Amrish Shahi - Ep. 10

[00:00:00] Amrish Shahi: when we start to look at the brand we're leading in this space, they really see that I want to see the yarns first, what can be done the yarn and then they will say, Oh, interesting yarn. If this is very interesting yarn, I might not require to do anything, apart from taking this yarn and just knit it.

[00:00:17] Amrish Shahi: Or weave it to make an interesting fabric. So, and the designers who are looking at that fabric, they said, wow, this yarn and this fabric is amazing. I don't require to do any design value. So can you imagine that if the either fabric, the yarn level, if the innovation is coming, then the next gen is not required to do anything.

[00:00:35] Rajeev: Hello, and welcome to episode 10 of the spinning values podcast. An initiative by Beekaylon synthetics. This is a show where we talk to thought leaders innovators and change-makers in the world of textiles and business.

[00:00:48] Rajeev: This episode of the little special, because for the first time in this podcast, we have a designer in our midst - Amrish Shahi. He is a Goa-based designer with a [00:01:00] difference.He strives to make a difference from the Yarn to the end product. He's the founder of the simple life startup. And we are in conversation with Amrish Shahi.

[00:01:11] Rajeev: Thanks, Amrish. Thanks for coming on the Spinning Values podcast, which is a initiative by Beekaylon. It's a pleasure having you on this show. And incidentally, you're the first designer of the show. This is episode number 10. So it's pretty significant. And looking at your, your profile, what interests me is that you look at fashion and the design process.

[00:01:36] Rajeev: From the yarn level which is what we want to explore in this podcast because there is not some That's something bit unusual, right? So let's start with, your career and how you got, started in this design industry.

[00:01:54] Amrish Shahi: First of all, thanks a lot for inviting me because like, we've been doing work, but, really we get a [00:02:00] chance to speak about how we work differently. So idea here is that when we speak to you, we would like to analyze some of the people who are working end to end from like a, that's a design is very complex process, but lots, some of the peoples are, some of the designers are only working end to end.

[00:02:16] Amrish Shahi: So. it will be celebrating those designers who are actually putting a lot of effort to work end to end, not just a part of it. So thanks a lot for initiating this. my design journey started, approximately 22 years back when, we, it was a little unheard of at that point of time of getting into NIFT.

[00:02:34] Amrish Shahi: So I got into NIFT. And usually at the 20, 22 years back, when, when you used to talk to parents, they used to say, yeah, engineering and,do you want to become a tailor? So I said, no, I don't want to be Taylor, but it's a very different thing. So can you imagine 20, 22 years back, people are still want to join a design course.

[00:02:51] Amrish Shahi: It was pretty revolutionary for my, batches by my seniors also because they cut the clutter and instead of going to medicine or engineering or [00:03:00] MBA, it was hot topic MBA at that point of time. So we got into design. So yeah, we become tailors. Yeah. So, so basically the idea was that my main, so I slowly worked in industry, but I tried to find out my niche, working, differently from others, starting to work on the trend forecasting a lot.

[00:03:18] Amrish Shahi: And it was required for India because most of the trend forecasting doesn't happen in India at all. We use. international trend forecasting. So yeah, so I started to work, especially working with the design, design space for 15 design leader, mostly heading the designer design brands. I try to, cut the clutter and try to work differently at Fangert, Faggart of it.

[00:03:40] Rajeev: right. And you have worked with, domestic brands, foreign brands, international brands. How is it working across those, International brands and domestic brands. What's the difference?

[00:03:51] Rajeev: How is that gap?

[00:03:53] Amrish Shahi: we are still, we are far away to be honest, like still, I see the global brands are obviously everyone, [00:04:00] everybody wants a ROI, but they are very clear. The international brands are really clear that they want return on investment, pretty sharp, pretty clear. So they, were in my experiences where I work with international and domestic brands, So they, international brands are not penny wise pound foolish.

[00:04:16] Amrish Shahi: They are not, they know that where the buck is and they will invest there. And the way it is pretty sharp in, getting out of places where they don't want to be very clear. in India, we pay a lot of emotional content. Still the five, if I go to a lot of brands in India or the mills in India, this, they have a lot of values, different values for that matter.

[00:04:34] Amrish Shahi: They, the emotional, the people are, they want to retain people. a part of, efficiency is efficiency. They don't consider that the valuation is quite different. So sometimes they lose, sometimes they win, but they put energies differently in India, international brands. They're very, cutthroat performances are very good.

[00:04:51] Amrish Shahi: similarly, the raises and perks are very different. So, yeah. So there are different structures, different ways people, people are there in both of these segments in India, but yeah, [00:05:00] these are the major differences is where. We come across, I work with international brand, very to the precise, very professional, but they're very ruthless also Indian emotional.

[00:05:09] Amrish Shahi: So that's how it's kind of divided. A lot of Indian brands are shipping up, but still that emotional content never go away from India. it's our roots. So yeah. So that's, let's celebrate that also.

[00:05:18] Rajeev: So how did your interest in yarn start? Like, normally designers are known for their, the end product. But how did you sort of deep dive into the textile industry and go right down to the yarn?

[00:05:37] Amrish Shahi: So, to be honest, like, it's,I'm a science graduate. Actually, my base was science graduation. And then it was not simply a fashion design course I've done before that. I've done a little bit of science. So. when I was trying to find out my niche at the college level itself, it was most of scientific stuff, which I, which was really intriguing, even though I know I work with performance where I work with Denims as a core two subjects, both [00:06:00] of these, categories doesn't survive without any chemistry or chemicals.

[00:06:04] Amrish Shahi: both of these industry, even though if you utilize a pure indigo also in some of the denims, they still require a kind of chemistry. It's a very intriguing, very interesting way you can work with denims and indigos. Also similarly functional wear, where it's kind of penetrating into mainstream fashion.

[00:06:18] Amrish Shahi: the basic block is a functionality. So to be honest, when the brands demanded, I knew you knew a unique product out of me as a design head. Surface wise, we scratch a lot. All of the designers are doing all the same thing just to be different and my basic education in the science helped me just to go deep, little deep dive and get into a level where nobody else can scratch.

[00:06:42] Amrish Shahi: So I get into and I realize very quickly that my, my two field of operation can't be studios. It has to be either mills and the yarn spinners or the mills. And also it has to be at the laundries, either of the ways. So, being a designer, if I spend a lot of time on studios and designing, I have to [00:07:00] obviously I would have a comfort level of keep on designing the sketches and, keep on doing the surface.

[00:07:05] Amrish Shahi: But when you really want an interesting and, different stuff, you need to be the karma bhoomi, what do you call it in Hindi is that you need to be at the place where it's actually happening. The spinners or the fabric places. Or at the laundries where it's actually dying or getting, you need to get your hand dirty.

[00:07:21] Amrish Shahi: So, yeah, so being different, being getting a different product from my brand actually pushed me or initially pushed me, then it becomes very interesting. To be with the spinners or the fabric people rather than in the studios only.

[00:07:36] Rajeev: How does this approach impact your design process, or can you take us through how you actually, do this whole process from the yarn to the end product?

[00:07:48] Amrish Shahi: So the normal course where the designers start to work is they would look at forecasting. They would look at what are the new stuff I say, because in most of the design brands and design teams are scrunched for the time. They need to produce end to end [00:08:00] results in five to six months. They are, that's the only time what they have.

[00:08:03] Amrish Shahi: So they have very less space for them to research, to be honest. Whatever the mills throw at them, they utilize it. They'll just say that they dyed, dye this color or, weave this color in these colors. And these are seasonal colors. That's it. Beyond that, or the seasonal prints. And then the later on, they start to work on the silhouettes and the cards and the fits, and then they try to put the looks together.

[00:08:22] Amrish Shahi: So this is the whole design process, normal design process. But in this process, let's say the forecasting agency is pretty common. Like they are five to 10 big forecasting agencies. They're very similar results. Let's say there are 5, 000 brands and looking at those five or 10 forecasting agencies, you will start to find a very similar stuff and people struggle to sell at last.

[00:08:44] Amrish Shahi: If there is no differentiation and the forecasting agency is the starting point, this is bound to happen. So when the quest for being different and being true to your brand comes, You need to start differently. So my major process is working [00:09:00] with the brand. Let's say I would like to have a very good, what do you call it?

[00:09:04] Amrish Shahi: A brand pyramid or the structure of the brand pyramid where we want how much value added products at the top of the pyramid. Or how much we want at the normal selling commercial product, how much percentage of it. Let's say, for example, a brand is pretty positioned as a normal brand, which works on a pyramid structure.

[00:09:23] Amrish Shahi: They would like to have 20 to 30 percent as a top of the pyramid. And the base is somewhere around 50%, 50 percent where they just want regular product with just a seasonal coating, like a print color, or maybe a seasonal fit. And the base, Of 30, 40%, 30 to 40 percent remaining is kind of as a very stable classic products.

[00:09:43] Amrish Shahi: So that's how the most mostly structure for any typical brand anywhere. it's like that. The difference makes the top of the pyramid where they want 20 to 30%. If that difference is bigger, the brand is very edgy, very different. They call it fashion forward brands where obviously they require [00:10:00] newer stuff. So in that quest, when I work with the brands who really want a top of the pyramid is quite a big range there, you're required to have innovation that pushed me where the man, my brand wanted me to work mostly on the innovative stuff, performance based or look based. We need to go down to a building block of the yarns.

[00:10:22] Amrish Shahi: It can't be just a scratching the surface. So it has to be going to the yarn suppliers, fabric makers, and spinners. Sometimes spinners. Because spinning is an amazing game where they require tons and tons of the base material just to, start looking at spinning. If you're not very clear, if you're not very sure, you are wasting a lot of fiber, obviously, spinning requires.

[00:10:44] Amrish Shahi: So, we got a privilege to work with, I got a privilege to work with spinners who are pretty experimental. I got to work with people who are good in experimentation on the fabric, mixing different kind of [00:11:00] yarns, trying to dye different kind of things. So. I got, so I start a little bit earlier than the usual process.

[00:11:07] Amrish Shahi: If I have this thing in my mind that we need to do something different, I would like to start three months more in advance, start to go to the spinners or weavers, just not wait for their collection to stop. I start to look at what are new yarns, new blends they have, what weave innovation they can do it for me.

[00:11:28] Amrish Shahi: for that three months period, I actually become,I own a very different hat, like a yarn designer on a, or a fabric designer. So I major, my major work revolves around fabric, sorry, garment designer or a fashion designer. But for those three months, when I start little early, I kind of change myself into a yarn or a fabric designer for three months.

[00:11:47] Amrish Shahi: So I just do the same process as any fabric designer would do. Okay. I create my own fabrics, I try to create my own yarns and that percentage depends on the brand's appetite for a newer stuff. So that's how I start, but regular [00:12:00] process will be the six months process where the fabric is ready. We try to dye it in a different seasonal colors, print it, make the cuts, silhouettes, newer styles.

[00:12:10] Amrish Shahi: And obviously the seasonal roadshows.

[00:12:13] Rajeev: What are the kind of innovations that you're, seeing that way? BK alone has some. unique products, sustainable products and products which have antimicrobial elements and protection from UV ray, that sort of a lot of these kind of unique products, attributes are kind of synced into the yarn itself.

[00:12:40] Rajeev: So, How does that work in terms of the end product and that innovation? Like what are the things that you're seeing that's coming out of this process?

[00:12:50] Amrish Shahi: So basically let's say,today at that point of time, even the yarn suppliers are pretty clear about that. They can't be able to sell the, usual regular yarns anymore. so, [00:13:00] because the consumers is a pull effect, consumer is also looking at very innovative, interesting product. So we see a big trend coming in where, the fashion is, fashion products require functionality as well.

[00:13:10] Amrish Shahi: if you really want to, go to office and. our lifestyles and everything is changing so fast, so differently that we want our products or our garments to. Hard work. It's not that I just come back home and change and get into another suit and go back. It's not a norm anymore. Major of the consumers are pretty easy right now.

[00:13:29] Amrish Shahi: And a garment industry would need a yarn industry to respond to it. Let's say that you can do these kinds of treatment ever fresh, or these kinds of treatments very easily on the garment, but those washes, those retentions are, Quite small lasting. they don't last for long kind of thing. When these innovations are done at the yarn level, they are pretty robust.

[00:13:52] Amrish Shahi: so, even the fashion industry look at the fiber fabric supplier, the yarn supplier to get these innovation embedded into, because the [00:14:00] lifestyle of people are changing the way we see sportswear becoming more fashionable or sportswear, there is very less boundary in between sportswear. So called sportswear and the streetwear and streetwear into, Active day where so the boundaries are quickly vanished since last couple of years, we have seen the impact of pandemic.

[00:14:16] Amrish Shahi: And after that, everything is kind of intermingled. We want our, they were close to perform and our performance close to look as stylish or straight where as much as anybody. So, so these things are so much intermingled. So demand is actually pushing, innovators to think differently right now.

[00:14:34] Amrish Shahi: We want lighter, we want comfortable yarns. We, fabric. So fabrics can't be comfortable by themselves. You need to become, you need to make yarns, which are more, Making your life comfort. Obviously, yarn is a building block for your fabric, right? So if the yarn is harsh, your garment or a fabric can't be comfortable at all.

[00:14:52] Amrish Shahi: The pressure or the thing has to come down to a basic DNA level where, these trends are pushing all the [00:15:00] innovators, all the yarn suppliers. They can't be normal anymore. They need to do innovations and present a good, interesting collection, which is more comfortable performance. Lighter, better.

[00:15:10] Amrish Shahi: So, yeah, so I think this is the future it is going to be.

[00:15:15] Rajeev: So can you share some examples which is sort of, reiterates what you're saying right now.

[00:15:21] Amrish Shahi: Yeah. So let's say that we, we wanted to,we are working on a project right now where, one of these performance where, brand is looking at the women's gym wear leggings. So where, we wanted to, because the pricing is very sharp and everybody wants to wear it's an entry level jegging.

[00:15:35] Amrish Shahi: They don't want to change the fabric. or a content of the fabric to a level where the pricing becomes higher. So there's little, very little scope, because they are using a lot of polyester because the obviously functionality is very high in polyester, but another feeling which consumers are coming back right now, earlier it was acceptable right now, because people got used to this comfort very well right now.

[00:15:56] Amrish Shahi: And they have a lot of competition. This brand come up to us and said that, [00:16:00] can you design a legging, which is more softer. We kind of reiterated a lot of ways that. Can we use other fabric or a nylon instead of polyester, the pricing was going high. So then we went actually into a yarn level. There was no option just to get into yarn level and say that can we blend some of the very softer fiber into it.

[00:16:20] Amrish Shahi: Let us say, can you blend some of 10 percent of viscose or modal within at the spinning level itself or the yarn changing in the yarn itself. So we experimented a lot. And when we got a yarn, when we knitted the yarn with the same tight construction with along with the last thing, we start to see, we kind of done some variation.

[00:16:40] Amrish Shahi: We start to see some of the hand feels start to coming very nice. And we'll start to come in these. Fiber, in the yarns and the, obviously the yarn is making internet. So we see this little bit of impacts are to come on to the, and the lagging itself. So we see that, without, changing much in the costing, [00:17:00] without changing much in the look and feel of it, you can actually get a good, product.

[00:17:05] Amrish Shahi: A suitable product, which can start selling again. If you know how to do the yarns, how you can alter a basic DNA of the yarn. It doesn't take much.

[00:17:16] Rajeev: So the next question is kind of arises in the sense that, how does, there's this, you're the yarn manufacturers at the one end, and then, the other end, you have the, designers and then you have the fabric makers in the middle. Like, how is this, these intermingling happening?

[00:17:33] Rajeev: Like, previously there was, there was a standard workflow, you, the usual stuff used to happen, but now all of these ideas are, percolating through, how is this, sort of, is it changing the industry?

[00:17:48] Amrish Shahi: So interesting, actually, to be honest, as I said, there, there are usual designers who really wait for fabric manufacturers to give them whatever they can offer and the season, they have very tight timelines. [00:18:00] There are fabric designers who will wait for the yarn suppliers to get the good yarns coming in.

[00:18:05] Amrish Shahi: So all the fairs and industries divided like that. But when we start to look at the brand we're leading in this space, they really see that I want to see the yarns first, what can be done the yarn and then they will say, Oh, interesting yarn. If this is very interesting yarn, I might not require to do anything, apart from taking this yarn and just knit it.

[00:18:25] Amrish Shahi: Or weave it to make an interesting fabric. So, and the designers who are looking at that fabric, they said, wow, this yarn and this fabric is amazing. I don't require to do any design value. So can you imagine that if the either fabric, the yarn level, if the innovation is coming, then the next gen is not required to do anything.

[00:18:42] Amrish Shahi: But obviously you can't have 500 different kind of yarns every season. So, we need to devise a plan where, the good of the brands. I'm saying the top of the brands are working on this way, then they divide the line very clearly. Obviously, or obviously, yarn making is not an easy thing, it's very [00:19:00] complex and very time consuming.

[00:19:01] Amrish Shahi: It's very, difficult. What do you call money oriented process? you require a lot of amount, a lot of tonnage to even start to think of a yarn thing. So obviously, when we think we need to think of the volumes, we need to think of how consumers would be reacting to this new kind of proposition you're trying to put on the yarn, because if you have a hundred tons of the yarn, what are you going to do with the consumer not accepting it?

[00:19:24] Amrish Shahi: So, so idea here is that when we start to work on anything on the yarn level, let's say we have a base yarn, 35, 35, 65 configuration, we have standard yarns. People are really set about it, but somebody has designed those yarn years back, right? So, who are those innovators? Where, from where it comes?

[00:19:42] Amrish Shahi: So if you're sitting in isolation right now and designing your yarns, and then later on, you can say that five years down the line, I'll see the experimentation that time is over. We need to quick to the market. A lot of innovators who are sitting in the brand actually thinking about yarns now. [00:20:00] So that's a whole industry, at least a percentage of their business is coming out being different.

[00:20:05] Amrish Shahi: So being different, another problem which you're facing in industry right now is that in the fashion industry is right now that There are so many of the brands who have come up in last two, three years. they got so called performance where so many people who are looking at athleisure as the core of this thing that brought down athleisure, which was very high fashion kind of a thing to a level where it becomes like a mass market right now.

[00:20:30] Amrish Shahi: So, until as you are doing your clutter, you're doing your work homework very nicely as a brand, you will be fighting at a very low cost brand right now. The clutter is so big, so high. Until as you innovate, until as you get on to the level where you think of, DNA of the, your styles, which is, I keep on coming back.

[00:20:49] Amrish Shahi: It's a yarn is the DNA of your styles. The mixing of the DNA. If you don't work on the DNA of the styles, you can't be different. You will be looking at same stuff, which everybody's looking at and you're designing [00:21:00] and it was just fighting with the brand. So the idea, the brand who quick to understand this thing, the strategy.

[00:21:06] Amrish Shahi: Are working very clearly. let's build a strategy where we can work a little bit ahead of all other people and start to work on the yarn, start to experiment a little bit on it. in this case, the fashion brands are looking at yarn suppliers and spinners as their partner, not the fabric, not the laundries.

[00:21:24] Amrish Shahi: They're looking at the yarn suppliers are the key partners and they are impacting directly. So the whole supply chain here is brand to yarn is seamlessly connected. They are not dependent on first step to the yarn to the fabric maker to the fabric supplier and fabric supplier on the mill. And they wait for six months. nobody's doing that. A big brand. I'm saying conventional brand. We're fighting for the space and the money. They're still doing the conventional way, but the leaders are changing their strategy,

[00:21:51] Rajeev: So they're going straight to the yarn itself.

[00:21:54] Amrish Shahi: certain percentage of it,

[00:21:56] Rajeev: Okay. how does that impact the quality of the end product in [00:22:00] terms of, if you don't get that part right, how does it affect the end product?

[00:22:04] Amrish Shahi: Yeah, it might impact. idea is that let's say,If you start a little early, so that's about part of the strategy. The quality comes very down or when we do a very harsh, we don't do consumer trials. We don't test it properly. So obviously it's a win situation for the yarn makers also. And the union decision for the fashion brands also where they get innovation.

[00:22:22] Amrish Shahi: As I said, it has to be a little part of the strategy. every season, most of these brands require a newer product for their campaign or to maintain their leadership position. So when they use these interesting products, which are based as a DNA of the, when the functionality or the look and feel is a DNA led, not just a scratch of the surface or the print.

[00:22:42] Amrish Shahi: when they talk about like, I got a very interesting technology, which is yarn based, which is robust, which is, which will stay in your fabric or a garment for a longer period of time. When they talk about this, the credibility of the brand becomes very big. And season after season, when they deliver a big, big story, let's say for summer, they [00:23:00] deliver a very, entry microbial, those kinds of story and the winter, they say, I will keep protect and those kinds of things next season, they will again do a, UV protection story, everything, if it is robust and yarn based, they would enjoy a leadership position season after season.

[00:23:14] Amrish Shahi: All of these things which I'm talking about is very much possible doing the yarn, but obviously you need to start a little early. When you start a little early, maybe a couple of seas, a couple of months back, usual time is six, six months. Let's say if you start a little early, like nine months, Three months is just to start innovation.

[00:23:32] Amrish Shahi: One big story, getting out, do a consumer trial where a trial with the core base of the people get it vetted for the, all the quality parameters, hand feels everything. So three months is usual period.So when leaders are working on the yarns, working on the these technologies, along with the spinners and the fabric suppliers and they're pretty sure that at least they get a good one launch pad, a launch story for season.

[00:23:56] Amrish Shahi: They're okay with that. That's how they kind of work. The quality [00:24:00] is maintained if you have a parameters, if you have a structure, if you have a design you're kind of way we're working on the quality testing and the consumer trends.

[00:24:11] Rajeev: And yeah, you, I think interesting that you keep stressing the word DNA throughout, which is really interesting because I guess if you don't look at the yarn level, then the entire, it's like a dominoes, it's just, everything sort of falls down the staircase. So how do you, and you also mentioned that, you need to sort of figure out what's, how the demand is going to be and then produce the right kind of yarn to meet that demand, right?

[00:24:43] Rajeev: How does that work? Like in terms of, trend forecasting, how do you forecast like which kind of yarn is going to be in demand six months from now or one year from now? Like how does that happen?

[00:24:57] Amrish Shahi: It's very interesting question, to be honest. So, this [00:25:00] most of us struggle and, in industry, that's the, that's a major question. Even though we have 20 of the leading forecasting agency, they are giving you trends. They give you, like interesting trends and they say, Oh, these are the trends.

[00:25:13] Amrish Shahi: But still brands, kind of struggle. It's a very, very interesting process in which, you take a trend from these either buy from this forecasting agency or the higher it for a very specific need of yours. But still they throw at, what's happening around, they just throw a very raw data to you.

[00:25:30] Amrish Shahi: Until unless you're very clear about your brand or your consumers, you'd not have an in depth knowledge of where this is going to impact. It's no use, to be honest. So what we do, what I do as a, I've been working in the industry for 15 years as a leader and, 22 years as a total thing.

[00:25:47] Amrish Shahi: What I learned in industry that, the major difference is connecting the three dots, brand, your brand, DNA, what differently you want, understanding your consumer, what exactly the brand [00:26:00] DNA connects to, obviously consumers and what exactly consumers are going to do in next one year. How to predict we need to scratch ourselves only to be honest.

[00:26:10] Amrish Shahi: We need to get down to our emotional level first. Also study a global trend. apart from this WGS and forecasting and trends, I, my whole team and me, we do a very different approach, where we not only study every season. We study, it's a seasonal thing. When we study global and Indian. Trends, which is climate change, or what's happening in the water scarcity of India.

[00:26:36] Amrish Shahi: How it's going to impact the consumer behavior, consumer movements, even the crop pattern. If cotton is going to go down or cotton is going to go up, how people are reacting to a walk from home, why people are resigning from stuff, political, geopolitical situations, how it's going to impact. Maybe in long sense, they are less money.

[00:26:56] Amrish Shahi: They won't. More from their product. And so we need to, even we [00:27:00] need to make more premium product, maybe, or maybe you need to make cheaper product. So they can be no mediocre products anyway. even the music scenario, how youth are reacting to the current situation. what kind of music people are listening to?

[00:27:14] Amrish Shahi: so all these things, are very common stuff, which anybody can study, but we studied in a very systematic manner just to analyze these, that how they're going to impact my brand. And if my brand is coming in the domain of that, let's say there's a significant change in the current generation. Let's say the buying generation of Gen Z and they are kind of getting impacted because of the lockdowns and everything.

[00:27:37] Amrish Shahi: The couple of seasons we saw a couple of years we saw before that. But that impacted my consumers, clients who are Gen Z. And that was the base subject for me also to study the Gen Z and give my client very clear idea that they are not going to buy from you now, if you don't give them a very different or a robust product.

[00:27:57] Amrish Shahi: So even, so reduce your depth, [00:28:00] sorry, reduce your depth and become, give them the width. So these kinds of strategic inputs, we need to give it to the brand. When we study the holistic point of view of the human immersion, how they're evolving. link to the brand's DNA as well as brand's consumer base.

[00:28:16] Amrish Shahi: So it's a very complex process. forecasting agencies just throw a data or a larger stories at you, but as a design lead or a design head, it's your responsibility to chew the data, link it to brand DNA and understand a little bit of consumer's emotion. They're all around you can't escape. You are one of them.

[00:28:36] Amrish Shahi: So if you don't study your inner self, then you will not be able to do justice to you, your work and your, so brand. So that's how we do differently things. We get down to a different level.

[00:28:46] Rajeev: And people talk about fast fashion as a big segment. Is there something anything called slow fashion? Just out of curiosity, I'm asking you.

[00:28:55] Amrish Shahi: no, sure. this should be a flow. So we see a big moment in a slow fashion. [00:29:00] Obviously you will not hear about it. You will hear about it because fast fashion is typically designed for a commercial, role. And, obviously this typical, these, the bigger brands of fast fashion brands would have up to a 10 percent of their total revenue pushed into a marketing strategies.

[00:29:16] Amrish Shahi: Even though sometimes I wash, sometimes this, do it. The fast fashion is saying we are sustainable. So sometimes it looks like gimmick. they do a certain percentage of their products, which are made from recycled stuff or some kind of storytelling for them is just a campaign to be. the silent warriors are the people who are, they would hand money.

[00:29:38] Amrish Shahi: they don't have advertising money. They don't have anything on them, but they're slowly working. They're slowly shifting. They're first, they start with themselves because this is, they say the profit may come later. But if you equate lately, we see a big commercial equivalent of the pollution, which [00:30:00] is, or a commercial equivalent of the.

[00:30:03] Amrish Shahi: Unsustainable practices is start to emerge now. And earlier we thought the water is free. It's abundant air. Pure air is given by God is abundant. We can play with it. But now the major agency, the forecasting agencies are putting a price to it and the price is huge. You can't even imagine because the things were free.

[00:30:25] Amrish Shahi: Can be so scarce that you can't even survive and you can pay any money for it. So I think the slow, slow fashion warriors are not known. They don't have a budget. There is no still a voice for them. But yeah, they understand that, the, they understand most of these brands and slow brands, they understand that this is their job and their duty to keep on working irrespective of they get a marketing budget or not.

[00:30:51] Amrish Shahi: There would be some point when they will be heard a hundred percent sure. But I think they understand it, That without this, there is no future of anybody. [00:31:00] So bigger brands are still working on the sustainability as a gimmick or, fast fashion because it's profitable. In the short term right now, it's not the long term, but in the long term, they will realize,

[00:31:14] Rajeev: Yeah, but there are some brands like the first brand that comes to my mind is Patagonia. and there are brands which are Doing some, like for example, I saw a shoe completely made of, recycled material. So Well, I mean, and many of us, we have tons of clothes, which we some of it, which we just use it once or twice and then it goes back.

[00:31:42] Rajeev: So I think from a consumer point of view, also behavior needs to change, right?

[00:31:49] Amrish Shahi: you're actually said, consumer behavior need to change, but our quest for looking different is not stopping us from doing that. So the human side, especially over certain segment of [00:32:00] the human side, where they, the more of us would be competing for less of the pain. Less of the jobs, less of the attraction, for each other, so these things, I go on to that level when, we see law of attraction amongst the, different generations, how they attract each other and why they need to be stylishly, decked up or stylishly, dressed up for occasion every day, they need to change everything so that they pick up a good partner.

[00:32:28] Amrish Shahi: This is also human psyche, right? In certain countries. the demand for, fast fashion is huge because they require everyday new clothes so that they be seen as a more fashionable and the chances of picking up, the partners are no better. So this level of, when you get into this level of human emotion, you can't stop. So you will say that whether the priority for me is selection of partner or being sustainable, say no sustainability. I want my partner first. You're getting a point [00:33:00] and this just the generation me and you study these right now, but people who are in the situation right now where they are struggling to get a right partner, they'll say our first priority is let me get dressed up today.

[00:33:12] Amrish Shahi: I don't want, I don't want to get into the sustainability. Thing, which looks boring to me. I need to be attractive. So most of our generation who is young, they would look at this as they will never think about sustainability. They will say,give me cheaper. So Patagonia kind of brand are evolving in a different way.

[00:33:30] Amrish Shahi: They, even though at point of time, they closed the stores across us three days before Christmas season. And at that point of time, everybody was what to sell. So they're very few. They said our store staff require the same holidays as you guys are. So they, we are stopping three days before, let them go home.

[00:33:47] Amrish Shahi: As you guys are enjoying, they will also decide. So do your shopping three or four days before. So, there are different brands and they become, they distribute the share. So very rare, very people, but yeah, we have examples.we have examples in [00:34:00] nudie jeans and jeans companies where they say that, please don't buy a jeans.

[00:34:03] Amrish Shahi: This, these kinds of things are not gimmick. Please don't buy a jeans. You have, a broken or sorry, you had a jeans, which is, torn, please bring to us. We will repair it for free. Please don't buy. So when, it's also worked as reverse marketing also where they say, don't buy, but people buy. Okay.

[00:34:19] Amrish Shahi: Bye. So a lot of people are using it as a reverse marketing tool also, but yeah, some people are actually trying. I see a big innovation coming up in the natural dyeing done very commercially. so that was a taboo, taboo. I will call it a taboo because nobody was trying to do, but now a water scarcity and a lot of regulations, government regulations are putting, not to pollute water bodies and soil.

[00:34:44] Amrish Shahi: So, a lot of commercial dyeing in the natural pigments, natural dyeing are coming in, natural indigo incidentally, only 2 percent of the indigo is natural in the whole cycle of supply chain. Everything is a chemical indigo. So that actually pollute, [00:35:00] the rivers and water bodies a lot. So, but yeah, there are a lot of stuff are being done on that direction in last couple of years only because there was a push from the government regulations.

[00:35:10] Rajeev: And do you think, sustainability as a story is, will hold good, in terms of, in the future, in terms of fashion or textile or the yarn side?

[00:35:21] Amrish Shahi: Yeah. So I'm a hundred percent sure that, because. whatever we say that even it's looking like that nobody will, respect sustainability, but they will forced because forced in the sense that if we see in a real time, the climate change happening in front of us only, and then some there, somebody will has to link it to the way we consume, the way we consume stuff, we will realize that.

[00:35:46] Amrish Shahi: The our own intention is our own behavior is responsible for we don't have water right now in India. Also, we struggle struggling in a major part where the water is not there. Can we link it to the way we consume stuff? [00:36:00] Yes. There is a, there's a fair linkage to how we are consuming, even including our fashion and the habits of eating and, consuming anything which is exorbitant or not required.

[00:36:15] Amrish Shahi: It's directly linked to the way we, see the future coming until as you do a linkage and, the common do or the policies are made in a way that certain places we see policies are directly impacting. what is being offered to us and the way we consume it. So, government need to realize policy makers need to realize that if the consumers are not reacting to it nicely, the policies can't go wrong at the long term.

[00:36:42] Amrish Shahi: If you don't have water, we do a nice air. if you have, polyester particles going everywhere, we need to, we need to be very careful about, There is nothing wrong in a fabric or fiber on a material. There is nothing wrong. I think so. The way we consume it, the way we don't recycle it, the way we just leave it [00:37:00] for the nature to, say, Hey, this is I've done and you just do whatever you feel like with this nature will not respond.

[00:37:06] Amrish Shahi: It'll throw back at you. I stay in Goa actually. So I go to a local beach, on some of the days, just the sea, just throw everything back on the beach. It's just, it's yours. Take it. And the beaches are so dirty at that point of time, we need to clean it. If we keep on throwing stuff at the beaches and in the sea, it will throw it back to us.

[00:37:29] Amrish Shahi: Nature is, nature doesn't take sides. So we need to understand this part, either the policy makers or the consumer will understand because we need to, bear it in coming years. Now, it's not that 20 years now, it's two years, it's two years. Maybe two months.

[00:37:43] Rajeev: So what's the role of, somebody like a man, a yarn manufacturer like Bikilon, how do you think, they can be involved in this aspect?

[00:37:54] Amrish Shahi: Yeah. So idea here is that, if we require all kinds of materials for all kinds of things, let's [00:38:00] say we require man made fiber for a couple of things, like functionality. If I wear a cotton natural stuff on Everest, not possible. I require a interesting or technically high product for a sub zero temperature.

[00:38:16] Amrish Shahi: So idea here is that when we, consume stuff for its own and give its own respect and sanity, it will work for sure.also is that how, we would incorporate that stuff, which is forever there, let's, the man made stuff, which is forever there, how we retrieve it back, how we recycle it, how we kind of make it.

[00:38:39] Amrish Shahi: long lasting, we utilize these materials in styles, which are more robust, more classic, more. So it's a responsibility of not the yarn suppliers, but it's possible designers also that how, products which are made for long last, the product should be made long lasting, right? So if I'm making a long lasting yarn, I'm [00:39:00] taking a long lasting yarn and I'm making a product which is just for two months or one wearing, this doesn't make sense, right?

[00:39:07] Amrish Shahi: So idea here is that can we, designers need to think. Along with the material manufacturers and material suppliers, they work together on this thing that A is the yarn is robust, yarn is, this thing, can we do respect to it? Second, if, if you want to get it back again into the system. instead of getting into dump yards or dumping it somewhere, can we get it back some way?

[00:39:32] Amrish Shahi: it plays a major role for both of the ends. Not only one party is responsible.

[00:39:38] Rajeev: And how do see the future of, textile in general and yarn specifically going forward in the next five, 10,

[00:39:46] Amrish Shahi: Yeah. A lot of interesting things are coming. Consumers really want not only a sustainable close. They want hardworking close. They don't want a mediocre product. They want a premium product. They can spend money on either. They want very cheap [00:40:00] product so they can just throw. So, so the world is really divided into the two extremes where they want either a premium robust product where they can keep lasting.

[00:40:08] Amrish Shahi: So the product design is very different for these kinds of things. And another set spectrum where we want very, because we don't have money, we want, we are scarce a little bit, the world, the way world is going towards, and of abundance, they call it like, everything is going to be, people are increasing and the earth is, has to do that much only.

[00:40:28] Amrish Shahi: So we need to share our resources. So obviously the habit of our consuming would impact it. But yeah, so idea here is that future of the product design and the material design would depend on how sustainable or natural integrated product would be coming. How we can, if it is a certain products are designed for long lasting or man made product, that need to be keep on recycling.

[00:40:54] Amrish Shahi: We just have these materials only. We don't have abundance anymore, whatever you say. so we need to [00:41:00] get them back for recycling and reuse for next generation. so that's how, and how the human are evolving. The consumer is evolving in this pretty much direction only. We need to soon realize that this is what we have and either we need to consume it for long or otherwise, if you don't want to consume it for long, we need to recycle it.

[00:41:19] Amrish Shahi: the interesting technologies which are coming in this space are need to enable our consumer to live same lifestyle as they are living still now, like they want to roam around, they want to be free, they want to have comfort level. Graphene is interesting technology, which is, coming in the every space of life, people would like to have more comfort clothing.

[00:41:39] Amrish Shahi: People would like to travel a lot in there. They are realizing that this, the lifespan of whatever they have is quite short, anything can happen. Any lockdown can happen anytime now. So. They want to see as much as world, they want to experience as much as world, and they still want to work. So, if you see the,the country's opening for work from home or [00:42:00] work from anywhere, kind of visas, giving it to them, it's also pointing out how humans are, how the,generation is want to live and spend their time along with their loved ones.

[00:42:10] Amrish Shahi: Also idea here is that the way consumers are changing, the way their habits are changing. Companies are in the technology to respond to that. we, the companies and the yarn suppliers and middle suppliers need to give them more innovative, more better looking, more robust, more technically advanced products.

[00:42:28] Amrish Shahi: So yeah, for them to, freely live, freely work, they need to be presentable. Everything needs to be put in one garment only. So these are the multitasking or high, what do you call, they call it hard, hardworking clothes. And for that, the DNA has to be the yarns.

[00:42:45] Rajeev: Interesting. Very interesting. So if you are starting your career right now, what would you tell your younger self? I mean, basically I'm asking because a lot of young designers will be listening to this conversation. What would you like to tell them?

[00:42:59] Amrish Shahi: [00:43:00] Yeah, I'm still young. So,

[00:43:01] Rajeev: Okay.

[00:43:03] Amrish Shahi: I can start again a career. So actually I started my career again, a couple of years back. I worked in industry for 22 years and then I start to work a little bit, that whatever I learned in my career, especially my unique stuff, I would like to, share it with the brands.

[00:43:19] Amrish Shahi: So we saw in our journey that. Yeah. The organized sector had a very good design structure. They are like 20 designers sometimes. And sometimes the return on investment on a design team is very huge when they're not profitable, to be honest, the companies and brands are not profitable. The return doesn't come.

[00:43:35] Amrish Shahi: so the smaller brands don't afford that quality of design. And that's impacting actually a value chain to be honest, because majority of these low brands are 80 percent of the Indian population. Brands, to be honest. So with this thought, with this unique stuff, I ventured out on my own. So what I, what I uniquely offer to them is the same quality of designs, same quality of thought process as any organized brand can [00:44:00] offer at a very, nominal cause they don't require to have their own big design team, ROI for them.

[00:44:06] Amrish Shahi: So I give them that service. Why I was, why I'm still clicking after, working so much of, years in industry and doing things differently is basically is that, I found my uniqueness. So I don't try to tick all the boxes everywhere. So that I see in my current, when I recruit for the brands and industry, I see a designer when they apply, they say, I can do this.

[00:44:30] Amrish Shahi: I can do that. I can do menswear, womenswear, everything. I can do everything at two years of experience, right? So it's very tough. So I would suggest, the people who really want to get into a fashion industry, just find your unique and wait, keep on doing a smallest level wherever you want until as you have a, what do you call it?

[00:44:48] Amrish Shahi: Internship kind of a level or intern kind of a level. Don't become a designer or head designer in two years. very tough. If you get into that level where you can't get and you're dirty, a lot of startups are offering like [00:45:00] after two years, they say you are the head designer and then they stop growing to be honest.

[00:45:04] Amrish Shahi: So, so idea here is that get your unique self first, get your hand dirty. There is an industry, obviously there's alternate field which are coming, which is metaverse and designing for metaverse. It should be there. A lot of sizable people will be working in that. They don't require, they just require studios to work with.

[00:45:20] Amrish Shahi: Cool. I agree with that. But a lot of us still want to wear tangible clothes, right? So we are not, none of us are in metaverse, maybe a small self of ours can metaverse. So if you're designing for metaverse, yeah, that's a cool thing, but a small sizable thing can happen. So most of us would require a tangible close.

[00:45:40] Amrish Shahi: So A, find your uniqueness, B, work quite a deep dive in whatever you are good at it. Maybe a couple of years you're required just to find yourself. Maybe you're good in graphics, fabrics, tiles, whatever. But until you find your uniqueness, you will not. B [00:46:00] is people who are now at a good place and they really want to start something like I've started something like my own.

[00:46:07] Amrish Shahi: so two things for the youngsters, I would suggest is which I've start missing is the patience and finding uniqueness. Both are interlinked.we were very impatient. The young generation is quite impatient. Let's not be impatient. You everybody. We'll have their own fair share, but need to wait.we all struggled to be honest.

[00:46:29] Amrish Shahi: if you ask the, this generation, we, you, we all struggled initially, but now we are okay. We are, we're not, there is good space for everybody to be honest. So, the more unique you are, the more better chances of you doing better in your life. If you're everywhere, then five years down the line, 10 years down the line, you'll be just, just taking all the boxes.

[00:46:49] Amrish Shahi: You will not be best in anything. So, and wait for your chance to come and keep on working on that. Don't try to work hard, but work focus. This is [00:47:00] what my youngsters for people who are starting after like a second chance, like me would be very clear that, Again, until you find your uniqueness and you want to now should be giving it to the world.

[00:47:12] Amrish Shahi: Now you should take risk at this point of time. If you don't want to take risk, then you are doing the same stuff. After 15 years, 20 years, you'd be doing the same stuff. To be honest, you'd be just listening to management. You will not be utilizing your key points, which you have learned in this tree. So idea here is that when you're ready, when you think you can take risk, please do take. So, there is nothing wrong in taking risk. if you're a little bit of a sorted, if you're five, five, five months, six months, timelines are sorted, do whatever you learned, give it back to the industry. If you find a gap, please fill it best to fill it. If you are a little bit have experienced 15 years experience, please fill it, take a risk and please fill it.

[00:47:55] Amrish Shahi: the best after 15 years experience in industry. So, just [00:48:00] look into your heart and say, this is what I found missing in industry. Just go ahead and fill it. Just don't worry about it. Take the risk.

[00:48:07] Rajeev: Great. Great. Awesome. Advice. really appreciate what you've just said. so closing this conversation, is there anything else that you would like to share? Like, can you share something about the, the startup that you have right now? And is there anything else about that, that, you would like to share with the audience?

[00:48:25] Amrish Shahi: yeah. So, basically see,fashion industry is very vast. So it's very huge. it touches from one end to another. And, idea is that, so, your knowledge will make your difference in here. Like, if you have a habit of reading, if you have a going to the places, I think everything, everything adds to your, your, professional career as well as to be honest.

[00:48:46] Amrish Shahi: So being a designer, if you say that I've learned everything and I've achieved everything,that's a death of being a designer. Until as you are a sponge, you keep on soaking atmosphere. Yeah, designer should, understand [00:49:00] if the climate is changing what I should really inferences that what is going to impact the consumer base.

[00:49:05] Amrish Shahi: So your feelings are more important, what I'm trying to arrive at. So if you're being a designer is, analytical side is one way to keep track of costings and, timelines, and those are the, you can divide them into certain parametrics. But if you're losing your emotional side, if you're losing your field side of it, then you're losing a lot.

[00:49:29] Amrish Shahi: So idea here is that balance of the analytics as well as right and left side of the brain is more important when become seniors and the way we grow it. So obviously you need to take care of numbers, but keep your child, keep your innocence There, being emotional would result in a lot of benefits for the brand you're working.

[00:49:50] Amrish Shahi: It's not that you always present your numbers. It's always you. When you present your emotions to the brand and touch you, touch them there, they get benefit a lot. They [00:50:00] do get benefit because they will be doing useless stuff. You just keep on throwing that past seasons numbers and emotions are changing very fast.

[00:50:07] Amrish Shahi: So being emotional is not a problem at all. But I suggest to all of us that please be emotional. And that's what we try to do in our startup. We link a lot of emotions to the money, because until this, you are, feel right and emotionally, You will not give money. We are struggling. A lot of brands are struggling, to sell throughs.

[00:50:28] Amrish Shahi: Why they're struggling because somehow the brands are not connected to human emotion. they keep on throwing them products and, the brand who suffer are the mediocre brands where they, where they want that they want to sell themselves as a premium product, but the products are not telling any story.

[00:50:44] Amrish Shahi: so we help them connect to a very human emotion, talking to the, the right consumers that this consumer will never come to your store if you give them product, get them connected with the emotions. so I add a lot of value [00:51:00] when, I touch emotional side of a consumer to a tangible product and that might result or will result in the more sellability and sell throughs.

[00:51:09] Amrish Shahi: So the first part is this soft,Conversion. Nobody can marketing maybe have matrix of saying that a conversion to a click level or those levels are coming, but this brand and this human connect level is not measured very nicely. But it impacts a lot. So we do this matrix very nicely in the simple life studio.

[00:51:30] Amrish Shahi: So my name, my, my startup name is called simple life. Also as S C S M P L Y F E F Y F simple life. So even I cut down all the simple life in a very simple life. So idea here is that when brand comes to us, we just talk more of emotions. Numbers will come. I am 100 percent sure about it with staying in industry for so long.

[00:51:51] Amrish Shahi: Numbers will come.

[00:51:53] Rajeev: And where can they go,connect with you? Do you have like a website that you can share?

[00:51:58] Amrish Shahi: Yeah. So I don't have a website [00:52:00] right now. It's still in work in progress because I'm a three people team only. we take very small projects. we actually are work for degrowth. We are not working for growth. So we work reverse. So we work for degrowth, that, we will work with you a couple of brands only at point of time.

[00:52:17] Amrish Shahi: Okay. so we are not working that we want 20, 20 people. So we said four is very big number. Three is good number two is very nice. So you work on the growth level. So at a point of time, if you have a couple of projects, I work very nicely. So, because of, doing sanctity, I don't have a website.

[00:52:33] Amrish Shahi: I just do have a Instagram page. It's called SMP, L Y F E studio. If you just Google SMP, L Y F E simple life, you will get it. It has Instagram page also, and it has a LinkedIn page. Even if you search Amrish Shahi, you will get it.

[00:52:55] Rajeev: Yes, of course, I mean, I did that before the conversation when I was googling you. [00:53:00] So yeah, I got that Simplife concept. So it's very interesting. Degrowth, I think that's a word more people should use.

[00:53:09] Amrish Shahi: So we, we actually practice it. We don't have much design team, even though we have a larger design team is three to four people. But, I work on all the projects because I need to train people to be emotional first and then talk about numbers.

[00:53:26] Rajeev: Thank you. Thanks a lot, Amrish for sharing your wisdom. And yeah, it is amazing conversation and thanks and all the best for your venture, new venture in Goa.

[00:53:38] Amrish Shahi: Yes. Thank you. Thanks a lot for being here. let me be here, and, let me share my thoughts and my mind.

[00:53:45] Rajeev: Thank you so much. much.

[00:53:46] Amrish Shahi: Pleasure is all mine.

[00:53:47] Rajeev: . Thanks. Amrish for coming on the spinning values podcast. It was great to chat with you. If you want to listen up to the rest of the episodes. Then head on over to beekaylon.com/spinning values.

[00:53:59] Rajeev: Thanks for [00:54:00] listening. And we look forward to meeting you on the next episode. This is Rajeev signing off.