then, you know, they're standing on their own and it does, it can feel like a betrayal or like, you know, who am I

 

32:05 - 32:44

Abigail - Guest: anymore? And I just want to say, that's kind of the point. Okay, so here's the deal. Actually, we shouldn't have totally put ourselves on the back burner. And that's a problem in parenthood. And actually them standing on their own is actual health. And the problem is it's showing us that we, we it's like, it's almost like you lean on somebody, and then they walk away and we fall, and we're like, you weren't supposed to walk away, we weren't supposed to lean, okay? And it's really difficult, it's really complex, okay? And I'm not saying we've done anything

 

32:44 - 33:14

Abigail - Guest: wrong, it's normal, it happens, It happens to almost all of us It's a sign of being a really wonderful caring parent and this is a sign of its time to be a really wonderful caring parent to yourself These are the years where it's actually we go. Oh Right. Hold on Actually, I exist to All of this parts of me that I have ignored for all of these years, I'm gonna start working out again. I'm gonna start taking care of myself. I'm gonna start making sure I have passions and hobbies. I'm gonna start making sure like I'm

 

33:14 - 33:43

Abigail - Guest: paying attention to my marital life or my romantic life or my own self-life or I'm going to all of those things, take care of my nutrition. You're probably, if you're a mom going into menopause, right? So there's a lot of self-care that needs to happen during these years. So instead of focusing on them walking in their room, I would say, do you focus on, cool, they've walked in their room, they're good. I'm going to go work out. I'm going to go meditate. I'm going to go make some great food for myself. Like it's time to remember

 

33:43 - 33:58

Abigail - Guest: you. Okay. That is 1 of the biggest gifts you can give your kid because they are actually looking at you and how you take care of yourself because it's no longer what you say, it's what you do. So if you're telling

 

33:58 - 34:01

Cheryl-Host: them to eat well, but you're not eating well, knock on

 

34:01 - 34:27

Abigail - Guest: fly, right? Maybe when they were 4, they didn't notice. They're 14 now and they're absolutely noticing and they've been watching you this whole time and they know exactly what you really do. So you can't tell them to take care of themselves if you're not putting yourself front and center. If you do everything for them, then you can't say don't go do that just because your friend wants you to. What about you and your own values? Well, we didn't model that. So we have to take care of ourselves. That's 1 big piece of this. Okay. And I'm

 

34:27 - 35:03

Abigail - Guest: not saying this to be uncaring. I'm actually saying this as like a big loving wake up call to say I know it hurts and it's for the best the second piece of this is Absolutely, you want to hold on to your relationship with your kids and that's the third You know mind flip that I was gonna give you which is they're not pushing you away, they're pulling you in. So what they're saying is, don't parent me anymore by telling me who to be, what to be, how to be. Instead, understand who I am, what I want,

 

35:03 - 35:38

Abigail - Guest: and what I think. And so if you actually come in as a visitor in their world, they will actually shock you with their graciousness. If you come in as the person who owns everything and you're telling them how to be, then they kick you out because it's their time to begin to understand who they are. No, they're not in control and no, you're not in their world, but it's like fake it till you make it. These are the years where you let them sort of pretend that they're in charge so they can make the mistakes in

 

35:38 - 36:10

Abigail - Guest: a safe space where you still have that button, that safety break to push. Okay. So It's not that you're not there, you're there, but you come in underneath, like you were talking about, it's like I call it elevator parenting versus escalator. Elevator is like, get in and I'll take you where you're going. Escalator is like, oh, where are you going? I'm beneath you, I don't know, where are you taking us? And that kind of thinking is where they'll let you in. So like, I can't make my son, you know, read all the psychology books I'd love

 

36:10 - 36:20

Abigail - Guest: him to read, although yes, I've tried. But I can learn all the lessons he's learning from motorcycle, right? Which actually are the same thing.

 

36:21 - 36:21

Cheryl-Host: And

 

36:21 - 36:23

Abigail - Guest: we're in the language he'll take them in.

 

36:23 - 37:00

Cheryl-Host: That's so good. I say this, I think on every single podcast is you can't tell them what holding space for yourself is, you show them. Just like if you are in a heated conversation and you can say, I need some space, or there's a better way to say this, I'm going to back off. And when you come back with a little more reason and a little less emotion, they see what that space did. It doesn't mean they're going to say, oh, next time I'm going to ask for space. They're just going to, it's a ripple effect

 

37:00 - 37:17

Cheryl-Host: inside your house. For sure. I love that. And I love that it's, it's part of it. Like if they're doing this, if they're feeling the independence, this is good. This is growth. You've done a good job. If they're feeling like they don't need to cling on you all the time like I think that's wonderful.

 

37:17 - 37:49

Abigail - Guest: Yes and and to be fair there is that space where as a parent, we have that gnawing worry of like, no, they're really on their own too much. Right? Yes. And, and That's true too. And so, you know, that's, I call these years kind of the waterfall years where it's like you get in to the river and when you're little, like there's not a lot of current. So the rafts just kind of stay together. But as the water kind of starts churning up through the years, now those rafts can kind of like really bang up against

 

37:49 - 37:51

Abigail - Guest: each other and also go away from each other.

 

37:51 - 37:52

Cheryl-Host: And

 

37:52 - 38:24

Abigail - Guest: so you really want to keep like some slack but some lines between the 2 of you. And so if not, there is a reality to sometimes 1 raft goes down the waterfall and we they won't let us with them because we've stayed on the other current and and and when they do that unfortunately it can be many many years till your rivers meet up again and and so that is a place that's really painful for a parent which is why I think actually it's so important. This is why all of that relationship building and the deep

 

38:24 - 38:55

Abigail - Guest: listening and the wondering how do you think about things not telling you what to think because if you tell them what to think and that's not what they think, they're like, I'm not on your current, I'm choosing a different current. But if you actually wonder what they think, that's 1 of the ways you lash those rafts together. You want to have a bunch of Loose ties between the rafts, not so tight that they can't move, not so far away you can get separated in the currents. Loose ties between the rafts, so you stay on the current

 

38:55 - 39:30

Abigail - Guest: together, but there's motion and space and freedom. That analogy or metaphor, visual metaphor helps people. That can be a way to think about it, right? Because if a child is really distancing, that is sometimes when our kids need us most. And sometimes the answer there is actually, we do need to come in with a really big limit. And we do need to actually like that is a leadership move of like, I am grabbing the wheel, but you can't grab the wheel if you're not doing all the relationship building that allows you to reach the wheel in

 

39:30 - 39:31

Abigail - Guest: the first place. Yeah.

 

39:32 - 40:00

Cheryl-Host: And you know, we talk a lot about in mental health, there's a baseline. You know, so if your kid is constantly kind of going off on their own for a few hours, and this is just something they do every single day, don't decide on Thursday that this is something completely different. If you look at a baseline, and then all of a sudden, all of a sudden they have no friends, all of a sudden they're never on their, you know, coming into the table. Like if there's a huge change in what we call a baseline, That's when

 

40:00 - 40:17

Cheryl-Host: you're concerned. That's when you might bring in some professional help. So it's not to say, yeah, yeah, it's growth. Leave them in the room and that's it. No, look at what is a normal baseline for them before you decide where you really need to be concerned.

 

40:18 - 40:56

Abigail - Guest: And also, look, sometimes that baseline shifts, like shifting sands over time, and you don't even notice it. And even that can get to a concerning place at which point build in some rituals that tie you back together, build in little moments, do you know? Like, go get the car washed together, go wash the car together, you know, go take a walk with the dog, you know, walk to, you know, whatever, a motorcycle helmet shop, you know, like do different things, you know what I'm saying, motorcycle helmet in quotes, right? Like whatever it is your kid wants.

 

40:56 - 41:20

Abigail - Guest: If it's horses, it's horses. If it's, you know, whatever, like art and design, or, you know, whatever your kid is interested in. Go take time where you make their thing the main focus. Show up for them multiple times a week and it'll be harder for them to kick you out if it's truly feels like it's for them, right?

 

41:20 - 41:31

Cheryl-Host: Yeah. Be the taxi driver. Yeah, I was the taxi driver the entire high school career because they get a friend in the backseat, they forget you're even there.

 

41:31 - 41:32

Abigail - Guest: I know.

 

41:32 - 41:46

Cheryl-Host: And then these mental notes about who's going where and who's got what boyfriend and they it just spills out. So so you know, as much as it's a pain in the ass to be the taxi driver, it's all worth it to be there. So worth it. It is.

 

41:49 - 42:25

Abigail - Guest: I would say be friends if you can. You know, 1 of my kids, this didn't happen. And the other kid who's 15, the parents got on a group text and have become really good friends. We have that thing that you almost have more when you're in preschool where like, I actually know all of his friends' parents and it's so lovely and it started with just simple group texts. You know, can somebody pick up this? Can somebody do that? Is anybody going to this event?" And it's like blossomed into this just beautiful multi-family friendship, which is, I

 

42:25 - 42:29

Abigail - Guest: think, created a lot of safety for that kid. So it's very nice.

 

42:30 - 43:02

Cheryl-Host: That is very, that's such a great idea. Such a good idea. And you know, I think too, like I hear so many parents say, you know, I do this for you and I do this for you and I do this for you and then you can't do this. And I feel like saying, okay, if what you're gonna do for your kid, make it unconditional, unless you have a condition beforehand. Yep, I'm gonna drive you to the mall, but this is what I expect before we go But it's not fair in my eyes to list off Every

 

43:02 - 43:30

Cheryl-Host: meal you've cooked for them for the last 13 years because they didn't put their socks away and this was not even a conversation so meaning clear expectations 1000% And if you're going to do something for them out of the goodness of your heart, then that's where it stays in the goodness of your heart. You're not loading up ammunition for when you're pissed off. That's when the eagle pops in and it's like, put that away.

 

43:32 - 44:07

Abigail - Guest: I think that's a great marker. If a parent is doing that, it's a great marker that they're crossing their own boundaries and doing things they don't want to be doing. And this is this takes us back to that, you know, we don't need to like, you know, be upset with ourselves. If we're doing that, it's a sign of our values. And it's a sign that we're not caring for ourselves. And so to say, hey, I'm doing things I'm not 100% okay with, or I'm expecting things of you that I'm not communicating and so as you say

 

44:07 - 44:35

Abigail - Guest: This is why I love the attaching writers, right as you say do it beforehand be very open about it Right, like it'd be annoying if you walked into a restaurant, ate a meal, you didn't understand that you had to pay for it and then you left. And then they were like, where's your payment? We all understand in the restaurant, you're going to feed me and I'm going to pay you. That's our agreement. It's good. So I'm not upset when the bill comes, right? But if I sat down at a friend's table and they did that, I'd

 

44:35 - 45:04

Abigail - Guest: be really upset. So understand, like make it clear, you know? And parents are afraid of this negotiation, like, oh, but that seems so cold. Like, you know, they should just want to do it. But actually being open about the negotiation helps your child actually stick the landing. And it helps them build self-confidence and helps them know how to, you know, make sure to take care of other people. And it's not this murky, weird, gaslady territory.

 

45:04 - 45:35

Cheryl-Host: Yes, yes. Oh, I love that. That's so good. Okay. Oh, I think we could do like 3 more episodes. So I'm just going to respect the time that are people driving back and forth from work. But I will ask 1 more before we get into where we find you, is that if you could just wave your magic wand and you hear a parent say, I'm done, I just want these teenage years to be over, which just breaks my heart when I hear that. I just, I can't wait till it's done. I can't wait till they're 18

 

45:35 - 45:46

Cheryl-Host: and out of the house. What's 1 thing that you could say that would just shift it a little bit for them? Just give them a little bit of light that they could go with.

 

45:49 - 45:49

Abigail - Guest: 1 thing.

 

45:50 - 45:52

Cheryl-Host: You can do 2 if you want.

 

45:52 - 46:08

Abigail - Guest: No, no, I'm just thinking, you know, when a parent is in that place, they're hurt. They feel tired. They feel betrayed. They're feeling sad. There's not enough coming back for them.

 

46:08 - 46:11

Cheryl-Host: And it is such

 

46:11 - 46:48

Abigail - Guest: a hard place. And I just want to say, I think all of us have been there. And some of us spend more time than others but I don't know that there's a parent in the world who's not ever felt that and so I want to say a I think the most important thing I want to say really first of all is like you are not alone. Like if you're feeling that way, it is such a normal feeling. And what you do next matters. Because as we started this conversation, our feelings are not 100% true. And they

 

46:48 - 47:18

Abigail - Guest: are not everything. Your feeling is pointing you towards a value, it's pointing you towards potential actions and that's what matters. So if you feel that way, what's your next action gonna be? Are you gonna snipe at your kid or be pissed at them or say no, you can't go to that thing Or are you going to say hey? I'm really missing you. I know you've been really interested in baseball lately Would you like me to go to the park with you or would you like me to take you to a game or do you want to

 

47:18 - 47:55

Abigail - Guest: look up online and watch something online for free? Like there's so many levels at which you don't if it's like the money is the issue then do it that way you know there's like a million different ways to say like if I'm unhappy about this it means what I'm wanting is that. What's 1 action I could take that would result potentially in the result of that that I'm looking for rather than complaining about this that I'm getting that I don't like. I would say, take that feeling, go to the bathroom, look at yourself in the mirror

 

47:55 - 48:07

Abigail - Guest: and go, my feeling is understandable, I am not alone. What am I going to do next to turn that feeling into an action that will result in a different feeling? That's it.

 

48:07 - 48:29

Cheryl-Host: I'm so glad I asked that question. That was just like the magic potion. I just love how you answered that. Thank you Wow, oh Abigail, where can we find you? I know people are listening going, I need to talk to this woman and I need to talk to her now. So where can we find you? How can I know you? But tell us all the things about Abigail Walt.

 

48:29 - 49:12

Abigail - Guest: Yes. So you can go to mother flipping awesome.com and we offer resets for parents. So every month we do different resets, you know, on different subjects, whether it's strong-willed kids or teenagers or our own parenting, you know, trauma, intergenerational trauma, whatever we're coming in with. And we also offer a three-month reset for parents of teens that is to guide parents exactly into a place where you can be in confident leadership throughout these years and we cover everything from substances to anxiety to mental health to life skills to peer pressure to you know our own taking care

 

49:12 - 49:45

Abigail - Guest: of ourselves to connection and how to stay connected to like all 20 different life skills we as parents need for dealing with troubled teens or teens who are troubling us to just everything. So it's a 3 month, hold your hand, private help through with me every week and then also group sessions every week. So that would be a great way for parents of teens to do that. So you can go to motherflippingawesome.com or motherflippingawesome.com slash reset to learn about our resets. And then of course, there's the podcast for those of you who want to listen to

 

49:45 - 49:48

Abigail - Guest: podcasts. So you can check out the Mother Flipping Awesome podcast.

 

49:49 - 50:07

Cheryl-Host: I'm going to put all the links in the show notes. Abigail, I don't know how to thank you because this has been such a great conversation. We need more people like you and thank you for the work you do. Thank you for coming to see us and have a conversation with us. And I think we just might have to do this 1 more time.

 

50:08 - 50:11

Abigail - Guest: Thank you. I would be delighted. I'm honored. Thank you so much.

 

50:11 - 50:30

Cheryl-Host: Thank you for listening to Teen Minds Redefined and you will find everything in the show notes. We'll see You

 

 

 

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