#53 . "He Said, She Said: The Essential Guide to Self-Discovery During Divorce" with Nigel Smart

In this transformative episode of "Teen Minds Redefined," we invite Nigel Smart, a seasoned entrepreneur and author, to share his expertise on navigating the challenges of divorce. Join us as we delve into the importance of self-awareness and self-care for parents during one of life’s toughest transitions. This episode is the first chapter in our "He Said, She Said" series, where we provide insights and strategies to help you reclaim your personal power and foster resilience as you embark on this journey. Stick around for a special announcement at the end!

Teen Minds Redefined Guest Episode - Nigel smart and Cheryl Pankhurst – 2024/10/17 15:43 EDT – Transcript

Attendees

 

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Welcome to another episode of Teen Minds redefined where we really strive to redefine what your relationship with your teenager, and all the challenging issues, you may be going through with them, including things like divorce.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Pause Editor. Thank you. Welcome to another episode of Teen Minds redefined where we strive to f help you redefine your relationship with your teenager and we have real raw conversations about the toughest challenges. You may be going through with your teenager and today is going to be a little different I have experts on here all the time and we talk about Strategies to Help with Your Teenager to Support and Resources. But today we're talking about you. It's all about you today.

Cheryl Pankhurst: So we have Nigel Smart and I will introduce him. And then we will go from there. A serial entrepreneur and scientist with over 30 years of success in biotech and pharmaceuticals. Now, focuses on coaching, men through divorce as a best-selling author keynote speaker. And advocate for leadership, Nigel helps men, overcome the emotional challenges of divorce and rebuild extraordinary lives through mindset transformation. His signature framework powerhouse performance empowers clients to recover thrive and achieve personal, and professional excellence, Nigel's recent books, bouncing back from divorce with vitality and purpose and the unexpected leader offer strategies for dads and those navigating life toughest, transitions, Welcome, Nigel, Smart. I'm great.

Nigel Smart: Hey Cheryl. How you doing? That's A really nice intro. I'm flattered. Thank you.

Cheryl Pankhurst: This is so exciting. And the reason this is a little different today is instead of, like I said, focusing on your kids today, When we go through, The toughest issues and today being divorce. We know. This has to start with You as parents need the resources. Really know that there are people behind you, who are there to help and support you. And we don't come at this, from reading a newspaper article. Nigel, and I have a little experience when it comes to divorce. I'm divorced twice and Nigel. How many times you divorced? There you go.

Nigel Smart: Me too.

00:05:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: So we found something in common here and

Cheryl Pankhurst: We really thought when we started talking that there is very different perspectives and so we're going to call this. she said so we can share our own stories and share what we think the very first priority. To support you in divorce, whether you're uncoupling navigating, it thinking about it in the middle of it. If you have had a really tough time with it and you need to backpedal and you need some support. We're here. And so like I said, we're calling this, he said she said and we will start with this is chapter one of the divorce story and if you stick around at the end of this episode, we do have a surprise event to share with you. So Nigel, what, let's dive in because we have so many things that we could I think talk for six months straight on this. And we really want to narrow it down because we have thought about The.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Most important thing to start with when you are divorcing separating. And what do you think that is Nigel?

Nigel Smart: Without a shadow of a doubt. Cheryl. It's self-awareness and self-care.

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: It's something that I can say. Most guys, talking from a man's perspective, we don't do very well at all. In fact, we're really hopeless at it. And we had to go off at the deep end or, the usual stories that I hear is, they have revenge sex and goodness knows what else, which is ridiculous. We're not very mature about it. We overreact where our self-esteem is really dented and we don't really take good care of ourselves. we either over indulging, in a lot of disempowering things, drugs. This is what I find with men. We were very angry. we think that we've been wronged in some ways we don't take for responsibility for what's going on. And we don't take an accounting.

Nigel Smart: An accounting of what's gone on. And I really think that that's the start of the self-care. You have to actually evaluate, Where am I right now? And how did I get here? And I think, once you start to do that, then that provides a really nice foundation for you to be able to say. Okay, let's build forward. That's our old story. And how we're going to move things forward. So, what about you?

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah, I find, in my situation and

Cheryl Pankhurst: most women I talk to actually, Have been the to be The ones who have left. And so, thought that nothing could be worse than this Always got to be better on the other side. And sometimes we jump into some decisions, we jump into, Really not having a lot of thought about how we actually separate how we actually uncouple and what that really looks like. And one thing I would love to say to start is and when this happened for me, I was very much at fault in knowing that I was leaving. Before anybody else knew I was leaving.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And so what that meant for me is We all know when there's loss there's a grieving process. Fear and flight, and anger, and resentment. and all of, the seven stages of grief. But because I had already gone through that in my head, I had navigated all of that. in the sense that when it was time to leave, My husband at the time. Had not gone through any of those stages. and this is, being super vulnerable and super honest here. And so whenever he reacted To something in anger.

Nigel Smart: Yes.

Cheryl Pankhurst: It validated things for me. See that,…

Nigel Smart: Absolutely.

Cheryl Pankhurst: that's why I left that's what but that's so the most unfair thing I could have done.

Nigel Smart: Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And it's definitely hindsight is 2020, but that's why we have these conversations, had I allowed him the time and the space and the grace to go through some of these stages first. We would have had a much. calmer easier. Uncoupling, they call it. It would have been better for the kids.

00:10:00

Nigel Smart: Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: It would have been better for our in-laws and our friends. And the people who felt like they had to be loyal and so I think when it comes to that part, you're right The self-care. Is going to be very different for both people in the relationship. And I also wonder Is there a difference in?

Cheryl Pankhurst: Why men react the way they do. Why they're not very good in your eyes. They're not very good at self-care. what is that?

Nigel Smart: Right. We?

Nigel Smart: We're not very good at opening up in a classical way. In the way that ladies do. We don't like to appear. Remember, we're still working with a Paleolithic brain here in the civilian years old, with a hunter-gatherers. And despite the women's movement of the 60s, blah, blah, most men still believe that the Grand Protector. It doesn't matter. We all live in to income homes, these days, unless you're a single parent.

Nigel Smart: and the mouse man, still see themselves as a great protector, and, that's an inherent cultural thing evolution that we've had for millennia. And so, to expect us to get rid of that within 20 years or 30 years. It's not really, realistic, one of the things that that men feel is guilt. Even if they've been wronged, we feel tremendous guilt. how did this happen to us? the great providers were a great lover. We're a great father, where they're Superman

Nigel Smart: They thought me of me as a superman and now I'm not the Superman. So I brew, egos are bruise, is it a lot of ego? And one of the things that, I had to do was because it came out of blue for me is actually because I'm a mindset person, like And I've been in around this stuff for 20 or 30 years. Now is, I had to really look at myself and say, Okay, What went down here, what can I take responsibility, for what things can I do better? And as I went through, if you like my life, I started to put things in boxes. This is when I start to compartmentalize things and on the road to recovery, I think this is vital that you start to address things and put things in boxes because country to popular opinion, we can't multitask nine things at once.

Nigel Smart: And we have to deal with one thing at a time. And the thing that we focus on is usually the things that we become successful at accomplishing. So you have to identify the various boxes, where it's health, your relationships, your work your finances, because each one of those is a stressor and as we know in modern society today if the figures that we're supposed to believe are true, whether it's global or here in the US and North American including Canada, 70% of people are suffering from anxiety and stress. Or depression. And men have the highest suicide rate of anybody right now. I think it's three to one over women, and vet veterans that are being in,

Cheryl Pankhurst: One.

Nigel Smart: actually in the Gulf War even more. So, We have to get over.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: We have to get Dealing with What can I take responsibility for? Because if I'm gonna throw it all back at the other person, What's gonna happen here is we're gonna end up combingling our stories. I have a story and you as a woman has a story. and then…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: what happens is that we end up justifying our actions because we mingled our individual narratives and you end up Taking the story that you've thrown at me. And I can conjoin that into my story and now I end up using that to justify my reactions to you and is reactions. And that's one of the things that we've got to get our heads around. We need to understand that we do have control over our minds. and if we do that on a conscious level, rather than a subconscious level, Then we can respond rather than react.

00:15:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: To these very heated situations and what to teach I teach women too. I get a lot of guys, obviously. And that's the topic today. she said I would tell guys, What did she say? What that triggered you Because we're all responding, we're all react. we're all jumping up and down in the air because we've been triggered, which is creating a feeling and emotion, which is creating an action and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mmm.

Nigel Smart: our actions are reactive rather than responsive And so I say to people we've talked about this before I call it language augmentation, What I mean by that is You say something to me and I hear it but did I really hear it? And what I teach guys is take a deep breath. Do the five, four, three, two, one, sort of tool use that or one to ten, breathe and step back and ask yourself the question. What did she really say to me? Another explanation for what I think? I just heard. and if you do that two or three times, what I found is that the energy level comes down and you get a more

Nigel Smart: Reasonable interpretation of what you think or what you may have heard. And it's often quite different.

Nigel Smart: It's often quite different. Guys. That I can't speak for.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: I can't get inside a woman's head to that extent. you can catch the ball here and tell me whether or not, I'm right. Have a big problem even when they see the writing on the wall. Of saying. my God, it was me. You…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: and those famous words I'm sorry I didn't realize don't come out of the mouth. And that's one of the things that we've got to try. And I don't say, train people to say, but we need to enlighten people such that they can without feeling a loss of their self-esteem. Actually share that with the other person. And then we want to create a new story.

Cheryl Pankhurst: and I think one thing about taking, I call it radical responsibility for how things went down. Is you now have control. If you have taken full responsibility,…

Nigel Smart: Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: for whatever went down, in whatever way, shape or form, it doesn't matter. Even if you had zero control over, what's happening. If you still take full radical responsibility, the control is back in your hands and…

Nigel Smart: Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: you feel safe when you're out of control, you feel very unsafe And I think even taking a deep breath. When I talk to women about Pause, take the pause, just take the pause. Notice what it is that you're actually hearing or thinking or feeling and if you're feeling some resistance, there's nothing wrong with saying. I just need to take five.

Nigel Smart: Time out.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Just five minutes. Because once I, Stop and I notice it and I pause and I feel it. Then I can choose what I'm going to say.

Nigel Smart: Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: I can respond as opposed to react to what I'm going to say and I mean that's in any relationship, but I think when you are head to head and really feeling I know you said men can and I've noticed the same thing can compartmentalize, and I would even say this, In any way, shape or form in any relationship I've been in because I can have a complete disagreement. With my partner. And they can just go golfing or go with their friends or continue on with their work. And I'm in here, steaming smoke coming out of my ears. I can't focus on anything. Everything I do is going to be about that argument.

Nigel Smart: Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: So, actually love the skill. I wish I had the skill to compartmentalize but

Nigel Smart: But that's something for both groups to we talked about self-care on the opening. Self-care is, You've got to rest the mind, one of the things that is coming out of, Cognitive neuroscience research now, is that we actually do need to rest our minds because if we don't, then it creates more anxiety. So what I say to women too is look unique time away to do stuff. That helps you to switch off. Relax, whatever it can walked the dog. It can go for a guarantor golf. In my case, I get in one of my old cars, and I'll go for a drive for 40 minutes. I'll do a sunset drive, and I'll come back and

00:20:00

Nigel Smart: I'm a different guy.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: I've got a smile on my face. I feel better now. Can I deal with my issues in a better way? Then of course I can. And we're beginning to understand. Now, they're on neurological reasons for this. It's because the angry thoughts, consume five times more energy, then good thoughts. And when we have angry thoughts and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: we don't deal with them, It's actually damaging our brains. We actually know that.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: There's some wonderful work coming out of South Africa. Dr. Caroline Leaf. Who says that, in creating you have it for yourself, it takes about 63 days, and there are five stages that you have to go through. what I found interesting about that is, for years. I've been telling guys, NASA did some experiments years ago. That said it, took 33 days to get a habit. they put the glasses on in the astronauts and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: they rewired their brains, that has gone to a different level now and what Dr. Leak is saying, is that it takes around 60 60, some days to create new habits. And when we create new habits, is because we're creating new physical structures in our brains, this is absolutely radical revolutionary Cheryl because now, In terms of a biochemistry neurobioscience, whatever you want to call it. We can actually say just going to the gym If I do this. I'm going to get these results. So, if I think What is it doing to my chemistry? Which is causing me to need antidepressants. Is that whole loop now?

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: Can we smash the antidepressants loop? As we can actually do this for ourselves.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mm-hmm

Nigel Smart: But it requires us to be rather than subconsciously aware most of the time as you know, we're doing subconscious things we're just on autopilot. That's part of the problem.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: when we're working in a subconscious way, we're not actually in tune with the things that we're doing and saying,

Cheryl Pankhurst: And we were talking about pausing and responding and reacting when you are triggered. I mean, I'm sure most people have heard flight and that's your frontal cortex respond In that fight or flight? That is your trigger. So if you can start to recognize, I'm feeling all right. My chest with this conversation or my throat, feels tight, or I'm sweating, or my hands are sweating, or When you become aware of what your body is telling you. And when you can become aware of what your body is, telling, you can train your body, say, Okay.

Nigel Smart: Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: It is a three-second breath. Can change a conversation. This is not This is literally a three-second breath, can change your conversation and listen in chapters two, three and four. When we get into this, we're going to be talking about all the people who are involved. This not just the couple, we're going to be talking about the inlaws,…

Nigel Smart: Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: the outlaws, the children, the friends, and these conversations. These strategies to just take a breath, is going to affect all of those relationships. Not just the immediate. Ones. So, when we talk about, Self-care for men. sometimes I think men are like, I'm not gonna sit cross-legged and put my fingers up like this and have the music in my ears and sound bad, I'm not doing that. I it, can't do it.

Cheryl Pankhurst: But what does it actually mean? what can a guy is saying to you Nigel? My wife literally just left me yesterday. Walked through the door. Took everything. And he's He's frozen. He doesn't know What would you say to him Here's a list of two or three things, you can try. you can do now. what do we say?

Nigel Smart: But, I kind of touched on this a little bit already. I mean, one of the things that's very, very important is that you manage to disrupt the pattern that you're in and the pattern that you're in is as you say grief or, anxiety that's been brought on by what's happened. You've been triggered. And so you've got to do things that will calm me down, I'm a bit really big believer in using affirmations to do that and to construct self-directed affirmations what I mean by that. I mean things that have that will empower, I have one that I've shared with my group on winning, I'm a winner, I'm a winner in my life, I'm a winner in my job, I'm a winner in my finances, I'm a Winner, you get on a elliptical bikes something in the gym and start chanting that. I've shown that I can get my

00:25:00

Nigel Smart: Right down. Yeah. I mean little things like that so you're effectively,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mmm.

Nigel Smart: that's my mind. Affecting how my body functions and what did I say before? that through our minds, we can affect our body chemistries, and it's a body chemistry, that's making us feel damn awful, which is why farmer companies can keep selling as drugs and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: get as addicted to drugs that they work. But in the long term, we need to get off them just like a painkiller. And so I'm a big thing about visioning.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: And I talk a lot about flipping the switch. But we do have the ability to flip this switch. One with compartmentalize the thing. So, all right, you're in a panic. So you've got to do some things. You've got to start loving yourself. You've got to start liking yourself. I don't mean in a narcissistic way, but you've got to say, Hey, I'm up, great guy. I look at what I've done. Taken inventory of your life, when I wrote my best-selling book on bouncing back from divorce, my publisher. Melanie said, I want you to write a brand list. I said, What the hell are you talking about now? She said, I want you to child from when you were five to Now. Write down, 50-60 things that you might be proud of things that you've done in your life. And so, I started.

Nigel Smart: And then post it on the group, which was the author's group and I did. And then people, when I go back on the next week they said When I did that for myself, I thought, Wow, heck I've done a bit But when I had somebody else, tell me, look at you right now. You feel like you're a piece of s***, excuse my French, but You feel like a piece of sound,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: This is what you've done. Are there. Some things on the debit side? Absolutely. You wouldn't be in the mess that you're in, but remember it takes two to tango. And if the other person's being honest, And that's something you have to be, is honest with yourself, you've got to be truthful to yourself. This is what I'm saying is when you look at your initial old story, you've got to be very truthful and honest with yourself and be very granular. And if you look at those five or six things are important in your life and say, Okay let's examine everything. And when you do that, You can actually start to find the things that I'm so proud of that or I could have done that better. and you can start to say, Hey, If I make these changes, am I going to be the person that I want to be, or that I would like to be

Nigel Smart: I might and you start to vision there. So affirmations visioning exercise, taking care of yourself just from a diet point of view, It's a holistic idea Cheryl. It's not like And that's it,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: And it's habitual, I try to sell guys. When you get up in the morning, What's my routine? what do you do when you get up in the morning? I fall out of bed and then whatever. I said, let's try this. When you get up in the morning and you're in the bathroom and you've got the mirror in front of you, Who do you? and what you say to that person. if you have an affirmation and you start saying that to that person, And then you shut your eyes. And you vision the day that you want to have.

Nigel Smart: And then you do whatever it is, you do the next step of shave or go the bathroom or have you and then you have a hot shower. And then you come out and you scream at the top of your life. What you're gonna do that morning? Five things? What are you gonna do that morning? I'm gonna I'm do that. I'm gonna do this. And then Put Whatever you're gonna wear. When you go out and go out there doing say I'm gonna have a nine. I'm gonna have a nine day today. I like guys to catherize himself when I first meet them.

00:30:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: I'll say Why do you feel right now? give me a number one to ten. I had the one that was most shocking to me, was a guy told me. He was nice guy. He said, I'm I almost fell off my chair. Most guys will say I'm a five or six The egotistical ones will say, I'm a 10. All right,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mmm.

Nigel Smart: the coffee one so that they don't realize, that's half the problem That's just not being realistic, but most guys are around five or…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: six and I always tell them. Look, We've got a shift, your perception of yourself to a seven because that's average. And then I hit them with. You want to be average and they say, Now I saw what are you prepared to do to move the needle forward? I need a process. And then we start to build the process. It's hard to build the process of Changing or…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mmm.

Nigel Smart: pushing things forward. and the way we do that you do that, I'm sure with your clients is you build new habits and that means Every Every week.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yes.

Nigel Smart: Every month for months until it imprints. I mentioned the things I've been reading about 63 days.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mm-hmm

Nigel Smart: To fully imprint and create a thought, or create a memory, it is a real structure within your brain.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: once we start to see that that's like building a muscle in your arm at the gym, Now, we can say, Hey, yeah, if I do this, just the same as I'm doing it in the gym. Then I am going to shift who I am. And as I'm sure we're going to talk about creating an inflatable because I call it, which is your life. You're right, plan going forward. But how does that square with where you're Experiences are.

Cheryl Pankhurst: I completely agree with you and I think too when it comes to creating new habits, you said, you have to fall in love. Or maybe for the first time you have to fall in love with yourself. You have to become your own best friend and…

Nigel Smart: Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: anytime you hear, these thoughts coming in, can you stop and say, When I talk to my daughter, like that, what I talk to my best friend like that? No s*** way. Would you ever do that? So it's time to start doing that and it's time to start, when you have to create these new habits, If you're sitting at home, I really don't feel like going for a walk. I just don't want to go for a walk. I just don't want But I've made a promise to myself that I'm going to go for a walk. So it's a relevant weather. I want to it's irrelevant. I said I made a promise to myself and I'm going

Cheryl Pankhurst: and so when you go even if you're walk and I hate walking, I don't want to be here but you did That changes your brain too because your brain doesn't go back to sitting on the couch, your brain goes back to you. look what I did, I promised myself, I would do it, and I did it. And now,…

Nigel Smart: Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: my brain has one new little wire there, and then when you do it again on Tuesday and…

Nigel Smart: Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: you do it again on Wednesday, it's unbelief. And it doesn't have to be an hour, it can be five minutes, but if you promised yourself That you would do this for yourself. You have to keep those promises to you.

Nigel Smart: But it's a repetition as you know, that's important because if you go to the gym for a week and then you don't go. I mean, one of the things I found recently is, I had some surgery on my back and so I wasn't able to go and do my martial arts, which I absolutely adore doing And actually trying to get back into it now a physical strain on my body. Because I've come down the other side of the mountain somewhere and I'm gonna have to build it back up. It's the same with the changes that we're making other areas in our thought processes and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: how we're dealing with things. If we don't continually reinforce If we don't continually reinforce, we select back, we lose it all. It's like we never started. it's in many respects. this is the problem. People have with diets. they'll keep going for 60 days and then they get bored with it and then they sleep back and then they wonder why they put it all back on. It's because we didn't get over that threshold. I always see being a scientist, I always see things in terms of energy thresholds, maybe for a reaction to go, he has to have a certain amount of energy and it goes over like a threshold. it's like a curve. And if you don't get over that curve,…

00:35:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yep.

Nigel Smart: once it's over the reaction will run on its own. You don't have to apply any more heat or any more energy. It runs.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: It's like water running down a mountain, which what's once it gets over the peak. Once the reservoir comes up and it goes over the top. And the water will run down with gravity and it's the same way with what we're doing. It's like I see everything like a chemical reaction. once you get that a flow, it becomes easier. And then as I say, Look what we're trying to do here is to create a lifestyle change for you. because by your lifestyle and it's like, you say, you've got a night with yourself, but you discipline yourself that? No, I can't not go to the gym now. I can't not do these exercises because I know everything that I've invested will be lost. And so you create a little bit of tension in yourself. It's a good tension.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yep.

Nigel Smart: Because that helps you forces. it holds your feet to the fire and I really believe that that's important. and what I was going to go and say, once I was listening to, you was the self-talk That we all have that is something that we've got a. I would say get rid of, but we've got to get Control over that in a monologue because it really destroys us.

Nigel Smart: people say, I don't want to think about things and I say, Look, It's okay to have a bad thought because this idea of walking around going happy happy. Everything's wonderful. Even when it you're never gonna convince yourself that everything's happy and wonderful when, it isn't It.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: It's okay to say it isn't but then you have to say and what am I going to do about it? And it's been described by some people there.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: You want to go into their freak out zone and freak out and kick and scream and cry. I'll do whatever he is think and that's just getting rid of That's an acknowledgment of what it is you're trying to deal with and then once you do that now you can step sideways and say Okay and now what's the plan? as you…

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: Cheryl it becomes back to the plan which is the process which is that stairway to heaven so to speak. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah. Listen, all of this is absolutely vital when you're going through a separation or divorce But this is the work that stays with you forever.

Nigel Smart: Yes.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And then I love the word equanimity and it's just Once you build these skills. So And you are just so comfortable with yourself. You are so solid in yourself. Anything can come at you and you have the shield.

Nigel Smart: Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And, yep, the feeling's will penetrate and you totally have to recognize the feelings. You can't put them on a shelf. Yep. I'm pissed off right now. that feels like my chest is on fire. I'm so angry right now. I'm gonna journal it or I'm gonna go for a walk or I'm gonna play my music loud or whatever. but I'm not hiding it. I'm recognizing it,…

Nigel Smart: Now.

Cheryl Pankhurst: and I'm moving it through because when

Nigel Smart: And I was gonna say, if you do hide, it Cheryl just to chime in and then I'll drop back out again…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: if you do, hide it that time out, that's tantamount to put in a Band-Aid on it and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah,…

Nigel Smart: we all know what happened to the Band-Aid it comes off.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Exactly.

Nigel Smart: Back to you.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And, I've been doing this work forever and I probably started when I was struggling in my marriage when I started, getting into yoga and meditation and It's so funny, because the big cell is not. If you do this on Monday, Tuesday gonna feel great Wednesday. You're gonna feel even better. No. What's gonna happen is? and I have a very strong practice with this because I can't survive without it. I literally cannot survive without it. And what I noticed is I'll come home. And I ran into traffic and then the train came. So I was late for my doctor's appointment and then they canceled it and the blood work went terrible and I mean 20 things could have gone off the rails.

Cheryl Pankhurst: and I get home and I'm just nothing. I had more time for my audible book. I had more time to think about my podcast ideas, your brain literally just goes, and and it's there forever. And I cannot stress enough and I started off. I I cannot sit still so, my meditations for a long time were Five minutes. And in that five minutes, I still did the grocery list and planned the dinner menu. But then I did six minutes. and then I did seven minutes and what I noticed is when I stopped doing it I felt a little like,

00:40:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: My day's not starting off so I wonder what that is

Nigel Smart: Yes.

Cheryl Pankhurst: There it is. And it can be anything and journaling is so I think underrated you keep something in your pocket.

Nigel Smart: Yes, it is.

Cheryl Pankhurst: You are getting, fired up about something, it is a scientific proven fact that when you get it out onto the paper out of your voice and…

Nigel Smart: Out.

Cheryl Pankhurst: a recorder, it doesn't matter. You move that energy through.

Nigel Smart: Freak out in the love zone as it's called.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yes. Yeah,…

Nigel Smart: Three Cat in the Love Zone, Getting Out.

Cheryl Pankhurst: and nobody's reading it.

Nigel Smart: And I love that terminology which again. Is a tributed to Dr. Lee, I think It makes you smile and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: it makes you feel. It's okay. I want to stress again. The thing that I was not Totally appreciative of is holding it back. It's actually hurting his stabbing ourselves with a knife, but it's inside, and it's in our brains. And because of the scans that we can do. Now we're actually starting to see That, that's a truth. that's been a dirty lie with kid at ourselves, especially guys, tough it through. We'll tough it through, I will never show it and intuitively, know. Holding everything in, we'll probably gonna have an aneurysm no explode. it's actually worse than that. It's actually because we're creating negative structures in our brains.

Nigel Smart: And that is, altering our body chemistry. And that is, accounting for, the reason why the pharmaceutical companies are making so much money and to the presence because they figured out that's what's going on. I'm not against pharmaceutical companies.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mm-hmm

Nigel Smart: Because as, I might have a background for 30, 40 years with understanding, we've got to take responsibility for ourselves. and I think,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: guys could be

Nigel Smart: Taking much greater responsibility in how they deal with that internal monologue.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: and as you said, taking time for yourself, I was in a conference call today and I'm sharing with somebody else and they were saying that actually Tank, 15 minutes a day and actually just I think it daydream Don't do shopping list, don't do what you're suggesting but they dream.

Cheryl Pankhurst: No.

Nigel Smart: But what's interesting about this is, I remember reading some years ago that I think it was Google had if you like playing rooms or rooms at their officers in Palo Alto in California and they had places where people could go to if you like to daydream and at the time we all thought. that's a big gimmicky but maybe actually he wasn't To some extent.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: I mean, there's obviously abuse that can go on there, but like anything else, but

Cheryl Pankhurst: The strategy today to making your lists is guided meditation. That was my strategy for a long time…

Nigel Smart: Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: because I just kept making less and to do, But yeah, and the reason we're spending this an entire episode, I've done four, five episodes on divorce and parenting, And in that hour and they've been fantastic. but in that hour it's like Okay this and this it's almost like we skip over the self-care and then you get into a situation where So lost. 1,000,…

Nigel Smart: It's the most important thing there.

Cheryl Pankhurst: before you call the lawyer before you separate your money.

Nigel Smart: Yeah, the most important thing. It's three months.

Cheryl Pankhurst: My gosh, 1,000 person.

Nigel Smart: Formally mental thing you're in chaos. You've got to take stock of yourself. Otherwise you're just shooting blanks off into it's like anything else. Do you actually want to tune the sights of the rifle? You actually want to be able to focus on the target that you're aiming for.

00:45:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: I know that's very very sort of graphical or very very clinical But I don't think there's anything wrong with that, if that helps you to shift yourself from this broken,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: No.

Nigel Smart: emotional mess, which is…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: what I mean. we're different sexes, different men, and women. But we know what feeling a mess feels like when it hits you and you have no control and then it's a case of grasping control. It's like you're being tossed around in a boat on the sea. Do you leave the sales up? No you take the sales down, you try and stabilize the boat. anything like that that allows you to stabilize yourself because you cannot have rational thought when you're a mess. And so that's the most important thing and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: No.

Nigel Smart: you have to be That awareness creates the opportunity for your self-care roadmap. And then on that,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: No.

Nigel Smart: you can start to build these foundational. I think

Cheryl Pankhurst: And I think too, really good point is there could be a great deal of animosity between you and your ex But you did love each other. One time.

Nigel Smart: At one time we did. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: So maybe even before you get into your, mediations and your meetings and your discussions at things. Can you say? Have they gone through these stages of grief, don't have I given them enough time. Because you did love each other ones. I given them that respect in that time? And can you even visualize? three things that you actually did love about them before you have these conversations and it might be really tough. And I'm not talking about

Cheryl Pankhurst: Addiction issues or abuse issues that no,…

Nigel Smart: Violence or anything like.

Cheryl Pankhurst: that's off the table for me. that's a disclaimer. This is your regular run of the mill but I just feel like if we can really put ourselves, In the position of somebody we loved one day. in the position of someone…

Nigel Smart: Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: who may always be in your life because You could be parenting for the next 40 years. It doesn't end. And can you navigate that with some grace and ease for yourself for your ex partner? And I'll tell you something I did and I don't know. This was the biggest thing for my mental health because we were in a relationship for 27 years. Married for 20 years, And so high school sweetheart, I was, 17.

Cheryl Pankhurst: When we met and so when we separated, I had not done. Anything alone. I went for my parents house, I got married, we bought a house. We had kids never traveled by myself, really, none of that. And the one thing I did that I fell in love with and I loved to do now is I took myself out for dinner. To a really nice restaurant.

Nigel Smart: Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: It is how many people will say to you Go to a restaurant by myself. Are you kidding? There's no way. Listen, there is a strength and a power. To getting there.

Nigel Smart: Yes.

Cheryl Pankhurst: You take the corner table. Put your phone away. You want to take a book for a few minutes to ease in? That's fine. But it goes, back in your bag and People watch you take in the energy. And it takes so much courage. But you are on a date with yourself because you are starting to fall in love with yourself.

Nigel Smart: And that's an easy thing to do. And what does it do for you? It gives you a dopamine hit that makes you feel good.

Cheryl Pankhurst: God.

Nigel Smart: And if you think about that, what else can you do to give you a little dopamine? Who hits,

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: what are their low hanging fruit? Things that you can do for yourself that are easy. That we're not talking about massive winds, like, closing the deal or, winning something or, some great achievement. We're talking about what silly little things. Can you do that? you've got up in the morning and you've made your bed.

Nigel Smart: Look in the morning and you've made your bed and you've gone out and you've worked out and you feel fantastic now because you've come to yourself up and you've done your meditations, you've done your affirmations and your vision, the day and it's gonna be a 9.5 and you're gonna go out and everybody tells you now, you look fantastic. I mean, how hot is that to do? I used to have a saying when you feel good, you work good. And you…

00:50:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: When you look good, you feel good when you feel good you work good. And I think that's such a small thing. I think I got that from one of my lady from one of my 80 year colleagues because that was a time when everybody used to dress up to go to work which they don't anymore.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And then, when you go to bed, Have that journal beside your bed? And write down all the winds of the day.

Nigel Smart: Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Even if it was just I got up and…

Nigel Smart: Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: had a shower today. I don't care…

Nigel Smart: And I'll take it once.

Cheryl Pankhurst: what it is. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: I'll say that one step further.

Nigel Smart: What three things are you grateful for?

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: three things are you grateful for? I was once a seminar with a very famous coach that we both know. and he said, we set ourselves up for failure each day because the expectations that we have the day so huge Most mortal people cannot ever attain them. and he said, He interviewed her down and out guy one day and he said to him, what Makes you feel good. He says, I wake up, I'm above ground. And the moral of the story there is pretty obvious. He said if you can feel great about the fact that you are alive and above ground, you're not in a box under the soil. That's a great day. And how many people?

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: In our society have taken health, for granted. I remember reading, Steve Jobs books. And one of the most influential people of the first 20th 20th century.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: And one of the things I think he died at 55 and I think one of the regrets he had was that, he'd actually

Nigel Smart: Sacrifice is health at times. because he was so driven in his ambitious to change and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: influence things in the world, which is commendable. but at the same time, there wasn't that balance there and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: No.

Nigel Smart: as a result, his health suffered which You can be the richest person in the world. But we've only got a certain amount of time and if you abuse that you're never going to get it back. And I think that's something that we need to remember.

Cheryl Pankhurst: That's right.

Nigel Smart: I tell my guys this when Look do you want to hang on to this negativity or do we want to toss it out, writing you play book? Devised, this new yellow brick road. What does your Emerald City look like? Who are we gonna take us on the journey?

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: Are you gonna take the Strawman? And Tin Man, and the lion? Whoever who are those people in your character in your story? On that yellow brick road to the Emerald City that you've got in your mind. That is your animal city, I think powerful to…

Cheryl Pankhurst: I love that.

Nigel Smart: That is creating that sense of? Yeah, there is a destiny that I'm going to chart now. Does it mean that it's gonna be a straight arrow? most things in life as we both, find out about backwards and forwards backwards and forwards backwards and forwards a bit like meandering river. A three steps forward,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: two steps forward. I know that in my life I feel totally blessed. Have I been through two divorces? Yeah, as it been painful, do I have Regrets somewhere disappointments. Yes. If I had time again. Would I do things slightly differently? I think most people would say. I do certain things differently. People that say that wouldn't do anything differently but do I still have respect for myself and my opinions and the things that I've done in my life and the answer to that is an own equivocal. Yes. And the reason why is I wouldn't be where I am now with the person that I'm manly in love with. Who is the most fantastic woman in my life? Probably will only ever be that person that went forward.

Nigel Smart: So I wouldn't have that life if I hadn't experienced what I had been through, just led me to this point. And so what we're trying to do here in Cheryl, I think is in both men and women that are listening to you podcast hope is to create that sense of. Yes, there is a destiny and your tomorrow isn't about what? You were yesterday, but certainly of tomorrow should build on the experiences of yesteryear with a great blueprint going forward.

00:55:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: And That we offer and will Has nothing to do with external resources. You don't have to depend on anything external.

Nigel Smart: Now.

Cheryl Pankhurst: To be. Winning and powerful and in love with yourself and moving forward. You will not recognize yourself in six months when you do the right thing. And this is where it starts like building the house. This is your foundation and like I said, we speak from complete experience and I'm so glad I went through these journeys because Like you, I wouldn't be able to help people now so all of this happened…

Nigel Smart: Yes.

Cheryl Pankhurst: because I needed to be here in this moment right now. Helping talking to you having these conversations. And this is just been

Cheryl Pankhurst: Amazing.

Nigel Smart: It's a writable lifetime and it's like a rocket to the stars and it's gonna be about what you want to be, what are you going to make it to be, and then saying Okay what do I need to actually get me to That next step in stone that next milestone,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: that's going to move me nearer, whatever that objective is. The one thing I've learned about life is and this is true in my life is,

Nigel Smart: The things are always out that the ultimate objective as it should be, I think is always over the horizon. You're not meant to meet. Your ultimate goal. Otherwise you're not stretching and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mmm.

Nigel Smart: what we're talking about here is about as growing as people. and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yep.

Nigel Smart: when you're going through this or when you've gone through it, one of the things that you should be committing yourself to is making yourself that better person that should be a driver for you, that should be a source of energy.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: That should be a source of your nuclear fuel so to speak that propels you forward.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: It's that something that says, Yeah. what am I going to do today? How am I going to change what am I gonna experience today? That should be exciting. You…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: another one of my coaches once told me a story, he said, I love my mother. I love it to death, but I live 2,000 miles away from it. And I said, that the rule about proximity is important in relationships and I said, So, how does that work for you? And he says, we make it and we'll make it happen, with modern technology and whatnot, but I can't have me living down the next street like we did, when we were growing up and I said, why? And he said, She's a psychic vampire.

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: and I said, Wow, He said Yeah, my mother's a sort of person. I love it daily and I always will, but

Nigel Smart: everybody in the world can be wrong. About everything.

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: It's whatever she's thinking everybody else is wrong. He said That is a form of energy that I can't be around.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yep.

Nigel Smart: and one of the things that we should share with people is look,

Nigel Smart: As you start to transition and you start to decide the things that are important in your life, in the things that you're going forward, and how are you going to assess whether you're successful and how you're going to access? Am I satisfied with where I am? You want to look around you and say who am I talking to? Who have I surrounded myself to? I always tell my clients.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: And I'm pretty ruthless about it. because again, through experience, we get to know this, don't we Cheryl You…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah, absolutely.

Nigel Smart: there's an old adage that, you are the son of the five or six people. He spent the most time,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mmm.

Nigel Smart: I think that's true, I'm not 100% buying on that, but one of the things that I have learned is take a look around at you. if you've got many a dozen people, there's probably three or four people there. probably this empowering. They're holding you back. Their questioning or…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: they saying things that you saying.

Nigel Smart: In one of my classes. I tell these guys, Who are you gonna lose out of your circle this month? To drop these people out of their circles.

01:00:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mmm.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: Who are you going to say?

Nigel Smart: No? You have to spend more time on yourself at this moment in time because you're in transition and you cannot spend your energy 15 different ways anymore. You have to be I suppose in Old World language selfish. Some people will see is that. But remember, You're only selfish. If you don't use that time that you're getting back, for frivolous, use, if you now using that time that you're going to get back by not saying yes to all these other people for meaningless things because they're not taking responsibility for their lives,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: you can put that back into your life and the people that really matter And it's a two-way thing.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: It's a two-way thing about our lives. It's

Nigel Smart: You shouldn't be putting out a battery every day that battery needs to be recharged I need judged. The fun thing about what we're doing here is certainly this Getting so much energy back from you we're sharing experiences. And we know what we're saying to each other with a different kind of flavor, but we know what we're saying to each other. We know the problems that we've experienced and how do you see that? I had it. I see that. But we're recognizing we're taking responsibility for it. And that's…

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: what we're trying to commit your listeners. you've got to take charge of who you really are. It's not easy.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: But the Sunni The sooner, you're on that journey. And again, I like to use the story format. I like to use the funny format. I like to use my Mickey Mouse one, I don't have a Mickey Mouse one, and I gonna be Yellow Brick Road, but we construct my yellow brick road together for you. And we can get you that, but you've got to do your part,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: I think We want to tell people that. There's a big piece that they're going to do themselves. A big piece of this is them. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: and knowing that, Between the four divorces in this room, We know We have been down. Probably every path you're going to go down or I've been down. We've been there. so, we understand

Cheryl Pankhurst: While we can't. Give you all the answers, you have all the answers, but what we can do. Is just guide you to the one next step forward, when it gets overwhelming and you have 7,000 things and all of this going on. we can just help you get to the one, what's one, very easy, next step, you can take in the right direction and you will never go wrong doing that never

Nigel Smart: It's one step at a time. it's putting for one foot in front of the other. But as we said at the outset, it's Look after yourself, be aware of what's going on. and then take responsibility for the things that you Can from your side. I think it's fair to say that you might meet.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: You might be met with that. The other person doesn't take responsibility. There's nothing you can do about that because you can only control yourself. and maybe that's something that you have to factor in and deal with Your lawyer will not. Solve those problems for you. These are humanity things.

Cheryl Pankhurst: No.

Nigel Smart: These are not legal issues and they will sort out that side for sure. And that's their game but they're not sorting out relationship issues and constantly talking about I'm really about in every aspect of my life. get actionable. Decide what it is? that's not right. Come up with a whole bunch of actionable items and then implement that. And I'm sure from what we've talked about before. I know that's true for you too.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah, and listen. It is hard as honest a god. It'll be one of the hardest things you ever go through 1,000 percent.

Nigel Smart: Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: We are not, brushing that aside By any means. but we got you

Nigel Smart: Absolutely.

Cheryl Pankhurst: this is the story of divorce and self-care is chapter one and Nigel and I have a big plan for chapter two, three and four, where we can really dive more into the story of your journey from beginning when you are shining your light and back in your space and we would love to invite you to virtual dinner party master class. Coming up. And what do you think about that Nigel?

01:05:00

Nigel Smart: I think it's exciting. I think the age of technology right now enables us to do things that we couldn't do even five years ago. I think one of the things that Covid didn't teach as much but it did teachers to be more resilient and creative. I know I through my business own online completely and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: that's some of the best times ever and I learned a lot of new things and learn I met a lot of new friends through that. I think this is a great opportunity. I think at some point we would like to do in person workshops I think that's something that you and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: I have talked about, but this idea of the dinner party, I think it's a great idea. I think if we can make it as interactive as possible that works on zoom,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mmm.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: And do a breakout rooms.

Nigel Smart: And we can actually make this over an hour or over a few hours where you can race questions and we can have many discussions and come back. That's something that I think would be fantastic.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And we will layer in different topics. We'll talk about parenting and…

Nigel Smart: Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: the kids and alienation and mediation the in-laws, the outlaws, your loyalties and your friendships moving forward, there's a lot of layers to this. There's a lot of as I said chapters to the divorce story,…

Nigel Smart: they're

Cheryl Pankhurst: and we just want to really lay down the foundation that this is Chapter One. You look after you first. And feel free to message get onto some of the comments. When you see the pot, we hear the podcast, ask your questions. Have your comments,…

Nigel Smart: yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: share your stories. We are so wanting to just Help as many people as possible. Get through this.

Nigel Smart: at the moment. There are so many people that are experiencing extreme anxiety. One of the things I'll throw in as a club kind of a closing thing is we've got technology that we're starting to embrace right now. Is going to impact our lives in ways that we cannot fully appreciate yet. We've got this Paleolithic brain as a couple of million years old, that comprocess things and it's been fantastic for the last hundred years is coaxed very very well with massive changes in the technology. Think about the things that have happened in the last century. But if you listen to the

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: Real experts, they say we're going to see more technological change in the next 10 years. Then we sit in a 100 years the pace of evolution is extremely rapid. It's exponential. One of the things that's going to get more and more difficult for us to deal with is our relationships. And obviously, dealing with our families dealing with divorces are dealing with preventing divorces.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: Hopefully, is going to be something that we're going to have to tackle arguably in different ways than we're having to deal with them at the moment. And so,

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: some people say we're in crisis right now, I'd like to think that if that's true, where we will be in four or five years, so now is the time to learn about this stuff, the audience with yourself, They have integrity. Walk your talk, Shift, your own personal paradigm and learn to thrive rather than survive. Because if you don't,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: the future could look pretty scary.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah, 1000% agree with you there. Nigel, I can't tell you how much I appreciate this conversation. your expertise. Our new relationship is just wonderful. I'm so grateful for it and grateful for the work that you are doing in this world. And we'll put all the details of how to connect with you, how to work with you and, of course, our dinner party. Invitations will go out soon. We'll be promoting that. And thank you again. I just don't know how this is, just an amazing and fun and I love it.