Ep. 8 - In conversation with Tushar Pradhan - On Heartfulness Meditation

Tushar Pradhan: [00:00:00] When we talk about heartfulness, we are talking about our ability toaccess the soul of the spirit, which is in some way, and it is described in many ways, that it the, that the heart is the seat of the soul. And when we try to do meditation on the heart chara, it's essentially the starting point of our journey.

Rajeev: Hello, and welcome back to a brand new episode of Spinning Values. A podcast initiative by Beekaylon Synthetics. We all live busy lives filled with deadlines, milestones, and whatnot. Our productivity and careers all comes down to how we handle the pressures and stressors of life.

Rajeev: In this episode, Kartik Chaudhry sits down with Tushar Pradhan, a practitioner of Heartfulness Meditation.

Rajeev: Tushar shares his personal journey and explains the differences between [00:01:00] Heartfulness Meditation and Mindfulness. The conversation also explores the relevance of Heartfulness Meditation in the corporate setting and how it can help individuals achieve personal excellence and reduce stress.

Kartik Chaudhry: Hi Tushar, welcome, Spinning Values. this is a podcast that Beekaylon started a couple of years back and we have received some great response. Initially, we had only focused on textile industry as a whole. But as we were into it, we realized that, we shouldn't limit ourselves and we need to also look into, the corporate structures, the business, the general, happiness of the employees, and you know how to keep the workplace happier

Kartik Chaudhry: despite it being a textile thing, we don't wanna be, industry specific. We wanna sort of open it up, slightly more so in that kind of transition and in that, optimism, we welcome you. We've spoken [00:02:00] earlier and, I understand what you do a little bit, but for listeners, why don't you introduce yourselves and tell us what you do.

Tushar Pradhan: Yeah, thanks. Thanks a lot, Kartik and wonderful to be here on this podcast. really nice to hear what you guys are doing. trying to spread values. without being industry specific, I think it all is a human element, I guess. So that's great. just a little bit about myself. I was, the chief investment officer at HSBC mutual fund for the last 14 years ending in April this year.

Tushar Pradhan: and now I've begun, a little bit of an office of myselfuh, trying to get into the investment market, as an individual. But, prior to that, I've always been associated with the investing field, right from the time that I did my MBA in the US, and then joined a couple of,companies in the US, before coming back to India. And I joined HDFC, as soon as I came back in 95, way back. And, they had a investing advisory business, which was [00:03:00] not really like a formal thing, but, at that time, investing was not really, institutional investing was not that formal. In fact, there were no mutual funds at that time either. so they had an advisory to a foreign investor, which was incorporated under the Ministry of Finance rules. So it was a very, very early stage. public investing kind of role. And thankfully, I, kind of, parachuted into that role as soon as I came back. And, since then, I was with HDFC when they launched the mutual fund.

Tushar Pradhan: I became a fund manager for them, then in between I joined a company called AIG, which also launched a mutual fund. So essentially to a very, large extent, I've been associated with the investment field, largely stock markets, bond markets, that kind of thing. And, the real part which I feel was important in my journey was that, I adopted a spiritual practice along the way and it coincided with actually my coming back to India.

Tushar Pradhan: And I feel that, I owe that a lot to my ability to, stay steady [00:04:00] during this very mad field of investing throughout this year. So that's a little bit about myself and,really happy to share whatever I can.

Tushar Pradhan: Okay, so as I. Correct me if I'm wrong. You are also, apart from being an asset manager, that has been your career and your full-time job, you have now become an expert in heartful meditation and mindfulness, if I can say so. So you touched upon this a little bit, that you came from there and you felt that there is a need of spiritual, element to the process.

Kartik Chaudhry: So what inspired this change in your professional journey?

Tushar Pradhan: No, thanks again for that question, but let me clarify, mindfulness is a very well known It's a very well known practice. method of, I won't say meditation, but contemplation, which has a lot of scientific data and published papers, et cetera, and it's accepted across the world, especially large corporates actually [00:05:00] use mindfulness, there are mindfulness apps, et cetera.

Tushar Pradhan: What I'm talking about is, something called as heartfulness, which is a technique of meditation, which is different from mindfulness. And it was again, going back to where, this institution began, to 1944, where it was developed as a method of, meditating, in today's world. Because usually what happens is meditation, you associate with longer beards and Himalayas and some sort of very strict practices.

Tushar Pradhan: Which initially,people are put off by because, we are leading normal lives and we don't seem to think that there is a link at all to say that why should we meditate, et cetera. So heartfulness is a method which teaches people to meditate as they are, wherever they are in whichever profession, whatever creed, caste, gender they are, absolutely regardless of any background or any training. And that is what heartfulness very briefly [00:06:00] is. And, to share with you what really inspired me to, meditate in the first place is, a little bit of a, I would say early success in life. So many times people either encounter a very dramatic, personal tragedy or a situation which, helps them to reflect and say that, look, is life all about this?

Tushar Pradhan: because generally we are all in a materialistic world and typically a person who's educated tries to get better at wherever he is, gets a job or tries to make more money or whatever. I mean, success is always defined by, some ideal that such people take for themselves. For me, success was, as a very young boy, having been influenced by Hollywood, I had seen a movie called Wall Street and I was very impressed by, What was going on there?

Tushar Pradhan: And I said, look, that's my goal. I want to be on Wall Street. I want to manage money. Though I was from a very middle class background and I had no way or hope to see that, how could I really be there? But as circumstances took me being [00:07:00] an average, person, etc. There was a way out.

Tushar Pradhan: I did my GMAT and I got acceptances from some universities in the U. S. And surprise, surprise, my father,took a big loan to, help me get there and I began my MBA journey. I did my MBA in the US and it was a difficult time in the markets there. I graduated in 92, which was the start of the Iraq war and the recession of the US.

Tushar Pradhan: So jobs were very scarce, but I managed. And in 1994, when I was about 25, 26 years old, I was on Wall Street. I had a card which said Tushar Pradhan blah, blah, blah, 95 Wall Street. And then I stopped in my tracks . I did not know what to do. because that was my aim, that was my goal, that was everything that I wanted to be.

Tushar Pradhan: And here I was. And I then started to reflect that look, life cannot only be this. there has to be something more to this. And I don't mean this only like a profession, but I mean it as in a holistic way [00:08:00] of living. I said there is family, there is emotions, there is career, there is everything. But there is something else beyond all of this, which somehow, we may have missed out.

Tushar Pradhan: And I started my search from there. Of course, my search led to some books. I started reading about spirituality, about, the essence that we carry, et cetera. But they were all very academic, very bookish. They did not give me much satisfaction. If at all, actually they whetted my appetite to see whether, there's anything more to this than just, other people's experiences and what about my experience.

Tushar Pradhan: So. When I came back to India for some other reason, as in family circumstances, et cetera, brought me back here. I said, well, this is the mother of, meditation, right? This is the country where it all began. So maybe I might find some experience here. So I, I started searching. Things were again, not to my liking because again, for the same reasons I explained to you earlier, most of these methods are very archaic or they are very arcane or they are [00:09:00] very, religious or they are.

Tushar Pradhan: something very, foreboding, for somebody who's like a modern person to say, okay, let me start meditating. These things are not easy. And then I stumbled upon this, method, I really stumbled upon it. And I found it extremely useful,very, very, very practical , but at the same time, very spiritual.

Tushar Pradhan: So, so just a very simple example of what spiritualism or religion is. Now, spirit, as we call it, it's something which drives the machine, right? So we call it the ghost in the machine or whatever it is. So if I were to say that as a human being and like me alive, and then there is a dead body next to me.

Tushar Pradhan: And if I were to ask you, what is the difference between the two of us? There is hardly any difference because that dead body will have all the organs that I have. It will have eyes. It will have a brain. It will have everything. There is something missing in that dead body, and that's why we don't even refer to that person as a person, it's a dead body. So what is that? That is something what we call as the spirit, which enters the human [00:10:00] body as soon as the birth of a baby is, and in fact when the birth of the baby is done, which is a physical, entity, but everyone is waiting for that baby to do something before they can celebrate, and that is they wait for it to cry.

Tushar Pradhan: So if the baby does not cry, that means it's just a physical body and it's a stillborn and everybody cries. So which means something enters the body and we don't really know when it enters, but gives us a signal that look, I'm here. And when the person passes away and the dead body that I'm talking about, they're also that person or that entity passes away from the body.

Tushar Pradhan: So which means someone is journeying through this, lifetime. And this body grows old, et cetera, and then that entity again leaves the body. So that is something which is spirituality. Which is to get to know our essence of what we are made of because that decides everything that we can do. That tells my intellect, that trains my mind, everything.[00:11:00]

Tushar Pradhan: But most of the time, most human beings, about 99 percent of the time, are unaware of that entity because we identify ourselves with either our intellect, with our bodies, with our minds or whatever. But we don't identify ourselves with that entity because it remains mysterious. So that was the spirituality I was interested in But typically when you type the word spirituality in Google or whatever, you just get thrown off in millions of directions. And that is something which I was not very comfortable with. So, so that is how it led me to exploring this on my own. And this method allowed me to really do all of that without being associated, without being.

Tushar Pradhan: bracketed or labeled in any other way. So again, a long answer to your short question, but that's really what inspired me to go forward on this.

Kartik Chaudhry: Got it. Couple of points. First of all, just to be clear, the movie was Wall Street and not Wolf of Wall Street

Tushar Pradhan: Thankfully that movie came much [00:12:00] later.

Kartik Chaudhry: yeah. then, obviously, I mean, right now the,the way Google search engine and the SEO works anything, try and search for, it might not be the right answer to your question It's whoever has done good SEO will pop in on your home page. Thirdly, yes. So what you're, I think what you're talking about is, the age old question of consciousness. Like, we have in human physics research, scientific research, we've been able to mostly figure out what everything is, what atoms are, what life is. But one thing remains a grey area is what exactly is consciousness? And like all the philosophies, whether its ancient vedic philosophies whether it's Tibetan Buddhism, whether it's Indian Buddhism or even Western, philosophers, they've all always try and, figure out what exactly is that consciousness and what exactly is that point when something becomes aware or alive. So. That is,an age old question [00:13:00] that everyone's trying to kind of find, find the answer to.

Kartik Chaudhry: So interesting. So what I, now, I specifically wanna come to heartful meditation. So how is it different from, say, a mindful techniques?

Tushar Pradhan: That's, again, I must give a little bit of a background before we jump into this. So mindfulness as the word describes. This is being mindful of every action. So this is basically based on the Vipassana method that Gautam Buddha actually discovered or shared with the world about what his discovery was.

Tushar Pradhan: That we have to do everything with a conscious mind. That is, like for example, if I just pick this phone up without thinkiing, That's a subconscious act. Every time that, I just pick up the phone, I don't think that I want to pick up the phone. It's just a habit

Tushar Pradhan: That is something called a subconscious. And remarkably, about 95 percent of what we do in the day, this is coming from some research report, but it is, I would believe that, [00:14:00] is all done subconsciously.

Tushar Pradhan: Including the driving that we do, including, The eating that we do, we're just not applying our mind. So the Buddha decided and discovered that when you put our mind to any action that we do, it's a different experience. whether you are being in the present or, all of those things that are associated with the now, those are the things associated with mindfulness.

Tushar Pradhan: It is about just being aware of our consciousness, of how it is changing all the time. And that is mindfulness, the way I understand it, the way. it's described tough to do, because, you slip into subconsciousness very easily. Heartfulness on the other way is something very different.

Tushar Pradhan: So I don't know how much you are aware of the eightfold path that Patanjali discovered, the Ashtang Yoga, which is in one way, a way to understanding yourself, right? So it starts from Yama, Niyama, then it goes to Asana, [00:15:00] then it goes to Pranayama, then it goes to Pratyahara and, then to Pratyahara and then to Dharana and to Dhyana and Samadhi. So these are the eight steps along the way. And, if you read the book in its original sense, it's in Sanskrit, it's very difficult to understand what, why all of these steps to get to the point where Samadhi appears, which is the last stage.

Tushar Pradhan: Then slowly you understand, and there are various books which actually demystify them.

Tushar Pradhan: One which I would recommend is one written by one Mr. Deshpande. It's called the Authentic Yoga . And in that book, of course, even Vivekananda has... Done a very short description of what the eight four path is in this, or a way it starts with your ability to sit still.

Tushar Pradhan: Now, the whole problem about being not able to understand what's happening inside is that our mind is very outward looking and it is very distracted most of the time. So how do I first of all, bring the mind to some regulation before I can go inward, [00:16:00] right? That's the big deal. And. In the eightfold path, it starts from Yama.

Tushar Pradhan: Yama means getting rid of, right? that can be, something like not doing certain bad things, right? So why is it so necessary? And, one wonders why are there so many steps before you can reach the Dhyana? And then the ultimate state, which is of, Samadhi and then we realize it is all to do with a preparation. So the Yama means to not do certain things, and the nyama means to do certain things.

Tushar Pradhan: Which are good. And then Asana is what we are associated with, and we know about yoga, asana and sitting, in, in certain, poses, et cetera. Then there is the pranayama, which is the regulation of the breath. and then it goes on to, ra, which is, an inward looking attitude, et cetera.

Tushar Pradhan: Now you wonder why there are those steps, because still you purify your physical acts. till you purify your breath, till you purify your body, you are unable to see the inside. That is [00:17:00] the concept. And many times this purification can take a year, or maybe a lifetime, uh, simply the fact that, you will do certain things which are good, which is, you'll speak the truth or you will, I will say follow Sacha, which is cleanliness.

Tushar Pradhan: But all of these things are necessary to be able tokind of have that purity.

Tushar Pradhan: Inside of us to be able to experience what is within. So this is the reason why we have all of these steps before we actually come, to the point where we can meditate. And heartfulness is a way where we begin from the seventh, of the eightfold path and we start with Dhyana. Now you can imagine which means that all of the requirements which were prescribed from the Vedic times.

Tushar Pradhan: You are actually jumping across to meditation right away because of a wonderful concept called transmission, which allows a newcomer for not having done any of the [00:18:00] practices before, or no preparation required with the help of a trainer. heartfulness seeker, someone who wants to try it, can meditate from the first day onwards, which is, which is, almost like a miraculous thing.

Tushar Pradhan: And unless someone actually does that and experiences it, it is just me talking about it, so, so this is the great thing about Heartfulness and how I would distinguish it from mindfulness, which I described what that was and what heartfulness is to be able to meditate in this modern world without having to do all of the practices which were there before.

Kartik Chaudhry: So I have this question. Just a personal question. mind has a certain function in the body, heart has a certain function in the body.

Kartik Chaudhry: I mean I've heard some theories that there are some neurons in the heart as well, and it has the ability to, depending on your emotion and it has the ability to circulate. So is it somewhere connected to that when you say Heartfullness like, are we using that capability of the heart in this meditation?

Tushar Pradhan: It's a wonderful question, Kartik, [00:19:00] so here, when we mean the heart, it is actually the spiritual heart, or I would say the core of my being, While the heart had, its, has its own uses. And, it's also quite linked to the fact that if the heart stops, then the whole body stops.

Tushar Pradhan: there are people who are brain dead, but they're alive. So the heart is the most vital organ from a physical perspective as well. But here, when we talk about the heart as heartfulness, it is, it's about the heart chakra. so a little bit about the spiritual anatomy that we have. There are various chakras, so animals have also the muladhar, the swadisthan and all of those chakras going up to the heart chakra.

Tushar Pradhan: But the human being is the only one who has the heart chakra. and then the chakras above that is what the human being is capable of reaching. So that's why, heartfulness begins from the heart chakra, which means we are assuming that, our lower, more animalistic tendencies are already behind us.

Tushar Pradhan: But just a simple answer to your question here. When we talk about heartfulness, we are talking about our ability [00:20:00] toaccess the soul of the spirit, which is in some way, and it is described in many ways, that it the, that the heart is the seat of the soul.

Tushar Pradhan: And when we try to do meditation on the heart chara, it's essentially the starting point of our journey,

Kartik Chaudhry: Okay, so that clears my question. I mean, what I understand, is that you work with a lot of corporate clients and you work with employees who have nine to five also is unfair. Nine to seven, nine to nine kind of jobs. So how do you see this practice some of these individuals in a corporate or professional setting.

Tushar Pradhan: No, I think that's a wonderful question because ultimately we can talk about philosophy, we can talk about self-discovery, et cetera, but I think for most people , who have no inkling interest or anything like that, I think what is most important to understand is that what are we trying to do in our material life?

Tushar Pradhan: We want to excel. We want to be better at what we are. And[00:21:00] there are various ways of attempting to become better at what we are. So either we can, become intellectually more advanced, take on more hard courses in terms of skills. we can, you know, try to train ourselves to think better, you could take a degree or you can take, youyou know, something to better yourself. But at the root of it all is the emotion. Right, so, so I can be a PhD, but somehow I get depressed and all of that knowledge of no use right? On the other hand, if I'm driven, if my heart tells me, and this is where the heart also comes as a means of guidance, is that my heart is telling me to do something and I'm inspired, my intuition starts to tell me that this is what I need to do.

Tushar Pradhan: that person, whether he has any educational background or any institutional support, he manages to make himself a success and feel, pretty happy about what he's done. And he's an asset to society. So the whole crux of the whole thing [00:22:00] about trying to be a better person to excel at what we are doing really resides in the heart.

Tushar Pradhan: And it's not the brain. it is not anything to do with,how, know, educated we are, or how better we are at expressing ourselves. It's something to do with the heart, and I think that is something very critical for everyone. So what we do in these corporate engagements is to make people aware that whatever HR programs, whatever self development programs you will do.

Tushar Pradhan: Essentially, it'll boil down to your own self and how motivated you feel and how happy and contended you feel inside before you can try to do something outside. And the way to do that is to have a spiritual practice where you focus and you contemplate and you sit with yourself for some time, If you're able to achieve that sense of calm, peace and that connection with your inner self, you'll do wonders. That's the whole key about trying to, you know, get corporate people involved in the spiritual practice [00:23:00] because . That's a means of personal excellence. And of course it can apply to anybody why only corporates.

Tushar Pradhan: It can apply to really practically any human being on earth. But in corporates, we are structured in a way that you can collect people of, like mind of a similar goal, et cetera. And then they're motivated to practice it for that reason. So that's how, we offer heartfulness to

Kartik Chaudhry: Okay, so also, I mean, it's said especially in a country like India, which is a growing economy and you know. We are often advised to not look at the Western, work-life balance kind of conversations that are happening and just keep our heads down and keep working. So, the corporate world,is often associated with stress and high demands.

Kartik Chaudhry: So what do you like, are there any specific challenges you think that corporate clients and employees often face before they, they think that can be addressed through meditation.

Tushar Pradhan: Yeah, I think that's also a wonderful question because each of the corporates [00:24:00] have a different style, right? So there are these very top down oriented companies. There are companies which are collaborative in nature. There are, you know, these days CEOs reinvent their companies to run them the way they want.

Tushar Pradhan: And of course, companies also are very objective specific. So whether you're a finance company, whether you're a manufacturing company. it's very a diverse kind of,environment and what helps to understand is that is the company driving the person to excellence, which is rarely the case. you hardly come across, even if they're the best companies to work for so many layers between what the CEO wants to achieve, what the company wants to achieve, and eventually how the

Tushar Pradhan: Employee gets motivated at his role about what he has to do in the whole project, right? So there's a lot of loss and especially the larger the company, the bigger is the objective loss in terms of what am I supposed to do at my role, which will help my company do better, and even if [00:25:00] the company does better, how does that benefit me some way, et cetera, et cetera.

Tushar Pradhan: So there's a, it's a lot of noise out there. I think heartfulness practices help people to understand that regardless of where the company's going. It is essential to understand personal excellence. It is important to understand this issue that no matter where you are in the hierarchy and whether you where you wish to be, your personal attitude really matters.

Tushar Pradhan: Whether the company achieves a certain goal or not, that's not so essential, but your contribution is more important. And essentially these practices go then beyond, any corporate style because the person realizes that . It's me who drives the whole engine, and it's about me. It's not about the company.

Tushar Pradhan: And when I start to do well, naturally the company has to start to feel that impact. So I think that is something that we try to emphasize. So Heartfulness actually then works very individually. It's actually a person to person [00:26:00] training, but companies can adopt that to help them achieve a certain goal or bring, high performance teams together or

Tushar Pradhan: introduce heartfulness to the very senior team, et cetera, whatever they feel like. So it's an application and so far we have not really worked out, an exact terms how to offer it to which part of the organization. but we offer that as a, absolutely free service to,to humanity in that sense.

Tushar Pradhan: And whoever, in whichever manager figures this out, they can apply it to, to work. So how we started is that people like me, right? I work in an organization and I know the impact of it. So I say, look, my team, why don't we meditate together? And that's how it began. someone higher up in the hierarchy, they can decide, oh, I now want to introduce it to my plant workers you know, if they're more motivated, more calmer, they understand what they really have to do.

Tushar Pradhan: From a personal responsibility perspective, that'll be good for me. So then they introduce them, to large,audiences and large groups like most. So, so it really depends, [00:27:00] and that's why I say that it's not suited for any one company or one style or anything. It is about individual excellence and it's about how people become aware of their contribution to the overall organization's goals.

Kartik Chaudhry: so I think now we're sort of approaching the end part of the conversation and we'll start wrapping up, but, my question to you is suppose I am a, a

Kartik Chaudhry: Manager, at a say, software company or a textile company, let's say textile company, maybe I'm an HR manager. if I have to have this conversation with you and if I'm still looking for something for my plant workers, uh, how do you think you have structured your,this heartful meditation course?

Tushar Pradhan: So, as I said, it's a, it's something which applies to every, level of the organization. So when I approach HR, it's a little bit of a challenge because HR by itself has, their own views in terms of, how they intervene and how their own metrics are, used to measure their effectiveness, et [00:28:00] cetera.

Tushar Pradhan: So, I don't think we have an answer to that. What we do have is that we have, three levels of programs that we offer. One is the program at the very senior level, which, we have a institute actually inside of our headquarters in Hyderabad. And the offering is called And the Kaushalam part is where, very senior executives are trained by some very good management trainers, globally.

Tushar Pradhan: Also, they also happen to be heartfulness practitioners, so they offer their services absolutely free of charge to the institute. Of course, the institute charges something for that level program. It's a residential program. And then you can take, that level program as an HR manager, he can decide that.

Tushar Pradhan: If he wants, more of a larger participation or he wants some, part of the organization to be a more effective for whatever problem that he may have thought, he can just introduce the basic method, which is the method of heartfulness, meditation, which is a practice which is given to people.

Tushar Pradhan: And that could be a [00:29:00] starting point for an HR Manager as well. . So it really depends up to, what he wants to do. Like for example, we are going to do a program, beginning next week with, one, public sector organization. and they wanted us to have speakers, say talk about stress management or eating mindfully some subjects like that, which is of, popular

Tushar Pradhan: Kind of interest. And then that we segue into saying that, look, all of these things are very critical and we explain to people about how stress works, et cetera. And then we say that the effective way of actually overcoming stress is understanding oneself about what are the stressors for me specifically.

Tushar Pradhan: And then, we introduce them, the practice. So it's actually a range. So I gave you those three options. One is that we approach the very senior level and then we have a . stated program, our residential program, we can have, small groups of people introduce that, the method to them simply anywhere.

Tushar Pradhan: Or we can have a structured, session of, five or six or 11, subjects, [00:30:00] which are of public interest. And then we take them through that, and then we allow them to experience a practice over these, six or 11 sessions as long as the company would want it. So that's the offering that we have right now.

Kartik Chaudhry: Thank you Tushar so much again for giving your valuable time and sharing these things and insights with us. I'm sure after listening to it, a lot of people will be curious to know about this technique and they would want to let their employees and themselves experience this. Just before we say bye, like if you can tell us where people can find you is there a website, are you on Linkedin, if yes, then what can people look for all of that stuff.

Tushar Pradhan: Yeah, absolutely. I think, the first thing I can share with is our main website, which is, heartfulness.org, where the basic practices and everything related to what I spoke about is available. we also have, uh, our presence on Facebook, on, on LinkedIn, our global guide, his name is Kamlesh Patel.

Tushar Pradhan: He also goes by the name of Daaji. So Daaji is [00:31:00] also available on . LinkedIn, Facebook, et cetera. His, public profile is available. People can check out, whatever he's saying. So he's got these videos. There are YouTube videos. If you type heartfulness, you'll get a large base of, knowledge available to you, and you can just check what you want.

Tushar Pradhan: But I think the principle website is, heartfulness org, where it, offers, . Information about the basic practice, et cetera. I think that should be a good starting point.

Kartik Chaudhry: thank so much for being Spinning Values.

Tushar Pradhan: My pleasure. Thank you.

Rajeev: Thank you to Tushar, for being on Spinning Values. So that's a wrap play episode eight. We hope you liked this episode. Do like, share and follow this podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen to your podcast. This is an initiative by Beekaylon Synthetics. Produced by Inscape Media. Hosted by Kartik Chaudhry. And produced by Rajeev Nedumaran. Take care of, and we will see you on the next episode.