When The Call Hits Home | Episode 17: Exploring Parenthood, Blended Families, & Connection

Ashlee [00:00:07]:
Hi. I'm Jennifer Woosley Sailor. I'm a licensed professional clinical counselor and the kid of a cop. And this is the podcast when the call hits home. Hey, everyone. It's Ashley Gethner. I'm a licensed clinical social worker, and I'm also a child of a police officer.

Jennifer [00:00:23]:
Hi. Welcome back to When the Call Hits Home. I'm Jennifer.

Ashlee [00:00:27]:
And I'm Ashley. And today, we have a really special guest. I we I feel like we say that every time, but every person on here is so special. Like

Jennifer [00:00:35]:
Very true.

Ashlee [00:00:36]:
Right? Like, so much to the table, and it's always such an honor to have each and every one of these guests come on. So today we have Erin, and I'm gonna allow her to introduce herself because her I'm gonna say resume. I'm just gonna go resume here. Her resume is intense and amazing and incredible, and so you guys all have to hear what she's about. So take it away, Erin.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:00:54]:
Well, thanks. Thank you for having me. I think this is super cool, and I was really excited when you guys asked. So I'm super excited to be here. Okay. So my resume. Let's see. I'll try to, like, cliff note version it a little bit.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:01:06]:
Professionally, I'm a licensed clinical social worker. I've been a social worker in some capacity now for about 21 years. So I always I always say I actually used my undergrad. So I I started in basic needs. I worked with people experiencing housing issues, homelessness issues, health care issues, and I did all of that for about 7 or 8 years before I went back and got my master's. We went back to get my master's degree, and my original intention in doing that was to work in hospice and palliative care, end of life, which I ended up doing in my internship and I really loved, but it wasn't clinical work. So I kinda did a a a one eighty in grad school and finished up all of my clinical stuff. And when I graduated, I always say that I had, like, my first, like, what the heck do I do with my life moment after spending 1,000 of dollars on grad school.

Ashlee [00:02:02]:
Absolutely. It's how it goes. Right?

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:02:04]:
Yep. So I I knew that I wanted to go the clinical route, but I didn't know what that looked like. So I just kinda took the first job that came my way. But I ended up as a psychiatric social worker at our Milwaukee County Jail for a couple of years, and I really loved that work. I should get a t shirt that says I really loved it, but I would never go back.

Jennifer [00:02:23]:
So I have some of those jobs. Yeah.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:02:26]:
So I I did that. I kind of got I got a really good, well rounded 2 years of experience with clinical social work there. And then I then I became a clinician on partnership. It's collaboration between police officer and mental health clinician. And our team in Milwaukee County is called CART or crisis assessment response team. So I worked with a couple different police departments, Milwaukee Police Department, West Dallas Police Department, and then the Milwaukee County DA as well. And that is a like I said, it's a partnership. It's a dual response program.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:03:04]:
So for anybody in mental health crisis, you would get a response from a police officer, but also a mental health clinician. So we would respond to everything from suicidal subjects to delusions and hallucinations to I'm just having a really bad day. So I did that for 5 years.

Ashlee [00:03:29]:
Wow. Okay.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:03:30]:
I am so then on the personal side of things, my other hat is that I'm also married to law enforcement. He's a sergeant with Milwaukee Police Department. So when he and I got married and when he and I decided to have a baby, one of us needed a flexible schedule that wasn't gonna be my husband.

Ashlee [00:03:49]:
The police didn't give him a

Jennifer [00:03:51]:
flexible schedule.

Ashlee [00:03:51]:
The police didn't give him a flexible schedule.

Jennifer [00:03:52]:
Oh, well,

Ashlee [00:03:52]:
she was a parent.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:03:54]:
Oh, so and and at the time when I was working hard, I was working a police schedule. So but I actually, I had it even worse than my husband did because my partnering officers, I worked with different officers. And depending on what officer I worked with, I worked different shifts. So I might be working, like, a day shift one day and, like, a mid shift in the next day and even, like, a later shift the the next day. So it was kind of all over the place. So at least my husband had a set schedule at that time. So when we had our baby, which she is our baby is now 4 years old, I we decided that I kind of I took 2 months after I came back from maternity leave to try to make it work, and I call it, you know, round hole square peg. Like, no matter no matter how I turned it, it just Yeah.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:04:41]:
Wasn't working. So that was where I left. I am now doing gosh. What am I doing? I I think it's really hard to describe. So I'll, again, I'll try to cliff note version it. I consider myself a therapist. I am a therapist for first responders in the Southeast Wisconsin area. So I see people for long term therapy, kind of traditional therapy.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:05:06]:
I see people for crisis related work. I respond to critical incidents and OISs, and I do I do kind of all the things, many hats that we wear when we work with first responders. And then because I thought that I needed more on my plate. Probably a couple years ago, I went into practice with a couple really great friends of mine who ended up being my business partners now too, where we focus on, like, women and women's health. So I kind of I wear multiple hats, and that's kind of where I see more sometimes our our first responder spouses too. So

Ashlee [00:05:43]:
Which is a really good a really good segue into everything because one of the things in our last episode too we've been talking about so much is this notion of, like, spouses. And where do they go for their support and what do they do? And that encompasses this. Right? Like, you working with women, specifically women's health, I I've seen it tenfold. Like, I'm always like, send oh, like, send them to Erin. Like, they need that help too, but it's so important that we recognize that the spouses also need that support as well, not just the first responders.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:06:15]:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Jennifer [00:06:18]:
So let me just ask again. First of all, what a very impressive resume, and then I'm gonna ask about your personal life. Yeah. I do I do wanna come back to the clinical aspect of things. But I do wanna say, was there any adjustments in it sounds like you kinda had a first responder schedule in that experience. But anything very specific that you noticed in terms of being a spouse of a first responder?

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:06:46]:
Oh, gosh. I feel I think one of the I'm just gonna come out and say it. I think one of the things that we don't really prepare for when we're becoming a spouse of a first responder is kind of an an ultimate feeling of loneliness. You know? If, you know, they're out there and doing their schedule and doing their thing and especially when you introduce kids into that relationship, you know, you oftentimes feel like you're kind of on an island a little bit. Mhmm. Like, how do you how do you manage that connection with your spouse when it's, you know, sometimes just a text message? And how do you manage the things that are happening at home and including everybody?

Ashlee [00:07:25]:
Right.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:07:26]:
I remember distinctly a couple years ago, probably around this time, maybe a little bit closer to Christmas, and my husband being really, really impacted and hurt, by really, really simple things, but, like, by not feeling like he was included in the in the idea of, like, in the gifts, like, purchasing the gifts and getting the gifts, putting down all of the lists of the gifts. What are we gonna get? And, you know, for me, as a spouse, like, and somebody who needs to kind of manage lots of things in the house, I needed to just function. I needed to just get through, you know, crazy. They're stressful. So, you know, there wasn't a lot of of thought of, like, I need to include my husband partly because kind of out of sight, out of mind, but also, like, if, like, do you have time to do it?

Ashlee [00:08:19]:
Right. Right.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:08:20]:
Again, kind of loneliness, but also kind of on an island of, like, I just need to get it done. And sometimes I might not always have, like, I can't always include you in your feelings.

Jennifer [00:08:30]:
You know, I appreciate it.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:08:32]:
Thing coming from a therapist.

Jennifer [00:08:35]:
Well, I think that's different when we're a spouse as opposed to when we're wearing the therapist hat. But I do appreciate you just being so honest about that. I do think that's often an experience that people have in First Responders homes. And you bring up a really good point. You know, I have worked with military members, and they do a great job about deployment and being prepared for deployment and then reintegration and all of those things. They do a fabulous job of that. And what I really hear is, like, in this first responder life, it's it's every day. You know? It's the shift.

Jennifer [00:09:09]:
Listen. I've got to get to the store and get these gifts. I love you. I don't want you not to be a part of it, but this stuff's gotta get done. Mhmm. Yeah. And with moving schedules, that's really hard to include everybody in that. I really appreciate that point, Erin.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:09:23]:
I honestly didn't even until you said that. Right? Like, I didn't think about that. Like, we think so heavily about how is this impacting the spouses, the spouses. Right? Like, my brain didn't stop to think about, well, how do they feel on the other end of that too because they're not included? Like, they are the ones missing out essentially on a lot. And so what does that look like for them? So I I also very much so appreciate that because now my brain is like, woah. Actually, take that step back and recognize too. Right? Like, that first responder is struggling with these. And it's as simple as that.

Jennifer [00:09:56]:
Mhmm. Yeah.

Ashlee [00:09:57]:
I wouldn't even have thought that. You know what I mean? Like, when you my mind. So I do greatly appreciate that. But I think think you hit it on the head, and a lot of people are gonna be able to resonate with the fact of, like, loneliness for sure. Mhmm. It's it's a heavy feeling.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:10:11]:
Yeah. And just kind of overall going through some you know, going through life things that sometimes your spouse isn't there for.

Ashlee [00:10:18]:
Mhmm.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:10:19]:
By nature of their shift and their schedule and their overtime and things like that. I mean, I my pregnancy with my daughter and now, again, my daughter is 4 years old. So I I had a COVID baby. She was born September 2020. So I I found out I was pregnant with her in January, and then the pandemic hit in March. So I had a couple months of, like, normal pregnancy experience, which was the first couple months, which was, like, it was horrible, and I wanted to, like, vomit every day. Mhmm. But then I had a COVID baby, and we know this already.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:10:54]:
Our our first responders didn't they were essential workers in addition to being pregnant during COVID, but also then husband, a a dad that was a first responder, you know, going through those appointments. And I think that was one of the things that I that I do talk about a lot with some of our spouses is, you know, going to those first ultrasounds without your partner, going to the appointments without your partner kind of going through that pregnancy without your partner in in many ways. And I thankfully had some because it was COVID, I actually got to do some work from home. So I actually did get to interact with my husband a little bit more, but I think that was a pretty big dynamic too. Like, you know, you have this kind of glorified image of what all of these rent life changes and challenges are gonna look like for you, but they don't always fit that kind of Hallmark movie cookie cutter cookie cutter world. So

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:11:51]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Can I ask through a spouse's perspective? We've already brought up overtime and things like that, and I know very well the MPD, they could struggle with that. Right? Like, you can really be working a lot at that department. How is a spouse do you did you handle that? Like, do you handle that when you because it's out of your control. Right? But I think that what I've seen naturally as a clinician is spouses being so angry about that and angry then at their significant other even though that significant other cannot control it. Yeah. So what do you like, how did you manage that? Or even if you go clinician route on me here, I'd you know, like, any tools or feedback of what you think about all that?

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:12:34]:
Yeah. You know what? I I think out of all of the different things that affected me as an individual when my husband and I got together and and also just overall, all of the nuances of first responder life outside of the actual job, that was actually the one thing that I I was able to kind of manage okay.

Ashlee [00:12:54]:
Okay.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:12:54]:
And I think part of it was because of my job doing CART. Mhmm. I knew how quickly the day could turn around, and you'd be stuck on a call for, you know so I I remember so, quite a bit of, you know, especially kind of the later shifts where I was supposed to get off at midnight, and I remember not rolling in to my house until 3, 4 o'clock in the morning. So I think for that, for me, that was a really easy transition because I just I knew it. I saw it. I saw it every day. You know, I always say I was I'm the closest to being a cop I never actually wanted to be.

Jennifer [00:13:29]:
Right.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:13:30]:
But, like, I my office was a squad car. My I I wore a vest just like my officer partner did. So I I lived that life for a little bit. So I think that really helped me recognize that, like, you you aren't gonna get off on time. Like, one of my partners jokingly said, like, we always like to go to this same restaurant for lunch if we could grab lunch. And for some reason, it just always happened that every time we would pull up to this restaurant, we would get a call. Like, well, I guess we're not eating lunch, and I guess we're not eating there ever again because it's starting to start like, we're we're starting a pattern here. So I just I got that a little bit just from my own professional experience.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:14:13]:
So that was really easy. However, I will I'm gonna put my wife and mom hat on again. So this past December, my husband was promoted to sergeant. And so he's been on the job for at that time, he was on the job for a little almost 20 years. And almost our entire dating relationship and our marriage, up until that point, he had been working kind of like a a second shift or like a modified second to 3rd. They call them power shifts. And so I had always known, like, evenings, when he was working, he wasn't home. And I'd like something that I that I got used to.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:14:57]:
We kinda figured it out. So shortly before he got promoted, he had been on the day order or day day list for quite a long time, and he just never took his day shift hours. And he finally decided, like, this might be my only opportunity to see the light of day. I'm gonna take day shift. So he in 10 months before he got promoted, he went to day shift. So he was on day shift for 10 months. Almost a 25 year career, day shift for 10 months. That was the hardest one of the hardest transitions that I have ever done as a spouse and as a as a mom co parenting with a law enforcement officer.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:15:36]:
I think I thought, like, when he goes to day shift, like, he's he'll be home at night. He's gonna be home for dinner. We can actually have, like, this normal, like, semblance of, like, normal family life. He can help with, like, bedtimes and things like that. And because of so much overtime, that so often did not happen.

Ashlee [00:15:57]:
Oh my god.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:15:58]:
Those 10 months out of all the years that we've been together, those 10 months were probably the only time that I ever had, like, a I really hate your job moment. Never home. You're stuck on so, like, you're gone during the day. You're stuck on so much overtime. And when you get home, what you have to offer us is so little that I like like, are you even here?

Jennifer [00:16:22]:
Right. Oh my goodness. That is hard, especially when you have those expectations of, like, yay. Like, we can sit down and have dinner together, and it just not be that experience. That's really tough. Yeah. And even with your background of, like, I know how this works and still it can be hard. You know, I I appreciate, Erin, because I think it just gives light.

Jennifer [00:16:44]:
It's hard being a first responder spouse. Like, even when we're got it figured out, even when we know, you know, how the sausage is made, it's still a difficult thing to try to navigate.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:16:56]:
Yes. Yeah. For sure.

Jennifer [00:16:59]:
So I guess I'll just kinda ask then a clinical question then because, again, some of your work with first responders. What do you see in terms of, like, some of the needs of first responder families?

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:17:12]:
Gosh. I think I think grace.

Jennifer [00:17:16]:
And that's beautiful. Well, we all need that. Yeah. So let's put that there for sure.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:17:22]:
You know, you're you're it's not gonna look pretty. It, like, there is, again, kind of going back to that cookie cutter response, like, I think family life in general, especially in this day and age, doesn't always look pretty. It's always pretty messy. Like, we've we've all got, like, you know, we we have 44 human beings that live in our house and we're and even the 4 year old is going in in opposite directions sometimes. So Mhmm. You know, family life in general isn't pretty these days, but then you incorporate a a profession, that takes more than just, like, a 9 to 5. Right. And then it it really gets kind of ugly sometimes.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:18:00]:
So I think just grace grace for the fit like, from the community looking in on these families and, like, how like, what are you doing? But also for ourselves, you know, that that we're not you know, the holidays aren't always gonna look awesome and that, you know, that we might have to take 2 cars to the football game because you have to you were able to get 2 hours off, but you have to go into work after that. And, you know, all of I think just all of the little nuances, just kind of reminding ourselves that, like, we can we can do this, but we also have to have to just let ourselves

Ashlee [00:18:38]:
I

Jennifer [00:18:38]:
don't know.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:18:38]:
It kinda sounds this is pretty critical, but, like, let ourselves grieve what what we thought was gonna be too.

Jennifer [00:18:45]:
I appreciate that in terms of reflectioning about expectations. You know, this is what I wanted. This is what I thought it was gonna be and recognize, oh, we can still feel that. We can feel disappointed. We can feel lonely. But then in that place of, like, okay. Now now what? Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer [00:19:03]:
Beautifully said. Beautifully

Ashlee [00:19:04]:
said. That wraps around to what you just said too. Like, it makes that good point of in those 10 months. Right? Like, for how long everything was consistent in a way, and then all of a sudden, that changes. And that happens a lot. That happens within departments. That happens a lot for families. I've heard of, you know, family members getting promoted, and then they're on 3rd shift now.

Ashlee [00:19:26]:
And and kids struggling to sleep because now all of a sudden their parent, who they're who they're used to being home and putting them to bed is no longer doing that.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:19:33]:
Yeah.

Ashlee [00:19:33]:
You know? And, like, how that really can impact the system as a whole. But just like you said, like, you I think each time that happens, you go through that process. Right? Like, in in grievance is a way to put it in a sense, right, of, like, now everything's changing again of what I know, and and that can happen several times throughout a first responder's career. Mhmm.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:19:55]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer [00:19:55]:
So

Ashlee [00:19:56]:
it's incredibly hard.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:19:57]:
I mean, for example so, like, my husband was again, he's always kind of worked like a a second shift or a modified kind of second to 3rd. And so when we had my daughter, he worked that second or modified third at they call it late power, so I think he was working from 7 PM to 3 AM.

Ashlee [00:20:15]:
Mhmm.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:20:15]:
And we again, I I need all these, like, slogans and t shirts, but, like, we made it to make it.

Jennifer [00:20:23]:
Erin, are you gonna be our merch gal?

Ashlee [00:20:25]:
I'm gonna say. I'm

Jennifer [00:20:26]:
like, oh my gosh.

Ashlee [00:20:27]:
We can make this a thing. Like

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:20:31]:
We managed to make it two and a half years of my daughter's life avoiding day care, but not without the expense of my husband's sleep. So, you know, sleep wasn't great anyway. You you ask an officer to work a second or a third shift and you already know that sleep is gonna be an issue, but then you incorporate a newborn into the mix and, like, it's a recipe for disaster. And we know how important sleep is. Like, it it's, you know, it is it is the hormone reset button. Like, we need sleep in order to function, and a law enforcement officer especially needs sleep in order to function. So but we went the first kind of

Ashlee [00:21:11]:
two and a half years

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:21:11]:
of my daughter's life with my husband really sacrificing his sleep in order to avoid day care and in order to avoid you know, for me, you know, everybody's different, but I really thought that those few years of my daughter's life are really important for us to impact her and not really, you know, day care and and other professionals. But, again, because of that, my my husband kind of kind of paid with his sleep. Now we went you know, now in between all of that, he goes to day shift, and now he's back on late power as a sergeant. The difference is, though, is that now my daughter is in day care. Now we we thought that it was really important, you know, for her social skills and and interactions to go back. So now he's in this place where he doesn't have to worry about it. So that was the one thing when we were transitioning back to a late power shift this time, which is your sleep isn't going to be affected, and, like, we're gonna do our own thing. Like, we got this.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:22:10]:
You just work, and you go to sleep and and wake up when you need to, and you don't have to worry about about sleep deprivation.

Ashlee [00:22:17]:
Yeah. Oof. That's a crucial topic, sleep. I feel like feel like we can have you back on because I know you do a lot with that too. That's a whole other episode, right, of, like, the

Jennifer [00:22:27]:
sleep and

Ashlee [00:22:27]:
how that affects us.

Jennifer [00:22:29]:
So, Erin, sleep is something that you talk a lot about.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:22:32]:
Yeah. Yeah. Prioritize.

Jennifer [00:22:35]:
Because it's so interesting that you say that whenever I interview somebody for the first time in terms of an intake, I always ask about sleep. And I I don't think now I'm gonna get on a soapbox. I don't think as a culture, we respect sleep enough. Yeah. And then I think on top of that, like you said, when people have high stress jobs, you know, you can't just turn your brain off or, you know, when you're not even on the cycle of sleep in terms of your working during the evening and, are trying to sleep when the lights out. So, yeah, We'll have to have you back and talk more about it because it is imperative.

Ashlee [00:23:14]:
She kinda skipped on her resume, that she does, like, a ton of trainings and stuff, you know. And she's really good with a lot of different topics. So we are gonna have to steal her for more. But one thing that I do know. Right? Yeah. You've mentioned it before, so I'm gonna call it out. There's 4 people living in your home. Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:23:33]:
So do you wanna give us a little bit of a breakdown on what that looks like? Because I think we've talked about this before just connecting on this notion of blended families. Mhmm.

Jennifer [00:23:43]:
And

Ashlee [00:23:44]:
it's a really big topic. It's something that I find super important when we're talking about first responder world because we do know, sadly. Right? We do know that divorce rates among first responders are incredibly high. And then we are looking at a lot of blended families, which can be such beautiful things.

Jennifer [00:23:59]:
It can.

Ashlee [00:23:59]:
And then they also come with challenges. Right? And so if you don't mind talking a little bit to which you're comfortable about some of that for you and what that looks like.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:24:07]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So I became a stepmom before I became a mom. So when my husband and I decided to commit and when we decided to get married, he, along with him, kinda came a little bit little buddy. And I got Zach as my stepson. I gosh. I feel like it's all a blur now, but I think he was probably around 9 or 10 years old at the time when when we entered each other's lives. So kind of a challenging time from a from a even from a child developmental stage, but a right developmental stage and all of the things.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:24:42]:
Right? But also just a really challenging time to be a stepmom. And to be a stepmom, you know, co parenting with a first responder who, again, we already know that that schedule is is not very forgiving. What was it like for me to be a stepmom in general and all the challenges that that comes with? Because those also can make you feel like you're on an island sometimes. But then what was it like to be a stepmom, but almost kinda like a stepmom slash mom to a kid with a dad who wasn't wasn't always there at, you know, school pickup times and, you know, club drop off times and sports, all the things, all the things.

Ashlee [00:25:27]:
You're like, it's flooding back. It's all flooding back.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:25:30]:
Back to me now. When he got his license and, and access to

Ashlee [00:25:33]:
a car, that was one of

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:25:34]:
the best days of both of our lives. Absolutely. Right? So, yeah, I you know, co parenting with, with my 4 year old with my husband and but co parenting with my stepson with my husband too. A challenge. Yeah.

Ashlee [00:25:49]:
Well, you make a good point. I didn't stop to think about that. Right? If we're talking about schedules and everything we have already discussed, and then he you know, you became a stepmom, and I think there's, rightfully so, always some adjustments that happen when new people are entering into lives, and then you have to figure out co parenting. And I could see that as a coming into a a family with a police officer. Right? Like, you had to step up in a lot of ways, I'm sure, to help him be the parent he could be.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:26:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And then I was as you were saying, I was kinda thinking, I don't think every first responder family has this ability, but I I think that there's always one of us. Like, there's always one of us, whether it's your or your husband or or you as the spouse who has to have some flexibility in your work schedule. At, like, it just take first responder out of it. Like, there's always gotta be 1. True.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:26:43]:
Right?

Jennifer [00:26:44]:
Yeah.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:26:45]:
Like, if if there's rigidity in one of our schedules, like, I can't I can't get off, I can't get off on time, you know, all of this thing. Like, the the spouse has to has to step in, especially when there are children involved. And, unfortunately, I think in first responder world, that's almost always the spouse that's not the law enforcement officer. You know, when and when when they're off, when they're on vacation, it's great. Like, I when my husband has 10 day vacations, like, he's actually like, he's got, like, 7 or 8 days right now. I'm, like, I'm doing all the things. I'm gonna go get a pedicure, and I'm gonna go do this Yes.

Jennifer [00:27:19]:
And, like,

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:27:22]:
oh, you wanna connect and you wanna have, like, you wanna have some us? Oh, okay. We'll we'll figure out how to fit that in too.

Ashlee [00:27:31]:
So fair. That's

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:27:33]:
so fair. Yeah. But, yeah, I think the responsibility, especially when there is a stepchild involved to the spouse who is the step parent, you know, it it's there's so many different versions of step parenting. Yeah. Right? That that step parent, especially in first responder world, doesn't get to hold that stepchild at an arm's length of distance to say, you're not really mine, so I don't really have any responsibility to you. Like, I as as I have responsibility to my husband, I also have responsibility to my stepson too.

Jennifer [00:28:09]:
Beautifully said, Erin. And I think, you know, more and more just seeing the first responder family instead of seeing a first responder and having more conversations like this. Because what I hear in this is that, you know, we are 4 different individuals in this family, and yet how we function as a family has to be in this way with togetherness, which is, you know, you're my bonus kid. And if you got practice, I'm the adult. I will get you to practice. And, you know, the other aspects of that too in terms of flexibility and things. So I don't know. I think that's such a great point.

Jennifer [00:28:46]:
And a blended family is not one size fits all, and it looks different for a lot of different people. But I definitely hear that importance of flexibility, especially talking about first responder families.

Ashlee [00:28:58]:
Mhmm.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:28:58]:
Yeah. And I think too, you know, as a step parent, what what do you want your boundaries to look like in that role?

Ashlee [00:29:06]:
Yes. Yeah.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:29:09]:
The especially co parenting as a step parent with a first responder, there's oftentimes, you know, kind of feelings of, like, I don't really have a choice. I have to do these things. But if you have enough and and healthy, good, you know, communication with with your spouse, like, you can still establish boundaries. You can still say, like, I'm I'm here, and I'm I'm ready to step up, and I'm ready to do all of these things as a step parent. And, you know, because I love you and because I respect you in our relationship and our marriage and all the things, but, like, here's where I don't feel comfortable, and here's where I do need you to figure out where to step up. Like, I honor your job and I honor your shift and your schedule, but I still need you to step up.

Ashlee [00:29:51]:
That's so

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:29:53]:
Very powerful.

Jennifer [00:29:54]:
And I think it's sometimes hard that we feel like we don't have that voice.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:29:59]:
Yeah. Yeah. I I do think that for sure, Jennifer. Like, I think I think it's getting a little bit better now, but I think, like, this invisible thing that kind of came on us as spouses when we married first responders said, you're going to run the household. You're going to figure out where the kids go. You're gonna do all of these things. And I feel like that in general, again, take first responder out of it. I think, let's just be honest, I think women do actually run the world.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:30:26]:
So, like, we have kind of all of these, like, really invisible weights that we all kind of carry. Mhmm. But you throw a first responder into it and, you know, in clinical world, when we're when we're working with first responders, and this is rather crass, so I apologize, but, like, you know, we're gonna give them all the reasons as to why they might disassociate and all the reasons why they might have, you know, anger and anxiety and depression and all of that stuff. But then we also say, like, but it doesn't give you the excuse to check out. It doesn't give you the excuse to not try. And I think that especially in first responder families too and co parenting that, like, I still need you to be a dad. Like, it it might look different. Your dating might look different because of your job, but I still need you to be a dad, and I still need you to be a husband.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:31:15]:
What that looks like, we both have to agree to, but but, like, you don't get to just check out.

Ashlee [00:31:22]:
Yeah. What a great point. What a great point. And I know that you and I, we we work a lot together, and so we do say that. Like, in our trainings, we do give them a 101 reasons, right, to be like, oh, this is why I do what I do, and this is why. But I think that it's so important, like you're saying, for everyone listening right now to recognize, like, it's not an excuse. And it's not an excuse to not go get help, and it's not an excuse to not change things if you need to.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:31:48]:
Yeah.

Ashlee [00:31:48]:
You know what I mean? Like, and for sure the cool thing about working with first responders, you guys can agree or disagree for me at least, is to be honest and open like that. Most of the time, they're open to that, like, hard truth feedback. Yeah.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:32:00]:
Yeah.

Jennifer [00:32:01]:
I would agree with their it's definitely shoot it to me straight, give it to me. I think with what you're saying in that too, you know, communication, obviously. And I just think and I talk a lot with clients about this about really you have to front load. You know, once we're disassociated, which, you know, is just a fancy way of saying, like, I have left the building. Like, my body is here, but my brain is a 1000000 miles away, is to come to a place and having conversations ahead of time. Yeah. You know, I this is such a silly metaphor, but knock on wood. I've never been in a building that's caught on fire.

Jennifer [00:32:37]:
I hope that never happens. But if this house catches on fire, I know what to do because I did fire drills with no fire. You know, it's that whole thing of, like, having these conversations. We are gonna have super hard days. We are gonna be angry. We're gonna be anxious. We're gonna be all those things. And so why don't we have a plan for that? And I love this.

Jennifer [00:32:58]:
Like, you're on vacation. I have to prioritize my self care when you're on vacation, and we will make time for us in that as well. So I just think that that's important too to think about. You're right. There's there's no excuse for that. So here's what we're gonna do. Like, we gotta have a plan.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:33:14]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I I mean, I think that this is kind of at the, yeah, this is at the root of every healthy marriage is communication, but I think communication is so, like, even like, double that when you when you incorporate one of those adults being a first responder.

Ashlee [00:33:31]:
Mhmm.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:33:32]:
You know? And and taking the time to communicate effectively. You know? Like, I I mean, I can't tell you how many times that, like, we end up in knock down, drag out, like, arguments, not really knock down, drag out. I you met my husband. Knock down, drag out really just isn't a thing. People don't even understand that he's actually a cop when they see him outside of uniform.

Ashlee [00:33:50]:
This is true.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:33:51]:
This is true. I was like,

Ashlee [00:33:53]:
oh, like, I love it because I'm like, it's so cool. It's so different.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:33:57]:
But we definitely end up in, like, verbal conflict when, you know, when when we forget that communication is really important. You know? And then it can be just as simple as, like, well, I thought you were taking her. Now you're you're taking her to day care today. Or, like, there's there's towels in the in the dryer to be folded. You know? Just all of the all of the little nuances of living together in the same house and communicating that more effectively with each other.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:34:23]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Well, you wear so many different hats, which is all incredible. I think people need to know that you are available to them if they if they do wanna talk to you about other things too. But I guess whichever way you wanna take this is broad. This is really broad. But would there be any, like, tools or tips or anything else that you want to give or stories you would want you wanna share with our listeners in terms of, I guess, whichever role you wanna pick, honestly. Right? Like, that's the cool thing about you is you have so many that you get to kinda pick what what you what you wanna share.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:34:58]:
I think one of the things that I like, it it kind of it it's like the umbrella. It's the thing. Every time I think about, like, co parenting with a first responder, it's the thing that I always keep coming back to. And so my stepson is a great kid. Like, he's not he doesn't do all the normal teenage, like, rebellion stuff. Like, he's he just made over a 100 probably almost a 150 cookies yesterday for his football banquet tonight. So, like, he's just a great kid. But sometimes he's a great kid who does some stupid stuff.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:35:29]:
Right? Because that's what kids do, and they're learning. I think one of the things when when I think about co parenting with a first responder, this is the thing that impacts our family the most is, you know, my husband has unfortunately dealt with some some kids in the community that aren't the best. Right? Like, that's what police officers do. They they unfortunately oftentimes see the worst of the worst in humanity.

Ashlee [00:35:54]:
Mhmm.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:35:54]:
So he's dealt with some teenagers in our community that are not awesome. I think because of that, because of his job, it oftentimes how that kind of comes into play in our house is, like, when when Zach does something as a teenager that maybe we need to redirect or we need to talk about or we maybe even need some consequences for, it oftentimes gets to a point where, like, my husband thinks, and we've had conversations about this, he's not those kids.

Ashlee [00:36:25]:
Mhmm.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:36:25]:
He's not those kids that I see in the community on a regular basis when I'm at work. So if he's not those kids, then it's okay. We're just gonna gonna let it slide a little bit. Maybe we won't hold Zach responsible for his actions as much. Maybe we won't incorporate consequences as much. You know? And and I think for me as a co parenting mom, again, and stepmom on top of that, I think that's where a lot of frustrations come in for me. Like, no. He's not that kid that you just had to arrest in the community.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:36:56]:
You're right. But he's our kid, and he still needs consequences for his actions. So how do we do that? And I think that, for me, again, kind of the the overarching that I've seen where where my husband's job really has impacted parenting and co parenting.

Jennifer [00:37:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's that's hard because you're dealing with such extremes in that stuff too. Yeah.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:37:22]:
For sure. And I think from law enforcement perspective, it can be opposite. Like, I remember listening to both of you

Ashlee [00:37:28]:
Just about to say that. Like, you

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:37:30]:
know, sometimes it's the opposite. Like, because they work with some pretty hard kids in the community, they don't want you to be that kid, so they're even more strict on you.

Ashlee [00:37:39]:
There's no

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:37:40]:
that are you listening?

Jennifer [00:37:41]:
Spirits. Yeah.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:37:42]:
That is just

Jennifer [00:37:44]:
more more my experience for sure.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:37:47]:
So I remember listening to you both saying that. I'm like, gosh. That isn't what's happening in our house. That that, like and I I wouldn't want that to happen in our house, but, god, if we could just get a little little piece of that, that would be great.

Ashlee [00:38:00]:
It's all about that balance. Yeah. It is. You have to find that middle ground. You don't wanna be too extreme on one end or the other with that. Mhmm.

Jennifer [00:38:08]:
Well and I don't wanna speak for this situation by any means, but I do think sometimes it's hard when you work with certain like, seeing kids out in the community and knowing, like, they just need a loving adult.

Ashlee [00:38:21]:
Mhmm.

Jennifer [00:38:22]:
And so to go home and just, well, that's what I wanna be is just this loving adult and loving adults give consequences, but that's not very fun. And I think I think there was a dynamic in my family, you know, with my parents where I think for my dad, it kinda got old being the bad cop, you know, like with your kids. Like, why am I the one that's always having to set the punishment? And so I think, actually, to your point, like, it's this whole idea about balance, like finding some balance in it all. I have a, like I don't know how to even ask this question, and it's kind of a deep question, Erin, but, and I wanna respect your time. So, but, you know, being a mother now and, you know, Ashley and I are here because we're both kids of first responders. When you think about, you know, a 4 year old and parenting and maybe kind of cliches that you see and, you know, with your first responders that you work with, what's kind of our priority for you in terms of parenting?

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:39:27]:
It's I think the cool thing about being a therapist is that my professional ethics and morals line up with my personal ethics.

Ashlee [00:39:35]:
And Mhmm. Mhmm.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:39:36]:
I think one of the things that I do in therapy with folks that I work with, but also something that's really important to me personally and in our household is just connection.

Jennifer [00:39:44]:
Mhmm.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:39:45]:
It's you know, again, we already recognize the barrier to the shift in the schedule, but it doesn't mean that we can't still connect with each other. It doesn't mean that he can't still connect with our kids. You know? So what does that look like? You know? And I think one of the things that even as you were kind of describing, you know, kind of bad cop parents For a minute, I I thought of 2 different things that that, like, I think are are some some of our newer generation of cops are are experiencing more than our older generation of cop, and that that's this concept of conflict avoidance. Mhmm. Like, all day every day, I have no choice other than to be in conflict. And, hopefully, it's safe conflict, but I have no choice other to to do that. But I kinda tap out at the end of my shift. So when I get home and, you know, maybe my spouse is, you know, needs to talk about something really important, it it kind of cones into that concept avoidance place, which is, like, I'm tapped out.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:40:42]:
I don't wanna talk now. And then it often turns into, well, when do you wanna talk? That, you know, we would never have time to talk about these things. We need to get these answers, you know, all of that. So conflict avoidance, but then also this this decision fatigue.

Ashlee [00:40:56]:
Mhmm.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:40:58]:
Again, all day every day, I'm I'm at work, and I'm making all of these decisions, and I have to do all of these things. So by the time I get home, you know, I I don't really wanna decide what to do for dinner or where to go out for to eat. But I also don't really have the capacity or the bandwidth to talk about, you know, where are kids gonna go to elementary school or, you know, who's gonna pick up Zach from football practice this weekend? You know, things like that. So I think those two things really kind of impact that that connection too.

Jennifer [00:41:29]:
Mhmm.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:41:31]:
And, you know, one of the things that my husband and I have kind of said, like, you know, I'm I'm acutely tuned into when he's tuned out. Right? Like, I think a lot of us spouses are in general.

Ashlee [00:41:41]:
Of course. You

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:41:42]:
know, but one of the things that and we're pretty open and blunt in our relationship. So one of the things that we've just kind of said to each other at times, but I think it comes from a little bit more from me to him, which is, like, you're not here. You know, you're here, but you're not. So I need you to go do whatever you need to go do to get it right and then come back. Alright. It's interesting that when we talk about the idea of connection that we're actually asking you to disconnect for a little bit, get yourself right, get yourself healthy, figure out how to create some space for yourself so you can come back and connect with us, because the time that we have with you is so limited. That we want that time to be We

Jennifer [00:42:26]:
want your present. Yeah.

Ashlee [00:42:29]:
Yeah.

Jennifer [00:42:30]:
Oh, that's powerfully said, Erin. Powerfully said. Thank you for answering that weird question that

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:42:35]:
I asked.

Ashlee [00:42:36]:
I thought it was good. No. I thought it was really good. And thank you so much for even being on here today. Like I said, we would love to have you back. I think that you cover so much. You're incredible in all facets. And so this hopefully isn't your last time being on because I think we have a lot more things we can cover and pick your brain about, and I would love that.

Ashlee [00:42:55]:
But I sincerely appreciate your time today in being on and sharing with When the Call Hits Home community. I think it's just gonna hit a lot of spouses, and we needed to do that. We also really needed to open the door to talk about blended families. May I think that's a really big deal, and we're gonna have to keep doing some more of that as well. So thank you.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:43:13]:
Thank you.

Jennifer [00:43:14]:
It was was a absolute pleasure to meet you.

Erin Quandt-Knapinski [00:43:17]:
Thank you. It's good to meet you.

Ashlee [00:43:19]:
Awesome. Alright, you guys. Well, you kinda know the deal already that when the call hits home, Jennifer and I are always here for you. Thank you again to our guest, Erin, and we can't wait for the next episode. So thank you.