Growing Up in a First Responder Family: Resilience, Family Dynamics, and Career Choices

Ashlee [00:00:00]:
I think that there's the pros and cons. I think that there's a family system and family dynamic that happens with first responders. That instilling resiliency, which we've talked greatly about within your kids. Right. Like, is what continues to even in the midst of sometimes chaos. Because every family has the right to chaos.

Jennifer [00:00:18]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:00:18]:
Instilling that resiliency and instilling that if we're a good first responder. Right. We know that we're instilling these proper values of respect and integrity and all these things. And I think that's where that system comes into play, because everybody in that household pretty much upholds that. Right. And so then you go into this world when you are a child and you. That's all you know. I still think that there are moments where I look at other people who didn't grow up in a first responder family, and I literally, like, my brain can't comprehend how their brain.

Jennifer [00:00:54]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:00:55]:
Doesn't think the way that I do. Like, doesn't see it in. In different, like, the ways that I do. But I have to remember that that emotional intell. Isn't there at that extent of. Because they didn't have to have that because it was instilled in us at a young age to think differently, to think more critically, to be aware of our surroundings.

Jennifer [00:01:14]:
Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Jennifer.

Ashlee [00:01:16]:
And I'm Ashlee.

Jennifer [00:01:18]:
And here we are. And it's just us today. We don't get to say special guest. Yeah.

Ashlee [00:01:23]:
Which again, if people are following along and have this game, I don't know, who am I to say, like, sorry, you're missing out. Although you said it, you said it.

Jennifer [00:01:33]:
So maybe it counts.

Ashlee [00:01:34]:
But they're really. I feel like we've hit it really big with some of these guests lately, and I'm just so thankful.

Jennifer [00:01:41]:
Great. I mean, I hope that we always come across with such gratitude for our guests that give their most valuable thing right that we have is time, and they are willing to share and give it to us. And I know our last episode was one that we were really excited about having. Specifically, I want to talk more about, like, the finances of things and how that could be impactful for families or first responders.

Ashlee [00:02:06]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, too, it's just been such a big theme. So clinically speaking, it's a big theme for me. I don't know if you feel the same way, Jennifer. And then just again, when we're talking about being a child of a first responder, and I Don't know, all encompassing. For real. Right.

Jennifer [00:02:21]:
His episode for me was, yeah. I mean, I think that finances do show up when people have stress and high stress things and situations. And finances can absolutely be a part of that. And so I think we always feel better when we have a plan, even if it is we don't have a scent. At least we can have a plan to maybe get two nickels that can make us feel a little less stressed. So I appreciate that.

Ashlee [00:02:44]:
And what I love about us, right, Is being able to talk about these things and then we do this back end work of, like, how can we find somebody to connect it?

Jennifer [00:02:51]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:02:52]:
You know, and I hope that, that, that our listeners are like, yes, we need more connections, tools, resources, because I know that's big for us. We don't want people to feel like we're just on here talking. We want to actually provide some help, helpful things.

Jennifer [00:03:03]:
I totally agree with that. And that's a great point as well. As I'm not the finance expert, we should not take financial advice. I'm not that financial counselor.

Ashlee [00:03:13]:
Not from me either. Not from there.

Jennifer [00:03:15]:
I love that. I did see a meme that said, I'm the number one bread loser in my family and I've never related to something.

Ashlee [00:03:24]:
Oh, my gosh, that's so funny. That is so funny. I mean, I feel that way every time I pay for my bear season tickets, that's for sure. I'm like, oh, when is my husband gonna be done with this? Oops.

Jennifer [00:03:39]:
You know, it is almost there. Like, it's fair season girl Sunday.

Ashlee [00:03:45]:
This. Well, when this airs, it'll already pass, but we will have one game under our belt. Preseason.

Jennifer [00:03:51]:
Yes. Yes, yes. I'm so excited for you that it's finally the most magical time of year for you football.

Ashlee [00:03:57]:
So I have to put this out there because it was so funny. I looked at my husband and I said, oh, my gosh, I feel like I'm coming back to life when football starts again and fall. And it just, it makes my heart so happy. Like, I'm coming back to life. And he stops in the car and he looks at me and he goes, can I just share how weird that sounds when literally everything's dying? And I said, oh, my gosh, like, what? Why you got to come at me like this? Like what? Like. And then I thought to myself, I was a little proud that he came at me like that because that's something my dad would do. That's something he learned specifically from Craig Neef. And so I always will look at him sometimes when he finally has this edge because he's not from a first responder's family, right? So our tough joking, like our, like, hard love was very new to him, right? And so, like, sometimes when he does those things and, you know, I'll respond a little attitude or something to give it back, but in my head, I'm like, oh, look who's learning.

Jennifer [00:04:56]:
That's how you have to survive. That's how you have to survive.

Ashlee [00:05:00]:
Or I'll flat out look at him and be like, okay, Craig, Nef. Like, that was. That was a him thing.

Jennifer [00:05:05]:
Like, yeah, yeah.

Ashlee [00:05:07]:
So that's. So I had to share that because it was just so funny. But I think talking back to the finances and the people we've had on here, you know, and wanting in so many ways for us to help. Right. Help our listeners, help the people that we do serve. I guess I wanted to ask you a little bit, Jennifer, because we haven't talked much about this, and it kind of feeds into how we got to. Where we got is, like, what was your path? What made you kind of pick this one? Your career in general. But then obviously a little.

Ashlee [00:05:35]:
We know why you went into first responder world, but how does that evolve for you?

Jennifer [00:05:39]:
That's a great question, and it's interesting. I wanted to ask you this question first, but I guess I'll go first. Oh, oh, oh, you're good.

Ashlee [00:05:47]:
You're good.

Jennifer [00:05:48]:
I'm just like, the wheels are. And it was so long ago since I got out of college, which is crazy. It's funny how those things work out, though. I went to school and I was like, I'm gonna be a dentist. Talk about just like, pulling something out of a bag. Like, I don't know why.

Ashlee [00:06:06]:
Thought you were gonna say pulling teeth. But, you know, just an opportunity there, didn't I?

Jennifer [00:06:11]:
So I remember taking some science courses and like, yeah, this ain't for me. And, you know, I had, like, prerequisites that you had to have, and I took a sociology class and I enjoyed it. I really liked the sociology professor that I had. He was great and enjoyed the class. Then I don't know how, but I ended up in, like, a Psych 101 class. Shout out to Dr. Osborne. And I sat in that class and it was really like, this is going to sound so hokey and, like, weird, but it was really like one of those, like, real life, like, light bulb moments of like, oh, no, this is it.

Jennifer [00:06:55]:
And just felt like this is. And what it stood for. Me, I enjoy Helping people like that is something I care about. And sociology overwhelmed me. Like, I can't save the world, but I could save. Well, I couldn't say, but, you know, you can save, sit with one person and, like, see the change as, like, an individual. And so I think that's what really appealed to me. And then, you know, that was like, my freshman year as my second semester, my freshman year of college, and then I still had to go.

Jennifer [00:07:27]:
Like, I remember I changed education, and I was like, I really like art, and, like, I took some art classes, like, basically denying what had happened in terms of that. And I was like, no, it's really psychology and stuff. And so I graduated with that and found out really quickly with a psych degree, I could be like a barista or work at a bank or, you know, there's just not too much you can do without, like, a furthering your degree. And I had an opportunity and worked at a home for girls. I don't think you call it that anymore. And. And it was helpful and really eye opening. And you're kind of seeing outside of the margin, children who have been in really horrific situations.

Jennifer [00:08:10]:
And that really kind of led for me to pursue a master's degree to find, like, a deeper way and, like, helping those kids. And so that's kind of where it started for me. And so I do want us to have, like, the sociology psychology debate on this podcast as well. So walk me through, my wonderful social worker, what your path was in terms of becoming a mental health professional, especially your doctor degree.

Ashlee [00:08:37]:
Oof. Yeah. So I say, oof. Is that a bad reaction? I'm like, ooh. So I honestly, like, funny enough, like, right when you said that, because we've never really talked about this, like, the same thing sort of happened for me. I remember sitting in my sociology class, and I liked it, but I was like, oh, like, this is a lot looking at things as a whole, like that. Looking how about how groups interacted and things like that. I was like, I like it, but this isn't like, a love.

Ashlee [00:09:04]:
And honestly, my story is a little deep in that. You know, my parents were. I was older when my parents started to get divorced. Like, I was a teen, and it. It wasn't. I've shared on here before, like, a very pretty thing. It wasn't a very good time in everyone's lives when that happened. But then my stepmom came into play, and she's a social worker, and I started taking psychology courses at niu.

Ashlee [00:09:30]:
And again, I can't remember. You're real good with names. I can't remember my one professor's name. Oh, this just came way full circle for everybody on this podcast. But it was one of my very first psych classes. And he brought up Brandon Marshall, who at the time was playing on the Bears. And the minute anybody makes a connection like that, I'm sold. You don't need.

Ashlee [00:09:52]:
Yeah, you don't really need.

Jennifer [00:09:54]:
I love that you don't remember the professor's name, but remember the football players.

Ashlee [00:09:58]:
100. That's how I live my life. It's really bad. It's really bad. And anytime someone starts to talk to me, football language or something, like, I'm.

Jennifer [00:10:07]:
Like, oh, like, I get it, it's bad.

Ashlee [00:10:10]:
But he actually started talking about him and then just fed into, like, talking about, like, the DSM and all these different things. Right. And just equating it back to people. And I remember being like, this is so cool. And like, talking about how. How even professional athletes can struggle or, like, how this works in terms of the brain and what the brain can go through. And I just. I felt so fascinated by that that I was like, okay, I think I'm in the right spot.

Ashlee [00:10:39]:
I really wanted to go for marine biology. I'm going to be honest and learned quickly that math isn't my things. But still, it honestly, for me, like, I. That caught my attention. I kept going. But as I was going through that, there was just so much happening at home as well. And thankfully at that time, I was a little bit older. But one thing that never kind of wavered in my life was my stepmom and her ability to stay so neutral in chaos, I guess is the best way to put it.

Ashlee [00:11:06]:
Yeah, like, 1,000%, like, was never negative, never said anything negative, never inserted herself in a way that, you know, like, just the most patience and grace I've ever met in a human. And I remember being like, thank God, like, we have this sounding board when. When everything else isn't so well. And I think that just inspired me to go further with social work.

Jennifer [00:11:31]:
It was really kind of her in so many ways. That's beautiful.

Ashlee [00:11:35]:
Yeah, it really is. You know, it's a little tough to talk about out loud, but it is. I mean, I would tell her that, but it is true. Like, it's. It was a very, you know, hard time in our lives. And with my parents, like, it just wasn't good. And so to have like a. An adult there that was sound of mind that understood that, like, you're impacting a system here.

Ashlee [00:11:55]:
A Family, I don't know, it just really meant a lot to me in that time, a crucial time in my life. And so I went on to social work because of that. I definitely looked into. She does school social work. So I definitely thought at first, like maybe following in those steps and doing things and then actually decided at first to do gerontology. I love that population. But then it was, and I know I've shared this before, it was that realization when life happened in the world and the civil unrest started to unfold and it was my first time being kind of like smacked in the face with reality. I'm going to be honest, of life and my, you know, my dad's job and feeling so anxious and nervous for him that I started to find this like, such a big passion of like, well, how do I help and how do I make change with first responders? And then from there it just kept going.

Ashlee [00:12:43]:
My doctorate's degree. Well, every. Well, actually maybe not everybody knows the story.

Jennifer [00:12:49]:
I don't.

Ashlee [00:12:50]:
Oh, okay. Well, forgive me, dad. So my doctorate's degree, 99% of it was for myself. 1% of it was definitely probably throw my middle finger in the air and tell my dad to go pound sand in life because. And maybe this is something me and my dad need to talk about on our next episode. I know people have wanted him to come back on, but there was a time in life that I went to a different school and I decided to come home. I didn't like it there and fear took over for my dad. And we've talked about this with first responders.

Ashlee [00:13:23]:
When they are so fearful, a lot of them act out in anger because instead of being vulnerable and saying what's really having them feel their feels right. He definitely acted out in anger and he said some, some really hard things to me. One being that I wouldn't make it anywhere in life. Right. That I wouldn't succeed and that I was going to amount to nothing. I pretty sure what he said. And while now I know that that came from a place of fear, that doctorate's degree was really to. To tell him to shove it like, Right, right.

Ashlee [00:13:55]:
And now if he hears this and or he tells that story, which he does, he will cry instantly. Sorry, I'm just really letting it out on you, dad. Because. Right. Like in his heart of hearts, he would have never wanted to say that to me. But he also just didn't know how to handle the situation at that time.

Jennifer [00:14:13]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:14:14]:
And was trying to get me to stay. So if I'm fearful of coming Home, I'm gonna stay, and then I'm gonna realize everything's okay.

Jennifer [00:14:21]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:14:21]:
Also, don't forget, you create your children. I've said that before. So I'm just like him. And I'm just as stubborn. So my ass came home anyway. Y'.

Jennifer [00:14:28]:
All Right. That doesn't change it for me.

Ashlee [00:14:31]:
Yeah, no. And so that, I mean, more or less, I did want to go for myself. I wanted to learn new theories, new ways to help. How can I better help certain populations? How can I put my research into first responders? But there's still that 1%. I'll be honest. That was a proving point.

Jennifer [00:14:48]:
Yeah. Well, I appreciate your honesty and like, letting us in a little bit of that family system, that family dynamic. Family systems is a word that mental health professional use just to describe a family and its function. So in case people don't know that for sure, using this word family system. What though, in like, your doctorate degree, do you feel like you really took away, like, what was the next level in this path with sociology? That was really helpful, especially because you're so focused in the first responder world.

Ashlee [00:15:24]:
Yeah. So it's interesting you say that because I think that degree is so much different than obviously, we think of it one way we go through it, and it's completely different. For me, we did. We were super, super, like, theories based on. So it was very helpful for me to start connecting kind of why as a society, as a world. Right. Like why we do the things we do, but how do we look at things as well. And so my biggest takeaway, honestly, for my doctor's degree, one, was confidence in myself because I could not.

Ashlee [00:15:54]:
You cannot pass that without tapping into to yourself and being able to, like, verbalize and do the research and do the presentations. And it's so uncomfortable. Public speaking is not my thing, but it forces you to do that. Right. But two is learning just how. Where we have come from in terms of our thought process. And again, we're gonna. I'm gonna throw this out there because this is.

Ashlee [00:16:20]:
If you. If anyone reads my dissertation, like, systems theory was a big deal. Right. But where did that derive from? Where does that come from? So I spent TTSD but hours reading original work from, you know, like, famous people and trying to break it down. And like, going back through all this research that was done and it's silly. Some of it's silly now where you're like, what? Like, why would they think that? Like, why would they do that? And. And yet if we didn't have those things you wouldn't be effective as therapists now.

Jennifer [00:16:53]:
Right, right.

Ashlee [00:16:55]:
You know, so these theorists and all these things, it was. I think that that's really kind of what helped me. And then just learning that the unfortunate thing in this world is that if we want to make change, you do have to have a name in some way, shape or form.

Jennifer [00:17:10]:
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely hierarchy, things that come with higher education. Yeah. And you're exactly right that having a doctorate degree is a part of that change. Thanks for answering that question. I know it was kind of random, but was that good?

Ashlee [00:17:25]:
Was that. Was it even helpful? I try so hard to balance my nerdy myself with, like, remembering that not everybody knows what the heck I'm going to be talking about when I talk about these things. So I have to try to, like, bring it back down.

Jennifer [00:17:40]:
Well, and I think that that sometimes can be something I know, something I feel of like, oh, these are just concepts that everybody knows. Because when you spend time at school reading and writing papers and all that kind of thing, you think, oh, it's a language that everybody has. And then sometimes you step back and you're like, oh, no, it's something like just talking about anger. And like, you know, anger is a response that humans like because it sometimes gives us power and things that we feel like we have none or no control over. And so, you know, I'd be mad at somebody and punch them in the face. Like, that gives me something, rather than say, like, hey, you hurt my feelings when you did this. You know, that's sometimes extremely hard. Extremely hard to do that.

Ashlee [00:18:27]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think too, like, growing up the way that I did, that we did. Right. We have spoken about the ability to see our parents give back. So I think too, of course, going into this degree as a social worker is like, I want to help.

Jennifer [00:18:44]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:18:45]:
But how do I help?

Jennifer [00:18:46]:
You know, I think it's interesting that you bring that up. And I think that is something we wanted to talk a little bit about on this episode, which is, I know when I went to school and the question of what I want to be when I grow up, there had to be something about meaning. Like, meaning was important to me in terms of choosing a career, you know, and. And that doesn't discount people that do all kinds of jobs. And we. We need all of that in our society, for sure. But I know for myself, like, I wanted something that's feels a higher meaning. And I think sometimes we talk about this with our first responders, like having a calling that's what, that's a little bit of my experience.

Jennifer [00:19:26]:
And Dr. Osborne's Psychology 101 class is just feeling again, like, oh, like I. This would be giving back. This would be meaningful to me. And I feel like I do meet a lot of first responder kiddos that, you know, there is something about giving back in their careers. I think that's why in some ways you see a lot of like firefighting families, you know, like, yeah, generational, like three generationals. The same with our law enforcement families and things like that too. I think you see that or, you know, the, the dad was a state trooper and the kiddo is a dispatcher.

Jennifer [00:20:10]:
Like, you just see. I think that within families.

Ashlee [00:20:13]:
Yes.

Jennifer [00:20:14]:
And I'm going to put you on the spot, like, is there a family system there? You know, that's happening in these first responder families? I don't know if you have an.

Ashlee [00:20:23]:
Answer to that, but I mean, absolutely. Right. And I, I'm gonna be transparent. I, I am always transparent on here. Sometimes. Right. Like, I feel bad because I feel like I never want. Obviously our biggest goal here is to.

Ashlee [00:20:36]:
We love our first responders. And also there is some honesty and some truth to that. There can be some very dysfunctional systems within our families pertaining to our first responders. Right. And so I think that what's interesting about that is I think that there's the pros and cons. I think that there's a family system and family dynamic that happens with first responders. That instilling resiliency, which we've talked greatly about within your kids. Right.

Ashlee [00:21:03]:
Like, is what continues to even in the midst of sometimes chaos, because every family has the right to chaos.

Jennifer [00:21:10]:
Right?

Ashlee [00:21:11]:
Instilling that resiliency and instilling that if we're good first responder, right. We know that we're instilling these proper values of respect and integrity and all these things. And I think that's where that system comes into play because everybody in that household pretty much upholds that. Right? And so then you go into this world when you are a child and you. That's all you know, I still think that there are moments where I look at other people who didn't grow up in a first responder family, and I literally, like, my brain can't comprehend how their brain, right. Doesn't think the way that I do, like, doesn't see it in the ways that I do. But I have to remember that that emotional intelligence isn't there at that extent of. Because they didn't have to have that because it was instilled in us at a young age to think differently, to think more critically, to be aware of our surroundings, to, you know, like.

Jennifer [00:22:08]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:22:08]:
So that can be very different. Right. And so I definitely feel like that family system plays a huge impact into why people will become a first responder, if not in the helping profession. Let's talk about how many of us turn into nurses.

Jennifer [00:22:23]:
Yes.

Ashlee [00:22:24]:
Right. Coming. Yeah. Like coming from a first responders family too. Right. And then also just this notion of how do I figure out where I came from? And I think we all do that whether we're first responder families or not. Right. Of like, if I did go through things in childhood, which we all do.

Ashlee [00:22:42]:
I think one of my stepmom's most famous quotes, honestly is because she's been a social worker, now she's going on her 29th year of school. Social work is like, we are all trying to undo the things our parents did to us to an extent. Right. And so you're looking. You're always trying to figure that out. And I think that also guides it as well. Like just trying to figure out what life was like and why it was like that way. And you either fall into it in that positive role or sometimes it can be a negative.

Ashlee [00:23:07]:
So.

Jennifer [00:23:07]:
Well, I appreciate you sharing your experience and the, the positives of it and that, you know, there's still. That you and your dad are in dialogue and communicating about those things too. Like, you know, ugh, like that's a bummer that there was this conflict. But look what came of it, you know, like really positive way. And I mean, that's just such a resilient factor, for sure.

Ashlee [00:23:31]:
Yeah. And I have to be honest, Right. Like, I've obviously very much so immersed myself into this world and Now I can 100 see where it all came from with him. Right. Do I 100 agree that it was still the correct approach in life when it comes to parenting? No. But there is no handbook. We've said that a hundred times to parenting.

Jennifer [00:23:53]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:23:53]:
And so when we are so. When our brains are so just focused in, on these aspects of life, I. In terms of being a first responder and following all these rules and regulations that they do. Right. Like it's. It's very hard for them to come home and turn that off and look at their children in a different way.

Jennifer [00:24:12]:
I would agree with that for sure. And yeah, it can be really hard to navigate that and manage that feedback. To say, I feel like I'm being.

Ashlee [00:24:22]:
An epic nerd on this Episode where my thoughts are just, like, spewing out and I can get very, like, how do I put this Politically correct.

Jennifer [00:24:31]:
And I mean, I think, Ashlee, what's great about you is that you just put things the correct way. So.

Ashlee [00:24:40]:
Sure, try. I sure try. It's hard to articulate all the time, like, where that all stings. But I'm so passionate. And when I get passionate, I get like, I have to say no.

Jennifer [00:24:50]:
Like, you know, I'm a. I'm an active parent right now, and it is a little bit of like, what will I do today that he'll be talking to his thera therapist about one day? I mean, you're. You are going to just fumble through it and make all the way. And the goal, though, is, I think, I hope this is okay to say, and if I'm stepping across the line, please let me know. But, like, I mean, clearly, you and your dad, like, again, mistakes are made as a parent is to come back and say, you know, mistakes were made. And for you as a kid to say that was still a mistake. I think that's important, too. I think when I'm a therapist, at times I have people walk in with, you know, what your, Your mom, your stepmom says in terms of, like, we're just trying to unpack some of the things that happen to us as kiddos and that, like, wanting to get to that place of, like, forgiving our parent.

Jennifer [00:25:47]:
And they did the best they can, and that's a great place to be. But it also has to acknowledge, like, that something was wrong, like, some mistake was made.

Ashlee [00:25:57]:
Yeah.

Jennifer [00:25:58]:
And I think that that's important. I think I'm stumbling my way through what I'm trying to say.

Ashlee [00:26:03]:
No, I think that sounds great because there's so much truth to it. And I express this when I do give a presentation. I know I've said that before on what it was like for me to be a child of a first responder, but I express that in there so often. I'm like, it is okay as a parent to say I'm sorry.

Jennifer [00:26:18]:
Yep.

Ashlee [00:26:18]:
And though just saying I'm sorry alone, literally, sometimes that's all we want to hear.

Jennifer [00:26:24]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:26:25]:
You know, and there's a lot of power in that. Yeah. Right. Like, not to be afraid to actually say that as a parent. Right. Like I always say, would have probably cleared up a lot.

Jennifer [00:26:37]:
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I mean, I definitely understand that experience, too, for sure. And. And obviously we've talked a lot about that too. Just that, like, authoritarian my way or the highway kind of stuff. And it's just like, oh, no. Like, we're a system.

Jennifer [00:26:55]:
Right? Like, yes, we all have a role to play here. And, you know, I think we enjoy a bit of a democracy over a dictatorship.

Ashlee [00:27:07]:
Yes. Yeah. And I will say, like, there's still moments where my dad struggles with that. I got. He does. Right. Like, no, no, no. It's my way.

Ashlee [00:27:17]:
Like, no, no, no, I'm right. Like, but he has grown so much and that in that area. And I don't. Sometimes I'm like, it was on my stepmom, I think, a little bit. Because she doesn't allow him.

Jennifer [00:27:28]:
Right.

Ashlee [00:27:29]:
To get away with it. Right. But she can also talk to him because of her skill set in a way that's helpful for him to understand it and see it differently. But also, I got to give him credit because there's some truth to, like, he doesn't have to change, but he has recognized, like, I don't have to be so hard. Like, I am in retirement. I don't have to be so hard. I can be more soft and loving and open and that's not a bad thing either.

Jennifer [00:27:52]:
Yeah. So. Well, and I. I don't know, I think there's also that dynamic of when you're an adult but you're still your parents. Child. Like that something that can be. Maybe this is a different episode, but you know, that. That place of like, no, like, you're not making decisions for me.

Jennifer [00:28:12]:
I make my decisions now, you know, and I. I want your support in those decisions. Like, I'll be really honest about that. And now I can say I understand that, like, I'm not supported on every decision because maybe that wasn't the best decision for me. But, you know, sometimes you have to learn that on your own. Right.

Ashlee [00:28:31]:
Yes, I. Everything you're saying right now, I'm like, man, how true, how true. Because again, right when. And that's how. You know. And it's. I always say this too. Your kids love you.

Ashlee [00:28:44]:
They love you. Right. When we're young and speaks volume that still to this day I do that I'll seek that validation of wanting to make the right choices from him. Right. Like from my dad. But there is so much truth to that dynamic shift of like, well, I am. I am there. I'm like the dad, but I'm also now.

Jennifer [00:29:04]:
Yeah.

Ashlee [00:29:05]:
Having to let them make those choices.

Jennifer [00:29:07]:
Yeah. I had a pretty cool meeting with somebody in Dallas. And like, I mean, aside from my husband, like, the first person I wanted to share was my dad. So, I mean, I Think that there is still all the time forties, you know, and that was important to me. So I definitely think that there is something to be said for that. And again, like, I hope, Ashlee, our conversation, you know, it's about parenting and kids, but like, we're both grown ups and we still have these relationships with our first responder parents. And I think it's like, you know, how do you make it through the mistakes, you know, and still have a relationship? And because, you know, you and I have talked about this before, this sad situation of first responder parents that are estranged from their children. Like, you know, like, you gotta be able to like, work through these things and make it on the other side for sure.

Ashlee [00:30:07]:
And what would you feel if I shot back at you? That maybe some of that comes from those first responder parents showing more vulnerability to their children too?

Jennifer [00:30:16]:
I. I definitely think that's part of it. I don't know if that's my dynamic completely. Yeah, I think I probably did more of the work than somebody else.

Ashlee [00:30:25]:
No, no, I know, that's what I mean. Like, I know that like now, like, if kids, if children of first responders are listening, if you're a parent and you're a first responder listening, like, isn't there so much to be said about just like that vulnerability piece as well, of like being vulnerable with your kids?

Jennifer [00:30:41]:
Yeah.

Ashlee [00:30:42]:
Knowing that emotions are okay, allowing them to be vulnerable with you, rather than shutting it down and saying, hey, go rub some dirt on that.

Jennifer [00:30:49]:
Right, right, right. Oh, yeah, yeah. Sorry, I misunderstood. Absolutely.

Ashlee [00:30:54]:
Oh, no, you're okay. We're just shooting back and forth right now. So I put you on the spot. That wasn't. And that was literally because my brain was like, of course goes 100. And I'm like, ah, like, speaking of like, what about vulnerability up in here? Like, you know.

Jennifer [00:31:12]:
Thing to. To navigate, like, when is it appropriate to be vulnerable? And then obviously first responding careers, like, you're taught all the things to not be. So I get it for sure. Yeah, yeah.

Ashlee [00:31:27]:
And I think too, like, if children of first responders are listening, which we hope they are, just you're not alone in all that.

Jennifer [00:31:33]:
Absolutely.

Ashlee [00:31:34]:
There's so many different dynamics. There's so many frustrations. There's. There is looking at other kids and being like, how come your life is much more flexible than mine?

Jennifer [00:31:43]:
Exactly. What do you mean? Like, you got to go to Disney and not an FOP convention for summer vacation. I don't understand.

Ashlee [00:31:53]:
Yeah, yeah. Mine is still. I know I've said this before. But mine is still like, what do you mean? Or maybe I haven't said it on here. I'm not sure. But as silly as this is. What do you mean? You can call your dad dude and he doesn't get mad at you.

Jennifer [00:32:07]:
Like, oh, my gosh. I could not. Like, that's not even in, like, an imaginary.

Ashlee [00:32:12]:
Exactly.

Jennifer [00:32:13]:
Yeah.

Ashlee [00:32:14]:
In my head. Oh. Like in the still 32. And in my head, I could see his face. It was one time, one off. I learned a lesson. Right. Those eyebrows turned in.

Ashlee [00:32:24]:
And his exact statement was, I am not your dude.

Jennifer [00:32:27]:
And I was like, oh, you do not say that.

Ashlee [00:32:31]:
You know, but then my friends would say it all the time.

Jennifer [00:32:34]:
Right?

Ashlee [00:32:34]:
And I would be like, I don't get it. Why can't I say that? Like, and it's so. It's as little as that when you're a child of a first responder that you pick up on all these different things where you're just like, absolutely. You know, and it's normal. And it's normal to be sometimes angry with your parents and their strict rules, but it's also this trust in that as you grow.

Jennifer [00:32:53]:
Yeah.

Ashlee [00:32:54]:
Also learn that there was a lot of beauty in the way you grew up as well.

Jennifer [00:32:58]:
Well, and to, like, bring us back a little bit. I think that's that whole thing about career paths and the resiliency of first responder kids and, you know, the choices we make. And I think, you know, we come on and we talk about our mental health backgrounds, and I just thought it was nice for us to maybe talk a little bit of our origin stories in terms of, like, how did we get on these paths and didn't become first responders. Yeah.

Ashlee [00:33:25]:
Yeah. I think I always laugh now because I work with so many and I do so much so involved. Right. That I'm like, I don't have to. As hot as this sounds, I have the patients in the world in this. This office space that I have for therapy. But there is no way in heck you're catching me out there trying to implement the law with some of these folks. I'm like, my patience would be zero to 100.

Ashlee [00:33:50]:
I would be gone. I would be fired in two seconds. I cannot be a first responder.

Jennifer [00:33:54]:
Like, I cannot use aggressive force on your first girl.

Ashlee [00:34:01]:
They would be like, ma', am, this is not for. I just don't. I. So odd to me. But it's so funny, too. Like, I watch obviously, like, on Patrol Live. We love Rizzo. Right? Like, shout out to them, all of them on there.

Ashlee [00:34:12]:
And I'm like. Like, they're not. I don't have the patience for that. We're not. We're not doing that. Like, I laugh all the time. I'm like, this is exactly why I couldn't become a first responder because interestingly enough, they have all the patients in the world on the street, but maybe that's why they didn't have it when they came home, because.

Jennifer [00:34:31]:
Oh, yeah. I mean, I think about that with, like, nursing, like, I would be the worst nurse. I'm like, I'm sorry you don't feel well. Please go away and come back when you're better.

Ashlee [00:34:38]:
Yeah.

Jennifer [00:34:39]:
Like, no patience for that. So.

Ashlee [00:34:41]:
Right.

Jennifer [00:34:41]:
We all have our strengths and our opportunities. That's for sure. That is for sure.

Ashlee [00:34:47]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I feel like this episode is a little bit of a wild card.

Jennifer [00:34:53]:
But I love it as it always is when it's just you and I and no special guest.

Ashlee [00:34:58]:
Yeah. But I also love it because I feel like it challenges our listeners, learners.

Jennifer [00:35:02]:
Yeah.

Ashlee [00:35:03]:
Still listen, right? Listen and pull something like, isn't that the beauty of learning?

Jennifer [00:35:08]:
Yeah. You can edit this out, but I'm like, can we have a special guest, Jennifer, your stepmom on sometime?

Ashlee [00:35:16]:
Yeah.

Jennifer [00:35:16]:
Okay. No pressure.

Ashlee [00:35:21]:
I love it.

Jennifer [00:35:22]:
Ashlee's before. So we could definitely have two Jennifers. It would be okay.

Ashlee [00:35:26]:
I mean, absolutely. Oh, it's not my. Well, there are a lot of Jennifers in this world and that is. But that's because I was like, it's not my fault that my parents made me the most common name in America. But, you know, there are quite a few Jennifers too.

Jennifer [00:35:40]:
Just a couple. Just a couple.

Ashlee [00:35:44]:
Well, I think that we do have. We'll just say it out now that we do have some cool guests. Cool. Throwing it. Different guests lined up to come back on. And we still are always open for people to message us, share their stories, want to come on, share our message and of course, anything they want us to talk about on here.

Jennifer [00:36:04]:
Absolutely. And we just always appreciate our listeners.

Ashlee [00:36:08]:
Yes. And so never forget that when the call hits home, Jennifer and I are here for you. Thank you.

Jennifer [00:36:13]:
Have a good one.