Breaking the Stigma on First Responder Mental Health, Family, and Healing

Gary Jarboe [00:00:00]:
That's why I keep coming back. This is my 10th time to come back as a P. Well, and I.

Jennifer [00:00:04]:
Think that, Gary, I hope you hear this. In all sincerity, that's why we wanted to ask you these questions for the podcast, because I think it's like, it's such a gift that you give here. And I'm like, I know other people want to hear that in terms of your experience and sharing it.

Ashlee [00:00:20]:
I also think it helps end the stigma, too. Like, I think this is exactly what we need is for people in your position to be like, open up. It is okay to go get that help. There is not a time limit on this either. Right. Like, you are. You are being open and honest. And we're so grateful that you're on here saying, like, I am an older gentleman, and yet I'm making progress still in my life because I've decided to go open up to someone about what I've been through and what I've seen.

Jennifer [00:00:51]:
Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Jennifer.

Ashlee [00:00:53]:
And I'm Ashlee. And you know what, Jennifer, you get to say what we have, who we have today.

Jennifer [00:00:58]:
Well, as always, we have a very special guest with us today, and I'm so excited that he is willing to be here and share. So I'm just going to give it to you. You want to tell the listeners who you are and a little bit about yourself.

Gary Jarboe [00:01:09]:
My name is Gary Jarvo. I'm a retired sergeant with the Owensboro, Kentucky Police Department. My background when. When I was 18 years old, I joined the Marine Corps in 1969, which was, you know, people would say that's pretty crazy thing to do in the middle of the Vietnam War. But I enlisted for four years and spent four years on transport airplanes as flight crew before I got out. When I got back from overseas, I married my high school sweetheart, and we've been married this month for 53 years.

Jennifer [00:01:39]:
Congratulations.

Gary Jarboe [00:01:41]:
We have two sons and two grown sons and three grandsons who we love to go see.

Ashlee [00:01:48]:
Karen is outnumbered.

Gary Jarboe [00:01:49]:
Yes, definitely. In 1980, I was hired by the Owensboro Police department and spent 21 years there.

Ashlee [00:01:59]:
Wow.

Gary Jarboe [00:02:00]:
Retired after I'd had all the fun I could stand and all the fun that they could stand, and worked for another company for 13 years, and we've both been retired completely for the last 10.

Jennifer [00:02:12]:
Wonderful. I appreciate you sharing that extensive resume, and I want to thank you for your service.

Ashlee [00:02:17]:
Yes.

Jennifer [00:02:17]:
I have very important to say. You know, one thing I really appreciate about you, Gary, is that you're always open about your experience and saying you know, Ashlee and I are mental health professionals and saying, where was this 30 years ago? So can you talk a little bit about the difference of today in terms of just us using the word mental health and the experience of when you were first on the department in your career and what mental health was like in terms of that experience?

Gary Jarboe [00:02:48]:
Yeah. My only experience with any mental health professional until I came to PCIS was an interview I had when I was hired. And it was. I don't know how I can put this delicately.

Jennifer [00:03:03]:
You don't have to.

Gary Jarboe [00:03:04]:
But none of us were impressed with the practitioner that we talked to.

Jennifer [00:03:08]:
I understand that is delicate.

Gary Jarboe [00:03:11]:
And throughout my career, we had an employee assistance program like you're required to have. No one that I know of would have ever called employee assistance because we knew it was a direct line to the chief and. Or city hall. And we instinctively have a distrust of what we don't understand. And we have all heard horror stories of people's bad experiences with mental health professionals, and that's with any. Any occupation. But cops are control freaks. They don't want to give up control to anybody.

Gary Jarboe [00:03:50]:
And to. And you don't bear your soul to anybody. And that's. And that's a problem for us. And I'll be honest, it was for me and dealing with. With my family, you know, we don't even talk way too often. We don't talk to our families about things and. Sure.

Gary Jarboe [00:04:07]:
Not going to talk to some stranger.

Jennifer [00:04:09]:
Exactly.

Ashlee [00:04:10]:
Ex.

Jennifer [00:04:11]:
I appreciate you sharing that experience that you had, and I'm gonna dig a little bit deeper. You know, I appreciate you sharing your experience with the military, and I was very honored to get to work with service members and their families. And I do believe that the military is working hard to destigmatize mental health. But being in the Marine Corps, being at war, sometimes I see that experience of veterans that become police officers that it's so ingrained of. You're a soldier. Suck it up. I didn't know if that was a reinforcer or that made things different for you.

Gary Jarboe [00:04:53]:
You know, I really don't know. And I'll have to be honest. I spent four years in the Marine Corps, and I spent a little time in Vietnam, but I only saw their ice paddies from altitude. I was flying. I did not spend a year in Vietnam. We would run detachments in country and. And I was over there at the end of the Marine Corps involvement in Vietnam, so I wasn't even in there the entire time. But it's.

Gary Jarboe [00:05:17]:
You go to parris island in 1969. They tell you you're only there for one thing.

Ashlee [00:05:24]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:05:24]:
And you know, they told us we were all going to Vietnam, which at that stage of the war I understand very few of the people I went to boot camp with actually winning country. But it's the attitude that they teach you.

Ashlee [00:05:36]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:05:37]:
And, and it's the hard headed attitude. And, and I'll be honest with you, that hard headed attitude actually probably saved me.

Jennifer [00:05:44]:
Oh absolutely.

Gary Jarboe [00:05:45]:
Many years later when I had, when I was hit by a car and, and I was off work two years and my wife has told people that he probably couldn't have come back if he hadn't gotten hard headed at Parris Island.

Ashlee [00:05:58]:
Wow.

Gary Jarboe [00:05:58]:
Because I wasn't going to stay down.

Jennifer [00:06:00]:
That sounds like a Marine Corps. Yeah. Really hard at it.

Ashlee [00:06:04]:
Yeah, absolutely. And, and when I hear you talking about that too, like, I can't help but think like how much of that do you think translated to your home life? Like way too much. Way too much. Yeah. So it's, it's hard. Right. It's hard to get in that mindset and then just change it. I don't even know if that's possible for a lot of our first responders or for people who like you like a Marine.

Ashlee [00:06:24]:
Right. Like, yeah. And, but yet it's so beneficial on one side because we like you just said like hard headed and you got through something so big in your life and then yet it can be very impactful on the other side of things too. Did you start to notice that at all? It kind of going deep here with your family but like how that translated to your family? A little bit.

Gary Jarboe [00:06:45]:
Not until later.

Ashlee [00:06:46]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:06:46]:
You know, you don't show vulnerability.

Ashlee [00:06:49]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:06:50]:
You can't be vulnerable. You know, you've got to walk into the bar fight, necessarily walk in by yourself. But I mean you wait in the middle of it. And when I was a, when I was a rookie police officer, it was, I always had this thing in my mind that, you know, how will I react when I get to my, my first fight? Because I was little skinny guy. I've gained the number of pounds now. But yeah, I was, I was a pretty thin guy, barely met the minimum weight limits to get into, into the Marine Corps.

Ashlee [00:07:23]:
Oh wow.

Gary Jarboe [00:07:24]:
And, and until I had my first knock down drag out on the street, I had that, that doubt in my mind and it happened to be with my training officer several months after I'd gotten out by myself. And you know, he made the comment that you've done good rookie and that that was What I needed, and that's what I did the rest of the time I was in. Yeah, but yet you don't have that vulnerability. And I didn't. I didn't tell a lot of things at home because I didn't want to burden her. And she had never been exposed to the kind of life that I was seeing every day. I mean, her family, there was. There was no violence.

Gary Jarboe [00:08:07]:
There was no alcoholism. I mean, that she'd never seen domestic violence. And, you know, she used to say that she had heard all the stories, but what she heard was the stories that we would joke about when we get together.

Jennifer [00:08:22]:
The PG stories.

Gary Jarboe [00:08:23]:
Yeah. She didn't hear about the really bad ones, the ones where I was scared half to death and, you know, because you just don't burden your family with that.

Jennifer [00:08:31]:
Right. And I think it's that thing that is such a. A tightrope to. To walk, because I think it is. I love my family. I would not want.

Ashlee [00:08:40]:
Yeah.

Jennifer [00:08:41]:
To burden them. I don't want to upset them. I want to. You know, I'm protecting all these people in my community. Of course I want to protect my family. And yet that sometimes can be a misstep.

Gary Jarboe [00:08:54]:
Oh, we. We paid a price for it, really. And I've said, you know, when I come to. To the PC, is that. Where was this 35 years ago? It would have been a whole lot easier on my whole family and on me had I been able to. To do what I've. I've done since I've been here.

Ashlee [00:09:11]:
Yeah.

Ashlee [00:09:12]:
Do you feel like your connection then to your wife has grown stronger?

Gary Jarboe [00:09:15]:
Oh, definitely, definitely. And after we came here, we talked about things, and she heard about things that she had never heard about in all the years since I got on the department.

Ashlee [00:09:27]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:09:27]:
And even other things that we. We have better communication now than we had before.

Ashlee [00:09:33]:
And I'm going to take a second here to tell our listeners a little bit. Like, we won't go into detail. Details about the title or anything of the program, but it is a mental health program that we met Gary at, that they get to come and it's for first responders, and they get to come and talk about some of these intense, critical incidences that they've been through and honestly open up and get the help from mental health professionals and peers who have been through it as well and get to talk with their families. Wives are included. Spouses of any kind are included. And so I just want to put it out there because we're referencing it so much of, like, I mean, I think what's really powerful is that you were, you were retired into secondary.

Gary Jarboe [00:10:09]:
Yeah, I've been retired 21 years before I came.

Ashlee [00:10:12]:
Oh, wow.

Ashlee [00:10:13]:
Wow.

Gary Jarboe [00:10:13]:
Because it didn't exist at all while I was working.

Jennifer [00:10:16]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:10:16]:
Like the mental health world didn't. But is it okay if I ask and if this is too much, let us know? Like what, what made you decide finally to say, hey, I'm. I got stuff I gotta work on and I'm gonna go do that even after the career.

Gary Jarboe [00:10:29]:
Well, a couple of friends of mine that I had worked with and had retired and got back into it, just in conversation, told me about PC. I'd never heard of it until a little over two years ago.

Ashlee [00:10:40]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:10:41]:
And they were telling me about it and they both were raving about it. Said it's great, you need to, you need to go.

Ashlee [00:10:46]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:10:47]:
So I did a little research and looked at it. I looked online. I thought I knew I had some demons hanging around.

Ashlee [00:10:53]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:10:54]:
And I sat down with, with Karen and I said, would you go to this with me? And she said, yeah. So got online and got myself into it. And I'll be honest with you, on Monday I was trying to figure out a way that I could run.

Jennifer [00:11:10]:
Understandably run.

Ashlee [00:11:12]:
Yep.

Gary Jarboe [00:11:13]:
And on Wednesday, driving home, I was saying, where was this 35 years ago?

Jennifer [00:11:18]:
You know, I hate to say this, but I think you're a little bit of an outlier to know that you've been retired. Ashlee and I talk a lot about the impact of the career. And then retirement can be a really dangerous place sometimes. Time for officers. Do you care to share a little bit like what helps? I mean, you said, you know, I had these, these demons and being open. But unfortunately people that retire from a first responder career, that can be some hard times. And if you can share a little bit like what was helpful for you in terms of. Or what has been helpful for you in terms of retirement.

Gary Jarboe [00:11:53]:
Well, I came in here with, with one thing that had, had bothered me and had bothered me for years. And I talked about it when I was here. And then I realized that that was just one of many. I have had a. Hell, I've lost count. Six, seven follow up sessions.

Ashlee [00:12:12]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:12:12]:
With an MHP since then. You know, I, I call Hannah my savior, but it's. And some of it goes back to my childhood. But there were things that, that had really bothered me. I spent five years, about 90% of my time was spent investigating sexual abuse of children. And you know, that stuff wears on you.

Jennifer [00:12:34]:
Absolutely.

Gary Jarboe [00:12:35]:
And some of the Other things that I was in. And. And, you know, I had. I had the. Some guilt because of. I was in the Marine Corps. I went to Vietnam. There were times that I was hesitant to even say that I was a Vietnam vet because I wasn't in the Rice Patty.

Gary Jarboe [00:12:52]:
You know, I wasn't out there. And. And that's. And there's a whole dynamic in that, too. And that's not unusual.

Jennifer [00:12:57]:
Oh, it's not.

Gary Jarboe [00:12:58]:
There's something I read several months ago, and I sent it to a friend of mine that had even more issues with that than I did. And one of the first lines is, if you've. If you've been deployed 10 times, you think you should have done more. Or if you deployed once, you know, you think you should have done more. So no matter what we do, the idea is that we did what we were told to do while we were there, and that's what our service was supposed to be. But it's. It's. You know, I'm 73 years old, and I've got a lot of crap baggage that I'm carrying from a lot of different things.

Gary Jarboe [00:13:34]:
But this has been, you know, if somebody had told me I was. When I came here, that I was actually going to sit down with a mental health professional. But, yes, thank you. And it's the same response I have gotten. And I've kind of made it my mission to talk to retirees that I know to try to get them to come. We don't talk about that. And I sure don't talk about that.

Ashlee [00:13:56]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:13:56]:
And we're a hard nut to crack.

Jennifer [00:13:59]:
Well, understandably. And, you know, I don't think that there's anything scarier than being vulnerable.

Gary Jarboe [00:14:05]:
Oh. Especially for control freaks like we are.

Jennifer [00:14:07]:
Exactly. Exactly. And there's a lot more comfortability walking into a bar fight than there is walking into a therapist office. For sure.

Gary Jarboe [00:14:17]:
Because I. I at least have a clue what's going to happen in the bar fight. First time I sat down with a mental health professional, I had no clue.

Jennifer [00:14:25]:
We're pretty scared.

Ashlee [00:14:26]:
I was just about to say.

Gary Jarboe [00:14:27]:
Yeah, you are. You frighten me. All this.

Jennifer [00:14:30]:
Never married 53 years. That's incredible. And again, just.

Gary Jarboe [00:14:36]:
She's an angel.

Jennifer [00:14:37]:
Well, I already know that, but any secrets, any advice that you can give to people in terms of what it takes to be married for 53 years, besides the fact that your wife has to be an angel.

Gary Jarboe [00:14:49]:
Well, and it's even. You know, and you. To. To put it in terms that I use, my wife married a Marine who Became a cop. So she has put up with so much and, you know, and neither one of us are perfect. We've. We've had our bad times.

Jennifer [00:15:05]:
I don't know. I've met her. She might be perfect.

Ashlee [00:15:08]:
Well, yes. I mean, her birthday is my birthday.

Gary Jarboe [00:15:11]:
Perfect.

Ashlee [00:15:12]:
Perfection.

Jennifer [00:15:13]:
But we don't live.

Gary Jarboe [00:15:14]:
Yeah. I won't tell any stories, but, you know, it's the commitment that. And I read something online the other day, and online, it has to be true. The thing was, somebody asks a woman that had been married for 60 years what her secret was, and she said, we come from a generation that when something is broken or not working right, you don't throw it away, you fix it.

Ashlee [00:15:43]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:15:45]:
And I thought that was a pretty powerful statement.

Jennifer [00:15:47]:
Oh, absolutely. It is important to work through things. And I have seen relationships that work through that brokenness and man, they're even stronger because of it.

Ashlee [00:15:59]:
Yeah.

Jennifer [00:16:00]:
Instead of walking away.

Gary Jarboe [00:16:02]:
And I. There were times that, especially with. On the department, that I was. I was certainly not the easiest guy to live with.

Ashlee [00:16:10]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:16:11]:
And I. I had. I had issues and didn't know how to handle them, but, you know, didn't work them out perfectly, but worked them out and we've. And we've stayed together and. And we're better now than we were a few years ago.

Jennifer [00:16:25]:
Wow, that's incredible. And I mean, I. I see that happen in relationship and with family dynamics is when you are in the situation, you kind of withdraw even more. And, you know, I've always referenced families as this cogs in a watch, you know, and they all kind of have to fit in order for the watch for the family to work. And when somebody withdraws more and more, it's hard for those cogs of a family to function. And I think it says a lot that, you know, recognizing that and saying, like, but we're still. We're going to still keep time, you know, we're still going to figure out that, you know, I definitely want to be respectful of your boys, but I also think that they have big professions, have worked really hard. So I don't know if you want to share a little bit about what it's like being a dad and being an officer.

Gary Jarboe [00:17:26]:
You know, it was. I always worried and I was talking to somebody last night that we never really sat down and talked about that dad was going to work and that something might happen to him. I didn't know how to bring that up. They definitely saw me put on a gun and a vest.

Jennifer [00:17:46]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:17:46]:
Every day.

Ashlee [00:17:47]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:17:47]:
They saw me with a Black eye for six weeks. One time a broken hand. They have gotten up in the morning and back in these days, before bloodborne pathogens, you had a bloody uniform shirt. You put it in ice water. Well, they've gotten up and there's. In the kitchen sink is a bloody uniform shirt.

Ashlee [00:18:04]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:18:05]:
And ice water. Because I came home. Wasn't my blood, but I came home and changed uniform shirts and went back to work. And I get it was avoidance. I didn't know what to say, so I didn't say anything.

Ashlee [00:18:19]:
Yeah.

Ashlee [00:18:20]:
After powerful.

Gary Jarboe [00:18:23]:
After I decided that we were coming, we were on vacation together and I got the boys and took them off. We just sat down and. And talked. Apologize for the way I had been. Because I know I was an at times, probably a lot of times they weren't concerned. They said I wasn't as bad as I seem to think I was, which made me feel better.

Jennifer [00:18:47]:
Yeah, of course. Sounds like they love you a lot when that's. I mean, that's what happens when we love our family members. There's grace and understanding.

Ashlee [00:18:55]:
I think that speaks to what we even do on this podcast. Right. Is like, I'm very open about some of the struggles that I've had with my own dad, and you know what I mean? Like, Jennifer is too. And yet we love them more than, like, my, you know, like my dad on the moon. You know what I mean? And I feel so like we're. That speaks volumes that. Because I do think there's truth to a lot of first responder children. We can look at our.

Ashlee [00:19:17]:
Our parent who is a first responder and be like, man, they are rough or they are strict or they are assholes. I've said that in my head before too. Right. Like, and at the same time know that that love is still very much so there. Like, I do think we have a unique way of doing that as. As children of first responders. And that just speaks so much volume of like, yeah, like, you weren't as bad as you think you. You were.

Ashlee [00:19:41]:
And we do love you well.

Jennifer [00:19:43]:
And I think the other piece of that. Gary, I just want to applaud you for you taking the steps. I mean, what a gift that you gave your boys. Even if it was, you know, a couple years down the road to say I was a human being and I'm sorry.

Ashlee [00:19:58]:
Like, those words, I say that all the time. I say that with my first responders, Alicia. Like, what is the harm in owning it? Like. But a lot of my first responders struggle with that. And there's so much. Again, power in the words. I'm sorry.

Ashlee [00:20:14]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:20:14]:
And, you know, and I look back at the way I was. I didn't know any other way to be. And you know, I have said that I've had jobs where I didn't just have a job, I became something. I will always be a marine. I will always be a cop, you know, and that's. And that's the truth. And we, so many of us just immerse ourselves so much in the job.

Ashlee [00:20:38]:
Yes.

Gary Jarboe [00:20:40]:
You know, and. And from a. It's not a small town, but it's not a big city. And within two years, every punk in town knows who you are because they've seen you in court or you've locked them up. So, you know, when you're just in town going out to eat or going to the mall and then, well, I lock that SOB up. But, well, I had a knock down that dragon fight with him and I just, you know, he just beat his wife last week, you know, and. And it's you. You see that? And, and you're always looking over your shoulder and, you know, and my wife is with me.

Gary Jarboe [00:21:10]:
And, you know, I don't know if.

Jennifer [00:21:11]:
This resonates with you at all, but, you know, you talk about going to Parris island and, you know, I think to be a police officer you got to go to the academy. You know, you get to take these courses and do these trainings, and yet they don't have any of that for parenting, do they?

Gary Jarboe [00:21:28]:
Hope? No.

Jennifer [00:21:30]:
And so I think that's why we can identify more as our career sometimes than being a parent. I mean, we read the books, you know, and this is a saying that my. I'm totally stealing from my dad. And when I became a parent, I'm like, oh, gosh, why is this so true? But he says, you know, you can read all the books, you can take all the classes, and when you become a parent, you just pray because that's all you kind of got. And it's so true. And into your point, like, it's what we, we know. You know, we don't. We don't know and stuff.

Jennifer [00:22:04]:
And you have two kids and. And sometimes two kids need different things.

Gary Jarboe [00:22:08]:
Oh, and yeah, my two boys are so different.

Jennifer [00:22:11]:
Isn't that wild? It is the same.

Gary Jarboe [00:22:15]:
Well, one of my sons has two boys and they're about four between four and five years apart. And they are just so different. Like mine.

Ashlee [00:22:23]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jennifer [00:22:24]:
What's the age difference between your boys?

Gary Jarboe [00:22:27]:
Five years.

Jennifer [00:22:27]:
Okay. Okay. Nice. Nice.

Ashlee [00:22:29]:
Yeah, absolutely. So what I want to be like, mindful of our time too. But what would you have any advice that you would want to give to these younger generations? Coming up? Coming through. Career.

Gary Jarboe [00:22:44]:
Don't hold back like I did.

Ashlee [00:22:46]:
Wow. Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:22:48]:
Any dispatcher or officer that has actually worked for five years probably has enough baggage that they need to come to a program like this one.

Ashlee [00:23:01]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer [00:23:03]:
I do think it's beautiful seeing people say, I'm trying to make sure my bucket doesn't get full. And I think that is a younger generation thing. Like it doesn't have to spill all over the floor in order for me to maybe try to keep house a little bit.

Gary Jarboe [00:23:20]:
Some of these people come into this program, they weren't born when I started my career and that's. And that's difficult for me. And, and, well, and you know, the only peer that comes to this that's older than me is your dad. You know, I'm, you know, we're the OGs. When, when we have this. In fact, I, I asked some people, I said, am I even relevant anymore? Because. And, and I have been assured that I am. But, you know, I look at these.

Gary Jarboe [00:23:49]:
They're not kids, but, you know, they're. I'm old enough to be their grandfather, some of them.

Ashlee [00:23:55]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer [00:23:56]:
I gotta make this clear for my dad. He's young on the inside, so just because, you know, the outside says different. He's young.

Gary Jarboe [00:24:04]:
Oh. He's not slowed down from what I've seen of it.

Jennifer [00:24:07]:
Definitely hasn't. He definitely has that. But I think that there's power in saying, where was this 30 years ago?

Ashlee [00:24:15]:
Yeah.

Jennifer [00:24:15]:
And taking from that, what can we do different? And then the other part of it, I do think it's powerful to say I'm hard headed. Like that actually is a gift. That's not a bad thing. You know, we would say that's determined. And being determined is a really powerful thing. So I just want to applaud that. And I don't know, I think part of this is like, well, I want to give what I wasn't given.

Gary Jarboe [00:24:41]:
Yeah.

Jennifer [00:24:42]:
You know.

Ashlee [00:24:42]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:24:42]:
Like, that's why I keep coming back. This is my 10th time to come back at the pier.

Jennifer [00:24:47]:
Well, and I think that. Gary, I hope you hear this in all sincerity, that's why we wanted to ask you these questions for the podcast. Because I think it's like, it's such a gift that you give here. And I'm like, I know other people want to hear that in terms of your experience and sharing it.

Ashlee [00:25:03]:
I also think it Helps. And the stigma too. Like, I think this is exactly what we need is for people in your position to be like, open up. It is okay to go get that help. There is not a time limit on this either. Right. Like you are, you are being open and honest. And we're so grateful that you're on here saying, like, I am an older gentleman and yet I'm making progress still in my life because I've decided to go open up to someone about what I've been through and what I've seen the fear is.

Gary Jarboe [00:25:35]:
And, and we have. And I know as in the, in the field you have heard this, but finding the right.

Ashlee [00:25:42]:
Yes.

Gary Jarboe [00:25:43]:
Provider.

Jennifer [00:25:44]:
I mean, Ashlee and I have tried to talk about that too. And I, I hate this, but it's true. Like, I think that finding a good therapist is probably harder than dating.

Gary Jarboe [00:25:53]:
Well, I don't remember a whole lot about that. But, but you know, it's finding somebody who is used to dealing with first responders.

Ashlee [00:26:04]:
Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:26:05]:
Just to get in the phone book and, and find a therapist or a counselor. No. That you're. That's a crapshoot.

Ashlee [00:26:13]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Gary Jarboe [00:26:14]:
And that's why I was so thankful for this program because everyone here is trained and dealing with first responders. So many of you all restrict your practice to just first responders and their families. So you, you can relate to us and you two in particular being the children of police officers. Yeah, it, you know, but we've all heard the horror stories, haven't we? And that's. The horror stories scare everybody off.

Ashlee [00:26:41]:
Well.

Jennifer [00:26:42]:
And I think what I always say is when I have somebody come to meet with me who's met with. And sometimes it's not even a horrible experience with another provider. It was just like, it just didn't feel right. It just didn't feel like it. And I always think it's amazing when they give it another try because it's an easy write off to say, well, that person. So they're all like that. And I'm never going to try again. And sometimes we can use that as a cop out instead of.

Jennifer [00:27:08]:
So I appreciate that. Well, again, thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Thank you for sharing.

Ashlee [00:27:15]:
Thank you for being our number one fan. He is. And we love him. We love him. So it's an honor to have you on and to share your story and hopefully have you back on soon too to talk about a few things. I think we could continuously keep your brain.

Jennifer [00:27:28]:
Oh, absolutely.

Gary Jarboe [00:27:29]:
Well. And my wife and I listen to you every time we, we do it together when we're on the road, when.

Ashlee [00:27:35]:
I get on, shout out to Cameron.

Gary Jarboe [00:27:37]:
We, we do travel quite a bit.

Jennifer [00:27:39]:
Well, tell us, would you be comfortable sharing what you're going to be celebrating in November?

Gary Jarboe [00:27:44]:
The 10th of November is the 250th Marine Corps birthday.

Jennifer [00:27:48]:
Happy birthday.

Gary Jarboe [00:27:49]:
And the Marine Corps birthday is a national holiday for those people that don't know. When we got married and moved into base housing at at Cherry Point, North Carolina, we became friends with two other couples. One of the couples was a newlywed couple like us. They were married like a month after we were. The other couple were married before he went overseas and actually we spent the same months overseas but we were no kids, in base housing 20 miles from the beach. We got to be good friends and have kept in contact and since we are all retired now, we've been able to get together more often. And we are going to Branson, Missouri, the most veteran friendly town I know of. And the six of us are going to celebrate the 250th birthday of the Marine Corps.

Jennifer [00:28:34]:
Let's do it.

Ashlee [00:28:35]:
That sounds incredible.

Ashlee [00:28:36]:
That's awesome.

Jennifer [00:28:38]:
Well. And so on the road you'll get to listen to us and we always appreciate that. So absolutely.

Ashlee [00:28:44]:
Thank you so much again for being on today. And just to all of our listeners, never forget that when the call hits home, Jennifer and I are here for you.

Jennifer [00:28:51]:
Thank you.