Unveiling Personality: Comparing MBTI and the InterStrength Approach

In this episode of Beyond Personality Types, host Olivier Caudron and renowned expert Dr. Linda Berens explore the key differences between the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) and the InterStrength Approach. Discover why self-discovery, multiple data points, and holistic tools provide greater accuracy and meaningful insight than test results alone. Linda Berens shares her experience moving beyond traditional MBTI assessments, highlighting how multi-lens frameworks like essential motivators and interaction styles can unveil deeper personality patterns. Perfect for type practitioners and enthusiasts seeking a richer, more ethical, and transformative understanding of personality theory.

💬 Keywords

Myers Briggs Type Indicator, MBTI, Interstrength Approach, personality assessment, personality theories, self discovery, best fit, temperament, self report instruments, type patterns, psychological needs, interaction styles, cognitive dynamics, typology, essential motivators, career choice, reliability, validity, test results, self awareness, multiple lenses, personal reflection, feedback, professional development, ethical practices, data points, type code, interest areas, self discovery exercises, pattern recognition

Linda Berens [00:00:00]:
Types are fascinating patterns that are best discovered holistically.

Olivier Caudron [00:00:08]:
Welcome to Beyond Personality Types, the original Interstrings podcast. Every week we provide you with the better ways to use and talk about personality theories. I am your host, Olivier Caudron, a self discovery facilitator. With me is Dr. Linda Behrentz, internationally renowned for her innovative typology approach. Come with us beyond the indicator results to rethink what you know about personality types. Are you ready to move beyond simply handing out personality test results and start truly unveiling what lies beneath the surface of your clients and yourself? Hello and thank you for tuning in. In today's episode of Beyond Personality Types, we're diving deep into the differences between the well known Myers Briggs Type Indicator and the interstrength approach.

Olivier Caudron [00:01:23]:
If you're searching for tools, stories and new frameworks to enhance the way you talk about and use personality type theories, this episode will expand your perspective and empower you to support others with greater accuracy and depth. Let's see how this comparison will help us go beyond personality type.

Olivier Caudron [00:01:50]:
Nowadays, the MBTI stays one of the most known and used. Far from test and other indicators, there is the interstrength approach. It offers another way to unveil a personality. What is this other way? What does one get more from it? What are the differences between the two? Linda, if you are ready without further ado, let's start the comparison.

Linda Berens [00:02:18]:
Well, I'm just really excited about this word you used, unveil, because that's what we're doing. It's personality patterns are there and we're removing the veil that hides ourselves from ourselves as well as ourselves from others. I like that.

Olivier Caudron [00:02:41]:
Good.

Linda Berens [00:02:41]:
So. Well, this is a big topic here. Dear to my heart, I started out learning about temperament first and more holistically about their four patterns and the ways they become dysfunctional and then oh, and by the way, here's what they look like when they're functional. What David Kersey did was describe those four patterns and then we took the Myers Briggs Type Indicator to find out which one fit us. I took it scored INTP but 1 point INFP. In those days we didn't know a whole lot about it. They had some descriptions for each of the 16 type patterns and I did relate to both descriptions. The Myers Briggs was becoming more and more popular.

Linda Berens [00:03:30]:
We're talking about 1980. I was in this community, the association for Psychological Type that was all built around the Myers Briggs itself. Sometimes people had to point out that it was the association for Psychological Type, not The association for the Myers Briggs. Because there seemed to be a lot of confusion.

Olivier Caudron [00:03:50]:
Yes, indeed.

Linda Berens [00:03:51]:
And in those days, we took the instrument that means we gave it to people and pretty much assumed that that was what fit them. Then I started doing MBTI qualifying programs. They didn't want to do a certification, but they did a qualifying, which meant that we taught the tests and measures requirements for it to be a psychological test. In other words, you had to be a psychologist or have had certain courses in order to purchase that instrument. It was such a popular thing. It just spread like wildfire. I was always using temperament with it. The more I learned about each of the 16 types, the more I discovered that the results someone reported might not agree with what was really their best fit.

Linda Berens [00:04:38]:
So this whole concept of best fit came into popularity. I was working on ways to help people figure out what their best fit was. As I was doing these qualifying programs, people would come in, they had taken the instrument, got some results, and they reported where they fit. I would say, write that down on a piece of paper and put it in the back of your notebook. We're not taking it away from you, but we're going to do something else. In the very beginning, we were going by that and then putting people into groups. Meaningful thing happened to me in this one. Early on.

Linda Berens [00:05:13]:
It was one of the very early workshops I did. A woman, I think her name was Andrea, came up to the front of the room and said, I have to sit up here because I get in trouble all the time. I said, well, I don't mind if you get up and move around. And I kind of figured she had SP preferences or what I now call the improviser pattern. Then we put people into groups. She said her pattern was estj. That's what she said her type was. I said, well, have you ever looked at estp? And she said, no.

Linda Berens [00:05:44]:
And I just let it go with that. So she goes to the group with the people with the SJ pattern. And they were doing the report out. She was reporting out. And there were the people in this SP group. Well, I would call it improviser. But the group that was clustered, S.P. who said, was Andrea the main person? Well, yeah, we kind of let her talk.

Linda Berens [00:06:08]:
It was just before the lunch break. And so I said, why don't you take a look at this description of estp? She goes off to lunch, comes back, and right after lunch, those with ESTP preferences were supposed to present their pattern to the group. She was the only one. She read it, resonated with it, pulled it off and told the funniest story about what she was like that fit that pattern. And that was a big wake up call that the instrument is not always accurate. It's not only the Myers Briggs that's not accurate. It's all self report instruments have measurement error. One of the things about the Myers Briggs is that it does have a lot of research behind it where the data of reliability means does it do the same thing every time? Its reliability scores were pretty good.

Linda Berens [00:07:03]:
The funny thing is if we've had an interpretation before the retake, it may have been skewed to answer the same way. But I think some of the good research didn't do that. There's validity which is is it measuring what it says it measures? And notice it's called measures. This is an indicator which was hard to get across. It's really an indicator of what your preferences might be. But that got lost because it looked like a test, it smelled like a test, it was analyzed like a test, it was reported in numbers. So people, at least in western culture tend to believe it as a test. And I think that's probably fairly universal.

Linda Berens [00:07:45]:
There's a right or wrong answer. Yeah, we had to overcome that. There's no right or wrong. My results are my result. I started to notice and I wish I had collect data, but I didn't. But my gut sense of all of the Myers Briggs programs I did over the years, about 40% of the people came in and changed their mind during or after the class. It might be one letter, an extroverted or an introverted version, or it might be the whole thing, like this woman in the class. What happened with Andrea was that we didn't have a test to give people for temperament.

Linda Berens [00:08:23]:
We explained the four temperaments, had them try them on and see what fit. But because we did that after she was given her results and we related it to the results, we didn't use names. For example, we would talk about sjsp, et cetera. That would bias people. You know, you don't want to have failed the test. So it's kind of like, well, that's what I reported. We started doing self discovery and we would portray each of the four patterns. We had graphics, animated graphics, stars, house, tree and books.

Linda Berens [00:09:01]:
So we had these symbols that represented the patterns. The characteristics came up and I would tell stories. I would spend at least 10 minutes describing each of the four patterns and we would ask people to try them on. Which one do you think fits you? And we gave them note taking pages about what fits me. What fits people I know once they figured out what they related to, then we put them into temperament or essential motivators is what I call it now. Groups and gave them an activity to see if they related. Create an ad is one of those that we used. You could see the differences.

Linda Berens [00:09:33]:
And we told people if you're sorting between two, you can leave the group. We gave them lots of opportunity to change and change their minds and try these on. And I use the shoe shopping analogy all the time. And you go in and you try on a whole shoe. You don't try on just the sole. The idea is that it should feel like you. It should fit like a good shoe. We encourage people to get feedback from other people during these programs.

Linda Berens [00:10:01]:
There were five, six day programs. People would call their parents and say, let me read this to you. What do you think fits me? And they would get feedback from people who knew them well. They got feedback from the people in the group. That is how this self discovery process evolved. It was instrument assisted because we gave the instrument. We would give the instrument and then integrate the results later because we're using essential motivator names. And then later we used interaction styles and we would do those two lenses before we put the type code to it.

Olivier Caudron [00:10:37]:
Was it your goal to confirm the results of the test or your purpose at that time was already to build another way to unveil a personality?

Linda Berens [00:10:49]:
The purpose after those early experiences wasn't to confirm the instrument results. That's just a data point. In my framing and setup. We're going to do a lot of activities and we're going to be collecting lots of data points. Your instrument results is one of those. And There were about eight or 10 data points we described on this graphic. It wasn't to confirm. It was to verify the best fit pattern using multiple data points using different lenses.

Linda Berens [00:11:18]:
Each lens or model gives different kinds of information and they all match and line up.

Olivier Caudron [00:11:24]:
It is what differentiates interstrings approach from other personality tests.

Linda Berens [00:11:32]:
Yeah, there were some other people who used similar techniques those days. Qualifying programs had different methodologies. The mbti, Myers Briggs Company has their own training and I haven't been in it. So I don't know how they're doing it. The instrument itself is not intended to stand alone. That's why you have to be certified or educationally qualified to purchase it. The standards are pretty high for that. And you have to demonstrate knowing the limits of such tests or personality assessments.

Olivier Caudron [00:12:09]:
We have access to all those tests online. Talking about the MBTI is not the Official indicator. But the name appears somehow. What you just said is important because the official Myers Briggs type indicator is more than those 90 something questions. You should work with someone after getting the results and have a conversation.

Linda Berens [00:12:41]:
And there's a whole bunch of ethical practices that are taught. You don't do test and tell you don't use it for hiring or firing or any kind of selection. There are a variety of other ethical principles that are applied to using personality instruments. It is an instrument, it's an assessment. Those of us in the field try not to call it that. We call it an indicator. Isabel Myers named it an indicator just for that purpose. It was to indicate what the likely best fit is.

Olivier Caudron [00:13:12]:
Okay, that makes a huge difference.

Linda Berens [00:13:15]:
Yeah. Some of the instruments online claim to. Well, there's part of it is the framing, how well it's set up, what kind of mindset people are in. And then there's the explanation and then there is the verifying process. What fits you? In my view it's very important to make that what fits you piece just as meaty as the what does it mean piece. And that verifying process involves an openness. I've had people take our training because they couldn't figure out their best fit. Part of it was because they were looking at the processes and that's all.

Linda Berens [00:13:56]:
They weren't looking at patterns and themes, but still they could go through the 10 week course, haven't figured out and they're still sorting and they had other issues they had to deal with. Culture's one of those variables. Trauma is one of those variables. No personality instrument is going to be accurate 100% of the time.

Olivier Caudron [00:14:16]:
When did you decide to stop using the indicator or the instrument?

Linda Berens [00:14:23]:
When I found it more useful to introduce four essential motivator patterns and do self discovery with that and have them learn that as a language to talk about their differences or to do four interaction styles in a workshop and have them look at that and discover their differences. If people insisted because very often in an organization that language is around the Myers Briggs, they would ask me to do the Myers Briggs and some of my colleagues will try to talk the client out of doing the Myers Briggs because you can't do enough in a one hour session or a two hour session to be useful for one on one sessions. I have an interview process. I ask lots of questions like what did you always want to be when you grew up? I'm listening for things that you do when you're little, what comes easy to you? A whole bunch of things. I'm Listening for I listen for a whole type. Essential motivators, interaction styles and intentional drivers. And the eight functions. I listen for those as people are talking.

Linda Berens [00:15:26]:
That just takes more experience at all.

Olivier Caudron [00:15:29]:
Another difference between the Myers Briggs type indicator and the interstrings approach is the material. You provide four different booklets. You can use those booklets by yourself and you have step by step to find out the preference. You often say that you are using them or mainly one of them during a one on one session.

Linda Berens [00:15:53]:
The 16 personality types descriptions for self discovery. Toward the end of that session, I ask people to read those self portraits. There's a snapshot and an objective description that's also helpful for people. Those descriptions are based on 40 pages of transcripts for people of each type. Two men, two women answering the question what's it like to be you? And out of that we got 40 pages of transcripts per type. I culled it down to four pages and Dario Nardi refined it and got it down to one page. Sometimes I will have people have all four. Depends on how extensive they want to go.

Linda Berens [00:16:36]:
But I will usually start with my interview process and then maybe another time we'll talk about essential motivators. Then we'll talk about interaction styles. We might even talk about intentional drivers, which doesn't have a booklet yet. They have the books, they can look at them, they can verify, they can say, aha, this really fits me. I tell people, keep sitting with it. You might decide something different after you live with it for a while. I don't think I have ever said in the last 10 years, well you're this or I think this is what fits you. Rarely would I say that.

Linda Berens [00:17:13]:
And it might be when somebody comes to me and says, you know, I've tried all of these ons, could you please tell me what you think? And if I've worked with those people for a while, I can tell them, well, this one has a good chance of fitting. Never you're this. It's not my job. My job is to facilitate self discovery, not to profile somebody and tell them all the things that are about them.

Olivier Caudron [00:17:43]:
Which is not a difference with the indicator.

Linda Berens [00:17:46]:
Right. Sometimes, especially when people are starting out and they're at the novice stage, having an instrument is helpful. Helpful. It can give people some ideas. The caveat is don't give it at the beginning because people will trust the test results.

Olivier Caudron [00:18:04]:
How did you come with the idea to write those books?

Linda Berens [00:18:08]:
There were the 16 types books that the Myers Briggs company then consulting psychologist Press had. When you do workshops, the Standard is you give people handouts. We created the booklets so that they could have some resources, so that they could go and have somebody else read it and say do you think this is me? So they could get feedback from others. They would have it. People keep these. They don't just take them and throw them away. They do a handout and there are 16 descriptions in there. Personally, my experience has been that the pattern stays the same, but people will maybe relate more to one pattern than the other someday.

Linda Berens [00:18:46]:
They also can say, you know what? I think this was my contextual self was responding to because I took this in relationship to my work. You can have your friends, your spouse read those descriptions. They could even discover themselves by reading them. It isn't as rigid as just getting a report.

Olivier Caudron [00:19:07]:
Yeah, and there are some exercises also.

Linda Berens [00:19:10]:
Yeah, there are a few exercises. There's self discovery exercise. One has some relationship questions. What do you dislike or like about the person that you have a disagreement with? How's it related to their type pattern?

Olivier Caudron [00:19:26]:
The Myers Briggs had for purpose to help people get a job during the recession.

Linda Berens [00:19:33]:
It was during World War II when they were trying to get people matched for their jobs. And yet the ethics of it are that you can never use it for hiring or firing or selection of any kind. But her purpose was so people would know themselves better so they could look at what they were doing. It wasn't so that they could get a label that could be slotted into something by an organization.

Olivier Caudron [00:19:58]:
What's the position of the interstrength approach regarding job or career? Let's say career?

Linda Berens [00:20:05]:
Well, if somebody wants to hire somebody for a job, you can look at the talents or the skills that are needed to do that job and you can use information about the pattern in your job description. And that's especially true for temperament, essential motivators or interaction styles. You can't give someone a test or even do a self discovery process with them and then decide whether to hire them or fire them because someone may have more skill than someone who doesn't have a particular preference in the thing the job's going to require because they got to train. And maybe they're just one of those really bright people who can do almost anything. All kinds of reasons for career choice. The value is to know what are your falling off the log skills, what are the things that you just do naturally, what are the things that you enjoy doing and what kind of pleasure does that bring to you. For example, I was a school psychologist. I was elementary school, kindergarten through eighth grade.

Linda Berens [00:21:13]:
I Had to assess IQ tests around potential capacity and their skill level and then make a recommendation to committee about whether this student should be in a special ed class. I had to do counseling and coaching for kids who were disruptive or having trouble. I had to explain things to parents. My core psychological needs were somewhat met, but not completely because I had rules I had to follow that I didn't like. Had a graph with a diagonal line. And if the kids results came above the line or below the line, depending on whether or not they got help, then you put kids into a class where they have a label, learning disabilities, et cetera, et cetera. All of that kind of bureaucracy. I didn't like it didn't meet me because I saw flaws in it.

Linda Berens [00:22:05]:
So I wasn't using my talents, my strategic talents. I saw that things could go wrong and that they were going wrong. I liked helping people. I even liked learning about some different kinds of tests, like projective tests and things like that. But when I got budgeted out and I thought, what do I want to do? I didn't want to find another job like that. I also thought if I have to do therapy, because I was by then a licensed marriage family therapist, so I had to do therapy every day. I didn't want to do that either. But I did want to teach people about differences.

Linda Berens [00:22:39]:
I formed a company with my good friend to take that information to business and industry. Having my understanding of what my personality is like and what's really important to me helps me know what environments are going to be very stressful. Likely to be stressful.

Olivier Caudron [00:22:57]:
With the interstrength approach, each book put the reader in a context. Essential motivator is about to find out what moves moves you. Interaction styles is how you do what you do. Cognitive dynamics is how you think about things. That's totally different of taking the instrument because the instrument is a series of questions.

Linda Berens [00:23:22]:
Yes. So the point here is that one key aspect of the inner strength approach is that it is multiple lenses. Whether it's essential motivators, which is really how we're deeply motivated. Core psychological needs and talents that help us get those needs met. And that gives us a particular kind of information. Strategy, tactics, logistics and diplomacy say a lot about it. You can be a physician and use diplomacy primarily, and that's the part of it that's the most satisfying. You could be a surgeon and have diplomacy be a key part of it.

Linda Berens [00:23:59]:
Once you've got the skills, maybe you have a tactical approach, like working in emergency medicine to respond to the needs of the moment. When those core needs are not met, strategy, tactics, logistics and diplomacy. We have severe stress within our action styles that tells us how we interact with others. It's a lot about our primary energy and even the way we tend to hold our bodies. By knowing my interaction style that goes with my whole type pattern that I tend to be behind the scenes means that, okay, that's why that job didn't work. Doesn't mean I can't do it or someone with my pattern can't do it. I'm not going to any place where I have to initiate a lot of conversation and I don't get enough information to integrate. I want an opportunity to integrate a lot of stuff.

Linda Berens [00:24:49]:
The cognitive processes tells me a lot about what I'm going to lead with and what I'm going to support with and where my developmental edge is. And then if you have this other lens called intentional Drivers, that helps me know. In fact, it helps me know a little bit about how I tend to screw up because I'm constantly designing and redesigning and fixing stuff when maybe I could better spend more time writing a new curriculum for a class. You have much more information with this approach than you have from just the eight functions. If you want to look at that, or from any kind of instrument that doesn't give you the other pieces of information.

Olivier Caudron [00:25:32]:
Yeah, you just have to accept to spend a little bit more time.

Linda Berens [00:25:37]:
It is worth it because the end result is increased self awareness, which pays off in many ways.

Olivier Caudron [00:25:46]:
As we wrap up today's conversation on the Myers BRICS type indicator versus Interstrings, it's clear that our understanding of personality is enriched when we move beyond labels and quick assessments. For practitioners and type enthusiasts, Linda reminds us that effective self discovery is about unveiling, not confining our true patterns. The mbti, with its depth and research. Research offers valuable insight, but it's most meaningful when used as an indicator, not a final verdict. And as we've learned, real growth happens when we engage in a process that includes multiple data points, personal reflection and opportunities for dialogue and adjustment. The Interstrengths approach, with its self discovery tools and multiple lenses, essential motivators, interaction styles and more, empowers practitioners to guide others not just to a type code, but towards a richer self knowledge. This process respects the complexity of each individual. Embracing that best fit can only emerge through exploration, feedback and openness.

Olivier Caudron [00:27:12]:
If you're working with clients or reflecting on your own path, let this episode encourage you to trust the unfolding of self awareness. Use assessments as starting point. If you want, not end points, facilitate experiences, ask deeper questions, and invite people to try on patterns like a pair of shoes until the fit feels right. In the end, your practice will be more ethical, transformative, and attuned to real diversity of human experience. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If you enjoyed this discussion, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave a rating and review to help others find the show. Remember to subscribe if you don't want to miss next week's episode. You can also follow us on Facebook and Instagram at beyondpersonalitytimes.

Olivier Caudron [00:28:23]:
Thanks again for tuning in. We are Olivia Olivier Codron and Linda Behrens. Stay curious and eager to learn until we meet again in our next episode.