E15: Crawl, Walk, Run, or Trip: Mason Cosby's Journey and Wisdom in Building ABM Foundations for a Seamless Marketing-to-Sales Handoff

Celeste Berke [00:00:00]:

Hello. Hello. It is Celeste back with another episode of the Sales Edge Podcast. I'm super excited to welcome Mason Cosby onto the show today. I have been following Mason, for a while and was formally introduced by I know some of the listeners are gonna be like, Riley? Was it Riley again? Riley? Yes. Riley, the unicorn of LinkedIn, and was so excited when Mason made the decision to go out on his own and really hone in on his area of expertise. So let's hear Mason's story. Mason, kick us off.

Celeste Berke [00:00:38]:

Tell us what you're doing.

Mason Cosby [00:00:41]:

Yeah. Well, first, thank you for having me. Excited to be here. Celeste, I'm excited to speak directly to a sales audience because I I kinda sit at that intersection between marketing and sales. I spend a lot of time speaking to marketing and don't spend as much time getting Speak to sellers. So really the core of what I'm doing is helping companies build account based marketing programs without the $200,000 tech stack. And I'm a firm believer in the concept of the crawl, walk, run approach to ABM. The challenge that most people experience is Nobody likes crawling.

Mason Cosby [00:01:13]:

Everybody wants to immediately run. They see the signage of new technology. They see if you go and invest in this Tool, you'll get a 700,000,000 return on your investment. And it's like, there are a lot of situations and factors that helped Get that return on investment. It likely actually wasn't the tool this much. It was probably their strategy. But, again, tools are shiny. They promised, generally speaking, a quick fix when in reality, you need the right foundation.

Mason Cosby [00:01:40]:

So where I'm focused is helping Marketing and sales teams first nail the handoff between marketing and sales through what I call activation plays. And once you've got your hand off nailed down, we then can go and build a more repeatable evergreen ABM type program. So that's what I'm doing, helping out quite a few clients Build out those programs.

Celeste Berke [00:02:03]:

So I love how you said you're at this handoff between marketing and sales. If anybody here Seizis on LinkedIn. You're probably chuckling to yourself like, oh, the love hate relationship that marketing and sales have together and, really, who is this go between of what happens when sales turns things over to marketing. Is sales pointing the finger at marketing? Is marketing pointing the finger Sales, and you have identified this sweet spot. And so tell us a little bit about making that decision of going out on your own because a lot of people listening are also entrepreneurs, or they're in this space of how did he make that decision to leave a job, right, as a w two employee to go out on your own.

Mason Cosby [00:02:47]:

Yes. I mean, I I've been building scrappy ABM in a much smaller capacity for about 9 months. And I just had a couple of clients. I did decent work for those clients, and, you know, that was all I expected it to be. And then I launched a podcast called Scrappy ABM and started to talk through the ideas and the concepts. And I threw up kind of a 1 page website, which, At this moment, website is still a single page where you can book a call. And, when I made one post on LinkedIn that announced, I haven't heard of this podcast. I've got this website if you wanna book time.

Mason Cosby [00:03:24]:

I just expected a couple more clients to come in that I'd like potentially help. And in about a month and a half, ended up closing $300,000 in revenue. And what that showed to me is, okay, this is the right message at the right time. I really need to think True. Because even even in the concept of, like, what I had launched with Scrappy, I mean, there weren't clear packages. There wasn't clear pricing. I was just like, you can Work with me on something. So, honestly, a lot of these discovery calls were like, why did why did you book a call? Like, what are you doing here? Like, I I I have a it's a concept.

Mason Cosby [00:04:03]:

It's like a problem. And they're like, I know, but we need to solve the problem. And you talk about this this playbook that you've run before. Can you help us do that? And the playbooks kept coming back to, again, these concepts of activation plays. And the more I thought through, what are the core reasons that ABM fails, And what's what's the market doing, and where is there a gap in the market? I really found the gap is helping set up the right foundation, helping people do a crawl in the crawl, walk, run approach. Because, again, like, if you think about the ABM space, I don't know of another service provider that is dedicated to serving that crawl space, to building the right foundation, to helping someone take those first initial steps into actually building a sustainable program. So, again, it was really market feedback of I pitched out more of the problem as opposed to the solution Right. And said, like, this problem really hurts, and, like, here's a couple of ideas on how you can solve it.

Mason Cosby [00:04:58]:

And the market came through and said, I completely resonate with that and would like your help solving it. Yeah. So that's how I made the decision.

Celeste Berke [00:05:05]:

And I love how you're talking about problems over product. The problem came first. You didn't even know what the product was gonna be because you have this whole suite of experience and ways that you can help. And you and I talked prior as an entrepreneur, get shiny object syndrome as well. We see money dangling in front of Face, and we wanna grab it. And that takes us further away from staying honed in on. This is how I can help people, and these are the problems I solve. So We are all team problem centric approach here, product second, and it sounds like that is resonating with potential clients as well.

Celeste Berke [00:05:39]:

And I know having a little one, and you also have a very little one, this whole stage of We want, as parents, to get through the hard times. The sleepless nights and the crying and the colic and the teething, and, I mean, that's coming down the pipe for you. And to get to this place where our kids are grown up, they love how you are saying, I am helping teams with this foundation, this crawl approach, because everybody wants this ideal future state. But if we don't build it and we don't focus on the Skills and the Foundations. You're not gonna get there, but you're gonna spend a lot of money trying. So thank thank you so much for sharing that. And it's Funny because I am delivering a webinar later today. And we're constantly talking about what problems do you solve, what problems do you solve, and individuals don't know the problems that they solve.

Celeste Berke [00:06:31]:

They talk very, like, technical problem, like a broken process or tool. And when I was talking with Rachel, who's our general manager, she was saying, How are you going to teach someone how to do it? And it's that same concept that you have of this crawl approach of Someone can tell you, go crawl, go walk, go do this. But until you're saying, no. This is step 1, and this is step 2. This is how you do it. This is what it looks like. This is what it feels like. You're not going to build that solid foundation.

Celeste Berke [00:07:01]:

So I I love that you're in this place of knowing, and I think that leads right into the the question I love to ask guesses. From a scrappy marketer. What is your sales edge?

Mason Cosby [00:07:15]:

We talked about this a little bit, I mean, I'm just really bullish on this problem. And it's such a foundational problem that people resonate with that, like, if you've again, essentially, like, if you've tried ABM and it didn't work and then you hear any of the content that they put out, you're like, oh, yeah. I get it. Because, essentially, all of my products directly tie into research backed proven problems that people experience, and it's all the reasons ABM fails. So there's that component. And the other component is I think I truly am a market of 1 in the sense that I don't know of any other service providers that are dedicated and so bullish On no. This is just take, like, step 1. Again, most people, when they think about ABM, they're talking about the, Like, large scale, we've built this program that delivers 100 of 1,000,000 of dollars in pipeline, and I'm like, cool.

Mason Cosby [00:08:08]:

How do you source the first Deal. And I'm really bullish on just making sure that we actually think through not step 100, But, like, step 1, step 2, and step 3. And I'm very comfortable and very confident saying, I can help you nail the first 3 steps, And then that's where our engagement's likely going to end. And you're gonna get graduated to a larger agency that can do more of the run and the sprint, or You're going to be self sustaining on your own because, surprise, surprise, people are actually really intelligent once they've actually gotten something rolling and they're pretty intuitive. The greatest challenge for everybody when it comes to these kinds of programs is how do we essentially break our organization intentionally? Because ABM is organizational change. So how do we intentionally break our organization and then rebuild it right? Once you've rebuilt it right, you can typically just run from there, but it's the hard part of, like, I have to break the organization for a little bit.

Celeste Berke [00:09:10]:

Yeah.

Mason Cosby [00:09:10]:

So I'm just I think that's my sales edge. It's just, like, knowing the problems that I solve, solving those problems, And kind of being a market of 1 because I don't know to be all serving this space as a dedicated business.

Celeste Berke [00:09:24]:

Alright. So Love that you're staying in this lane and also this whole concept about change management. Companies hate change. Individuals hate change. It is so difficult. But when we see that there's a problem and we know that there's this huge chasm, if we don't do something, are we willing to stay in the state where we are, Orr Is the Problem Big Enough That We Attack It, Even If That Means That It Causes Some Change TO Our Organization. Something else that I want to talk about is this concept of these big myths that are out there. You know, we work with a lot of companies who will say, No.

Celeste Berke [00:10:03]:

I don't have a problem. Like, our win rates are 10%. Okay. Well, what were they last year? They were 15. And then we dive into, Alright. How much is in the pipeline? You know? Where is this coming from? Inbound, outbound. We really start to break it down, and teams Sometimes aren't willing to look outside of the discovery, the sales process, the sales pipeline. And this is where I think your services come in because sometimes it's broken, like, way deep down before Ford even gets to the sales team from a marketing level.

Celeste Berke [00:10:37]:

So what is something, a challenge that you hear, or a myth that you wanna bust?

Mason Cosby [00:10:41]:

For starters, 10 to 15% close rates on your pipeline. There's definitely a marketing or a product problem at that point because that means your pipeline isn't The right people. So, yeah, you probably actually have a marketing or a product problem unless your sellers are just completely in that. Right. As far as an actual myth to bust, again, I I think it comes back to just this core concept of, Like, if you are trying to build a true revenue organization and a true revenue program, A lot of what we've done in the past is list a bunch of MQLs. An SDR team can then just go prospect into those MQLs that have actually no Real intent, and then we'll convert those into pipeline at 1%. But, oh, by the way, The conversion of 1% to pipeline, what's the actual pipeline conversion on those deals? It's it's abysmal. So, Again, and especially in our current environment, I think we're just both marketing and sales organizations are becoming organizations of more.

Mason Cosby [00:11:48]:

And, again, we all know it's quality over quantity, but in the current environment, we're continuing to swing towards quantity. So, again, I'm just in the camp of, Like, the myth to bust is identify not an MQL model and an MQL score. That is they read 30 blogs. We should give them a call. But what are the tangible actions that somebody did that would indicate to us we should reach out to them? So, for example, are you prioritizing outreach to people that have viewed numerous product pages and the pricing page and then bounced off your website. Most organizations today with a basic HubSpot instance can get that information. So, again, that shouldn't be factored into the MQL model. That should be alerted to that contact owner almost instantaneously to say, somebody has viewed these pages.

Mason Cosby [00:12:39]:

They are in a buying research mode Likely. We can't guarantee it. But it's way more likely that they're buying research mode on your product if they've viewed those specific pages and they bounce off the schedule a call page Then they are reading your blog content. So, again, mapping who we pass over to sales to actual tangible actions and intent as opposed to They opened up enough of our email newsletters to say we should give them a call.

Celeste Berke [00:13:07]:

The more is more concept He's definitely not working in sales. I think everybody's been on high alert this week with what's happening with emails and and Outbound and what we're going to do. But taking that step back to look at what is going on in my organization, And am I willing as a CMO or a CRO, VP of sales, CEO, am I willing to build this, to take the time to look at the foundations and what's going on in order to seed it for future.

Mason Cosby [00:13:40]:

CMO, CRO, or CEO.

Celeste Berke [00:13:42]:

It's this change management piece of is an individual in an organization willing to go down the path of Change in order to set that foundation for future. So what if someone doesn't? What happens in an

Mason Cosby [00:13:56]:

If you go straight out of You don't have the appropriate foundation. 1 of 2 things will happen. 1, you'll you'll fail, and, I mean, that's pretty Pretty standard. You try something, it fails. And from there, you can either assess, again, oh, we didn't have the appropriate foundation in place. This is where it failed. You can do Mortem. And I actually don't think that's a bad thing because at that point, you're actually fixing specific gaps that are actual known problems.

Mason Cosby [00:14:22]:

So that may not be a bad thing in the long run. The other thing, though, is if you fail, you may throw the baby out with the bathwater and say, oh, this doesn't work at all. So, again, you may fail. I think the other thing that's worse is you have 1 successful program and campaign that was kind of the shot in the dark that happened to work. And now you've set an expectation of something that should be able to deliver consistently when reality, it wasn't a repeatable program in the 1st place. It was a very fortuitous shot in the dark that may have happened to land a large account, and now you keep trying to hit these results that were never going to be attainable again. And, again, at that point, it's the baby is with the bathwater's not gonna get thrown out because it works. Why isn't it working again? You're just gonna continue to actually run up against a wall, try to figure it out when in reality, you should have set the right foundation.

Celeste Berke [00:15:18]:

Foundation is everything. And definitely wanna close this out here. You share a lot of great content about what you're doing, problems in an organization, setting that Foundation. What are those indicators? What should someone be looking at? But you're also sharing this amazing journey about being a new dad and and building in public, which is so fun to watch as an entrepreneur. If someone wants to get ahold of you, What would be some leading indicators happening within their organization that if they listen to this, the light bulb moment would be, hey. I need to reach out to Mason in order to have a chat.

Mason Cosby [00:15:55]:

Yeah. So there are really 2 situations that make the most sense. 1, You serve a very niche specific targeted audience, and you are saying we need to be better at engaging this audience to get them into our pipeline. We should build an account based marketing program, but we don't know where to start. That's a great fit for me. The other is you've tried ABM, and it it didn't work Because of any number of reasons, which likely comes back to wrong strategy, wrong foundation. In that context, if you are bought in philosophically on the concept of But you need help strategically and tactically on the implementation, that's where our team can help. So those are really the core 2 areas in which we'll be able to help client the most.

Mason Cosby [00:16:37]:

And if you wanna get in contact, there's really 2 main places to reach me. LinkedIn, very active. Mason Cosby, not Crosby. If I were Crosby, I would probably be far richer and a little bit more handsome and Have a far more successful career in the NFL. The other place to reach me is scrappyabm.com. I have a calendar booking link so you can actually book time directly with me.

Celeste Berke [00:17:00]:

Awesome. Awesome. And I will say if you are also, going to Google and typing, what is ABM, maybe worth a conversation with Mason as well if if if you're wondering, like, what the heck is this, and what does it entail, and what am I missing out on as things continue to change? And I love how you stated it's not about running out and buying the latest in tech and building your tech stack, but really looking at the foundation of how do you propel your business forward, Make A Change. How do you set the teams up for success? And then you really coming in as this go between of sweet spot marketing and sales and playing together nicely in the sale in Sandbox, and now is no better time to start. Well, I appreciate you spending time with us today. I have learned so much. It is a continuous process in our businesses. So while we love to work with teams kind of like MQL through close, we really focus on Discovery and and sales skills and enabling teams to look at deals, but we don't talk about what happens before that.

Celeste Berke [00:17:59]:

And that's such a great marriage of of where you come in. So for Everybody out there listening, I hope that you've had some great takeaways from Mason. Mason, I look forward to staying connected with you on LinkedIn and seeing what big things come out in 2024. Thank you so much for sharing your time with us today.

Mason Cosby [00:18:15]:

Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me.