#128 "Creating Safe Spaces: Talking to Teens About Suicide and Mental Health" with Iuri Melo

#schoolpulse # Teenmentalhealth #Iurimelo #suicideprevention

Navigating Teen Mental Health: A Conversation with Iuri Melo

 In this powerful episode of "Parenting Teens: Advice Redefined for Today's Complex World," host Cheryl Pankhurst welcomes back Iuri Melo, a licensed clinical social worker and co-founder of School Pulse. Together, they delve into the critical topic of teen suicide prevention and self-harm, offering insights and strategies for parents navigating these challenging waters. Iuri shares his expertise on creating safe spaces for teens, recognizing warning signs, and the importance of open communication. This episode is a beacon of hope, emphasizing the power of connection and understanding in supporting our youth.

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Speaker 1
00:00 - 00:42
you Welcome to another episode of Parenting Teens Advice, redefined for today's complex world. I'm your host, Cheryl Pankhurst, and I'm so grateful that you're with us today. And my guest is a returning one, Yuri Melo is a licensed clinical social worker, father of five, co-founder of School Pulse, a groundbreaking student support service that delivers positivity, emotional support, and growth mindset via text and email. After several heartbreaking teen suicides in his community, Gary launched School Pulse in 2017 to offer proactive mental wellness support to students across the country.

Speaker 1
00:42 - 01:18
And I said this last time he was on, I'll say it again, this work is revolutionary. So today's episode, we did a second one because we really wanted to do a targeted intentional episode that addresses a topic that is very heavy but very crucial, teen suicide prevention and self-harm. Yuri is returning to help us navigate these painful but important conversations with clarity and care. So before we begin, please note, this episode contains discussions of suicide, self-harm and mental health crisis.

Speaker 1
01:19 - 01:40
And if this is not the right time for you to listen, please take care of yourself and come back when you're ready. This conversation is meant to offer support, education and connection, not fear. If you're a parent struggling to understand your teen's pain or you've lost a child and are navigating grief, you are not alone. So let's dive in.

Speaker 1
01:40 - 01:46
Welcome, Yuri. Welcome back. Cheryl, fabulous to be here. Lovely to see you again.

Speaker 1
01:47 - 01:58
And thanks for the invite coming back. And yeah, I actually really loved that introduction. And I appreciate just your tenderness and gentleness with that. It is amazing.

Speaker 1
01:59 - 02:46
Over the years as I've been a therapist for a long time, it always amazes me the power that trauma can have in our lives. And I always kind of, whenever I'm talking about trauma to individuals, I always tell people that the problem with trauma isn't that it happened years ago, it's that it's happening now. It's that residue that continues to impact someone's behavior, their thinking, their feeling. And sometimes it happens It's almost precognition, meaning something occurs and that trauma is brought up to the surface and that person feels a little bit out of control.

Speaker 1
02:46 - 02:59
It's so challenging. So I'm glad that you kind of started with this, like, hey, we're going to be talking about this. And if this is something you feel good about, great. If not, you know, maybe take it in small doses.

Speaker 1
02:59 - 03:36
But yeah, anyways, you're awesome. I just don't know why I ranted on to that. You know, I just wanted to say to the listeners, like in the intro, I know that Yuri is familiar with teen suicide prevention and suicide. And if my listeners are not aware, I've been in the high school system for 25 plus years and have had Way too many experiences with near misses and completions and the mental health crisis that impacts kids having hospitalization.

Speaker 1
03:36 - 04:08
And so neither of us are coming at this with, oh, I read about or I heard about we're both coming into this with. And I'm just going to get emotional already because it's just such a hard it's such a hard place to think that a kid just gets to that point. And, you know, one thing I always I say about when anybody comments on this is, well, I don't get it. And well, you don't get it and you never will, because your mind is not there.

Speaker 1
04:09 - 04:32
Your thinking is not there. Your emotions are not there. So you'll never understand. And when I hear anybody even say something in the line of selfishness, I lose my mind because when somebody thinks the world is better without them, it is the least selfish move in their capacity of thinking.

Speaker 1
04:33 - 05:05
So I just wanted to say that we're not just like I read it in a magazine or I heard it here. There's some training like we're here, we're in it, we know and we just want to help. And so, you know, I want to kind of start usually we talk about if we have a program or something going to talk about at the end. But I think I would love the listeners to hear first how your program helps and prevents and what it does, because I would love to start a conversation like this with hope, as opposed to, here's what's going on, let's end with hope.

Speaker 1
05:05 - 05:29
I really want to start with hope. Well, I would love that. And I will absolutely say that, especially the more I engage with our teens. And I know that, obviously, the Surgeon General, at least here in the United States, basically stated that the teen mental health crisis was the defining crisis of our time.

Speaker 1
05:29 - 06:15
And then there are other books. You know, and the data that is released is not heartwarming, right? I mean, we look at the numbers of, like, young men and young women who, you know, are reporting suicidal ideation, who are reporting, you know, feeling persistently sad, and those numbers are incredibly high. And yet, and yet, I want to say And in a way, I think I have a little bit of an interesting view into this that maybe contrasts just a little with some of those numbers, in part because as part of our service, Cheryl, is we proactively text students

Speaker 1
06:16 - 06:46
Tuesdays and Fridays, like, I mean, throughout the entire year, throughout the holiday, throughout the summer months. And I just wanna say, that our youth are, they're just dynamite. They're awesome. Now there are some struggles and there are some things that they themselves will have to learn to figure out, like they're going to have to figure out.

Speaker 1
06:47 - 07:09
how to deal with some of the challenges that in some way, we've actually kind of placed on their plate, like, hey, here you go. And they're going to have to run with that. And I believe that they actually will run with that. But I think as some of that result and some of that adaptation or maladaptation, our kids are struggling a little bit.

Speaker 1
07:10 - 07:35
And then, of course, it comes with age, right? or really with a lack of experience, that when things occur with teens, the intensity is just higher. Like Cheryl, you and I, we've kind of been through life a little bit, right? We've taken our dings, we've had our wins, we've had our losses, we've struggled.

Speaker 1
07:36 - 08:15
And so we kind of developed this large, uh kind of whatever that is that resilience area right that kind of emotional strength that emotional muscle that can take some hits but with teens they're still developing that and so I think this is where the struggle is right is is when things hit teens it hits them hard and then their impulsivity some of their inexperience I think is what ends up leading them towards this path of You know, I want to kill myself. I want to kms. I want out i'm done, right?

Speaker 1
08:16 - 09:02
Yeah, and a lot of times I am so in agreement with you There were just people were just looking for relief, right? They're just looking for the suffering the end for the pain the end And yes their perspective is is locked in, it's obsessive, it's narrow, of course. But yeah, I just think we have to deal with these people with such a degree of gentleness. And this is where I wanna say, and it's a really long way of coming about to your question, because as we've served these students, We do get a lot of those texts back.

Speaker 1
09:03 - 09:07
I want to KMS, right? I want to kill myself. I'm done. I want out.

Speaker 1
09:09 - 09:26
Or I'm in the process of killing myself. I just took this. I just took that, right? And what we have been just incredibly, number one, thrilled and honored, because we're just absolutely honored that we're even a part of those conversations with those teens.

Speaker 1
09:27 - 09:50
But when we greet those teens, Cheryl, with some really basic skills, and one of those skills is just enthusiasm for talking to them. Like we just respond like, like we're so grateful that you're here. Like, thank you for sharing this. Thank you for telling me.

Speaker 1
09:51 - 10:13
Right. And what we have found is as we greet them this way with gentleness, with kindness, when we offer them a place that is safe, that feels secure, and we give them an opportunity to talk about what's going on, right? So that's usually one of our questions, right? It's just like, hey, can you tell me, tell me what's going on, right?

Speaker 1
10:14 - 10:51
And as a teen begins to divulge, as they begin to talk, that in and of itself is the de-escalation, like the process of talking is so therapeutic for teens. And it sounds almost ridiculous that we're doing that over text, But we are, we're doing that over text and it's powerful. And of course, parents can do it, friends can do it, they can do it over phone, they can do it in person. We've just found this little niche that happens to be quite effective as well.

Speaker 1
10:51 - 11:39
And so it is amazing. And I think that that's kind of what I wanted to say is, When kids come, when we greet them with enthusiasm, we just thank them for being there, we provide them with a safe place to just talk about, we find that that deescalates the student, right? So that then we can go from that very, right, narrow, like, this is all I can see, this is my only way out of suffering, to all of a sudden their perspective begins to broaden a little bit and they begin to see additional options and additional opportunity, and their dark pessimism, right, can then turn towards a little bit of hope, a little bit of light, and a little bit of optimism towards the future.

Speaker 1
11:39 - 12:06
But to be honest, like, you know, that's best case scenario, right? But a lot of times, man, these incredible kids, not only are they dealing with their own psychological and emotional struggles, but their own environmental struggles are beyond things we're just not even familiar with. We just don't even know. The fact that they're there is incredible to me.

Speaker 1
12:06 - 12:23
So I just love them. I respect them. Yeah, and I think that that's been part of our incredible success is we just treat them in such a kind, gentle way. We give them a place to talk.

Speaker 1
12:24 - 12:52
And that allows that emotional muscle to kind of grow. And on the other end of that is what we say, you know, I just actually spoke to someone who is on a parents on a mission and he said, you know, I don't believe it takes a village to raise a child. Like, yeah, it takes one caring adult. And on the other end of your text is that one caring adult.

Speaker 1
12:52 - 13:25
You don't need a whole village, you know, and I think, you know, even in a high school, even in, you know, if you, you know, or in a family where somebody's got a teenager who looks like they're struggling, you can be that one caring adult instead of, you know, even in the schools, teachers, admin, doesn't matter. Sometimes they assume they already have this caring adult, but they don't. So if you don't assume it and you just become it, You know, open that door, become that one character.

Speaker 1
13:25 - 13:35
You just could be changing the world for somebody. And we're just assuming, oh, they've got all kinds of brothers and sisters and friends and parents. They don't need me. Don't ever assume that because we just never know.

Speaker 1
13:35 - 13:41
We can always open that door. I think that's. Yeah, and we know that, right? I mean, the power, right?

Speaker 1
13:42 - 13:55
I mean, we all talk about community. We all talk about connection, right? The power of connection. And that is, the research is actually really cool, specifically with positive relationships, right?

Speaker 1
13:55 - 14:39
And I'm not just talking about a parent or a sibling or a boyfriend or a spouse, right? But positive relationships and the impact that those relationships have on our biology, right, on our ability to endure pain, to suffer less. In fact, I heard a really interesting, I'm gonna massacre this study, so just to say it right now, but the idea was like, if you're looking at a mountain, I'm looking at one kind of a sort of a mountain, it's kind of a hill a little bit, but if you look and you kind of see a mountain, And if you're alone, that mountain looks at a certain level of steepness, right?

Speaker 1
14:40 - 15:14
But if somebody is with you, especially if it's someone that is a friend or is caring or you have a positive relationship with that person, that immediately impacts our perception of how steep that hill is. I mean, and that's just... The evidence is great, like all the way from just having someone that is holding your hand or touching you or communicating with you and our ability to just endure longer. And of course, our goal isn't just endurance, right?

Speaker 1
15:14 - 16:02
We're just talking kind of on the negative side of things of just surviving, which is okay. We need to be there too. But that's really important is just the recognition that you I love how you said just yeah don't assume that just jump into that just settle into that role and just be that person for people because the evidence is on your side the research is on your side you're gonna have an impact for sure yeah so as adults as teachers as friends as parents let's go a little like granular here and just what are the most common warning signs that a kid is having ideation or even getting closer to like, I have a plan, I have

Speaker 1
16:02 - 16:22
a motive, I have a time, I have a date, like what are those common signs that we can like right away, our radar starts going up and we need to start moving? Yeah, there's there's a lot, right? I mean, I'm thinking. It depends on where you are, right?

Speaker 1
16:22 - 16:39
But let's just say, I mean, as a parent, I guess we can jump into that professional place as well, right? I mean, all the way from. Obviously, internally, a kid begins to ideate a little, can begin to ideate about suicide, right? About the option of not being there.

Speaker 1
16:40 - 16:55
And so what sometimes that will happen externally, like how we can see that as that begins to externalize in their language, right? They actually begin to talk about it. They'll say it like, you know, I just want to kill myself, right? And I know that kids say that, they'll joke with that.

Speaker 1
16:55 - 17:16
Um, I mean, I remember saying that when I was a kid, like, I just want to kill myself. I mean, my, I have two teenage boys and they say crap like that all the time. Like, you know, and, and obviously, I mean, we can realize when it's a joke, but a lot of times we can notice how conversation like that can begin to become a part of their posts. It becomes a part of their texts.

Speaker 1
17:16 - 17:32
It becomes a part of their conversation. Uh, of course, other behaviors that you can see that can also signal depression, right? Or signs of depression too, right? Of course, that student or that individual begins to isolate a little bit.

Speaker 1
17:32 - 17:42
They begin to withdraw. They disengage from activities. They disengage from groups. That's not always true, by the way.

Speaker 1
17:42 - 18:47
I mean, there's always kind of I mean, individual cases, everybody is singular in that respect, but those are some really basic things. Some people will see deteriorating grades, less participation in activities, obviously conversations about it, like we've talked about, and then just a general demeanor, right, where they're just, they feel off, they feel sad, they're, they seem preoccupied a lot and in their head a little bit, in part because I always find that when, and this has been, I mean, not just as a clinical therapist for the past 20 years, but even over text as we've kind of watched this, right? But usually when kids and honestly adults as well, when those thoughts begin to enter someone's mind, you know, I don't want to live anymore, or this is too much, or, you know, I don't want to be here anymore, right?

Speaker 1
18:49 - 19:02
I think that those thoughts are really embarrassing to people. They feel really ashamed that they're having them, right? Especially if it's somebody, you know, that lives here in beautiful St. George or that lives there where you are.

Speaker 1
19:02 - 19:10
They're in a situation where everything should be okay. They have a good family. They're involved in school. They have wonderful grades.

Speaker 1
19:10 - 19:25
And then all of a sudden, they begin to have these thoughts that seem to be at odds, right? They seem to be at conflict with their personal reality. And so they develop this embarrassment, this shame. And of course, that shame quiets them, right?

Speaker 1
19:25 - 19:41
It doesn't... because they're embarrassed, right? They're ashamed, they're afraid that people will find out that they're having this because somehow it could, other people could think that they're being ungrateful, right? Or selfish, you know, well, you know, the children in Ethiopia, they don't have blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is.

Speaker 1
19:41 - 20:18
I'm just being silly, but yeah, but the idea is that we sometimes, like you said, we, We try to get kids to pull out of that, right, quickly, like, hey, don't think that, or don't say those words, or don't do that. And so kids just end up feeling embarrassed. And then, of course, when we're embarrassed and ashamed, we have a tendency, right, to close in, right? Which a lot of times, that's what depression does, too, right, is depression is a very, self-enclosing disorder where we kind of close inward, right?

Speaker 1
20:18 - 20:32
We stay inside our mind a lot of time. And sometimes that can be good. That can spark some growth and some reflection that's maybe much needed. I always tell people one of the blessings of depression is that it forces you to stop.

Speaker 1
20:33 - 20:46
Like you have to stop. because something is wrong. The lights are coming on the dashboard and you're like, oh my gosh, what is going on? I am unhappy, I can't sleep, I'm in my head all the time.

Speaker 1
20:47 - 21:14
And sometimes when we stop, we can make some good adjustments. When pain comes at such a great level, we have to stop. And that can sometimes promote some growth or some insight or things like that. But suicide is challenging that way, because I'm thinking about at least three or four of these instances from schools.

Speaker 1
21:15 - 21:37
And we've been very fortunate. We've been very successful in our interventions with students. But we've heard, obviously, from other students, and we're very familiar when students take their life by suicide, that a lot of times, people will say, we would never imagine, like we would have never thought, right? And so it's really challenging to capture that.

Speaker 1
21:39 - 21:47
And parents can sense, but a lot of times, We don't know. Like we just don't know. Yeah. And there's that.

Speaker 1
21:47 - 21:59
Somebody is really dealing with that. A whole other layer for parents or anyone too is the guilt that goes with that. But we won't go, we won't go there today. Maybe that's maybe that's a third, but okay.

Speaker 1
21:59 - 22:16
So let's talk. Can we say, how do we as parents or teachers or whatever, how do we approach the conversation with the team? without increasing their distress and without pushing them away. And I know there's different levels.

Speaker 1
22:16 - 22:45
Like when I did my training, I know when a kid, when we were really, really nervous about it, I would just ask that question. We have a plan. And when I tell people that, like when I'm talking to teachers when I was in the school, ask them, they'll get me on the phone and say, this kid's saying that, ask them, ask them the question. And they're very uncomfortable to ask the question, but I'm telling you, they will tell you the truth.

Speaker 1
22:46 - 23:08
they will be in a point, in my experience, they will tell you the truth. Yep, here, when, how, why, but I'll get it all. And then I, and then we can move in with the crisis. But, you know, if we're between that and starting to see these signs, how do we have these conversations with our kids without like, like you said, putting in the shame, shutting them down?

Speaker 1
23:08 - 23:53
What are we saying to bring this to, you know, a bit of a more comfortable conversation for them? Man, I love that question, Cheryl, I'll tell you. I love that question because I feel like for parents specifically, well, and really for professionals who are dealing with these individuals, At the base of every relationship, I feel that there has to be some level of safety. And so what that means is that when we engage people, we want to do so in a way that communicates the idea that, hey, Cheryl, when you're with me, it's safe.

Speaker 1
23:53 - 24:16
It's good. You and I are good, regardless of what you tell me. And so we almost begin, I always tell people that sometimes it's good to just preface something when before you say it, just preface it. Like, so for example, I mean, you can say, maybe you found some texts in your kid's phone, right?

Speaker 1
24:16 - 24:38
Where they have reported some ideation to a friend or they've said some things. And I think you can approach that child and basically say, hey, Do you have a minute? I saw this and I think I'm right with you, Cheryl. I would come right to it.

Speaker 1
24:39 - 24:59
I wouldn't play games. I wouldn't try to have him come forward with the information. I think you just say it. But I think you can come to that and I think you could say something to the effect of Hey, I'd love a few moments to have a conversation with you.

Speaker 1
24:59 - 25:11
It might be a challenging conversation, but I love you. I care for you. I want to chat with you about this. I saw on your text that you said this and this and this.

Speaker 1
25:12 - 25:17
I wasn't aware that you were feeling that way. What's going on? How can I help? Right?

Speaker 1
25:18 - 26:02
And one of the things that we can do even as part of that conversation, especially if you want to increase the chances that that child will speak to you, is you throw yourself into the equation. And what that means is, you should talk a little bit about yourself. And you want to, in a sense, what you can do is you can normalize what they're experiencing. And the reason why we normalize, right, is because, and when I say normalize, I mean, we're trying to soften, right, the conversation so that they don't feel ashamed or embarrassed that they're doing this, but we wanna help them to realize that oftentimes when people are looking for relief,

Speaker 1
26:03 - 26:45
right, they may think those things or feel those things or feel a real desire and intention to disappear or to end or to just find some relief in some way. And then I would also go into that conversation with the awareness as a parent that this isn't just one conversation, right? That this is, this is one of many conversations that he and I, or she and I will have about how they're doing and how they're feeling and how can I help? But part of that is just sharing a little bit of yourself and maybe even just some of your own struggle.

Speaker 1
26:46 - 27:37
Um, and you don't necessarily have to have gone through your own suicidal ideation to communicate struggle, um, and sadness and disappointment, uh, and some real pain and hurt. And I think when kids see you opening up your book a little bit, I think they'll be much more likely to open up theirs because they realize instead of feeling like, wow, I'm just this like crazy person that's thinking about ending their life versus them kind of realizing like, hey, like I, you know, my dad or, or my mom, like they've been through some of this before as well. And, and this isn't about like, you know, me trying to say, I know exactly what you're going through because that's untrue, right?

Speaker 1
27:37 - 28:11
And I think we should definitely avoid those platitudes or those generalizations, which often create some of that closure or that closing that we don't want. But I would just say, you know, take your time. Those are really difficult conversations. I love to have them with my clients because I know the moment they begin to talk about it, that they will increase their ability to manage that.

Speaker 1
28:12 - 28:24
And when they don't talk about it, it manages them a little bit. They feel stuck. And a lot of times those thoughts become very obsessive. And when I say obsessive, I just mean they can't shift out of them.

Speaker 1
28:24 - 29:03
It's almost like this thing that's happening and they don't want to think about it and they want to resist it. And one of the things that I always try to do with my clients when they're kind of in the middle of that is, is I just want to say, look, we don't necessarily need to resist this, at least not resist it in the way that you're resisting it, which is I can't think about it, I can't talk about it, this is terrible. What I really want to do is I want them almost to kind of turn their body towards that thinking and let's begin to talk about it.

Speaker 1
29:04 - 29:23
Tell me about it. If you were to take those thoughts and put them into words, what would they sound like? What would they look like? And it's amazing to hear people actually take some of these abstract kind of nebulous thoughts.

Speaker 1
29:23 - 29:41
And once they put them into actual sentences, then I feel like, okay, now we can work with that. But a lot of times it's really difficult to just try to be in your head, fighting against your thoughts. We're often not very successful with those. So anyways, that was really a little random, but yeah.

Speaker 1
29:41 - 29:57
No, and it makes, it makes great sense. I love what you said. And I would love to say too, that there's, there might be people saying, Yeah, they're having these conversations, but I don't know how to fix it. I may say something wrong.

Speaker 1
29:58 - 30:12
I'm just going to like, back right off because I like, what would you say to that? Yeah, I would just I mean, I would normalize that as well, by the way, I'd be like, I totally hear you. Right? Like, we don't want to say anything wrong.

Speaker 1
30:15 - 30:51
And I would actually say, I think if your tone is good, that actually fixes a lot of our verbal inaccuracies, right? I think if you can just find a way to stay gentle, concerned, caring, we don't expect everybody to have these skills. I mean, I've now spoken to hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people who have considered that. And for a lot of parents, there's a lot of parents who maybe have never spoken to anybody who's been actively suicidal, right?

Speaker 1
30:51 - 31:16
And so in their mind, number one, it's terrifying, right? So like their emotional state is going to be incredibly high anyways. So there's a good chance that they will say something that's maybe not ideal. And that's what I would say is like, That's okay, right?

Speaker 1
31:16 - 31:34
Look, and what I would always say is just, if you say something wrong, just go back and repair it. Just repair, right? Because we are gonna do that, right? We're gonna say things in emotion, in fear, especially, right?

Speaker 1
31:35 - 31:54
That just are not gonna align very well with our own personal objective, right? And so when we do that, let's go repair. And so that's where, I'll kind of jokingly say this world needs a humility movement, but that's what we need. We just need to just, hey, that wasn't great.

Speaker 1
31:55 - 32:02
Can I come back? Can I fix that with you? Can I repair that? Like, man, last night, I was not at my best.

Speaker 1
32:03 - 32:33
I can't tell you how many times I've done that with my own kids, especially at night, where I'll just kind of go in And just like, man, that was not my best. I'm really sorry about that. And I feel like those are really important conversations that create that safety base at the bottom that I kind of talked about. And that I think can help them to develop some loyalty and trust to us.

Speaker 1
32:33 - 32:57
But that's really a challenging thing. All I would say is, is do what you can. Don't think that it's just going to be one. You're likely going to make mistakes, and if you do, if it comes across too fearful, too intense, too passionate, just go back.

Speaker 1
32:58 - 33:13
Just go back. Let's repair, because those conversations are absolutely life-saving, without a doubt. They're absolutely life-saving. I actually have no idea what to say, but I mean, I can just listen.

Speaker 1
33:13 - 33:53
And my daughter's 33 and, you know, she has actually called me out on that because I get into mom fix it mode and she just needs someone to just listen, nothing else. And sometimes as we work problems out, even though we have someone to bounce off and not say anything, as they come out of our mouths, we're like, Oh, OK, you know what, that's not that bad or I can fix that or I know that sounds I have a different perspective just hearing myself get it out there. And and I feel like, yeah, we can just say, you know what, I actually have no idea what to say, but I can listen.

Speaker 1
33:54 - 34:02
And doesn't that bring you right down to that whole level of vulnerability with them? Like they don't know either. You don't know. Maybe we figure it out together.

Speaker 1
34:03 - 34:13
Maybe we figure out someone to call. Maybe we find a resource together because neither of us know what the hell is going on. But but we're in it. And I got your back.

Speaker 1
34:13 - 34:20
And, you know, we're in this together. Not knowing what the hell to do. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 1
34:20 - 34:41
I actually really love that as well. And in fact, I find that that communication, I mean, I, you know, I, I've done thousands of, you know, initial sessions with people, right. You know, whether we're talking about kind of on our tech space platform or just in therapy and, and that's a really common language. Um, that I share with my clients, right?

Speaker 1
34:41 - 35:12
When we're just beginning the process of therapy for them to feel like, right? I'm not this like person that has all the answers, but I'm absolutely confident that together we can come to some answers and some solutions, right? And I think it's, That's part of me, I suppose, enlisting them and in the process. But one of the things that I that I've done, you know, as we we have this team right of professionals that provides this this support to students and actually parents and staff as well.

Speaker 1
35:13 - 35:23
And I've kind of created this protocol, right? That's meant. to obviously deal with situations like in a crisis, right? We kind of have a very specific protocol.

Speaker 1
35:23 - 35:30
This is what we do. This is how we talk about it. And I created this acronym. I wish it was a really good acronym.

Speaker 1
35:30 - 35:58
It's not a fabulous acronym, but it's, but it's just, it's GTMASS, like G-T-M-A-S-S. But what I like about that is, is it kind of, it's meant to kind of instruct our team of professionals on like the flow, like how we engage with people as they're just coming in or when they're in crisis. And the first thing that we do is we greet them, right? We just greet them.

Speaker 1
35:59 - 36:08
He is, We thank them, right? We just thank them for being there. Like, thank you so much for being here. So happy to hear from you, right?

Speaker 1
36:09 - 36:21
And then M is we match them. We match them where they are, right? And so when they're happy, we match. When they're not, we match right there with them.

Speaker 1
36:21 - 36:32
Oh my gosh, like tell me what's going on. What's the, you know, what happens here, right? A is we ask questions. We ask them about what's going on.

Speaker 1
36:32 - 36:45
This is part of us giving them that space that we know can be so therapeutic. It's absolutely therapeutic. And then S, I'm going to forget what that S one is. It's going to come to me in just a moment.

Speaker 1
36:46 - 37:06
But anyways, oh, it's seek to understand. Seek to understand is that one. So this is part of the asking questions, seeking to understand what that person is. And the very last S is offer suggestions, but it's the last one for a reason.

Speaker 1
37:07 - 37:50
Like it's because all of the other ones, that's the relationship. And then the final thing, and even I always tell this too, and this may actually be something really good for parents or really professionals is anytime especially when we're looking to build that safety with people, before we offer suggestions, before we give advice, before we, I find that it's very effective to ask for permission to give advice. And so I will say something like, hey, I have a couple of thoughts, or I have an idea, or I have a suggestion, can I give it to you?

Speaker 1
37:53 - 38:21
And it is because we're not just talking to hear ourselves talk. Like we're talking, we're trying to make a presentation that could be effective, right? And for things to be effective with kids and adults and professionals and the people that you're doing business with, when their heart is soft, they're just much more willing to receive what you're offering. When their heart is closed, It's just not.

Speaker 1
38:22 - 38:35
And so by us asking like, Hey, I have an idea. I have a thought. Can I share it with you? I feel like I can almost kind of see their heart just go just open a little bit, especially when they say yes.

Speaker 1
38:35 - 38:39
Right. Yes. Really? I would get so excited.

Speaker 1
38:42 - 39:06
And I remember, you know, one of my lovely kids, who's probably nine, well, he's 19 right now, but he used to get really, really angry after soccer games, obviously when he lost, right? And he was just so unbelievably competitive. And so when he would lose a game, I mean, it was like, You know, he hated everything. I mean, the parent, the ref was horrible.

Speaker 1
39:06 - 39:10
My team was terrible. My coach sucks. The grass was wrong. Blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1
39:10 - 39:27
The weather was terrible. Right. And I remember, you know, one time we were headed to a game. And he was maybe, I don't know, 14, 15, 16, I don't remember exactly when, but And I said, hey, Jonah is my boy.

Speaker 1
39:27 - 39:39
I said, Jonah, can I, can I give you some advice for today? And he told me, no, he said, no. And I totally was like, okay, but guess what? But guess what?

Speaker 1
39:39 - 39:43
He couldn't hold himself. He was like, why dad? What, what is it? Right?

Speaker 1
39:45 - 39:56
I love it. But it was, you know, but I kept it, I kept it mellow. I kept it like, Hey, you know, I just, I just have some ideas for you. Like maybe give this a go or give this a try.

Speaker 1
39:56 - 40:37
And, and I think that there's just something maybe it's at, I don't know if it's just mental or biological or if that's our spirit or soul level, but we just, we have to be our own, right? We have to be sovereign inside of us in some way. And so I think we need to, when we approach people with that level of respect, I think we get more, I think we go farther. And when we try to just, I think that kicks in, that resistance response, right?

Speaker 1
40:38 - 40:52
And one of the words that I'll use that is we can either invite, encourage, and promote the behavior that we want, or we can literally provoke people to resistance. And we just will. We totally will. Collaboration, right?

Speaker 1
40:52 - 41:08
All of it is just teaching our kids how to collaborate, how to have some feedback. And then when they are part of that feedback and things go sideways, Well, great. I think they take way more accountability because they were part of it. We weren't at them.

Speaker 1
41:08 - 41:11
You must do this. You have to do this. Try this. And they're not part of it.

Speaker 1
41:11 - 41:17
And things go sideways. And they're like, see, told you. But if they're part of it. Okay, what do you think?

Speaker 1
41:18 - 41:27
And nothing's gonna go perfectly, but that was a really good suggestion. I'm glad you tried it. What do you think for next time? They're all part of the whole deal.

Speaker 1
41:27 - 41:47
And those are the life skills, right? It's not just a skill as a teenager. It's such a great skill. I wanted to before we wrap up, because there's one thing that I think really gets, I don't know, brushed under the rug or not talked about enough, and that is suicide contagion or the copycat.

Speaker 1
41:47 - 41:56
Oh, yeah. So how can parents or schools really rein that kind of risk in? What are we looking for? How do we recognize it?

Speaker 1
41:56 - 42:16
You know, I feel like And then just from experience, it's like we really, I don't know, I feel like, OK, this part's over. They're OK or they're not OK and we're done. And then where, you know, there's this residual effect that I feel like if we're not watching. We need to be careful.

Speaker 1
42:18 - 42:40
Wow, I honestly, I would rather really brainstorm this one with you because I'm not 100 percent sure, I think what you're talking about It seems to be right. I mean, and this goes back to, you know, the discussion that we had before about the seven suicides that we had here in our community. And of course, we've seen that throughout the country and even with school shootings. Right.

Speaker 1
42:40 - 43:00
There seems to be right. Once somebody takes that step and on a positive basis, too. Right. I mean, you can talk about the who was the guy that, like, you know, broke the like the four minute mile and then all of a sudden it was like everybody everybody could do it like it also we got high school school students that are doing it yeah

Speaker 1
43:00 - 43:53
and so there seems to be right this something that it's triggered within us um that when somebody does or goes through on a positive or negative thing that that creates this momentum right and of course you know there are kids that are less vulnerable to that than others. Um, but yeah, well, let me, let me just, maybe let's just put this into the, into our discussion here for a second, because sometimes when schools go through a suicide, right. I think schools are kind of at odds as to what to do, right? How do we do this appropriately, right?

Speaker 1
43:54 - 44:08
How do we do this? Let's figure this out. How do we do this appropriately, honorably, and not somehow feed this potential contagion, right? It's very challenging, right?

Speaker 1
44:08 - 44:31
Yes, yes, because it's almost like you can take on a heroic Right, right, where it's all they're getting celebrated or like we don't you know, and but we want to celebrate Negative or positive. We want to celebrate that person's life We don't want to celebrate what they did. And how do we keep that? So kids who are very vulnerable kind of on that edge.

Speaker 1
44:31 - 45:05
How do we reign them in over to our side? Rather than them going. Oh, look at all the attention they got look at all the from that end, not from, you know, from already having some kind of challenge with their mental health, obviously, that's where it would stem from. But I just, yeah, I just, I think it's something we talk very briefly about in school, keep an eye on, but it's like, oh, I really wanted to just say, even if we're not answering the question, it's just like, let's be aware that this is a thing.

Speaker 1
45:06 - 45:46
and can be a thing, and how do we, yeah, how do we not create shame for what's been done, and not, you know, you know what I'm saying? I think you know exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, I think we're right there. I honestly can't, I feel like I'm walking a high wire act here, like, and I'm kind of just like teeter-tottering, like, There's no way that I would ever want to act in an unkind or disrespectful way towards someone who has gone through with that action.

Speaker 1
45:48 - 46:09
And yet, I definitely don't want to just stay quiet either. where like nobody taught, it's almost like, you know, here's kind of a crappy analogy, but it's, think about it like in Harry Potter, right? Like the Voldemort, right? People won't even say his name, right?

Speaker 1
46:09 - 46:22
He who shall not be named, right? But in the end that just promotes fear, right? Which is, and in fact, there's a part in the movie, like in the big series, right? Where Harry is like, why is everybody so afraid of saying his name?

Speaker 1
46:22 - 46:43
Like it just promotes more fear. And I know we're talking about Harry Potter, we're talking about something different, but I think that there's something to that. And I'm actually, you've almost put me at a little bit of a crossroads because I actually, I don't know. I actually don't know is the answer to that question.

Speaker 1
46:44 - 47:10
I don't know what that line looks like of we love them, we honor them, we miss them. And then maybe there's, We do some education, possibly. I mean, I know these are just ideas. I don't know, but maybe that's the piece in there.

Speaker 1
47:11 - 47:21
We can acknowledge them. We miss them. We care for them. And then maybe there is a talking.

Speaker 1
47:21 - 47:51
And I think that that probably enters into a lot of schools' protocols there. is that they do some form of education. And we have a video like that that we send to schools all the time that is meant to address and talk about that, which then, of course, encourages communication with their loved ones, with their siblings. If you're in this place, if you're having these thoughts, like here are some places that you can go.

Speaker 1
47:54 - 48:09
but that's not, I don't know, man, I don't know. We can say, we can say, I don't know. And that's okay. We just proved our point.

Speaker 1
48:09 - 48:27
And it's not, I'm not laughing because it's a funny topic. It's like, I feel like if, even if we get it out, even if we're saying it now, then if this does happen in your community, you're now thinking about it. And that's all we can do, right? We're just thinking about it.

Speaker 1
48:29 - 48:50
Can I share one more quick thing, Cheryl? When I was, kind of a personal story, but when I was in my When I was doing my master's in social work, we had a student in our cohort. We had kind of a cohort that was spread out through different communities. And then we would kind of meet virtually and in person sometimes.

Speaker 1
48:50 - 49:26
And one of those individuals took their life by suicide. And there was, I remember, shortly after that, We had, I don't know, the school brought on some, probably a psychologist or a couple of therapists or whatever, and they came to almost to kind of do a, it wasn't a debrief, but they almost kind of wanted to come in and do kind of a group, right? And I remember being part of that, right?

Speaker 1
49:26 - 49:58
I mean, it was kind of a mandatory thing, like, hey, we're all gonna meet and we're, I honestly feel like everyone left that more frustrated than they were. And that's because they were unwilling to talk about it. Like they kind of wanted to hear from us, but what the class wanted was answers. but they were unwilling to talk about that.

Speaker 1
49:58 - 50:10
And so I think everybody just, honestly, they were just pissed. They were just upset. Like we just, we just need to like take what happened and like, give it some shape. Can we give it some shape?

Speaker 1
50:11 - 50:53
Can we give it some like, and we all left there feeling like we have no idea what happened. And so I think As schools, because I can only imagine, like as an administrator, as a superintendent, I mean, I actually think we had a very young child in the community that's kind of a neighbor here to us that took their life. They were maybe 11 or 12. And I can only imagine that that administrator is probably thinking to themselves, like, right, what do I do, right?

Speaker 1
50:54 - 51:13
Can I acknowledge? Can I make a statement about this dear student that we loved? Provide maybe some form of right. I don't know, some education.

Speaker 1
51:15 - 51:33
And then, right, is also the, you know, on the other end of that spectrum is the permission to continue. Like, let's continue on, right, which can be very difficult for some as well, right? Yeah, agreed. Wow, what a challenging question, Cheryl.

Speaker 1
51:33 - 51:45
That is a, I'm going to have to figure that out. Yeah, yeah. I actually wonder if there's some decent research about that. I'm sure that somebody has put a little something together, but.

Speaker 1
51:46 - 51:53
Yeah, I'm going to be on that. I'm going to be on that. Yeah, you're on a good one right there. That's a really good one, so.

Speaker 1
51:54 - 52:19
Well, Yuri, this has been again. I feel like we could just talk all day. This has been such a pleasure and and eye opening and you know such a such a topic so challenging to talk about, but we have to, we just have to. And I think a good point is that we are meeting kids where they're at and we're creating a safe space.

Speaker 1
52:19 - 52:42
And even if we get it wrong, it's better to try than to walk away and leave it to somebody else, just try. And again, we can say, we don't know, we can say, I'll get back to you on that. Cause I just messed that up completely. We can do that because, you know, Clearly kids who are even having suicidal ideation are not feeling very perfect.

Speaker 1
52:43 - 52:58
So if we're right beside them saying, oh, I'm not so perfect either. Let's navigate this together. I think that means, I think that means a lot. And the program you're doing, let's talk about real quickly how we can get ahold of you, how we can help with school.

Speaker 1
52:58 - 53:16
Paul, let's do all the good stuff, all the amazing stuff. Yeah, email me if you wanna get to know me. I mean, you can go to schoolpulse.org. You can email me personally at Yuri, and that's spelled I-U-R-I at schoolpulse.org.

Speaker 1
53:18 - 53:39
Yeah, I'm available. I'm sure you'll put that on the show notes there, but I'll add to your statement that you were just making there. Yeah, just for parents, just think, Think relationship first, like think relationship first when you're having those conversations. I know it's fearful.

Speaker 1
53:40 - 53:49
I know it's terrifying, but just start there. That's the base. Think relationship first. And I think your outcomes will be improved.

Speaker 1
53:50 - 54:03
I think your suggestions will come through louder. I think your children will be more willing. I think if we come in and we just want to control and constrict and restrict, I just don't think that that works long-term very well. Agreed.

Speaker 1
54:03 - 54:15
And I'm going to put also resources in the show notes. Yeah. You are worried about something. If you need to get some crisis in there, I'm going to put all of that in the show notes.

Speaker 1
54:15 - 54:31
And Yuri, once again, thank you so much for this really important conversation. Thank you for listening to Parenting Teens Advice Redefined for Today's World. And we will see you next time. Thank you for listening to another episode.

Speaker 1
54:32 - 54:57
I hope you loved this one as much as I did. And I just wanted to share something with you because, you know, parenting teens is not just about managing these challenges that we talk about on all the episodes. It's also about evolving alongside them. And I'm Cheryl and not only the host of this podcast but I'm also the creator of Insight to Impact, coaching and consulting.

Speaker 1
54:58 - 55:18
And I help you moms of teens reconnect with your true selves so you can lead with purpose, you can parent with clarity, you can create stronger more meaningful relationships with your kids. Because here's the truth. The transformation starts with you. Together, we will break free from the stress and overwhelm.

Speaker 1
55:18 - 55:33
We will rediscover your power. We will create the life and the family dynamic you always dreamed of. If you're ready to start this journey, let's do it. You might just not recognize your life in the next 90 days.

Speaker 1
55:34 - 55:41
It all starts with a call. There's no pitch. There's no pressure, just a call to see if I can help. We'll talk about your goals.

Speaker 1
55:41 - 56:02
We'll talk about what's making you feel stuck and what might be getting in your way and everything you need to connect with me is in the show notes. Again, I'm Cheryl. Thank you so much for joining me here on Parenting Teens, advice redefined for today's complex world and the creator of Insight to Impact Coaching and Consulting. Have a great day.