From Interesting to Interested - Unlocking the Power of Connection in Sales with Daniel Ryan

Celeste Berke [00:00:00]:

Hello. Hello. It's Celeste with Daniel on the Sales Edge podcast. I'm super excited for Daniel to introduce himself. We met at Saster and then saw each other a couple more times during that event, 1 at the lavender after party. Really impressed with Daniel and Aligned, so would love him to take an intro take a moment to introduce himself.

Daniel Ryan [00:00:27]:

Yeah. I'll take an introduction anytime, Celeste. So, hey, everyone. My name's Daniel. I am The founding account executive at Aligned. Before that, I mean, I've been in software sales for the last, like, almost 4 years And be in sales in general for 7. And, yeah, I really love talking all things sales sales stuff. I can't wait to share a couple of The things that I picked up or things that I have found not to

Celeste Berke [00:00:54]:

be true. Tell tell the listeners here, Aligned. Your your quick Synopsis of Aligned.

Daniel Ryan [00:01:02]:

My synopsis. Basically, if you're a salesperson as a complicated sales process, Meaning, either lots of, you know, collateral, lots of back and forth, mutual action plans, all that sort of stuff, and you find yourself, you know, Sending tons of emails, all that sort of fun stuff, and you're looking to make it a better experience for your buyer, that's what Align is for. It's to help the buyer Go internally. Make it much simpler for them to share the resources. Makes it better for you to coach them because you know who's looking at them, what they're looking at, All that fun stuff. So it's essentially a workplace for your champions and your reps to Yeah.

Celeste Berke [00:01:41]:

It's a great place for collaboration. And just today, I saw on LinkedIn, on the aligned page, an awesome video that you all shot about a buyer and a seller basically working together in a workspace. So if you want more information on that, go check out the aligned page as it's a very same concept. And I know for any of us who are in sales, we actually dove into this with our team the other day. We were looking at an email thread, and it was so many back and forth with a buyer just like, oh my gosh. There has to be a better way. So, Daniel, tell us You've been in the sales scope for a while. You're founding AE at Aligned.

Celeste Berke [00:02:23]:

What is your sales edge? What makes you unique?

Daniel Ryan [00:02:27]:

Yeah. I don't know if it's super unique to the whole world, but I think what I've been told repeatedly and what I'm, like, The best at is the relationship building part, which I have a pretty good knack at, you know, within 3 minutes, get someone's guard down, then we can get, you know, to the meet where, you know, where the relationship art doesn't matter as much because you're asking the tough questions or whatnot. What helps me get there so quickly Is yeah. I guess I guess my edge would be, like, the ability to get the atrocity

Celeste Berke [00:02:55]:

And where does that stem from? How did how did you, I guess, arrive at this place of having people at their guard

Daniel Ryan [00:03:02]:

Natural talent. Natural words.

Celeste Berke [00:03:04]:

The Aussie accent. That's what it is.

Daniel Ryan [00:03:08]:

That definitely helps. I've been told that a bunch of times from coworkers watching Gong calls, and they're like, there's no way I could get away with saying what you just said. So it's definitely having an accent has helped. But, I mean, on the eldest of 6, I grew up. My old man runs, like, a ministry that has a bunch of stuff on it. You know? So, like, I've been meeting with and building relationships with people literally, like, in my home for the my entire life. From when I was 6 is when he started doing that. So I think just Yeah.

Daniel Ryan [00:03:42]:

That's what like, that would be where where it comes from, you know, meeting people. And I think I just learned from a young age that, like, everyone's favorite Everyone's favorite topic is themselves. Being interested is being better than interesting, and that that just sort of comes pretty naturally to me. So I think that would be the That would be how

Celeste Berke [00:04:00]:

I got it. Interesting that you say that as I think back to being a a shy kid, kind of a I'm an introverted extrovert, but I look back and my parents entertained a lot. Right? So you were always around people, and the adults would ask kids questions. We were treated like adults. Right? We sit at to come sit at the table, the manners, the picking up all of that. And I and I think at an early age, you definitely learn how to converse with other people. And now I look at My husband has 2 kids, and I think like, oh gosh. We really didn't give them that opportunity.

Celeste Berke [00:04:35]:

Like, no wonder they're a little shy in front of in front of people so I can see that in the home, especially with having other siblings. Right? It's this give and take relationships, listening to what somebody says before you're responding. You know, what a cool foundation that has helped you now in the sales career.

Daniel Ryan [00:04:55]:

Yeah. It's really interesting you say that. So I there's a there's a local family that they have 6 girls. 3 of them watch my kids. They're babysitting. I remember talking to their mom and being like, every single one of your children, like, looks me in the eye on the conversation. Like, This is really impressive and whatever whatever. And I was telling my own mother this just on, like, a FaceTime, and she's just started laughing.

Daniel Ryan [00:05:18]:

And she's like, was like, what? He's like, you know every single person used to say that about you kids to heart. And I was like, I No. I didn't know that, but I guess you're right. I mean, I did look people in the eye and, you know, ask them about themselves or whatnot when I was, like, 10, which Now that I'm an adult talking to other 10 year olds, I'm like, this is weird. Like, why are you looking at me and asking how my day was? Like, 10 year old is supposed to say, You know, Paw Patrol and then Run Away. Probably not quite accurate for that show in that age. So I think and that came from all sorts of things. Like, Because my dad, you know, spoke on a stage in front of big groups of people, like, I think the 1st time I spoke to a group of a 100 people, I was 12.

Daniel Ryan [00:05:59]:

Yeah. Because, like, my folks would do a lot of, like, parenting courses, and so my old man's big thing is, like, you know, The proof's in the pudding. He's like, I can't stand up here and tell everyone, like, this is how you should parent if I'm not willing to show them my kids and what they're like. And so I was I think that really helped. I think for me, like, it's made it substantially easier. So And and a part of that is, again, you know, I've met tons of very, very successful people, people with big titles that have The exact same problems as me and everyone else. So I think that has really helped with my relationship building aspect is if I'm getting on a call with the CEO, Like, I know that they still get in fights with their kids and that they still have to remember to flush and wash their hands. Like, they're still a person, and it's not that big of a deal to to to chat with them.

Daniel Ryan [00:06:46]:

So I think that is probably what helps is that I just treat people like their people.

Celeste Berke [00:06:52]:

Right. We we strip away this Status that individuals have, and it's and it's tough when you get on calls with individuals who because they have more time in the seat. A lot of Sellers will tell me that. Right? I'm apprehensive. I actually was talking to my mentor, Rachel, who I know you've talked with today, and she was like, why haven't you reached out to this person? I'm like, didn't didn't you see? And she's like, come on. And so I had to flush it through. Like, wait a second. They have a problem I can solve.

Celeste Berke [00:07:20]:

They don't know what I know. I don't know what they know. It's like it's it's we make it more of a big deal, and I think that comes from the internal dialogue that We tell ourselves over and over again, and you're right. Starting in a young age, how do we immerse our own kids into

Daniel Ryan [00:07:39]:

out of us. Yeah. It's definitely it's definitely like, I think Anyone who is successful or a bigwig, you know say bigwig for those listening. I'm doing their quotations when I do. They I've found, in my experience now, they're, like, they're usually the ones that listen the most. Like, the ones that, I know everything. Don't usually make it that far. So I don't really yeah.

Daniel Ryan [00:08:09]:

I mean, I I I would definitely say, like, it's it's not something that you need to be afraid of. And At the end also, at the end of the day, you know, if they if they do say, you know, like, Celeste, you don't know what you're talking about, like, you're wrong. Just, you know, end the Zoom. Don't talk to everyone.

Celeste Berke [00:08:27]:

There's so many other fish in the sea. Right? And and we get so attached to an outcome or a perceived outcome that we maybe shoot ourselves in the foot before we start. I know I was talking with, somebody else, Blaze, who I met at Saster as well. He's with User Gems. And the other day, he told me he was talking with a CRO who I think had their arms crossed, and they looks Like, they were totally detached from the conversation, so he said he stopped on the Zoom just to check-in. Like, are are you tracking? Are you with me? And the person was appreciative of him stopping and was and he said, no. I'm I'm just trying to take it all in. Right? Like, my mind is spinning, And sometimes we take someone's title as they're not interested in what I have to say.

Celeste Berke [00:09:11]:

And as you That'd be interesting and be interested, and that should that should resolve itself. But here's to our young kids learning that skill as well now that we have it. And I know you mentioned the Paw Patrol. I will say we are deep, like, real deep in the Paw Patrol over here to the point where my daughter will only respond to Sky Puppy as her name, and we have to set some barriers. Like, at the dinner table, you're not sky puppy because puppies don't sit at the dinner table. So it's

Daniel Ryan [00:09:45]:

Just remember that no Problem is too big, and their pub's too small, Celeste.

Celeste Berke [00:09:51]:

That is perfect. I think we often say, like, a pub's gotta do what a pub's gotta do.

Daniel Ryan [00:09:58]:

And that's I have to say some of the things like, since my daughters have gone to school, some of the things that, like, they get taught is still So relevant to us today. Like, that's just reminded me. So both my kids have gone through the same, like, junior and senior kindergarten class with the same 2 teachers, and they have these, like, These sayings that they say, and they've now become like mantras in our house. And even when my kids were at school, I say it to myself. And one of them is no big deal banana peeled. And it's so like, what we're talking about is someone, like, says like, you know, if someone hangs up on you angrily from a cold call or if you have, like, a bad meeting Or if you don't close a deal or whatever, I just like you know, I'm like, what would I say to my kid if this if they had something unfortunate happen? And it's Diamond peel banana peel is a big

Celeste Berke [00:10:45]:

I love that. We're in the I need space. That's what she tells me, so I know that's coming from from she's in pre k, from school. Oh my god. A teacher, she needs space, but she's constantly, like, constantly telling me she needs space. Like, alright. Alright. Okay.

Celeste Berke [00:11:02]:

So love The Sales Edge. We go on and on about relationships. Oftentimes, when you're in sales you know, you've been in sales a while. It's not like this is your 1st rodeo. Obviously, you were recruited to be the 1st AE at Aligned. Oftentimes, we're given some, like, sales advice, but you gotta take it with a grain and salt or we hear something and it becomes this, like, myth. Is it true? Is it not? Do we believe it? Tell me. What is the sales myth you wanna bust, break, or share with us that the listeners might not know.

Daniel Ryan [00:11:39]:

Oh, I don't know if the listeners might not know, but one thing that I what I really bust is, like, taking all advice at face value. Like, it could even be like I've had examples of A sales leader at my own org, this is at a previous company, gave advice of, like, you should have asked more here, and you should have done more discovery diving into this. And I'm like, well, if you hit play instead of pausing, that's what I end up. So, like, Taking like, there's a there's a phrase that I learned from, again, my

Celeste Berke [00:12:12]:

my folks. My preschooler.

Daniel Ryan [00:12:15]:

No. This is from my parents, and it was well, they they sort of 2 phrases. My mom would always say, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, meaning, like You know, which is a really weird saying when you try to break it down. But, basically, like, throw out the the dirty bathwater would keep the clean child or more what my dad would say is, You know, eat the meats, spit out the bones. So, like, when it comes to, you know, advice in the sales world, context And, you know, who's it coming from? Who do they sell to? Because that's a big one that I see a lot. I mean, especially on, like, the LinkedIn world, Someone will be like, this is how I close 85% of my deals. And then everyone's like, oh my gosh. This is amazing.

Daniel Ryan [00:12:56]:

It's like, okay. Who are they selling to? Because if I'm selling to sales leaders and I have a 90% open rate in emails, that is like, that's good. That's like, You know, if if if you have less than a 70% open rate selling to salespeople, you have a massive problem, like, on the technological side of landing and spam. Whereas if you're getting 40% open rates selling to, like, CSO and CTOs, like, that makes, like, a lot more sense because those people don't live in their email. They're not talking to our organizations. They are internal. They're using Slack. They're using Confluence.

Daniel Ryan [00:13:28]:

They're using, you know, all those other things. So if you're selling to, you know, x persona and someone's giving you advice based on their experience selling to y persona, you should probably ignore it, because they don't know who like, sales is, you know, sales is is Helping someone make a purchase. I don't think that, yeah, all that is fun advice on

Celeste Berke [00:13:56]:

And there's no there's no one way. Right?

Daniel Ryan [00:14:00]:

I a quick I definitely actually, what what I would love to dive in is I was having this conversation with the CRO of Amplemarket, and I, like, I think, And the more I'm in sales, the more I believe this to be true, is that, like, not everyone can sell to everyone else. Like, there are some people That like, I met this 1 guy, and he was the classic like, when my family pictures a salesperson, this is who they would think of. Like, slicked back hair, in your face, like, aggressive, could tell any story, center of attention. And I know for me personally and some of the people that I've worked for before, like, as sales leaders, they would never buy from this person. However, he's wildly successful. I know that there are other people where I go for more than relational, slightly more laid back, you know, trying to talk to them, whatever, and they need someone to take the reins and, like, Drive them to where they need to go. And, you know, there are people that he would that he could sell to that I would probably never be able to sell to Unless I change completely how I solve and vice versa. So that would be, I guess, a sales myth.

Daniel Ryan [00:15:11]:

That can be the one that

Celeste Berke [00:15:11]:

we landed on. And it's knowing that. Right? And especially as a Team as a team grows as a sales leader, I I think it's nice to have individuals who fit a puzzle piece. Like, Very early on when I was in sales, I'll use quotation marks. It was it was a lot of inbound, so it was, like, reactive sales. I started hiring people I liked because I was a brand new manager. I had no clue. No one ever taught me.

Celeste Berke [00:15:34]:

Hey. This is how you hire people. And then I slowly realized, woah. You need to hire people who excel in a skill set where I do not. Right? Like, how do we fit this puzzle piece together so that if you have a difficult customer or you're in a buying situation, right, you can all kind of weigh in or you can cherry pick and match up somebody on your team who best It fits that style. Obviously, as a 1 person show, you can't, but I think your culture is pretty, like, laid back. But not all cultures are like that. So, yeah, assessing your team, You can't have all of the, like, the Wolf of Wall Streets or if any of you are watching those real estate shows.

Celeste Berke [00:16:13]:

Right? It's like Everybody's that hustle grinder, and and and not everybody jibes with that. That's kind of a turnoff to some buyers.

Daniel Ryan [00:16:23]:

Yeah. I call it, like, the greasy used car salesman style. Like, that is again, it but then it depends. If you're a salesperson who's Selling used cars, you need to be probably a little bit more forward because reality is if someone's on your life, it's probably because they need a freaking car, so you need to be able to, like, you know, move the needle. Whereas if you're in, like, a consultative selling situation, you Oh, we don't need to, you know, jump down people's throats.

Celeste Berke [00:16:50]:

So Not at all. Yeah. And thank you so much for sharing that. I I I definitely take everything with a grain of salt. I I had a conversation earlier today about, like, holy crap. LinkedIn is just, like, full of gurus. Right? Like, everybody Slinging the sales advice, me, myself included. Some people go real deep.

Celeste Berke [00:17:08]:

Right? And it and you do have to pick and choose. Like, it It's all theory, and it's nice and tidbits that you can take from other people, but we internalize it of, like, I have to be like this person. Now you have to find a style that aligns with your buyers, and sometimes you have to go back. And as we were talking about before we hit record, like, Looking back in your CRM, looking at the deals that you've won, looking at the deals that you've lost, like, who were you selling into? Like, what was the difference between this role and this role? Like, Did you change your style? Did you change how you showed up? Did somebody else on your team take the reins? Like, it is so nuanced to you, yet everybody's like, how do I get the quick fix? Like, if I just implement this one thing, then everything is gonna change instead of saying, like, this is a journey that I'm on, And the way that I sell I mean, I'm 44 now. The way that I was at when I was 27 and got that 1st sales role, like, I'm wildly different. And I'm sure as you look back on your sales flubs and your wins and your opportunities, you can say the same thing about yourself.

Daniel Ryan [00:18:10]:

I'm wildly different from when I was a month ago, Celeste, let alone let alone a few years ago. I will say the one consistent was has been, like, The relationship thing that we talked about earlier. But, yeah, it's definitely I I would definitely say, like, don't you know, every time you read something new, some new piece of advice, Go. Yes. Like, this is it because, generally speaking, it might not be it.

Celeste Berke [00:18:35]:

Right. Not every opportunity to Get a franchise is going to be the one. I don't know if you get hit up with those, but it's a daily occurrence in my in my inbox. So many franchises, so few

Daniel Ryan [00:18:51]:

people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would just, like, As far as as far as I think people you know, like, If we go back to LinkedIn, people I have friends who are menaces on the phones, and they can They can, you know, book so many meetings so often, and they're like, yeah. It's so easy. This is my opener that I use. And, like, I just do this, and I just do that.

Daniel Ryan [00:19:19]:

And then people okay. I'll use that opener too. And then they'll go and try and do it, but they haven't put in the 10000 hours of reps To get to that nuanced place of, like, oh, I need to use this objection handling situation here. That's not actually a real objection. This is Or, you know what? This person isn't actually interested. Let's just, like, hang up and go next. Like and so, you know, reading a post or listening to 1 podcast and being like, I'm gonna change my wholesale around this just probably isn't isn't a good idea.

Celeste Berke [00:19:48]:

No. And as the pups say, a pup's gotta do what a pup's gotta do. So that is the advice to you all out there. Right? You do as we say in this household, I tell my husband all the time. I'm like, why do you, bro? Why do you? You do you?

Daniel Ryan [00:20:01]:

We do you.

Celeste Berke [00:20:01]:

Yeah. Because he he's an endurance athlete, so he's constantly talking about his workout schedule and, like, all the projects around the house. I'm like, you do you, Whatever. Like, whatever you're gonna do, and it's so applicable to sales. Right? It's it's just honing. It's putting in those dirty reps like we would at at the gym, on the snowboard. You're not gonna strap on that those boots or whatever you call them and go down the hill the 1st time and crush it. No.

Celeste Berke [00:20:28]:

You're gonna fall a whole of times. And year after year, you're gonna get better, and you're gonna get better, and you're gonna get better. So appreciate all of your insights and wisdom, Daniel. Check out Aligned. Definitely a cool team. The marketing is pretty legit too, and I think that your team is putting out some amazing content that's, like, real. Right? So

Daniel Ryan [00:20:49]:

We do our best. We try to look at, you know, what do people wanna hear rather than just look it out

Celeste Berke [00:20:54]:

to people. And entertaining. Yes.

Daniel Ryan [00:20:57]:

So Yes. Engine

Celeste Berke [00:20:59]:

Engine team. Yes. So check out Daniel. Connect with him because, again, he's a well connected guy. So if you connect with him, He's probably gonna pay it forward and connect to you elsewhere. So appreciate your time, Daniel. I will go ahead and end this. Thank you, listeners.