When The Call Hits Home | Episode 15: Honoring First Responders and Their Families

Jennifer [00:00:07]:
Hi. I'm Jennifer Woosley Saylor. I'm a licensed professional clinical counselor and the kid of a cop. And this is the podcast when the call hits home. Hey, everyone. It's Ashlee Gethner. I'm a licensed clinical social worker, and I'm also a child of a police officer.

Ashlee [00:00:23]:
Welcome back to When the Call Hits Home. I'm Jennifer Woosley, licensed professional clinical counselor.

Jennifer [00:00:29]:
And I'm Ashlee Gethner, licensed clinical social worker. And we are so excited to have

Ashlee [00:00:34]:
you guys here today because we have 2 amazing, amazing guests. I'm gonna just start gushing about how awesome you guys are. So why don't we start by you guys introducing yourselves, and then we'll go from there.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:00:45]:
Okay. Well, I'm Catherine Severins Avery. I'm the founder and executive director of Restoration Ranch Colorado, which is a 40 acre ranch in Colorado that provides recreation and respite opportunities for first responders and their family. And Ashlee is one of our people who works with us. So, Ashlee, let's introduce you.

Ashley Braund [00:01:09]:
Hey, everyone. I'm Ashlee. I am a licensed professional counselor here in Colorado as well, and I help, Restoration Ranch run the teen day camps.

Ashlee [00:01:19]:
Well, we wanna hear all about Restoration Ranch. So tell us can we start with maybe how the ranch got started? And then we'll go into a little bit more details about the ranch. Would that be okay?

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:01:32]:
We'd love to share the story with you. Good. So on December 4, 2020, I get it's hard to remember back that, like, we were in the middle of COVID Mhmm. And we were ready to go into another lockdown. My husband, Chris, and I were thinking, okay. We should go get groceries and kind of prepare for this. And we're in the middle of remodeling our home, so it's just an absolute catastrophe. So we get up.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:01:58]:
We have a really great morning together. I'm working on an 8 foot angel that's the centerpiece of my holiday lighting display. I'd won the neighborhood's 1st place 2 years, and this is, like, go for a hat trick. So I'm highly competitive, so I did that.

Ashley Braund [00:02:13]:
Love it.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:02:14]:
So yeah. And, it were it's the 4th, so Advent has started, and I decided I was going to do a very gluttonous Advent activity, making a different kind of cookie every single day. And my husband and I are the part of the 1% of the population that really likes fruitcake, so I found a recipe for fruitcake cookies. But the store closest to us didn't have the citron, which is an essential ingredient. So I switched the order to be picked up at another grocery store about 2 miles away. So when Chris left that morning, I mean, highly intuitive, and that little voice in my head went off and said, make sure you kiss him goodbye. So he's sitting at our island, and I'm making, you know, making my cookies and all that kind of stuff. And as he's getting ready to leave, I that little voice says cook me, you know so I went up and kissed him on the back of the neck and asked him, do you know how much I love you? And he said yes.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:03:16]:
And he's okay. I'll be back in I'll be back in soon. And he left, and I never saw my husband again. At the same time, he was driving to the grocery store. 3 robbery suspects were robbing an Ulta Beauty store, which is really weird. Why would you rob a beauty store? But they were boosting product to sell on the Internet. And Chris was at a traffic light, and the light turned green. And he entered the intersection, and he was t boned by these 3 robbery suspects who were fleeing from police.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:03:51]:
It's important to note that the police had called off the chase because they were driving so dangerously. They were weaving in and out of traffic on a major thoroughfare that they were going through a residential community at almost 80 miles an hour. Oh, gosh. So when they blew through the intersection, they t boned Chris, pushed our car 30 feet sideways down the street, which tells you how much momentum they had. And Chris bled out and died at the scene. At 3 minutes after 2, I'm in my garage, and my body literally shook. That was the time of the impact. Wow.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:04:33]:
And I thought something just happened to Chris. And so, you know, an hour goes by and I think, wow. You know, what's he doing? He must be out Christmas shopping. And I've heard helicopters. I've heard sirens. And I'm kinda like, I don't understand this. What's going on? You know? And so then it got to be 2 hours, and I was texting him and calling him thinking, you little booger, if you're out Christmas shopping, I am gonna be really pissed.

Ashlee [00:04:59]:
Right.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:05:00]:
And that voice in my head literally said, do not be angry with him. And that was when I figured out he's dead.

Ashlee [00:05:09]:
Wow.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:05:09]:
So I called the nonemergency number of the GEFCOM 911 dispatch. They connected me to a person in the Lakewood, Colorado Police Department who asked me details about our car. And, of course, you know, I'm starting to panic at this point. I can remember that it's a silver Honda Accord, but I couldn't remember my license plate number, all those things that when you start to go into trauma, your brain doesn't work really well.

Ashlee [00:05:35]:
Right. Right.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:05:37]:
And then they got to be later and later. Now it's about 4 o'clock, so more than 2 hours have elapsed. It's starting to get dark. And my husband was a very large man. And I thought, oh my god. What if Chris had, like, a medical emergency? So I thought, let me go drive to where he was picking up the groceries. But by the grace of god, I took a different route and did not come across the crash scene. I also did not watch the news that night because if I had, I would have watched my husband die on live TV.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:06:13]:
They were running the surveillance footage from the convenience store at the corner on that intersection on the 5 o'clock news. So I didn't see that, but I called when I got to the grocery store, went up and down all the aisles, in the parking lot. Our car wasn't there. I went over to where the grocery pickup was and asked, did my husband get our groceries? And they said, no. He never came. And then I really knew he wasn't gonna come home. For you. Yeah.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:06:45]:
So fast forward, that following year on April 26th would have been a milestone birthday for Chris, and I didn't wanna spend it by myself. And because of the way I reacted to this tragedy where everyone was asking me, are you gonna sue the police department? And my response was, why on earth would I do that? They were just doing their job. And I was told, you could get 1,000,000 of dollars. And I'm like, that's not gonna bring my husband back. I'm not gonna do that. Right. So it started an unusual relationship with the Lakewood Colorado Police Department. And I called and talked to the person that I had spoken to the day that Chris was killed and said, hey.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:07:30]:
I'd like to celebrate Chris's birthday with your people and bring food from his favorite restaurants to roll call. And he was like, okay. Sounds like a great idea. So this was in April. And 2 days before, I called and said, where do I show up and what time? And he was like, oh my god. You're really gonna do that?

Ashley Braund [00:07:48]:
And I

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:07:48]:
was like, yes. And he's like, oh, okay. So he told me where to be, and I picked up the food. And I attended roll call. And the day before, a 14 year old boy had stabbed his mother more than 30 times including through the skull. Wow. And the officer first on scene was in roll call talking in graphic and uncensored language about what had happened. EMS had been delayed in getting to the scene.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:08:19]:
This guy's, you know, he's trying to arrest you know, or at least, put the suspect in custody and to be able to, like, help the mother, and he's, like, talking. And I'm like, why is he at work? Yeah. What's he doing here? And I asked command staff, and they said, well, he doesn't wanna sit at home and think about this by himself. He may not want or need mental health counseling at this point, and there's no other place for him to go. And I thought, that is so wrong. And I decided I can do something about this. So I met with the FOP rep about a I wanted to give them time at my house in Maine, my vacation at home there that Chris and I had, because I had three trials with 3 defendants, and I was going nowhere that summer. And I thought, well, let me give them time there.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:09:15]:
And I found out, well, you can't do it as a direct donation because that's a bribe, and that would put you in jail. And I was like, let's not do that.

Jennifer [00:09:23]:
I like that they follow the rules. I know. Yes. Exactly. A little bit. Yeah. Instead of what we're trying to

Ashlee [00:09:28]:
do here.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:09:30]:
So when I met with the FOP rep whose first response was, what do you want? And I was like, excuse me? And he's like, what do you want? I mean, now I understand how suspicious and skeptical law enforcement can be, but at the time, I was kind of taken aback by that. I said, I don't want anything. And he's like, you have to want something. And I said, okay. I wanna say thank you. And then he looked at me like I had 5 heads. And so we talked about how to handle the vacation donation through FOP. And then I floated this other idea.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:10:03]:
I said, I want to create a place for first responders and their families to be able to go to just rest and relax. And he said, that doesn't exist. And I said, yeah. I know. I'm going to create it. And then he really thought I was a unicorn. So long story longer, I bought the ranch in March of the following year. We started renovations the next day.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:10:33]:
We were open by June. Wow. And then I hit this wall where no one was coming. And I thought, what the hell? I spent all this money buying and creating this sanctuary, and first responders aren't going they're not coming. What the heck? I founded the nonprofit. I had a board, and one of my board members was the former deputy public safety director for the state of Colorado. And I said, Beck, I need to talk to your old boss and figure out what's going on. And so I told him what I was doing, and I said, why aren't people coming? And he said, Catherine, it's not that they don't want to.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:11:11]:
It's that we are stretched so thin, they don't have time to come. Yeah.

Ashley Braund [00:11:17]:
And I

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:11:17]:
was like, oh. And then you have this whole thing about, okay, what is this place? You know, is there gonna be a time share pitch? Do I have to do something to earn a stay there? What's involved? So, we're now 3 years old. Last year, we had more than 200 and 50 guests come to the ranch. They stay there at no cost. Wow. This year, we are on track to more than double that number. But during the building these relationships, 2 teenage daughters of law enforcement approached me one day, and they said they'd never met before. Their dads knew each other well, but they'd never met.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:11:57]:
And she they said, we need to hang out with other people like us. And I was like, okay. Tell me more. And they're like, well, she knows what a code word is. I'm like, I don't. What's a code word? And it's like, mom or dad drops that word, you know, to get up, get out, and go to a predesignated point. I was like, oh my god. And then they talked about how they were held to different behavioral standards and academic standards than their peers in school because mom and dad were, you know, involved in law enforcement.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:12:31]:
And I was like, well, that's crazy. So I thought, let me find out how can I create a day camp to be able to do this? And I reached out to Tommy Adenalian, who's another therapist here in Colorado, who happened to be I think he was your boss at the time. Right, Ashlee?

Ashley Braund [00:12:50]:
His supervisor.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:12:51]:
Supervisors. Excuse me. And when I floated the idea to Tommy, he's like, that doesn't exist. I'm like, yeah. I know. I'm really good at, like, doing those things. So I reached out to Ashlee, and she came to the ranch, and we talked, and we held our first camp. And we knew that it was life altering.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:13:13]:
And so now we're continuing to do them. But, again, we have competing priorities with scheduling and trying to get kids to come when they're like, okay. Where is this place? Because we keep the the location confidential. You know? Am I what's it gonna be like? Who's this person I'm going to be interacting with? So this year, we got a little bit smarter. We had Ashlee create some videos to explain the purpose of the camp, what they would do with the camp, that they won't be forced to do anything that they don't want to do, and we're hoping that those will help us market it. And as we continue to move forward, we will open up the opportunity to more and more people because we want these camps to grow and to be full. We also want to be able to hold them in states other than Colorado. So that's the great grand tour of why we're here today.

Ashlee [00:14:12]:
Well, Catherine, I appreciate you sharing that. And and, again, you know, we spoke before, but I just have to say it again for our listeners. It's incredible, the story. And, again, how you keep Chris alive and in doing this restoration ranch. It's beautiful.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:14:25]:
Thank you.

Ashlee [00:14:26]:
Yeah. Of course. Ashlee, can you talk a little bit about maybe your side in terms of the kids camp, you know, ages, things that they do?

Ashley Braund [00:14:36]:
Yeah. So with the teen camp, we usually try to keep them around the same age. So, usually, it's at 12 to 18 years old. And we also realized early on that, you know, teens of law enforcement officers and teens of firefighters or teens of EMS or teens of first, or dispatchers, right, are all unique, all have different experience.

Ashlee [00:14:59]:
They're all different. Yes.

Ashley Braund [00:15:01]:
Yes. And so wanting to really hone in on making sure that they feel seen and heard and that their experiences of what they go through, that they are not alone. I think that's, like, the biggest thing with the camps. Some of the overall themes that have been talked about of is just, like, wanting to protect their parent, but especially with there was a good chunk of time there, right, where it was society was very much, you know, anti law enforcement, anti cop, anti first responder. And so there were great conversations of just those teens and how they handle those, like, things at school, how they handle friends, how to, you know, maintain friends knowing that they're saying, like, you know, like, I don't like the cops. The cops are bad. 1st responder, things like that. And just being able to, like, truly open up, bond with each other, like Catherine mentioned that the goal of the camps is to literally that they're in control.

Ashley Braund [00:15:57]:
I give them options of, like, hey. I have a layout of what we can do today. At the same time, this is in school. We're not holding to that. If you don't wanna do something, we're not gonna do it.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:16:08]:
I will.

Ashley Braund [00:16:08]:
I get it. Like, if you have a full week of school, I think the last thing you wanna do, especially at a retreat, a beautiful 40 acre retreat, is it to feel like school. And so we get outside, we hike, there's a memory forest where teens, you know, have painted things, have memory of family members or loved ones or friends, and just being able to really build on memories and just, again, make them feel heard and seen and that they're not alone of having to go through, you know, being a child or a teen of a

Jennifer [00:16:40]:
first responder. Absolutely. And so I I do, for myself, I have to thank you again too, Catherine, for being so open and honest in sharing your story. And and I we've Jennifer and I have had this, like, awesome opportunity to talk with you both prior to this, and I don't I don't know that there'll ever be a time when I hear that story that doesn't give me chills and it doesn't you know? So so thank you so much for that. It impacts me every single time, and it's a learning opportunity, I think, for all of us. But I think even for when the call hits home, right, for this podcast and for our community, everything both of you guys have said, I feel like is already something that we have been digesting and, you know, like ripping apart and all these things within this podcast itself. And so to have you guys come on here and to have this opportunity, that connection, it's it's something that literally warms my heart and I hope, like, the one that Call Hits Home Family feels that too. Like it's all encompassing at this moment.

Jennifer [00:17:35]:
Right? We have this educational piece and now we have other people who are who are really putting it together for us and are making a really safe space for these first responders and children of first responders to go and connect, which is absolutely incredible. So how do people how would someone kind of get in contact with you guys or is there a procedure that takes place for our listeners, and in terms of, I guess, learning more if they do wanna come or things like that? How would they do that?

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:18:03]:
So all of the visits are at the ranch are handled by sending a email to visit at restorationranchcolorado.com. And so if you let us know that you're interested in that, then we can put you on a mailing list and then send you information about when camps are going to be held. We're trying to do it at least 2 to 3 months in advance now so that people can plan around. Oh, I need you know, we need to schedule vacations. And, you know, I think it's important to stress too that I'm a civilian. My husband was a civilian. Yeah. And to have been let into the first responder community in the way that I have been, I know is highly unusual.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:18:52]:
But one of the things that we do is we we always keep our word. If we say we're going to do something, by god, we do it. Yeah. Because trust is so important to build. And it's also important I'm part of Rotary, and we have a Rotary Youth Leadership Academy that happens. And I listen to kids who had been to Ryla, and I'm new to Rotary. And I was like, what is Ryla? I don't get this. And when the kids came and talked about it, it was like, oh, I get it.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:19:23]:
And then every one of them said, I was afraid to go because I didn't know what it was going to be like. And I thought, we need to raise the comfort level. And I think that the I mean, I am a well educated woman who is blissfully ignorant of the sacrifices that first responders and their families make. We just take for granted you're gonna show up when we call 911. And truly having gone through this experience, I now educate, advocate, and agitate on behalf of the first responder community because civilians are ignorant, and that needs to change. And it shouldn't change only after you experience a crime or a natural disaster or some kind of catastrophe.

Jennifer [00:20:15]:
Right.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:20:16]:
We need to understand that if we don't take care of our first responders and if we don't support their families, there will be incredible consequences for generations. I'm not willing to let that happen because generational trauma is real. Absolutely. And these families will be passing it on either knowingly or unknowingly if they don't choose to do something about it. So I think that it's not just the camps for kids. We really wanna reach out to spouse groups as well because so many of them disbanded during COVID.

Ashley Braund [00:20:53]:
Yeah.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:20:54]:
And there's not a great opportunity for them to get information on resources. And and where do we go for this, and how do we do this? I personally am not qualified to provide that information, but we're very interested in reaching out and connecting with spouse groups to be able to say, what else can we do for your kids? You know, what do we need to be focusing on to help your families be strong and to survive? Because the divorce rate among particularly law enforcement, unbelievably high. Very And then to learn that more first responders died from suicide last year than died in the line of duty is an unacceptable statistic. And that is something that we at Restoration Ranch Colorado are committed to doing something about. You need to know that you are seen, you are heard, you are validated, and most importantly, you are appreciated. Right. Because I think the I think the public in general does first responders a huge disservice when we label them as heroes because that makes them feel that they have a standard of conduct that they have to uphold that is not sustainable. And we need to recognize first and foremost, they're human beings.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:22:21]:
Mhmm. And we need to be there for them. And I realize there are not a lot of people like me out there. I want there to be more of them. So to be able to reach out and connect with your community, oh, man. We would welcome that opportunity.

Ashlee [00:22:39]:
Well and we will make sure to put that email and the links as well for the show because I think getting just the word out is so important and recognizing, you know, what kids need. They need some, like, this is what it's gonna be like and some security in bridging that for sure. And, Catherine, I just appreciate you are banging a drum and you bang it loud, and it's one that needs to be bang.

Jennifer [00:23:03]:
So you're This is so silly, but I literally feel like when I listen to Catherine talk, I'm like, oh my I'm gonna run through a wall after this. Like, my motivation, like like, it pumped me up. Like, I get, like, oh, right before a sporting event or something. I that same feeling. Like, let's go. Let's do this because, really, at the end of the day, like, we have to all work together to make these shit happen and to find other people who are so passionate like this too. Yeah. It I don't know what I we Jennifer and I talk about this all the time.

Jennifer [00:23:32]:
It just after our last meeting, like, it just ignites your soul. Like, it's it's there's no better feeling. And so it's really an honor to have you guys both on here. So thank you for that.

Ashlee [00:23:42]:
Yeah. And talking about that. And especially, I think, Catherine, you, you know, own this to say I'm a bit of this, like, civilian outsider and how to come in. And sometimes we need that. You know? We need the profit from the outside to come in and say, hey. This is the way and direction we need to go. I think it's so powerful, the restoration ranch too, is this beautiful 40 acre place in nature, you know, from a mental health perspective. And we talk about our nervous system and things like that.

Ashlee [00:24:10]:
And just Mhmm. More and more research is saying, like, be out in nature if you wanna feel better. And I also just wanna really applaud the fact that you guys protect the location. Like, Ashlee and I have no clue where this is in Colorado. Like, you guys do a really great job because it's important for our first responder families to feel safe. Yes. That they have a place to go to restore and feel safe. So that's powerful as well.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:24:37]:
Now there's a funny story that goes along with that. So when the SWAT team came out to do a security assessment of the ranch, there was a house across the street very high up on the mountain that has an unobstructed view of the ranch. And they called it sniper house. And I was like, wow. And they were like, if we're ever going to have a threat, it's going to come from that house. And I was like, holy moly. Okay. I would never have thought about that.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:25:08]:
And, also, I think it's funny because when they first came out, it's like, well, we need an armored bunker, and we need to have bulletproof glass, and we need to have security gates and cameras. And now they're like, yeah. We're good. But back to the house, I kept on saying, if there's ever an opportunity to purchase that house, I'm gonna buy it. Oh. So I lived at the ranch during the 1st year. We didn't have caretakers. We now have 2 remarkable people who run the ranch for me, so I can go out and do my educating, advocating, and agitating.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:25:43]:
But when they were moving into the so the house came on the market, and I went and looked at it. And I was about to put an offer on it when we got a text from the realtor that said, I'm sorry it's been sold. So I'm living at the ranch, and every time I look at this house, I keep on going, you are my you are my house. I was claiming it. So Kaye and Crude move in in September, and they knew that I had been looking for another property because I love living in the mountains. Although on days like today when we're about to have another 2 feet of snow, I don't

Ashlee [00:26:16]:
know. Like, why am I here?

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:26:19]:
I mean, that's beautiful, but it's it's it's interesting. But, anyway, they were they were moving in, and they're like, hey. I we saw another house that's going on the market up the street. Maybe you wanna go look at it. So I throw my dog Zula in the back of the car, and we go down the driveway, and we turn and we go past the driveway that goes up to sniper house. And that voice in my head goes off again, and it goes, it's back on the market. I did a u-turn. I went back to the ranch, and I texted my realtor, and I said, did that place close? And she's like, yeah.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:26:50]:
2 weeks ago. I said, will you check? And so, like, 5 minutes later, I get a text that just says, o m g with about 500 exclamation points. She's like, it went back on the market yesterday. And I said, right up, Oliver. Yes. I had no idea how I was going to be able to purchase this house. I didn't have the funds. And so I'm like, I okay.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:27:16]:
I'm a believer. You know? It's like, I I am a force to be reckoned with. This will happen. And so we're talking about, I have no idea how I'm gonna do this. And Okie looks at me and she goes, how old are you? And I said, I'm 67. And she's like, oh my god. You could qualify for a reverse purchase for a reverse mortgage for purchase. So I was able to buy sniper house.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:27:41]:
It gets better. The guy who was had the contract before was a well known meth manufacturer and meth distributor.

Jennifer [00:27:51]:
I'm here.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:27:52]:
Been in the mouth. Okay. Okay. Like, yeah. Thank you for keeping my first responder community safe. You know?

Jennifer [00:28:00]:
Yeah. So

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:28:01]:
Oh. I mean but that's how this process has unfolded. I've never been a part of anything that has had this much momentum, this much drive, this much purpose and passion behind it. So it excites me to see you guys get excited.

Ashley Braund [00:28:18]:
Oh, absolutely.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:28:20]:
This needs to grow. Yeah. And it will. Yeah. And by doing a podcast like this and letting other people know, wow. Let's do this. Let's make this happen. Let's figure out because everybody talks about high performing first responders.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:28:40]:
Yeah. If they're traumatized, if they're tired, are they going to be able to make the best decisions on the job? No. Hell no. We know that if you're tired, it's like being drunk in terms of how your brain is functioning.

Ashlee [00:28:54]:
Exactly.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:28:55]:
So and the other thing is, like, I you mentioned about being the outside person looking in. One of my first questions was, why on earth are there no 24 hour day care facilities for first responder families?

Jennifer [00:29:08]:
That's a good point.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:29:10]:
And I was like, what? Oh my god. And it's and municipalities won't tackle that because of liability issues. And I'm like, we're a nonprofit, and we are beholden to no one other than our board of trustees. So that is something that it's not an immediate goal that we can meet, but we are certainly letting people know. And particularly when you think about single parent

Ashlee [00:29:36]:
Oh, yeah.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:29:36]:
First responders

Ashley Braund [00:29:38]:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:29:39]:
O m g. Their level is off the charts because it's like, okay. Now my call's extended by 5, 6, 8, 10 hours. I don't know. Who's gonna take care of my kid? And the ripple effect throughout the family. Again, the general public doesn't notice or think about it.

Jennifer [00:29:58]:
Well, and I love that you actually just brought this up because I just heard recently too through through conversation, like, natural conversation that not only that, but that day care part, the expense of it for these first responders. So I've had so many say, all I do is work and work overtime to just give it to my day care, but yet I have to work like it's a never ending cycle that I can't get out of.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:30:20]:
Correct.

Jennifer [00:30:20]:
So that financial piece too is huge.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:30:23]:
Absolutely. Well and

Ashlee [00:30:24]:
I just wanna recognize that you guys so quickly moved into that bigger family aspect of who you're serving as first responders. You know, I I do think that there's some programs for first responders that are wonderful. But Ashlee and I, I think, started this whole podcast just based on being kids of first responders. I just really have to applaud that so much is that you didn't just see the individual that's in the uniform, but you saw who's also with them in that. So I think that that's so powerful as well.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:30:58]:
Yeah. And I think that that's really important because, again, there's backstory. So the the guy that I talked with on the day that Chris was killed, his daughter was obviously the one that helped found the teen camps. Well, it was almost a year later that I learned that it was her birthday, the day my husband was killed. Oh. So her dad missed her 13th birthday. And I thought, you'll never get that back. So on the second anniversary of Chris's passing, we had a gathering at my house, and we sang her happy birthday.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:31:41]:
And I took her aside, and I said, you know, it made me so sad that your dad missed that very important day. And she was like, it's okay. And I said, no. It's not. I said, because you'll never get that back again. And what she said made me burst into tears. She said, Catherine, if that hadn't happened, we never would have met you. Oh, wow.

Ashlee [00:32:06]:
You're making me cry.

Jennifer [00:32:07]:
I was about to say. I'm trying to look up. I'm doing the look up tactic. Yeah.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:32:14]:
And and, again, the ripple effect of kindness in a world that is crazy and chaotic

Ashlee [00:32:22]:
Right.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:32:22]:
And and that's what you deal with every single day because that's your job. We just need to remember that when you treat people the way you wanna be treated, it helps them perform better. It helps them be better people. And and that's what I wanna spread. That's what I want my legacy to be was because I knew if I took on the justice system, I would be old and bitter. And, I mean, seriously truth. So and to give you an an example and, again, I you know, I I don't I don't do victim's advocacy work, but, you know, there's part of me that's like I have a big mouth and I use it. So one of the things that people don't recognize is how our system victimizes victims over and over again.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:33:16]:
Because remember, I have 3 defendants. They are already in community corrections and early parole hearings. So I literally have to go and testify every 2 to 3 months to keep them in jail for killing my husband. And I just got a notice from the Colorado Department of Corrections that the next hearing for the driver who is directly responsible for my husband's death is on December 4th, the day he was killed, and it cannot be changed.

Ashlee [00:33:57]:
Oh my goodness.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:33:58]:
That's unacceptable. Okay. That is unacceptable. And I lost my husband and that's that that's a trauma. Yeah. I get it. I was not raped. I didn't have somebody try to murder me.

Jennifer [00:34:13]:
Right.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:34:14]:
And I know how hard it is for me to go and stand up and talk about what happened because they don't know.

Jennifer [00:34:21]:
Right.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:34:22]:
Why this person should stay in jail, and to know that if I don't do that, there is a high probability he will be let go. Right. Or she will be let go because one of what one of the defendants was a woman. So

Ashlee [00:34:37]:
Yeah. That takes so much courage. Oh, my goodness. And I'm glad that you're even bringing that to this conversation too in terms of that. I think we're really lucky to have your big beautiful mouth on this podcast, Catherine.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:34:51]:
So very

Ashlee [00:34:52]:
I want to also just put a little bit of light and change, course slightly because this isn't the only thing you do. Right, Catherine? And I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about your work as an author, if that would be something you wouldn't mind sharing with us.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:35:09]:
I would love to. I've written 7 books. 2 of them are on women's empowerment. Most of them are on crafts and design work because that's what I do. But in 2016, my husband, Chris, retired. And we had spent more than a year creating a plan for what we were going to do in retirement. We purchased this house in Maine. I had renovated it.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:35:31]:
We thought it was gonna be great. We'll go up. We'll spend time there. It'll be a fun thing to do. And the first 3 year 3 years now, 3 months of Chris's retirement, we bought more than we had bought in our entire marriage. Oh goodness. That's an adjustment. Yeah.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:35:52]:
Because what happened and, again, this is particularly true for any profession, including first responders, where your identity is tied into what you do. Same. And when you retire, you go from being that person to somebody who becomes invisible in our society. Mhmm. And there are 76,000,000 baby boomers that by 2030 will have turned 65, and they are all contemplating retirement. So I have written a book. I've created a life planner and a coaching system called your countdown to retirement that walks you through the nonfinancial aspects of retirement planning. Because we've we had a plan.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:36:44]:
It didn't work. And we were in a tiny apartment in Augusta, which is set 45 minutes away from our house. It was hot. It was cramped. We had way too much togetherness. I mean, we would go to the YMCA and practically attack people to have somebody else. We're like, oh my god. They think we're stalkers.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:37:05]:
Oh my god. And I just wasn't prepared for it. And I was not prepared for the depression that my husband went through, where he became absolutely immobilized and unable to function. And I thought, oh my god. This is awful. And then, of course, there's what we call hijacked retirement, where a life circumstance blows up your plan. So I'd always told Chris, I will never retire. That's just not my thing.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:37:39]:
I will work till the day I drop. But I think that there's a lot of misconceptions about these being our golden years. Yeah. Not so much. And to know things like, you know, most people trade 40 hours of work for 40 hours of television watching. That is a surefire way to die early.

Jennifer [00:38:00]:
Yep. Yep.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:38:00]:
And first responders are particularly at risk. Their post retirement survival rate pre COVID was 5 years. It's now 18 months because the accumulated stress that has not been dealt with comes and bites you when you stop.

Ashley Braund [00:38:21]:
Mhmm.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:38:21]:
And so not only do I have the year countdown to retirement system, by the end of this year, the book specifically for law enforcement will be available. And I'm doing an additional book for fire and EMS, for dispatch, for, frontline hospital workers because nobody's talking about all of the things that you need to think about and that you need to start ideally 5 years before your last day of work. But I interviewed someone recently who only retired 2 months ago. And he said, I thought I was ready. But when you hand in your badge and your weapon and your you know, everything that goes along with that and you realize when you walk out that door, you cannot walk back in, he said it was a gut punch. I bet. Nobody nobody's walking you through those steps.

Ashlee [00:39:23]:
Not at all.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:39:24]:
Yeah. Thank you for letting me talk about your countdown to retirement.

Jennifer [00:39:28]:
So one of the biggest things that I know I've I've shared before is, like, that topic for me. So doing trainings and stuff for different departments, that comes up often. I've been asked so many times, even just recently, like, what do we have for retired officers? What do we have? Right. Well and and that's what's so exciting about this is that I feel terrible when I look at them and say, all I know I work with a lot of retired officers, but I actually don't know of many things or anything at this moment, this was prior to meeting you, that we have for this. Right? And so Mhmm. We one thing I wanna share is that we're gonna definitely I'll share those books, those pictures, all of that on our socials, on this podcast. We'll come back to it a 1000000 times. Thank you.

Jennifer [00:40:10]:
We will really share that because that hits that hits a a population that needs it that needs

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:40:16]:
it desperately. Yes.

Ashley Braund [00:40:18]:
I

Jennifer [00:40:18]:
mean, I'm just so thankful having a dad who's retired, like, to even know that that's out there, and that's something that I can share to to my folks too that I'm working with. And I think that's incredible, and we will share that. And so I do wanna ask, actually, I think this might be a great place to do it and maybe hit on that. Like, so retired officers are also involved in the ranch as well.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:40:39]:
Correct. And so we yeah. It was brought up, you know, can retirees come to the ranch? Yes. Of course, you can. I mean, if there's one so we have another program called Valor Vacations USA. So it started when I couldn't go to my house in Maine, and we ended up having a West Metro firefighting family go and spend a week there. It morphed into a program where you had to be nominated and then selected. And then I we had gave away 11 vacations and only 2 people took them.

Jennifer [00:41:11]:
And I

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:41:11]:
once again was like, okay. What's going on here? And I was speaking at a trauma conference and one of the people in the q and a said, are you having trouble giving away your vacations? And I said, yeah. We are. Can you explain that? And he said, I speak for every person in this room. If we were nominated and selected, there would be 5 other people we thought that deserved it more than we did. We're not gonna go. Wow. And I went, oh, for pee pee.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:41:42]:
You know, this this sense of humbleness and modesty, I mean, I get it because that's part of your servant heart, which I have as well. But get over your bad selves. And so, again, I also am a Reiki master. And one of my friends who's an officer was having some some issues. And I said, would you like me to do distance Reiki on you? And he goes, no. Do it on somebody who really needs it. I'm like, you really need it.

Jennifer [00:42:08]:
I'm like, there was just like responders.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:42:10]:
But that's part of the culture. And the self care, if you don't do it, it's like, oh my gosh. I so and I just got, you know, again, everything happens for a reason. I wasn't planning I thought didn't think I was gonna drive out to Maine, but I did. And so I listened to books on tape in the car. And so I was listening to a book by doctor Benjamin Hardy about future self psychology because

Ashley Braund [00:42:37]:
I'm

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:42:37]:
a future self planner, and psychology has changed from okay. We've looked at therapy in the past from okay. These things happened to you, and this is the meaning that you've attached to your story, and that's why you are now. Whereas now the shift is to this is where you are now. Where do you want to go?

Jennifer [00:42:56]:
Absolutely. Yeah.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:42:57]:
And that's the future self coaching that I do. It's helping you figure out with the end in mind, what are the steps that I need to be there? How do I have a happy and healthy retirement? Or it doesn't even have to be retirement. Any phase of life, it's like when you become acquainted with who you want to be in the future, you can actually ask some questions about, I'm stuck here. I don't know what I'm doing. Can you tell me what I need to do? It change it's a game changer. Everything is different when you can incorporate that into the therapy or the coaching that you're doing, and that's really what I'm excited about. But when stability, consistency, and predictability are the three things that you stand on in law enforcement. There ain't nothing that's stable, predictable, or consistent about retirement.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:43:52]:
So if you don't learn how to be resilient and to cope with change, which most law enforcement hate change. They want it to be the same. It should be the same it was today, tomorrow, yesterday, forever.

Ashlee [00:44:07]:
No way.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:44:08]:
No. It doesn't work that way. So you have to teach them because they don't know because it's not anything that they learn. So, again, I feel like this is a phenomenal opportunity, and I'm starting a podcast. And I want all

Ashley Braund [00:44:24]:
of you to be on the YCT

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:44:26]:
and account on to retirement podcast because you will bring unique perspectives that we need to talk about.

Jennifer [00:44:34]:
You know, what you really bring up, Catherine, is often saying things I talk in session with clients about who are first responders, which is, you know, they're so worried about making sure people can have a seat at the table. And, you know, I think of my grandmother who was always making sure, like, do you have enough rolls or refill your milk? And and we forget sometimes, like, we have a a chair, a place at the table as well. And I really think that's what you're offering in restoration ranch in terms of saying, like, you can take a seat that will help you, and how you serve others is taking

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:45:07]:
that seat. Because what we if we don't do it for ourselves, we can't do it for other people. You and, you know, again, the do as I say, not as I do model we know is an abysmal failure. So if you're trying to teach your kids how to take care of themselves and you don't do it yourself, gee, that's gonna work out real well for you.

Ashlee [00:45:25]:
Exactly. You

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:45:26]:
know? Uh-uh. So, again, these are candid conversations, powerful conversations. And and to be able I mean, again, I get, you know, most most law enforcement people think vulnerability is a weakness. It is the biggest strength that you've got, but you need to know what to do with it. And to recognize that being vulnerable, you're giving a voice to allow other people to be vulnerable too.

Ashley Braund [00:45:58]:
Mhmm.

Jennifer [00:45:59]:
You know,

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:45:59]:
it's like we we need to hold each other's hands through this process. This is not something that you do in isolation. And the law enforcement community in particular is so insular. They rarely have friends outside of the department. So if that disappears when you walk out that door, you're gonna have problems. I mean, I

Ashlee [00:46:23]:
think that's a powerful thing. And I I think it comes back to this whole idea of being vulnerable. But, you know, Ashlee and Catherine, you guys both know you have to have a place in order to to be safe to do that. You know, in order for somebody to be vulnerable, they have to feel safe. And so, again, you know, just you guys creating this beautiful space. And, again, thinking about the families is so powerful.

Jennifer [00:46:48]:
And I wanna piggyback off of that just a little bit just as we are coming to a, you know, a wrap up with things is that I wanna make it clear. Right? So there's 2 kind of a twofold here, and and correct me if I'm wrong. So people can sign up. Like, the the children of first responders, there are camps for that. So that's one thing that's happening, but also people can come and stay here as well.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:47:10]:
Correct. Yes. Okay. So we offer a 2 night stay at no cost. If you're involved in a critical incident, we will extend the number of days that you can stay. We also make the branch available for team building activities for, like, spouse groups that wanna come up and have a mom stay out. And, like, we'll even help you figure out the day care because Kalyn, who's one of our ranch caretakers, is, like, the best grandma ever. I mean, she's just she's amazing.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:47:38]:
She adores children. So we do make that available. Like I said, there is no hidden agenda. We have no religious or political affiliation. There is nothing that you have to do to earn this. This is my way of saying thank you to each and every person who was there for my husband when I could not be.

Jennifer [00:48:04]:
Literally the most inspirational thing I think I've ever

Ashlee [00:48:06]:
I just got goosebumps. That's just beautiful. Well and we will link everything in the show notes. You know, I know we're getting ready to wrap up because of time. I could seriously talk

Ashley Braund [00:48:18]:
to continue to talk

Ashlee [00:48:19]:
for the rest of the day, but I wanna respect everybody's time.

Kathryn Severns Avery [00:48:24]:
And I do wanna tell you it's restoration ranch Colorado. If you just put in Restoration Ranch in your Google search, you'll get an alcohol treatment facility in California. That is not us. And and also I need to clarify, we are not a mental health facility. We have no therapists on staff. Ashlee comes in as a independent provider to facilitate our day camps, but this is strictly a place think of it as like an Airbnb or Vrbo for your family to come and have fun and to bond. That's all we are.

Ashlee [00:49:00]:
Wow.

Ashley Braund [00:49:01]:
Yeah. If I It sounds like so much fun. Yeah. And if I can just pay you back on that too. Yeah. Like, the teen camps are I'm a day counselor. I'm not a mental health counselor. I don't wear my mental health counselor hat when we do those.

Ashley Braund [00:49:13]:
So it is just purely fun bonding. Yeah.

Ashlee [00:49:17]:
You're the cruise director. Like, it's way more fun than that.

Jennifer [00:49:20]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you guys both so so much. Like I said, we're gonna put this on all of our platforms. Anything we get from you guys will automatically go to our social medias as well. We are always here to support you this collaborative process. I think if I can give our listeners a little bit of a heads up, we might have more coming for them. Right? Us 4 have more coming for them, so that's something that's super exciting, but I can't thank you enough.

Jennifer [00:49:44]:
Jennifer, I'll let you say your thank yous, but I can't thank you enough. I'm so inspired, and I cannot wait to see really what comes of all of this. Absolutely. You're welcome. Yes. Thank you. And just never forget that we we always end this way. And if you guys have listened to us, you know what's coming your way.

Jennifer [00:50:00]:
But never forget that when the call hits home, Jennifer and I are here for you. So thank you guys so much, and we're so excited for everything else to come.