When The Call Hits Home | Episode 5: Brain Insights For High-Stress Lives

Ashlee [00:00:07]:
Welcome back

Jennifer [00:00:07]:
to when the call hits home. I'm Jennifer Woosley Saylor, licensed professional clinical counselor.

Ashlee [00:00:13]:
And I'm Ashlee Gethner, a licensed clinical social worker. And we have a really exciting episode today. So we are gonna bring on our new guest, and this is doctor Hannah Coyt. Pretty big person to have on the show. I'm really excited to have her.

Jennifer [00:00:28]:
Me too. She is amazing, and we're gonna talk some about the brain. And Ashlee and I discussed why it might be important to have an episode like today and discuss the brain, and it's working. And this is not gonna be by any kind of neuroscientist clinical, like, boring textbook, but much more of, like, the function of the brain, the functionality of it, and why it's maybe important to kinda understand some different parts and explore maybe that kinda brain body connection.

Ashlee [00:00:58]:
I think it's super cool because Hannah did a great job of putting it into terms that everyone can understand. You did me. Yeah. It's right. Like, me too. So when we think about the brain, we hear all these different concepts. All these different words can get really confusing, but she does such an excellent job of breaking it down, and that's why I think we're so excited to have her.

Jennifer [00:01:17]:
Yes. And and she has PhD and and has all that clinical Mhmm. Expertise, but, again, can speak in in such a way that I think is really helpful. And we'll get to discuss that more and just its impact. I'm so excited to have Hannah today with us. So, again, welcome to when the call hits home, and, we are graced today with doctor Hannah Coyt. If you could share with us a little bit about what kind of brings you to why the call hit home.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:01:46]:
Thanks, Jennifer. Very excited to be here, Ashlee and Jennifer. Thanks for having me. Actually, got affiliated and interested in the law enforcement community when I married Alio and been married. We've been together 16 years, married for 15, and just started noticing as a mental health provider that there's a whole culture around this community and did not ever realize that beforehand. And just fell in love with with learning more about, you know, being part of the culture myself, you know, in in being married to a a state trooper at the time and just curious about certain aspects as far as, you know, why they don't seek mental health services as often and things like that. And so that led into it just kinda fed into my dissertation topic. And here we are basically, 6 years later and pretty much exclusively working with law enforcement, some firefighters, dispatchers, mostly law enforcement, though, officers and part of PCIS and just absolutely love serving that community.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:02:59]:
So

Jennifer [00:03:00]:
Well, I have seen your awesome work in the community for sure, and I think, especially, I'm glad that you shared that piece about your dissertation and all that research that you've done. And and, Ashlee and I really wanted you here to talk about a little bit of the biology of the brain and kinda understanding that. I think you give a phenomenal presentation about the brain, and so just really wanted to pick your brain about talking about the brain. So just kinda wanted to start with why it's important to have a conversation about the brain, especially if we think about, you know, the concept of a high stress job, like a first responder, and then also parenting. And we'll kinda deep into that a little bit too. But just wanted to start there with kinda why is it important to have a conversation about the brain.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:03:45]:
Sure. I think it's really interesting that in mental health, particularly, that is the that is the organ that we are focusing on, yet, you know, I've been a mental health provider for 25 years, and it's only been in the last 5 to 6 years that that's been a focal point for me. And I think it's just really interesting that we don't pay a lot of attention to that all the time. We are we are basically dealing with symptomology and not so much with why the symptoms are there. And so the the brain is an important piece of that. And when I got trained in EMDR and and I I, you know, had a daughter that had hydrocephalus also, so I got really interested in the brain early on, you know, 23 years ago, 24 years ago. And so I always had an interest in the brain, but as far as, you know, as it applies to mental health, when I got trained in EMDR, there's a lot of pieces are of the brain around that. And you all can't see it, but I I carry a squishy brain in my bag everywhere I go.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:04:49]:
I was on a plane mine right here

Ashlee [00:04:51]:
on my desk. Gonna say I love the squishy brain.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:04:54]:
Yes. That was that was actually Jennifer, that was your inspiration. So many people have gotten the brain talk because you showed me that brain. I was on a plane a couple weeks ago, and somebody was, like, talking. And they were like, well, what what do you do? I get really anxious on a plane, and I was like, wow. Really? And so I'm talking to them, and I pull out my squishy brain. I'm like, let me tell you. They were in love with it.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:05:15]:
They and they were like, oh, shit. I didn't even realize we're almost aware. We're going in. But it's important to understand the biology of the brain, what's happening in the limbic area when trauma happens. You know, the the limbic kinda hijacks our brain, and there's not a lot of, you know, frontal lobe activity happening, it kinda goes offline for the most part. And if we aren't careful, we get stuck in that limbic. And we get stuck in we hear a lot about fight, flight, freeze. It's really way more intricate than that.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:05:49]:
And, essentially, we have brain states. Right? And if we're not careful when we when we have a traumatic event, the limbic, which is where the amygdala lives, will kick in to protect us because that's its job. And the problem is it doesn't know when it doesn't have to protect us anymore. So we want it to work in that moment. Right? We want the autonomic nervous system to to protect us in times when we need that. But if if we don't understand what's happening sometimes and we don't, you know, seek out help for the trauma, we get stuck in that protective mode. And so we can't engage with people. We can't connect with people.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:06:32]:
We can't really develop that frontal lobe part of our brain. I don't know if that was what you were looking for.

Jennifer [00:06:38]:
Yes. It was. And I just wanna say too, I appreciate, especially as a professor that's teaching counselors and future counselors that, you know, it's not necessarily something that we delve into. I I don't know, Ashlee, about your experience and your training. I feel like I had a class here or there that just had kind of this kind of black and white outline of the brain. And I would agree it is something that we talk about. And I don't know. I went to school a long time ago, so I don't think brains were that different back then, but I definitely don't think that we were having as many conversations about what's happening about neurons and and what's happening within the system of the brain.

Jennifer [00:07:17]:
And and I think what you're talk can you maybe kinda explain what the ANS is? The you kinda shared about that.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:07:23]:
Yeah. So the autonomic nervous system is I I call it your ANS for my clients. I talk about that all the time, and there's a really cool video that

Jennifer [00:07:33]:
Which I was hoping we could link that because that is a great video that you shared.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:07:38]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer [00:07:39]:
I'm sorry, Hannah.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:07:40]:
No. No. It's okay. It's it's a great video because it's really easy to understand, but your autonomic nervous system basically kinda kicks in, and it protects us. So in in times when we need protection, it will do that. And we here's the thing. The autonomic nervous system gets dysregulated when it feels like it needs to be protective all of the time. Mhmm.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:08:03]:
And and I think, you know, we do I went to school a long time too, Jennifer, and the most that I got that I can remember about the brain was basically kind of an outline of some of the parts of the brain, and and they talked about mirror neurons all of the time. And while that's true, really, the more in-depth conversation there is the regulation and the coregulation that's happening among people. And so that is the autonomic nervous system essentially scans. If you can kinda think about a scanner, it scans everything that we are, you know, doing. So if we're in a room

Ashlee [00:08:39]:
in the meeting

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:08:40]:
exactly. So if we're in a meeting and it scans the room, it's trying to figure out, is there anything here that's not safe for me? And if so, then, again, those brain state, they may may fight, flight, or freeze, right, depending on that situation. Now that sounds great when it's working well, but when we have a faulty autonomic nervous system because we've had a lot of traumatic experiences, it perceives everything as danger. Like I said earlier, it really can't shift and, you know, know that you're not in danger anymore and it's okay. So it sees everything as a threat. And so it won't even if we wanna connect with people, when our autonomic nervous system is dysregulated, we can't because it it keeps us protected. So even if we want to, it will withdraw to to try to promote that safety.

Jennifer [00:09:36]:
I feel like I see that too with clients sometimes that feeling of, like, for example, a fear. You know? Like, I know I know I shouldn't be afraid of that. I know I'm okay. I know. I know. I know. And that's just not what the amygdala lives in. And, again, that experience with that regulation and your aims or your ANS, like you said, just putting you in that place, it's not necessarily a cognitive thought.

Jennifer [00:10:03]:
Like, we're not thinking it. Is that making sense?

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:10:06]:
It it does. And and that the prefrontal cortex where higher order thinking happens, even if that's kicking in and saying, you don't have to be afraid. You don't have to be afraid. The amygdala that limit it is the fire alarm in your brain. And so I just want you to imagine if fire alarms started going off here in 1 of our homes, and we're trying to talk and I'm saying, Jennifer, it's really okay. Like, you know, Mhmm. Somebody's cooking in it. You can't hear anything else.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:10:32]:
So the the frontal lobe may try to be kicking in and going, I don't know why I'm like, I shouldn't be afraid. There's no reason. But the fire alarm is going to be heard over everything. It drowns everything else out. And so if it is not safe, then it is gonna control everything else because it's just hard to push that idea that you are you are safe. It's really hard to to believe that fully when when that's happening.

Jennifer [00:11:01]:
That is a amazing example because I think you're exactly right. Because it's just just that signal going off.

Ashlee [00:11:08]:
Yeah. Mhmm.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:11:09]:
Yeah. Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:11:10]:
Well, and so I think we're throwing a lot of big terminology, like, terms out there. Right? So not everybody's gonna understand exactly what we're talking about. So I'm gonna ask us to take it a few steps back for 1 second, if you don't mind. And just kind of explain if you can explain, maybe even using your brain, even though people can't really see it, but, like, explain some of those different parts and what they do for everybody. Right? And this a little bit of a non neurosurgeon explanation of the biology of the brain because I do think, right, like, we're so used to jumping into it and talking about it and hearing it.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:11:40]:
But a lot of our listeners may not

Ashlee [00:11:40]:
be as exposed to even the amygdala and the prefrontal and may not be as exposed to

Jennifer [00:11:42]:
even the amygdala

Ashlee [00:11:43]:
and the prefrontal and all of that. So if you wanna

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:11:44]:
give us

Ashlee [00:11:44]:
a little bit of a rundown of each of those sections and what they do, that'd be so helpful.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:11:51]:
Absolutely. And that's a good point. I think there obviously are a lot of pieces within the brain, so we'll focus on 3 primary pieces that really this system has to do with. The the limbic is basically composed of the amygdala and the hippocampus, and the hippocampus is where all of our memory is stored. Other places in the brain too, but kind of at the basic level, like, that holds a lot of the memory. So that's why when people have trauma too, like, they will say, I don't remember that. I I don't remember, you know, this, or I don't remember a whole week around that. And that's absolutely true because when the when the limbic is in panic mode, the hippocampus cannot store that memory.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:12:34]:
And in fact, Daniel Amen, he knee he is wonderful. If anyone's interested in kind of what I'm talking about, Daniel Amen is fantastic. He's done a lot of work with brain scans. They're called spec scans, and they can actually they have some that actually show that people who've been through a lot of trauma, that hippocampus actually shrinks. And so it's not as full as it would be if someone wasn't exposed to that all the time. So the capacity for memory and being able to remember events around the trauma, but even sometimes just where are my keys? Oh, was I supposed to pick up that child? It's you know, your brain can't hold all of that. Right? So that's kind of and and we think that being in the hindbrain kind of at the back part of our brain, but it's not the amygdala is down there. That area is kinda down there next to the brain stem, and and the vagus nerve kinda comes off from that.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:13:29]:
But, honestly, the hippocampus, if you're looking at it, it's really not right there next to it, but they all work together and it's all in the hindbrain. And then the the midbrain is is kind of just the, again, it does a lot more of it for what we're talking about here. If you think about that midsection there, it's just kind of the connecting piece up to that frontal lobe. And the frontal lobe is really where all higher order thinking happens. So all cognitive. So when we learn something and you you've probably looked at a brain before and you see all these squiggly lines and, you know, it's supposed to be the more, more squiggle lines we have, the smarter we are. Those are those are neural pathways. And so the more that we have of that, the better we are to make decisions for the next experience that we have.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:14:17]:
And so what happens there too is when that frontal lobe goes offline, we aren't making great decisions. We're making decisions out of limbic. And then so the next experience that we have, people I hear people say all the time, gosh. I should have known better because I don't. You didn't, though. Because it didn't connect to that frontal lobe, and that was not something that was like a a synapse, which is kinda like the electricity, if you will, between neurons. It doesn't happen correctly when the amygdala is in charge. I don't know, Ashlee, if that breaks down and kind of yep.

Jennifer [00:14:50]:
Oh, Hannah. That was totally perfect to kind of explain that. You know? And I appreciate you kinda giving these examples of, oh, you know, I should've known better. And, again, that idea of, you know, I know I shouldn't. When we think about knowing about the brain and brain development as a parent, because you're a parent, you know, this can be for people that are in high stress jobs raising kids. So can you talk a little bit about maybe what would be good as a parent to know about the development of the brain?

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:15:21]:
Yeah. I think the most important thing, and I remind I have 7 children, so I remind myself

Jennifer [00:15:26]:
I wasn't gonna say it, so I'm glad you did.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:15:30]:
Yes. I remind myself of this daily, you know, brain development, full brain development. And so we're talking about really that higher order thinking part of our brain does not fully develop, depending on what research study you read, between 23 25 years old. And so the and there's a lot of other pieces kind of around that. If you have trauma, it certainly stumps that development, and that's so that's why you see people always just kind of equated that to being like I know you all may or may not remember, like, the psychosocial stages where Freud, you know, like trust versus mistrust.

Ashlee [00:16:04]:
What do you mean? I don't remember that. I live in that universe.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:16:09]:
How can you not? Right? But the the it's really about brain development. And so that's why people get stuck in those stages is because the development doesn't happen the way that it needs to, and they get they get stuck in that. And so you'll have someone who's 35, and you're looking at them like that's something a 17 year old would do. Like, what are you doing? And it's because that development has gotten stunted somewhere along the trauma line there. And and, honestly, most people that don't even report that they have trauma, when you start digging in a little bit around that time, you're like, oh, mhmm. Yep. That's exactly what's happening. So for for parents, understanding that when you ask them what were you thinking, they probably were not because that part of the brain is not completely developed.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:17:03]:
Now that's not to say that we don't promote that and want them to do different things and try to my my kid's favorite word, teaching moments, but they they aren't going to. Even if they cognitively know it, like, they may know what you've told them, but they're they're not able to reason like we are when when our brain is fully developed. So I don't know if that answers your question.

Jennifer [00:17:28]:
I think that it definitely answers the question. And I think it's you know, sometimes with parenting, it's about, you know, expectation. And, again, what's the are some expectation that maybe, hey. That's not where our kids developed at. That doesn't mean that we don't have expectations for our kids, but understanding some of the development, especially with their brain, is helpful. No.

Ashlee [00:17:57]:
It is. Important for us to all talk about that because I know in some other episodes prior to this 1, something Jennifer and I have talked about in terms of being a child of a first responder is these this notion of wanting us to do more even as kids. Right? I call them unrealistic expectations. Everyone's gonna be like, Ashlee, we're so sick of hearing it, but that's how I feel. Right? Like, they kinda hold us to a very high standard as kids, or that's how it was for me as my experiences with child of a first responder. But I think that's so important for

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:18:27]:
anyone listening to recognize

Ashlee [00:18:27]:
that sometimes as kids, we just actually don't have that capacity. Listening to recognize that sometimes as kids, we just actually don't have that capacity quite yet.

Jennifer [00:18:34]:
You know, I agree with that. And that's definitely an experience that I had as well that there were some standards that maybe weren't really matching where I was at developmentally. And I'll share a little bit from an experience working with a family, and the parent had an expectation for a kiddo to be grateful for something. And this kid just was not in their development timeline to really understand gratitude. And this adult was wanting just gratitude to just show up in this kiddo, you know, their their kid, and they had a lot of things to be grateful for that wasn't untrue. It just like, that's just not gonna be induced by a child at that age. And that doesn't mean that we don't coach it, encourage it, all those things. But as an adult, if you're having that expectation for a kiddo, you're gonna be mad being pretty disappointed.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:19:31]:
Well and, Jennifer, that's a good point because, honestly, that is in frontal lobe. Gratitude and moral you know, the moral compass, morality, and empathy, and all those things, they are in the frontal lobe. They are they are not located in limbic. So that's an excellent point that they're not gonna have that. Again, it's not that we don't wanna encourage it, but it's not developed yet. And so when we are expecting that and the higher expectations that we have, the more room for disappointment, right, for the kid to then it stunts that development because then they have this self loathing situation, and that's where they get stuck. The Eric and stages that I was talking about earlier, the psychosocial stages, that's where that kinda comes in. They get stuck in that not being able to trust themselves and not feeling like they can trust people around them and not feeling like they having this inferiority around that.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:20:27]:
That's all brain stuff. That's all brain stuff. Well, and I've always joked and I've done this with parents, and I probably will have my own karma of this, but I was in my twenties when

Jennifer [00:20:36]:
I finally went to my parents and was like, thank you for teaching me to load a dishwasher. Like, I was working in a group home and working with adolescents, and, like, they just didn't have the concept of that. And it's something I totally took for granted. Like, oh, wow. Like, I'm really appreciative. Again, I was in my twenties when at that realization. I mean, I'm sure my parents wish that that happened a lot sooner for me, but it did come around eventually. So

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:21:02]:
Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:21:03]:
Yeah. And I think, Hannah, I think you made a great point too to that the extent of which, like, I think parents can also get frustrated really easily at their children. But if they know these things, and like you said, you have to remind yourself Mhmm. Of that daily, it's something that I think is really helpful for them. But as we talk about what it's like for parents and children and their brain development, how can this also be impacted by high stress jobs such as first responders?

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:21:31]:
Yeah. That's an that's an excellent question, Ashlee. I I was just thinking that when you marry a a child that doesn't have that brain development yet and, you know, child that doesn't have that brain development yet and a first responder that's working in a high stress job and that part of the brain is offline, it is a recipe for disaster many, many times because, you know, that first responder doesn't realize that they're kind of acting out a limbic 2. They've gone on call after call after call after call. Right? And so when they come home, it's not just, okay. You're home, so we don't have to do that anymore. I know my own kids, they didn't tell him, but they would kind of, like, come to me and be like, mom, like, we're not we're we're we aren't suspects. We're we're not you know? And I'm like, you're absolutely right.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:22:18]:
And and my husband didn't mean for them to feel that way, but it was just more of he was in limbic, they were still in limbic. And those 2 things showing up at the same table, that's probably gonna be a high conflict situation. And so I would have to remind them, dad needs some downtime, and I would have to remind dad, like, their brain's not fully developed. And I I can promise you this situation's probably not gonna go well. And so, I don't know how a lot of spouses feel, but being a mental health provider, I felt like I was mediating a lot, you know, early on. And then, you know, until my husband kind of figured that out and got that education and about what was happening. And we had to do some things like, what do you need when you come home? Like, do you need to take off the uniform and get a shower? Do you need to go up to your chair and set for 45 minutes and decompress, but there's gotta be a switch off. You can't come in in high gear, right, and expect to engage because your brain's not ready to engage.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:23:20]:
Your brain is still ready to fight flight or, you know, completely free, like the dorsal piece. And, so the the other piece to that, and I hear spouses talk about that too, is that they may not come in in that way, but they may come in completely disengaged. And so and kids also really kind of take that on as well. Like, what's wrong? Like, why isn't my parent engaging with me, and what did I do? Are they mad? That kind of thing. And those pieces, even though we don't think about it, because they're developing, their brain is developing, that kind of connects for them that maybe there's something. Again, it goes back to that, what did I do wrong? Why am I not good enough? Or, I mean, it it shows up different for everybody, but but those things

Jennifer [00:24:08]:
are prominent. Oh, absolutely. And I appreciate you sharing that. And I think as much as, like, the brain's not developed in our kiddos, it is developing. Right? And it's paying attention to what's around it and noticing. And you're exactly right. If we come in kind of not in a regulated state, no matter what it is, our kid's gonna pick up on that. You know, they really are sponges.

Jennifer [00:24:31]:
And so I think it's great to hear, like, hey. What do you need in a part of a transition? And I guess to kinda talk a little bit, because I think solutions are awesome or, you know, looking at things from a lens of, like, what can be done. Do you have kinda what are some healthy practices to kinda help with some of this function? Like, I think what you kind of said you do in your own family is helpful, but anything else that you think would be helpful for people to know?

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:24:57]:
Well, I really am a fan, as you all know, of trauma informed treatment. And I feel like I mean, EMDR is kind of my preference, but also I marry that a lot with polyvagal, the polyvagal theory. And what I like about polyvagal is that there's a lot of practices that folks can learn and do on their own, and so they can do them in between sessions. Whereas the MDR, that's not so much the case. You've gotta be, you know, in the room, but there is a book and let me see if I, okay. I carry a brain and this book, so you know that I'm totally a nerd. But it's Polyvagal Exercises for Safety and Connection, and it was written by Deb Dana. And so 1 of the things that I use with a lot of my first responders is we will kinda go through and pick some of these and, like, ones that we can I will do with them 1st in the office, but ones that they practice and they love it, and they come back and they taught their kids? I had a firefighter that I did some of this work with, and he was just having a real high, like, a volatile relationship with his preteen.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:26:02]:
I think he was 12. We all know how fun that can be. And so he got regulated, and then he started instead of, like, being upset and getting activated, he was feeling that in himself, and then he was teaching his kids. So he'd come back, and, actually, he's been discharged. He's done really well, but he before we ended, he was teaching his wife. He was teaching his kids all of these regulating activities. And I was like, that is amazing because that's that's kinda what we have to do. And and I think I also think it helps if the parents are able to not just tell the kids to do it because that's what we do.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:26:40]:
Let's do time out. Let's break but let's do that together. Let's do that together because I might be a little out of sorts too, so let's breathe together. And it makes them feel like there's that connection piece. And, again, we're promoting coregulation. We're promoting that positive brain development, and it's honestly, in my opinion, the best way to do it. And I also feel like in counseling, it shouldn't be just the kid that you're sending to counseling. What can we do as a family, like, as a unit? It's systemic.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:27:11]:
Right? And so having that conversation around, what is it that I can do? How can we sit through this? And I've literally had parents with kids sitting in my office, you know, first responders and their kids, and just they're doing some of these breathing exercises or they're do and then it becomes their thing. It's really cool. It's really cool.

Jennifer [00:27:31]:
It's incredible, and I think you're right in terms of making that a family because what a lesson to have for our kids and what a gift really is the development comes along. I think that's beautiful.

Ashlee [00:27:43]:
And the connection that I think can be made by just doing that with your children. Right? Like, you open stores maybe to even more conversation and things like that happening. I think it grows a deeper connection if you're willing to show them that you're also putting in the effort and wanting to figure it out together. I really like that idea.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:27:58]:
I will also say and then I know we're probably coming to the end of our time here, but I will also say that another really good way to regulate is nature. And so if you can just take a walk with your kids, you know, get the dog, or if you don't have a dog, just walk on your own. Go outside. What do you notice over here? What do you notice over here? My kids don't always wanna go outside. We are in a in a a culture right now where devices, phones, and computers, and games, and all that kind of thing is the thing, but that's really not great for our brain, and that's a whole another podcast. But it they're really it's really not great for our brain at all. And so nature is phenomenal. And, again, what Ashlee just said, if we're doing it together, it's a bonding piece that's happening.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:28:43]:
We're regulating our own nervous systems and we're together, so we're co regulating. And even if it's just walking down by a lake, we have a little a little man made lake at 1 of the parks here where I live, and they have ducks that are really mean. But but my kids yeah. But my kids love going down, and we all go down there and we laugh because the ducks usually chase 1 or more of my kids. But that's been a huge like, my kids, when they talk about things that they enjoy, like, what was great about this week, it's almost always that. It's not really even something that cost anything. Right? It's just being there. So I think that's another important piece to think about.

Jennifer [00:29:20]:
I think that's beautiful. I thought you're gonna say buy a horse, but, yeah, that's beautiful.

Ashlee [00:29:25]:
Oh, yeah. That 1 too.

Jennifer [00:29:27]:
So, yeah, we were just kinda talking a little bit and just to wrap this up here in a second. But again, that idea of healthy practices and the function of the brain. And we were kinda just talking a little bit about every kind of family has a different way and a different kind of priorities and different kind of things. Is there anything that you kind of encourage to kind of explore that and, again, this kind of idea of regulation? And

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:29:56]:
Yeah. I think I understand the question. It's more of I kinda start with, again, what have you done already? Usually, there's at least 1 or 2 things that well, we really get along when we're doing this or that. And so I'll go off of that and say, well, I wonder what's happening there. Do you remember what it feels like in your body when you're in that? And, of course, that's some people's least favorite question because we wanna disconnect. We wanna disassociate. That's another thing that we often do. When the amygdala is screaming at us all day, like, we've gotta turn the fire alarm off, so we disassociate.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:30:33]:
It's not on purpose. Right? It just our brain can only handle so much before it just disengages. And so I'll say, like, what what were you feeling in your body? What did you notice? And if that's a good practice, like, can we do more of that? So a lot of times, again, people get out more in the summertime, obviously, with family. You've got breaks and things like that. But what about end times that it's winter or you can't get out? Like, what do you all do? Is there something you do in the house? My family loves board games. I do not love board games. Okay? Just throwing that out there. But they love board games, and they're regulated in there.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:31:10]:
So I will say, and then I will have my my, 18 year old and my husband tell me how to move because when I get when it gets to be my turn, I have no idea what I'm doing in those board games because they're real elaborate board games that they love, but it's more about the connection piece. And so I think and I hope that I answered your your question, Jennifer. But I think when it comes to that, asking them to think about a time that they did feel connected and that it didn't feel difficult or it didn't feel rushed or, you know, their their body really felt regulated. And the best probably the best description of that I've ever heard is I don't really feel anything right now. And they're like, I don't feel that, like, my heart's not right. Like, I can breathe. And and and they sometimes think there's something wrong because they've never been fully regulated.

Jennifer [00:32:09]:
That That was beautifully said, and I didn't give you the best hand off as a question. So I appreciate you really taking that torch and and and explaining it beautifully. And I think that's right. A place to start is just like, what is going well? What is working for us? Where are we laughing and playing? And that it doesn't have to be this big mindful thing of, I need to make a list on how I'm gonna regulate with my family, and it's gonna be our priority. It is just looking for those moments that we're finding some joy. And I really appreciate you talking about when we really detach from ourself, that sometimes it's just easier to just shut it all off. And really what this ultimately is about is just kinda being a whole person. Right? Like, that our brain is online with our body.

Jennifer [00:32:50]:
And, yeah, and

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:32:52]:
all of that for our

Jennifer [00:32:53]:
families and for our kiddos and all of those things. So that was a beautiful way to answer that question that I I flubbed for you.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:33:01]:
No. Thank you. Thank you.

Ashlee [00:33:03]:
Yeah. I think it's safe to say that she's gonna have to come back on. I agree. We're gonna have to do more of this because I think we just kind of we you know, we're only on the surface right now. I think there's a lot more that can be said. Right?

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:33:16]:
There's a lot more. Just just give me started talking about the vagus nerve, and that's a whole

Ashlee [00:33:22]:
nightmare. Yeah. I wrote a whole list while we've been talking. So don't worry, everybody. Doctor Coyt will be back. There's several episodes coming, you know. Well, thank you for coming on and and giving us your time and your knowledge. It really is unmatched.

Ashlee [00:33:37]:
You are incredible, and we are blessed

Jennifer [00:33:39]:
to have that. And I just think I appreciate, Hannah, your ability to kinda share your knowledge And, again, you know, you're a parent of 7 kids. You work or or in a first responder family and just having all this information. I appreciate you even sharing your own experiences. That takes a lot of courage. So thank you for that, Hannah. I really do appreciate it.

Dr. Hannah Coyt [00:34:00]:
Thank you guys for having me on. I feel feel very honored to be on this podcast. I'm excited about it.

Jennifer [00:34:06]:
Very VIP. We don't just let anybody on here.

Ashlee [00:34:12]:
Alrighty. Well, we will talk to you later. What a special episode. I mean, she did incredible. I think my brain is so blown away right now.

Jennifer [00:34:22]:
She is amazing. And I think, again, just kinda speaking to all those things so beautifully and in such a way that, I I don't know, that's, I think, so understandable and practical as a parent as well. It's amazing.

Ashlee [00:34:34]:
And she really well, all of us together. Right? We do plan to have more deep discussions about these Oh, about the brain things. Yep.

Jennifer [00:34:44]:
Well, we just hit, like, the tip of the iceberg. I think there's so much. I feel like each 1 of the things that she was kinda sharing is like, oh, and we could talk about this, and we could talk about this, and we could talk about this. It's all part of it for sure. So we are just really getting started on this, you know, the biology of the brain and kinda understanding

Ashlee [00:35:00]:
how it impacts our first responders and us as children of first responders. And and I think it's kinda endless information that we all need. What we do wanna say, though, is that all the resources she has talked about within the episode will be available to you guys via probably our social medias and our website, though. So on our website, it's really important that you go on there. There is a resource tab. Yes. So anytime you maybe don't see it on our socials, please go to our website, hit that resource tab, and the information's gonna be there for you. So whatever she said today, we will make sure to get that up and loaded for all of you to see.

Jennifer [00:35:38]:
Absolutely. If you need it. And I saw that video that she shared for the first time, and and it was so helpful. And I pass it on to my a lot of my clients. So please, like, check that out for sure. And our website will always be linked through our social media. So if that's where you start, you'll always be able to find that in our resource page on our website.

Ashlee [00:35:57]:
Awesome. Well, this was a wrap up of episode 5 already, which is kind of insane to think about, but the level before loyal. I know has been endless, and it is quite amazing. It's so we're so thankful to be on this journey, And we just want you guys to always remember that when the call hits home, Jennifer and I are going to be here for you. Thank you.