When The Call Hits Home | Episode 12: Navigating Parenting, Social Media, and First Responder Families

Jennifer [00:00:07]:
Hi. I'm Jennifer Woosley Saylor. I'm a licensed professional clinical counselor and the kid of a cop. And this is the podcast when the call hits home.

Ashlee [00:00:16]:
Hey, everyone. It's Ashlee Gethner. I'm a licensed clinical social worker, and I'm also a child of a police officer.

Jennifer [00:00:23]:
Alright. Well, I think it's exciting that it's just you and I today, Ashlee.

Ashlee [00:00:27]:
Been a long time.

Jennifer [00:00:28]:
I know it has, but I do wanna thank all our guests. We've had some incredible guests, and the most important thing that they gave us was their time. But more than that, they shared some incredible stories. So I'm really just grateful for all of them.

Ashlee [00:00:43]:
I really couldn't agree more. I feel like we've learned so much.

Jennifer [00:00:46]:
Yes. Exactly. And, especially, I think, having the experience with firefighters and kids of firefighters and people that are dispatchers and paramedic. We do need some paramedic kiddos. So if you're out there and you're a paramedic kid, we want you on the podcast. Yeah.

Ashlee [00:01:03]:
Yeah. Absolutely. We do. And one thing I would like to say is just again, I know we make these little videos on social media, and we're so thankful, and and we are. But it's still just very incredible. I mean, we're over 7,000 followers now. We've had all these listeners. Ways.

Ashlee [00:01:20]:
I mean and and I don't know, Jennifer, about you, but, like, these messages we get.

Jennifer [00:01:25]:
Oh, yes.

Ashlee [00:01:26]:
They are life. Like, it refuels me, tells me what we're doing is such a good thing, and so many people are connecting. So I'm excited. I mean

Jennifer [00:01:34]:
Yeah. I appreciate that. Somebody stopped me and asked me, like, where we're at with followers, and I was just like, I I feel so silly that I keep saying thank you, but it's grown so, so, so much. So to our listeners, we're very appreciative of you and all the support that you've given us.

Ashlee [00:01:51]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So one of the things that Jennifer and I discussed well, we always discuss, which I think is really cool. So this helps us. Like, not only do we meet new people, do we have these episodes, but then you and I are always processing together afterwards.

Jennifer [00:02:06]:
Yeah. We are in a lot of dialogue. Yeah. Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:02:10]:
And and this last one. So Caitlin opened a lot Mhmm. Which was incredible. It needed to happen. I think she she really took us to a place that, you know, is a a big portion of this right now, so we we can't turn our heads to that. And it and it was powerful, but then it led to us talking and discovering some differences and some things that we thought we should bring to the forefront today and have a discussion on.

Jennifer [00:02:32]:
Well, can I start with that a little bit? Because I think I did bring to you because Caitlin was an incredible guest, and I was so appreciative of what she brought and her experiences. And it made me reflect a little bit after we were done recording. And I was like, man, I don't necessarily know that I experienced the same thing that you and Caitlin were talking about in terms of I don't know how to put it. I guess, the the feedback maybe you were getting from your peers or things like that. And I recognized, like, wow. I didn't really I didn't necessarily have that experience. And in reflecting in that, I was like, what's that about? And some of it, I think, I recognize, which kinda bums me out, is that I'm a little bit older.

Ashlee [00:03:20]:
Oh, stop it. Stop it.

Jennifer [00:03:22]:
I'm from the late 1900. And

Ashlee [00:03:27]:
I don't know. You know, my brain just went to, like, every, like, Halloween type.

Jennifer [00:03:34]:
Right? Yeah. But I think that there was something, I think that my dad wore his uniform and came to career day, and, obviously, my friends and classmates knew about my dad as a police officer. So I didn't necessarily like, I never got anything really harsh or bad other than, like, oh, all they're doing is writing speeding tickets. And I think I maybe shared on that episode about a friend that was so upset because somebody was angry that they got a speeding ticket. So I won't really tell that story. But and so I yeah. I think it was a little bit about where we were in time in terms of our experiences.

Ashlee [00:04:17]:
Yeah. I would agree with that. And I have to agree too in in terms of, like so I I do feel this shift generationally and things like that. And I I also think it's kinda where you're from. Like, you grew up in a bigger city

Jennifer [00:04:31]:
Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:04:31]:
Bigger city environment. I grew up in a very small small town of Kamsinckorn. So, like but I didn't. I agree with you in that. At least with school, I don't remember really having anyone press me, I guess, about my dad being an officer. I would get, like, jokes here and there, you know, where, like, just like, oh, don't don't tell your dad, like, you know, things like stupid like that where you're like, I never got, like, anything incredibly, like, scary or intense, but it I think for me, like, that hit more towards my when I was in college Right. And then, like, my master's program and stuff that

Jennifer [00:05:08]:
I have talked about before.

Ashlee [00:05:09]:
So I do agree with you on that too. It's just I just wonder if there's so much of this location being a big factor of it as well.

Jennifer [00:05:17]:
I even consider that. You know? I just because you're always in your bears' gear. You're from Chicago.

Ashlee [00:05:25]:
This is actually a new bear sweater, everybody. So this is bear sweater 1,000,000 that I did not need that I just got. Yeah.

Jennifer [00:05:31]:
That's cute. I'm not gonna reference my shirt till later. So I think that I was in a, you know, a more urban setting for sure. I didn't think about that in terms of where you grow up and

Ashlee [00:05:44]:
I guess a question that I have for you, Jennifer, if you don't mind me asking, is, like, how did so where was your dad at? So, like, the biggest and I know we've talked about this, but the biggest event like, the, I guess, the first. Let's put that there. Not first of my realization, let me make that clear too, of things happening was Ferguson, I believe.

Jennifer [00:06:07]:
Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:06:08]:
Where was your dad at career wise when that unfolded?

Jennifer [00:06:12]:
Oh, he was retired back then. Mhmm. Okay. So my dad had his career in Louisville Louisville Police Department that then turned into Louisville Metro because the city and the county merged, and he was on he kinda jokes he was on to get some of those county benefits because when they merged, you know, he wanted some of those county benefits. But I think he was only on for a little bit longer, and then which I do think this was probably a a great benefit to him in his career. But he, I guess, was recruited to do oh gosh. There's a much more diplomatic way to say this, but policing overseas where you're contracted and you're helping places that need police support to kind of help with police departments kinda getting off the ground or security forces getting out of the ground. And so he had an opportunity in Liberia, Africa, and so he was there for a year.

Jennifer [00:07:19]:
And then he had an opportunity and was in, pristine Kosovo. And with that, he worked with the UN quite a bit. I don't have his resume. So he

Ashlee [00:07:29]:
I want that resume. My goodness.

Jennifer [00:07:32]:
And then I think, obviously, was in the Middle East for a little bit as well. So I all of that, I think he was back stateside when all that happened with Ferguson, but he was not, by any means, active in the police department.

Ashlee [00:07:46]:
And I think that that's where me and Caitlin probably aligned on that stuff. Right? And that's something that I know we talked about wanting to bring up today. So I'm gonna share this is so embarrassing. Oh. It is now when I look back on it. Right? But, also, I'm glad I have these memories. I I'm glad I have these things to to remember and and to hopefully help others. But after Ferguson happened, there was a trickle down effect.

Ashlee [00:08:09]:
We see this a lot now, especially with research and things with police officers kind of being more targeted, So more targeted attacks. And I believe now I'm gonna mix it up. So if someone's gonna fact check me, you know, I'm gonna get an answer message, but it's okay. I believe it was either Louisiana or Texas that after Ferguson happened, there was a targeted attack on police officers where I think about 4 officers or 5 officers were shot and killed. And I was I was driving to school, and the radio the radio was talking about it. And they, you know, were like, if oh, I have gooseies. I have the goosebumps. If you are a child of a first responder or are a first responder, like, we would love to hear from you, like, call in.

Ashlee [00:08:57]:
And I was I was so hesitant, but I just remember being so overcome with emotion. Mhmm. Because that was my greatest fear at that time. Right? Like, again, I don't know if it was just this reality sinking in where I was old enough to recognize. Now, obviously, I know now that that could've happened to my dad at any point in time in his career, but everything was so heightened. Right. And and something that I know we wanna dive into here is that I didn't I didn't escape it. Right? So, like, I heard it on the news.

Ashlee [00:09:26]:
I heard it on the radio, but at this time in life, social media is huge. Mhmm. So all I'm seeing is these things on social media as well. So as, like, gosh, I mean, a teen going into adulthood, like, my anxiety was super ramped up. But I ended up calling into this radio station, and I cried.

Jennifer [00:09:47]:
Oh, god. I hope nobody has that. Like, I hope that's not

Ashlee [00:09:50]:
on air because I was just trying to get like, I just wanted them so badly to understand that, like, not all of them are like that. Right? Or, like, you how personal it was for me to feel that, like, now my dad is going through this or I could lose my dad at any minute and and what have you. So, like, that time was just so crucial, I think, for a lot of us. And I think that's where Caitlin was coming from as well of just you have, like, all of a sudden, the world kinda caved in a little bit.

Jennifer [00:10:18]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:10:19]:
Right. Were like, what? And and my I have Facebook statuses that oh, again, memories that you cringe. You're like, oh, can we just you know? I don't necessarily cringe so bad at at those ones, but just it when I read them, it just reminds me of, like, how desperate I was in that time to just be like, can everyone just, like, see my dad for who he is and not the uniform that he's wearing? Right. But I think that that's the biggest part of that was just it never stopped. So it was the social media aspect of it that really, oh, like, got me in a tailspin of just anxiety, of pure anxiety. And I I think that that's even escalated more so now

Jennifer [00:11:03]:
Oh, totally.

Ashlee [00:11:04]:
And then even when I was you know, like, back then when I was in my master's program and things like that. So I don't know what your thoughts are on the social media realm of things, but I do think that that's something we have to talk about because I don't know that these kids are getting a break from seeing it. And not just kids, I guess. Right? Like

Jennifer [00:11:22]:
No. Yeah.

Ashlee [00:11:23]:
All family members, spouses trying to check on their loved one who is an officer or, you know, even fire fire anybody who's on scene. Like, it's so much more accessible now to, like, watch it live

Jennifer [00:11:34]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:11:35]:
Which is, oof, a whole different world.

Jennifer [00:11:37]:
Oh, a very different world. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting, and and I appreciate you sharing that experience, Ashlee. And and just to be very transparent, like, I obviously knew what was going on. And I remember being in discussions in different places about that, and it it just didn't hit as hard. And I think it's exactly right. I don't I didn't have somebody that was in a uniform that was in, you know, my family at that time. And, obviously, I cared about people that were showing up and having those experiences, but it wasn't so, like, in front of my face.

Jennifer [00:12:13]:
Yeah. So we'll talk about an experience that I have again in the late 1900 where and I think it's just it's such a smaller version of what we're talking about here. But, my dad was in homicide for a while. And I was in middle school. And with my dad being on homicide, he was sometimes on the news because of different things. And I had a classmate tell me, like, oh, I saw your dad on the news. I didn't think anything of it. Like, okay.

Jennifer [00:12:46]:
Like, he'd been on there before. Well, it was a pretty slow news week, and there were some accusations that was on every I mean, I think there's 3, like, local news when I was growing up. And it was on every station, like, covered these accusations towards my dad. It was very upsetting for my family. I remember my there was, like, a voice mail from my grandmother on her answering machine, if you remember what those are. So upset because she had seen the news. And, unfortunately, it was just a false accusation. But because there was not a lot going on, like, you know, it was the headline in this, you know, a city, but, like, you know, our community.

Jennifer [00:13:34]:
And I I mean, I think my dad would have to answer if that impacted his career or not. But of the 3 stations, you know, only one station finally came back and, you know, retracted the story and interviewed my dad. And it was just a really hard thing. And, you know, I think I felt a little like I mean, again, I was somewhat insulated from it because I don't have a phone. You know, like, it was more of, like, this thing that my parents were going through. And I remember I remember it upset me or my dad, but then it, like, upset me from my grandparents and, you know, that they were worried about him. And it's interesting because I think I had that experience so young that I've always been a bit of a questioner about media and what information is given to me. And for better or worse, I mean, that's, I don't know, that's not always the best thing to always be questioning information you're given.

Jennifer [00:14:36]:
Obviously, now we're given so much information. It's probably helpful for me to question some. And so I think back to that experience, and it was hard. And I know it was extremely stressful for, again, my parents navigating that. And, again, I think my dad would have to speak to, like, the impact that it had on his career. And I think, you know, this is what I say a lot of times, you know, when I present and stuff is, like, if I can have this experience and this impact in that time exactly what you're saying. Like, think of kids today and how much information they're being bombarded with, and how do we, like, protect our kids against that?

Ashlee [00:15:20]:
Well and they yeah. What a powerful story, first off. And, you know, thank you for sharing that with everybody. I had no idea, so you're hiding

Jennifer [00:15:28]:
things. The

Ashlee [00:15:29]:
I It's

Jennifer [00:15:30]:
not something I'm like Yeah. You

Ashlee [00:15:32]:
gotta pull it out. Right? That's okay. But what I think stands out to me so much from that, though, is, like you said, like, that trickle down effect.

Jennifer [00:15:41]:
Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:15:41]:
It wasn't just your

Jennifer [00:15:43]:
dad. Right.

Ashlee [00:15:44]:
It was your grandparents. Right? Like, it's your mom. It's everybody. This there's this huge trickle down effect, and I think we do have to be more mindful of that. We forget. Everybody does. And don't get me wrong. Again, this is no way everybody is warranted to their feelings, their emotions with what happens and what goes on.

Ashlee [00:16:03]:
That I you know? Like, I wanna make that clear. It's just that I think that as humans, when that emotional side of the brain takes over, we don't even want to stop and recognize that there's so much more to that person behind the batch than

Jennifer [00:16:16]:
the batch.

Ashlee [00:16:18]:
Right? And so you made that point very clear. And with your story. And and I found that to be true within my dissertation as well. Right? Like, my dissertation, most of my research and my findings are connected back to the families more than it is themselves.

Jennifer [00:16:36]:
Yep.

Ashlee [00:16:36]:
It's insane. And how do we protect our kids? Well, the sad thing is almost every single officer I interviewed in fact, I would have to you know, after you do a dissertation, you, like, close it, and you're like, never ever ever. Again, so, like, maybe I should go back and read my own work. But, hey, one of the things that I do remember is that almost all of them, if not all of them, have said that they have removed any notion of being like a police officer almost from their lives completely. Their children are told to say that they're, you know, community workers or something completely different than what they are. Mhmm. The blue line stuff is a deal, like a big thing. However, almost every officer, like I said, that I interviewed had said they told to like, their children are not allowed to wear it.

Ashlee [00:17:27]:
They took down their blue line flags. They you know, all these things.

Jennifer [00:17:31]:
Yeah.

Ashlee [00:17:32]:
And I guess that's how we're protecting our children from it. But on the other hand of that and which I know kids are very resilient. But on the other hand of that too, I struggle with, so then how do we how do we have these men and women out here doing this career, doing this job, not even willing to say that it's what they like, I can't fathom in my head not being proud of what you do. Right? And and be you know, like and I I don't wanna say that they're not proud, but to have to hide that, I don't I can't comprehend it because I'm not in that position. Like

Jennifer [00:18:04]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:18:04]:
But I do I did the same thing. So I had this little blue line heart sticker on my car. When that happened, I was so anxious I took it off. But then you're like, as my dad's daughter, I was like, am I turning my back on him? I'm not. I don't want that's not what I'm doing, but I'm fearful.

Jennifer [00:18:19]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:18:20]:
I would love for no one to know what my dad does anyway. Right? Like and so I don't know. I can't fathom that. But just to that almost a 100%, if not a 100% of my participants said that, I was like, wow. If that's all we can do to protect our families, I guess. Right? But I don't know that I have a better solution right now either.

Jennifer [00:18:41]:
Yeah. I think that is really hard to navigate. And, you know, and I think every family, what they decide to do is probably what works best for their family.

Ashlee [00:18:51]:
Yeah.

Jennifer [00:18:51]:
But I also think about that in terms of, you know, growing up and being really proud of what my dad did. And I think that it influenced what I wanted to be when I grew up. I didn't necessarily ever wanna be a police officer, but I definitely wanted to do something that made a difference. Yeah. And I think you're saying that. Like, why would you be embarrassed about a job that makes a difference in your community? Yeah. I mean, I hear what you're saying when it comes to that.

Ashlee [00:19:20]:
Well, and just that moral part. Right? Like, our morals and our values of just I can't imagine having to be like, this is something I love so much, or or we do really have some of our first responders who are so passionate. Right? Like, this is all they wanted to be when they were that little kid. Right? Like Right. And they're doing it. And now all of a sudden, you have to kinda navigate this feeling of like, okay. I wanna be super proud, and I wanna do the best. And and yet I have to be so careful of everything I do and say and act in that.

Ashlee [00:19:50]:
I think there's just such conflict, like, that they might feel from these careers again. So and and that's okay if I am. I

Jennifer [00:20:00]:
let's see. I might be able to pull out a thread here and and hang on tight because I think there might be a connection. But I think in terms of that, wanting to do the right thing, the value system, and and then thinking about, oh gosh. I I always have to be that. I can never be a human being. Like, I just have to be perfect. Right. And yet, I think we've talked a little bit about some expectations sometimes that we experienced ex kids that maybe, like, there was an expectation that we always had to do what was right.

Jennifer [00:20:35]:
And and and that's not a bad thing. I I definitely am glad I understand right from wrong, but there's not always a lot of space to be a human being in in some of those experiences. Right. That makes sense.

Ashlee [00:20:49]:
It does make sense. No. It does make sense. And I agree with you on that too. Right? Like, that pressure was definitely there. Do I appreciate it now that I'm older? Yes. But, yeah, that pressure that pressure was definitely there. But I do think that just, again, the impacts have have been tenfold, and I think that we would both love to hear I know I would love to hear a little bit more from people on what that looked like for them.

Ashlee [00:21:14]:
And, again, in my dissertation, another huge, like, finding that I had was, like, the medical stuff that would happen to family members due to such increased stress and anxiety during these times, which was wild. Like, kinda blew my mind.

Jennifer [00:21:29]:
So, well, it's it's I mean, it's exactly right. Like, you can't have one member of a family endure an extremely stressful situation and not impact the other members of the family. Yeah. Do you wanna speak a little bit about, like, an example of that of what you're Sure. So with protecting.

Ashlee [00:21:49]:
Yeah. And everybody, like, obviously, in terms of my dissertation, there's no names in it or anything. So if you went to read it, you wouldn't be able to to identify, which is nice. But what some of the things that I was getting told were, like anxiety, forcing them to go to school, not wanting to go to school, kids like throwing up, having a hard time going to bed, you know, kind of those subtle things. One that really stands out to me, though, that, like, man, I probably think about it too often, to be honest, was a child whose parent was on the front line. Actually, both parents were on the front line, so oof, right, of civil unrest events. And I had such a slew of officers be like, I wasn't home for weeks. Yeah.

Ashlee [00:22:31]:
Not seeing

Jennifer [00:22:31]:
their kids for weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, family had to come in to help caretake because they weren't home.

Ashlee [00:22:39]:
Which is insane. Right? But because their child had access to Facebook and, like, live feeds and stuff like that, their child actually started to have seizures. So like, landed in the hospital and everything, and and the only thing the doctors could come from that was that it was it was, like, anxiety induced, like, such high stress on the body. And, I just thought I I just remember hearing that, and I was like, there's that's insane. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. That is so scary. So so now, right, if you can imagine, child is having seizures, but these parents have no choice but to continue working Right. Because of what's going on.

Ashlee [00:23:21]:
I mean, they're may you know what I mean? So like you just said, we have grandparents, all these different type of family members trying to deal with this, and it's just how how much some of these people's world truly crumbled, you know, during these events, due to these events. And I just remember being like I don't know. Of course, I went into this knowing that I was gonna get things and and stories, but there was just that one for sure stood out to me and just the mere, like, magnitude of officers saying how their kids were responding. You know, obviously, behavioral issues. Yeah. You know, seeing younger ones and things like that acting out more. And it just it was just wild to me. And I remember kind of being like, well, this is the whole purpose of why I wrote it because all I all I really hope for is that people can read these things and realize that there's a much bigger system impacted than what sometimes we think individually.

Ashlee [00:24:17]:
Right. And we all do it. So Yeah. You know? And and I just yeah. I don't know. It still just sits with me. It sits with me in ways that motivates me. You know? Yeah.

Ashlee [00:24:28]:
This is why we do what we do. This is why I wanna talk about it. Like, I would hope some of these kids, or officers that are listening that may relate to this do reach out to us and say, let me share my story then too.

Jennifer [00:24:40]:
Oh, yes. Please. We welcome that for sure. And then I think as, you know, mental health professionals, what I come back to, you know, is just dialogue with your kids. You know, obviously, in those situation. I mean, who if you're not home to see your kid, you can't have a conversation. I'm not trying to say that. But, you know, I think the more often we can be really honest I don't know.

Jennifer [00:25:05]:
This might be a overshare a little bit. I told you I was in a training all day yesterday, and it was for, required, like, suicidal awareness training. And some of it was just about conversations and and when you have younger clients and made me reflect as a parent, which, of course, is a huge fear about your child and, you know, suicidal thoughts. And I have a little one, but, like, oh gosh. When will it be the time that we start having conversations about, you know Yeah. These things. And so I think it is hard as a parent to navigate having hard conversations with your kiddos because you wanna protect him. You wanna keep him innocent.

Jennifer [00:25:48]:
Like, I'm not trying to, like, make my kid aware of suicide when he's 5.

Ashlee [00:25:54]:
Right.

Jennifer [00:25:54]:
But, you know, I I do know that, like, he said things about something being dead. Like, I mean, there is some places where, like, we can have those kind of conversations. So, and I think what I often say to first responders is, you know, the one thing you can always guarantee your kiddos is that you'll love them And that no matter what, in any situation, you will do your best to to be come home and be safe. Yeah. I love that. Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:26:28]:
That's so true. I kinda

Jennifer [00:26:30]:
went on a tangent there, but I hope that makes sense.

Ashlee [00:26:33]:
I like it. No. I like it a lot. And, honestly, of course, my brain, because it just continues. I've people probably know this by now, but it just continues to think and go. It's like and, jeez, like, isn't that a whole another topic? A sensitive one for sure, but one that there's truth to within this field as well. Right? Like, we do know that after the stuff that happened at the capitol, there was officers who were lost by suicide. Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:27:00]:
Right? And it happens every year, and and it's sad.

Jennifer [00:27:04]:
It is incredibly sad. Some of the facts and figures in the training I was in talking about different populations, and first responders was not on the list. And I raised my hand, and I was like, actually, unfortunately, this is a population where that is a bit of a crisis within it.

Ashlee [00:27:24]:
You get them. I did. I did. I came for a precious number. Yeah. What the heck? You get them. Like, that but doesn't that oof. Mhmm.

Jennifer [00:27:33]:
Oh, here we go. Here we go. Yeah.

Ashlee [00:27:35]:
Yeah. I'm gonna try to get off it because, that's something that, really fuels me. Really, I think that's a flaw. I'm gonna just call out social work then. I don't even have to group you with me. Like, that is a flaw within social workers. In my opinion, people can hate or love me from it, but, that's a huge flaw. I remember going through school.

Ashlee [00:27:58]:
I'm writing my dissertation. First off, I had to fight tooth and nail to write my dissertation because I was writing it on first responders, specifically law enforcement.

Jennifer [00:28:07]:
Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:28:08]:
Right? Like, that shouldn't be a thing.

Jennifer [00:28:10]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:28:10]:
If we are social workers, we're helping every single population out there. I also had was confronted at one point with a literal, petition. It was a petition that professors, big named people at big universities, were literally signing saying that they would not support law enforcement and or educate their their students, social work students, on how to support law enforcement in their classrooms.

Jennifer [00:28:37]:
That's horrible.

Ashlee [00:28:38]:
I don't I do not I can't comprehend that. I'm not saying you have to like them. I'm not saying you have to in it guess what? If you don't wanna work with them, so be it. Right?

Jennifer [00:28:48]:
Like, so be it. Personal bias and things like that. Yeah. That's a helpful part of our training. Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:28:54]:
Correct. And that's okay. I respect that. But to, like, to hear of stuff like that happening and this is a good example. Like, why were they left off? Right? Like, in a maybe it was an accident, and you're so poor.

Jennifer [00:29:04]:
I don't know.

Ashlee [00:29:06]:
But it's just like that's wild to me. I still have to fight for that. I'm sure you feel that as well.

Jennifer [00:29:13]:
It's I was in a I mean, this was, like, right in the midst of COVID. I was in a training, and some of the stuff that was being put in the chat box about, you know, police officers. And I was like, y'all are being bigoted. Like, I mean, it was just so sad. I'm like, you don't even realize, you know, what you're saying here. Like, if this is a population and you're making these these broad statements, like, that is, you know, that is

Ashlee [00:29:45]:
So here we sit. Right? This is a lot of irony. Here we sit talking about all jeez. All these things that, like, we as children experienced, maybe other family members, them themselves, and turn around and say, and there's not enough therapists or people who are willing to help.

Jennifer [00:30:03]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:30:03]:
Like, what? Yeah. What? Which is why we fight. Right? Which is why you keep working at it, and you keep doing what you do. And

Jennifer [00:30:11]:
Absolutely. And I think, again shout out again to Caitlin. I think that she had us think a little bit deeper and, again, to kinda come through our conversations and our different experiences. And it makes a lot of sense. You know? It's like, oh, well, I didn't go through that. So I don't necessarily know what that's like, but, hey, these are those things that I experienced. And, again, like, just to really hit home, again, in the late 1900, if I'm getting this information without social media, your kids are definitely getting that information. And so and I I'm you know, I don't think it's just no social media unnecessarily, but I definitely think it's around some boundaries with that.

Jennifer [00:30:54]:
You know, I saw one thing that was like, oh, I'm not gonna get this right. But talking about maybe cell phone use with the adolescent. And it's not so much that you dictate the hours in which, like, you can only have it for this many hours. But saying, like, oh, well, we eat dinner. You don't have your cell phone. Or, you know, when it's family time, you don't have your cell phone. And so really trying to put it in place of, like, when we're gathering together, that's not a time to have your cell phone. Or, you know, if you're seeing maybe your adolescent isolate a little bit more like, hey.

Jennifer [00:31:30]:
Let's not have our phones in our rooms or, you know, whatever that is. And and here's the tricky thing with that. You know, I think what some of the expectations you have for your kiddos, you kinda have to have for yourself, which is a bummer. Oh my gosh. I was just in the car, and I got a text message. And I was at a stoplight, and I looked at it. And I'm like, Jennifer, what are you doing? Like, you're almost home. Just, like, look at it.

Jennifer [00:31:55]:
And because, you know, my kiddo's in the car with me, and I'm like, and those moments are tough, but and listen y'all. I'm barely parenting. Like, please know it's hard. And by no means, I'm like

Ashlee [00:32:08]:
doing great.

Jennifer [00:32:09]:
But it's hard, and I, you know, I don't think anybody has all the answers. And I'm definitely not trying to say I do is what I'm really most importantly saying. But

Ashlee [00:32:18]:
No. But I think it's awesome for people to hear you share that. Right? Like, one thing I don't have is parenting advice because I'm not one. Right? And I have a 1,000,000 nieces and nephews, but I don't I don't have that. And so I think it's important for people to hear hear you say that and hear you share, like, how do how do I manage that? How what are some different ways? Or that communication piece, how do I talk to my kids about this? Right? Like

Jennifer [00:32:42]:
Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:32:43]:
How do I limit it? And there's truth to that we can't always.

Jennifer [00:32:47]:
Right. Right.

Ashlee [00:32:49]:
Are great ways to help.

Jennifer [00:32:50]:
Mhmm. Oh, absolutely. And I think, you know, the more often you can have again, like, we're talking about the bad stuff. We're talking with your kids, but any kind of dialogue with your kids is always gonna be helpful.

Ashlee [00:33:03]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Kinda getting ahead of it. Right? Like Mhmm. I guess that's where my brain goes too is especially with the social media stuff. Right. You might see this or this might be, you know, like but, again, that reassurance of please know that it's not

Jennifer [00:33:17]:
I'm gonna do what I can to come home. And Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:33:20]:
Those information you might read or see isn't always accurate.

Jennifer [00:33:24]:
Exactly. And I think that that again, I think was helpful for me and I hate that my experience was, like, such a negative thing to go through to kinda give me that chip on my shoulder, but at the same time, I think it is helpful. And listen, I remember being in graduate school and a professor saying that in, like, the educational system, it took the time to go get the information. You know, you'd have to go to the library, use a Dewey Decimal system. Like, getting the information was where the labor was. Yeah. And nowadays, we have so much information. And now our work is to distinguish, like, what is factual research, what's not, and how that you know, we made this big switch, but we don't necessarily have the, like, skill set yet built in to, like, distinguish what information or being given so much information of, like, what is the factual information.

Ashlee [00:34:25]:
Yeah. And I think if I can bounce off of that a little bit too is, like you said, it's making sure that you're getting both sides. And I have to as a individual, as a human, as, you know, a social worker, like, I have to do that as well. Yeah. You know? Like, our thoughts, our experiences do shape what we believe and do shape

Jennifer [00:34:41]:
what we

Ashlee [00:34:42]:
think, and yet there is a whole another world out there that I don't know. You know? And so I have I have to do that. I have to ask for both sides. I have to understand both sides, and I just always encourage people to do the same thing. You know? See it from different perspectives.

Jennifer [00:34:57]:
Beautifully said. It was around the Ferguson time, and I was in a setting with a lot of people with a lot of different opinions. And it is funny that I'm doing a podcast because I do think I'm a better listener than I am necessarily a speaker. And so I'm like, I don't know all my thoughts on these things. But I was in this thing, and somebody got a little hot on the collar about, you know, the situation happening. And I'm like, oh my goodness. They're gonna, like, let loose. And I I I wanted to give them applause because they said, you know what that community needed? You know what they are so upset about the injustices that are happening? Where were they when it was time to vote? And they went on and on about the importance of voting, how important it is if you have a problem with your community and you don't like the way things are going, that you participate and you vote and you use your right as a citizen.

Jennifer [00:35:58]:
And, oh, talk about getting goosebumps.

Ashlee [00:36:00]:
Yeah. I I feel that too.

Jennifer [00:36:02]:
I was just so impressed by that, and I totally agree. Like, I think that that is something that we do have. And I think, you know, if you are upset about something, that that's a right that you have. And I think you're right. I think we all have different experiences, and we should be open to others' experiences as well.

Ashlee [00:36:23]:
And move towards finding a solution.

Jennifer [00:36:25]:
Yeah.

Ashlee [00:36:25]:
Just creating chaos.

Jennifer [00:36:27]:
Started. Yes.

Ashlee [00:36:29]:
Yes. Creating chaos. To create chaos doesn't do any good for anybody. Mhmm. Let's all work together to find that solution. Let's all think of things. Be active then in in educating and and figuring out different ways to to help if you feel super power like, powerful on one end of it or passionate, I should say. But, like, find that solution.

Jennifer [00:36:52]:
Absolutely. And I think that that's important. And I, you know, and, you know, I don't, think that you and I have all the solutions, but I definitely think it's powerful for us to kinda come together and talk about our experiences and say, hey. This might be helpful. You know?

Ashlee [00:37:10]:
Yeah. And if anything, just hopefully someone listens and feels a little validated or feels a little relief from being

Jennifer [00:37:16]:
like I wasn't the only one. Oh, yeah. Exactly. I I've so enjoyed it. And the feedback that I've gotten from other people out there, it's been it's been validating for me. So I hope it's validating for them as well.

Ashlee [00:37:30]:
Absolutely. Well, I hope that we get some people. You know, again, don't hesitate to message us. We have our social media platforms. We have our website. Go ahead and shoot us a message. We are open to everybody. You know? So we hope to to hear from people and get some other other folks on here who wanna share, you know, and maybe open our eyes to some new things like it's been happening already at the first I think we're on this is episode 11 or 12, which is insane.

Jennifer [00:37:57]:
That is wild. That is wild. Well, I will reference my shirt speaking of being on two sides. Our our teams play today, Ashlee.

Ashlee [00:38:06]:
I saw that. I'm not gonna lie. I was like, oh, no. At 3:30. It's going

Jennifer [00:38:11]:
down. Our Chiefs played today. We're on the different side of the the field today.

Ashlee [00:38:19]:
We are on different sides. I'm a Notre Dame fan. I mean, I went to Northern, but I just grew up, like, in Notre Dame.

Jennifer [00:38:26]:
Well, I grew up in Louisville and I'm a Cards fan, so go Cards today.

Ashlee [00:38:31]:
Right. So I'm gonna have to I'll just I'll just put my phone down and act no. We're skipping.

Jennifer [00:38:36]:
I'm just kidding.

Ashlee [00:38:37]:
Hey. As long as it's a good game, that's what I'm here for. Now if you bring it on about the Chicago Bears, you're gonna get a whole different side of me.

Jennifer [00:38:44]:
Oh, I'm not worried about that.

Ashlee [00:38:46]:
College, I'm not so intense, but, you know, NFL, well, you can really rattle me. So that's

Jennifer [00:38:51]:
A little bit. I mean, we just we got we were college towns and we don't have Right. Professionals. So

Ashlee [00:38:57]:
Which is awesome, though. I love that. I do kinda wanna share some exciting news

Jennifer [00:39:01]:
Oh, yes, please.

Ashlee [00:39:02]:
With our listeners. So Jennifer knows this, but we do have some really cool things coming down the pipeline. I was able to travel to New Jersey and meet up with Thomas Rizzo from On Patrol Live. He is huge in a whole another topic that we really need to get into.

Jennifer [00:39:21]:
Absolutely.

Ashlee [00:39:22]:
Which is a very, big topic of organizational troubles. You know? So some organizational dysfunctions, department, betrayal, things like that. But I learned a lot from him. And it was an honor to meet with him, and it was an honor to to learn from him. And he's willing to be on our show.

Jennifer [00:39:40]:
Well, I think I was fixing you the whole time, like, starstruck. Like, have you met him yet? What's it gonna be like? And so, yeah, I'm excited, and I appreciate you doing all the legwork on a jersey for him.

Ashlee [00:39:53]:
He was so kind, and it's wild. I'm like, oh my gosh. You know, he's on the show every Friday Saturday, and I just wanted to put that out there so that our listeners keep listening because we're gonna have some cool things coming down coming down the pipeline.

Jennifer [00:40:06]:
Yes. Yes. Yes. And we appreciate your time in listening to the show.

Ashlee [00:40:11]:
Absolutely. Anything else? You wanna leave them with anything? You got nothing? It was a this was a great one. So I know. We thank you all for listening, and we just always, of course, want you to remember that when the call hits home, Jennifer and I are here for you.

Jennifer [00:40:25]:
Thank you. Good one. Bye.