Episode 21: The Unseen Needs and Everyday Battles

Jennifer [00:00:07]:
Hi. I'm Jennifer Woosley Saylor. I'm a licensed professional clinical counselor and the kid of a cop. And this is the podcast when the call hits home.

Ashlee [00:00:16]:
Hey, everyone. It's Ashlee Gethner. I'm a licensed clinical social worker, and I'm also a child of a police officer.

Jennifer [00:00:24]:
So welcome back to When the Call Hits Home. I'm Jennifer.

Ashlee [00:00:28]:
And I'm Ashlee.

Jennifer [00:00:30]:
And it's kinda nice. It's just you and I today, Ashlee. We've had

Ashlee [00:00:34]:
some days.

Jennifer [00:00:35]:
We've had some great guests, and we just decided it would be you and I today.

Ashlee [00:00:41]:
Yeah. I do have some exciting news. Like, I've had quite a few people reach out talking about our

Jennifer [00:00:47]:
last two

Ashlee [00:00:47]:
episodes, which I I mean, I love. So, like, I didn't realize how many people haven't heard of moral injury before us.

Jennifer [00:00:57]:
Ain't that wild? Like, it's it is hard sometimes when I've I don't know if you relate to this, but being in the field of, like, making these assumptions of, like, oh, this is a language that everyone speaks because I'm speaking it every day. And then you're like, oh, wait. Hold on a second.

Ashlee [00:01:12]:
A %. Like, I was like, you've so many people have been like, I've never heard of this before. I learned so much from that episode. And then also our last episode too, just being like, oh my gosh. Like, I didn't know this foundation existed. You know what I mean? Just Mhmm. Our bringing so much to light,

Jennifer [00:01:28]:
which is

Ashlee [00:01:29]:
really good feeling. It's incredible, but also just so thankful for these people willing to come on and share.

Jennifer [00:01:34]:
Yeah. I mean, I think that's something that amazes me. You know, I just kind of sent a little email to Mikayla, and I was so pleasantly surprised that, you know, people willing to give up their time. So it meant a lot, and especially how they shared and shared such a remarkable story.

Ashlee [00:01:53]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And their story was about firefighters. And one thing that you and I have been talking a lot about is this notion of the fires that have recently happened and everything that all these firefighters are going through in Los Angeles and I mean, wildfires everywhere. Right? Like, it's

Jennifer [00:02:08]:
just a

Ashlee [00:02:09]:
stressful time. And I think it's a good time for you to share your story about something that you heard and you learned. I think our audience needs to kinda hear it.

Jennifer [00:02:17]:
Well, I appreciate that little softball, like, toss to me. So I was listening to a podcast, and that's why we're here because I listen to podcasts. And they were just offering, like, different ways to help out with people who sadly, like, lost their home. And how do you support, specifically, obviously, our firefighting first responders in a situation like this? And they had shared that they kinda did some research, and a lot of people were bringing the firehouses, bottles of water, snacks, different things like that. And so the person doing the podcast has some ties to the military and knew kinda what military members often like to get in their care packages and kinda followed suit and ended up bringing the first responders to firefighters, bringing them Monster Energy drinks and different things like that. And she kinda had a nice laugh because she was like, you know, I opened my trunk and they first see the water bottles of water, and they're like, oh, thank you for bringing these.

Ashlee [00:03:24]:
Oh, great. And then she

Jennifer [00:03:24]:
was like, oh, I also have some cases of Monster Energy. And she was like, they were like kids on Christmas morning. Like, yes.

Ashlee [00:03:31]:
Like, we'll take those.

Jennifer [00:03:31]:
I love this flavor. And so recognizing, you know, people really mean well when they're, you know, doing a good deed, like, supplying people that are in their communities as first responders with helpful things like water, but sometimes also kinda meeting anybody. But in our case, you know, we're talking about first responders on what their real needs are. And it just was a little nugget that I was listening to, and I was like, oh my gosh. I wanna talk to Ashlee about this, and you're brave enough to push record and let me tell that story. There's no judgment about people drinking energy drinks or anything like that. But I think just this reality of, like, I think our first responders are fueled by caffeinated beverages. When you have long shifts.

Jennifer [00:04:19]:
And, again, when you're responding to a crisis that's not being wrapped up by the end of your shift. And, you know, Ashlee, I don't know. You can speak to, obviously, your research on first responders responding to civil unrest. Right? Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:04:34]:
Yeah. How it impacted them.

Jennifer [00:04:36]:
Yeah. Exactly. And these aren't things that just, you know, you clock in and clock out of. You don't know how long you'll have to stay at the station or the firehouse on situations like this. You need caffeine. You need, you know, nicotine. You need different stimulants, you know, to help you continue to respond.

Ashlee [00:04:59]:
Yeah. I feel like when I hear you when I heard you say this story, right, my my whole self was torn because my clinical side, right, like, instantly goes bad. Right? Like, we shouldn't be drinking those things. We shouldn't be pushing this stuff because we know what it can do to our body. But then as you were talking about it, I'm like, this whole perspective opened up for me. And I was like, wait a minute, though. If that is what they need in that moment, who am I to say don't?

Jennifer [00:05:31]:
Right? Right.

Ashlee [00:05:33]:
But I think this generates a great conversation because when you and I clinically teach people about what it's like to be a first responder and the biology of the brain and what happens to us in high stress situations. What I know I focus in on a lot is this notion of when our amygdala signals and we go into fight or flight and we're in a high stress situation, everything else shuts down. Right? So that we can confront whatever's going on. One of the biggest things we kinda neglect to focus on with that is that our whole digestive system also goes underactivated to conserve energy. Right? And so when I hear that stuff, of course, my brain instantly goes, that's bad for you because I'm always pushing this notion of the biology of the brain and the human body and how it responds. And if we're constantly on those things, but we're also constantly being engaged in high stress situations, we're just pumping ourselves with negative stress hormones. And then these horrible things that are in these drinks, right, or these products as well. So I I think that's where I'm I'm very torn on this now because all of a sudden, my life is like, that is what I've lived by and died by as a clinician.

Ashlee [00:06:42]:
But my brain now is like, well, how true, though? Like, do we stop to ask them? What do you really need? And in those moments, if that's what keeps them going and keeps them, one, alive, two, saving other people, like, I mean, it's a fair it's a fair thing. I can't I don't wanna be the first one to take it away because I know all my first responders love Monster.

Jennifer [00:07:04]:
Right. Right. Well and I, again, I I appreciate you, like, that perspective because similar. Right? Like, it's the, oh, you know, having that much caffeine. And if we're talking about you're feeling anxious, that's just giving gas to that fire in terms of anxiety and your nervousness and your nervous system in terms of, like, in the biology and what you're speaking of. And yet, you know, what are you asking your body to do when you're responding to these things? And and when you're on a long shift having to stay awake. In graduate school, I work the the graveyard shift, you know, the night shift. And if, you know, I didn't have a caffeinated drink before I started my shift.

Jennifer [00:07:48]:
There was no way I was gonna stay awake. Like, that just wasn't gonna happen. And so, again, sometimes it's meeting yourself on what the need is for the time and, you know, everything in moderation, obviously. Unfortunately, I've worked with people that were having heart palpitations because of the amount

Ashlee [00:08:04]:
Right.

Jennifer [00:08:05]:
Of energy drinks that we're drinking. And so, I mean, that is something that you have to explore and recognize. But, you know, part of our conversation today was also recapping some of our podcasts because we have gotten some great feedback from our listeners. Thank you again, listeners. But I remember, you know, Catherine kinda mentioning, like, this idea of, like, admitting that you're human as a first responder. I don't know if you remember her kinda mentioning that. And I think there's a little bit of that here too of, like, I'm not gonna be able to fight whatever I need to fight with just h two o. Like, that's just not you know? Like, we we have to have something.

Jennifer [00:08:46]:
And I see that sometimes. You know, I meet with my clients, and we'll meet virtually. And, I'll see them kinda push their self off screen a little bit when I know that they're obviously vaping. And I and I'm pretty quick to say, like, you can do that in front of me. Like, we're virtual. I'm not gonna be impacted by your vapes. But also that, you know, if that is something that you're doing, then let's just be honest that we're doing that. There's no judgment in that decision to do that, and I wanna make sure, you know, there's no judgment in drinking energy drinks.

Jennifer [00:09:27]:
I am a little worried that we might have lost our sponsor of Monster and how we started this podcast. So, I mean, if they wanted out.

Ashlee [00:09:35]:
They are out.

Jennifer [00:09:36]:
If they wanted to give us money to advertise their product, I I'm not gonna say no. But I I yeah. I think it is this, like just the reality that we're not you know, this isn't I'm gonna use an old leave it to beaver. I don't even know if people are gonna get that reference. But, you know, that that this isn't we're not living a world where we have to be perfect. Yeah. You know, of course, we'd wanna just have our eight glasses of water a day and not be all we need. But, you know, if you have to have a cup of coffee at 04:00 in the afternoon to get you through, then, like, that's part of it.

Jennifer [00:10:14]:
If you need nicotine because of what it offers you in those moments, like, again, I think if we can come to this place of just being honest, that's gonna help us in the long run.

Ashlee [00:10:24]:
I agree with that. I think that I I'm reflecting now I'm trying to reflect as a child of a first responder. And what I my poor dad. I just let his stuff out. Like, he's probably so over it.

Jennifer [00:10:38]:
You did get that signed consent form from him, though, right before you Yeah. Right? Not on this episode. Sorry, dad.

Ashlee [00:10:44]:
No. But there is a reality that I remember seeing him being so tired. Right? And,

Jennifer [00:10:51]:
like Yeah.

Ashlee [00:10:53]:
Always this especially towards the end of his career. It would be coffee in the morning, a cup or two, or his big Oh, the the big milk. Cups. Right?

Jennifer [00:11:02]:
Like Yeah. Sounds good.

Ashlee [00:11:04]:
The big cups of coffee that he would leave to work with and what have you, and then it's energy drinks all day. And I remember getting to the point where I would be like, dad, man, why do you need all that? Like, that's a lot. And I promise you, I said to him, dad, you're gonna have a heart attack. Like, that is a lot. That is a lot. That is a lot of energy drinks. That is a lot of caffeine. If you're feeling this way, is there something wrong? Like you know? And I thought that to myself all the time all the time because, of course, god love him.

Ashlee [00:11:37]:
You know? No. Are you stop it. I'm fine. It's fine. Right? That normal typical response. And then guess who has a massive heart attack?

Jennifer [00:11:47]:
Well, I knew that when you was I was like, oh, man. You really predicted that.

Ashlee [00:11:51]:
Yeah. And Mhmm. And, again, right, like, thank God he survived because that was a wildest day

Jennifer [00:11:56]:
of my life. But Of course.

Ashlee [00:11:58]:
I I know that it's not always about that stuff either. There's a lot of genetic factors and things

Jennifer [00:12:05]:
like that.

Ashlee [00:12:05]:
Of course.

Jennifer [00:12:06]:
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Ashlee [00:12:08]:
I think when I look at it, though, I'm not saying it's always the monster and the caffeine. It's the high stress of the job that starts to burn them out that they think they need it so much.

Jennifer [00:12:17]:
Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:12:18]:
Right? Like and even as a child, I saw that, which is wild. But it's this notion, like, what is the statistic? I should fact check myself here because I think it's changed. But is it five to seven years of a life expectancy after retirement? Isn't it, like, less now? I've heard three

Jennifer [00:12:34]:
to five years of a first time. Just have the old statistics. I haven't looked at the recent data when it comes to that.

Ashlee [00:12:41]:
Like it went down, which, jeez, help us. Right?

Jennifer [00:12:44]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:12:45]:
To me, that is such a a sad statistic. Like, you're telling me you give your life and soul to a job, and then you most of our first responders are passing away a few years after they retire, and they don't even get to live life. Mhmm. And see what that's like. You know what I mean? And I just have to think that the things that they do put in their body because of the stress of the job don't help in them.

Jennifer [00:13:09]:
Yeah. I hear that. And, you know, when we had, Jeremy on the podcast and talking about moral injury, you know, to kinda bring us back to that, I thought what was great in terms of what he shared is just that ability to kind of sit with himself and, like, take a second. And I think, you know, we're talking about caffeine. Caffeine is all about I mean, again, it's a stimulant. It's all about staying up, you know, going longer. And, you know, this idea that we just can't sit still, I think, sometimes can be something that I see sometimes with first responders, like, the stillness is more scary. Maybe I'm kinda jumping off topic a little bit with the caffeination, but

Ashlee [00:13:56]:
I love it.

Jennifer [00:13:57]:
Yeah. Well and I think that your original point too that you brought up about the stress hormones and things like that, like, you know, animals, which are humans, like, we have to let some of that out. I don't think we've talked about this on the podcast, that zebras shake after they outrun a lion is something. So, when zebras are being chased by a lion and they, you know, escape the lion, they will just shake. And it is just that escape of that stress hormone because, again, when you're running from a lion and you're gonna have adrenaline And and I don't know that we necessarily have a practice like that as humans, you know, a space to kinda let out, you know, that your stress hormones and, like instead of we just kinda hang on to them.

Ashlee [00:14:52]:
Well and I'll die on this hill because I've already Oh, dear. Probably a million times on this podcast, and everyone's gonna be like, Ashlee, we get it. But, again, that that notion of it takes twelve to seventy two hours to actually dump negative stress hormones out of your body. And it's not just dumping one time. Right? You go from call to call to call and you have a stressful night, that could equate to four or five times in your night that you're dumping negative stress hormones and then and then just that. Right? We don't leave these jobs and shake our body and release that

Jennifer [00:15:24]:
Yep.

Ashlee [00:15:25]:
The zebra. Right? Like, we go home to sometimes chaos. We go like, we have to go to the next thing. Or or even if we're talking about fire, the amount of them that have second jobs. Right? Like, they do not give themselves any time to cope and to

Jennifer [00:15:41]:
relieve. You know, also the experience in getting off your shift and, like, I gotta go to the grocery and get the groceries.

Ashlee [00:15:48]:
A %.

Jennifer [00:15:49]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Which is I mean, I think it's this hard thing because that is life, and it's life of a parent. And so it really is sometimes I'll never forget, and this might be a broken record here as well, having somebody, you know, talk about mindfulness in session sometimes and was talking about meditation. And this first responders said, okay. Well, I'm gonna have a goal of meditating for ten minutes every day. And I said, ma'am, monks aren't even doing that. Like, sometimes it's this idea of, like, okay.

Jennifer [00:16:33]:
Stress hormones. I'm gonna I'm gonna change all that. And it's feeling like we have to reinvent our lives Yep. Instead of just saying, you know, it's lying in the driveway and taking two breaths before you open your door. It's you know, this was a trick when I first became a parent. It's the, you know, ordering your groceries on your phone and having them ready to just throw them in your trunk. You know? It's these things that we do that give us a minute because it's hard to have that in in our busy lives.

Ashlee [00:17:10]:
I mean, absolutely. And that's something I stress so much too when I am working with my first responders is, like, you can you can make almost anything a mindfulness activity. It's about the intentionality behind it.

Jennifer [00:17:25]:
Mhmm.

Ashlee [00:17:26]:
Right? Like, anything can really have give us a break. Just give our brain a break, but it has to have that intentionality behind it. I always give this example of, like, a lot of my first responders are like, I like doing housework. Right? So I like working in the yard, and I like doing projects. Okay. Fine. But put your music on and zone out for a few minutes.

Jennifer [00:17:47]:
Yes.

Ashlee [00:17:48]:
You know? Like, for me, it's sports. Everybody knows that by now. It's always sports. So, like, I which can stress me out and give me a lot of gray hair. Thank you, Chicago Bears. Please endorse and help a sister out. But, like, sometime like, at football games, I'm not kidding you. Like, I will not respond to my phone.

Ashlee [00:18:09]:
I will put my phone in my pocket, and I will watch the game because that's all I have. You know what it like, give my brain a break to do something that it loves. And I think we just think when we when therapists talk about mindfulness now don't get me wrong. There's so many incredible things you can do for mindfulness that I will never be like, don't do them. I just stress this fact if it doesn't have to be something grand. Like, just pick it and be intentional about it and give your brain five minutes or three minutes, I don't care, to decompress.

Jennifer [00:18:42]:
And I think that that again, it's just that we we think that things have to look like they do on Instagram. You know? It's the person in the yoga pose Yes. In the perfect position, in the perfect cute outfit or, you know, the dad that spends, you know, the entire spring break camping with his kids, then and it's this place of, like, we're always falling short and recognizing, like, no. These things are just small things in our day to day. Yeah. This is a silly metaphor, but I think it's true. We just had Valentine's Day, so I think it would be kinda fitting that there was something about, oh, I want my flowers to last longer, you know, if I receive flowers from, you know, my partner. And it was just that flowers are meant to keep us in the present.

Jennifer [00:19:39]:
They're not supposed to last a long time. They're supposed to be enjoyed in the moment. And I think that's this mindful exercise, it's it just seems to be it's a few seconds. It is just about being in the moment.

Ashlee [00:19:52]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I don't know if you've ever I I just feel like it's I like how we're conversing about this because I think that that if a first responder listens, hopefully, they start to get this idea of, like, hey. Okay. It doesn't actually have to be that big of a deal. Because I don't know how many times I go to talk about being a little more mindful in their day, and a first responder will be like, Ashlee, I am not into hippie dippie shit enough. You know? And I'm like, ugh.

Ashlee [00:20:19]:
That's not even what I'm trying to do right now. Like, give me a second to explain it. Very quick to shut it off. But at the end of the day, it's like, how much change we can make positively if we incorporate just giving ourselves a break.

Jennifer [00:20:34]:
Mhmm. Yep.

Ashlee [00:20:35]:
You know, like, which is wild. It like, we're talking about, it's not much. It's really not. Doesn't have to be.

Jennifer [00:20:42]:
No. And I appreciate that because I do, I mean, I I meet people that aren't coming to therapy. I mean, I don't have clients that are court ordered anymore. You know, people come at their own free will and still can be so resistant to things. And, like, I received that resistance of, one, change is hard. Yep. Two, I'm in a really bad place, and it doesn't feel like I can ever get out of it. And so I think in understanding those things and then you're wanting me to do what? You know? Like Yeah.

Jennifer [00:21:19]:
Of course, this is hippie dippie. Of course, you know, we can be really resistant to this because I've been going 90 miles an hour through brick walls. There's no way that breathing is going to help me. A a little silly breathing exercise. And yet, I think it's a massive, massive place of just saying, what if I just tried something a little bit different because this isn't working? Or, again, I keep hearing these statistics. And, I mean, I think this is a positive too, and I think our episodes before have talked about this, you know, this slight shift in first responding world to consider mental health services or, you know, that, like, we can talk about, again, that we don't have to be perfect and, you know, having more open and honest conversations about mental health and things like that is a real positive move in the right direction. And I think the other thing I'll always say, and I'll say this as a parent, you know, the things that maybe you're resistant to do because it doesn't fit or life is busy and I just don't have the time, all those things. We're still living our lives as a stage show for our children.

Jennifer [00:22:42]:
Like, what they see us do as adults is what's gonna help them as adults. And if, again, to your beautiful point, Ashlee, if you could just take a break, like, that's a great thing to give your kids at a time.

Ashlee [00:22:58]:
Thinking that not only because I do get this a lot. Right? Well, where where do I have the time when I have kids at home, when I'm working overtime, when I'm doing all these things? And there are times where I'm just like, maybe it's not so much finding the specific thing, which I do think is beneficial. Right? Like, trying to find

Jennifer [00:23:17]:
out yourself

Ashlee [00:23:18]:
when we don't have the time. I always say to them, like, do it with your kids. Maybe it's just about sometimes in life having fun. Right? Like, when is the last time I always this is my this is my favorite one, but I always go back to, like, have you built a fort with your kids and watched a movie with them? Yeah. Right? Again, like, we don't stop to think about that, but do that with your kids. Watch a movie. Tune out the world for a little bit and be present with them. Our children well, I gotta give a shout out to Larry because our children, right, are our best example of being mindful.

Jennifer [00:23:51]:
Yep.

Ashlee [00:23:51]:
And so why not tap into them to help you do that? Oh, absolutely. You're building a bond with them and creating a core memory that they will not forget.

Jennifer [00:24:02]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:24:03]:
And so I think that's so important.

Jennifer [00:24:06]:
It is so important, and I think that there's so much pressure to get all of the boxes checked and to get dinner on the table and, you know, all of these things and recognizing what actually is most important is that time that we get to spend with our families. This is an older book now. Actually, I don't know if you're familiar with it, and I'm not gonna remember the title. But it was a hospice nurse who wrote her experience to show you know, that was her career is to be with patients that were dying. And she wrote this beautiful book and just said that, you know, nobody on their deathbed said they wish they spent more time at work. You know, nobody on their deathbed said, if only my house was cleaner. You know, nobody on their deathbed said, if only I'd done more, you know, Little League Baseball or you know, it is. If only I got to spend more time with my family, my friends.

Jennifer [00:25:08]:
And those are real mindful acts.

Ashlee [00:25:10]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And then I of course, my brain goes to how do we how do we encourage people to separate that identity of the job from everything else? Because that's such a big challenge too.

Jennifer [00:25:25]:
It's a huge challenge. I mean, I think that might need to be its own.

Ashlee [00:25:28]:
Its own episode. Yeah.

Jennifer [00:25:30]:
Yeah. Because, man, we're jumping here. But I I think great. And it's so funny in doing this. Y'all, we just hopped on the podcast. That's what we did. But it is amazing how, like, our brains like, I see your cogs moving, Ashlee, as we, like, have this conversation in terms of the relationship. And I also think in recognizing and and I think what you said so beautifully about giving yourself a break, sometimes it's just the honesty of, like, this is my best right now.

Ashlee [00:26:00]:
Yeah. Yeah. Absolute man. I kind of going back to that acceptance piece of where you're at. Right? That's true. But it's so hard to to do that. I think especially in these careers when you're always trying to make progress in some sort of way to feel like you're bettering yourself.

Jennifer [00:26:22]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think, though, the most this is pretty raw, but I think sometimes the most bettering of yourself is just being able to meet yourself where you're at and then go from there.

Ashlee [00:26:37]:
Yes.

Jennifer [00:26:38]:
And I think this was a moral injury conversation too of just about shame. And what this podcast is not about is is shaming anybody for drinking monster drinks or shaming anybody because they're worn out when they get home, and it's hard to build a fort because I'm tapped out. Like, this is not shame. This is just having honest conversations about this that to say you're not alone. Like, you're not alone in those experiences at all. And all we wanna say is that we care about you and wanna support you because we know how much you love your kids. We know how much you wanna be there. Like, that's what we felt.

Jennifer [00:27:16]:
And, again, you know, that experience for you, Ashlee, with your dad with those kinda things too.

Ashlee [00:27:23]:
Absolutely. Actually, that's a really good point. I've never stopped to to to think about the fact that we don't say those, like, those things because we can be so I can I'm gonna speak for myself here. I could be so clinician driven

Jennifer [00:27:36]:
Right. And I

Ashlee [00:27:36]:
forget that our audience may not recognize. Like, we're speaking from a place of, like, hey, guys. This is what we're seeing, so let us help you. Like Yeah. This is what we're every day, we're working with to try to make sure you guys get through this career and are okay at the end.

Jennifer [00:27:52]:
Mhmm. Right?

Ashlee [00:27:52]:
And so I think that was such a great point to hone in on because you're right. There is no judgment with it. We just care so deeply that everybody every first responder is okay. Like, that is a huge goal of mine.

Jennifer [00:28:04]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:28:04]:
No. It is yours too. And so that was a really good point to let them know, like, hey. No. We're just coming from a place of, like, this is as clinicians, as what we do every single day. This is what we're seeing.

Jennifer [00:28:15]:
Mhmm. That's a deal for sure. I just I'm sorry. I'm like, and then remember this episode.

Ashlee [00:28:22]:
Oh, I love the recaps, though.

Jennifer [00:28:25]:
Well, I just loved what and, of course, I'm embarrassed. I'm not gonna open these names. It was the two for one deal we had with the first responder Olympics.

Ashlee [00:28:38]:
Oh, yes. Chris.

Jennifer [00:28:40]:
Yes. Yes. And, you know, really saying that we don't always point out what first responders are good at. And I do think that, you know, part of resiliency, which is this beautiful thing, is to say, like, hey. What are our strengths? You know? Let's play to that as well. Yeah.

Ashlee [00:29:01]:
And so

Jennifer [00:29:02]:
I just wanna I don't know why I gotta throw that in there, but I just think it's true. Like, you know nobody. No problem. What are our strengths? What are some things that we're good at? So maybe we're not great at slowing down, but we are really great at, you know, compartmentalizing or knocking these things out. And okay. Well, let's definitely celebrate that while we're still working on the things that maybe don't come as natural.

Ashlee [00:29:27]:
Yeah. That's true. That's so fair that a %. Although, look at me. I'm gonna push back a little bit here because I feel like we could also have a whole episode on this notion of first responders and their comparm compartmentalization versus Do you think

Jennifer [00:29:42]:
that I do you think that I just picked that word out of the blue or maybe I was pretty

Ashlee [00:29:48]:
intentional? Never. Never. And that's leave our our listeners on a cliffhanger. Like, how many times do you actually say that in your life? If someone asks you, how did well, how did you cope? Or how do you get through these events? And you say that word. Because I promise you, every single one of them do it. Every single one of them.

Jennifer [00:30:04]:
Well, I think that there's also this notion that we compartmentalize and that it's, again, just this little clean box that we just set aside. And so recognizing it's really just shoving the massive Christmas tree with the ornament still on it in the storage closet. You know? It's just all gonna dump out on top of us. So They love that. So this just hopping on the podcast, I think, has led to more conversations.

Ashlee [00:30:35]:
So many more. Because right now, I'm like, okay. I have all these other topics that I feel like I need to talk about right now, and I'm trying so hard not to go into them because I'm like, no. They will be great on their own. I just Yeah. Things that people should think about. Right? Leaving them thinking is how you come back.

Jennifer [00:30:51]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And if you've hung on to this episode through all this here, there, and everywhere with us, thank you for sure. This was just a, like, let's hop on and and talk some things out. And again, what I what I hope, and I know Ashlee do the same, that you guys just feel seen and feel supported when you look something, because that's all we really wanna offer anybody.

Ashlee [00:31:17]:
And just honestly be insightful. Mhmm.

Jennifer [00:31:20]:
Think

Ashlee [00:31:20]:
about it to you, to your life. Do you wanna change it? Do you not? It's not our place. But it's just something to reflect on, and I think that's super powerful. So regardless, right, like, we had a notion in our head today, and we were like, we're running with it. Because although it is an awkward different topic of energy drinks and nicotine and things like that, it's it's very dang true in first responder world, and it's something that does need to be talked about. So I appreciate you sharing that story and letting us go on this because it is huge. Nutrition and the things we do, we put into our bodies are a huge factor into what happens. So

Jennifer [00:31:56]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Kinda how you started off in terms of we've had so many people reach out about the last episodes and be so supportive. That's just so welcome. Please continue to let us know your thoughts. I mean, maybe word them in kind ways, but, you know Whatever. You know, it's with it. Right.

Jennifer [00:32:17]:
Like, we're gonna

Ashlee [00:32:18]:
get all these messages.

Jennifer [00:32:19]:
I know.

Ashlee [00:32:20]:
I know. Also, I think it's safe to say too, like, if you're interested, if you're a child of a first responder, if you're a first responder yourself, if you're hearing these things and you're like, you know what? I kinda wanna speak up about it. Like Yeah. Get us up. This is what this is for. Come on the show. Like

Jennifer [00:32:33]:
Yes. We don't

Ashlee [00:32:34]:
have anybody on, so get on here. Let's do it. Let's do it together, and let's keep making change. That's how that's how we create change. Right? Is working together.

Jennifer [00:32:43]:
Yes. Absolutely.

Ashlee [00:32:45]:
Yeah. Awesome. Alright. Well, we do have some really big things coming your way. We do have some more guests, of course, come in your guys' way as well. But, overall, we're just thankful. We're thankful that we had 11,000 followers on social media as well, but kinda leaving you with the same same old same old. Right? And that's when the call hits home, just always know that Jennifer and I are here for you.

Ashlee [00:33:06]:
So thank you all.

Jennifer [00:33:08]:
Thank you, guys. Have a good one.

Ashlee [00:33:10]:
Bye.