#60 A "He Said, She Said: Your Masterclass to Rethink How to Divorce" Cheryl & Nigel

In this compelling Masterclass  Cheryl Pankhurst sits down with author and life coach Nigel Smart to explore the challenges of co-parenting and divorce. They delve into navigating conflicting parenting styles, managing household rules, and building a supportive environment for your teens during times of transition.

Together, they uncover how to:

• Let go of what you can’t control in co-parenting dynamics.
• Support teens while navigating different household rules.
• Use mindfulness and journaling to stay grounded.
• Prioritize self-care to show up as your best self for your family.

✨ Ready for more? ✨ Check out the show notes for links to work with Nigel or Cheryl and access the FREE Resource Workbook that complements the Masterclass on thriving through co-parenting challenges. Start creating a stronger foundation for your family today!

#CoParentingTips #NavigatingDivorce #ParentingTeens #CoParentingChallenges #CustodyConflicts #SelfCareForParents #MindfulParenting #TeenMindsRedefined #NigelSmart #FreeResourceWorkbook

 

Cheryl Pankhurst: Absolutely. So, if you're wondering, first of all, I want to say that anything that Nigel and I are talking about tonight, it is in light that there is no abuse or addiction issues within your relationship or your divorce or your separation that would make things in a very different context. So this is our disclaimer just letting you know doesn't feel very typical when you're in it but your typical divorce separation situation.

00:05:00

Nigel Smart: Yeah. One in two,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Just so to let you know there and yeah I think it's…

Nigel Smart: one in two or if you believe in professional classes, 70% of us are going to go through this at least once.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: shocking indictment of matrimony. All right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: what 48% for first marriages and 70% for second marriages and…

Nigel Smart: Right. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: basic In our experience, we fit right into that little mold.

Nigel Smart: I'm happy now.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Absolutely. So, let's just talk about first why we decided to call it he said, she said, and we thought that was really important because Nigel and I as we continued to meet and talk about divorce and these issues, we realized that there was a very different perspective on each side. one partner, not necessarily gender specific, but another partner feels another way. They have a different perspective, they see things differently, they feel things differently. And so we thought it would be really interesting and…

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: informative and impactful to bring this to light because if we are not considering our ex's perspectives and where they are in the stages of this…

Nigel Smart: Right. I think so.

Cheryl Pankhurst: then we are really putting ourselves in a spot that doesn't need to be there. this can be a gamecher right Nigel? What do you think? Yeah.

Nigel Smart: And I really think that in true fashion we tend to get our blinkers on. We tend to be very myopic in terms of how things are affecting us because it is a very very personal thing. It's a very hurtful thing. it's something that I think both of us would say might start off okay but in the majority of cases it goes sour.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: I still believe that I'm very skeptical when I hear people say, " we had an amicable sex preparation and it went all hunky dory and all the rest of it." my own contention is then there was never a passion in that marriage.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm.

Nigel Smart: Because I can't believe that you can be amicable and walk away from somebody that you've spent a long time with and built assets, had children, etc.

Nigel Smart: I think that if you put a lot into the marriage then it has to be traumatic when it rips you apart. And I really do believe that. Now that's very contentious and that's fine and maybe you can all chime in and we see on X and vehemently disagree but that is the benefit of my experience. That's what I see from ladies and gentlemen as they send me notes on our site. So, I'm throwing that out as a point of debate. I think what you're saying, Cheryl, is absolutely on the money, which is why we thought it'd be fun to do this. We do see things differently. We're hormonally different.

Nigel Smart: we have our own internal prejudices in terms of what we think our roles are and that's exacerbated again in terms of the different stages of life that we go through and also today as we've noticed particularly in the electronic age this last 20 years where we've got millennials the back end of boomers. We've got Gen X. they're all and then the COVID 19 situation played into things and altered society's thinking too, especially in relation to childbirth.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: that has all added into sort of a big cooking pot of can anybody ever make any sense of this? Certainly I don't think there's some general rules of thumb but not generalizations and you have to listen and you have to find out what's going on. but above all you have to decide at the end of the day as this thing separates breaks up the future is what it's about and…

00:10:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: you need to decide what it is you want now. Big mistake to go back.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: look over your shoulder occasionally, but only do that as I would say, and I know we've talked about this before, but I would only do that in relation to being able to gauge how far you've come because I think you've got to leave things behind. And I've said to you before, I think a piece of you really has to die before you can completely move on. And that's my core belief.

Cheryl Pankhurst: I completely agree. And before anybody thinks that we're just pulling this information out of a book, we just need to tell you that Nigel and I have both been there twice each. So we have a little bit of experience. And I think we could both say I don't know about you Nigel, but I would think that I would love to share our individual stories because they're very different. But I would also like to say I really truly wish the 20 years ago I went through this and then the eight years ago I went through it again. I sure wish I had somebody to talk this through this to know that I'm not alone. To know that there's a way forward. There's always a light. I'm not stuck.

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: I'm not moving backwards. I mean I think that that's would have been really helpful for me. so Nigel, why don't you just let people know we're not a couple of frauds. What's your story?

Nigel Smart: No, no,…

Nigel Smart: we're not a couple of frauds at all. I think, in my case, I got married very early. it was out of college. I fell in love. I was inexperienced. and very very quickly we're making go of things but very soon you start to start going in different directions. I have enormous respect for that person. but I needed a different type of person as I grew up as I got towards 30.

Nigel Smart: and I met somebody here in the US. and that flourished. I look back now and I see differences again in terms of we were a very interesting couple. I think we went through a lot together. We built a I made a lot of compromises professionally and also in relation to starting a second family.

Nigel Smart: it was a shock of my life as I thought we'd compromised our way through to that point where everybody was grown up and we were ready to switch gears into a different type of life. and that didn't happen. somebody made their mind up and it was chaos. And so I had to look inward and say to myself, how can I be better? What was down to me? take 100% responsibility for that. No problem at all doing that, but not beat myself up for the fact that somebody else decided that they wanted something different.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: I think that you have to come to that acceptance. and very very quickly within a month or so, I realized that this was not recoverable, even though I probably wanted it to be recoverable. And I moved forward. And what I started to do, as you well know, Cheryl, is I built my new life plan. I had to decide very very quickly okay what do I want to be what's important to me and I had to start building the mechanism to take me from where I was at that point to where I wanted to be and that was a very methodical sort of process and I built a process and it required me to do and form new habits.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: I had to change as I say I had to change my playbook.

Nigel Smart: I had to become a single guy again and I had to decide and form new single boy habits again. and I had to get myself into Routines sometimes are a pain in the neck, but they're very very good for you when you require stability. and this knocks you for six, probably almost as bad as anything that you'll experience in your life. when I started to notice things was when people started to say to me, "What are you doing?" And I would reply, "What do you mean?" And they said, " you should have gone down like the Titanic." And I say, I guess so." my story that I always share with people is that it felt like I got hit with four torpedoes below the water line.

00:15:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: but I'm a fighter. I'm from, north of England lad, northern grit, churchillian. We never give up. And I'm not going to lie down. I don't do pity parties. I have a moment of pity. occasionally we all do. Even the gurus like Tony Robbins and other people have bad moments, but we don't stay there. And that's the key. You don't live in a pity party. And you basically anchor yourself with a certain level of different mechanisms that force you to make progress.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: And it's a degree a month, then two degrees a month, and within six months you've pulled away like a ship that's sailing out of a harbor and…

Nigel Smart: you're sailing into blue ocean instead of red ocean. And that builds confidence. And with the confidence, you build more momentum. And then things start to happen. People start coming into your life. and it doesn't look black anymore when you've got hope. But I always say hope's a prayer for losers. I always like to have things that you can chart. And what I did was I like to break humor into this…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: because I think if you laugh and you approach this in a joyful way, it makes it easier to do some of the things like getting up and doing certain things in the morning.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: making a bed in the morning. Just like the admiral on YouTube says, get up and make your bed in the morning, which I do religiously now, because if nothing else goes well in the day,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: when you go to bed at night, you've got a freshlymade bed.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm.

Nigel Smart: And that counts for something. It's small wins. it's making sure that you respect yourself. And that's very very difficult to get back when people are criticizing you.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: But you need to build that foundation again. And once you do that, you can build, as I always joke, the yellow brick road. You have the idea of the place where you want to be, whether that's your emerald city or whatever it is, to quote a Ronald Reaganism, and you build that yellow brick road.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: Each stone is a brick along the way and you methodically build it in that way with tasks and things that you can achieve and you don't beat yourself up. And so there that's my story. that went on for six or seven years. I wrote a bestseller book as you know about it, Bouncing Back. I started coaching guys because people asked me, "Can you help me?" I said, "Sure." but I always wanted the right relationship and so I found somebody. I had to travel to Colombia to find her, but I found Eddie and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: I'm very, very happily married of two and a half years again.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: That is a prize that if that's interesting for you, Cheryl and I can show you how to do that. If it's not for you, we can also show you how to navigate being a bachelor for the rest of your life or a bachelorette and being very very happy.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Absolutely.

Nigel Smart: The most important thing is to get comfortable in your skin. And I know that's something that you feel strongly about. So, why don't you tell our audience a little bit about

Cheryl Pankhurst: So high school sweethearts really first girlfriend and fell in love and had this crazy life of owning businesses and just being super busy and really active and very entrepreneurial and when it was time to settle down with kids, things change and shift a little bit. And that's what happens when you start young and you don't,…

00:20:00

Nigel Smart: Mhm. Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: that whole find yourself at 30. That's not actually a myth. I think that's actually something to look at. My kids are now 34 and 32. And I'm always just take your time. And they have taken their time. But when they were 20 and 25, I thought I had had my first child by the time I was 22. And that was a different time, of course. But after 20 years we separated and we had so we grew up together. Our families were each other's families. Our friends were each other's friends. We didn't have any kind of autonomy at all.

Nigel Smart: That's true, isn't it?

Cheryl Pankhurst: So it really is Yeah.

Nigel Smart: It's hard. 20 years. I was 21 years.

Cheryl Pankhurst: and the impact you don't really consider, I had it on my mind a lot longer than my ex did and a lot longer and I just didn't see that way forward. But I also really started to feel like This just isn't me. I'm just not happy. Do I want to leave my kids for every other weekend and…

Nigel Smart: Mhm.

Cheryl Pankhurst: every Wednesday? No. I wanted them under the same roof. So, it kept me there for a very long time until I started realizing that is this what I want them to think a really amazing close intimate relationship looks like. And so, it was time to go. And, we spent about a year of very tumultuous trying to settle things down. And now I can say we are very, very, very good friends. And every once in a while he'll say how lucky we are. But no, we worked very hard. There is no luck about being friends with your kids parent. No You have to work at it. Sometimes it gets there, sometimes it doesn't. You need two very willing participants. But it also means you're at different stages of the game, which is a really big part of the she said,

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: And I think how he viewed this whole thing, I don't know about you, but from what I could see, there was a big ego and failure and I can't look after my family and I just failed and I couldn't do what I needed to do and I was like it just completely surrounded my world. I just felt like out. I just had to get out. I just had to get out. And so that push pull. So it took a long time to get to a different place. Whereas a big part of why we're doing this so that hopefully we can show you where the landmines are and allow you to step over that one and…

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: step over that one and get to that really good place to be faster.

Nigel Smart: And also to say that it isn't all cookies and…

Nigel Smart: cream or roses and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm.

Nigel Smart: to get where you need to go, you do have to go down the rough trail. And there is, rough water to navigate before you can get into that blue ocean, that blue water that…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm.

Nigel Smart: where it looks like paradise. And I find, Cheryl, guys are very, very battered by the experience. I know ladies are too because I talk to them all the time.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: But I'm always taking them back at how truly battered guys wanted to be in the marriage. And I'm not talking about guys that are shifty and having relationships on the side.

Nigel Smart: And that happens in both genders, too. But I've noticed that the guys really have a problem with picking themselves up.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm.

Nigel Smart: especially if they've got to middle age, they've had 20 years of marriage, they have a big guilt problem and self-esteem issue.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm.

Nigel Smart: And the only way that they feel that they can release that is abusing themselves.

Nigel Smart: they abuse themselves with either hard alcohol or recreational drugs in some cases revenge sex. every one of those things is unhealthy.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And it's funny in this day and age, what I notice now is men still have that people still perceive men to be, you weren't able to do it. You weren't able to keep people happy. You weren't able to hold together.

00:25:00

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: And then, society looks at women goes, "Way to go. You're strong. Get out there. Be independent. You're fine." And that's a tough thing. Even great. I felt great at that time being celebrated to be this strong woman to walk out not knowing what's happening.

Nigel Smart: What? It is…

Cheryl Pankhurst: But It wouldn't be fair to my ex. It wouldn't be fair to the male side of this relationship that society is now going, "Wow, look what you did. You ruined it. You blew it. But look at her. She's out there shining. She's independent." I think that's a really tough thing to accept. And from the outside looking in it's like yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: because it's a failure on both sides and unfortunately neither gender is particularly good at accepting their part in the responsibility of what's happened. it's always somebody pointing the finger and I know I went through that.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: And it can get very ugly especially with children as Should we move on and talk a little bit more about one of our favorite topics?

Nigel Smart: I'm just looking at some of our notes here. Selfare recovery. yes,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yes. Yes.

Cheryl Pankhurst: The most underrated thing we hear about.

Nigel Smart: the underrated thing that we would share with people is do you want to go first on the selfcare

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah. Of course. so for me, I really had to again carve out this new identity. If you remember what I said, I grew up in this relationship until I was 40. And so I really never,…

Nigel Smart: Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: you might do the odd girls night out, but I never had a very independent Cheryl story. And so I really had to figure out what the heck that was. I wasn't sure. and I spent a lot of time on the nights they were with dad just pouting and grumpy and missing them and it was awful until I started to take one step forward. So, okay, maybe I'm going to look into this meditation stuff. I'm going to see what that's like and I'm going to look into this journaling stuff and what's that like?

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: and just keep trying little things until I finally had a routine that felt like the only part of my life that was set in stone. And it was the one thing I felt like when I really couldn't rely on anything or anybody, I felt like this allowed me to rely on myself. So when I said I'm going to get up at 5, I'm going to meditate for five minutes. And for me, I didn't even know what I was doing. I was just sitting there and I was thinking of my grocery list and…

Nigel Smart: Right. Let's

Cheryl Pankhurst: what I was going to make for dinner. But I was sitting there and I was sitting there and sitting there and until I found guided meditations and I found something like journal prompts, something to keep going. But what it did for me is I started to notice very slowly, but I did notice in situations where I would have been way more reactive, I wasn't. And in situations where I thought I can't count on nobody keeps their word. But when I kept my word to myself, it triggered something in me like okay I can depend on me because it starts from within. We need to do our work first before anything else happens.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And it might seem menial or it might seem, so writing things down, but it's a scientific fact when you write out your feelings or your frustrations and…

Nigel Smart: Mhm. Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: in this journal. You can write how much you hate your ex to the 10th degree. But that way it's out and You're not telling your You're not telling who doesn't need to hear even now every morning I have a dance party because that's how it starts my day. But it's those l Yeah, I truly do. I look like a ding-dong, but I love it. But that's how I start my day and that puts me in that brings your vibration up. It brings your emotions are up. You're fired up. You're ready for the day. And again, it's not like winning the lottery in that you see an immediate thing.

Cheryl Pankhurst: But I will notice even back then I would go through the lawyers meetings and I would go through figuring out the finances and all of that but then at the end of the day I would say I'm not reacting the way I normally would like something is working.

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: And I think that is the big part of self-care that sometimes people kind of brush aside and…

Nigel Smart: Great today.

Cheryl Pankhurst: and it doesn't really matter where you are in your journey. This is something you can start today and absolutely tell me about your selfare. What does self-care look for you look like?

00:30:00

Nigel Smart: I know this self-care is the most important thing. it's the bedrock. it's accepting where you are. It's understanding where am I right now? And if you can write down all the things that you are feeling where are you with your career, where are you with your relationships, where are you with your emotional life, where are you with your finances, where are you with your physical health?

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: and you start to record and journal exactly how you are. Now you've got a baseline. And why is that important is because We have to grow forward because that's the mechanism which takes us away. It's like a ship steaming away from the harbor. we're going to go away from the harbor and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: we're going to go out into the blue ocean hopefully. the blue ocean is the ideal space where we want to be. And you need to know exactly where you are. And then you need to create new routines. As I said, one of my best friends said to me, you've got married man routines. You're not going to make it if you don't shift.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: best advice I needed single man routines because I was a single man again. I'd forgotten how to be a single man. And so, at least initially, you need to the routines are you get up in the morning and what do you do? You look in the mirror. And one of the things that's important in looking in the mirror is you actually see in the mirror a proportion of what you're feeling at that moment.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: So to come back to you, you need to promote actions in yourself that will make you feel better. You need to move.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: With movement, you will raise your serotonin, which is your happy mood hormone. You will create What are dopamine hits? It's the thing in the brain that tells you, I feel I feel better. So, you look in the mirror and you look and you brush your teeth and you do and you say, "Gee, you're a handsome guy." and you're looking good and you shut your eyes and you visualize What would your day be like if you could have a perfect day?

Cheryl Pankhurst: So good. Mhm.

Nigel Smart: You look in the mirror and you shut your eyes and say, "Okay, what is my perfect day? what is it going to feel like? What am I going to do?"

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: visualize that day and then open your eyes. another great thing is to, your brain doesn't actually know reality from whether it's being tricked. those of us that are a little older will remember from the ' 90s the tape adverts. Is it or is it Memorex? I reason I mention that because it always brings a smile to my face, but I remind people, especially guys, maybe there are 40 or 50 who have got families,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Come here.

Nigel Smart: they'll remember that time. And your brain doesn't know it's being tricked. And so, you can say things like, I'm a genius and I use my wisdom daily."

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: So you come out with some mantras. I have a famous one that I've used with lots of clients. I'm a winner in my health. I'm life. I'm winner in my relationships. I'm a winner in my business. I'm a winner in my finances. I'm a winner in my love life. I'm a And you start saying that to yourself a dozen times, 20 times with your eyes closed. And then you go and have a hot shower. And then you get dressed. And then you barrel out and you take on the day.

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: You seize the day. you're in a different place. Your whole metabolism is in an upflow mode.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm.

00:35:00

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: And you will get different reactions from people. You will get positive reactions with You smile at people and they'll say, "Hey, what's good with you?" And they will make you feel better…

Nigel Smart: because You need to feel needed. Right now, you feel like a piece of crap because In the majority of cases, you've been ditched. So, piece of You feel worthless. your self-esteem is nowhere to be had. So, it's very very important that you work on these things. The visioning, I think, is really important. I love that because you can create whatever you want yourself to be.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: And then as we go through the other parts of the process, we build routines, whether it's a fitness routine, a diet routine,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm. Wow.

Nigel Smart: other routines that will make you feel like you're winning. I want people to have winning in one of the things that I try just as a little sort of self experimental routine, if you will, when I go to the gym, I go on the ellipticals and I started chanting this thing in my head and after two or three minutes, I'm watching my pulse rate as I've taken it up to the level that I should be at on the machine for my age and weight and

Nigel Smart: everything. It might be 155 beats a minute or something. And then I noticed that It's coming down. And what I'm doing now is my brain,…

Nigel Smart: the way I'm thinking, My mind is now controlling my metabolism. It's controlling what I do. One of the things that we both know is we get head up. we get anxiety. This is stressful what we're going through.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Okay.

Nigel Smart: You need to know that under that stress you are affecting the chemical structures in your brain.

Nigel Smart: I've talked about this in our last podcast evidence from Dr.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: Caroline Leaf, who is a famous neuroscientist and u neuro cognitive expert,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: has got demonstrated proof now that when we think negatively and we carry emotions and we don't get rid of them, we're actually forming negative structures in our brains.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: And that is hurting our bodies because our mind controls our brain and our brain controls the rest of our body.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: I showed that in a small experiment that through my mind I was controlling my physiology.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah, it sure is.

Nigel Smart: That's pretty amazing.

Cheryl Pankhurst: My gosh.

Nigel Smart: So these are the things that I look to do and those are things that we can train anybody to do. any woman. it needs to be something that you do over and…

 

Cheryl Pankhurst: of course, I pulled out my phone and I pulled out my book and just made it look like I was just busy doing something else. And I thought, this is not the experience." Put everything away. And I was people watching. I ordered a beautiful glass of wine.

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: I had a great dinner. And there was some resistance there for sure. But when I got the check and I paid the check and Nigel, I was a different person walking out of that restaurant than I was walking in.

Nigel Smart: I'm sure you were.

Nigel Smart: I'm sure you were.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And I'm saying this and this is the point of the she said, that might not mean to somebody. It might not mean anything to a guy who would just go to the bar and…

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: have a beer. But for some women have never done that.

Nigel Smart: of course.

Nigel Smart: Right. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And now I prefer it.

Cheryl Pankhurst: But that was, something I would challenge anyone to try and put your devices away and just move through it because I'm telling you, when you come out the other side of that, then what are you doing?

Nigel Smart: Right. Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Then you're going to the movies by yourself. Best thing in the world. Yes, it is. And then you're traveling by yourself.

Nigel Smart: Right. Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And all of a sudden, you're gaining all these experiences. you're meeting new people because you're not surrounded with people And it was such an exponential growth for me that it's something I'll never ever forget. And so I challenge people to, when you're looking at a new identity, like you're not planning your perfect day around what you did yesterday or…

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: How did you manage you must have had a tremendous amount of selft talk that was going on.

Cheryl Pankhurst: last week.

Nigel Smart: How did you address the selft talk that was obviously going on where the voice on this side is saying Cheryl you can't be here on your own this is social stigma and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: the other side's saying shut up I'm having a good time…

Nigel Smart: how did you deal with that right thingy go isn't it

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah, I …

Cheryl Pankhurst: what I said to myself? I don't care what anybody else is doing, so they probably don't give a s*** what I'm doing. what? And I just kept saying, "Don't flatter yourself. Nobody cares. Don't flatter yourself. Nobody cares." and…

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: Yeah. Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: it was true. Nobody cared at all. And it was such a really amazing experience. So if you can pick something that you would go, I could never do that by myself. It is so empowering.

Nigel Smart: Liberating, isn't it?

Cheryl Pankhurst: It really is. And I started going to these and I think they're all over the world now, meetups, and…

Nigel Smart: Right. Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: you can go into a meetup category and you can say, " I like live music and I like this and I like that. I like playing trivia." And then you would get this group of people who are single who meet at a local pub. And it's not a dating app. It's not speed dating. It's people who just don't want to sit in a restaurant by themselves or play trivia by themselves. I've made so many friends that way. So there's lots of ways like you it is uncomfortable. But if it's uncomfortable, it means you are growing. you're one more step there. you're upleveling.

Cheryl Pankhurst: I think that is important and…

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: you're right like the selft talk if it means you have to put a little note on your phone saying you can do this they don't care you can do this they don't care you're gonna come out the other side there's a light at the end of that tunnel …

Nigel Smart: Again it's another form of building up your self-esteem,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: if you can talk yourself through that it is so liberating I can't even yeah yeah that was Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: isn't it? It's and putting the ego on one side and you're saying I can do this. One of the other things that guys have a lot of trouble with is I mean I suppose both genders have communication issues but one of the things that guys have a really bad time with is language and understanding what's being said. you frequently hear women saying he's listening to me…

01:00:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Stop. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: but he's not hearing what I'm saying.

Nigel Smart: and from a guy's perspective, they're talking at me again and this is what I'm hearing. And I have this technique which, I call language augmentation. And I have this exercise that I go through where I say, okay, let's practice. You say something to me and I say to them, write down what is it you think you heard. So, they're saying something like, " I'm going to be getting home in 20 minutes. You'll be lucky if you see me." I mean, depending on how that's said, it could be quite sharp and offensive. So, then I asked them, "Can you take three deep breaths and let's play that again?

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Goodbye.

Nigel Smart: What other reasons,…

Nigel Smart: what other interpretation could you give to that same statement? And they always look perplexed when I say this, but then they write something down. And so we'll do it again. And I'll say, take a few more deep breaths. Let's come back to that. And we'll try again. And then I'll say, "Can we compare all three statements now?" And you get the deer in the headlights, you get the jaw-dropping, and they'll say, " my goodness, I see what you're getting at."

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: One of the things that I noticed, it's not a complete generalization, but it's a general trend, is that by the time they've done this three or four times, the energy and the reactivity has gone completely out of their bodies…

Cheryl Pankhurst: M. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: because as human beings, and I could speak from the men's side for this, and you can address from the lady's side, we react very quickly. What's that saying? We open our mouths before we engage our brains.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: I did it the other night. I caused the stinking row here in the house. It took us about two hours to get past that. And it happens.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yep. …

Nigel Smart: You get passionate about things. You take a few more moments and you go through it and you realize, " my god, if I'd only done that." And so I teach guys to try and be responsive.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: It sounds pedantic, but there's a difference between reactivity and responsiveness. And…

Cheryl Pankhurst: absolutely. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: if we use these little tools, whether it's taking a counting to 10 or a 5 4 3 2 1 or two or three deep breaths before you react,…

Nigel Smart: before you reply,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: the level of communication that you get as a result of that can be enormously different. And when you're dealing with a charged situation and lawyers are really I'm sorry to say this, but they don't help a lot of the time. Some of them thrive off the conflict. and when somebody genuinely feels hurt, and they may be hurt, somebody may have been cheated on, I don't know, then they can't let go straight away.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: they're going to react pretty quickly and as we all know that once you do that you might as well just adjourn the meeting and go away because you're not going to get anything useful achieved and all you're going to hear is ching as you spend a few more thousand dollars on bills.

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yep. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: So that is something that again most people listening might not be totally aware of but it's something that I found is listen none of us are saints it's difficult to do we do it every time no but if you practice it and I asked people try and practice that as a daily thing even with your children certainly with your working colleagues you'll

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: find that it makes for a lot easier, more amicable situation that you're dealing with. And I think it seems to be a very effective way that doesn't require a lot of effort to make things better.

01:05:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yep.

Nigel Smart: Remember what we're talking about here is a very very damaging sort of relationship …

Nigel Smart: I can call it what relationship disaster that we're dealing with.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yep.

Nigel Smart: And so the more that you can soften the language, I think the better are you stand a chance of getting at least one or…

Nigel Smart: two points sort of that you can agree on as you try to move the ball forward.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: And once you've made your minds up, the two of you that you are going to go separate ways, then it's kind of ridiculous if you don't play the game, so to speak, to make sure that you move on so that you can both get on with your lives. and…

Nigel Smart: that's really important for children as well…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah, absolutely.

Cheryl Pankhurst: When I'm coaching parents,…

Nigel Smart: because yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: I'm always like, can you notice what's happening, and then choose again? And it only takes a second. It doesn't take a long time. you're not, extending your meeting. But if you notice that you're getting hyped up or somebody is getting elevated, can you just go just pause and…

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: the notice is more like is this triggering me? Why am I getting so upset? What is this doing to the people in the room? So if you're having a conflict and your kids are hanging out, what is this doing to the people in the room? And can I choose again? It could be choose to do this later.

Nigel Smart: Right. Yes.

Nigel Smart: Yeah. Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: It I could have said that differently. It could be right all of these. But it's just pause, It's very Yeah,…

Nigel Smart: It's awareness, isn't it? It's being more self-aware and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: absolutely. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: conscious and consciously taking charge of yourself. we run so much of our lives sort of unconsciously. and we need in these types of situations to be more consciously aware and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: to be thinking in a very conscious way so that we don't sort of put our boot their mouth and exacerbate the situations.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Wait. Mhm.

Nigel Smart: There was one more thing I wanted to pick up on that we had talked about to do with language and it's worth exploring as part of your kind of remediation that you're going through. to notice awareness again to notice and I'd write these things down and I like to have people write these things down. What are the positive drivers in your life? What are the things that get you, kind of get you out of bed and get you moving? What are the things that when you hear them or when you use that language are uplifting that they're powering you forward?

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: And conversely, know the negative driver words, the negative words, and try to screen those out of your everyday vocabulary. that sounds a bit esoteric, but actually it works. we tend to use language. I listen sometimes to friends and relatives about how to describe their day. I once heard one of my coaches describe his mother this way and he said,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: " I love my mother unconditionally, but I'm glad she lives 500 miles away."

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: And when asked why, he said, "I couldn't last if she lived next door. She's a psychic vampire." And what he was getting at was, the sky falling. And we all know people like that.

Cheryl Pankhurst: My god.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: We all know people like that. you say, " how's the day going?" And it's, " this happened." you need to adjust your language to project you on an upward proe trajectory. Otherwise, it's like running in quicksand. You're never going to get any momentum going. And as I've said in my world,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yes. Yes.

Nigel Smart: if you can get momentum, you can drive confidence. And once you drive confidence, you can drive a lot of progress.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: And as you correctly pointed out, we can't be fulfilled unless we're growing. So our goal should always be towards growth.

01:10:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yes. 100%. And I know we're scratching the surface on everything that we do in our coaching, but we should the importance of parenting going through this situation.

Nigel Smart: Yes, that was a good segue, wasn't it?

Cheryl Pankhurst: Not everybody has kids, but if you do, this is a whole other layer, a whole new ball game.

Nigel Smart: Yes.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And this is your opportunity to really learn what being collaborative is. And I think we've both had very different u experiences as parents. But I will say if I can say anything about being a parent and you're angry and you're hurt and no matter how it started, no matter who initiated it, but your kids are your kids and they will never choose this.

Nigel Smart: Mhm. s***.

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: They would never say yes this is a great idea for And if you are talking, I see so many people who gravitate to their kids to say, I really need to be happy and your dad does this and your dad does this or your mom does this or your mom does this. And it doesn't matter how much you say that to their parent or to your kid. They will never say to you, " okay, Mom. I Just leave them." They will never say, "I'm on your side in this situation." They need to be a completely different entity from…

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: what you're going through. they're going to get dragged through stuff that is completely unavoidable,…

Nigel Smart: Mhm.

Cheryl Pankhurst: but That will be absolutely enough that they don't need to be dragged into. And whenever you say something about your exartner in front of your kids, if I can say anything, remember they are 50% them. So when you call dad an a*, little Joey's in the back seat going, "" And I'm just like my dad. If you call mom a b****, Susie's in the backseat going, " and I'm just like my mom." So when you throw these words around that you are doing irreparable damage to your kids. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: It's very difficult.

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: It is very nope. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: You never know in these breakups what's being said on the other side.

Nigel Smart: And given that there's a disparity often in the way the courts administer custody time, you're never actually sure what's been said, what isn't being said. one of the things that I've learned from a good friend of mine who was with the Secret Service, she taught me a whole bunch of things to deal with, body language.

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: And there's a tremendous amount that is communicated in these family splitups with body language and other things other than verbal.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: And although one party can turn around and say, I've never said something." it's not exactly true because there's these non-verbal communication pointers that are going on that are feeding opinions into these impressionable minds.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: And as we both know, the human mind doesn't actually reach maturity until about 26 years old.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm.

Nigel Smart: That's much later than I realized. Explains a few things about my own early adulthood that I was immature. I was making decisions good decisions for the majority of the time.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: But yeah, we were making mistakes and I think as we both understand,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: you get into your 30s and you feel like you're making better decisions. and you feel more established and more at ease with yourself. I think this business about the language though is a difficult one. I found, some of the things I just discussed for clients, have been very helpful. on a personal level, they haven't always been as successful on a personal level as they have in being able to advise people.

01:15:00

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: One of the things that plays into this, and I'm sure you've seen this, I know other people have, is there's a lot of passive aggressive behavior.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: And that's really, really difficult to deal with. when you only get children for a certain amount of time, which often men don't have equal time, it's very difficult to discipline. And I don't mean be authoritarian like they're in the army, but there are habits and things that get carried over. And teenagers, they want to do their own thing anyway. And there's nothing worse than, we don't have to do this at mom's house. I think that's just a very, very difficult situation to be in.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: A lot of guys are experiencing alienation because of that. and all you can do is and being authentic when you don't get equal time and you don't get equal overnights is a very difficult one. I would say that it's still your best protection.

Cheryl Pankhurst: No. No.

Nigel Smart: Because I think to some extent I can speak for guys. We've all experienced elements of this. I It's not pleasant. U it's grossly mean and unfair. But that's the best solution because you can't legislate that from the courts. I know some people believe you can, but I don't think that's possible.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: It's being on a relationship level and having behaving in a way that…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: where you're being true to yourself and you're demonstrating responsibility to them. Remember, you're not their best friends. I think I see a lot of people make mistakes where they try to be their best friends. That may be happening at their mother's house. For guys, you have to be a parent, which means putting your foot down at times and you will be unpopular. And it is hard because the temptation,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: and I've been through this, to sort of bend the rule and say, " I don't get them as much. Therefore, if I am too hard, they may not want to come again."

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: I think you just have to be consistent and that's what I've tried to do and I tell everybody, be authentic, be yourself, be a father. we're not best friends.

Nigel Smart: We're trying to be coaches, if you like, to bring on little adults that until 26, they may have had families of their own, but they're still children.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: And so that's the way I approach. I mean, how do you respond to that from a woman's point of view, Cheryl?

Cheryl Pankhurst: Listen, I know, notoriously moms get more time, but I have to say if you are a mom and for whatever reason you are keeping your kids from their dad, for whatever reason, just because you're mad because they're not paying support, because of whatever it is,…

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: the only person you're hurting are your kids.

Nigel Smart: Right. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: If you don't have a vested interest in dad anymore, that's fine. But you are damaging your kids. And I have to say too, kids will watch the whole thing go down and…

Nigel Smart: Yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: they'll watch it and they'll watch it and they'll watch it. But then when they hit that 26 or 27, and it might take that long, they will tell you, "I saw that. I know that was wrong, but I was scared to say anything. I didn't want to walk the boat. I didn't want to, piss off mom or piss off dad.

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: That to some extent they think that they're the cause of it,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: But yeah,…

Nigel Smart: aren't they?

Cheryl Pankhurst: 100%. No.

Nigel Smart: And They're not.

Cheryl Pankhurst: No. They have to stay out of the game.

Nigel Smart: They are.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And again, I mean, there's extenduating cir circumstances when it comes to abuse and…

Nigel Smart: Yeah. Right. Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: addiction. We're talking about I'm pissed off. You cheated on me. I'm leaving I'm taking the kids. I'm taking the money. taking It's not how it works. you can take the money. You can take the house all you want, but the kids are still his kids. And at some point in time, you chose to love your partner. And at some point in time, you chose to have children. And when you made that decision and brought children into the world, they are now your priority, not your anger, not your finances, And so I think, every time you get ramped up, find a friend, find a therapist, find somebody to talk to about it, not your kids. And, again, you might think you're punishing dad or you might think you're punishing mom,…

01:20:00

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: but It's zero effect on them as much as you're punishing your children. and they didn't ask for any of this. So I think this,…

Nigel Smart: How do we create a new story,…

Nigel Smart: Cheryl? How do we create a new story? right?

Cheryl Pankhurst: I think if everything we decide, everything we talk about, if we put our kids' faces in front of us first and say, "Okay, is this the best for my kid? Is this who I want to be? Do I want to be this person or do I want to be this next level of a ex-wife or ex-husband? Do I want to be that level? because where I am right now, this is what it's getting me. Is this serving my kids? No. I want to be that person. So, find somebody who's gone to that point. Find somebody who can say, "That might not be your best choice. Let's think about this again.

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: Let's avoid this landmine over here because I've walked this path. I know exactly where it is. Let me help you skip over it.

Nigel Smart: Right. Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Let me help you step to the left. And sometimes it's just not like don't leave it to yourself to do these things and be cautious about I'm obviously side with the coaching as opposed to Therapy is wonderful, but if you find a therapist who has not walked the path,…

Nigel Smart: That's right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: then they don't have, that inner knowing of, I still say the day my ex and I split up, I still remember when we told the kids, and this was like 2005. I remember what I was wearing. I remember where I was in the house. I remember the words I said.

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: I remember I can still viscerally feel the punch in my stomach when I told the kids.

Nigel Smart: Mhm. Yes.

Cheryl Pankhurst: So when you're talking to somebody who has been exactly where you are and can say you're not alone, you're not by yourself, there is a way and find somebody who can take your hand and walk with you through that and help you discover not sometimes therapy just gives you answers and digs into deep trauma which is wonderful except coaching is very different. coaching is we know you have that next level in you.

Nigel Smart: I think so. Mhm.

Cheryl Pankhurst: We just know how to Yeah.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: And we don't want to I think the difference between the therapy and the coaching is that the therapy can go on and on and on and on and on and it's very psychological whereas the coaching can be how can we get you quickly from A to D or to Z so that you've got a life that's been rebuilt.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah,…

Nigel Smart: I see so many people that are in therapy for years and they're still a mess after five years. Whereas I'm a very practical-minded person and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: the people that come to me like to they're achievers.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: Maybe they're high achievers and so they want to see tangibles change and they want to feel good about where they were and now where they've grown to. And when you can show a measurable improvement rather than something that's very esoteric, I think they actually naturally feel better. And so, I'm always saying let's do the analysis pretty quickly.

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: Let's try and once we get you stable, once we get you feeling good about yourself,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm.

Nigel Smart: once you've had some time because you can't rush into this, let's build what it is, what is it Who is it you want to be?

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: And in the case of the children, where do they fit into that puzzle? what branch of the tree do we need to sort of populate there?

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: One of the things we need to do so that you're feeling a sense of fulfillment because you're not going to be happy. I firmly believe that you're only happy when you're fulfilled and you're only fulfilled when you're growing. you have to be in that mode. excuse I like the fact that again you've led us into that sequence of things that we had talked about our last podcast and the mentoring side.

01:25:00

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: I'd mentioned jokingly when we build the yellow brick road, you know, you're going to take whether it's Wan Kenobi or what have you or you're going to have the Tin Man, the lion, you're going to need people along the way. I think what I've done is in each of the areas where you want to improve, you will find if you like a mentor or a coach or a sensei to help you become that piece of the person that you want to be.

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: If you think of yourself as a pie chart,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm.

Nigel Smart: slices of you that make up that pie chart. Who do I need?

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: who do I need that fulfills the physical side? Who is it that fulfills the relationship side? And then you go seeking and you go looking and you've designed if you want a new person, what should that person be like? Not a checklist. I see it more I told Eddie this. I said, "You weren't ever a checklist." I said, 'You were more like a multiple vin diagram…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: where you had overlapping circles where a piece of that person and a piece of a bit more like a recipe,…

Nigel Smart: a pinch of that and a pinch of this, but if I put a bit two pinches of that and half a pinch of this, it would still be a great meal.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm.

Nigel Smart: It would still be a great flavor, but it would be different. And that's the way I approached that. I don't like the idea of a checklist.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: it works for some people.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: I would say write down options of somebody that you want to find. and then what I always tell people, never settle.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: It will take you a long time. Don't go after the short-term gratification. m make it a mission like you're looking for, El Dorado lost treasure because that's…

Nigel Smart: what you're looking for. The lost.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And I think too in looking and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: creating the ven diagram or the list, however you want to look at it, I think the very first list or diagram you need to make is who do I need to be first?

Nigel Smart: That's correct. That's correct.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Who do I need to be before I even depend on anybody else?

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: Look for anybody else. You want to be you to attract him 2.0 relationship.

Nigel Smart: Yes, absolutely.

Nigel Smart: Who do I need to be to find that person?

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah. Because who I am now got me…

Nigel Smart: And it comes back to Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: where I am now.

Nigel Smart: Yeah. Who…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm.

Nigel Smart: who you are? Because you'll hear, "Why is it I don't get this? Why is it I can't make this? What have you done in relation to yourself?" And most people haven't spent five minutes working on themselves. and that's…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: why they're not attracting that special person in their lives. again, that's the sign of our times. That's the instant gratification. And although you can find that and you get lucky at times, in terms of long-term satisfaction, long-term gratification, it's probably a little edgy.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: the odds on that are probably long. Yeah, you agree. should we look at at that time? I know we got some questions that we had kind of thrown at us that some people wrote in on email…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Perfect. Yeah. Yeah, I think we need a sequel though,…

Nigel Smart: which was good.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Nigel. We got a lot of stuff to cover.

Nigel Smart: I know.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah, we will be doing this again.

Nigel Smart: I hope that people have enjoyed this.

Cheryl Pankhurst: I think this has just been great and so much fun.

Nigel Smart: I mean the idea is to empower people and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: obviously we'd like to have people reach out to both of us.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: you get a two for one here whereby you'll get different perspectives and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm.

Nigel Smart: I think it's useful to have that blend of approaches rather than just like a one shade of interpretation.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm.

Nigel Smart: I think that to a large extent is part of the problem. and getting uninformed opinions is kind of like a death nail, isn't it?

01:30:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: And that's what most people sort of problem with.

Nigel Smart: So, let me throw this first question that we got at you.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Let's do it.

Nigel Smart: So, I just divorced. How can I get started with my life again?

Cheryl Pankhurst: I think the very first thing is to,…

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: instead of thinking big picture, instead of thinking, I need to look way down here, figure out your life like you're driving in the dark and Your headlights only show two or three feet in front of you.

Nigel Smart: That's good.

Nigel Smart: Yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: So if you can just take that one next step, it could be how do I get through the next hour?

Cheryl Pankhurst: Two How do I get through the night? and just keep reflecting back. Okay, that was a win. I got through my last hour. Now I just need to do the next hour. it's big picture that gets very overwhelming. So if you can make a list of things that you need to do,…

Nigel Smart: Yeah.

Nigel Smart: Yeah. One bit,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: can you look at that list and go, okay, I'm overwhelmed. I don't know what to do, but I can do this one little step here.

Nigel Smart: one bite. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: I always talk about bits and bites. I liked what you just said there that's a word that we hadn't used. I know we've talked about it before, but reflective. So looking back and being honest with yourself and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm.

Nigel Smart: actually writing some things down because we do forget when we're in this state of overwhelm which you are you tend to narrow down what it is you remember and what it is you interpret.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: And I think if you can give yourself that breathing time and be honest with yourself.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: I like to ask people just to whether it's on a journal on a pad just write down just do like a brain dump of everything that's on your mind…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yes. So good.

Nigel Smart: because in doing that a lot of you spew out literally all manner of things and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: out of that it's almost like a collage of stuff. There's a picture there, but you can't see it. maybe when you stand back later and look at that collage,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: you say, yeah. I see a picture here." And I think that could be really,…

Nigel Smart: really useful. You agree?

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah, I agree 100%.

Cheryl Pankhurst: I even find in the coaching it's sometimes, …

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: it's just giving people the space to just talk and it's like journaling when you hear…

Nigel Smart: Yeah. Wow.

Cheryl Pankhurst: what you're saying. Sometimes people go, " that doesn't bother me. Okay, let" and it's gone. But when there's so much piled up, they can't sort through the crap to get to the nuggets that they need to grow,…

Nigel Smart: Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that we had talked about before,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm.

Nigel Smart: I don't think we touched on it today, is you need to get your inner vibration going. You need to do things at that time you're going to be in a beta vibration. You're going to be pretty crappy and you need to get to those higher faculties so that you can find where you need to get into that gamma area.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: If you can I think this is whether it's affirmation chants or…

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: something like that or if you can get your hands on do meditation or you can get hand your hands on these recordings. I know I have them on my website that you can access for free that will actually you listen to for 15 minutes and it takes you into a higher plane. it does give you that ability to think more creatively and with clarity. I think that's a word we haven't used much tonight. Clarity. You get clear about…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Right. Yes.

Nigel Smart: what it is you're feeling and what it is you want. so let's ask the sec second question here.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Okay.

Nigel Smart: We got a couple more questions. Got just enough time to do this, I think.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: What if I could…

Nigel Smart: what if the parenting styles are different when you go from one home to the next?

Cheryl Pankhurst: …

Cheryl Pankhurst: I hate to break the news,…

Nigel Smart: Yeah. Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: but you can only control what you control. And I'm talking about, she puts the kids in front of the TV all day, gives them junk food all day, they're allowed to have candy before they go to bed.

01:35:00

Nigel Smart: Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: It sucks. But you have relinquished those responsibilities. And all you're doing when you are disputing that and arguing that and bringing that to this, all you're doing is damaging the relationship and your kids are not going to appreciate that either. And it really is unfortunate, but unless it's an abusive situation, you have no say. So, not fun, not a great answer.

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: Lots of times, There's no rules over here. They get to do I understand. through I've seen I know. But you cannot control that. So, if you're going to take that on,…

Nigel Smart: Yeah. Uh-huh.

Cheryl Pankhurst: you're taking on a layer of something you can't control and it's going to cause some very much inner turmoil that you will not be able to shed because you just can't control it. So you're going to have to go what happens in My rules, and that's just the way it is. So it's a hard truth, but it's a truth.

Nigel Smart: I think we've all experienced this in some An example that springs to mind is not use of cell phones in house. I like that be switched off.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: Many times I've come in the room and everybody's on the cell phone and they're actually communicating to each other on text in the same room and that drives me crazy. it's rude and it's a bad habit. I have no really good answers on that one. It's just something that you've just got to work out and try and deal with. The other side to it on a personal level is if you end up driving yourself into a frenzy and you damage your own blood pressure and you make yourself sick,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah, exactly.

Nigel Smart: you're doing nobody a favor.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: I think on some occasions you just have to not accept defeat, but accept the status quo and just do the best you can and accept that at this moment in time, this is the way it is.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And with your kids,…

Nigel Smart: This is Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: it's the same thing. I understand it's different over there but these are my values and…

Nigel Smart: Yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: as long as you're just addressing your values and not just trying to be conflictive but these are my values how I feel this is how I run my house this is how it is and…

Nigel Smart: Yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: you're going to get friction you're going to get arguments that's part of being a All right.

Nigel Smart: What would you say? I mean, there are people that we probably both know that deliberately try to be difficult.

Nigel Smart: because they're trying to influence custody for example. Have you any other words on that how you would handle that for the people that are listening? h

Cheryl Pankhurst: …

Cheryl Pankhurst: I think custody was never a big conflict for me. However, I would say in my opinion is you stick by like I said your values, your morals, you have a compass. You don't deviate from your compass. And that's even the conversation you can have with your kids. you're not debating, you're not arguing, you're not putting down the other parent, but you're supporting yourself.

Cheryl Pankhurst: This is what I believe in. This is my value. These are my morals. And this is the home that we live in together here. and I would leave it because again, when they get older, they're absorbing everything. Just because you think, " I'm going to stay at dad's forever…

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: because he always lets me watch TV or I'm going to stay at mom's because she gives me," they are still absorbing everything.

Nigel Smart: Right. and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: And again what you can't control, you't You can control yourself. You can control how you react. You can control how you respond. And you can control what goes on in your floral walls. But when you relinquish that control, it actually gives you the freedom to say, "Okay, and I'm telling you, I promise you, your kids see everything.

01:40:00

Nigel Smart: it's important that I suppose we are talking about relationships we are talking about their future here…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Exactly.

Nigel Smart: but you've also got to consider your own self-hel otherwise you can't function

Nigel Smart: 

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: And I think again many people do neglect themselves and…

Nigel Smart: punish themselves and I think that's a mistake. you've got to honor yourself.

Nigel Smart: You have to sometimes take the high road as it's called. I don't know whether it's the high road but you certainly got to honor yourself and you've got to honor and respect yourself what it is you're trying to do. in a lot of these cases, it's not necessarily your fault.

Cheryl Pankhurst: No. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: It's the other person that has decided for everybody.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: That's pretty selfish emotion that people have to come to terms with. there are very very few of these circumstances that were amicable like, we'll separate.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: No, it's usually one person that decides for them,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: you and the rest of the family. And as I always remind people, that person might be divorcing you, but the children are not being divorced, but they get caught up in it. And so I'm not sure whether, as I see it, the majority of people realize that. I think maybe if they love their children as much as they would have you to believe then maybe they might not have been too quick to pull the gun so to speak quick to the draw. it seems to be that if everything's not hunky dory all the time then it's too easy to get out of the situation.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: Although I do believe that there are people that shouldn't be together. I really do.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Of course.

Nigel Smart: So let's look at our last question because that segues us in.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Last question. Okay. Mhm.

Nigel Smart: What if I'm kneede in this s***? I'm not maybe financially they've been squeezed. maybe they've been thrown out of the family home or something like that. I don't know. the way I would try and address that is a little bit brief. Take 100% responsibility for your actions.

Cheryl Pankhurst: 

Nigel Smart: Ask what you can do differently. So, you're asking yourself that self analysis.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Heat.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: And see what you can do to still be the parent to your family whilst at the same time not being selfish to yourself.

Nigel Smart: I think coming back to our initial point, Cheryl, self-care.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: If you're not happy in yourself, you're not going to be able to take this stuff on. it comes back to that old saying on the airlines, put your mask on first before you try and rescue the next person. And I think we have to get into the habit of saying no sometimes. And I think that's something as a parent we find it's like a kneejerk. We find that very difficult to do. Most parents do anyway. I know I do.

Nigel Smart: I've had to say no a lot this last year because of circumstances. but I think that's what I would say. How about you?

Cheryl Pankhurst: And I would also think, if you're in it, it's never too late to stop. It's never too late to say, "Okay, what?" Like you said, 100% radical responsibility for my actions, my words. How has it served my kids? And can you stop?

Nigel Smart: All right.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Can you communicate the desire to stop and start from there? You can always just because it feels too late, this doesn't have to be your story forever.

Nigel Smart: Right. and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: And when you talk about self-care, I mean, honestly, when you have kids looking at you, what greater gift can you give your kid than to teach them self-care?

Nigel Smart: a bit of grace. It's very very difficult when you're upset and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: wound up and you feel beaten up and you feel wronged to maintain that. But that's again a discipline that you have to try and learn. as they say suck it up, keep calm, carry on but again have a plan.

01:45:00

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: have a plan. what's that old saying? And the sun comes up tomorrow.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: …

Nigel Smart: nothing's forever.

Cheryl Pankhurst: That's right.

Nigel Smart: Nothing's forever. So, I do believe that we can change things, but a lot of it comes down to what mindset we have.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm.

Nigel Smart: I think we've got to get out of the mantra that we're a bad person. I would sum up on this that you're not a bad person. Some people are, I suppose, but you're not a bad person. Fundamentally, you are a good person. you created children out of love. At the time that you created the children, there was feelings there that were good.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Mhm.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: And you have these treasures that will always be part of you, even if they're not talking to you at the moment.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm.

Nigel Smart: And I think you need to feel good about that. But at the end of the day, you've got to chart your own course. and it may mean, sailing the ship out of the harbor a time or two, and you don't see them for a while. but where they are, they know where you are, and you do the best to communicate and…

Nigel Smart: be authentic and in time, all things will come good.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: But it requires you to have a belief system. it requires you to have a plan. It requires you to make commitments to yourself first, I think.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And reach out. There's help out there.

Nigel Smart: And yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: There are coaches, Nigel and I both offer, we have a bonus at the end of this for a coaching call for you to get a flavor of…

Nigel Smart: Yeah, we do.

Cheryl Pankhurst: what this is like. And we may not be your people,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: but reach out to somebody…

Nigel Smart: Right. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: because you're right, Nigel, you need a plan. You need a structure. You need a form at because floundering and just grasping at whatever you get a hold of is just not going to help you grow and not help you shed the skin that you don't need to be in anymore and create you 2.0.

Nigel Smart: If creating the 2.0

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: I think is a goal. If you see it as a target and shoot for that, I talked a lot in the last week or two about you need a moonshot.

Nigel Smart: You got to see this as a moonshot. And shoot for the stars, you'll hit the moon. If you go for a moonshot, then at least you might get into orbit. And the orbit would be,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: happiness and a relationship and a life. At the end of the day, you've got to build a life that people want to share.

Cheryl Pankhurst: Well on that note and…

Nigel Smart: And I think if you create a life that people want to share, then a lot of wonderful things will materialize. And on that note,

Cheryl Pankhurst: we will include with all the links that you need …

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: Yes. Yeah.

Cheryl Pankhurst: if you want to reach out and also a really introspective and reflective workbook that goes along with this master class. Nigel, this has been a absolute pleasure.

Nigel Smart: Yeah. We're going to have to do this again. There's a lot more,…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Absolutely.

Nigel Smart: I think, that we'll dig into.

Cheryl Pankhurst: And if there's feedback questions, you will know how to get a hold of us.

Nigel Smart: Yeah. you will reach out. We've a lot of tools and things that we can give you a lot of bonuses that we can give you time for a consult time for some of the other tools that we have to enable you to figure out things about yourself …

Cheryl Pankhurst: Mhm..

Nigel Smart: how to plan the blueprint for you to move forward. So don't be shy.

Nigel Smart: 

Nigel Smart: take the leap of faith as they say and…

Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah.

Nigel Smart: be bold, believe in yourself and there is sunlight over the horizon as I always say. So go for it.

01:50:00

Cheryl Pankhurst: And if you're growing, in six months, you won't recognize your life.

Nigel Smart: No, you won't. That's true.

Cheryl Pankhurst: You won't. Yeah. thank you so much for listening.

Cheryl Pankhurst: For joining us. Thank you, Nigel. This has been lovely. We'll see you again. I'm gonna stop the recording here.

Nigel Smart: Okay, take care. Bye-bye.