#74-"How to Advocate for Your Teen with Special Needs: Essential Tips for Parents" with Judy Bear

#ParentingTeens #SpecialEducation #IEP #Advocacy #LearningDisabilities #MentalHealth #ParentSupport #Education #Empowerment #TeenSuccess #ParentingAdvice #CherylPengers #TheStudentAdvocate

In this enlightening episode of Parenting Teens: Advice Redefined, we dive deep into the world of special education with two passionate specialists, Cheryl and Judy. They share their wealth of experience in advocating for teens with learning disabilities, mental health challenges, and the importance of collaboration between parents, teachers, and students.

Discover how to decode psychoeducational assessments, understand Individualized Education Plans (IEPs), and empower your teen to take charge of their learning journey. Cheryl and Judy emphasize that knowledge is power and that every parent can be an effective advocate for their child.

Join us as we explore practical strategies to support your teen's unique learning needs, foster self-advocacy, and create a positive educational experience. Whether you're feeling overwhelmed or just seeking guidance, this episode is packed with valuable insights to help you navigate the complexities of special education.

Cheryl
00:01 - 01:02
What happens when you put two special education specialists on a podcast? The fire, the passion, and the drive just jumps out at the screen. Judy Baer and I have very similar backgrounds. We're both special education specialists in the high school and both retired early for this passion of giving parents and kids and teachers a voice. you know when you get the um the word that your kid is struggling academically maybe there's a disability going on maybe we need to do this big psych assessment and the psych assessment comes back to you and it's 30 pages long and they chat with you for 20 minutes on what it actually means but when you get home It's so overwhelming and there's 30 pages of information and decisions and accommodations and what you should do and what the teachers need to do, what the school needs to do, what you need to do at home.

Cheryl
01:03 - 01:43
If we can sit down with that assessment and say, listen, this is just what it means. Here's an example of what this means. Here's an example of how this helps. And it's usually something that benefits everybody. If we can narrow it down to a small focus, one grade at a time, one semester at a time, then it becomes very, very manageable. And when we're parents, and we're coming up against our own frustration, or we're trying to talk to a teacher about what needs to be done, and you're coming up against, but I don't have time for this, and I'm exhausted.

Cheryl
01:44 - 02:04
Listen, all this resistance, all this anger, all this frustration, it comes from fear. And we get it. Parents are petrified. They get this assessment. And some of us are thinking, what the hell? What are they going to do after grade 12? Are they even going to graduate? Are they going to live in my basement?

Speaker 3
02:04 - 02:04
No.

Cheryl
02:05 - 02:46
No, and that's where advocacy comes in. That's where voices like mine or voices like Judy's comes in, where we can sit down and we can isolate what's actually happening and give you ways to move forward and a voice to move forward without stigma, without shame, and really having you understand that the involvement of your kid from the start is vital. And it might feel hard. I don't want him to hear bad things about himself. I don't want him to hear negative things about himself. But that's not what happens in these meetings. What happens in these meetings is we can say to your kid, listen, what do you like about this class?

Cheryl
02:46 - 03:32
What's the best part about it? How do you learn best? What makes you feel good in this class? And what's really hard? And when we collaborate with our kids, instead of coerce situations or coerce solutions, if we collaborate, then the result is so different. So listen in. I appreciate you listening to the podcast. If you have any questions, support at CherylPengers.com or click on any of my social links. and we can talk this is this is my drive my jam and why i wake up in the morning just to support you and please know if you're listening to podcasts again reading googling information then you're not failing you are still going strong.

Cheryl
03:33 - 04:11
You are still going at it. And that's the best part. That's the part that you have to like pat yourself on the back. I'm still doing this. I'm still doing this. You're not failing. You are just learning. It's a whole new world. And there are people like Judy and I that can shed some light into that world and we're so happy to do so. Thank you for listening and have a beautiful day. Welcome back to another episode of Parenting Teens, advice redefined for today's world. And we're tackling a topic that so many parents struggle with, how to effectively advocate for your teen in school without crossing the line into helicopter parenting.

Cheryl
04:11 - 04:49
My guest today has spent over two decades in education working directly with students and families navigating individual educational needs as a curriculum creator and department chair serving over 250 students. She has seen the first hand the rising challenges in teen mental health and the critical need for collaboration between parents, teachers, and community resources. We will dive into how parents and educators can truly work together to support teens without overstepping, so that every teen can transition into a thriving and independent future. Let's dive in. Welcome, Judy Bear.

Speaker 1
04:51 - 05:41
Cheryl, thank you so much for having me on your podcast. I'm thrilled to be here, and this is a subject that I'm passionate about. And, you know, I think my background, of course, is special education, and I have worked with all areas of the school system from kindergarten to grade 12, but most of my experience is in the high school system. But I think it's important, especially when we're talking about special education and supporting students, to have an understanding of what is expected and what is taught in every grade, right? Because like a ladder where you've picked the rungs out of the bottom, it's difficult to reach up unless you have those foundational knowledges.

Speaker 1
05:42 - 06:29
Right? So my business, the Student Advocate, I just retired less than a year ago. But there were things that I had learned and things I continue to learn about students with special education needs that I was not ready to let go. And that I felt that, you know, I still wanted to support parents and support students on that journey. So the first thing is, you know, what happens when parents discover that their child has some special education need? And it's one of those topics where it's not one topic. You know, as you know, you have students that have very, very high needs.

Speaker 1
06:30 - 07:30
And generally speaking, they are supported in our school system. Not always 100% well, but, you know, there are more supports for them. It's the students really with mental health needs, as you referred to, the students with ADHD, the students with anxiety, and also the students with some kind of learning disability. And unfortunately, when we refer to learning disabilities, there seems to be a hush that comes over the room. Parents don't want to talk about it. Students don't want to talk about it. They might not even know, right? So I kind of look at this as the starting place is you suspect your child is having some difficulty, teachers, you know, bring this up to you, and you have perhaps gone and invested in or the school board has invested in a psychoeducational assessment, right?

Speaker 1
07:30 - 08:25
And that really is 90% of where I start. And I look at psychoeducational assessments, they are, many of them are, like anything, there's better ones and there's less better ones, but many of them are very wordy. We're talking 25, 30 pages, as you know, and they start with gestation. And then they go into several pages of numbers. I have a math background, so I love numbers. But the psychologists will spend three or four days interviewing parents, interviewing the student, working through various testings with them. And then, you know, the parents sit down when all is said and done, and they're presented with this 25 page document.

Speaker 1
08:26 - 08:59
And, you know, the psychologist will spend half an hour, an hour going over it with the parents. But I always look at this as a little bit of a, you know, difficult conversation where at some point, you know, as it happens to all of us, our eyes glaze over. And we wonder, what does this really mean? We go home and it's like we haven't heard a lot of what has been said, or a lot of it might not be relevant at this point in time. And I think that's one of the key things with a psychoeducational assessment, right?

Speaker 1
08:59 - 09:55
It is an overall understanding of a student's learning needs. Now, good ones will have suggestions at the end, both for families to tackle on their own, Right? Because you're not in school 24-7, right? So what can families do? And it will also have recommendations for the school system. What should parents basically ask the school system to do? And here is the problem. I mean, I love, in my previous job as Curriculum Chair, I looked at a lot of psychoeducational assessments coming in, and parents were like, I have no idea what to begin. I think this means perhaps an IPRC in the public system, not necessarily in the Catholic system, but it needs some kind of accommodations probably, and where do we start?

Speaker 1
09:57 - 10:45
One of the problems, and I'm not going to say problem perhaps isn't the right word, but a psychoeducational assessment is an overall understanding of a student's capabilities in learning at that point in time. Yes. But we are lifelong learners, hopefully. And at that point in time, whether it's grade six or grade eight or grade 10, you know, or beyond, we are learning specific things in our school system that are necessary for specific attainment of information. And so I think one of the problems is to look at that assessment and to make it relevant to the student in that system at that point in time.

Speaker 1
10:47 - 11:37
And it has to change. So, you know, when we look at learning, and I will preface this by saying at some point, I was highly interested in medicine, maths and sciences are my background, although I am a painter. It's hard to really explain that. But I like to think I have both sides going, maybe. And let's be honest, most of us are visual learners. But I'm fascinated with the way we learn. And my three R's of learning, you know, are receiving information, retaining that information, and retrieving that information, right? What comes in to, let's say, our child's brain, right?

Speaker 1
11:37 - 12:12
If they have something like ADHD, then they are going to have problems focusing and getting information in. And there's strategies, of course, you can work with that. But if you don't have information in, you have a problem right to begin with. Then retaining that information, kind of like stocking a book on a shelf in a library. It would be nice to know where it is, right? When at some point in the future, you have to come and retrieve it, you know? And so those to me are the three R's of learning, right? What is coming in?

Speaker 1
12:12 - 12:56
Because that's really your starting point. If you're only taking 50% in, you're only ever hope, you know, even if all the other things are working at 100%, you're only ever going to be able to retrieve 50%. So when I look at those psychoeducational assessments, I say, okay, what are those students strengths? And how are they going to support those deficits? But more importantly, where are they in the school system? If they're in grade 6, then what you really want them and primarily their teacher to focus on is going to be much different than if they're in grade 9 or 10 or 12, right?

Speaker 1
13:00 - 14:00
And, you know, these things will also travel past to college and university, any post-secondary trades, right? Which require you to pass with a 70% those rent tickets, trade sales, right? So I look at those kinds of things and I think it's important that the accommodations that we set up for students recognize, number one, their key learning strengths and weaknesses, but it's also important that they recognize where they are in their journey through the school system. And one of the things that, you know, I've noticed is that they don't always change, right? It is, you know, those accommodations, which as you know, are, you know, instructional aspects, the teacher should consider environmental aspects and assessment aspects.

Speaker 1
14:00 - 14:39
Those should change year to year, because ideally, a student will learn to support themselves in some areas, and perhaps the next semester, the next year, their target focus will be different. That ideally is a collaboration between, in my mind, between the teacher, the parent, and the student. And that should be looked at yearly, right? And it should be upgraded yearly, and it should be an open method of communication. I

Cheryl
14:43 - 15:26
couldn't agree more. I mean, you and I have a lot in common in that we did pretty much the same job. I was head of department, you were head of department, you had 250 kids, I had that or maybe more. And I think we both almost left for the same reasons. I know, like you said, there's that passion that I just don't wanna let go. And that was having a voice for the kids and having a voice for the parents. And I think the one, The one day I was in the principal's office, maybe a few years even before I retired, and I was advocating for a kid.

Cheryl
15:26 - 16:06
And this is not a typical thing, but the teacher didn't understand the accommodations that were supposed to be applied as a human right, not just as a favor. But I was advocating and he stopped me mid-sentence and said, you just have way too much passion for this. You need to settle down. And right away I thought, you? need people like me in this building to be passionate about this because, you know, math and science is black and white. Special education is all grey. It's all grey because every kid is different, because every experience is different.

Cheryl
16:07 - 16:41
And if we can come to that with the eyes of the parent or the eyes of the student as if This is not just another kid with ADHD. This is James with ADHD. And this is how James, it's not a textbook. And I know with these assessments, I know exactly what you're saying. The first three paragraphs are, mom had a 32 week gestation period. And she was born through a cesarean section. And it's like, oh my God, are you trying to justify the $5,000 they just paid? Okay. It's hard for me, you know what I mean?

Cheryl
16:41 - 17:06
And I'm thinking of a parent, You know, I can go through these 35 pages, and my eyes automatically go to where they need to go. Yes. But having a parent look at this going, I just thought they were like, had too much energy. And, and now I'm getting feedback from the teachers. And, you know, if they have nothing to compare at home, sometimes parents are in the dark about this being a learning disability or anything, because they

Speaker 1
17:06 - 17:06
have

Cheryl
17:06 - 17:55
nothing to compare it to other kids. So it can be very confusing and then okay, here's your assessment. Here's your 30 pages Yes, let me meet with you for half an hour and talk about it. Take this home and good luck Yeah you know and so I think and you know We both worked with teens mainly and I think the very first step for me when this assessment comes back is the kids and I and the parents are sitting down with this assessment. You know, talk about that, talk about how important it is, because I think we're both on the same page with this, that our kids know exactly what this paper says, exactly what it means in their level of learning, of course.

Cheryl
17:56 - 18:26
But I think it justifies the fact that this is not just a suggestion. These are not just suggestions for you to hopefully behave in the classroom. This is like saying, here's your wheelchair because you can't walk. Here's your glasses because you can't see. Here's your insulin because you have, you know, diabetes. So can we talk about how important it is that this paperwork is a family, teacher, school involvement?

Speaker 1
18:27 - 19:16
Well, you know what, Cheryl, we are on the same page on this. You've hit the nail on the head in the sense that unfortunately I've run into so many students in grade 10 who've never looked at an IEP and not understood it's based ideally on those assessments, right? And it's kind of like there's a, you know, a hidden negativity with these things. And I think that stems, you know, I've given this a lot of thought, and I'm not sure, but I think that stems, people look at these numbers on these assessments, And you know, and I went back to my three R's, the receiving information, retaining and retrieving, right?

Speaker 1
19:17 - 19:57
And it looks at how really those things, you know, everything in the assessment has something to do with one of those three aspects. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, and so, but if you're not, you know, if that's not your background, that's not necessarily obvious. And I think that people look at it and they say, okay, well, this is kind of a done deal. It's a horrible thing, right? If they don't like the numbers or the numbers don't jive, and there's nothing we can do about it. And what they don't realize is that this, you know, to me, information is power.

Speaker 1
19:58 - 20:45
This is information, and it's information that shows you where your strengths are, right? And it's also information that shows you where you have to support or rewire other things. Some of these things are not, quote, fixable, but they are get-aroundable. Exactly is that, right? And so the school results, at the end of the day, what can our children learn in school, you know? And can they maximize their learning potential? That's really what we want for any student. And in order for that to happen, you have to understand that that is a group activity, right? That involves parents, it involves students understanding right?

Speaker 1
20:46 - 21:28
And understanding what that IEP says, which as you say is a human rights aspect. And it also involves the teachers. And I think too, you know, I'm not into a confrontational situation. I don't think you win a lot of battles that way. And I think we have to understand that in our school system, unfortunately, there is so much to understand with special education that some teachers are a little bit uncertain of how to apply this. So that to me is why it's so important to involve the student, especially when we're talking high school students, right?

Speaker 1
21:28 - 22:20
And the parents and the teachers. I think a great IEP is something that you update your accommodations every semester because the parents, the student, and the teacher have decided, and maybe the student primarily, right, has decided this is the focus, this is the, you know, aspect I want to learn to strengthen. in my learning, right? And that requires self-advocacy. That's the second part of my business, right? Is that if you don't have a student who can come to a teacher in a non-adversarial way, right? And say, you know, I am, you know, like 65% of people, I'm a visual learner.

Speaker 1
22:21 - 23:13
And, you know, when you are talking, I benefit from a graph being up there. I benefit from images being up there. I benefit from something as simple as a written agenda on the board. It doesn't have to be lengthy, you know, you can take out your your marker and you can write, you know, intro, concept, etc., you know, work plan, and if you are highly inspired, write, you know, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, etc., and how that class is ideally going to unfold. Every teacher knows that anyway, right? And so I think that when you are, I think parents have to have to have a focus with their child of what it is their target is that year.

Speaker 1
23:13 - 24:03
You can't look at those psych assessments and try to tackle every topic. That's not realistic. And unfortunately our school system, you know, we We as teachers believe every child can learn given enough support and enough time. Our school system is mostly based on semesters and you have four and a half months to, you know, to receive, retain and retrieve that information and that learning. And I think you really have to be very Concentrated on what your focus is, especially when you have accommodations right what is it that's going to support you. And that self advocacy I am.

Speaker 1
24:06 - 24:57
my school board, and I still am connected with them because they offer some fantastic extracurricular learnings. And several years ago, they started what was called the Summer Institute. And the first year I went, I think other than the people organizing it, there was myself and one other. But nonetheless, one of the key focuses that they had the right to read was just coming into play at that point, but one of the key speakers they had was a young man named Lederich Horn. And LeDerick Horne is an American young man. He's a spoken word artist. But he had a learning disability all through school.

Speaker 1
24:57 - 25:39
And it wasn't until about grade 10 that he started working with some teachers who, you know, said, well, here is here is what your learning disability is, and here are some strategies to support that. And that led to him being able to self-advocate for his own learning, and now he's a motivational speaker, which I tried to get to come into our school, but honestly his budget's a little bit beyond ours. But dynamic young man. He's published a couple of books, Empowering Students with Hidden Disabilities. I have one of them. If I hold it up, it'll be backwards, so I won't bother.

Speaker 1
25:39 - 26:22
But A Path to Pride and Success. And it was really listening to him maybe six years ago that inspired me to say, you can't leave out the student. You know, it is the student that really has to drive this. And, you know, and so part of what I have done over the last several years in my job, in my career, and part of what my business is doing now is, you know, working at once the parents kind of understand what those assessments says and what the school needs to implement, right, as a group. And I believe less is more, right?

Speaker 1
26:23 - 26:44
Have the teachers on your side, they are so important, and help them, right? To a certain extent. Say, this is our focus, these are, you know, and Johnny, Sarah, Abraham, whoever, is going to, you know, they're going to speak up on their behalf. And because they need it.

Cheryl
26:46 - 27:32
Well, and I'd love to go, excuse me, back to, okay, you know, when I was doing the same job in high school, I always went to, we called it an IPRC. Yes. That was kids in grade eight moving into grade nine, but had an IEP. That was my job to explain to the parent what we had, what supports we had, but it was also their job to explain to me who their kid was, because nobody knows your kid better than their parent. Sometimes I think we look at all this documentation and we say, well, this is your kid, this is your kid, this is your kid, and parents are going, no, that's not my kid at all.

Cheryl
27:32 - 27:42
So, when we sit down with these assessments with parents, it would be, you know, for me, I copy it. And then I have notes all over. So

Speaker 4
27:42 - 27:43
yes,

Cheryl
27:43 - 28:23
captive language. Well, what does that actually mean? Expressive language. What does that actually mean? For example, and concrete examples for the parent. And they always go, oh yeah, yeah, that's exactly my kid. So when I go to these IPRCs in grade eight, I never sit down without the kid. And I tell that to the, you know, the certain grade eight when we're arranging these meetings and sometimes the parents are like, well, no, I don't really, then I won't sit down there. And I'm very, I'm very adamant about it because I feel like I know, you know, parents feel like maybe we're having these conversations and they're going to think there's something wrong with them, but it's the opposite.

Cheryl
28:24 - 28:58
If we're having these conversations without our kid, I feel like it creates a sense of shame. Like we're hiding this and my parents are protecting me and, you know, this is just the way it is. And when we sit down as soon as possible that the kids are at the developmental level to hear it, that they understand that this is just your glasses, this is just your wheelchair, this is just your insulin, this is all this is and you have every right to this because we all learn differently. And I find whenever we come up against that resistance, it's always fear.

Cheryl
28:59 - 29:30
People are frigging scared. What does this mean? Are they ever going to graduate? Are they ever going to live in my basement for the rest of my life? Like, are they, you know, it's very realistic fear. And if we can be that voice in between, that's not, this is nothing to be afraid of. This is actually a good thing because now we know. And now we know moving forward. And when we come against resistance, even with teachers, You know, sometimes you get into the class and the teacher's like, I don't have time for this. I have.

Cheryl
29:31 - 29:41
And I understand. But when we even have strong examples, like you said, I need a graph on the board. Well, who wouldn't benefit from the graph on the board? Yes.

Speaker 4
29:42 - 29:42
Yes.

Cheryl
29:43 - 30:29
Who wouldn't benefit from having an agenda or having a checkbox on the board? Who would not benefit from that? Where I used to call it with teachers at the beginning of every semester, we are front end loading all of this. So we're looking at these specific things. Maybe we pick five goals. Is there some way we can put one of these or five of these goals into the classroom? Can we build this in? This is inclusion. This is inclusion. This isn't, oh, Johnny needs the board to the left. Everybody else can have, no, no. And there are, there are different, you know, accommodations like extra time and things that really, you know, require assessments in some ways.

Cheryl
30:29 - 31:02
But I feel like if we could sit down in grade eight, have a look at these assessments, and really itemize what everything means. And here's an example of, so parents don't feel like, I have no idea what's happening here. And I don't know what to ask. And if the kid's at the table, what do I say to them? How do you feel about this? What is the hardest part about this? And they'll tell you. And what is the best part about this? And what do you like about this? Because whatever they like is what they're motivated in.

Cheryl
31:02 - 31:46
And whatever they're motivated in is their strength. So let's build on the strength. And if we look at things like as adults, I am not the least bit motivated to look at an Excel spreadsheet. If there's nothing on it, I break out in hives. That's just the way it is. So I am not motivated to do anything like that. And so, why do I want to sit here and try and try and try when I know what I'm looking at Excel spreadsheet, I'm not going to learn anything from it. But can we shift that and say, well, let's put this into words, let's put this into colors, let's put this into pictures, like all sometimes, and it can feel so overwhelming to teachers, I understand that.

Cheryl
31:47 - 32:14
But if we can, you as an advocate, me as an advocate, can we be that middle voice that says, no, no, no, that's not at all what it is. This is so implementation is easy here. Let's try this. And it's not always easy, but there are so many little things that teachers can put into place that just completely accommodates everybody in the room.

Speaker 1
32:15 - 33:09
You know what, you're referring, of course, Cheryl, to that growth mindset, right? And I think, let's be honest, a lot of parents, maybe not people who listen to your podcast, right? But there are a lot of parents that find the school system a little bit intimidating. And I actually was chatting with a mutual acquaintance of ours yesterday, and she was referring to a couple of parents who were meeting with the admins teams in their children's respective schools and advocating for their child. I think that the growth mindset, the concept that you're right, when you look at these assessments, the assessments are very dry, right?

Speaker 1
33:10 - 34:00
But as I mentioned, they're kind of, you know, the base points, they're not the end result, right? And I think that's the important thing. I had at another of my summer institutes this past summer, which was much better attended than the one I had. I happen to have the benefit of listening to a professor from St. John Fisher University in Rochester, Dr. Whitney Rapp. And Dr. Whitney Rapp has written what I'm going to say, and you'll recognize this, is probably one of the current educational Bibles. And it's, you know, educational theories come and go. But this is a great one, and it's a great one especially for all students.

Speaker 1
34:01 - 34:47
And that is the Universal Design for Learning, UDL. This is our educational Bible. And so, and it's been around for what, the last four years? It's been fairly, you know, pushed through the education system, first to department heads and then to teachers. And it's a hundred ways, and there's one page, one double page on each of these hundred ways of teaching to all students in your classroom. And relatively simple things to do, like the agenda on the board, right? Or like, you know, so we learn, or all of us learn, you know, either visually, auditorily, right?

Speaker 1
34:48 - 35:42
Or, you know, or by doing, right? My dryer bit the dust last week, right? And my first thought, you talk about your Excel spreadsheets, my first thought was I'm phoning the appliance guy. And my husband's in there tearing the thing apart, and he comes back with this little clearly burnt, I don't know what it was, piece that joins A and B, right? And said, here's the problem, right? Well, never in a million years would I have started taking that dryer apart. That's just not my shtick, right? So, you know, when you look at this universal design for learning, these ways that teachers can implement into their classrooms for all students, That, you know, having students and addressing their needs should not be overly difficult generally, right?

Speaker 1
35:43 - 36:29
And, you know, you talk about the IPRCs. My background is primarily with the Catholic Board in Ontario. And we do recognize IPRCs. And so we do, I have done IPRCs. And the great thing about an IPRC is really that it does involve or should involve everyone, and it is a yearly update. I felt, personally, because in the Catholic board, you can put in accommodations, if you have a proper assessment, from, you know, depending on what it is, it could be from a doctor, a psychologist, a psychiatrist, you know, whatever the support needs are, but a proper assessment, you can put all those accommodations in place.

Speaker 1
36:30 - 37:26
And they travel from the high school right through to the university or college, right? But one of the things, the advantages of an IPRC is it often is a yearly update, especially if something new has come to mind. Whereas it's very easy to have those IEPs just roll over without addressing them. One of the things that happened when I was in the Summer Institute talking to Dr. Whitney Rapp, I was one of those people who had a question at the end of what she had said, and I'm very familiar with the Universal Design for Learning, but she is writing another book that's coming out this spring, which I'm intent on getting, and so I ended up having lunch with her on that day and asking her about her book, which is how to support students with executive functioning issues.

Speaker 1
37:29 - 38:06
which generally prevents us, as we all know, if we have a plan, we backward design it, you know, I would like to a year from now have achieved this, right? And, you know, how am I going to get from here to there? And people with executive functioning problems generally have a hard time starting and putting those plans into place. For our students, that looks like a culminating task. something that we chunk in the school, that we break down, that we, you know, ideally have little meetings along the way to make sure everyone's on plan, and we teach them how to do that, right?

Speaker 1
38:07 - 39:07
But she actually, her book is one of her children, I think has, I know, has executive functioning problems, and this steered her interest in that direction. So, there is so much out there. And it is my current ambition to help both parents, to help families, and ultimately help teachers to support those students, right? And I just, I find the whole thing very, very fascinating and very rewarding when you see it click. And I think You know, I mentioned earlier that knowledge is power. I think for students to understand, you know, and I think if we all had assessments, we'd all see our strengths very obviously, and we'd all see our weaknesses very obviously.

Speaker 1
39:07 - 39:54
And I, you know what, years ago I realized I could not write an essay to save my life. And I had to strategize how I was going to get essays written, you know. It just, I'm great with numbers, I'm great with visual, but getting those words to come off the ceiling and down onto the page was a big problem for me. And there are strategies to support everyone. And we have to take ownership. We all have to take ownership of our own learning. And by doing so, we become very confident, very successful. And I believe, too, nothing breeds, I'm full of cliches this morning, apparently, nothing breeds success like success.

Speaker 1
39:54 - 40:41
If you show a student that doing this tiny thing can lead to success, The student is thrilled. The parents have a sense of positivity. There is their start into growth mindset if it didn't exist before. And the teacher is also supported by seeing that that small Maybe they haven't done anything different in their classroom. Maybe they've just been a little bit more conscious of this or that. Or maybe the student has said, you know what, I'm sorry, just as a reminder, can you give me an outline before? Right? Maybe it's difficult for me to write my notes and listen to you at the same time.

Speaker 1
40:42 - 41:20
right? It's not cheating to have me listen to you and then have the opportunity perhaps to ask you questions. Can you clarify this for me? But if I'm sitting there trying to write down I'm going to fall behind, and I'm not really going to, you know, so all of these strategies are important, and all of these strategies, when I work with a student, obviously it's through the parents, you know, and I say, can I go over the strengths that your child has, because that's what they're going to build upon. And let's target and your child can pick out what they would like to target.

Speaker 1
41:21 - 42:07
And that goes into what are they taking this semester? You know, are they taking English? Are they taking math, sciences, some kind of communication tech? What are they doing? What did they need to support their learning? And then let's focus on strategies. I oftentimes meet with the student once a month and say, okay, so here's a strategy. Try this out in this class. let me know how it works, right? If it doesn't work, if it's not as successful as it should be, we're going to implement another strategy. But we're not going to give up because there are so many strategies and so many ways of supporting you and helping the teacher support you too.

Speaker 1
42:07 - 42:16
But you're right, if I come back to it, it has to be an entire group um effort right

Cheryl
42:17 - 43:12
and you're right I mean sometimes teachers get again I totally understand overwhelmed with the expectations and then you say you know I'm going to use an example of you know students who just go into full-blown anxiety because they don't want to stand up in front of the class and do a presentation so let's just use that as an example And I mean, full-blown anxiety. Parents are calling, teachers are like, well, no, that's just the way, and I'm not, you know, that's just the way it is. Because a lot of teachers, I think, are following a curriculum in black and white And if you go back to that curriculum, does it say they must present this information in front of the class as one person standing up doing a presentation?

Cheryl
43:12 - 43:44
Well, I'm going to say 98% of the time. It's to be safe. It does not say that in the curriculum. They need to demonstrate this skill. Well, they're going to have to do meetings. They're going to have to stand up in public. Yes, at one point they might, but right now it's so important to meet our kids where they're at. So many people come into grade nine and I hear teachers say, well, they have to write this essay and stand up in front of the class because I'm preparing them for Queens University. they're in grade nine.

Cheryl
43:44 - 44:27
So you're preparing them for grade 10. That's what you're preparing them for. That's the realistic jump. If we are saying to kids, you have to do this, this, and this, because when you're 40, you have to do, like, that's just shut down information. You know, so when you have a kid who has, you know, you really want them to bring that to the class, Can they do a videotape? Can they record themselves and send it in? Can they do it right in front of their best friend and send it in? Can they do it with the teacher once and send, you know, like there's so many little things, but, you know, that's, I think that's our job as advocates to say, well, there's all different angles to look at and let's go right to the curriculum first.

Cheryl
44:28 - 44:38
and see where this curriculum, what's expected in this curriculum, how does this jive with the assessment and the IEP? And can we make those connections?

Speaker 1
44:39 - 45:29
Well, you know what, Cheryl, there are so many ways for students to demonstrate what they have learned, right? And that, you're right, the big, the presentation one is major. And, you know, I agree with you. It's, I think, you know, there's ways of getting around it, you know, and oftentimes we, you know, students can do it with me and I'll record it, you know, or they can do it one-to-one with their teacher or as you say in their friends. At a certain point I will say to students, would it be possible for you to do a PowerPoint and sit in the back of the blackened classroom and perhaps voice over some comments through the PowerPoint, you know, and you work up to that stage.

Speaker 1
45:30 - 46:25
I was thinking of our school system, because, you know, once again, we have that four and a half month time frame for learning the content. But we also have, you know, our junior, primary junior, intermediate and senior. And two things, and you touched on it yourself when you talked about the transition from grade 8 into grade 9, two things that really have bothered me about our system, and I don't see it changing anytime soon, but again, knowledge is power, right? And, you know, our intermediate grades go from grade 7 to grade 10. I can remember when, and I can't give you the year, I should have looked it up, but I can remember, it's within the last 20-25 years, when students only needed to go to grade 10 in Ontario.

Speaker 1
46:26 - 47:15
You could leave at the end of grade 10. So, first of all, we have this kind of block of teachers which now are separated, you know, half of those intermediate, seven-eighths are in elementary, nine and ten are in high school, and there is a vast divide between elementary and high school. My job last year was actually working directly with the board. and working, I was assigned various grade 8 classrooms and grade 9 classrooms, primarily in math, and with my background in special education, to help bridge the gap, which can be massive, especially with those de-streamed classes in grade 9, could be massive coming from grade 8 to grade 9.

Speaker 1
47:15 - 48:09
And some of the problems were based down in strategies of teaching. Right? How do grade 8 teachers teach, you know, large classes with every, you know, ability in them? Versus going into grade 9 where teachers, some of those courses are still not curriculum written, they're still under academic codes. And the teachers are, well, this is an academic code, an academic course, right? And so it's getting those, again, those universal design for learning into those classrooms. And then you're right, we have the senior teachers who traditionally, now most of the teachers, let's be honest, teaching now, we're not necessarily teaching when you could leave school at the end of grade 10, right?

Speaker 1
48:09 - 49:00
So, but there is a philosophy, you're right, that we're now teaching grade 11 and 12 and we're preparing them for university. And, you know, I understand that philosophy, but universities are changing as well. And we are not, you want your student or students to love learning. We, you know, we have a lot of students that can memorize and regurgitate. That's not, you know, and they might have great marks. Those aren't the students necessarily that are going to do well in university or college or life, right? We need people to be able to troubleshoot. And in order to do that, we need people, students who are able to be engaged.

Speaker 1
49:01 - 49:49
And you brought upon something else about, you know, I have been on parent forums for various schools and listened to parents reach out. For example, their child needs noise-canceling headphones. They like to listen to music. It helps them concentrate. And they want to do that in an essay, you know, an exam situation. And the schools are adamant they cannot do it, although it's in their IEP, right? When you look at what a memory aid is, and a memory aid you can use all through Queen's. When you look at a memory aid, a memory aid is not notes.

Speaker 1
49:50 - 50:07
It's not a cheat sheet. It's not, you know, how do I solve this equation or whatever the case might be. A memory aid is something that tweaks your memory and gets you back to it. So to a certain extent, when I was studying in university, I would listen to certain music.

Speaker 3
50:08 - 50:08
And

Speaker 1
50:09 - 50:47
I have very much not a photographic memory, but a visual memory. I could kind of see the indentation on the page I might be referring to. And I could kind of hum my Emerson Lake and Palmer or whatever. as I'm writing that to help me remember, right? And that's really what those, you know, people would say the school said, now fine, they were overruled. I said, go back and look, because they cannot say no to this, right? People said, well, you know, teachers would say, and the admin said, well, they could cheat. Well, they can't cheat.

Speaker 1
50:47 - 51:31
If they don't have a phone there, if they have a playlist, if that playlist and that phone is out of the room or with the teacher, and they just said it, and they're just sitting there, right? Now they're not distracted by anything else. This is perfect. And it's not hard. It's not hard. And yet people would weigh in and say, no, no, it can't be done. You know, why is it that when we are trying to teach students to research something, why would we not allow them, within reason, why would we not allow them to pick a subject they're interested in?

Speaker 1
51:32 - 52:17
You know, once they make it out of high school, right, and they're going on to whatever post-secondary education they require, they are going to choose, hopefully, something they're interested in. I have a ton of friends who have chosen things that they thought they should take. Engineering, go to any high school, the math department's full of engineers who all graduated from engineering and hated it. You know, they said, this isn't what I wanted to do. I have friends from my school who I've run into, you know, 10, 20, 30 years after graduating from high school. I knew they became lawyers, you know, and for them, they just didn't like it.

Speaker 1
52:17 - 53:18
Many of them are actually teaching in the law system, right? But they love it. I believe that when you allow a child, when you provide an environment that allows a child to, a student, to really become engaged, become fascinated with their own learning, become overjoyed with the success of what they can accomplish, right? that whatever they choose to do, they're going to do well at it, you know? And the, you know, the money, the supporting themselves, all those other things are going to follow, because if you are happy with what you're doing, you know, you're going to, and let's be honest, wherever you start at the age of 25, and I don't know about your background, but I'm going to tell you, Cheryl, I have gone through through many journeys in my lifetime.

Speaker 1
53:18 - 53:48
I can't believe, you know, had you asked me at 25, would I be sitting here now at my current age, you know, I would probably be amazed, you know. But it has, opportunities have opened up. Some have appealed to me, others have not. You know, those that have appealed to me, I've stepped into those openings, into those journeys, and I'm still learning and I'm still loving it. And I want our students to have the same feeling.

Cheryl
53:49 - 54:26
Yes. Well, I'll tell you, I got out of high school, and I went to private hairdressing school. So I was a hairdresser. And then my partner and I at the time, we owned salons. And then we bought a pizzeria. And then I got bored. So I thought, oh, you know, maybe I could teach hairdressing. So I went to hairdressing school to just teach it. and then fell in love with these students that just had different ways of learning. And my whole brain is like outside the box, outside the box. So my strengths are think outside the box and crisis management.

Cheryl
54:26 - 54:50
That was my jam. And so what do I have to do now? Well, now I'm going to Queens. So now I can actually teach in high school and landed the headship of special education and 15 years of my joy. Like one of those things where you get up before the alarm, you don't want to leave. Every day you just feel like you're in flow all the time. That's what you want for kids.

Speaker 1
54:51 - 54:51
And no,

Cheryl
54:51 - 55:33
it's not linear at all. But if somebody said to me, your life is going to be the same as in high school. And I look at these kids and I hear parents say, oh my God, they're just going to fail. They can't sit still. How are they going to learn? But if you understand that from grade, whatever, to 12, we are really having kids conform to our educational system. So sit in the chair. Here's the 4 walls. Here's the board. Pay attention. Sit still. Excuse me. And then they get to pick their college courses or their university courses.

Cheryl
55:34 - 56:16
And it's like you said, everything they love, you will see your kid just bloom. So if you're in, you know, your kid's in high school and you're panicking about college or how they're gonna do that, they will bloom because everything they pick is everything they love. And so they are so motivated, and you're right, like why can't even in high school, if kids are writing an essay or doing a presentation or whatever, why are we narrowing down what they can and cannot talk about, what they can and cannot learn about, you know, even simple things like so many teachers would say to me, oh, he doesn't pay attention.

Cheryl
56:16 - 56:53
He just sits and doodles the whole time I talk. He's not even looking at me. He's not paying attention. And I instantly go, you need to watch me in a staff meeting. because I cannot look up and listen to a principal talk unless my pen is moving on my paper. I'm doodling. I'm not doing anything. I'm drawing hearts and clouds, and I'm not a visual artist, so it goes in the garbage after. But it's the way I listen to my hand to be moving. And that has, if a teacher or even the parent can sit back and say, does this have any impact on me?

Cheryl
56:53 - 57:02
Or are they still able to demonstrate the information in whatever way they can demonstrate? Bang, we've got it.

Speaker 1
57:03 - 57:40
Well, no, and you know what, you're 100% correct. And I, you know, you talk about being in a staff meeting and listening to, and I hate to say this, but, you know, our minds all wander, right? And it's almost impossible to focus your mind, you know, as an adult, I can only imagine as a teenager, right, on something. And I have gotten to the point that stage where I've said, had to put up my hand or, you know, say, listen, I hate to tell you this, I'm 100% sure that what you just said over the last five minutes was really important, and I heard none of it.

Speaker 1
57:42 - 58:22
And I'm not, I'm not too self conscious to actually admit that. There's no UDL in the staff meeting. Well, well, well, exactly. Right. The other thing is, you know, that our students in this day and age are are surrounded, now please believe me, especially as a math teacher, right? I believe you should know how to add and multiply. I think when you get into high school, that ability is going to save you vast amounts of confusion, frustration and time, right? If you understand those basic concepts. And I think that goes as well for writing and for creating art or whatever it is, right?

Speaker 1
58:23 - 59:15
So I do believe there's certain basic criteria that every student should know. But, you know, when we look around, we're sitting on these lovely devices that have currently, touch wood, have access to tons of information. Right? And I think, you know, we have an overload of information. I think more importantly, especially in Ontario, and especially in our current world, it's really important that we are somehow able to look at the information and give our own spin on it. And when you're looking in a classroom and you have 26, 28, 30 students, you know, and each of those students, you're saying, okay, so here's my job, what's my goal as a teacher?

Speaker 1
59:15 - 1:00:00
My goal as a teacher is to have them be able to research valid information. So, let's see what's valid and what's, there's lots of garbage, right? That's not valid. So, let's see how we can research valid information. Let's see how we can pull it together under, you know, some umbrella topic that everyone's going to do, but in their own interest level. And then more importantly, let's see how we can or each student can communicate that back to their fellow students, whether that's in an open presentation or a series of videos or, you know, whatever it might be, a series of collages.

Speaker 1
1:00:00 - 1:00:59
Because then, right, you have an enriched learning experience for every person, including the teacher, by the way, in the classroom. Because we have, I mean, you know, walk into any of our classrooms, right? You have people who are relatively new to the country. within the last year or two. You have people who've been here for 400 years, well, the family. You have all kinds of different cultures and religions and backgrounds, you know, economic, social, religious, right? What an opportunity to share with everyone, what a learning opportunity to share. If each of those students is empowered to feel that they can learn, that they can contribute, and they can share.

Speaker 1
1:00:59 - 1:01:06
I mean, if we had more of that in the world, I think we'd have less problems, right? But yes. And I'm thinking of the students

Cheryl
1:01:06 - 1:01:50
who don't require you know a different a differentiated way of demonstrating watching this play out yes like it's not just the kid who needs the support it's this kid going oh wow that's a different way to do it oh wow that that that my friends is inclusion not you know not segregating not isolating that is inclusion not just this is Good for all. This is education for all. And it's so important. It's like when you do your work at home, even as a parent, if you're meditating, if you're journaling, if you're looking after yourself, it's not just for you.

Cheryl
1:01:50 - 1:02:07
Your kid is actually watching you do this. And they might think you're crazy at first. But I'm telling you, when they see what it does for you, then they learn what it can do for them. And I think that's, that's like, that's just a global compassion.

Speaker 1
1:02:09 - 1:02:55
Well, you know, it is, it is. And I think it's needed. And I think our, you know, I think they've done so much research. I mean, I feel I feel that every student should be encouraged to do this. The students that have, you know, are at the top of the learning scale, I'll say, right, where it's easy for them, need to be challenged too. Right? And a need to broaden perspectives. And I think that we need people, you mentioned thinking outside the box, right? Thinking outside the box is so important. And, you know, creativity, I think creativity feeds our soul, first of all, personally.

Speaker 1
1:02:57 - 1:04:04
But these are the thinkers and these are the future social, you know, people in our environment, workers, employees, business leaders, environmentalists. These are the people that we need. So I think the fact is that we have a system that we can work with and that every single student in our system should achieve their full potential. And our society, you know, that we all live in, that we all share, cannot afford not to support every learner in our system. Everyone has something to contribute, whether they're even aware of it or not. And it's important. And this is, you know, what you mentioned at the very beginning about passion, right?

Speaker 1
1:04:05 - 1:04:57
And I think it is You know, other people have other ways of supporting, but this is my way of supporting. And I really love working with students. I love seeing them achieve. But it's a community effort, right? It has to have parents. It has to have an informed, knowledgeable student who knows and feels that there is growth potential. That there's nothing shameful, you know, that we all have strengths and we all have weaknesses, right? And to calmly and easily communicate that with teachers, right? And so, you know, I think it's I think it's a career well worth pursuing and helping people.

Speaker 1
1:04:57 - 1:04:58
I

Cheryl
1:04:58 - 1:05:23
can't imagine not doing anything else in whatever format. Now doing this for me is just getting the messages saying, oh, you're talking right to me. And yes, this is exactly what I mean. And I know we have to wrap up. But what I want to say is I think there's some really great messages here. Number one. parents, you are, you're not alone, and you don't have

Speaker 1
1:05:23 - 1:05:23
to

Cheryl
1:05:23 - 1:05:56
go through this alone. You don't have to be intimidated, you don't have to be like running to the board office because something didn't happen. There are, you know, there are steps to take that, you know, if you need a voice, missing link for you would be an advocate. Somebody like Judy, somebody like myself, who can sit down with you and just isolate what this actually means. I know you just spent three grand, I know you're looking at 30 pages, but you're not expected to know this. This isn't something in the manual when you give birth.

Cheryl
1:05:57 - 1:06:35
It just isn't. So there's people like Judy and I who live for this stuff. This is our jam. And so, if you need a voice in this school, if you need a voice at home, if your kid needs a voice, then an advocate is the way to go. You just don't have to do this by yourself. I think that's one big message. And I think the other message is when you are in meetings or talking to parents or talking to teachers and you're coming up against anger and frustration, back it up a little bit and know that that's actually fear.

Cheryl
1:06:37 - 1:07:05
Fear for the parent because they don't know what the hell's going to happen to their kid later. Fear for what that means. Fear from the teacher thinking, I don't have time. I don't know how to help. I don't know, you know, fear from the school. We don't have the resources. We don't have the money. But if we can like drill down that this is the fear. And let me put your fear at rest first, because there are so many You know, I think fear kind of closes our mind to, I can't, I can't, I can't.

Cheryl
1:07:06 - 1:07:41
And then people like us come in and say, no, no, no, no, you can. And here's how. Life is going to be so much better after. I just, I just, I love our jobs. I love our jobs. Judy, I can't thank you enough for being here. I do feel like there's probably a sequel coming. I think we have so much more to say. There's something about, you know, the passion in this work that just speaks volumes. And I love that you're doing what you're doing. I'm so grateful for you in the world. Is there any last words, any last messages you have before we wrap up?

Speaker 1
1:07:42 - 1:08:08
Well Cheryl, other than thanking you very much for having me, you know, to parents listening, don't despair. There are very simple solutions to help you and your child advocate and succeed through the system. And don't hesitate to reach out. Absolutely.

Cheryl
1:08:09 - 1:08:11
And Judy, how can we find you? How can we work with you?

Speaker 1
1:08:12 - 1:08:36
Well, I have a website called The Students Advocate, which you can just log into and find more about me. I have a contact page and an email, Judy at thestudentsadvocate.ca. So I would be thrilled to answer any questions and meet up with people and see if my services align with the parents' desires and wants. Love it.

Cheryl
1:08:37 - 1:09:16
Thank you. That will all be in the show notes, so don't think that you have to memorize that. And once again, thank you for listening to Parenting Teens Advice Redefined. I appreciate that you are spending time really still looking for solutions to support your kids, to support yourself. And parenting is freaking hard and we know that. And as long as you are still doing things like this, Googling, podcasting, reading, then you're not failing. You're still trying and there's still an answer. And we love you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for listening to another episode.

Cheryl
1:09:16 - 1:09:55
I hope you loved this one as much as I did. And I just wanted to share something with you because, you know, parenting teens is not just about managing these challenges that we talk about on all the episodes. It's also about evolving alongside them. And I'm Cheryl, and not only the host of this podcast, but I'm also the creator of Insight to Impact Coaching and Consulting. And I help you moms of teens reconnect with your true selves so you can lead with purpose, you can parent with clarity, you can create stronger, more meaningful relationships with your kids.

Cheryl
1:09:55 - 1:10:33
Because here's the truth. The transformation starts with you. Together, we will break free from the stress and overwhelm. We will rediscover your power. We will create the life and the family dynamic you always dreamed of. If you're ready to start this journey, let's do it. You might just not recognize your life in the next 90 days. It all starts with a call. There's no pitch. There's no pressure, just a call to see if I can help. We'll talk about your goals, we'll talk about what's making you feel stuck and what might be getting in your way and everything you need to connect with me is in the show notes.

Cheryl
1:10:33 - 1:10:46
Again, I'm Cheryl, thank you so much for joining me here on Parenting Teens, advice redefined for today's complex world and the creator of Insight to Impact, coaching and consulting. Have a great day.