Ep14: Outbound Reality Check: Why Spray and Pray Won't Work, and What to Do Instead - Lessons on Succeeding with Raul Perdigao, VP of Sales - Amplemarket

Celeste Berke [00:00:00]:

Hello. Hello. This is Celeste Burke nicely on The Sales Edge Podcast. I'm really excited for this episode as we are going to talk about a hot topic floating around the Internet and LinkedIn, which is what are we doing with outbound, so I'm excited to have that discussion today with Raul. I'm gonna have you say your last name here in a weekend because I don't know if I'm going to be able to do it justice. Appreciate you being on the show even though it's end of your day in this being. So Raul with Amplemarketlemarket, give us a synopsis of who you are, a little bit about background and also a high level overview of the AMP market.

Raul Perdigao [00:00:43]:

100%. Thank you so much. So the name is Raul Perdigao, But you can say Rahul, no problem whatsoever. But funny enough, I started in banking, and I worked in banking for roughly 6 years. But then after that, I found tech, back in the day, you know, NFCs and etcetera. And then I started rolling it into tech. And eventually, I started up working with a lot of startups and services and software as a service. And right now, I have been working on scaling teams, building sales teams For, companies that have been, focusing on hypergrowth at a global scale.

Raul Perdigao [00:01:17]:

So working a lot with remote teams. This. Lately, I have been privileged to work with AmplemarketlMarket. AmplemarketlMarket is all in all compound solution that covers all of your efforts When it comes to outbound. So we will cover that a little bit from multichannel to how to use your emails properly. And we have been incredible success successful on managing everything top of funnel before it goes into your CRM.

Celeste Berke [00:01:44]:

Excellent. Well, it's interesting. We were connected through one of your counterparts who actually found me on LinkedIn because I have a podcast and I was putting out content and she found me and we'll be talking about a partnership later as this airs, but I'm curious I always ask guests what is their sales edge, and you and I were talking earlier about you having some insights into what what's happening with this dirty word outbound and your team being prepared for that many years ago. Tell us about what makes you unique? You said you came from banking and then you went into tech, so you've kind of seen it all in this evolution of how in the past couple of years tech has really skyrocketed. What is unique about you in these roles where you're helping shape that hypergrowth.

Raul Perdigao [00:02:41]:

Mhmm. I was I was really fortunate because I I was able to be on both sides of the barricade, to be honest. I was mentioning to you, I had an experience, Where I was managing a pipeline that was fed by inbound 100%. So I was very fortunate, and people came to me and said like, you No. Like, that's not selling. You know? Like, you're cheating because you're getting the leads from your marketing team that has a huge budget. But then it's really interesting. I the other side as well.

Raul Perdigao [00:03:07]:

You know, in Amplemarketlemarket, we basically we dog food a lot, so we do a lot of outbound. And a big part of our results, big, big part is effectively driven by outbound. And so we also wanna practice what we preach. And within our demos, when we go and deep dive into the technology, We really wanna make sure that we use what we have built. And our founders, they really went through The not only how to do use the right data, but one of the things that they were really focusing early on early on is how Can we make sure that the message will be delivered? Right? So that's critical here. So really, really early on, the founders were really keen on figuring out Deliverability. You know, like, what effectively makes you escape the spam room? You know, like, how can you get around that? Like, How you should be warming up your mailboxes. Without going into, a lot of tech very details into this, but, you know, like, there's a lot of of Of of points that you really need to account for when you're doing outbound for setting up not only your mailboxes, but all the way up your domains.

Raul Perdigao [00:04:14]:

All your authentication. A lot of people are starting outbound without doing this. So you really need to go back, sit down with your IT guy or your ops guy, and make sure, Let's double and triple check all the certifications, all the authentications, and making sure that our domain is properly set up. So a lot of times, Even before you do start doing outbound, we can help you. But, like, really, really make sure that You're doing everything on the background even before you start because otherwise, it will not work definitely.

Celeste Berke [00:04:46]:

So similar to so my husband's an endurance athlete. He's he's always watching the Tour the Tour de France and all of the riders from Spain and from France because he's a huge cyclist as well. A lot of people will put in the effort of, I have the right shoes, I've gone to the doctor, I've had a physical. I've looked at everything. I've had the blood drawn and had labs done, all of those things before you start excessively training. I take my electrolytes before they even step out on the track or get out on the bike. And what I hear you talking about is companies and individuals are so quick to jump on the we're going to mass message everybody, and then they create a lot of noise on social media when things go wrong or there's, you know, boundaries put in place on how much you can email. Right? What's happening to your domain? Because all of that stuff, nobody's talking about the technical side that's not as sexy or fun as all the outbound messaging.

Celeste Berke [00:05:49]:

So it sounds like you're saying before we run, we need to do all of the prep work on on the back end.

Raul Perdigao [00:05:58]:

100%. And, you know, like, coming down to one of the things that you were mentioning, for example, Just thinking about the domains. We engage with a lot of people, and we help a lot of companies that come to us saying that We are not even able to receive emails anymore. So that's, like, a very red line position to be in, like, a very bad spot. But we have people that, you know, like, they are not Getting any type of open rates or even reply rates, obviously. But just why? Because they burned their domain. So just to start with, like, you shouldn't be doing outbound from your main domain. You know, like, make sure like, we are not doing outbound from amplemarket.com because that, we save that to Talk to our investors.

Raul Perdigao [00:06:39]:

We save that for our founders to use for very official communication. So we have different domains. That's like the 1st step. You know, like, you you need to think, like, if we eventually burn one of these domains, or if it eventually gets flagged Starting February, everyone is very keen on this. You should have a domain setup or a a subdomain or a new one. And within those, you need to set new mailboxes and more. And the thing is you cannot do that in February. Like, you need to do it right now because they will need 2 months to warm up.

Raul Perdigao [00:07:13]:

Right? So you need to warm up your email. So you're like, I will set it up. In 2 weeks, I'm doing outbound. No. So this is a this is it's really interesting that you brought that up because this is a marathon. Like, outbound is a marathon. It's not like I'll buy it. I will use it tomorrow.

Raul Perdigao [00:07:28]:

Right? Like, no. No. No. You'll buy it, and you'll start using in 3 months. Right? Because this is an investment. We will work side by side with you. So a lot of times people come to us and say, I want the same results in inbound. Let's shift into outbound.

Raul Perdigao [00:07:42]:

Well, I have bad news for you. Right? Like, I really have bad news for you, but I have also good advices. Right? Like how to set this up properly. You know, like there's some key functionalities we we have in in in Amplemarketlify Marketing. Like for example, placement tests. Like, basically, we are able to trigger tests weekly on every single mailbox that you use. And even before you use them, we will let you know, Are they landing in spam or not? Or what's the the likelihood of that happening? So you see, like, these type of very specific features leverage a lot of value behind it Because you will maintain this guardrails. Because, again, you you are the manager, but the SDR doesn't care.

Raul Perdigao [00:08:24]:

They will click and they will Send. They will blast. Right? So you want that, like and there are tools out there that that will alarm, That will trigger those and say, like, hey, don't use this mailbox. Like, use other or use that subdomain because that one is better than this. So these are the type of things that you need to be on top of in, like, Every other day or every single day going through what's happening in your business, and this will secure your continuously performing in outbound. But it's not transparent of that. Right? Like, people don't talk about how hard it is.

Celeste Berke [00:08:56]:

And who are you finding understands this within an organization that really is your champion for the let's crawl before we run. Who is that persona within an organization. Is it the IT department, or is it someone in sales who who can understand what is 3 or 4 steps down.

Raul Perdigao [00:09:19]:

Mhmm. That's a great question because it it really varies on the organization. You know, like, we have a lot of very well educated salesperson, working with us that did outbound before. I will say normally, you know, like, the the guardian angels sit in rev ops. Yep. So those are the ones, you know, like maintaining the tools, like, making sure that everything is up Like, everything is controlled. The reports are there. So I will say, normally, those are the ones that we really help directly.

Raul Perdigao [00:09:47]:

And they will set up the guardrails for The the outbound teams, you know, like the AEs to make sure that everything is is is performing as it should. But it definitely sits within management, so people that have a little bit more time in their day to go through all of these reports and understand, like, Wait a minute. Like, open rates are so bad this week. Moments. Right? So probably Someone doing outbound that only focusing on volume. Like, they will not I don't care. I will continue on click. Right? But when you have someone, like, Stepping back and say, like, why is our open rate dropping, like, drastically? Something is happening.

Raul Perdigao [00:10:24]:

So then you start digging. I will say normally that Either sits with management, or even with, rev ops, sales ops. They will take the time to deep dive into this, and they will okay. Like, we need help. Like, we probably should Be looking into a warm up system.

Celeste Berke [00:10:38]:

And then your team's helping them with those red flags to look for, how to read the reports, how to be in front of that growth before they hinder themselves. And I can see teams that are in hyper growth mode. It it is difficult to say we need to put something in place and then sit on our hands for for a little bit of time in order to do that effectively, how are you mentoring those companies through that, let's say, that bridge, right, that that gap between their current state and their desired future state.

Raul Perdigao [00:11:14]:

Mhmm. Definitely. So we we publicly state that we are against spray and spray. Right? So we really wanna make sure that we wanna talk to the right people at the right time with the right message and be really, really effective at at this, Making sure that the sales teams are very productive and effective on the way that they are mating all of this multichannel. Right? So that's a given. But when when companies start working with us, we we wanna make sure that they have, for example, all the check boxes when they onboarding someone. Right. So imagine that you're onboarding me.

Raul Perdigao [00:11:44]:

Right? Raul Pradigal. I will say it again. But the thing is, as soon as you have that name, like, by the mailbox Right there, right now, that's the first thing that you'll you'll be doing. Raul will be working in sales. Here is the mailbox. First thing that you do, warm up. Right? So you have the mailbox. It basically warm up.

Raul Perdigao [00:12:03]:

Even if Raul joins in Europe, we normally tend to join a month, 2 months ahead of time. I know. So if you have Raul, you have a a full month to warm him up. So when Raul joins, he will be starting to Slowly and steadily doing his outbound approaches. He will be able to ramp up his volume. He will be safe. Right? So you'll be able to allow Rahul to Scale his mailbox and use more, build a couple of Elias. So it's so interesting that with this type of procedures that you have and people nowadays, they have this.

Raul Perdigao [00:12:36]:

They have all of these checkboxes to onboard people, right? So think about outbound. Like, think about everything that you need to build. That's where we get in. You know, like, we really wanna make sure that people understand that and help also your salespeople to succeed at outbound. So it's in your hands as a manager. And they have all of those playbooks ready. Understand, you know, like the best performance and it's really what doesn't perform, And really teach them on the best strategies and how to social selling. You know, like, don't put your features Right up front.

Raul Perdigao [00:13:11]:

You know, like, think about, like, you wanna talk about some something that people want to talk about as well. Right? Engage with people in Common interest interests. And then you'll be able to understand, like, why are you selling and what are you selling and why it's so valuable for them. But that's again, that goes into strategies. Like, let's focus a little bit more on tools as well.

Celeste Berke [00:13:30]:

Yeah. Yeah. And there's

Raul Perdigao [00:13:32]:

But I will say that.

Celeste Berke [00:13:32]:

The weeks leading up to this conversation, right, outreach. Everybody was posting about outreach and what they were saying, which is so funny because of what Outreach does at scale and putting out a statement, basically, that was this trigger warning for everybody to talk about, Oh, outbound is dead. Your domain is going to be burned, right? Everything is going to spam. Everything lands in spam. What was happening in your organization in in response to all of that on LinkedIn?

Raul Perdigao [00:14:10]:

Yeah. But basically, we we we we read it, and it's definitely something, like, we keep an eye very close to To to the provider. So we really wanna make sure that not not only we comply, but we are on top of those to be prepared. Specifically for these, like, I don't think that we are not preparing anything because we were anything because we were built differently in a way that we don't believe in spray and pray. So there are a couple of features that really helps us to make sure that we go after that performance for the end user. I'm not talking about the manager. I'm talking like the person that is effectively on the forefront on doing the outbound in prospecting. So for example, making sure that we allow people to automatically choose and send from multi multiple mailboxes within one click.

Raul Perdigao [00:14:52]:

Right. So basically, you'll have a dropdown. You'll be able to select all my Elias and send from these, use different schedules, And make sure that it's distributed evenly, so none of them are flagged. This is one click away with AmplemarketlMarket. Right? So is something that probably a lot of tools right now are scrambling. Like, how will we do this? You know, like, manageable multiple mailboxes. We automatically manage multiple domains as well. We are able to track and connect all of them within 1 account.

Raul Perdigao [00:15:20]:

We really wanted to make sure that it's seamless For you to use as an end user. You don't have to worry about it. We will do the distribution. Like, we will look into this. We'll do the placement tasks. We will look into the deliverability. We'll look into the reports. You as a user focus on getting the right people, talk to them, engaging with the right content.

Raul Perdigao [00:15:39]:

We also have a very interesting way on on Expanding that and making sure that we connect with a lot of people. And we have a, machine learning helping us out, I will say, to make sure that every single one of them will receive a hyper personalized email, within the same sequence. So that's another trick. You know, like, a lot of people, we come to us and say like, now how can I transfer, like, these 50 sequences that I use for all my ICP? And I said, well, I can tran I can translate that into 2 sequences that will keep all the personalization that you have, And let Amplemarketlify do the rest. Let the machine work for you. Yeah. So those type of, of, of things, you know, like making sure that you don't send The same subject line. You don't send the same composition.

Raul Perdigao [00:16:25]:

So the the email providers, they look at the composition of the email at, itself. You know, like paragraphs, Sentiment, how long it is. So you need to vary. You need you need to really understand what they are doing, what they are looking at for you to Not go against it, but play, by the way.

Celeste Berke [00:16:42]:

And It's interesting you say that. So 2 years ago, the business partner and I had that I had at the time we started to get into sequencing, and he had this totally robust Excel spreadsheet that there were all of these steps. I had to learn it at what point, but I laugh now, right, because because your team's out there doing this with one click and it would it would upload the emails, but then it would randomly pick, right, a subject line, whatever the salutation was gonna be and then the the body so that it was all randomized, so it was getting past all those filters, and I laugh because just a couple of years later, here we are, one click of a of a button, and and you can do that. But you learn Exactly. From all of that, and I think some of the downfall of what we're seeing right now is we are all so used to all these fancy tools and widgets and everything to make our life easier that we often jump right to, like like we said, that happy place, that final destination, that where everything is going seamlessly, and we forget when we're inside a business or managing a large team. We have to do all of those steps, and we have to ensure that they're in place for our team to be successful. And how do you think tell us a little bit about the founders having that foresight into what they were building because it sounds like they were a little bit ahead of their time and ahead of this curve as to not get caught up in in what's all the bashing of spamming and, you know, cold outbound is dead. You all were at the forefront of creating something that was ahead of its time.

Raul Perdigao [00:18:32]:

Not only. 100%. So it was one of the things that brought me to work with them, obviously. Right? So It's it's really interesting, and I tell you why they are so successful is they are not salespeople. So they they learn the hard way because, Like, our CEO is a graduate, computer science from MIT, and 2 other founders are basically, they studied physics in university in Lisbon. So as you can imagine, like, a little bit of strangers to the sales world. And they figured all of this out when they were doing sales, like when they were trying to sell their e commerce platform. Right? So that's why they took it in a in a very different perspective.

Raul Perdigao [00:19:08]:

And think about it 4 4 years ago or 5 years ago, We lived in a world where point solutions were the game. Right? So we have this software here that it's incredible on this specific thing that it does. Let's go. Right? So even investors were going in that direction. Like, point solution is key. And 4 years ago, they look at the portfolio of companies that you need to buy to do sales. Like, and Salesforce recently released a study that it's 10. On average, a salesperson has to log in into 10 tools.

Raul Perdigao [00:19:40]:

Right? So for from enrichments to data quality for email and dialing, etcetera. So, basically, that was the 1st vision. Like, we will build the 1st compound solution, really compound solution where one login will have access everything that you need to do for your prospecting. You know, I said that that was the vision. And right then, effectively, they start shifting into This needs to be, like, accomplished through email as well as one of the pillars of your multichannel approach. And then they soon really look into the social what's happening in LinkedIn. It's so powerful. So they they while they were learning and testing, they are scientists, so it's really interesting.

Raul Perdigao [00:20:21]:

They they took that perspective Everything that they do. So it's everything about trial and error, and you should apply that to outbound as well. If it doesn't work, iterate. Know, like, don't stick around for a month. I'd already in 2 weeks if necessary. And you will find the gold nugget. You'll have the moment, and then you'll multiply it. Right? So that's science for everyone.

Raul Perdigao [00:20:41]:

So they apply science to sales, and it's really interesting to see that it works.

Celeste Berke [00:20:46]:

Yeah. I I last month, I think I interviewed a scientist turned she's now in the GTM space, and she has the same the same takeaways as you, right? It's science. It's like yes or no. This failed, now we change, now we shift. Like, we aren't waiting, it's we're moving at rapid speed, looking at it through a, you know, a scientist lens is definitely it's kind of like that a b, like yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. So that's interesting. Well, I I also love to ask guests a myth they'd like to bust, it, and I know we touched on it or danced around it a little bit, but I'd love to hear from you. What is one myth that you'd like to to bust?

Raul Perdigao [00:21:31]:

Yeah. Exactly. It it is it's it's very much around this, communication as well that we have been seeing. The the myth is that Outbound doesn't work. Right, Laura? Outbound is not for us. I hear this a lot. You know, like, oh, we're good with inbound. And it it's, yet again, it's really interesting for me because I I came from a company that 100% inbound.

Raul Perdigao [00:21:50]:

And it was one of the thing that we heavily discussed with the founders when I joined. Well, I'm leading now a team that it's Very outbound focused and very outbound driven, but that's that's something that's, you know, like, we talked a little bit about here in this call. It's definitely that that outbound doesn't work. Right? And I'm not even saying that we should focus exclusively in email, but, like, Outbound doesn't work for some because they don't know how to iterate fast. You know, like and these projects take time, and a lot of them a lot of sales leaders jump into this, like, Okay. I have 2 months to make this work. And I immediately tell them, like, probably, Amplemarketlemarket is not the tool for you because, like, I wanna make sure that when I position a project with you, we will succeed together. And for you to succeed at them at at not only enter market, but to succeed at outbounds, it will take time.

Raul Perdigao [00:22:45]:

Right? And I will I will guide you through all the steps. We have an incredible implementation and customer success team. But I, again, like, I believe that I lost a lot of deals like this because I'm being very open. But the people that effectively, like, take a step back and say, okay. At least I will I will hear what Raul is about to say. Normally, we see a lot of this because the projects are implemented in a proper way where they healed a lot of success throughout, right, through the right communication, to the right setup, So the right mindset of the teams, the right training put in place. So I would think that's the myth. You know, like, a lot of people come with that concept, like, no, no, no.

Raul Perdigao [00:23:23]:

We are product led growth. Like, we don't need outbound. Outbound doesn't work. So if anyone out there is curious to to challenge, and I will be glad to jump on that call And and show a little bit of our statistics as well to to prove them wrong.

Celeste Berke [00:23:37]:

And and we're very much in alignment from a gap selling lens when we go through discovery, which is basically a diagnostic. Right? We're looking at what are the problems, can we help you solve, what's the impact, what's the gap, and sales leaders will tell us this you know, I have 30 days, and and for us, that's not realistic. We have to have a realistic understanding of is your team open to change? Right? Are the behaviors going to change? And then how are we holding individuals accountable internally through enablement. Right? There's this training piece, and then enablement has to happen just like with your customers. But, realistically, that 30 to 90 day window is when we start to see an an uptick in win rates or a decline in sales cycle, but we're we're not magicians. It it takes time. Human behavior takes time, and and individuals are very resistant to change, especially sales teams, especially tenured sales individuals. Right? You have individuals on your teams who have been there 20 years.

Celeste Berke [00:24:38]:

Right? Tech is new. This is what we've done. And I once saw on a tech company. They're in hospitality tech. It said grow or die. Right? Really, this, like, adapt or die. And I think we're all in this situation of everybody's screaming outbound's dead, and that's just 1 narrative that's going out there. No.

Celeste Berke [00:24:58]:

Outbound in the wrong way might be Dead, but taking the time and having realistic expectations and setting it up from the get go, you can continue to have success. It's just those that are abusing it or or putting it in a bad light. So what what does the future hold for your team? What are some things You all are looking forward to as as you move into 2024.

Raul Perdigao [00:25:24]:

Mhmm. So basically, our team has been working. It's it's interesting because it goes back again to the experience of of the founder because since the beginning, they apply, language models and machine learning. What, you know, like, when AI was not sexy, and it was called machine learning? Yuck. No one wants to talk about it. You know, like, but our founders were so keen on it. Like, we can get, sentiment analysis from emails and and automatically trigger automations or workflows from replies. So, you know, like, really interesting.

Raul Perdigao [00:25:53]:

You were mentioning outbound takes time. Like, it doesn't. Like, we are able to to extract the the sentiment and what people are effectively trying to transpire, And we can fast track. We can shorten the time that salespeople get into their inbox. We can cut it More than half. Like right now with Amplemarketlemarket, we we have solutions that will really allow you to automatically build All of your follow ups has dropped. You only have to skim through it and send it. So it's all of our perspective into AI.

Raul Perdigao [00:26:26]:

So we we had definitely a heads up because we have been working with machine learning for the last 5 years. So a lot of people are now, oh, we are building. No. We are we're we're already building. So

Celeste Berke [00:26:36]:

We're on to the next phase. Right?

Raul Perdigao [00:26:39]:

It's really interesting because we were able to do that. I mean, like, when when ChatChpT came out, like, it was basically a fast track for us to connect to their API because we already had everything built And the models. So we were able really able to scale velocity, and one of the main focus is also how we look into AI, Celeste, is We don't wanna replace salespeople. We want effectively them to have superpowers for, for them to have FaceTime. People will still have FaceTime with their prospects, with their clients. Everything else, we really wanna make sure that we minimize and we maximize their output. So that's where are we focusing our efforts, Like building not only a AI copywriter that effectively understands sales emails. It's not a email.

Raul Perdigao [00:27:23]:

It's a sales email. And AI replier that schemes through your inbox and drafts emails for you with all the valid propositions, with everything that you basically set up for your companies to succeed. We will do it for you. So I will say time efficiency and keep an eye because Amplemarketlify market is coming up with a lot of interesting features that will maximize the performance and will minimize the time that people stay, you know, like prospecting or mining or, following up. You know, like, the where every every salesperson will say that, but that will not be an excuse anymore if you're using Apple

Celeste Berke [00:27:59]:

Watch. And I loved how we we chatted early on about, you being a fan of of the gap selling book and really this problem centric approach to how do I get my sales the team in order or, you know, to to get away from product and all of these great bells and whistles, but to truly understand what is going on with with your buyer because I think to your point, not everybody, you know, if their expectation isn't in line, if they're looking to do something out of the scope of what you all feel comfortable with and the results that you can deliver. Being okay to say no and to walk away from that individual because you're there to solve problems. You're not there to just sell a product in order to, you know, increase revenue. It has to be the right individuals who are in alignment. They see that future state and are willing to go on on that journey with you. So so I loved how you mentioned that in the beginning.

Raul Perdigao [00:28:53]:

In regarding upselling, Celeste, it has been one of the ways that we win a lot of, deals from competitors. Basically, because we understand where they are, what are the risks Of their remaining Yeah. Where they are, and what are we effectively offering in terms of performance and efficiency. So what that's the value. And if you don't conduct a proper discovery call to understand that, because yet again, there's a lot of people out there doing outbound and doing it well. We really wanna make sure and that's the interesting part about gap selling because they're already doing it. So where is effectively the uptick On onboarding a platform like Apple Market. Right? So that's that's where it's really hard to sell, and you really need to nail it down on Making sure that you understand where they are, what are the risks maintaining that same path, and what will be effectively the the additional on having a proper platform that will allow you to ramp or grow even faster.

Raul Perdigao [00:29:49]:

Right? And that's where gap selling really gets into the game on understanding those and how the implementation could effectively get them into the new step into their sales process.

Celeste Berke [00:29:59]:

Yeah. Well, I've so appreciated you sharing some insights and and debunking the myth that outbound is dead. We've learned that outbound, when done correctly, when we take a step back and we think about the direction that we wanna go, bringing on new team members. We need to set things up correctly, but, also we have to be okay to ask for help when it's out of our area of knowledge. I struggle a lot with working with champions within an organization who are trying to get their VP or CRO on board that they do need a framework. Right, everybody's doing something else and how do we bring teams together, and they'll come back and tell me, oh, the VPs said that they're gonna handle it themselves. They're they're not worried. It is what it is, they don't want to bring an outside, and I think often it's swallowing our ego and saying, This is not my area of expertise.

Celeste Berke [00:30:51]:

I'm the one holding the team back. If I look for fractional help or I bring on, you know, a partner such as Amplemarketlemarket, I Can Get TO Where We Need TO BE, and that's okay. And so I love how you're there to support teams in realizing that vision but also being the expert where they aren't because, let's face it, most of us are not experts in machine learning or AI. It sounds like your founder founders have the finger on the pulse there, and I'm really excited in the next couple of weeks to dive in and see what your platform can do so that I can continue to be or start to become an advocate and support your team. So I truly appreciate you extending your day as I know it's a little bit later there in the day to be on here. Your team can or individuals can, of course, follow your team on LinkedIn or reach out to you personally if they have questions. For any VP of sales or CRO who has a team who's doing outbound and just doesn't know what the future holds or they're starting to see some red flags, they can contact you. Any any parting thoughts before we end?

Raul Perdigao [00:31:59]:

100%. There there's a light at the end of the tunnel. You know, like, and we we've skimmed through this news because we have been doing this approach, in the last couple of years. So we are very comfortable. And Yet again, like, not even in a in a head of sales perspective. Like, I'm really keen on engaging with people that really want to Set it up right, and I'm more than welcome to just connect with me in LinkedIn and ask a couple of questions. I'm an open book, and I love to share best practices. People understand what we are doing.

Raul Perdigao [00:32:30]:

They understand that the tool and the software goes along the strategy. And more than often, it eventually leads into a deal. But More than happy to bring some calm into the storm and effectively share some good practices that outbound is not that Not even close. So we just need to set everything right, and everyone will be super successful. I'm sure.

Celeste Berke [00:32:51]:

Great parting words. Well, thank you. It's been a pleasure chatting with you. Look forward to continuing to get to know the team. Thanks for joining us on The Sales Edge Podcast.

Raul Perdigao [00:33:00]:

Thank you.