Ep 25: From Office Hopping to LinkedIn Stalking: How the Game Has Changed for Hospitality Sales with Caleb Rice

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Celeste Berke Knisely:Hello, hello. It's Celeste Berke Knisely on the Sales Edge Podcast. I am joined by Caleb Rice. We had an awesome opportunity to meet in person. We're both sitting here in Colorado, but a couple of weeks ago we met in person in San Diego and he was just such a breath of fresh air and hilarious to boot one some dollars as being like one of the most engaged people in the class and I thought he'd be a great person to have a little chat with.

What's changed in the industry as it relates to our buyers and sellers. Caleb, tell us a little bit about your background.

Caleb Rice:Thank you so much for doing this and having me on. But also first off, thank you so much for coming out to RBI and helping our team with our training. It was a very informative and very helpful. I know for myself, but also for the rest of the team every day. We have our team chats and everyone's bringing something else up about the training [00:01:00] that they learn and what they're using to source and prospect and all the fun things.

So thank, thank you for, for doing that. So yes, Caleb Rice I've been in the industry for a little over 16 years now from Oklahoma, moved out to Colorado for my first job right out of college. I started at the Broadmoor where I started in food and beverage, worked my way up into sales.

And most recently I left the Broadmoor at the end of January of this year as director of national sales. The insurance and incentive markets and then joined the Rancho Bernardo in team in San Diego, working fully remote, staying here in Colorado as director of national accounts for the Mid Atlantic, Northeast and the international markets.

Celeste Berke Knisely:And what we're talking about here is, how can you be in hospitality and selling a luxury property and you're not there at the [00:02:00] property? You are remote. That has been a huge change in the industry. I've been in the industry since.

I won't even date myself, but let's just say 20 years, we would never allow a salesperson to work remote. And nowadays you're actually seeing this happen. Tell us what that switch from on property to remote has been like for you.

Caleb Rice:Yeah, no, you know, it, it was interesting because in my mind previously being in an office setting. For a good 10 years every day of my life, literally 7 to 10 minutes south of my house. You're just in that bubble of, oh, this is, this is what's happening. This is how it is. This is what's going on.

Everybody else is doing it. Nobody else is working remote. And then as I travel and go to conferences, you know, just talking to industry. friends and [00:03:00] industry colleagues, let alone planners. And I'm just finding this overwhelming growth of, Oh, I work from home. Oh, I've worked from home for years. So then I'm thinking, am I the only one that's not working from home?

It's just weird, you know, and interestingly enough, once the pandemic came and went, now it's a thing of the past, people are still working from home. A lot of, a lot of trends and things that you see is like, Oh, everybody's coming back to the office. Are they really, because I'm working on some sales calls next week for New York and a whole company is fully remote and I'm like, okay, so then what, it's this New York address.

Oh, we still have the building, but nobody's there. So it's just this different perception of what used to be compared to the reality of what is now. I used to think like, Oh no, home is not my productive place. Work is my productive place. Well, now with the switch, I find that I [00:04:00] get more done here at home because it's quiet.

It's me and the dogs. Nobody's coming in my office 15 times within an hour. Like I can actually focus on what I'm supposed to be doing. So it is great, but it's, it's all a mindset. And it's also fun to work fun clothes and shorts and, you know, dress

Celeste Berke Knisely:Yeah, nobody knows, but I'm wearing like green, green shorts on her. I don't even match, but nobody knows. They can't see it. In the wintertime, I'm in sweat pants or maybe PJs, but what's interesting is kind of the shift and we're seeing it on the buyer side as well as the seller side where hospitality companies

have to, they have to, let me stress that, adapt. I like to say adapt or die, but it's true. Our old school laurels of how we've always done stuff like sales blitzes, riding the elevator, going to visit people, like. Times have changed. And when I worked with your team, I really opened up their eyes to this like digital shift where a [00:05:00] lot of sales and a lot of sales conversations happen on a digital channel, whether that's LinkedIn, whether that's the Facebook or instant message texting.

I mean, I, I came from the time and you did too, especially at like luxury, you do like YouTube. That's taboo to text somebody. And now we are texting with buyers colleagues, whomever. All the time. So this shift, let's say in meeting our buyers where they are, you mentioned before we hit record, like part of the problem with the industry is we need more business.

We need more visibility. We need more people to know who we are, but our buyers are no longer in the traditional places where they used to be. So I can't visit them with ease. How are you managing that transition from. not being able to go to a company and have a planned visit, but now having to have these conversations online and [00:06:00] still drive the outcomes.

How have you managed that knowing that you were in the thick of like, we only meet in person before to now we'll meet over teams or zoom wherever you are. Yeah. Hmm.

Caleb Rice:You know, and, and I think you, you made a good point just then you have to meet people where they're at. And that's on a whole multiple levels, whether it be physically, whether it be, hey, I am stressed to the hilt and I cannot meet with you until X day. Okay, that's something as well. So. seeing a need, feeling a need, hearing a need, but then also coming at it with a solution as well.

And not just one, but kind of backup solutions. Okay. If this one doesn't work, what are we going to backfill it with? What, whether that's finding your clients, Hey, we're both going to the same conference. I noticed on your professional Facebook LinkedIn wall that you're going to be attending [00:07:00] XYZ conference.

I myself will be attending XYZ conference. I would love to buy you a coffee. Let me know what your availability is. Here's my cell phone number, you know, and then pop it into a text message, which again is very odd to be texting a client unless a client is a friend. It just seems weird. Like we need to be on the phone.

We need to be emailing. What's this texting? What are we kids? But no, it's just meeting the client where they are. You find that, Hey. I work fully remote. Okay. Well, what city are you in? I'm in Philadelphia. Perfect. Well, this particular trip, I'm going somewhere other than Philadelphia, but I've now made a note in my system and changed your address that says Philadelphia.

So whenever I pull in a Philadelphia, Pennsylvania list, next time I find myself that direction, it'll populate and I can go see that client where she's at.

Celeste Berke Knisely:Yeah, and that's like, [00:08:00] that's such a good nuance, right? For salespeople. We can assume somebody is tied to their company, wherever their company headquarters is. That's just the building that has the sign on it. I think that's a great tip for sellers is really finding out from your buyers, especially if you're, Looking at bigger ticket items like a luxury experience, right?

A conference, a convention, an annual meeting, and you want to meet somebody in person because it is a big deal to them to plan an event. They're putting their personal brand on the line. They want to ensure that you can take care of them, that it. comes out successful, that you have experience in this and often those face to face, if you don't know where that person resides, you can't coincide it.

And I think a lot of people, salespeople sleep on that. They have no clue where buyers are these days and you can't take it for base value that where their company is, they're located there anymore.

Caleb Rice:Well, you know, and I think it's human nature that we thrive [00:09:00] on interpersonal like connections, right? And not having those face to face connections. Kind of steers us in a completely different direction. And so I also find on the same hand that a lot of planners, because they have a particular job that they are trying to successfully do, a lot of them are very analytical in the way that they do and think and everything.

And some people just might not want to talk face to face or see you or have you come see them. They only want to talk over email. They only want to talk over a phone. And then they come, they have an amazing, successful program and you either never hear from them again because they've moved on or you revoke them for a future program, but you also have to somewhat read in between those digital lines of finding that comfort zone with those planners because you can be hot to try and doing what you're supposed to [00:10:00] be doing and your leadership's telling you to get out there.

But you also have to be the realist of what's actually happening in your

Celeste Berke Knisely:Yes, and you touched on a good point there. We often talk from a gap selling lens about like sales is really helping. It's helping someone achieve, you know, where they are right now and their desired outcome. Should they change? Should they invest with you? Like why change going through this series of like a change management process?

And you hit the nail on the head of if you don't understand your buyer and especially in hospitality, which is like. A deluge of RFPs that come your way. And it's, it can be transactional, whereas like, okay, I want to respond because we all know time to respond to that RFP could make or break the decision.

But if we're not getting to know our buyer and those small nuances, like you just said, how do they prefer to be communicated with, I would bet like you're 16 years of [00:11:00] experience, like you have honed that And there are so many sellers out there that are probably like, Oh, I never even thought to ask about that.

But like what an awesome way to honor somebody who may be newer to planning. And it's like, dude, don't call me. Please don't call me. Don't even email me. Like my emails are overloaded. Whereas a more seasoned planner may want to like. Spend some time on the phone. They want to talk through things. But if you didn't ask that question, you wouldn't know how they want to be communicated with.

Caleb Rice:You know, it kind of reminds me, remember the colored bands you would wear whenever you would go to events during or right after the pandemic of people's comfort levels of interaction. Red means stay away, go back to your room. And it's just like, no red means you should have stayed home. Yellow was moderate.

Like, you know, we can give those fist bumps and those elbow tags and then greens are like, what's pandemic let's give a hug. You know, it's like [00:12:00] taking those colored bands and then just having to figure out what those color codes are from any little subtle hint you can pull from anywhere.

Celeste Berke Knisely:Yeah, totally. And, and really reading that buyer behavior, which we talked to your team about, it is getting so competitive out there, especially in the luxury market where individuals and companies are spending a lot of money more so for the experience, right? The unique factor, the amazing food and beverage, but as a seller, You have to show up and, and have those attributes as well.

And I think being a detective, picking up those key pieces of this person posted this, they like this online, they follow these people, like it helps you with those tiny little nuances as far as an amenity in the room or bringing up a conversation. And I would say. A lot of sellers miss that. How do you make sure?

In the class you were like, Hey, I'm, pretty savvy on the LinkedIn, [00:13:00] right? And I was like, all right, this guy's going to be a challenge, but even you walked away with like some nuances and then how to put things in chat, GPT, like all of these different tech tools that 16 years ago, if you told us we would have been doing, we're like, what? We're not doing that. We're not, we're still typing a

Caleb Rice:I, I still think back to like the golden rule, like doing others as you want to be had done to you. Like, How do I want to be communicated to? How do I want to be talked to? How do I want to be treated? Why wouldn't I want to then do the same to somebody else? And so whenever you're trying to gather all of this information as much as you can, as quick as you can, because you're right, a lot of times it's whoever's the first proposal in is the one that wins, you know, because it shows like you're right there.

You're so focused. But at the end of the day, you still have to make sure and balance it out that you're not [00:14:00] talking at a client or a potential client, you're talking to them. You know, it's, it's the whole thing of like, I hear you, but am I listening to you? You know, and so whenever I'm doing these searches and trying to find as much information as I possibly can, not only on a particular person that is the individual, but also on the company as a whole, whether it be using chat, GPT or LinkedIn or Nolan, you know, I have thousands.

Three great opportunities of sourcing agents right here at my fingertips and going down those rabbit trails. It's just, it's crazy how much information you can deduce just by a few little clicks because everything is on the internet, whether you want it to be or not, even home addresses. You know, I'm living in El Paso County, Colorado.

I'm always like, I wonder how much that house is. Well, let's go [00:15:00] to the county assessor website and then I find a name and I'm like, oh, I know this. That's where they live. Like everything is on the internet. Anybody can find anybody, but it's just taking the time and focusing in and honing in on what your need is and getting to that

Celeste Berke Knisely:Yeah, and it's about, you know, being a problem solver. And I love how you said like utilizing these digital assets as assists. I like to be like, it's the best unpaid assistant I have, right? When I really want to find out more information it's something I don't know because especially if you're looking at A board or an organization.

They all have desired outcomes money. They're trying to raise things are trying to accomplish and the Internet can tell you a lot about that. So you can weave that in when you're having a conversation and you. Ultimately, like a skyrocket, your own credibility as a seller versus what many of us were taught early on in the sales days, which was a form of [00:16:00] bant.

Like, Hey, what's your budget? I mean, we all know, you know, like I got a budget. But

Caleb Rice:like. You have your list of questions that you have to cover and it's just like, let's get outside of the box,

Celeste Berke Knisely:we all know budgets are broken. People often spend more than they thought because they're not educated or they just don't know. They don't even know what they're looking for. We have to help guide them.

Caleb Rice:or their budget is from 2015 and they still think that the world operates from nine years ago, like it,

Celeste Berke Knisely:Yes, things, things have changed. So looking at this through a lens of like a seller, what has been the biggest change over the past 16 years that you've seen as it relates to Putting yourself out there to build a network so that people talk about you when, when you're not in the room. [00:17:00] What has that shift been from when you first entered the industry till now?

Caleb Rice:So whenever I first rolled into sales in my first director role for the insurance and incentive markets, you know, the, the insurance world, the financial world, it, it's been said many times, so I'm not speaking out of turn. It's a very clicky industry. And if you're not in, you're not in, and that's just how, how it goes.

That's just kind of who they are. That's who they've always been. Hopefully one day that's not who they will be. But having to like find my way to navigate inside of that was probably the most difficult. I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm, I'm a director of national sales. Look at this new title, mom. And then like, okay, I have all this support around me.

And now what are you do? [00:18:00] I can't even get a return phone call because they don't know me. And so I had to then find ways around that. And it's simply boiled down to just showing up. I would go to conferences. I would go to events. We would be in round table discussions. Questions would be asked. I would raise my hand and give an answer because the more that you can be seen and heard, the more people remember you.

Oh, it's that guy. I didn't like his answer, but it's that guy. You know what I mean? And so, regardless of what you're saying, People are seeing you. People are hearing you. And over time, nothing became something. So, you just have, you have to give it time. But, at the end of the day, be yourself. You can't, you can't force.

You can't force something that's not natural. You know, a lot of salespeople are good at what they do because it just comes [00:19:00] naturally to them. Talking to strangers, naturally to them. For my two and a half year old, I don't want that to come naturally to him. Me, as a not two and a half year old who's in sales, I want that to come naturally, you know?

And so, you just have to find your path and navigate down that path. But at the end of the day, you just be yourself, be yourself because it shows your genuine self of who you are and that People want to work with real, genuine people, not robot sales people that have a bullet point of lists of questions that they're just randomly spark, Oh, we're going to change up the order today.

Like no, nobody wants to work with a robot. They want to work with genuine,

Celeste Berke Knisely:Death to the qualification checklist that we all came up with. And, and I think that's what really drew me to you is I find myself an outlier too of, I all of a [00:20:00] sudden, you know, Not aware of everybody else that's in the room. And I'm like, I will raise my hand five times because I have a question. And I realized other people probably were thinking it too, or it sparks some conversation.

And I am totally there with you as of, you know, 15, 16 years ago, you'd go to an event and you'd say like, gosh, some, everybody knows that person. And when you're just starting out, it can feel uncomfortable to put yourself out there, to build your personal brand and. And you're out there doing that, right?

And it was very apparent of like how genuine and authentic you are. And as a result, people speak your name when you're not there and refer you. You got this new job because of someone you knew that you worked with. It is about creating those connections that are lasting, that aren't transactional. And that's what our sellers look for as well.

Is this person trying to sell me something or are they actually trying to help me?[00:21:00]

Caleb Rice:No, absolutely. Are you in it for the hard sell the soft sell? You know, at the end of the day, I'm in it for the cell. But if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. You know, you're you're busy. Planners are busy. I'm busy. We're all busy in today's world with everything that's going on that. Hey, I can take a no.

But just tell me the no, you know what I mean? Don't skirt around, lead me on for months on end without, without any opportunity from the get go that it was even happening. But because you feel bad and don't want to be honest because you don't want to let me down, you now string me along ultimately to let me down.

I'm a grown man. Give me your honest feedback. And there's a fly in

Celeste Berke Knisely:think from, you know, having little ones in our house, we realize they will tell you the honest truth and you just take it. My [00:22:00] daughter's latest one is telling me how big my butt is and I'm like, all right, I guess that is the truth through a five year old's eyes. So it's those, we often realize adults just had the vulnerability in the mouth of a small toddler.

I'm right there with you. Like it. Because we aren't attached to the outcome, it doesn't really hurt our feelings. All right, so as we get ready to close and wrap this up, I always ask guests two questions. One is, what is the myth in sales that you would like to go away, that you'd like to bust, you've heard it for 16 years, and you would like it to be done?

Caleb Rice:Oh, the, okay. This is a good point. Contracting. So there are so many companies out there, and I get it. I work for a company as well that we're all trying our best to protect our asset, which is our own individual company. [00:23:00] Whenever an RFP comes through, a beautiful proposal is sent by yours truly. They come back with more buying questions.

We play this tennis match back and forth, back and forth. Okay, I think we want to go to contract. Here's 13 pages of contract language that I need to be added to this, your hotel standard contract. And I'm late. 13 pages is double the size of my standard contract. It's pointless. And the majority of all of that language is already in my standard contract.

So instead of just going at it from the get go of saying, Oh no, if you don't use this language, we can't move forward with you, but have a conversation.

Celeste Berke Knisely:Yeah, why is that important to you that we use your contract like help me understand[00:24:00]

Caleb Rice:Formation is already in my contract. Let's, will you just review it first? So I would say,

Celeste Berke Knisely:you read it by chance?

Caleb Rice:yeah, yeah. Or again, are you just going down your bullet point list of crossing

Celeste Berke Knisely:Oh, I love that checklist can go both ways. We got to stop the both ways checklist from a buyer and

Caleb Rice:absolutely. Site side story real fast. I had a third party. A couple of years ago, negotiating a contract for a client. I'm pushing through, I'm pushing through, I'm pushing through. They're coming back, not agreeable, not agreeable, not agreeable, not agreeable. And I don't know what made me think of this because I'm, in my mind, the third party is working on behalf of the client, even though they're getting paid by me a commission.

So technically aren't they working for me anyway pushing through, [00:25:00] pushing through, pushing through. And finally, I just said, well, what does the client think about, because it was one specific clause, what does the client say about this? Well, they haven't even reviewed the contract yet, and we had been going at it for a good three weeks.

And I'm like, what, what do you mean they haven't reviewed the contract yet? Oh, well, as their representative third party, we do all of it and then present them with perfectly beautifully bow tied contract that says, just put your signature on here. We've done all the hard work so you can retain us for all the future years.

And so it's just like. Absolutely not. I am done talking about this until we get the client on the line. I said, let's call him. Let's get the client on the line because I'm pretty sure we're right where we need to be. And you're working now against the opportunity instead of helping [00:26:00] for the opportunity.

So it's just like, at the end of the day, if you could actually get to the client, I get it. Third parties. Thank you so much for bringing us the business. We wouldn't be where we are today without third party help. So we're very appreciative of that. Thank you for the assist. Now let me talk to the client and get us across the finish line.

Celeste Berke Knisely:We could go on that's a whole nother episode just in itself. All right last question is you are you're a unique individual What Is your sales edge, like what makes you unique as a seller?

Caleb Rice:Well, I think I already, I think I already hit on it and it's just being genuinely me at the end of the day. It's not this used car salesman. Let you want some snake oil today. I have it in 15 different colors and fragrances at the end of the day. You get me, [00:27:00] you know, and I just happen to be a smiling goofy face of a beautiful luxury resort in sunny San Diego.

So yeah, I'm unique. I'm unique to

Celeste Berke Knisely:Yeah, totally. And, and I loved the time with the team. I will echo, I think, you know, the majority of the team really. You know, dynamic personalities. You have people that have been not the majority like everybody is that is an individual, but there are a handful that really stuck out. I can see how you all gel and then going to the property.

I was like, oh, hello. This is where I want to come. It felt like I was in the middle of, like, a. Like, an oasis where I could meander and listen to the water, but also look at the golf course. And there were trees, like it, it, I felt calm. And that was very different from many experiences of when you go to a conference and you're sitting in a cold conference room and it's stark, people are talking at [00:28:00] you.

So I think what you guys have there is truly special. And I'm Here cheering you on, that you're able to work remote, not have to uproot your family that you worked so hard to build over these past couple of years and you were able to find a home and doing it remotely. Like who knew that that was the thing.

Caleb Rice:know it's like the best of both worlds and I get to travel to San Diego as often as I need to, let alone want to. So life is actually really good.

Celeste Berke Knisely:definitely. So hospitality. This is a testament to when we start to think outside the box and we have issues with talent, that once we stop putting people in that box and we look elsewhere, you can Get to the same desired results by thinking differently and Caleb is I think you're a couple of people before you worked remote and now your whole team is partially remote or or their hybrid, which [00:29:00] again is completely unheard of in this industry, but just goes to show that when you take care of employees and you look at them holistically, it can change the culture and the working environment.

Caleb Rice:I couldn't agree more.

Celeste Berke Knisely:I appreciate your time. It's, it's a pleasure. I'm looking forward to hearing about, about your travels. I know it's tough kneeling people down in big cities, but this is a PSA out there. If you are an event planner or you book meetings or large gatherings or events, and someone hits you up to wine and dine you, take them up on it.

Cause usually it's a great experience. You meet some amazing people along the way and those people are connected to other people just like Caleb. So appreciate your time here. And, and for those who aren't connected to Caleb and want to continue to follow your story, your advocacy for parental rights in the workplace and raising a child in today's day and age, [00:30:00] follow him on, on LinkedIn.

Caleb Rice:Thanks, Celeste.